This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good morning, everybody. Okay, so we've got some empty seats in front, and we've got people sitting far, far away. So please feel free to come forward and pass the empty cushions to the back. That way if other people come, come closer. I really won't bite, okay? And if we want to, it'll help the people in the back who are sitting in the pews to actually see. Okay? Is that good? Is everyone comfortable? Okay. Ed's cushions can stay. It'll remind me. Okay. that the Abbots and some others are away this weekend at a – what is it?

[01:08]

Oh, at the No Race. That's right, the No Race, which is a wonderful event in which board members and some other people – the population of which changes every year – come together at Tassajara to do a no race, which means that it doesn't matter who wins, up the hill to a high point on the road. And so people run and there are actually people who come in first and then there's those of us who walk or take bikes or cars or whatever. And it's just a wonderful time. And we've been doing this since the 1970s. And why I mention it is because it's only one of many events in which the Sangha gets together in a variety of ways throughout the year.

[02:14]

And it really is kind of getting together and sharing our lives, sharing space and sharing... resources, insights, and harmonious speech. It's really through those practices that we become a Sangha. So I do want to say hello to everyone who's sitting here in the Buddha Hall, but also the people who are sitting in the dining room, and also the people who are sitting at home watching or listening to this lecture online. And those of us who are here can actually pick up and read their chats at the end of the talk and understand that Sangha happens in many ways. End of spiel. Today I want to talk about speech and kind, inclusive, and noble speech. And this is the theme of the practice period that central abbess Linda Ruth Cutts

[03:19]

is leading right now at 300 Page Street and online. And I feel very honored, David, that you invited me to give one of these talks. Because right speech is something that I've been thinking about and trying to practice for a very long time. So when I first started practicing, I had no idea that I was going to be practicing. Something happened that changed my mind and my life. And I found myself researching, you know, who is it who teaches this and speaks about it? It was Zen Buddhists and I was horrified. I mean, I thought, oh no. Because I was kind of a little Miss Taipei. And my plan had nothing to do with actually... practicing or examining my life. I just really was not that interested in a kind of a long, slow haul towards awakening.

[04:27]

I just was not interested. And instead, I wanted to somehow short circuit the suffering or have one fantastic experience that would just end the whole painful mess of intergenerational issues and being a child of Holocaust survivors and refugees and having the whole immigrant thing go on and having to struggle to make my way in the world. I thought there would be one moment when I'd have an insight and that would be done. But no. Actually, it is... gradual practice that makes the sudden insight come to life for ourselves and with others. And that's why I want to speak about the practice of noble or right speech as love or as an expression of love.

[05:30]

So if someone would give me a five-minute warning at about 11 o'clock, that would be great. So Benjamin, could you... Oh, David could, okay, so just, no thank you, just stop me at the right time. Oh, stop, okay, thank you. Okay, so, the point is, I will give you the talk after which I can stop, it will take about 20 seconds. So the point is that we express not just right speech, but love. When we align with the teachings every time we speak at home or at work, well, I should say every time we communicate at home or at work or at school or wherever we are, whether it is in silence to ourselves or in actions or words to the other.

[06:36]

So... Martin Buber taught I and Thou. And we teach, in Zen practice, we teach the self and the world, or I and it, or I and you. And just to prime the pump, I'd like to read a little section from my ordination brother, Gil Fronstall's translation of the Dhammapada. If you don't know Gil, please check out his lectures on Audio Dharma or on San Francisco Zen Center's websites. He gives a very clear understanding of the teaching. This is his translation of one of the Buddha's earliest teachings. And this is Dhammapada Chapter 8 at the very beginning of the chapter. Better than a thousand meaningless statements is one meaningful word, which having been heard brings peace.

[07:41]

Better than a thousand meaningless verses is one meaningful line of verse, which having been heard brings peace. Better than reciting a hundred meaningless verses is one line of Dharma, which having been heard brings peace. brings peace. Greater in combat than a person who conquers a thousand times a thousand people is the person who conquers herself. Okay? So this is important because better than a thousand statements is one word that brings peace. Better than a thousand verses is one line that brings peace. Greater in combat and skill than someone who conquers a million people is one person who conquers him or herself. So in speech, this means as Abbas Linda said in her class, and this is a different way of hearing it.

