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Illuminating Zen: Dual Truths Awakened
Talk by Fu Schroeder Sangha Sessions Koun Ejo Gui Spina on 2024-01-21
The talk focuses on the Zen teaching of "Transmission of Light" by Kazon, exploring the concept of enlightenment as presented in the narrative of teacher and disciple encounters. It emphasizes the dual realization of ultimate truth and relative truth within Zen philosophy, stressing the symbolic use of koans to facilitate awakening. The discourse also reflects on Dogen Zenji's teachings and Ejo's enlightenment, illustrating these concepts with anecdotal experiences related to sensory perceptions and awareness.
Referenced Works and Concepts:
- "Transmission of Light" by Kazon: A central text in Zen literature, depicting enlightenment as a dynamic between teacher and student, translated by Thomas Cleary, which serves as a comprehensive manual for awakening by transcending sociocultural and individual distinctions.
- Dogen Zenji: His teachings are an essential part of the narrative, especially his perspectives on enlightenment, as demonstrated through the story of his disciple, Ejo.
- Koan of "One Hair Goes Through Myriad Holes": This koan serves as a metaphor for sudden enlightenment, featured in the transmission stories, and highlights the interplay of relative and ultimate truths.
- Two Truths Doctrine: A recurring philosophical notion within Zen, emphasizing the simultaneous existence and non-existence of separate realities, crucial for understanding Zen awakenings.
- Sense Organs and Skandhas: Discussed concerning how sensory perceptions create the illusion of duality, thus shaping experience and understanding in the Zen context.
This talk is of particular interest for those studying Zen methodologies of enlightenment and the role of sensory perception and conceptual understanding in Buddhist teachings.
AI Suggested Title: Illuminating Zen: Dual Truths Awakened
So the first part is the Koan case with this enlightened encounter between teacher and disciple. And then there's a brief biographical section that tells you about that student and where they grew up and what kind of family they came from. Sometimes they were in poverty. Sometimes they were from a noble family and well-educated and all different people from all different backgrounds. So we hear that from them. And then Kazon, who's the author of Transmission of Light, writes a commentary on the koan, the beginning story. And then at the end, he writes a verse summarizing the point of the story, which follows in the Zen tradition of understanding that is presented by the master and disciple relationship. This is really what Zen really did, which is really a big shift from the early teachings, was set up a conversation between a teacher and a student as the focal point of the tradition. So this transmission of light is really is the Zen story.
[01:10]
This is how it goes. You meet a living being and that living being works with you and helps you to come to a realization which they can then mirror that for you. They can provide some confirmation that, yeah, that sounds pretty good. That's as far as I got anyway. So this word light that's referred to in the title of Khe San's book is this very light. And it's whatever way you yourself think it is when it's expressed in these stories, the poetic stories of this collection. So Tom Cleary, who translated the particular copy of Transmission of Light that I've been using, there are other translations as well. I think Thomas Cook also translated Transmission of Light. Thomas Cleary says in his introduction to the text that the transmission of light is in reality a book of instruction on awakening.
[02:13]
It's like a cookbook for awakening. In which essential techniques for realization will reveal to you the transcendence of time. Think Uji. The transcendence of time, of history. of culture, of race, of gender, of personality, and of social class. Yeah, that's pretty good. If we can pull that off, that would be pretty good. Right there, that might be enough. Just get out of those blocks of thinking, of identification that keep us separate from one another. So this real is the ultimate truth that the world and our suffering are of the nature of an illusion. And at the very same time, the relative truth, including the power that those illusions have to change our lives, you know, to make our lives spin. So with this dual realization of the ultimate truth and the relative truth, these two truths, which you've heard about over and over again, because that's about all that anybody's talking about, as far as I can tell, it's the two truths.
