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Harmony Through Breath and Awareness

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Talk by Unclear on 2023-10-28

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The talk on October 28th, 2023, addresses the concept of harmony both within individuals and with the broader environment. It includes practical exercises such as breathing techniques and Qigong movements to illustrate the interconnectedness of body, mind, and breath. The discussion also touches upon Zen and Taoist philosophies, particularly focusing on the non-dual nature of existence and how to cultivate a balanced life through awareness and meditation. The speaker encourages participants to explore personal experiences of harmony and engage in self-inquiry about their connection to the surrounding world.

Referenced Works:
- Anapanasati Sutra: The mindfulness of breathing sutra, which guides awareness of the breath and its central role in life vitality.
- Daodejing and Zhuangzi: Classical Taoist texts highlighting the relativity and interconnectedness of all things in nature, influencing Zen philosophy.
- Ba Duan Jin (Eighth Session Broquet): A traditional set of Qigong exercises coordinated with breathing, emphasizing the harmony of movements and breath.

Key Concepts:
- Mindfulness of Breath: The practice of being continually aware of breathing as a means to unify mind and body.
- Interconnectedness: The Taoist and Zen teaching that our individual existence is deeply linked with the universe, challenging the notion of isolated selfhood.
- Harmony and Disharmony: Exploring how internal discord relates to external experiences and the cultivation of internal balance through practices such as meditation and breathing exercises.
- Zen and Taoism: Philosophical and practical insights into achieving equanimity and balance in a complex, interdependent world.

AI Suggested Title: Harmony Through Breath and Awareness

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Transcript: 

You know, that's a problem with the plants now. They don't work. Oxygen, of course. You go outside, you're not blocking yourself. You don't work. [...] You work. You work. [...] I don't know if you get it, but I don't know. [...] Yeah, I was just... Yeah.

[01:28]

Okay. Okay. . . .

[02:33]

I don't think I should go back to it, but I don't know what to do. Let's move over just a minute.

[03:38]

Sometimes we need to stand up and do some movements. So let's give each other a little bit of space. Spread that a little bit. But while we sit down, it's okay. If you're interested in the chair, there are some chairs behind. Can I move my seat just with you? Yep. Okay. If you have your cell phone with you, please run. Yeah, actually, Walter and the teacher set up with this little movement here.

[05:06]

So, if anybody would like to get a drink right now, it's right outside. I'd like to get breaks too. Yeah, you will drink it outside and leave it out. It's over, of course. Yeah. Please. [...]

[06:07]

Please. Please. So then we need to pull your lips so I can connect your face. Got one. Yes. Can you leave the water outside? You can finish drinking.

[07:07]

Thank you. Please. So... call your names, and so I know who you are. Do we have Jay here? Hi, Jay. And Luis. Luis. Luis. Michael, yes. Jason. Do we have a Jason yet? Okay. Margaret. Margaret. Hi, Margaret. Nathan. Nathan, Nathaniel. How do you say your name? Nathaniel? Okay. Patricia, I saw you. Anna. Anna, Anna. Anna, Carolina. Janie, or Janie.

[08:09]

Janie. Janie, hi Janie. Eli? Eli, hi Eli. And we have Kingshai somewhere. Jan. Do we have Jan here yet? Kush. Has Kush gotten here? Sylvia. Hi, Sylvia. Sandeep, I saw you. Daniel. Hi, Daniel. Joy. Hi, Joy. David. David, David. Not yet. Chloe. I saw Chloe somewhere. Hi. Nicholas. Nicholas. Okay. Did I call your name?

[09:14]

What's your name? Catherine? Catherine? Okay. Maybe you got in after they printed your... No? Or did you come with someone? Oh, I see you got her. That's why your name is not here. It's Catherine? Okay. Sorry. Sorry. And then we have people online. Hello. I want to say hello to those of you online. And Dan is our Zoom guy here, and he's going to take care of you if you have questions or you have anything happening online that you need to let us know.

[10:21]

Okay. Hello to Grace, Melissa, Jan, Ann, and... Varonic. Varonic? Yes. Hi, Varonic. Okay, so let's just get started. And there might be a few more people trickling in. And welcome to the Harmony Within and Beyond workshop today. And we're going to spend the next few hours together from 1 to 4. We're going to cover a few topics, and we'll also do some movements, some meditation, and we'll have some breaks. So please take care of yourself. If you're not used to sitting for a long time and you need to get up and sit on a chair, please do, and it's totally fine.

[11:26]

And so let's all get up for now. And we're going to do some movements. Should I come here? That works? Can I take off the mic? Or can you pick up the sound? Okay. So I put it in my pocket. Okay. So let's just loosen up the body a little bit. Just do a little shake. A little shake. And whatever you have done, have heard, have seen today, just for the time being, just shake it off. Leave it behind. And then you can move your arms from side to side while twisting your back.

[12:36]

And just do it as you feel comfortable. Come back to a pause. So your feet are pointing forward, shoulders width, and shoulders are dropped. Spine is upright, and your head is held so we're going to move each joint from top to bottom in the next few minutes and so first let's rotate your neck first move your neck from right side to left in circle so clockwise one

[13:58]

Two. Three. Four. Five. Six. And reverse direction. Counterclockwise. One. Two. Three. And back to the center. And roll your shoulders from front to back. One. Two. Three. Four. Five. And six.

