This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. I have heard and read that all Buddhas are sitting at the center of all living beings. I've also heard that all Buddhas are sitting in the center of fierce flames.

[01:00]

Many Buddhist statues are surrounded by fierce flames. Paintings of Buddhas are also surrounded by fierce flames. This aura of flames is called in Japanese komyo, which means radiant brightness. Buddhas sit in the middle of a radiant brightness, which is the flames of the suffering of all beings. That's where they sit. The bodhisattvas, those who are on the path to becoming Buddhas, also sit. at the center, at such a center.

[02:15]

And the Zen ancestors, the Zen tradition, the ancestors of the tradition also live and sit at the center of all beings. I propose that to you and to myself. And I think about that Think about what I just said to you. All day long. Now, I also think that I'm sitting at the center of all beings. And I think that you're sitting at the center of all beings. I think that all beings are sitting right now with me and with you.

[03:40]

Further, it is said that these Buddhas who are sitting at the center of all beings are turning the wheel of the Dharma, turning the wheel of the truth at the center of all beings. So I'm saying that the Buddhas are sitting at the center and now I say further sitting there they are including all beings. They include all beings. And they are included in all beings. And the way that they include all beings and the way they are included in all beings that

[04:51]

mutual inclusion, that resonance is the turning of the wheel of the Dharma. I think there's a statue on the other side of the altar that I'm looking at. Is there? And it's a statue which is sometimes called Listening to the Cries of the World. That's a statue of an enlightening being who lives at the center of all beings, like you and I,

[05:54]

and whose name is her job description. Her job is to listen to the calls, the cries of all the beings that surround her. To listen to the cries, to listen to the calls of all beings that she includes. On this side, Buddha's right, there's a statue of the person, of the being we call the founder of the Zen tradition, Bodhidharma. So that Zen ancestor, the founder of Zen in China, I imagine him to be this enlightening being who's listening to the cries of the world.

[07:07]

I think that the ancestors of the Zen tradition are beings who are listening to the cries of the world. They're practicing the Buddha way sitting at the center of all beings, listening to all beings, observing all beings from their seat, from their true position at the center of all beings, observing all beings with eyes of compassion, and observing with ears of compassion, and thinking with minds of compassion. and so on.

[08:14]

And touching with skin of compassion. Smelling with noses of compassion. Tasting with tongue of compassion. This is Zen meditation. And all beings are calling us to listen to them and to observe them in this way. Even beings who say, I don't want you to listen to me want us to listen to them when they say that. Even beings who say, don't look at me are calling us for compassion. It might be rude, so I won't say that you are calling for compassion.

[09:21]

But I am calling for compassion. Everything about me is calling for compassion. My pain is calling for compassion. Any confusion I feel is calling for compassion any opinion I have of myself or others is calling for compassion and someone said to me just recently it's just too much I can't listen to all the cries it's just too much for me to observe all beings with eyes of compassion And I said, that statement that is too much is calling for compassion. People say how hard it is to open to all beings.

[10:31]

But that statement is another call that's asking us, that's calling upon us to listen to it. Whatever you say, whatever you do, whatever I think, whatever I feel, is calling for compassion not exactly from me but I'm there and I hear it and I hear it and I've been called to hear it that's my actual nature is that I'm being called for compassion and I'm calling for compassion And this teaching is for all beings whose original nature is pure. My original nature is pure. What is my original nature?

[11:34]

That I'm calling for all beings, and all beings are calling for me. That I'm including all beings, and I'm included in all beings that's my original nature and that original nature is pure and this original pure nature which is the way I include everyone and everyone I include everyone, and I'm included in everyone, that original pure nature also is associated with some, you might say, impurity. Some attachment. Some attachment to perhaps...

[12:40]

The idea that I include some people but not all. Or that I'm included in some people but not all. Not just the idea but attaching to that idea. And that attachment... to the idea that I am not sitting at the center of all beings, pervading and being pervaded, it seems to, it's calling for compassion. And before it gets the compassion it's calling for, it seems to interfere with realizing this original nature. And also with realizing that this original nature is associated with this attachment if someone could learn to listen wholeheartedly and

[14:14]

You might add in to that consistently, uninterruptedly, even before one has given up all attachment. If one is listening to the cries of those attachments wholeheartedly, those attachments open up, open up, drop away, get out of the way, of this original pure nature, which everybody has, this original pure nature. But we also all have some clinging, some attachment associated with it. But even without getting rid of this attachment, if we wholeheartedly listen to the cries of the attachment,

[15:16]

the attachment drops out of the way and opens unto the Dharma, to the truth of our original nature. So there can be awakening and realization of our original nature while we still have some attachment. Which again, we have it, and it opens onto the Dharma it's a door it goes from being an obstruction to a door to an opening without moving it suppressing it elevating it just by completely wholeheartedly observing it and letting it completely be itself we hear the true Dharma in the middle of it.

