When I was at AHE Monastery, I was very glad to see one famous Zen master named Hashimoto Roshi. At AHE Monastery, I had completely no idea of Buddhism or no idea of the Buddhist practice, idea of Zazen. Because my master didn't teach anything at all. Just a short demonstration of Zazen, just twice, maybe twice. And he taught me how to use the Oryo-ki, how to sit, how to wear the Kuromo, that's all.

[01:02]

No idea how important Zazen was. He didn't teach me. That time I met several famous Zen masters. But Hashimoto Roshi led me to open my eyes as a priest or the eyes of the Buddhist practice, how important the Buddhist Zazen is. When he gave a lecture of Kanda Zenki, I had no idea of how important Zazen was and I didn't have any knowledge of the logical aspect of our practice.

[02:15]

Hashimoto Roshi put the emphasis on how important Zazen itself was, according to Kanda Zenki, that's all. Then he said that Zazen is characteristic of the same future as the Buddhist one. When you sit Zazen, you become Buddha. I was very surprised at hearing this point, wow, wonderful. But I didn't know, I didn't have any knowledge of logical point of how important Zazen was. I heard just this point, when you sit, you become Buddha.

[03:17]

So, I was very busy taking care of my responsibilities, but I was always watching for every chance I could get to practice Zazen. So I sneaked out of the temple after everybody was sleeping. We had a very funny bias, which it was not necessary to attend the Zazen and the service.

[04:39]

If you are in the position of like a waiter, who is taking care of guests, people, because he has to spend countless times of taking care of visitors. So actually, we didn't have enough time to attend the Zazen and service. But we had in A.H. Monastery a very funny bias, it is not necessary to go to the Zazen, to go to the service. If you have a certain position, which you are taking care of visitors, or in the kitchen, because they are very busy.

[05:48]

But I always watched every chance to go to the Zazen and service, so people called me, you are crazy. But the statement, as Hashimoto Roshi said, if you sit Zazen, you become Buddha. It compelled me to go to Zazen, to go to the service. It couldn't be helped for me. But anyway, Hashimoto Roshi led me to open my eyes, what human being is, what practice is, what Zazen is. And after the A.H. Monastery, I went to college.

[06:59]

That time I met a very different type of Zen master named Sawaki Roshi. He was very different type, very different type from Hashimoto Roshi. He didn't have his own temple. He always took a trip to teach Zazen, to have Sesshin, to give lectures, all years. He never stayed at his own home, house. He taught Zazen, he gave a lesson in Zazen at Komazoe University. That time I met Sawaki Roshi and he always used very interesting stories.

[08:15]

But Hashimoto Roshi didn't use very interesting stories. He was very strict, he was very strict. According to just the Dogen's, just the principle of Dogen's life, completely same. Very strict. So the students never laughed while he gave lectures because his talk, his talk was very strict, very serious. Dogen Zenji says, to study the Buddhism is to study the self. Well, when I talk, when I speak using the Dogen's statement, you laugh.

[09:21]

But when Hashimoto Roshi used this same statement, nobody laughed. At Komazoe University, Sawaki Roshi was a very different type. He used very interesting stories and people always laughed. But I didn't understand exactly why he had to use such funny stories. I didn't understand completely. But one day he used such a funny story. When he explained the first chapter of Z-Monkey written by Dogen,

[10:29]

the first chapter, I think it says, I don't remember exactly, but the content of the first chapter is that among the everyday bow, bow to the Buddha statues at his room, according to Dogen's way of practice, as he said in one of the chapters of Shobo Genzo, we shouldn't, it is not necessary to use the chanting sutra, invocation of the Buddha's name, just do Zazen, that's all. But in this chapter of Z-Monkey, one of the monks, very enthusiastic of paying homage to the Buddha statue,

[11:55]

I don't remember exactly the name completely, but in this story, I think the Buddha statue turned into a snake. It means it's not necessary to be enthusiastic of paying homage excessively. So Akiyoshi explained this point at that time, he used very interesting stories. Sometimes this Zen master used the story made by himself, like a fiction. Sometimes he quoted some stories from the famous book, but he never laughed.

[13:12]

He was seemingly serious, but students laughed. I don't know exactly the story I will tell you, whether it was quoted from the famous book, or it was made by the Zen master himself, I don't know exactly. Anyway, he said like this. A Buddhist fellow had a great chance to have a great present. The Buddhist fellow was given by one of his friends as a present,

[14:25]

a very good incense stick, which smells very good. Then, he is a very serious Buddhist follower, so he thought, I want to offer this incense to the Buddha. He went to his own temple, and he lighted the incense stick and offered the incense to the Buddha. Then for a while, he stayed there, and he enjoyed very much,

[15:32]

tasting the good smell, sitting in front of the Buddha. At that time, he found the smoke rising up, not straightly, the smoke is going to the right or to the left, all directions sometimes. Sometimes smoke is rising up straightly. Then at that time, he found a funny thing. Well, because the smoke is going to many bodhisattvas, many arahants, which are enshrined in the temple by the Buddha statue.

