This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Welcome to this great assembly. Welcome to this great assembly. Welcome to this great assembly. Being in this great assembly, there is now the opportunity to... settle into the experience of this great assembly.

[01:09]

How wonderful. How auspicious. This gathering. Some questions have arisen that I thought perhaps I could offer to you, share with you. May I? First question is, what is Zen? Next, what is Zen practice? Next, what is a Zen person? And also, what is the meaning or value of Zen?

[02:45]

What's beneficial about Zen practice? What's beneficial about a Zen person? How does the... and practitioners, how do they benefit this world where there's so much suffering? Suffering from illness and injury, suffering from old age and death, suffering from unkindness among humans, injustice, diluted, mean activity, all this suffering, how does or does Zen have the possibility of bringing peace and freedom in the midst of this world?

[03:54]

My understanding is that That's exactly what it's about and that it does have this function and this function can be realized. What function? To realize awakening in the midst of deluded activity and by realizing awakening to liberate beings from deluded suffering. I have been offered a seat and some water. When people come to meet us, there is a tradition of offering them a seat and some water. Thank you.

[05:05]

Now I begin to respond to my questions that I gave you. For me, now, Zen is a conversation. An intimate, wholehearted, sincere, and genuine conversation. It's nothing in itself. It cannot be grasped. It is the way. It is the manner in which all beings are in conversation. It is the conversation. It is quiet.

[06:17]

It is quiet. It's free. It's ungraspable. What is Zen practice? Zen practice also is a conversation. It is a mutual, intimate communion between all beings. between you and all other humans, all other plants, animals, and between each of us and all Buddhas. It's a communion among Buddhas and it's a communion among bodhisattvas. And I suggest to you we are all bodhisattvas. We are all beings who are on the path of awakening, whether we know it or not.

[07:18]

And the path of awakening, the practice of Zen, is for us to be in conversation and to meditate on that, to remember that and to be undistracted, to be focused and relaxed with the conversation. And this conversation, I propose, is the real liberation beings from suffering that comes with delusion. Delusion is actually a conversation too. However, it is a conversation that doesn't pay attention to the conversation. It ignores the concentration. It is ignorance of the fact that everything, every being like me and you

[08:21]

We are conversation. We are conversation. And we're also in conversation with other conversations. And what's a Zen person? A Zen person is also a conversation. A Zen practitioner isn't somebody who practiced practices by herself. The practice we do by ourself is, hopefully, a pleasant delusion. The real practice, the real practitioner, is a conversation. The Zen student and the Zen teacher by themselves are not Zen teachers and Zen students by themselves. The Zen teacher is a conversation. The Zen student is a conversation.

[09:23]

And they are in conversation. That's a Zen person. And a Zen person has been given compliments, like sometimes say, a Zen person is like a vigorously jumping fish. And the word, the Japanese word, I don't know how to say it in Chinese, but the Japanese word I think, for this vigorously jumping ship, fish, is onomatopoetic. It's kapatsu poof. Or kapatsu pop. This Zen person, this conversation, is lively and alive. It brings full life to everyone and liberates them from partial life. from suffering, in the midst of suffering, in the midst of the ocean of suffering. All these conversations are leaping free.

[10:27]

And this leaping free conversation can be transmitted to others and encourage others to join the conversation. I pray for that. I offer it. To you, what do I offer? A conversation. I offer this person who is a conversation. I do not wish to offer a person who is not a conversation, who just talks to you and tells you what's going on. I want to offer you a conversation. And I think you're offering me the same. Another step into the mystery of the practice of conversation, which is the practice of the way things are.

[11:32]

The way things are is that they are actually nothing but conversation between themselves and others. Nothing, nobody, nowhere exists on their own. That's the way that everybody is. And this not independently existing conversation, it is, by the way, radiant. It's radiant. The conversation is brilliant and bright. And it illuminates. all beings throughout the universe. Your light, the light of you as a conversation, the light of you in conversation, illuminates all beings and liberates them from delusion.

[12:38]

In conversation, The whole universe supports me and pervades me. And I, as a conversation, pervade the entire universe. The practice of sinning is just like that. It is a conversation that includes all beings and is included in all beings. I am completely included in each of you. And not only in each of you, but in each tiny part of you. And each and every one of you is included in every atomic particle of me. We are totally intimate. That is our light.

[13:45]

And it comes down to every simple particle of our life and every single molecules, every single... Is DNA a molecule? Or is it a bunch of molecules? Anyway, it pervades our DNA. What pervades? This conversation pervades our DNA. And our DNA, by being pervaded in this conversation, our DNA emits this great radiance. It comes down to little particles, but it also comes down to, like, human bodies. Like a human body of a man or a woman or a child. Young ones, old ones, all human bodies. fully possess this radiance of reality.

[14:52]

And they completely share it. And completely receive it from others. So, for example, here's some examples. First one's kind of funny. This morning, there's various stories about how this happened, but anyway, this morning, apparently my alarm clock didn't go off. And that was way before the power went off. I have some theories about how that happened. Basically, I think I forgot to turn it on. Anyway, it didn't go off. So, there I was, in my bed, in the dark, Undisturbed by alarm clocks. And before I went to sleep, I had the intention of getting up here and coming to this room around five o'clock to sit.

[16:03]

To sit in conversation with the people in this room and to sit in conversation with people throughout the universe. That was my intention when I went to sleep. And it was my intention all through the night. And it was my intention when somebody came to visit me. So a kind attendant came to the house around the usual time to pick me up and, excuse the expression, drag me to this hall. She doesn't drag me. She pushes me from behind. So a kind attendant came, and I imagine the kind attendant saw that there was no lights on, which is unusual. Not unprecedented, but unusual. And she thought, maybe his alarm clock didn't go off or something. Or maybe he's not coming this morning.

