We're actually using it as a backup at this point. Let me check with the email first. So we took the blue to the camera, that's this black one, is that the top? Can you try that? Sure. Oh, I'll thank you. Oh, yeah.

[01:41]

Praise. Let's do that. We'll turn around after the opening chat. Everything you say is going to be broadcast. I don't know. I swear. [...] Why don't they help?

[03:09]

Oh, no. I was dreaming you had a perfect moment.

[13:13]

It was a really immense way of it. It had a hundred thousand million problems. I had a minute to see and listen to children that were in their sight. I could run on to taste the truth of the love of the tired times of words. Good evening, everyone. Welcome. Those of you here in the room and those of you out there on Zoom. It's my pleasure to be here. My name is Roger. I'm a resident here at City Center and also a practice leader. So I do come to you tonight with a heavy heart. Today, I learned of two deaths of friends of mine and fellow practitioners of mine, and also there was a death a couple weeks ago of another friend and practitioner.

[14:21]

All of these three individuals have had very strong impact in my life. Today, this morning, Silver John Hall passed away, a longtime Zen practitioner, and lay entrusted. who was living in Sonoma. And, uh, he and I studied and worked together along the Zen path. And then I was speaking with a friend of mine on the phone early in the evening. And he informed me that a friend of mine passed away just recently, a fellow that, uh, I traveled the path in a 12 step work with. And, uh, sponsor and sponsee and he had been ill for some time but he passed away not so long ago and then a few weeks ago his name was Rick Rucker and a few weeks ago a woman Patricia Brown passed away who was a very influential yoga and meditation teacher to me and for me and so the path that we travel

[15:35]

It's not always happy. It's not always to our liking. But it's always revealing. It's always meaningful and impactful. And that character Buffalo Bill had to say, I never could resist the call of the path. And it's so, so true that we cannot resist the call of the path. We're always on the path. And sometimes it's dark and sometimes it's light and airy and buoyant. If you're anything like me, I can be a character of extremes and either I'm in some dark, dark place and feeling insecure and troubled or I'm buoyant and happy and bursting forward. We tend to think it's one way or the other, but it's not.

[16:39]

There is the middle path, as we've so heard in Buddhism. And I want to talk about that some today, tonight. So not only can we not resist the call of the path, because like it or not, we're always on it. And that's for us to recognize, that's for us to cultivate, and that's for us to be involved with. Sometimes we are near and sometimes we're far from where we think we're going. But sometimes we always kind of think we're going somewhere on this path, that it has some goal. It's out there, up there, or over there, or back here, or what have you. But the path is not linear. The path is circuitous. And I've spoken several times before about the labyrinth. You may know that labyrinths are different than mazes. Labyrinths have one route into the center and one route out.

[17:40]

But it's very circuitous. So you're walking the labyrinths, and it's an incredible metaphor for life. It's an incredible metaphor for that path of life that we're all on. Because you're walking around and you think you're almost to the center, and oh boy, I'm there. I've succeeded. I've done it. This can be the mindset. But in fact, what happens, all of a sudden, you're way back out on the perimeter because the labyrinth is a series of turns, and you make a turn, and then that path may take you way back out. But you're still on the path, and you are still progressing. And if you're real conscious, you're still right there, present. So keeping that in mind... hopefully we don't get stuck in that linear concept of the path. I'm going to do this, and then that will happen, and that will happen, and that will happen, and it will always be going this way.

[18:44]

But we get oftentimes very disappointed at that point because then there's a blip in it, or the path goes as circuitous like the labyrinth. As it says at the end of the harmony of difference and equality, If you don't understand the way right before you, how will you know the path as you walk? In other words, right here, right now before me, not out there, not back there. How will you know the path as you walk? Progress is not a matter of far or near, but if you are confused, mountains and rivers block your way. I respectfully urge you who study the mystery Do not pass your days and nights in vain. And one of the ways I can pass my days and nights in vain is by wishing it was like this or regretting it's like that or, you know, oh, this is problematic or what do I do now or what have you.