[16:34]

Many bodhisattvas and arahants are enshrined in the temple. Just in the center, the Shakyamuni Buddha is enshrined. He offered the incense stick to the Shakyamuni Buddha, not to the bodhisattvas, not to the arahants, but smoke is going to the arahants and bodhisattvas. Wow, it's not my idea. It's not my idea. I wanted to offer the Shakyamuni Buddha, just the Shakyamuni Buddha. Please stay there. But smoke is always going on to the bodhisattvas and arahants. Then he returned to his home and got a horse, a pipe,

[17:37]

a pipe. And he came back to the temple and he put the pipe to the Buddha's nose, sticked it in. He... Because he didn't want to, he didn't want to give, he didn't want to share the smoke, good smoke, good smell to the bodhisattvas and arahants. He wanted to give just the Buddha statue, the Shakyamuni Buddha. So he sticked the pipe to his nose and... This is very interesting, you know. So the other day I mentioned, even though you believe in Buddha,

[18:44]

the existence of Buddha in this world, the Buddha is not always staying as the Buddha himself. Sometimes the Buddha exists, Buddha exists in front of you with a sort of mask of a devil, a snake, or sometimes one of the no mask, no mask, do you know the no mask? Like this. Very funny face. But you yourself are very serious, I believe, I believe Buddhism, I believe Zen, you know, Zen is very good. You believe the Buddha himself, so you always offer the incense, but actually you don't want to share,

[19:46]

you don't want to share, any kind of bodhisattvas or arahants. Then one of the people who believe in Christianity, he said, oh I don't want to share one aspect of Buddhism to you. Buddhism is just for Buddhists. You get out. It is not Buddha, it is not Buddha. Buddha, if you believe Buddha exists, Buddha is the Buddha with a funny mask, mask of a devil. So you should be very careful, you should be very careful. Before you are aware of yourself,

[20:50]

Buddha, the Buddha who you believe, gradually turns into the mask of the devil. When you are aware of, wow, this is the mask of the devil, it's too late, already you stick in the pipe to the Buddha's nose. Because we have already the ego's consciousness, as a subconscious mind. Also this ego consciousness is always functioning, always functioning whatever you do. Sleeping? It's terrible, it's terrible. In a sense it makes me sometimes pensive. That's why Buddhism says always

[21:54]

take away from your ego. So to take away from ego, it seems to you that it makes you smaller and smaller. Because to get away from the ego is simply to lead you to disappear, to ignore your individual, or the individual characters. To ignore seemingly. But if you want to know the truth, true self as you are,

[22:58]

first of all you have to know, you have to know so well what your mind is based on. First, this is very important. Then that's why Sawaki Roshi used this story. Unconsciously or consciously, we always put the pipe to the Buddha's nose in order to sense through the good smell without sharing it with bodhisattvas or arahants. But your consciousness, the six consciousnesses,

[24:01]

want to share, you know. But something doesn't want. Something impels you not to share the good smell with bodhisattvas and arahants. What is it? Then, after Sawaki Roshi's lecture, one of the students asked him, this question is very interesting, because Sawaki Roshi always gave very interesting, funny stories. Which looked like going out of the rail, out of the rail which is called Buddhism. So one of the students asked me,

[25:04]

how did you get such funny stories? How did you get such funny stories? He said, shut up. Immediately he said, shut up. It doesn't matter from where he gets, he gets this story, you know. But your mind is always interesting. How did you get such an interesting story? Zen Master said, shut up. This shut up is very good, you know. Shut up. Shut up. And then Sawaki Roshi said, the Buddha statue which this guy believed, paid homage with a good incense stick, is not the real statue of the Buddha.

[26:07]

Not real Buddha statue. It is a sort of idol. A sort of idol, he said. How did you get such an interesting story? Because you will find another interesting school of religion in Japan, Sokugakkai, you know so well, you know. Sokugakkai of many new religions in Japan. As if Japan was, looks like an exhibition of religion.

[27:11]

One of the religions put emphasis on his own religion, how great it is. You should believe this Buddha only. You should follow the Sokugakkai, that's all. If you believe Zen Buddhism, you have to go to hell. Don't believe Zen. Don't approach Zen Buddhism. Don't approach another school of Buddhism. You should believe only one. This is our religion. Then after that, the students were very glad to hear the Sankyroshi's example.

[28:18]

Because this example is completely, you know, how would you say, critical, critical and and seemingly godly, or you know sarcastic and effective to the point, you know, what the religion is, what the true religion is. If you believe the Buddha, you have to believe the true Buddha, not idol.