[15:05]

Pause. And from back to front six times. One. And pause. And put your arms on your hip and rotate your hip joint from right to left. Make circles clockwise. One. Two. Three. Four. six so it's like your tailbone making circles counterclockwise one two three four five and six and pause and fit together and bend your knees take care to not have your knees over your toes and

[16:19]

Hands on above your kneecap. Clockwise, rotate your knees. One, two, three, four, five, six. And counterclockwise. One, two, three, four, five, and six. And straighten up. And then your ankles. And so your right ankle first. Six times each direction. One, two, three, four, five, six. Do the other direction. Two, three, four, five, six. And shake, shake that leg. One, two, three, four, five, six. One, two, three, four, five, six. Okay, good. And the other side. Rotate. One, two, three, four, five, six.

[17:23]

The other direction. One, two, three, four, five, six. And shake that leg sideways. Three, four, five, six. And back. Three, four, five, six. Great. And so we're going to do a little stretching for the spine. Okay? Raise your arms up. And up, [...] up. And bend back from the chest up. Not from the back, okay? So back bend from the chest up. Take a deep breath. And on your out breath, bend forward. And... Lower your upper body.

[18:24]

If you can touch the ground with your hand, that's fine. If not, that's fine too. And just release your spine and let your whole spine drop. And let your head and neck drop. And take a few deep breaths. And come up gradually. What a ray by vertebrae. Great. And raise your arm again. And clap your thumbs. And move side to side. Breathe in, coming to the center.

[19:25]

Breathe out. the side six times back to the center Relax your arms. Relax your hands. And shake, shake, shake. However you want to shake your body is fine. You can jump if you want. Right. Okay. So get your chi, get your blood moving. If you just had lunch, maybe don't jump too much.

[20:26]

Okay. All right. Do we feel all warmed up now? Good. So we're going to sit down and find a cushion that suits you, suits your sitting posture. Has everybody done a meditation before here? Any beginner? Never or never. Okay. So if you are okay sitting on the cushion cross-legged, like loosely, that would be fine. If it becomes difficult, you can move to a chair. Okay. Okay, so let's sit down. And if you need support questions, there are a few over there. So if you are used to sitting cross-legged, you can put one foot up on top of the other thigh.

[22:04]

And the main thing is to have this tripod set up for your body like that camera so that your two knees are stable and your sit bone on the cushion As we sit down, we can... When we sit down, it helps to stretch our lower back, our neck and shoulder first to condition the body to the sitting posture with more ease.

[24:06]

So, usually I like to Stretch my neck and shoulder from side to side. One side. So when you stretch this way, you feel the stretch between your neck and shoulder. And then if you keep stretching, you're going to feel some stretch in the hip. Do you feel that? And back to the center. On the out breath, you stretch to the other side. So just release your neck and head so that you feel the stretch. And go as far as your body can support you so you can feel a little stretch. Breathe in, come back to the center. Breathe out, stretch to the side.

[25:07]

And breathe in. Breathe out. And breathe in. Next time, you bend forward toward your left knee from the belly up. You don't bend from the chest. You bend from the lower back from your belly. Breathe out. Bend over. Breathe in and come back. And turn to your right side, breathe out. Breathe in, come back. And breathe out, bend forward. So you're going to have a stretch for your lower back, this way. And come back up on an in-breath. How does that feel?

[26:30]

So after a few rounds of stretching and rocking your body left and right, you can come to the center. And we're going to sit for a few minutes. fell three times to signal the beginning, and twice to signal. sitting upright with a long spine.

[28:02]

Like a tree, a pine tree, a redwood tree. Your shoulders and arms draw and fall to the side of your body like the tree branches. muscles up your face to soften.

[29:20]

The next out-breath, how the muscle is on top of the shoulders, around the neck. Just open. Valley spot.

[31:20]

Just breathe in. breathe out. Nothing else has to happen. through love, the images and the stories flow by like clouds passing through the sky.

[32:35]

you very much. And so just as we did warm up before meditation, we're going to do another round of exercise after meditation. So let's rub our hands together. Make some heat. Yay. And cup your Hands over your eyes. Your palms over your eyes. Allow your eyes to rest deeply. And use your fingers to... So now you can remove your palms, remove your hands, and so use your finger, either your index finger or your thumb, the finger pad, to give your eye around, massage around your eyes.

[40:28]

So from the inner corner of your eyebrows, you can do a little circular, motion all the way out to your temple and below the inner corner of your eyes you do the same you give little pressure point into your temple and give your temple a good rub. Let's do it one more time. Above. from your temple, move down to your jaw.

[41:46]

Between your jaw and your ears, usually it's pretty sore there, is it? And so, give it a little massage, and then your jaw down to your chin. Squeeze your chin. Squish your jaw. And stretch your ears. Stretch your ears from inside to out. Stretch, stretch. And stretch your earlobes. Good. Close your ears with your palm tightly. And you watch me first. release so like a little a little exercise for your ears tight release good and so use your right hand to squeeze your neck the back of your neck

[43:11]

switch hand and use both hands like this this is behind your neck you pull your neck from side to back like this you see what I'm doing grab the side of your neck and pull it back How does that feel? Do you get it? So, in addition to that, you watch me first, you look up and back and look up while you pull your neck and come back to the center and look up while you pull your neck.