[17:08]

Maybe he doesn't want to come to this room so early in the morning. I don't know what she thought. You can ask her later. But anyway, her job is... To wake me up, right? The attendant's job is to wake me up. What's my job? It's to wake up the attendant. In conversation, right? You got the picture? Your job is to, as bodhisattvas, your job is to wake people up from delusion. And to be awakened by others from delusion. That's our job. As bodhisattvas. As Zen people. So she came into the dark house. I guess she came in. And she walked in and she moved towards the bedroom.

[18:12]

And she called out. And what did she say? Do you know what she said? She knows what she said. What did she say? I said, attention, Roshi, are you coming to the Zendo today? Did you hear that? Did you hear that? That's what she said. And I said, what did I say? I'm coming. I said, I'm coming. I wanted to come here this morning. Some mornings I don't, but this morning I did. In the dark, there was light. This person came in, and there was light. And her light woke me up. Her light talked. Are you coming? And then my light said, yes, I'm coming. I didn't say yes. I think I said, I'm coming, enthusiastically. And got dressed faster than usual.

[19:20]

And I'm embarrassed also to say in conversation that I didn't have time to brush my teeth. And we got here on time. Amazing. We got here on time. We got in here before the period started and we sat. I sat there. She sat there. You sat there. Everybody sat all over the room. We sat in conversation. And that conversation was radiant. And now you have come. All of you have come. And you've come. And you have brought your conversation and your radiance. And it inspires me. To what? remember and be undistracted from this radiance of our conversation.

[20:33]

This, yeah, so this focused, relaxed, open, undistracted presence with this radiance is sometimes called the concentration of the Treasury of light. That's another name for Zen meditation. Absorption in the treasury of light. The treasury of our conversation with all beings. But many people have gone to Zen centers... And when they first come for zavasana instruction, we do not say, we are now giving you instruction on how to meditate on the treasury of light. We say, we're now going to teach you the posture and how to move in the room and so on.

[21:34]

Which is also light, but we don't usually mention it. Today I'm mentioning it. Our great teacher Suzuki Roshi said... his answer to the question, what is practice? He said practice is just to sit. Of course, I'm in complete accord with that, and I have enjoyed that teaching for more than 55 years. Our practice is just to sit. This is the treasury of light in a bite-sized portion, a body-sitting portion of the unlimited, infinite light of awakening. And he knew that, but he thought that it might be good to give us a nice, simple version of being in conversation with the whole universe.

[22:43]

A nice, simple version to practice the whole universe being in conversation with us. And then he said, he often said, after saying our practice is just to sit, he said, but that may not be easy to understand, or that may be difficult to understand. It may be difficult to understand how you understand are in conversation with the whole universe. That's what just sitting means. And that may be difficult to understand. But we can work on it. We can meditate on it and meditate on it until we realize it. He also said... Our practice is just to sit in each moment without expecting anything.

[23:54]

Our practice is to sit in each moment without trying to get anything beyond just sitting. To be where we are right now, to be who we are right now, and not expect anything beyond that. This makes sense to me because... since you are already the universe in conversation, there's nothing more happening in the universe than what's happening for you now. What's happening now includes everything. There's nothing more or less. So if we sit that way, we open to realize this radiance, the radiance of the Buddha, the radiance of awakening. He also said, which I also have appreciated. Our practice is just to be ourself, again, in each moment, without expecting anything beyond this moment of being this person.

[25:01]

And I'm unfolding that teaching, I'm unfolding that Dharma flag of his to point out that just to be yourself in this moment, is just to be in conversation with all beings. It is just to be supported by everyone, and it is just to support everyone. And it is for the sake of realizing that. And realizing that is what liberates all beings. So again, right now, you are all supporting me, Your light is inspiring me, and you're also inspiring each other. Whether you know it or not, that's what we call Zen practice. It's always going on. It's a question of being present with it and learning to be present with it moment by moment, no matter what it looks like.

[26:13]

It may look like a difficult person. And that person might be you. It might look like difficult feelings. Painful thoughts. And all those things are radiantly in conversation with the whole universe. And if you learn to be with them, with that teaching, you will... That willingness to be there with it, not so much that you will realize this, but the willingness to be concentrated on this light is exactly where all Buddhas realize the ocean of awakening. It's not that I do, it's that the samadhi which I'm living in, which is aware of this treasury of light, that samadhi is where the Buddhas sit and where the Buddhas awaken to the ocean of truth.

[27:38]

And this allows us to carry on practice of a sitting Buddha and an acting Buddha in utter simplicity. Utter simplicity of whatever we are doing, whatever we are thinking, whatever we are saying, to be in this concentration. This would lead us to be respectful of everything in ourselves and others. Because everything is the light. Because everything is a conversation with everything. Nothing is not a conversation with everything. That's what nothing is. It's not in conversation. There's nothing like that.

[28:42]

But there is everything like that. Each and every person embodies this light. And then there's a possibility to be absorbed and concentrated on it. And Zen practice is this absorption. And a Zen person lives in this absorption. And... I just kind of thought that I hadn't been talking very long. I'm going to check to see what the watch says. The watch doesn't agree. The watch thinks I've been talking pretty long. So I'm sorry I've been talking so long. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our programs are made possible by the donations we receive.

[29:45]

Please help us to continue to realize and actualize the practice of giving by offering your financial support. For more information, visit sfzc.org and click Giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[30:06]

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