[29:22]

Not idol. If you believe, if you pay homage to the statue of Buddha, you have to, you shouldn't pay, you shouldn't bow to the statue of the Buddha, which is called idol. You have to pay homage to the true Buddha. The the people who believe in the new religion are always stressed on how great their own religion is. It looks like, it looks like putting the pipe to the snow, Buddha's nose, you know, in order to send the good smell without sharing to Bodhisattva and Arahant.

[30:25]

And then the students who listened to this example were very glad to hear that. After the lecture, he said to the Sawakiroshi, how wonderful your lecture is, you know. Because he found many religions which put the emphasis on how great only his religion is. Your criticism is great. Wonderful talk. So, that time he said, it seems to me that you are always looking at, you are always looking at the something through your telescope. Looking at the far distance, something in the far distance through your,

[31:35]

through the telescope. I didn't tell you anything at all. Why don't you look at something not in the far distance? Why don't you are looking at yourself, throwing away the telescope? You know. This is very important, you know. He doesn't, he doesn't want to, he doesn't want to tell you, he doesn't want to tell you how great Zazen is, how great Buddhism is. Even though you feel in that way, Buddhism is wonderful. Then you said, oh, your talk is very good. Because all human beings in our day must learn Buddhism. It looks like you look at something in far away through the telescope.

[32:39]

That's why he, Zen master, why don't you throw away this telescope and look at yourself? Or sometimes he, one of the students ask, how did you get such an interesting story? Sharp. That's all. Important point is, Zazen is, the Buddhism is, Buddhism enable to look at, look at yourself carefully. Without escaping it, without attaching to it. This is practice. This is practice.

[33:42]

In a sense, it's pretty hard to explain how much you touch to the Buddha, or how much you shouldn't. You shouldn't touch to the Buddhism. I cannot explain how much. But, first important point is, not matter of discussion, how much you touch to Buddhism, or how much you shouldn't touch to Buddhism. If you seek for how much, I should touch to it, or I shouldn't touch to it. It looks like, it seems to me that you always looking at something in far distance, through the telescope. So first of all, throwing away telescope, and look at yourself. In order to look at yourself, throwing away the telescope,

[34:49]

you have to know. You have to know yourself. You have to know yourself. Then, one of, some aspect of Buddhist philosophy says, human being, the life, human life and the world, are based on the emptiness. But you don't understand so well, then the Buddhism analyze phenomena of human life and the world. This is Buddhist psychology, you know, as mentioned the other day. The seventh consciousness, named Manas consciousness, is ego consciousness, which is functioning always, without ceasing even for a moment.

[35:55]

Through your practice, through your life experience, you have to know. You have to watch yourself and know so well. Know what the Manas, what the seventh consciousness is. I can't explain, I can't explain, I cannot show this is Manas consciousness, what you have. I can't. Individual must get taste of it, what it is. If you understand, if you understand the Manas so well, Manas consciousness, so well, what is the, what is the root of the sixth consciousness?

[37:02]

So, in a sense, sometimes it make you, make you pensive, make you discourage. But, I'm sorry for you, but everybody has this strong ego consciousness. Anyway, you have to know. If you want to know, if you want to approach as close as you can, the truth, the goal of the truth, you have to know this. But, this, the ego consciousness, is not, doesn't have any substantial quality. Which would, which would,

[38:08]

which wouldn't make you, make your plan and effort for improvement or progress. This consciousness is a sort of subconscious mind, which is always functioning in the bottom of your mind. It has, it has moral, neutral nature of morality. But, if you handle this, if you handle this carelessly, it immediately makes appearance in your daily life, whatever you do.

[39:12]

With pleasure, with sad, with the feeling of sadness, with the feeling of pleasure, whatever kind of feeling you have. Sometimes, you see, you want to, you want, you want, you want to scold him. Sometimes, you want to pat, pat the head of the self-conscious, you know, self-conscious. When you are, when you are satisfied with the success with yourself. With the, with the succession, success, with the success

[40:23]

of your business, of your work, of your practice. As much as possible, the seventh consciousness, this manas consciousness must be, must be, must stay tranquility, you know, still in the bottom of their mind. Without without without stimulating it excessively. You should watch carefully whatever happens. You know. Then, you have to make the six consciousnesses

[41:27]

are still as long as you can. If your six consciousnesses are still, you can handle the seventh consciousnesses, which exist calmly in the bottom of your mind. In other words, you can watch it carefully without stimulating it. Hmm. For this, I think it is not necessary to have excessive stimulation, excessive stimulation

[42:31]

to to those six consciousnesses. In other words, it is not necessary to have excessive tension, excessive tension. Even though in zazen, if you have excessive tense, you will find lots of trouble, you know, in your zazen. Hmm. So, you shouldn't have the excessive tense. It is really necessary for us in our day to make the six consciousnesses are still without stimulating them so much.