[08:58]

Is it necessary? Is it kind? Is it helpful? Is it true? Is it timely? Okay, so this formulation was given by Yvonne Rand when she was studying this about 30 years ago in that particular iteration. She and I were speaking and she summarized the one way that the sutras presented right speech as Is it necessary? Is it kind? Is it helpful? Is it true? And is it timely? And I thought, uh-oh. Oh no. You know, when I speak, it might not be necessary, or the rest. And then I thought, oh, I know, I'm going to have to put some sort of interruption to my speech so that I'll know when I'm speaking and I'll have a moment to ask myself those questions.

[10:10]

So I found a very smooth stone and I washed it off and sanitized it. Then I put it in my mouth for six weeks and every time I spoke it would interrupt what I was saying because I was in danger of swallowing it. if I spoke mindlessly, and then I got the chance to ask myself those questions. And then in the last, you know, 30 or so years, I've also found another several ways that the Buddha talks about right speech in the Dharma. So, That necessary, kind, helpful, true, and timely is wonderful as a filter for speech, but also for action. It doesn't work so well for thoughts, because by the time you think that second thought, is it necessary, that thought has already happened. But sometimes you can catch yourself between thinking and speaking, or between thinking and doing.

[11:17]

to apply those filters, especially if you have some practice that interrupts you or slows you down. But the Buddha also taught general teachings about samavata, right speech. And so there's two other formulations that I'll bring up, but you're going to have to catch them because I'm not going to give a little list of them. I'm going to try to talk about them through examples that have come to me from people with whom I was speaking about the practice. So there are four main teachings or practices in right speech in the second formulation. And then there's answers to specific obstacles, which we call the precepts, in yet a third formulation.

[12:20]

So you might hear me talking about the right speech for practices, or you might hear me talking about the precepts. And those are also other ways that we talk about right speech, besides the filters for future action. So I'd just like to give a few real-life examples and think about how we would apply right speech to express our basic desire to be kind or to have a loving life. And these come from conversations that various Sangha members and I have had over the last week or two as I was preparing for this talk. And I've chosen these particular examples because they... illuminate different aspects of right speech. So one person was talking about righteous anger.

[13:21]

Righteous anger is a situation in which we think we're practicing right speech, but we might actually practice something, be practicing something else. So that's one situation. I'll just go over some of these examples. How do you practice with right speech when people want to fight? For example, sometimes people think that you are colluding with people of privilege or with unfairness if you don't speak harshly along with other people. So social media is a perfect example of this because these days there's a lot of righteous anger and reactivity on every side. And calling people out is very popular. And not calling them out can subject you to various reactions from people.

[14:26]

But this person said, really, we can't force people. What we have to say will only be received if someone wants to hear. So throwing it out there on social media in a harsh way or to someone else in a harsh way is not likely to be heard or to be a word that gives peace. So in the fourfold practices of right speech, this is an example of how can we avoid slander and speak towards reconciliation. And in the... Precepts is an example of how can I live without harsh or rude speech. So what I would say to this person, if we had a long conversation about it, is that really we have to sit with what our response is without slandering someone else.

[15:43]

aiming towards reconciliation. Not conciliation, but reconciliation. Those are different. So conciliation is when we submerge our own point of view for the sake of an assumed peace. But reconciliation is when everybody gets to have their point of view and no point of view is slandered. that we actually see the good and that we try to reconcile various understandings of what is good and come up with our own understanding having heard instead of having ignored. Here's another example. Wait a second, I just want to let that one sink in for a second. But I'm just going to give a few examples. And you can pick up which example is actually relevant.

[16:48]

So the first example was about righteous anger, when we feel our anger is justified. How do we speak? And the second one is closely related, and it's about blame. I don't know if you heard in Abbott Ed's last talk, last couple talks, when he spoke about how in blame we heap suffering onto the suffering that's already there. So he was talking about blame. It's another feature of wrong speech. And the person who talked to me about this said, it's almost as if you're trying to avoid feeling your own suffering. Like you have to create it for them so that it'll register and they'll change. And so the internal thought process in there is, They caused my suffering, so I'll give it back. Like the song, remember, how does it feel? Do you remember that song?

[17:51]

How does it feel? Like abusers who have to pass it on. So in the fourfold formulation of right speech, the statement would be, how do I... how do I avoid harsh words and speak towards benefit, knowing the impact? How do I give life in a situation instead of hurting or killing? If your legs hurt, please rest and then reestablish a good position. I won't think ill of you, really, if you take care of yourself. Okay? And a practice that would go with that is actually hearing... the impact on oneself of what's going on. So rather than just projecting some blame, to actually register or take care of the impact in oneself.