[44:17]

Do you feel a little relief in your neck muscle this way? So this is a good exercise for your head and neck when you sit in front of a computer. So you just spend three, five minutes doing a little massage. Stretching your neck. Give yourself a little neck massage. After that, we're going to do a little patting for the body. Since you already sat for a long time, let's all stand up. So after the neck roll, you can hit your shoulder.

[45:31]

The other side. And your chest. Chest. And belly. And the side of your body. Side of your body. And the other side. And from the top of your arm, the back side of your arm, up. Through your armpit. And down. Up your arm. Hit your armpit. And down your arm. Three times. And the other side. This side.

[46:34]

And back of your body. Use a hollow palm. And your head. And down the side of your leg. And up the inner side of your leg. And down. And up. And down. And up again. Okay. Very good. Are we good? So, this is to wake up your body. One of the ways to wake up your body, if you feel a little tired from sitting, either sitting in front of the computer or after sitting for a long period of zazen, you can do a little finishing exercise this way.

[47:43]

Okay, so let's sit back down. everybody comfortable on your cushion good so this is a workshop called harmony within and beyond cultivating well-being and wholeness so a lot of words but I'm just wondering if If any of you would like to share what brought you to this workshop today, when you saw the name or the description of the workshop, what prompted you to come?

[48:47]

And is there an inquiry in you that you you've been working on or you've been curious about that you'd like to explore with us today so take your time but if you you would like to say a few words probably not not a whole dissertation a few breaths please raise your hand if you'd like to speak tell us, what brought you here? What about harmony? What about harmony within and beyond that drew your curiosity or inquiries?

[49:52]

So you just... Great. Yeah, I've been reflecting on the title. Dr. Lucy is a friend of mine, so she invited me here, so that's how I found out about this. But I feel like for me... I often feel disharmonious inside of myself while at the same time wanting to help maybe things around me like the world or even just my family also have more harmony. And I imagine that there's a connection there between the disharmony I feel inside and also the stuff that is happening outside. So that's why I'm here. I hear you say you feel... Harmony or disharmony inside? Both, but disharmony was what I was saying.

[51:25]

And you're wondering about that and your connection to the outside. That's correct. To the outside world. Family and friends and the world. Thank you. Anybody else? Yes, please. Something that I was recently thinking about was how in every scale, zooming out when it comes to, say, like the ecosystem in a biome, there's this kind of balance between, for example,

[52:33]

predators and herbivores and plants and animals and everything. And then if you zoom out more, you see planets in a solar system and you realize that it's also very perfectly balanced in the sense that it was the perfect amount of force where the Earth is going around the sun and not flying off into space or crashing into the sun. And then zooming in to the smaller scale, the microbiomes, for example, the bacteria or things that are on our skin or in our body that is in perfect balance in a way to kind of maintain your body. And it just seems like in every level of scale there's this kind of harmony within each level as well as in a vertical way as well. So you see harmony in this world, different levels.

[53:40]

Yeah, for sure. That they are regulating themselves. Yeah, and I think that balance is something, at least for me, like I think a lot of us is trying to search for as well in life, like when it comes to balancing family, work, friends, interests. And that balance, I think, is what's fun, but also something quite beautiful. So it seems like human life itself, there's a bit more challenge to find that kind of balance. Yeah, but I think the challenge is what's fun about it, too. Yes, thank you. Yes. Um, I feel like lately I just haven't been able to turn my mind off.

[54:41]

Like it just will not let me rest. And I feel also that just everyday events in life have been feeling harder than they used to be or just more challenging than they should be. And I feel like there's a connection there. Um, And so I think disharmony is just something I'm feeling inside, and just lack of peace, lack of balance. And it's my first time here, and I saw the title of this talk, and I think that's what spoke to me, the idea of harmony and well-being. Looking for harmony. Yeah. I think so. Yes. Thank you. Anybody else like to share a few words?

[55:46]

Yes, please. I came to this event to build a greater enjoyment around meditation, and I know that there's something deep within, and I want to explore that and cover as much distance as I can before the eventual end of my life. Yes. Thank you. And I'm interested in learning more about systems of wellness that include us in nature rather than separating. Yeah. Yes. Yes. One question I'm interested in is both the overlap between and the spaces where systems of medicine start to give way to spirituality, or spirituality gives way to a system of medicine where they're both applicable and where the gaps in each are that the other one needs to fill in, as well as physical practice like Qigong.

[57:14]

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. So there are... I think we're all coming from different... viewpoints and experiences. And I think the question, the fundamental question is how do we live our life? How do we live our life? beneficial to ourselves and to others, to our environment, our family and friends, and to the whole world from this very small scale that ripples out from here.

[58:19]

And Perhaps harmony is not just a word. It's an experience that we are all looking for as a human being, as a life. I think naturally we want to be happy. We want to be healthy. We want to be helpful. to others. We want to take care of each other. And yet, what does it mean? Is there a solar system inside us that just takes care of itself without us doing anything?