[19:47]

Don't pass your days and nights in vain is saying, basically, be present. So the journey along the path is about being present. being right here, right now, right on the path, listening for the request. Because the path issues requests and invitations. Oh, here's an opportunity for you. Or here's a glitch that may have some aid in your progression, aid in your understanding. So you listen for that request or invitation, which... to my mind and to my thinking, come from deep within us, from our Buddha nature. And the more we can get close to that, the more we can listen to that, the more that our life moves smoothly. These requests come in subtle ways sometimes. It's clear that in inspiration sometimes it's like stumbling or entering into the dark.

[20:54]

And sometimes we're struck by inspiration and sometimes by foresight. But it's important to listen both with your hearts, your souls, and with your eyes and your ears. The journey is every moment. So the journey along the path, as I mentioned, is full of twists and turns. It is like that labyrinth. And I've spoken about the labyrinth before and about that circuitous path in and back out again. And it's a real, as I mentioned also, it's a metaphor for life. Interestingly, for me, for many years, I was having a very difficult time trying to meditate and such. And through an inspiration, if you will, through looking in what, I don't know, yeah, I think they still have it. The San Francisco Chronicle has a Sunday's date book section.

[21:57]

And in that date book section in the back used to be a list of things. And why I looked at it, when I did, and this was now 30 some odd years ago, there was a little listing and it said, Labyrinth at Grace Cathedral. And I don't know why, but it struck me. I knew nothing about labyrinths, but it said there was an event happening on such and such a night. And I went to it, and I started walking the labyrinths. And somehow that was a message I got, I consider, from my Buddha nature, look this and go, and I did. And it worked for me, that I could do that. I could walk labyrinths, and somehow it was meaningful, and it became more and more meaningful. and it offered me something that I didn't have before. So what happens if the path becomes dark?

[23:00]

That was an inspirational one, and that was joyous and happy and led to many years of me walking the labyrinth, which I still do regularly. Should you be interested in your local at Grace Cathedral, In California and Taylor, there are two labyrinths. One's outside and one's inside the cathedral, and it's a really wonderful experience going there and walking them. At any rate, what happens if it becomes dark on your path, if it becomes difficult? Well, Carl Jung said, the natural mind, natural mind, is the mind which absolutely... says absolutely straight and ruthless things to us. So our mind sometimes says straight and ruthless things. And sometimes we need to hear that. Often these deep events, dark events, can lead to benefits.

[24:03]

When shelter in place was declared, I was living here at Zen Center, and the director at that time, Michael McCord, said to me, you're at risk. And we were all at risk, but I was more at risk of such a thing because of my age. And he said, if you want to go to your place in West Marin, you're welcome to and we support you in doing so. So I went out there and I had this place for some time, but I'd never lived there continuously. And so I'm out there during the pandemic and I'm on Zoom every morning doing Zazen and going to classes and Dharma talks and what have you. But I started walking. Now, prior to that, I hardly ever walked. And this is not an exaggeration. That if I was here at Page and Laguna and I had to go over to Haight and Webster, I'd hop in my car and drive there.

[25:10]

And if I drove over there and there wasn't a place to park, I'm turning around and going back to Page and Laguna. Now, some people are thinking this is pretty bad. Well, so the darkness of the pandemic led me to Bellinas. And lo and behold, I started walking. And I walked four to six miles. Each and every day. Well, I was very fortunate because I had a beautiful place to do it in nature and some beaches and woods and trees and what have you. But that darkness, that problem of the pandemic led to that. Sometimes we feel lost on the path, confused and even desperate. Another example is I was a serious alcoholic. And when I say serious, literally I was a daily drunk.