[18:55]

And so, you know, a few months ago I was speaking with Dave Rico about this. He's a therapist who writes about love. He's down in Santa Barbara teaching, writing right now. And we were talking about love, and he said, well, there's several different levels of reaction. A primitive reaction when someone does you wrong is to hurt or hate back. And so a primitive reaction might be to blame. And then... But in the golden rule we hear, well, don't hurt them, don't hate them back, don't blame them. But a mature response would be not only to avoid hating or hurting someone or blaming them, but to do good, again, to find the good. So they're both this question about what to do in situations of blame with speech and what to do in situations where you're being pressured

[20:09]

to be righteously angered are both related. So the answer is to stay in oneself and to learn how to respond instead of to react. Okay, here's another example that a third person gave. We were sitting at the breakfast table and that person said, What about when I must persist with my own perceived truth? Because we just talked about that. To be in one's truth so that we can respond instead of reacting. So this is really important because it has to do with integrity. And how does our speech have integrity? Body, speech, and mind. How does that all have integrity? And integrity just means that everything comes together and works together.

[21:18]

Integrity means that we're one instead of many. So it brings up a very interesting point about lying or telling untruths or submerging our own truth, which is that reality splits when we do that. So integrity is important for wise or noble speech. And because lying steals from one side of the whole to give to another side of the whole without acknowledgement. Lying can accumulate power in one side of reality and take it away from another side of reality. Lying can split up the person who's speaking, who are the deceiver, and the deceived, and can have a negative impact on trust itself or on the bigger picture, such as society as a whole.

[22:28]

So, for instance, let's say that we're in the Sangha and someone says, accidentally eats someone else's food from the refrigerator. And it's marked, but they didn't see the mark until they already ate the food. And then at the work meeting announcement somebody says, I had a slice of birthday cake in the small kitchen refrigerator and now it's gone. Does anyone know what happened to it? And So there's various levels of lying, right? You can say, no, I don't know what happened to it. Or you can just keep silent. One is a lie by, an overt lie, and the other one's a covert lie. But in each case, whether it's overt or covert, the reality is suddenly split up.

[23:31]

We don't know what happened to that cake. even though at one point it was in the refrigerator, and at another point it wasn't in the refrigerator. See how this happens? So reality has suddenly split up, and there's a powerful, you know, like an accumulation of power towards the person who can eat cake with impunity, as opposed to the person whose birthday it was and... who had the special cake and it's now gone. And also the integrity of the trust of that refrigerator. And I'm using the refrigerator deliberately because it's a pretty small space. This refrigerator only has a certain number of cubic feet in it. But we actually can think about all of our shared space or our shared society as just like the refrigerator. And if you want to know more about the dynamics of lying and moral choice and lying, I highly recommend Cicela Bach's book called Lying.

[24:44]

I think it's something like Personal Choice in Public and Private Life. I'm not Moral Choice in Public and Private Life. I forget the subtitle. But the name of the author is Cicela Bach, Be Okay. I highly recommend that book. It's incredibly well thought out and it gives an understanding of the mechanisms of deceit within the context of Western thought. So I highly recommend it. And here's yet another example. This is a question about peer-to-peer correction that someone asked. someone in the Sangha brought up. So this person said, you know, in this Sangha, one of the ways that the Zen monastery or residential temple practice operates is that there's a rule called the Shingi, pure rules.

[25:50]

And so the intention of the pure rules or the practices, the forms that we have together is is that we can create a shared space. So this is continuing with the subject of shared space. So we create a shared space in which what we do follows a certain form or a certain order so that it doesn't stick out or stand out for us. But some of the issues with this shared space or shared order, some of the issues have to do with levels of initiation. Like for instance, if you're not in with the form, if you don't know the form, you can feel horrible when you come to a place like this because besides the wonderful feeling of peace is a sense that you're a bull in a china shop or you're gonna mess it up if you do the littlest thing wrong. So for instance, it's a situation where you might walk on the tatami mat and somebody might come up to you and say, don't step on the line.