[59:23]

What is it that brings us here at this very moment, this very spot? I think there is a very basic question. And you may not be able to articulate articulated now but there is an inquiry there and this is what we are trying to explore and so what does it mean to be harmonious or to be in harmony.

[60:34]

The word harmony can mean different things to different people. So what does it mean to you? Do you have another word or description for harmony? Or how does it feel in your life when You are in harmony. You have a word or phrase, a description? Peaceful. Peaceful. What's the other side of peace or peaceful?

[61:43]

Destruction? Destruction? Any other thought? Yeah? No barriers. No? No barriers. No barriers. No barriers. Like, free? I would say so. I think we tend to make barriers, make up barriers. Ah, ah, ah. Barriers. Like no border? No border, yeah. No border. Like putting ourselves into specific groups or categories of identity.

[62:53]

Uh-huh. The barriers of legalism, that's the next word. Uh-huh. Even the barrier between us and the world is a barrier. Uh-huh. Yeah, all barriers. Separation. and yet sometimes we we need the barrier right we need these walls to make this room for us and so how do we make use of it without being confined. So there's some questions there. Any other inspirations?

[63:56]

Yes. I think of harmony as equanimity. Equanimity. Balance. Balance. Yes. And what's the other side of equanimity or balance? It's a balance. It balance, yeah. And how does it feel? Like an example in life? Just taking some examples of what some people say is, where you might be in a time where people get peaceful. but in mind it's all over the place so there is a the self involved the mind involved absolutely yes how the mind make of make of it make of things yes you can

[65:06]

Make it with ease. You can make it with dis-ease. That's all very helpful input. Help me to understand where you are coming from. And... So what does it mean to have harmony within? So we've heard several mentioning of disharmony inside or the mind is being distracted or being scattered or being...

[66:09]

distressed. And so how do we get inside and find harmony in there? So the word harmony means musical notes being played together to create nice sounds, nice, pleasant sound. And the Chinese character also, Harmony He, also is a picture of the sheng, a pipe instrument made of multiple bamboo flutes.

[67:14]

So you play multiple bamboo flutes together while this is an instrument all together to make beautiful sound. So that means it involves different pieces. It's not just one single thing. Harmony is not about one single thing. It's about having different things, having... variety a diverse environment but they exist together nicely and it doesn't mean that there's no activity of course doesn't mean everybody just shut up and don't say anything it it means everybody play their sound, play their music, but for some amazing reason, these sounds come together and they sound very nice.

[68:25]

And so our life, this body and mind, there are so many pieces. when we look at harmony within, it's not just our head. It's not just what we're thinking, what we want and what we don't want. It's the whole of our life, which includes our body and our mind. And in Chinese terms, it's our body And qi, our vital energy, and our mind, mind-spirit. And so all these different pieces, how do they exist in this life? As we are still alive, how do they exist in us peacefully but also vitally?

[69:35]

And... when we were meditating, when we were doing warm-up exercise, there may be some sense that our mind is, right now, my mind is present in my body. And that gives some sense of ease. So, when... our mind and body and our breath, our vital energy, they play together in ways that brings us ease, brings us happiness, brings us life, vitality.

[70:48]

And that kind of feeling, maybe that's what harmony is. Harmony is about life. So within this body and this mind, breath is like Our breath is like a peacemaker.

[71:52]

It kind of connects our mind and body together. So some of us here, we've been studying, I've been studying a sutra, a Buddhist sutra called Anapanasati, the mindfulness of breath. And it talks about being mindful of our body as we breathe in and breathe out, being mindful of our mind activities, of our feelings as we breathe in and breathe out. Why is it so important to be mindful of our breath? This is all we have when we are alive.

[73:00]

When we let out our last breath. That's it. So as we sit here, we breathe in and breathe out. Our body knows how to do it. It's like the sun, the earth going around the sun, right? If we let it, if we let ourselves breathe, it knows how to do it. But sometimes our mind gets in the way. When we get too caught up or nervous about things, we lose that ability.

[74:19]

We don't know how to breathe. So the character qi in In Chinese also, sometimes means breath. It means the vital energy of our human life, and it also means breath. In ancient Chinese, there are several ways to write the character qi. One way is to write it. One of the... means the qi, the breath from the air, from nature. So it writes a little different.

[75:22]

And so it's our breath. When we take breath from nature, from the earth, from our surroundings, we're taking a breath in. This is the the breath from nature. This is chi from nature. And then there's the chi in our body that writes a little differently. That's the chi that we take from food, from nutrition. So when we eat something, when we drink something, it turns into vital energy in our body. And that's a different kind of chi. And we take in nutrition. We take in whatever food we eat. And so, just like breathing in, giving us life, when we eat, when we drink, it also gives us life.

[76:37]

So how do we breathe? How do we take in nutrition for this body? And how do we, matter of fact, how do we take in nutrition for our mind, for our spirit? It's very, very important questions to ask when we want to look Look at how am I living? How is this mind and body doing? Am I breathing? Am I taking in vital energy from the universe and turning it into life energy of our own?

[77:50]

And am I taking in vital energy from food and turn it into my own life energy? How am I doing? So, I want to leave that pause here and see if there are any questions or comments about what we just talked about. How is your breath?