[03:21]
There they are again. I asked Reb that this morning. It's just the two truths, right? He said, yeah, yeah. But we all kind of decorate it differently. Otherwise, as one teacher said, if I just keep saying the same thing, like two truths, two truths, there will be grass growing at the monastery gate. No one will come here. So we have to kind of put on a top hat and dance a little bit and try to make it interesting because it's important. It's so important. And yet it's not that complicated. It's just understanding it, I think, is accessible fairly quickly to most people. Experiencing it, that's the part. That's the part. You've got to get in the cold water to know what it means. The word cold water means you've got to actually have some body, some embodied experience. So within this dual realization of the two truths, of the ultimate truth and the relative truth, is where the bodhisattva vow arises. It arises out of that confluence of these two truths.
[04:21]
And basically... even though we see that it's an illusion, that our separation is an illusion and that we really are free, we've always been free, we vow to remain as inhabitants of the illusory world within which we will do our very best to make amends for our own behavior in the past and to help others to have their own realization and to make amends for themselves. So that's kind of what we're doing. So in Zen, the transmission of light is at the core of our identity. That would be, as most of you know, the Han, as I said... on right now, and folks are sitting quite a lot during the day, as we do. So there's Zazen, and then that's followed by more Zazen, which is followed by more Zazen, and then there's a meal now and then, and then more Zazen. So right now, tomorrow, begins the five-day Sashin.
[05:25]
So there will be a lot of sitting for the folks here. So Dogen has this to say about, you know, this awakening, this So he's talking about these transmission of light, the awakening of these various ancestors. As each of them attained escape from the shelf walls, they were unencumbered by previous views and understandings, and what had long been unclear suddenly becomes apparent. So for this class, I'm going to turn to the last story Kazon tells in the transmission of light. This is the story of Koan Ejo. which begins, as do all the other stories, with Ejo's awakening experience, which he is then sharing with his teacher, Dogen Zenji. So Keisan spent pretty much his entire adult life attending Dogen Zenji, I think over 20 years.
[06:31]
He was one of his first disciples. He came to him when he was living alone, before he'd established a Heiji. He went with him to a Heiji. He was already well-educated in the Dharma. He'd studied Pure Land. He'd studied at Mount Hiei, the Tendai teachings. He had all of that kind of background. And when he first met Dogen, he was not that impressed. He thought, yeah, he agrees with almost everything I already understand. So he was basically confirming his understanding for several days as he met with Dogen privately. And then at some point, he started to disagree with Dogen. But then he realized that what Dogen was telling him was really more, was deeper, was more in line with some real, you know, liberative. The liberative aspect of Dogen's teaching was really clear to Koan Ejo. And so he basically devoted his life...
[07:33]
to this person who he felt really had profound insight and understanding. Which has been, you know, I think centuries have agreed with Ajo. Yeah, we think you caught a good one. This is a very good insight you had to spend your days and devote your time to caring for Dogen Zenji. So the story goes, starts with, Ejo studied with Zen Master Dogen. One day in the course of inquiries, he heard the saying, one hair goes through myriad holes. One hair goes through myriad holes. And all of a sudden, he realized enlightenment. So there's the koan that Ejo, after all these years of study, he hears this one line and he wakes up. One hair goes through myriad holes. So he takes this experience he's had to Dogen. In the evening, he says to Dogen, I do not ask about the one hair, but what about the myriad holes?
[08:41]
And Dogen smiles and says, gone through. And Ejo bows. So one hair goes through myriad holes, sudden realization. Ejo takes that to Dogen. I don't ask about the one hair, but what about the myriad holes? And Dogen smiles and says, gone through. So that's the koan. And given that I'm planning on looking at koans with you in the weeks and months ahead, in particular those that are shared and are commented on by Suzuki Roshi, I was wondering if any of you might want to take a little stab at what this koan is. talking about i promise you anyway uh so what do you think what can you see the two truths and you can can you perhaps say something about how it strikes you this is to his that's a classic zen question too what about you so is anyone like to take a jump
[09:58]
Make a leap. All right. Great. Marianne, please. Well, the minute you said it, I pictured the fact that I'm sitting next to a table and it's very solid. But it's not. You know, we know that the physical, you know, the molecules, the electrons, the neurons, the protons, they're more holes than substance. And so the fact that there are holes, of course, the hair can go through many holes. That's, it just came to me when, when you said that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think the physicists would, would join you in that. Absolutely. It's like, We don't know how any of this stuff is, you know, why can't I put my hand through it?