[26:13]

And I was in great despair. And I was unhappy. I was getting no relief from my drinking. I could not not drink. And I didn't know what to do about it and how to deal with it. And I even went to the doctor to get a... physical to find out what was wrong with me because I was thinking I must have heart disease or cancer or something or other. Actually, I had a hangover on a daily basis. And the doctor said, give me bad news. He said, you're all right. And I didn't want to hear that. I was more willing to be seriously ill, although I was seriously ill, of alcoholism, but not with heart disease or not with cancer. And he said, have you ever thought of going to AA? And I said, no. And I didn't for two years. But out of that darkness, one night I'm sitting in a bar.

[27:19]

It's 3 a.m. in the morning. I knew the bartender, so we didn't have to quit at 2 a.m. And he's at one end and I'm at the other. And again, that voice came from within me. from what I consider my Buddha nature. And I said, hey, Eddie, I think I should go to AA. Now, I'd never been, and I didn't know what it was other than the doctor said I should go. And he looked up and he said, you know what, you're right. And then he said, when are you going to go? And I said, well, I'll go today. And I did, and that's now almost 33 years later. And so that darkness, that depth of despair and all the things that happened to me when I was a practicing alcoholic led me to a beautiful place of recovery. And it transformed my life. Abba David referred to this poem and told me about it.

[28:23]

And it's a poem called Lost by David Wagner. And it goes like this. Stand still. The trees ahead and bushes beside you are not lost. Wherever you are is called here. And you must treat it as a powerful stranger. You must ask permission to know it and be known. The forest breathes. Listen. It answers. I have made this place around you. If you leave it, you may come back again, saying here. No two trees are the same to Raven. No two branches are the same to Wren. If what a tree or a bush does is lost on you, you are surely lost. Stand still. In other words, be present.

[29:24]

Stand still. The forest knows where you are. You must let it find you. So on that path, when you're in that darkness and you think you're lost, stand still a moment and let that forest find you. Let that way find you. Out of the darkness can come light. So one way to honor these requests and these invitations that come forward when we're on the path is zazen. sitting still, standing here right now. It's not always direct. Often, sometimes an event may occur, but it's ordinary. It's really ordinary. It's not some glorious thing happening in the cosmos, necessarily. Celestial sounds or lights or miraculous miracles occurring. It happens right now, right here, right where you are in an ordinary mind, in an ordinary way.

[30:32]

In the koan, Nashun's ordinary mind is the way. Joshin asked Nashun, what is the way? Or he might say, what is the path? And Nashun says, ordinary mind is the way, or the Tao, or the path. Joshin then asked, shall I try to seek after it? And Nashans then said, if you try for it, you will become separated from it. So I mentioned Patricia Brown earlier who passed away a few weeks ago. And I'm indebted to her for what she led me to in a very simple way. As I alluded to, I had a very difficult time meditating. And literally for 40 years, I could not really handle it. I could not really do it. It didn't work like I thought it ought to or I wanted it to.

[31:35]

And one day, well, not just one day, but at a time, I thought, I really would like to take a vacation. I need a vacation for me. my work and what I was doing. And I didn't know what to do or where to go, but I'd been practicing some yoga and I thought maybe a yoga retreat would be a wonderful thing to do. So I went online and I found this place in Maine called Rolling Meadows Retreat. And it was run by Patricia Brown and her partner, Surya. And they both gave retreats in Maine, but also in different places. Now, I had never heard of them. I knew nothing about them. A little bit on the Internet. But they were giving a retreat called a yoga and meditation retreat in Tulum, in the Yucatan, at the bottom of the Yucatan Peninsula. And I didn't even know where Tulum was or anything about it.

[32:37]

But that invitation, that request, from within me said, that's the thing to go to. I mean, it wasn't consciously like that. I didn't say go, but I did. I signed up and I went. And so this was a week-long retreat and we would meditate each day. And I found out I could meditate. And the reason I could meditate was because it was very ordinary. It wasn't about this or that. It was like, be here, be now. And that's what Patricia somehow conveyed to me. And I was forever grateful for that. And I started meditating. And then I exclaimed to some friends, wow, what a wonderful thing. I'm meditating and I'm so excited. And they said, well, maybe you should go to San Francisco Buddhist Center. It was in the mission because they practiced there. And I took a course. And I started meditating.