[16:18]

The phrase, I hear you, sometimes arises in my consciousness. But I almost never say it out loud. I actually don't say out loud very often, I hear you. But what I'm happy to say is, I'm listening to you. I don't know if I hear myself but I'm listening to myself and I'm also listening for the true Dharma by listening not for something other than the cries of the world I'm listening for the true Dharma while or as listening to the cries of all beings, which again means listening to all the cries in my own body and mind and what seems to be the cries of other bodies and minds.

[18:14]

I think someone said to me today that they thought we sometimes call our meditation practice just sitting. And the person said, one person said, that description of our practice seems somewhat disembodied. And I said, well, this just sitting includes that you're listening to the bodies, to the cries of all beings, and you're observing the bodies of all beings, including observing your own body with compassion. So again, I'm saying Zen meditation is this engagement with all beings. It's an engagement with all beings. including yourself, including all the elements of your own experience.

[19:37]

We also have the expression, settle the self on the self, or study the self. So now tonight I'm saying, in order to fully study yourself, you need to listen to yourself. and you need to listen to others. You can't fully be yourself without listening to others. And you can't listen fully to others without listening to yourself. I'm saying that. Maybe one more thing I'll say is that fortunately we do have the opportunity to practice this way because everybody is offering themselves to us to be observed. We have no shortage of beings who are offering themselves for us to observe.

[20:53]

Everybody is giving themselves to us for that purpose. And we are giving ourselves. to ourselves and others for that purpose. So in that sense, if you excuse the expression, a lot of people don't like me saying this, but excuse me for saying we have job security. Now that the unemployment rate has dropped, maybe I can say that, that this kind of practice I could say nobody can take it away from us, but I would say it the other way around. Everybody's giving it to us. Everybody's giving us this job. Everybody's offering themselves to us for compassion. Nobody's not. Everybody is doing that. Thank you, everybody. that's enough is there anything you want to tell me before I go thank you for listening I was calling you

[22:21]

I am listening, but I'm not saying I hear you. But I am listening to you. Well, like I might say to you, I hear you, and you might say, no, you don't. Right? And in this situation, we say the customer is always right. So you're calling to me. You might actually feel like you're calling to me. And I might say, I hear you. And you might feel like, no, you don't. and I might listen to that and I wouldn't say necessarily I hear you say no you don't but you know I did think you said no you don't but people do often feel like we don't hear them right but they still might feel like we're listening but not hearing like for example people might be talking to us and we're listening but not hearing them

[23:45]

So we start talking before they finish their sentence. Because we think we heard them, and we know what they're trying to say. So we tell them what they're trying to say. In a way, that's not really hearing them. Does that make sense? No? Somebody's talking to me, and I think I hear them before they finish talking. and actually they're saying a sentence to me, and they're also saying, would you please let me finish the sentence? Even though they don't say, would you please let me finish the sentence, they actually, if I was really hearing them, I would know that they're actually not done talking to me. So I wouldn't cut them off. I think... I would say that when I really wholeheartedly listen to you, I hear the Dharma.

[24:53]

Yes? Would you say it louder, please? If I feel that listening is not enough, if I have that thought or that feeling, I'm saying that that thought or that feeling is calling for compassion. Again, the description of this bodhisattva... the one who listens to the cries of the world, says, by observing all living beings with the eyes of compassion, an ocean of blessing beyond measure comes together. It doesn't say an ocean of blessing that's enough. It's just an ocean of blessing. But the ocean of blessing doesn't have these signs in it saying this is enough blessing.