[11:00]
It's more holes than anything else. So are we. We're more holes than we are anything else, yeah. Yeah, so the image just came to me. Yeah, that's good. That's good. I think that's very, very much in line. I think what physicists are doing is very much in line with the meditators and what they came to observe just in watching their minds, watching how their minds create this solidity. And then, you know, A bell rings. What happened to that solidity? What happened to that thought I was just having? Gone through. Gone through. Gone through. Without any interference. Right. Right. It's kind of fascinating. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Kosan. Hello, Fusensei. Hello, everybody. The idea that arose for me, and I had read the chapter earlier in the day, and I reread Dogen's chapter, but the idea that arose for me right when you spoke it was the myriad gates.
[12:08]
So just in a sense, perhaps, there's so many gates into the Dharma that And perhaps something around like the relative truth of a single hair goes through the myriad gates or something in there that there's just so many ways to approach and there's equal to the number of observers. Like in quantum physics, there are that many different perspectives and each of those is a gate in any single moment. Something around that. yeah yeah words words we'll never reach it but we keep trying you know it's really and I like your try that's really good physics you've got the Dharma gates are boundless right great thank you hi Fu hello Sangha
[13:15]
what a challenge, I would say. My, as far as I would know, I would think of it as with that piercing through, right, with I love, I guess I would take the Hangzhou approach above the grass field tips in the field. You would feel as though there's no question that it pierces through all holes. But when we return to the marketplace, what is thus? How do we still attend to it? He didn't ask of the single hair. It's gone through, but still, what now, right? What now? Yeah, now you're free. What now? Go through. I pass through all the barriers. Yeah, as Ru Jing would say, we'll drop that.
[14:20]
Okay, that's fine. What I love is go wash your face. Go wash your face, yeah. That's right. Go get a job. Or for me, go make dinner. Go make the bed. That's right. You've had a cup of tea, now go wash your bowls. So there is that. Don't get any stuck. It wouldn't pass through, right? Gone through with you. Why didn't go through? I got stuck right there at awakening. Yeah. Wouldn't that be a shame? Exactly. I think that's one of the dangers that they talk about, you know, getting kind of frozen in some Zen stupor. And in the question, right, is that the the moment of awakening is not a moment of answer. became a moment of question which is right we we don't return from it uh with all of the answers right i maybe i have a piece of it but something's always missing what about what about the myriad holes right right and doggen smiles good boy good boy oh go back to sitting zaza and we need another right come back to your seat
[15:42]
Yeah, go back to the kitchen. That's what I like about Soto Zen, at least as much as I know of. It's all I know, so I can't really say much other than I like it. So I like Soto Zen, but I think part of what I like about it is the sort of teaching of, go back to the kitchen. Okay, that's nice. Yes. You're enlightened, great. Now, could you go help the cook with the noon meal? You know, we're really behind. It was a boy who goes gets the pickles. Oh, yes, yes. He said, what, what? The pickles. And then the boy runs out. Give it to me. Give it to me in the shopkeeper. He says, what? And he says, my hat. And he said, it's on your head. So we're so sincere in our effort to understand. That's the best thing about us, really, is how sincere we are with our questions. Answers aren't that interesting. No. Answers are... They make us too liable to think we actually got a hold of something, right?
[16:44]
Yeah, I know. I know sometimes I tell my partner something I said to somebody, and then she'll say to me, well, what did they say? And I say, I don't know. I don't know. Thank you, Guy. Thank you. Millicent. Hi, Phu. Hi, Phu. Nice to see you again. And you, Phu. I feel quite brave sticking my hand up, but it's a bit of fun, isn't it? It seems to me that there are 24 holes present right now. According to the... There are 24 different separate coals all over the world present right now.
