This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good evening, everyone. I think the last time I was sitting up here, I started in a rush and forgot to introduce myself. So maybe tonight I'll remember to do that. My name is Mary. I'm a resident of City Center, and most recently my job is that of Tonto. And when David invited me to give this talk, he suggested that I might introduce myself to the community sort of in a little bit of a way-seeking mind talk, a little bit of a what does the Tonto do all the time, and also as a first talk of the new year talk so I thought I'd try to blend those into some sort of thing tonight so thank you for all participating in this with me we were on the roof yesterday morning um

[01:30]

It was a beautiful day. We were gathered toasting the new year and I was thinking about the idea of sangha and what that has become to me, what that idea has grown in me, how that idea has grown in me. I think about this time last year, I had the idea that I was leaving Zen Center as kind of a permanent thing after about 10 years of living here. And then things really changed for me. And I decided to come back. And that was not a small decision. And I think it's a decision that all of us residents or even practitioners of Buddhism have to make over and over again is how we commit ourselves to practice, what our practice looks like, what form does it take, how we welcome the teachings of the Buddha into our lives, how we welcome the Sangha into our lives.

[02:52]

I think that's a rolling conversation that happens over and over and over again. And it's kind of mysterious, actually, how that happens. I was born in a prairie town in Canada. My parents were not exactly religious, but not exactly not religious. And I use those words kind of carefully because we went to church every Sunday. it was an important part, certainly, of their lives. And yet, I would say they held it loosely. It was something that parents did with families. Community was very important at the church. And I think it provided some stability for them as parents to go to this place that other families were going to and sharing beliefs.

[03:56]

And... having community. So for them, community was important. And I grew up in a family where getting an education was not questioned. So I imagined as I was growing up that I would go to university and that I would get... as much education as I could possibly imagine getting, and do that in a very formal way, and be successful. I think that was something that we didn't even talk about so much. It was just the idea that as a family we had. So I did... quite well in grade school and went on to university where I studied history and I did an honors history degree and then I started doing a master's degree in medieval history where I studied primarily the Catholic Church and monasticism in the 9th century.

[05:19]

And I was a very disciplined and diligent student. I studied Latin. I studied French. I wrote exams. I wrote papers. I imagined that I would finish my master's and I was teaching at a continuing education through the university. I taught Anglo-Saxon history and my life was on a certain trajectory that involved going on to do a PhD in England, which I had applied for and was accepted to do. And it was, I was a teaching assistant, I was totally involved. And I don't think I really questioned that trajectory. In my final year, when I had almost completed my thesis, I spent some time in another city in Canada where I did four months of Latin in order to be able to study the primary documents.

[06:40]

And in the process of being there for the summer and knowing very few people, I joined the rowing and I started rowing and I started rowing more and I started I joined a crew and we practiced together and we would row in the mornings and I loved it I loved the idea of using my body in that way and studying Latin during the day And when I returned to the university that fall to complete my thesis, I mentioned to my advisor that I wanted to join the rowing club at the university. And he freaked out. He kind of went on this tirade in his office and said that I couldn't possibly do that, that I needed to be serious,

[07:48]

that I needed to spend all my time writing and finishing the thesis and then getting on to Birmingham to start my PhD, and that serious students didn't do anything but study. And I would say that that was one of those moments that changed my life. Because I started looking around the department, that I had so actively been participating in and living in. And I started realizing that teachers were sleeping with students. A lot of teachers were drinking. A lot of the other graduate students had drinking problems or substance problems. A lot of people were doing things that were totally... outside of my comfort zone.

[08:51]

And I remember right almost exactly at that point, I went to a party of a friend, and there was a mutual friend who was talking about his job. And his job was as a carpenter. And when he talked about his work... it was like he glowed. And he was able to get everybody in the whole room excited about the project he was on. And he talked about the love he had for this. And I remember thinking, I want to do something that I feel like that when I do. So I found out where he worked, and over the next three months, I began a campaign of harassment where I would show up and ask them if they would give me a job.

[10:03]

And at first, they were like, no, you don't have any qualifications. You're kind of old to be a carpenter. You're a woman. So that was kind of the beginning. And then I kept going and presenting myself and presenting myself and saying, I'm really, I want to do this. And I went back many times. And then finally one of the owners said, oh, for God's sake, go to my house. I'm finishing building the forms for a sidewalk. If you can do that, then I'll think about it. So I didn't even have a clue what he was talking about. And I went to his house. And I figured out what they'd started, and I proceeded to do my best to finish the sidewalk. And Jamie came home from work that day and looked at what I had done and looked at me, and he said, you're serious, aren't you?