[78:55]

Yes? I notice for myself just hearing about the breath and bringing my attention to my breath seems to settle it and root it And so even without such a specific intention, just giving attention to my breath seems to really gives me a feeling of connection. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wonderful. You all know how to do it. Where are you holding your breath? Chest. You feel it more in the chest. How do you feel in your neck and shoulder?

[80:19]

Yeah. So sometimes tension, tension up here can prevent us to breathe more deeply. And so there are so many places we collect tension. And shoulders, neck, back is a very common place. And the belly also. And so... But they are not stuck. It's not really stuck. It's actually alive. And... It takes a little patience. So as you breathe out, allow your muscles to melt from your neck and shoulder.

[81:42]

And allow your chest to be a little more open, but not too intensely, but just in a relaxed way, allow it to open more. Because most of us spend so much time in front of computer now, these muscles and ligaments got shortened over time. And that compress our chest wall. And so being able to relax the muscles in our neck and shoulder and in our chest and around the shoulder joint help our breath. And that's what we do in meditation, actually. We just allow ourselves to relax and be with our body.

[83:01]

And anybody else want to say anything about your breath? Okay. So, let's take a break. Let's take a few minutes break. Let's say 10 minutes. Please drink some water and stretch. If you need to use the bathroom, there are two bathrooms down the hallway. I think they both are open. Take a walk in the courtyard. Breathe some fresh air if you like. Thank you. I'll see you in 10 minutes. So we can see each other.

[96:55]

You have to get too far. get too comfortable and we don't have to get up. So I know I'm looking So we changed our formation to .

[98:34]

So let's get up and ask in a way that you have enough room between your neighbors because we're gonna do a little movement again. Okay. Okay, so next we're going to do a few movements with breathing, coordinated with breaths. And they are adapted from Qigong movement called the Eighth Session Broquet, Ba Duan Jing.

[99:49]

But I'm not too concerned about the movement itself as much as the breathing. So it's more of an awareness of breath exercise with movements. So first of all, as usual, let's shake our body a little bit. Can you guys see me? Maybe you can turn toward me. yes thank you okay so so first let's just start by putting our feet forward and well feet grounded on the floor shoulder width apart And toes pointing forward.

[100:52]

Okay. And drop your shoulders. Tuck your tailbone just slightly. And bend your knees slightly. Do you feel stable in this posture? Okay. So as you breathe in, you can watch me first as you breathe in. Breathe in, you raise your arms up. And as you breathe out, put your hands down. Like making a little circle with your hands. Up and in and down. Bless you. in and down and with your breath breathe in and breathe out breathe in and breathe out relax your wrist

[102:15]

Breathe out. Your elbows are always slightly bent, not straightened. Breathe in. And breathe out. Just one more time. Breathe in. And breathe out. Pause. So just a little comment about the joints when you make these kind of movements. So the joints are always a little bent, like the knee joints, your tailbone, your wrist, and your elbow. They are not straightened because when it's slightly bent, just like the river, when the river flows, it flows in like a little curvy way. And energy, the chi flows better when it's slightly bent.

[103:26]

And so as you make movements, you take care to allow your joints to remain flexible and round. And so breathe in. Draw your hands back in and down. Breathe out. And make sure your shoulders are dropped. And breathe out. And your head, you hold your head up, but slightly tuck in your chin ever slightly, just like meditation. And if you feel your neck, the back of your neck should be If you're wearing clothes with color, it touches the color of your clothes.

[104:37]

So your spine is centered from top down. And your feet, your legs are connected to the earth and draw the energy up from the earth. And you allow the energy from the universe to flow through you as you do these movements with breathing. Okay? So, breathe in and breathe out. And next, as you breathe in, you collect the energy with your palms up your chest and collapse your fingers and move your hands up and so your hands are like this it's like holding up something so the yeah right so this might be the one

[105:57]

where you actually straighten your wrists and your elbow joints. And breathe out. Come down. Breathe in. And breathe out. And look up. Breathe in. And breathe out. when you breathe out allow your arms to come down slowly and breathe in and breathe out breathe in and breathe out you might want to come forward a little bit so you can you can extend your arms breathe in and breathe out and breathe in and breathe out breathe in and breathe out breathe in and breathe out breathe in and

[107:24]

Breathe out. Pause. And next one, you do the first movement is the same. Breathe in. And then the next, you raise up one hand and push down the other, right? Breathe in. Breathe out. breathe in, coming back here, and breathe out. So when you push up, this arm, the upper arm, is like next to your ear, and the palm faces up, and the other arm goes down, and the palm faces down. And not just facing different direction, but there is a push and pull so that you get a little stretch diagonally.

[108:32]

Okay? And coming back to the center. Breathe in. And breathe out. And breathe in. Breathe out. breathe in and breathe out breathe in and breathe out and breathe in and coming back to the center and hold hold your hands in front of you like playing with a ball in the water.