[17:44]
And the one hair goes through. That's lovely. I think that's all I've got to say. I do love it, though, this encounter where Kazan got it. But she winked to Dogen and said, there's nothing I can say about the one hair, let's face it, but what about this myriad hole? Yes, yes. And Dogen said, it's okay, don't worry. Sorry, the hair's got you. There it is right there. Lots of them. That's lovely. Thank you, Melissa. Enjoy your summer. Oh, indeed. Cinco, if I may call you then. Yes, yes.
[18:49]
Thank you. Yeah, thinking about the needle and what comes up to me is how Zen has helped me in my life because my approach in my life is to face something and kind of like... like head on and fight and force through, you know, my way. But like this needle, so the hose is how I'm learning now. It's like never force it, work with it. So like the hose and all the flexibility of mind, I think it's just like amazing. It's really helping me. That makes me feel like that because my habitual is to not go through, but I like force, push. The make holes. Yeah. I need to remember that sentence. Yeah. It's really helpful. Thank you. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Fittings to the family, please. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Great. Wonderful.
[19:50]
That was fun. We'll do that some more. I got a whole bunch of coins coming for you. All right. Let's see what else I got here. So. Okay, so here's some ideas that I wrote in the margin of my text. Sometimes I write in my books. I know that's evil, but it's so helpful later because I go back there and go, oh, that's great. I'm glad I captured all those different little things because we've studied these texts over the years as a group. Our folks who were ordained with Reb have spent many, many years at the table talking with him about stories, and Transmission of Light was one of the texts that we looked at together. So some of the things I wrote in the margins of this final story, one of them is that this thing that we call experience is the five skandhas. So experience is about our sensory relationship to the world. And by design, our sensory relationship to the world is dualistic.
[20:56]
You know, eyes that see objects, ears that hear objects. A nose that smells objects and so on. A body that feels objects, you know. And a mind that thinks about objects. So this is the design, you know. I don't know if it's an intelligent design or not. Maybe, but not very. It could be more intelligent than it is. So those objects are what we call phenomena. Things that can be sensed. You know, we have these six. In Buddhism, there are six sense organs. The five senses. Ones that you know since you were a child. And then the sixth one is the mind organ. That the object of the mind organ are thoughts. So for eyes, you got things you see. For ears, things you hear and so on. And for the mind, thoughts. Okay? So the sixth sense consciousness. That's all we know. We don't know anything else. We don't have any other access channels. That's it. That's it.
[21:56]
So... And those objects that we call phenomena lead us to believe that there's evidence for something being outside of ourselves based on our sense organs. Well, it's obvious, right? When we begin to study that evidence as good Dharma students, we realize that our awareness and those objects of awareness arise together at the same time. Of course, they have to. So this is where reasoning or thinking helps us. They're not separable. We can't separate hearing from sound or eyes from what's seen or the nose from what's smell. It doesn't make any sense. I don't need a nose if there's nothing to smell. I don't need ears if there's nothing to hear and so on. So they're a set. Each one of these is a set, inseparable. We have to think about that. They are dependently coerisen. That's where that term comes in. Dependently core rising all together now.
[22:57]
All of our senses come up together at the same time with the world that we then imagine to be. It's funny stuff. So if there were no eyes, there would be no visual objects, no ears, no sound, no tongue, no taste, no body. There'd be no touch. If there was no mind, there would be no objects of mind, no thoughts. If there was no me, there'd be no you. No hair, there would be no myriad holes, and no gone through. So as Dogen says, the whole and the parts are never apart from one, right where one is. So the hair is the present moment. The present moment is gone through. All the myriad holes are penetrated by the present moment. That's where we live. That's how everything happens, is in the present moment. That's the hair that's passing through whatever you want to call it, time or being, time being.