[43:38]

In zazen, as much as possible, the function of all six consciousnesses must be still without stimulating them, without intense, without too much tense. In other words, you should rely upon you should rely upon zazen itself, which is beyond discrimination, discrimination whether zazen is good or bad. You should rely upon the something bigger than the judgment which you make. You should rely upon the six consciousnesses themselves, you know.

[44:49]

You should rely upon your body itself. If you try to fight, if you try to fight the six consciousnesses, even for a moment, it leaves you in confusion of finding lots of trouble, you know. Then, in zazen, whatever kind of thoughts are running through your head, I want you to stay in calmness without tense. Then, I said very open, don't repulse,

[45:52]

you should rely upon your own six consciousnesses, which exist, which exist in the big world. The six consciousnesses themselves are not something bad, are not something bad, but you would make, create lots of trouble. If your excessive passion, excessive passion, you know, if you have excessive passion saying, I don't like, I like, I dislike or I like, excessive passion, excessive attachment, excessive tense, leave you in troubles, in bewilderment.

[46:58]

So you have to, you have to, at any cost, to keep away from excessive passion, excessive tense. This is very important. And then, you should rely, you yourself, rely upon just in the domain of six consciousnesses themselves. For this, just don't repulse, don't pursue. If you hear some sound from the gong, small gong or big gong, the sound comes up to your ears, and has gone, has gone through the other, the other ears. If you have excessive passion, or excessive attachment, it makes your water,

[48:04]

which is called the seven consciousnesses, dirty. What kind of bell it is? How nice that sound is. Who hits the bell? You always chase after, you know? You always, you try to unconsciously have excessive passion. I want to know, who hit, who hit that bell? Because sound is very good. After zazen, I want to find who, who hit. That's okay, that's okay, but at least during in-zazen, you should, you should be relaxed. You should be relaxed in the domain of, right in the middle of zazen itself. This is very important. This is very important.

[49:05]

At that time, the still status, the still status, tranquil status of six consciousnesses can see the depth of the human mind, which is called unconscious. Self-conscious mind. What, in what situation self-conscious, self-conscious mind is? You can see it. But if your six consciousnesses are very busy, are confused, you can't see. You can't see the depth of the phenomenon. You can't see, you cannot see the depth of the trees, all sentient beings, others' feelings. The practice, it is, the practice which make your, make your six consciousnesses still

[50:09]

is very important for us. Because six consciousnesses have very close relation with self-conscious mind, self-conscious mind. You cannot get it. You cannot get what self-consciousness is. Through the status, through the still status of six consciousnesses, which is functioning in appearance, you can see, you can see what self-conscious mind is. You can see the depth of the human life, the world is. The,

[51:09]

I don't want to, I don't want to put the emphasis on how great Buddhism is. I don't think the Buddhism is best in this world. Individual must, will have to concede again and again Buddhism, whether Buddhism is best or not in this world. When you, when you compare Buddhism with Christianity, you say Buddhism is better, better than Christianity. It's nonsense. It's nonsense. Uh, I think Buddhism is

[52:13]

always telling us to look at yourself, always. To look at yourself, emphasis that Buddhism, emphasis that you must look at yourself seems to make you, make the characteristic of your personality, the personality of your own smaller and smaller, you know. The more you strictly, you seriously look upon, reflect upon yourself, there is nothing to, there is nothing to be valuable, you know. But Buddhism always says look at yourself, watch yourself carefully. It seems, it seems to, to make the personality of your own

[53:15]

smaller and smaller. But this is very important, but in a sense, such a sense, such a sense prevent from development, development of scientific technology, always such a way of understanding, such a practice always enable man, enable man to prevent from, you know, civilization, human civilization on the basis of scientific technology. Because you have to always watch yourself, you know, before you research the object, what you, who you are, like this, you know.

[54:15]

Who Katagiri is, Katagiri came from Japan, you know. I think the, the Buddhism has a very good point, but a good point is identical with the bad point. This is very true, this is true. You know, if you practice, if you study Buddhism, the, some aspect of Buddhist philosophy says one is all, all is one. What does it mean? One is all. But in, according to the Western way of understanding is one is one, all is all. So you have to research, you know.

[55:18]

That's why it's such a way of understanding makes the human civilization develop. Considered as scientific technology. This is very good. But this very good is identical with the bad point. So towards the direction of human beings, each of us must consider again and again what is right, what is good, what is bad. I don't think Oriental way of understanding is good. I don't think the Western way of understanding is bad. It's, it depends on you how,

[56:21]

how much, how you, how much, how you can, how you can study. How you can understand the true status of human beings. Jaya.

[57:00]

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