[33:40]

I'd go there several times a week. And I was so excited. One time in an AA meeting, I said to a friend there, wow, I'm meditating. I really like it. And this friend said, well, you should come to San Francisco Zen Center on a Monday night. There's a meeting called Meditation and Recovery. And he said, you'll know people there. And sure. He said, I'll meet you there Monday night. So I went. So, you know, out of the darkness of my alcoholism, I got sober. I went to a meditation retreat, and it led me to the door of Zen Center 17 years ago. And when I walked in that door, I have not left. To the dismay, perhaps, of a few people. But you're stuck with me. Yeah, I practiced four years as a... Non-resident. And then I retired and I moved into Zen Center some 11, 12 years ago now.

[34:44]

And I've lived here and lived at Green Gulch and also at Tassajara. So Patricia led me to that because she made meditation ordinary. Not something that I thought it ought to be like that or like this or something. That ordinary mind that Nassan talked about. He went on. when he said, and he was speaking to Joshin, the way, the path, is not a matter of knowing or not knowing. Knowing is delusion. Not knowing is confusion. When you have really reached the true way beyond doubt, you will find it as vast, not just the small mind, but vast, the big mind and the small mind. also the big mind. You'll find a tranquil and constant mind unites large and small mind. Nashon continued, and boundless is outer space. Sojin Mel Weitzman said when speaking about ordinary mind, when we seek the extraordinary, we stumble past because we miss the truly extraordinary.

[35:59]

the request or the invitation right beneath our feet. We miss that. The truly extraordinary is found within the so-called ordinary. The beautiful gem is found within the lump of rock. The doorway of enlightenment, the gateless gate, is open right in front of us. But it is so obvious and ordinary that it is only visible to the selfless. Those open to and proactive on the path, this is now not Mel, but those open to and proactive on the path to what is right in front of us, what's beneath our feet. So Norman Fisher, another revered Zen teacher, his sangha is called Everyday Zen, which is his way of saying ordinary Zen. Norman said, the destination on the path is like the horizon, a place we can walk toward, a direction we can go in, but not a place where we arrive.

[37:16]

In the journey along the path toward the horizon, the only place we take steps is here, the ground on which we stand, the ordinary ground. So thank you all. We all have our paths and they interact and interrelate and we come and we go and we love and we have compassion for one another and we help one another along the way. So may you travel your path with love, compassion, and equanimity. Thank you. If you have a question, please raise your hand and I will bring the microphone over to you. Could you say something about your experience walking the labyrinth?

[38:38]

Like, does it change at different times? Is it calming? Do insights come up? How does that work for you? Thank you for the question, and nice to see you. We've walked a path in parallel with one another for several years, coming here at Zen Center. Regarding the labyrinth, there are a variety of ways in which one can... focus or walk the labyrinth. For example, you could make it just a simple, straightforward meditation, or you could have a question in mind, or you could walk it as a healing practice for yourself or for someone else. Also, in my 12-step work, I walk it oftentimes. Walking in is the first step and being in the center is the second step and coming back out the third step. So it's really one of the beautiful things about it.

[39:40]

There's no hard and fast rule. And as I was initially taught, if you step over the line or something, no big deal. So that's part of its beauty. I think that it's very flexible and adaptable to what one might want to use it for. I used it quite extensively as a healing thing. Well, I'll tell you a little story. So I had a health issue where every three months I had to go get a test. And, you know, I hope the tests were favorable and what have you. And one day I was striving to get the results of the test. And I said, what am I going to do if the test results are bad? I said, I know, I'll go walk the labyrinth.