[26:57]

and you go, oh no, I did something wrong, is this whole thing gonna shatter, right? So because the Shingi has about 500 million rules in it, some of them really, really important, and some of them kind of supplementary, there are many opportunities to mess up. And also, sorry David, the other feature of it is it's constantly changing, so even if you used to know it, you still can mess up. And one of David's jobs is to make sure that everybody knows the shingy and can actually follow it and receives appropriate feedback. But this person who asked the question is in the situation where they've been here a little bit longer than other people and so they know the shingy and have experienced it many times, but then let's say there's someone who's been here for a week or a year and what do they do?

[28:02]

Like if someone comes into the Buddha Hall and doesn't know at service that they're supposed to step on the tatami mat with their left foot if they're on the left side or if their right foot if they're on the right side and do a certain kind of bow and then walk between the rows to get to their place. What do you do? Do you stop them when they do it wrong or don't you? And I'm talking about it in the temple. The temple's designed to have it be like the minimum impact version of this situation. So you can imagine if you're at work, let's say you're designing according to the California Seismic Code, and your coworker has just come from Massachusetts, and it's their project, but you see that they're doing something with this thickness of column and this kind of support.

[29:03]

And you know that the engineer is going to catch it later. But it's going to save 10 hours if you tell them now. But it's their project and you just happen to see their drawing while you were on the way to the bathroom. So that's a different variation of the same question, right? So this person says, when you see something not in accord with the Shingi, what are you supposed to do? Particularly if you're a senior or slightly senior to the person, but you're not a practice leader or teacher, someone who would have the job or role of giving feedback. Especially if their violation wasn't dangerous, so they weren't setting fire to something. Is there a hierarchy of responsibility? So this is tougher because it actually requires skill. It requires the development of skill. And to develop skills, it's almost inevitable that we have to make mistakes.

[30:05]

And we have to relax about the process of making mistakes, avowing and acknowledging them as we try to develop a deeper level of refinement in relation to our fellow human beings. It's really hard. So in the fourfold formulation of right speech, this would be avoids idle speech. Idle is not just gossip or chatter, but also impulsive speech, like speaking whatever, whenever. Speaks at the right time in accordance with the facts and to the point and purpose. Knowing silence. So it means... knowing that there is an ultimate truth that transcends words and being able to bring it into the world in the right time and in the right way, which is an advanced practice, which takes time to learn.

[31:08]

So I'd say start learning it right away and ask in specific situations, well, what should I do? Because the culture of the company if this is coming up at a company, might be different from the culture of the company where you worked at before. Some companies have an open feedback arrangement where there's a lot of peer-to-peer consulting. And some companies have a very hierarchical setup in which only people who are directly superior to you in the chain of command give feedback. So those are the variations, but between that, there's enormous differences. So this is a question about how to use language meaningfully and usefully in a particular situation. And know that a lot of the teachings are about teacher-student relationships, and that here in America,

[32:14]

where there's so many different kinds of people and so many different kinds of models and structures. This might be a place where this part of the Dharma of horizontal relationships or horizontal feedback is newly discovered. Just like one of my students is learning how to be a peer counselor. And when I was growing up, and even when I was first studying to be a priest or to be a teacher, there was no such thing as peer counseling except in AA. Right? But in regular therapeutics, there was no peer counseling. But now we see the value of peer counseling, and it's actually a position that people do. So we're developing... teachings about peer counselors. Just like in medicine, when I was growing up, you had to go see the doctor.

[33:20]

You couldn't see a nurse. Actually, when I tried to be a nurse, my father said, no, don't be a nurse, be a doctor. You know, because of the status relationships between doctors and nurses at that time. But now we understand the value of nourishing care. It's very specific nourishing care at a daily level that nurses can give. And we understand that that's a specialty that people can devote their lives to. And so this is a change over time in our lifetimes. Okay, so there's so many other ways. I'll just mention another couple of examples from people. Okay. one person brought up a very, very interesting topic. Like when we start thinking about peer-to-peer correction or peer-to-peer right speech.

[34:24]

Speech is not just verbal. There's body language too. And the shape or structure of our lives is also communication. So this person brought up communication which is the bigger picture under which speech comes. And this person said, in the temple we bow. So when we see each other, would you help me demonstrate? So let's say that I see you and you see me and we bow. Thank you. Whoops. Help. That's why you sat so close. Thank you. But there's ways to bow. Sometimes somebody might bow like this. See, he didn't have a chance to bow to me until I was done. Or sometimes somebody could bow like... Right?