[11:05]

And I said, yes, I am. So the next day, I went to my advisor at the university. And I said, I'm dropping out. And he looked at me and he said, that will be the worst decision you'll make in your entire life. And I said, well, I don't think so. So I stopped that day and I got a job working as an apprentice carpenter. And one of the reasons why I'm going on about this a little bit is the apprenticeship system in Canada is very regulated. So you get a job with a company and they sponsor you to become an apprentice.

[12:11]

You work for 10 months a year. and you go to school for two months a year, and you do that for four years. And at the end of each of those years, you write an exam, and that allows you to move on to the next stage. And you start out doing the absolute worst work. I think I was crawling under dirty basements for about ten months. The next year, you start handling the tools and doing a little bit of the... preparing work for the journeyman. The next year, a little bit more responsibility. The final year, a little more responsibility, and then there's an exam. And it takes time, actually. It takes patience. It takes some forbearance. It's not a fast process. You don't necessarily get super pay while you're doing it. There's no magic in it.

[13:14]

I remember years later I was teaching a class to people who wanted to learn how to build things, and one of the participants said, so what are the tricks? And I said, 17 years of practice. And she was so disappointed that I couldn't tell her in an afternoon what I had learned in 17 years of working as a carpenter. So the apprenticeship system for me was amazing because what I wanted as a carpenter was to be a good carpenter. I didn't want to be slick. I didn't want to be able to do the same thing over and over and over again. I wanted to be a good carpenter. And I worked for many, many different organizations doing many different kinds of work. And often I would work... exclusively with men.

[14:17]

Some of them were amazing teachers. Some of them were very impatient, nasty people. And from each of those individuals, I learned something. And I feel very grateful that I went through a system called the apprenticeship system. because it has allowed me to understand Zen practice in a way that I think many people don't understand this practice. This is not a fast road. This is exploration of oneself through the dirt, crawling in the bottom of basements, asking people for help. I was talking to... friend of mine, and he said his experience with Zen was, there's a Zafu, there's a wall, I'll talk to you in two years.

[15:20]

And there is something of that in this practice. There is this idea that time brings something to the fore. One of the one of the meanings that I've heard for sangha, one of the translations of sangha is pounded together. And I think that that feeling, that translation has resonated with me as a result of the years that I've spent living in different communities. So I wanted to say a bit about that. So I worked as a carpenter for many years. And then an event happened in my life.

[16:26]

And that event was the fact that one of my sisters killed herself. And that was the moment that, from that point on, many things in my life no longer made sense. And I started not talking, I would say. And I, after changing jobs and losing a relationship and moving cities, I realized that I needed something. And a friend of mine mentioned a residential Buddhist community. So I applied to go there, and that residential community happened to be Gampo Abbey in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia. And I wrote asking if I could go there, and part of my bargaining chip at the time was that I was a carpenter.

[17:34]

And generally, at practice centers, If you have trade skills, they don't say no. So I was accepted to go to Gampo Abbey. And I lived there for a year, about, just under a year. And while I was there, a woman who some of you know, Jakku Kinst, came and was co-leading a Datun with two other women, one of... Pema Chodron, and a woman named Trimo Lamo. So I met those two women. Well, I hadn't met Jakku before. And during that month-long program, Jakku said, you seem to sort of like Buddhist communities. And I said, yeah, I'm kind of interested. And she said, if I were you, I would see about Tassajara.

[18:37]

So my conversations with her got me curious enough that I applied to go to Tassajara, and I wrote to Keith, and I said I would very much like to come and spend a summer, and I have some carpentry skills. So he wrote back within about a week, and I found myself at Tassajara. And I practiced... at San Francisco Zen Center for a year, starting in 2000. And then I returned to Canada. Three years later, I spent almost, well, about a half a summer at Tassajara, and then I went to live in a Dharma Center in France for a year and a half, and then another Dharma Center in Germany for a year and a half.

[19:40]

And then I returned to Canada for three years, about three years. And while I was in Canada, I worked as a carpenter and I took the basic clinical pastoral education level through a hospital where I worked with, I was on the spinal unit and one of the oncology units. visiting patients and talking to staff. And through that process, one of the things that became very clear to me was that when you walk into a room with people and they understand that you're a priest, something happens. and you can explain to them that you're a student chaplain and that you meditate, you're a Buddhist, but the idea that they're talking to a priest transcends most other religious designations.