[23:59]
That hair is present moment, present moment, present moment. So it's a good idea, but a good idea it is for us to study our parts, the myriad wholes, as the hair is passing through. Each moment of sound or sight or whatever, each one of those is the present moment. And I was thinking, Rebson talking about this a lot during the intensive, this thusness. Thusness is a shorthand for just this is it, right now, all of it, all together, happening, this is it, present moment. It's all we ever have, all we ever will have, and so on. And we forget that. Why? Because we think of other things. We think of the past. We think of the future. And we dream. We are dreamwalkers, as Dogen says. Such dreamwalkers we humans have become. This business of trying to understand how our sense organs are creating this illusion or delusion of our separation.
[24:59]
I read this really amazing article. You may have read it as well. I think it was in New York Times. It might have been The New Yorker because it's really long. I haven't finished it yet. But it's about this man who was given his eyesight after most of his life being almost completely blind. I mean, he had very little light vision. That was all barely light vision. But what happened is it turned out he had cataracts from when he was a child, and it wasn't a very complicated surgery to take the cataracts away. And when they did, his sight was restored. So then, as the article is saying, a lot of times we think, oh, well, then they took off the bandages, and he looked up, and he's like, oh, I can see. Well, that wasn't like that. So what happened? They took off the bandages. And he was just staring straight ahead. And they're all sort of excited, thinking he's going to go, oh, hi, Mom. And instead, he's just staring. And later on, he said that what he saw was just this swirl, kind of like my background, just this swirl of images, of colors.
[26:05]
There was nothing, absolutely nothing he could understand about what was presenting to his eyes. And then this blob of swirling colors said, hello, how are you? And then that's when he realized that that blob of swirling colors was a human face. And little by little, over now a period of time has gone by, they've been in discussion with him about this experience, he's having to be trained to see. He's going to have to learn about, he knows very well what a square is and what a circle is and what a triangle is by his hands, by touching. He has concepts for those that have to do with his sense of touch. He has no idea what they are with his sense of visual sense. So I found that really interesting. You know, sort of like I presume that my sight is just there. It's just I was born and then I could see, you know. But I think we all know. I mean, certainly we've read that babies are just in that blur of like, what is this?
[27:10]
You know, and mommy keeps saying. Oh, hi, baby. You know, they keep bringing us out from that blur into some kind of organized or meaningful sense of what's going on here, although it's really taught to us. So I also think I told you that, as I mentioned, I went to see my sister on her birthday last week. She's 80 now and mother of many children and many grandchildren and great-grandchildren now. So I have relatives, many relatives, thanks to my... my dear sister. And she's also been blind pretty much since birth. And I found it really interesting. I think part of my fascination with Zen and with what's going on here has to do with my curiosity about she can't see. What does that mean? What does that mean she can't see? How does she know the world? How does she know anything? You know, so I think I may have told you too that when I was young, I probably was eight or nine, I asked her, if it was dark, being blind.
[28:12]
And she said, no, it's not dark. She said, try to imagine seeing the world with your feet. And as I told my teachers years ago, I said, I think that was my first koan. How do you see the world with your feet or your elbow, you know? So it's not dark. It's not dark. It's something else beyond our ability to perhaps comprehend. Some vastness. So sight limits that vastness. I don't have her hearing. My sister knows the voices of everybody in the room. In fact, she's got really acute hearing. She used to be able to find me. I tried to hide from her, and she could always say, I can hear you breathing. She wasn't kidding. So she has this very... advanced her other senses I was watching her at her birthday party and watching her hands I was sitting next to her and they're just exquisite they're like these tactile she just everything she touches you can just tell that her fingertips are like her eyes that's how she sees is by touching you know if we first meet her she asks if it's okay if she touches your face you know
[29:28]
And then she'll say something really complimentary. Oh, what a nice face you have. That's so sweet. She really has no visual preferences. Everybody has a nice face. My sister. So anyway, these koans that come to us in everyday, in all kinds of situations, are really helpful to us in kind of reconsidering what we assume to be so. So the point of this digression about sense organs is the realization is that realization itself is also a phenomenon. And that was a little shocking when I read that. It was in one of my notes in the book, and I thought, oh, I forgot about that. Realization is a phenomenon. It's something that we experience. You know, a Buddha is a phenomenon, which is evidenced by such things as compassion and wisdom and generosity and energy. And so on.