[109:40]

So it kind of floats a little bit, but you don't need to make too much effort to hold it. And breathe in. Close. Get closer. And breathe out. Open up a little more. Open your chest. And breathe in. Cave in a little bit. And breathe out. Open your chest. And extend your arms back a little bit. Like spreading your wings. Breathe in. breathe out breathe in and breathe out and breathe in and breathe out great and can come back to the center and push

[110:57]

exhale and this one is a little more fun so if you widen your stance like a horse stand and your feet points not straight forward but maybe 30 degree to the side still tuck your tailbone in bend your knees a little deeper If you can. If you have knee problems and it's hard for you, don't do that. And it's like drawing a bow and shoot the arrow. So breathe. Watch me once if you haven't seen it. Breathe in. Breathe out. Shoot. Breathe in. Breathe out. So when you breathe in, you move one arm as if you are drawing the bow.

[112:10]

And breathe out. Shoot the arrow. Straighten the other. And look. And look. to your let's see this is my right but to to the extended arm okay breathe in and breathe out shoot and breathe in draw the ball and breathe out so when you shoot the arrow you you actually pull pull the ball and shoot. So there is a little traction between your two arms, right? And you actually open up your shoulder joints. And try again. Breathe in. Breathe out. Shoot. Breathe in.

[113:12]

And breathe out. Shoot the arrow. Breathe in. Breathe in, and breathe out. So your eyes come from, your eyes track the arrow, and then it becomes the next hand to draw the bow. You follow that hand. As you pull the bow, you shoot, then you look at the arrow. Look at your target. Okay, breathe in and breathe out. That's the last arrow you have. Shoot. Okay, that's it for the arrow. And next one.

[114:18]

This is a foot. a foot and ankle exercise. Breathe in. Stand on your toes. Breathe out. Drop. Breathe in. Breathe out. Do a few more times. Drop gently on your heels if you have ankle problems. This is good for your tendons and in Chinese medicine, for your kidney system. You do this. So if you have nothing else to do, you can do this. So the finishing, the finishing movement.

[115:26]

is to throw a punch. Well, it sounds a little violent, but this is throwing the punch to the air and getting your frustration out to nobody else. Okay, so you bend your knees. How does it go? One, two, but with your breath. Breathe out. Oh, before that, let's do another one. This is to the side. So you make a fist and make an angry face. Right, just like her. So... You go from side to side and trying to start a fight with someone on each side.

[116:34]

So with an angry face. Okay? Breathing out. Breathing in. Breathe out. You can let out a breath. Yes. Well, you actually have to muster some strength. It's not just like, it's not fake. Okay. Okay, that's enough. And then the center one is your shoulder fist. Collect yourself.

[117:43]

Very nice. Thank you very much. It's just a few movements you can do just in a few minutes to move your body and also practice your breathing, mindfulness of breath. How did it go? Yeah? Okay. I hope you are a little more awake now. So we can sit back down now. Yes? I have a question for you about the mass movement. I noticed the breath was through the mouth. It's not intentional. So for all the movements, would you say most of them was through the nose?

[118:51]

Yeah, because you want to let out whatever chi you don't want to keep. And breathing out through the mouth can be faster. You can try doing it through your nose and see how it feels. See if it has the same effect. Yes. So with movement, was it a little easier to keep track, or not keep track, but be mindful or aware of your breath? Like with... with the coordination of movement. Yes. And so that's our human breath.

[119:59]

How do we make a breath? How does breath happen? How does breath happen? Do you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So a lot happens when we take a breath, right? The oxygen comes in and it permeates our bloodstream and gives us oxygen. to the blood. At the same time, if we breathe normally and deeply, the diaphragm moves and pushes the organs, the lungs also.

[121:03]

The lungs opens and contracts, and the heart also, and the organs also. So if we breathe deeply, there's a lot happening. in the body and the body gets rejuvenated quicker whereas if we breathe more shallow like here everything just in at a smaller scale and not you don't get as much energy from the breath from each breath as you would from a deeper deeper breath and so in interestingly even this simple action of breathing if if you if you think of it I mean we take it for granted but if we think of it it connects us

[122:18]

to the outside world. There's a lot happened. Every moment, every time we take a breath, there's a conversation between us and the nature. And so this life, this very life, by default is connected. to the whole universe, to the whole world. We don't always think that way. We always think that we are this person. We are what we think about. We are how we feel, what we feel. And we're confined within this notion of the self. And so this separation, this sense of separation.

[123:18]

But if you open your awareness, if you open your heart and mind, you notice that each breath we take is from the universe, is a gift from the universe. And each breath each thing we see, each thing we do, each thing we eat, is a gift from the universe. And so when we are trapped inside our notions, our head, it's easy to just omit that, to forget that. And so this harmony within ourselves inevitably implies that there is harmony between us and other, us and the whole world.

[124:36]

Because if there is no harmony between us and others, what's outside of us, then there is no harmony within. And that's not separate. That's the two sides of the same coin. So even though our body is separated from the outside by our skin, by this skin bag, everything, that supplies this body comes from outside of us, actually. Just imagine everything we, all the clothes we wear, things we use, the food and drink. Is there anything we actually make for ourselves?

[125:38]

Not really. So, How do we step back, step out from the distress of thinking we are all by ourselves, we are completely separate from others? Because a lot of our distress, disharmony, comes from comes from this sense of the self being stuck in something. Being stuck in not doing what we want to do, not getting what we wish to have, not

[126:46]

not having the right people to work with or the right job but this very notion that creates distress in us comes from a kind of rigid notion a rigid idea that we are all by ourselves this is All we have, this is all about our life. And so how do we break away from it, break out of that self-centered notion? It's a key, or maybe one of the keys to living in harmony. So in Daodejing and Zhuangzi, I don't know if you heard of these classics, Chinese classics in the Taoist tradition, which has a lot of influence in Zen.