[40:43]

But then... This again rose from what I now refer to as my Buddha nature. I said, what am I going to do if I get good results? And I said, I know. I'll go walk the labyrinth. So we can walk our paths in many ways in many different times. And I think the labyrinth does symbolize that. It's an incredible form of walking meditation. I like to also... sometimes sit in the center of the labyrinth and pray or meditate right there. Thank you for your question. Anyone else? Thank you, Roger. I'm wondering...

[41:45]

You mentioned when we're in the dark places, or when it's uncomfortable, or things are not going our way. You mentioned the importance of still being present right there. And that sounds very good. In practice, I find it very, very difficult. It's very uncomfortable. It's unpleasant in a way. But at the same time, the alternative is to run away from it. So I'm wondering when it's difficult to sit. Do you have any tips? How do you get through those moments while being present? Well, I agree with you. That's a difficult place to be. It's not comfortable. One of the ways is acknowledging what's going on and not running from it, as you mentioned.

[42:53]

Another way I think that is very important is being willing to be open and share it with others and express it, not looking to be fixed or cured, but willing to express it. And I find that very healing and very helpful. That's the beauty of sangha. That's the beauty of realizing we're walking a path and we're walking it together. So that's important. Also, not attaching to it as much as one can, but we all get caught up in it, but catching one's breath from time to time there. And the other thing is that invariably... There's almost always a gift somewhere within that darkness. And we don't see it always. And sometimes we don't realize it or experience it until maybe much later. But then we say, oh, oh my gosh, that really worked, helped me as difficult as it might have been.

[44:03]

So cultivating courage, through the help of others, and cultivating courage by practicing courage, really works. And still, it's difficult. Still, it's uncomfortable. To seek to be comfortable all the time is not realistic. That's where I'll get real dark or I'll get real euphoric. Thank you. We're going to miss you. You're leaving soon, right? Next week. Next week. OK. OK. May you go safely and well. Thank you. Is there another question?

[45:04]

Anybody online? just a quickie because this weekend I had the opportunity to walk a labyrinth out on the land and it was just simple stones arranged in a labyrinth. Pardon? It was just simple stones that were gathered from the surrounding area that were organized as a labyrinth. This was at Land's End? No, it was up in Medicino. Okay. Yeah, so I wondered Do you have plans to build your own labyrinth and your land up there? Well, interesting you asked, because I did that. My property in Bolinas built a labyrinth, the same design, called Medieval 11, same design as the one at Grace Cathedral.

[46:09]

There are... They're different designs for labyrinths? Very many different designs, yeah. There's the original. Right up here, Pierce and... What's that street at the hospital? Pardon? Right near DuBose? The DuBose Park. There is a labyrinth there, a small one, and that's the design that originated in Crete. And it looks a little different. It goes more like this. I don't know which one you walked, but it's more like this, et cetera. This one kind of goes around like that. And that was one of the original labyrinths. So then there's medieval 11s, which mean there's 11 circuits, and there's medieval 7s with 7 circuits. And then there's quite a labyrinth resurgence within...

[47:10]

Well, not only America, but especially. And there's a fellow up in, I can't remember where, Northern California that designs labyrinths that are totally unlike any of the traditional ones. And they're very, very beautiful. There's also a labyrinth at California Pacific Hospital on Buchanan. And I mentioned Land's End. There's one there with stones. Like you described, the people set out. So, yeah, and you can make your own. But, yeah, that was one of the reasons I was interested in having a place in West Marin was I wanted to build a labyrinth. You're welcome to come see it and walk it if you like. Thank you, Roger.

[48:20]

Okay. Okay. What were we going to just look about? May our intention equally expand to every meaning and voice. We are waiting there to check through the book, and we are at the end of the day [...] of I give what I have to do to them. Whether I live so in any discussions is about us as well. I give what I have to do to them. If a few people could stay behind and help us put the sound cloud back together, that would be nice to appreciate.

[50:59]

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