[35:30]

So people can be off in their own time zone with bowing. And there's so many other variations. I mean, there's like the... I don't have to go into the flip bow, where you just move your hands around. There's so many different ways to do it. But actually, the bowing practice is very specific in the Zen temple. You can try this yourself. Find your wrist, and find your nose, and find your chin, and your throat. In the bow, your hands are with the fingertips at the tip of the nose level. You can try this yourself. And with the thick part of the wrist at about throat level or expression level. And then you bow from the waist. Wow, I feel so bowed. You feel? But now try it a different way. Just flip your hands around and see what that feels like.

[36:31]

Or like a really fast. It feels like something else. It doesn't feel like a bow. So that was this person's point. She said, how can we practice bowing and other gestures in the temple as positive, upright speech or communication through the body? How can we be aware of our body language and how it impacts people? So part of when I was bowing to you was that in my body, I could feel, you know, there was a there was a conversation, like a body conversation, where I could feel your impact on me and was conscious of my impact on you. So we have to include that as part of right speech, that awareness of impact, not just from the front brain, but also from the back brain and from the body.

[37:33]

Because we can be rude and mean, this person said, without saying a single word. Like for instance, they gave the example of two people are standing in a hallway. You know them very well and they're having a conversation. And you walk past and you bow or wave. And they just, you know, they put their shoulder to you and kind of huddle in further. So... that person went away feeling really, really upset and unincluded. And the others were maybe not conscious of it, but they were defending their space. I'm not saying that's bad, but it may have been unconscious, may have had an unconscious impact on both sides. Like maybe the people who were having the conversation felt invaded by the person's bow or by the person's wave. Maybe they were speaking about something very serious or private that couldn't be breached.

[38:38]

So there's no answer. I can't give a prescription about this because I don't know. And nobody knows. Nobody knows until we know. And even then we don't know. So we have to be aware of what we don't know. And curiosity and a sense of the body are then very, very important to write speech. So, yeah, it's five minutes. Thank you, David. Okay, so I'll just mention another thing that someone brought up was cultural difference, where something that's very respectful in one way culture can be extremely rude or even offensive in another. More on this later. So I just want to close very, very quickly with some quotes from some people and with a short poem.

[39:47]

So after we had these conversations about right speech, and I probably had 25 or 30 conversations with people about right speech in the last couple weeks. Here are some of the comments on individual practices that people made. Of course you have to understand what you want to do and I highly recommend that you read the teachings and memorize them so that you can understand which one you need to practice in your life. because the teaching isn't really the teaching until it's learned. But this is what some people said. Remember that they are your friend. It is hard to do this at the spur of the moment. That was one person. And somebody said, the point of my speaking to them is not my conversion rate.

[40:52]

I think that if the ends are not there, the means are broken. But I have to just practice with this. Someone said, well, what's helpful to me is that I have to remember that my heart keeps beating. My heart doesn't react. It's a different part of me that's reacting. So I bring my attention to my heartbeat. And then about bowing, that person said, I have to remember, is my bow just a rule I observe? Or is it restorative, uplifting, and loving? And then somebody else said, well, I have to be silent for a while. I stand back because I don't know who wants my words or how much they want them. And then another person said, I don't need to blame them.

[41:58]

I need to communicate their impact, not give them more suffering. So these are statements of people who are practicing and how they're practicing with right speech. So in summary, I want to say that we express not just right speech, but love when we pick a teaching to really study and to align with every time we speak at home or in any situation. Whether it's self-talk or whether it's talk in a social situation, which is what I've been emphasizing today. Whether it's verbal speech or whether it's physical speech. that we can refine what we do through knowing the teaching, through putting them into place, and to receiving and learning from the impact, whether it's on the mind, on the speech, or on the body of the person we're with.

[43:05]

So I do want to close with, this is a translation by my Dharma brother, Norman Fisher, and this is in his book, Opening to You. which is Zen-inspired translations of the Psalms. And this is Psalm 133. How good, how pleasant, when we abide intimate together, like warm oil on the head trickling down the cheek, Aaron's cheek, and trickling down the neck onto the collar, like the dew of Mount Hermon. the dew that runs down the mountains of Zion, where you called forth the blessing for life, life always. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center.

[44:10]

Our Dharma talks are offered at no cost, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

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