[26:09]

If anybody thinks when we have this ocean of blessing that it's enough, that's another cry. So to think that it's enough is a cry, to think that it's not enough is a cry. These statements are not wisdom, they're human talk. And to think that it is enough, or to think that it isn't enough, are just more things to listen to. And then to say, it's true that it's not enough, or it's true that it is enough, those are also calls. It's a matter of generating blessing rather than getting into judging whether human statements are true or false. Now, there is a time for that and the time for that is when the blessings give rise to wisdom and then wisdom can see things like if something more needs to be said or done.

[27:13]

When the listening is wholehearted the Dharma is revealed and in that wisdom if something needs to be done that's not just listening like for example if a call needs to be issued then the call will spontaneously come so it's not just listening it's also calling but to say that yeah to say that listening isn't enough overlooks the fact that when there's listening there's calling so it's not so much that listening is enough or isn't it's just that listening isn't the whole story because the listening is a response to calling so if you said to me when there's listening is that the whole story I would say no listening is not the whole story

[28:15]

The whole story is more like calls and listening are arising together. So when I talk about the listening, in a sense, I'm talking about half of the relationship. But it's not that half is not enough. It's just half is not mentioning that the listening is in response to a call. And you could say, is the call enough? Well, the same with the call. It's not just calling for help. Is that enough? That's just half the story. When you call, there's listening. And when you're listening, there's a call. So rather than either side being enough, it's that both sides are always there, always there. What do you think of that? Oh, really? Thank you. Yes. since the time that you asked that question there has been uninterrupted listening.

[29:40]

And there was a voice which said listen. And then it said listen again. So I think that the listening can become uninterrupted by practice of listening. I would say our true nature is that we are listening. and calling and so by practicing listening we can learn how the listening is it's not so much I'm saying it's not so much that by practicing listening my listening is uninterrupted but by my listening being more and more wholehearted I realize that the listening is uninterrupted is uninterrupted practice is uninterrupted and by practicing more and more heartedly we wake up to the uninterrupted listening the unthinkable unstoppable inconceivable uninterrupted Dharma if that's the situation

[31:05]

And by practicing more and more, we open to that uninterrupted. It's not like I'm going to make my listening uninterrupted. It's more like I'm going to listen as wholeheartedly as I can, and everybody's going to call me to listen more wholeheartedly. And in the wholeheartedness, we will wake up together to our uninterrupted, original, pure nature, which is that we're constantly listening to each other and calling to each other. How do you practice listening? I don't know how that happened, but I was listening to that. I don't know who said it. Who said it? Are you asking another question? Wow. Yeah, well, That's how I did it. Did you see me do it? That's how I practiced listening.

[32:09]

When you said that, or whoever said that, there was listening. But not just by me. Did somebody else listen to that? Did almost everybody here listen to that? That's also how I practiced listening. Everybody's listening is included in my listening and mine and theirs. but I don't know how we did that. I don't know how you all listened to her. How did you do that? How did you have all us listen to her? I'm not operating everybody in this room, but everybody was listening to you. That's the listening. It's not just mine. What can we listen to if we don't agree with what's literally being said?

[33:13]

Well, maybe you listened to what was literally said, and then there was a thought in your mind, I don't agree. Did you hear that one? So I would listen to I don't agree. And also, if I was somebody who thought I don't agree, then this practice would say, listen to that. And you might also say, I don't agree out loud, so somebody else could listen to you. Like maybe you could say it to me, and I could show you that what I did with your, I don't agree with that, is I listened to it. And if I didn't, then you could call to me and say, you didn't listen to me. And then maybe I could listen to that. And then you could see maybe whether you like this listening business. You could see, as we got into more and more calling each other and listening to each other, you maybe would wake up to your original nature, which is pure.

[34:13]

Yes? When we observe our attachments and the Dharma is revealed, what's going on with the self? the self is being liberated from all affliction. What comes before that is the self is afflicted. Self is afflicted, and these afflictions are calling out for compassion. And when there's wholehearted listening to all these calls that are buzzing around the self, the Dharma is revealed. And the self is free of all those afflictions without getting rid of them because they were the doors through which the Dharma was revealed. So you want to know before that? Yeah, I'm kind of after the obstruction. The obstruction?

[35:18]

I'm saying all obstructions are calling. All obstructions are singing. Please listen to me with compassion. That's what they're there for, is to invite the compassion which will then illuminate that our nature and liberate them with everything else. You're welcome. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma Talks are offered free of charge and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma.

[36:18]

For more information, visit sfcc.org and click Giving.

[36:26]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_94.47