[128:18]

They talk about the relativity of of all things, the relativity and the interconnectedness of all things. When there's this, there's always that. When there's me, there's always the others. When there's the front, there's always the back. Because everything exists in this phenomenal world in relation to everything else. So when we are stuck in this notion of self-centeredness, oftentimes we don't see our relationships in a way that that's from a bigger view.

[129:26]

Because if if we always see things from this point of view, from me, from I, from mine, then we always just see a very narrow side. And, of course, if you only see one side, it will come against other people's viewpoints. with how things flow in life. If you are stuck in one way of thinking, that I want this, I want that, nothing else will make me happy, then when things don't go that way, then you're stuck. So... it's helpful to step out of that position.

[130:35]

Not to say you forget about yourself, but to have the flexibility of getting in and out of your positions. Because when you're able to see a bigger view... the different sides of things, then your vision becomes wider, your heart becomes bigger, and you don't have to be stuck in one small place. when we are in we are on one side we see the other side not only that we see the interplay of the sides and that's how actually things are it's just like seasons just like day and night there's always interplay of the yin and yang energy and always interplay

[132:04]

of the feminine and the masculine, or the bright and the dark. If you say, oh, I only want, well, in life you don't say, I only want the weather in San Francisco in September. and I don't want anything else, then you'll be miserable in San Francisco. And from our point of view, we might have preferences, we might have like something more than the other.

[133:08]

But from a bigger place, everything has its place. So there's a chapter in Zhuangzi, a Taoist classic, that's called The Equality of All Things. And it asks this question. In your body, which do you love the most? It's your bones, your organs, your mouth, nose, ears. Which do you love the most? Do you only love certain organs in your body and not the others? That's a funny question, right?

[134:17]

But this body can be a bigger body of our human race or of our all the nature. So from a bigger point of view, everything has its place, has its value. And so as we live our life, we of course have our positions, have our way of doing things. But when we come into contact with others, we have to know that other people have their way of doing things and their viewpoints. So how do we find the middle? How do we find... How do we play with each other so that the music comes out nicely?

[135:20]

We don't have to play the same note. In fact, that wouldn't sound nice if everybody played the same note. But we all play different notes. But somehow it comes out nicely. How do we do that? So in the same chapter, it also talks about the music of human and music of the earth, or the sound of human and earth. And so the music of human comes from instruments and comes from, well, we make sound through instruments, instruments of, I don't know, these musical... things and we make sound with our own voice, our own voice cord, own pipe.

[136:34]

And the earth makes sound through their caves and pipes and different different things in nature. In fact, the earth also breathes. And it's called the wind. And when the breath pass through these caves and holes, they make music, they make sound. There's a, then you know, wind cave at Tassahara. That's my favorite hiking place. And so nature carved out these beautiful caves out of these big boulders.

[137:39]

And yeah, on windy days, you hear... You hear sound of the nature. So how do we listen to our own sound, our own music, as well as others' music, as well as sound from the earth? Hmm. That's a question. So let's get in

[138:54]

Get in a sitting posture. And let's do a few minutes of sound meditation. So you don't need to go catch the sound. Because sound happens everywhere. Let it come to you. All you need to do is open your ear, open your awareness. Open your ears and let the smallest sound come to you.

[140:37]

Let the furthest sound come to you unexpectedly. You're not focusing on anything, not even your breath, not your thoughts.

[141:54]

Just stay in the openness and let whatever sound that happens come. Let it happen without labeling or judging anything. Thank you.

[144:49]

That was an unexpected sound. How was the second meditation? How was this last one? How was it for you? It was hard to not focus on breath or label something or give an idea to something. I think the closest that I got to it was when I was letting all the sounds enter and at the same time mapping some kind of abstract visualization i had my eyes closed yeah that's as close as i got for a few moments but otherwise it was difficult it's not your usual way of meditating right definitely was it fun oh for sure yeah i looked at a lot

[146:15]

How was it for anybody else? Did you hear any sound? Was it hard? Was it hard? Why was it hard? Why was it hard? What makes it hard? Yes? I think my mind likes to discriminate and put things in the boxes because it was hard to stop that habit. Yeah. So there's a habit for the mind to associate things with notions, with labels, naming, and then give values if you go further down, right?

[147:34]

Yes. So that's interesting. So if there's not a designated object to meditate on, Like if you don't say, okay, I'm going to count my breath or follow my breath and just let your mind be open and see what comes. And that's a little harder, right? But this one, you actually have the sound. It's just the sound is unpredictable. Not, you cannot go get it. Like the usual way we, like, If, say, we meditate on a visual object or the breath, we kind of know what it is. It's more predictable. And then there is some kind of comfort there that we can stay around, you know, stay focused on that and stay in it.