[30:30]
So that's how we know a Buddha. We know it with our senses. We can sense it. And it's also evidenced in this particular school of Zen by paying careful attention to details. So that's the hallmark of this school is memitsu no kafu. It's called attention to fine detail. So that's one of the ways that we realize phenomena is by taking great care of them. That's how we express our understanding. is by caring for things in this world, in the myriad holes. So the evidence for our attachment, on the other hand, is what we call birth and death. And the suffering that arises through the desire that we have for this life of moments to never end. That's very sad that we think that, but we do. We really want to hold back the river. We want to stop the rain. We want to make things last forever. particularly ourselves, although I think we've thinked that through.
[31:32]
We really don't want to do that. So the hair in this koan is referring to the true nature of reality, which is all-inclusive and is the present moment. The present moment is all-inclusive. It looks like it for me as well. Yeah, she's frozen. Yeah. In the present moment. For the time being. The time being. Let me see. Looks like she's going out, maybe coming back in.
[32:40]
Yes. Agreed. I just went in that other world where none of you were there. That was your parting, right? Gone through. I only have one sentence left too. Here it is. Let me get to my final, my grand finale. So awakening is from the dream of your own position as separate from all others. The vastness or the hair that passes through the myriad holes is silently present in each phenomena as it appears within the wholeness of reality. Here we go. The end. Oh, I did want to just briefly, we have a little time. read you a little bit of Ejo's final chapter. It gets even more interesting at the end because it seems like, okay, the two truths, that's really helpful.
[33:47]
And now we have the myriad things and we have the hair. And so we're all kind of like feels like we're back home where we belong. But then he says, now tell me, what is this principle? This is Kazon. I've already told you that space has never admitted so much as a needle. In the vastness, there is nothing to rely on. Who is there to discuss it? So this is going back to the emptiness side. When you arrive at this room... Fu, are you there? You've frozen again. We'll go ahead and read what she was reading until she gets back. Space has never admitted even a needle. In the vastness, there is nothing to rely on. So who is there to discuss it? Do not say one hair goes through myriad holes.
[34:51]
The bare, clean ground hasn't a trace. So maybe someone can come up with something for that and be ready for when she gets back. No, I'm back. That was great. No, yes. Thank you, Dean. That's right. Nevertheless, there is something that myriad things cannot hide, and even when everything is done away with, there is still something that you cannot get rid of. Isn't that a good thing to know? It stands out clearly of itself, empty and open. It is fundamentally, radiantly aware. Awareness itself, right? Buddha, awake. That's what's left over when everything else falls away. And therefore, it's called clean and naked, bare and free. It is also called being clearly awake, everything obvious. And it is called radiant brightness. There is not a trace of doubt or thought, nor any floating dust at all.
[35:52]
It is brighter even than a billion suns and moons. But you cannot call it white. You can't call it red. It's like waking up from a dream. It is only alive and active. We call this living. To be awake means having awakened and being alert. Being clear means being bright and lucid. You should not say that there is no inside or outside. You should not say that it extends to the past or reaches the present. So do not say that one hair goes through myriad holes. What going through could there be? If you call it a hair, this is what Ejo already realized. Then what is the substance of that hair? Space is never admitted, even a needle. In the vastness, there is nothing to rely on. So who is there to discuss it? Do not say one hair goes through myriad holes. The bare, clean ground hasn't a trace. Yay. That's our Zen thing. That's our story.