[20:55]

And so as a result of that training, I decided and requested to come back to San Francisco Zen Center to Ordain. And I returned in 2009. I lived a year at Green Gulch. Then I went to Tassajara and lived three years there. I returned to Canada to spend some time with my parents. And then I came back to San Francisco Zen Center in May of 2013. I became Steve Stuckey's Jisha and then his assistant. And on September 28th of that year, he was diagnosed with stage four pancreatic cancer. And on October 6th, I offered to his wife to help them in any way that I could.

[22:02]

And the shape of that became that I lived with them until Steve's death. And it was Lane and Steve and I in the house. And I was sort of the gatekeeper, actually, for that time. And Lane took the evening shift and afternoon shift, and I took the morning shift. So my mother was sick at the same time, and she died on the 8th of December, and Steve died on the 31st of December. I came back to San Francisco Zen Center here and became Linda Ruth's assistant, central assistant. I did that, and then I became...

[23:05]

the Tanto, or the Tenzo for a few months. And then I went to Tassahara again to do a Shuso practice period. And then I returned to City Center to be the director for two and a half years. So part of my desire this evening was to say that one can get into Zen Center and a world of training opens. And it can be surprising, actually. I became Fugaten at Tassajara with very little kitchen experience. The next summer I was guest cook, and the summer following I became Tenzo. And I did that for a year. I don't have formal kitchen training. And in terms of Zen training, it was unbelievable for me.

[24:12]

And this is something that I wish for every single person in this Buddha hall, is to have the experience of Zen training, to open yourself up to what that looks like, however that looks, to say yes to this form of training. It is not intellectual training, actually. It is not something that we can easily give you or me a certificate around. It is not something that's prescribed by somebody else. The path that one takes in this training is often mysterious, sometimes halting, sometimes surprising.

[25:16]

And yet we are all doing this thing, often together, and often wondering what we're doing. And it unfolds as it unfolds. And opportunities unfold. that we never imagined are presented to us because at that moment the needs of the temple match our own needs. So as Tonto, part of my job is to encourage the idea of practice in each person in the temple and to be able to help people recognize when there is an opportunity What is that opportunity? What does it look like? What is practice? What is practice for each of us? Because each of us has a different looking practice.

[26:18]

How can we believe that something that's so uncharted, so not recognized by anybody outside of these walls, how can we believe that that's... us, that it's effective, that it's worthwhile. I think it's very, when I would cross the border, that one of the first times that I was coming back to actually remain here and study, the fellow that was questioning me said, well, what do you get? And I was like, I don't know, you know, I'll take some classes. I do a lot of sitting. And he's like, do you get a, like, certificate?

[27:24]

You know, and when you're talking to an official and he has 100% discretionary power, on whether you can enter a country or not. It's very nervous-making. And to not be able to say, like, well, I don't know. Anyway, I got rejected. So I had to turn around. And it took about a week of making a case for what was going on at San Francisco Zen Center so I could come back in the country. It's... This is no small thing, you know, to come here to say to somebody else, parents, friends, loved one, spouse, siblings, siblings, what it is we're up to. And I think what I believe to be true is that from when I first started practicing,

[28:32]

in 1999 to now, I am here for myself. I remember writing on a piece of paper before I arrived at Ganpo Abbey two things. I want to stop. I need to be more solid for myself. And I kept that with me in my wallet for a number of years. Because the life that I was leading, although it was a wonderful life in many respects, it was a life that I couldn't relate to anymore after my sister killed herself.

[29:35]

I no longer believed in owning a house, having two cars, having a dog, having a picket fence, having grass to mow, having that life. I just couldn't believe in that life anymore. I didn't know what exactly I wanted or needed. And I wasn't even, I think when I first asked to go to Gampo Abbey, I asked if I could stay for two months. And then that extended and it extended. And when I was asked to be Tonto this time, I did a wild thing and I committed to two years. Which for me actually... It feels like a lifetime. And I feel like that's about as in as I can get two years.

[30:47]

Although now I've been here for ten. And so I'm still edging towards what it means to be... what it means to be more solid for myself what it means to be a presence for other people these are the things that I'm still learning these are the things that I want to learn So I think the training that I've had in my life, my fortunate life, the jobs that I've had, the education that I've had, the family that I had, has brought me to this place where San Francisco Zen Center makes sense for me right now.