[36:52]
So I'm really happy to hear more from any of you who'd like to share with the time we have. Guy, please. may vanish again so don't be surprised you know i um i really appreciated that in the uh in the transmission of light how it we're constantly reminded that we're uh i think the way guogu put it you were using poison to cure poison right or uh we're using a needle to to take up thorn and to not remember right you you have a needle in your hand right remember that what do you mean what you know what single hair what what what are we talking about let's uh let's go have some tea right remember remember yeah yeah yeah it's it's it's wonderful it's sort of like you know go wash your face exactly i gotta wash your face go wash your face embarrassing
[37:56]
I said to Reb, he has had some injury to his leg. And so he's had some little difficulty walking, although he's doing very well. I mean, I'm appreciating his effort to not have any kind of a limp or anything. But I asked him how it was. You know, how is it getting old and losing? You know, I mean, well, I should ask myself that. But, well, how is it? And he said, it's embarrassing. I thought, yeah, it's embarrassing. So that's our human. That's our human. You gotta love it. Doing our best, right? Doing our best. Limping along. Thank you. Thank you. Kosan! Hello, yes. I wanted to add... I bet I'm going to check out here again. I came to... I'm on... Yeah, nice.
[38:57]
Cosine, are you... I can hear you. Is everyone frozen? I think I'm frozen. Oh. We can hear you, but it seems like you can't hear us. A message from emptiness. A lot of times it can help if you turn the video off because then it's less bandwidth. And then... Does that help? I think... My guess is that I'm... Can you hear me, Gi? I can see you on the screen. We can hear you. Okay. Well, I'll just share what I was saying then, which is that I had a friend who went mostly deaf in her 20s, and later they developed a surgery that implanted... a chip into her ear and gave her some feedback of sound piercing through whatever it is that was preventing her from hearing.
[40:07]
And she said for the first few months, she, she, while she heard was robot sounds, like she heard things as a computer would be giving it to her because that's what was happening. There was a computer. And over time she, her memories of what things sounded like started to attach to those electronic robot-y sounds and converted. So then she reattained the fullness of the hearing that she had had before she'd lost her ability to hear, in part because she had this stored memory of what things sounded like. And I thought, oh, it's so interesting to... have gone through life perhaps never having seen or never having heard and then suddenly be given that new channel? And what would it be like? And you would never know that it's different. And we don't know that it's different.
[41:08]
You know, what I hear might not be what you hear, and we'll never know, right? And she might never have known that what she was hearing were these artificial sounds, but it sounded like... whatever, you know? So anyway, thank you, Sangha. I just wanted to share that. Well, I invite you all to keep going. I think I'm going to basically, uh, excuse myself because I think my internet's just not going to hold. So, um, although I think if I go away again, don't you keep talking even though I'm gone? Is it still working? Wow, that's great. Okay, you go on talking if I disappear again. And, yeah. Go ahead. Keep talking. I'll listen. I think Karina has to hold open the room. I know. It's sad but true, Fu. Right.
[42:09]
Even when you disappear. Yeah. So I don't want to impose further upon yours in green this time. Oh, it's not. Oh, that's okay. It's a little after six anyway. So I'm so sorry. I hope next week is better. I'll complain to somebody. Well, it's raining and stormy and it's green. Oh, is that it? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So the convenience of modern equipment. How could we complain? I mean, this is a miracle. It's just amazing. I love that we can be together in this way. Anyway, I'm going to say goodnight. It was lovely to see all of you. I'm already frozen again, aren't I? Oh, God. Yes. Yes, you are. Yes, you are, but it's okay. We know you're there. Yes, we know you're there. Goodnight, Sangha. Thank you. Goodnight, everyone. Goodnight, everyone. Goodnight, take good care. And congratulations. Goodnight, everyone.
[43:09]
Great, congratulations. Those were beautiful photos there. Good night, everyone. Good night.
[43:21]
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@Score_93.74