[32:03]

I think this is a very hard place to live if it doesn't make sense, if there are things in your life that are pulling you away from this place. And I think it's for each person to understand and to work on what that means for them. It's a wonderful thing to be here if you can stand being here. It's a horrible thing to be here if you can't. And I would be delighted to have that conversation with anybody because I've spent a lot of time thinking about that and working it out for myself. So one of the things Erin said was it should be a happy talk. It should be a New Year's talk where everybody feels great about practice. And my sister's visiting, and one of the things she said to me which struck me is like, you were a really shy child.

[33:14]

So maybe... this talk you can consider to be a talk given by a very shy person that's hopefully slightly encouraging for practice. I'm really excited about figuring out what being Tonto is. I don't think there's a... I mean, David handed me a job description. It's totally, like, mind-blowing. And I'm quite sure that... I won't cover the ground that David covered. And it's quite possible that he knows that and that he will continue supporting me in all the ways he does and Ed will continue supporting me in all the ways he does to learn what this job is so I can better... all of you to understand what your practice is and how this fits with you for this coming year so I think I would be happy to answer a question or two and then it'll be time for us to go to bed so we can get up please Lucy

[34:49]

Well, I think personally, the entering things into Indra's net is like... Yeah, but probably in all seriousness, it was the five pages. Yeah, so I'm still... There are ways that it circles around and... I'm getting emails from people saying, uh, what about this thing that was supposed to happen last week? You know, and I'm, so I'm, there are many, many components of it that I'm only discovering because people are kindly requesting things that should have been done before. Yeah. So for example, the 2020 calendar had to be, uh, done and sent, uh, to Wendy last week.

[36:01]

And thank goodness Paola did it for me. So it's really, I'm uncertain of what the territory is at this point. And I can honestly say that because of the uncertainty I had around being Fugiten and guest cook, and Tenzo at Tassahara, and Tenzo at City Centre, and living with Steve as he was dying, and being director, I can stand the fact that I'm uncertain about this job now. And it's okay, actually. And I will ask for the help and support of this amazing group of people to guide me in doing it. Thank you, Lucy. The last one.

[37:15]

I can tell you one of the coolest things I did. So one of the coolest things I did was friends of mine in a remote foothill property in Alberta with no power asked me if I would build their three-car garage. So I had all of the materials trucked out, and I used a generator, and I bought A pad, which I didn't pour, a concrete pad was poured. And I built the walls. So I was working by myself. And there were days when moose would run by. And I'd just be standing there watching the moose run by. All sorts of wildlife.

[38:17]

And so I built a wall and laid it down. Built another wall, laid it down. Built the back wall, laid it on top. built this one, laid it on top, built the roof on top of it, and it was all ready to go. And then one day a crane operator came out to the property, and he picked up the roof, set it over. He picked up a wall. I attached it. He picked up another one, so I attached the four walls. He picked up the roof, and he put it on top. Boom. And he just... He just looked at me. It was sort of like a Lego set, but it was a three-car garage, so it was 36 feet across by 24 feet deep. So it was so cool. In the middle of nowhere. Yeah, so that was fun. Thank you, David. Paola.

[39:20]

I think I talked about that a little bit in a talk. So for those of you who don't know, I was friends. Nancy and Miles helped me get a job at Four Barrel Coffee. And I wanted to serve coffee. I was really charged up about this idea of serving in a coffee shop. It was so great. So I worked... Five days a week, like eight hours a day, serving hundreds of people coffee. And talk about practice. Like people get mad at you around coffee. Or they're really happy. You make their day, you ruin their day. They have money, they don't have money. They come into the shop, they order a coffee, and then they like turn white as a ghost. And they're like,

[40:32]

no money I forgot my wallet I lost my wallet can I still have my coffee it it's just this parade this amazing parade of people that come in and the I was clearly like the oldest person working I probably none of them even if you added up all their ages they didn't equal my age And all the people coming into the place were also often very young. And so they had no idea how to relate to me at all. And then they knew that I had come from Zen Center. So I'm this old lady that is a priest from Zen Center. It's just like, what is going on here? So... My relationship to practice, although it was seemingly outside of a practice environment, I felt the richness of my practice every day.

[41:50]

And stuff just happened. And I would just keep serving coffee and trying to be nice to people. Being kind. Being kind is a very, very basic, strong part of my practice. Being kind. Trying to be kind to myself. Trying to be kind to other people. And I worked on that all the time there. So that was very alive for me at that time. Thank you. Goodness. Thank you all. very much. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered at no cost and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma.

[42:51]

For more information, visit sfcc.org and click giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[43:00]

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