[148:43]

But... if we don't have that, what happens to our mind? Because the mind, I have to clarify, our thinking mind, not just our mind. Our thinking mind loves labels and ideas and notions. And so when we drop that, The thinking mind doesn't know what to do. And that's challenging, because a lot of us live in our thinking mind a lot of times. And the request here is to not live in just our thinking mind, but more in the present moment. which includes, could include our thinking mind, but includes a lot more.

[149:49]

There's a lot more in life that's happening. And just to listen to the city, there are all these sounds. And just to think there are so many people sitting in this room, so many different lives, different experiences. And what have happened to every one of you earlier today, yesterday, in your whole life, so many stories. But we oftentimes, our thinking mind just have one story, and one goal, I want to get there. And just ignore all these other people, other things. So that was interesting, right? And what else do you notice from this meditation? Yes?

[150:49]

When I heard about you choking on the water, the first thing was like, I know I should have been meditating, but I just have to take a peek. I'm sure she's okay. And then that's when I could go back to meditating. But I feel like there's always this part of me where... when I do try to meditate, there's always this part where I feel I need to be in touch with anything that might be going wrong. And I'm not a mom per se, but I feel like there's that piece of it where it's always there. Yeah. Feeling a little insecure. I don't know about insecure. It's just more on the watch. Slight alert. Yes, and I don't think I normally feel that just walking day to day. So that was interesting to notice. That's interesting. Of course, I mean, if something happens, naturally we act on that, on what happens.

[151:57]

But there's a lot to... to say about our reaction, our action and reaction. And so that's something to think about. What is our habitual ways of acting or reacting? And is this natural, is like a natural response? an appropriate response to the moment. Like if I get choked and then I faint or something. Will you spring out of your seat and come rescue me? Somebody will, right? So many times when we sit in... the zendo, the meditation hall downstairs early morning at 5 o'clock, 5.30.

[153:03]

We were all sitting quietly in the zendo while all these crazy things happened outside on the street. And you hear all kinds of things. And there were quite a few occasions when people had to jump out of their seating. I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. Anybody else who want to say something? Yes? I think I did moderately okay with not labeling things, but I noticed what I did was I was really focusing on identifying which direction things were coming from and trying to estimate the distance. And I wasn't doing it on purpose, but I just noticed that's what I was doing.

[154:05]

I was like, oh, that's probably about over there. This is happening there. And that's what I was focusing on. It was very fascinating. Yeah. It's our habits, right? Yeah. Do you think it's helpful? I guess. I mean, normally, right? Yeah, normally, for sure. Normally, you hear sound on the street, you want to react. Yeah, but I don't normally think about that I'm doing that. I did notice that a lot. Yeah, that's interesting. Thank you. Any more stories? Yes, there's one here. So I found there was a point at the beginning where I was sort of letting, it was very helpful what you said, don't reach for the sounds, let them come to you.

[155:08]

And so I think I was trying to clear my mind a little bit at the beginning, and I was sort of hearing the sounds outside the cars and things, and then you started speaking. And naturally, when you started speaking, my mind wanted to interpret what you were saying. And so being in my meditation mode, I was like, no, I don't want to interpret the sound. So I rejected the sound entirely. And so eventually I realized it was just part of the sound around me and I could do with it whatever. I wasn't so sure. I think my... I was sort of trying to be unconscious in my meditation. So you bringing me to my consciousness was, in a way, it was a reminder to be more conscious, but like me and my wants wanted to sort of meditate unconsciously, which I don't think is the right way.

[156:25]

to do it so what do you mean when you say meditate unconsciously like not reactively or like to have an awareness of what's around me but not react to it i see i see but you're alert yeah like to be to be close to that alertness but not react so i think i was trying to recede back and be not conscious but then There was something that was calling me to my consciousness, and so it was pushing me in that direction, and then I wanted to react, so it was kind of like oscillating. It's okay. It's just an exercise, and so no matter what happens, it's okay, but no matter what happens, there's something we can learn from, right? So you are seeing your habit and you are seeing how you meditate and how you go from mode to mode.

[157:34]

And that's fine. That's great, actually. Yeah, I don't think meditation is about always not reacting or not thinking. or not doing anything. It's more about wakefulness, about clarity. And things happen, they pass. They happen. And new things will happen. And that's our life. Things keep happening, life keeps happening, and we just keep flowing with it. And, yeah, sometimes we allow things to come forth.

[158:36]

And sometimes we actually go out, go get it. So, it's an interesting balance Or interplay. So when we say balance or harmony, sometimes it might sound a little static. But in fact, it's an interplay. It's an interplay between this person and what's around us. And interplay actually sometimes within us. the different sides of us. So it's all these exercises and meditation and all that we're exploring is about how to live with more awareness, with more openness.

[159:49]

And so I'm going to open it up to any questions or subjects you want to explore more or things that happen in your own life that you like to explore a little more. Yes. Can we wait for the mic? Earlier you were talking about the usefulness of containers, but not to be contained by them necessarily.

[160:59]

Can you explain a little bit more what you mean? Containers or barriers or borders. what we were talking about. Can you use the mic? Thank you. It sounded like there's a way to exist in harmony with material phenomenon. And I think I just wanted to hear more about what you meant by that. Can you clarify your question a little bit more? Yeah. Okay, so one example that I was thinking through earlier, there's the obvious kind of existence of us in relationship to everything around us, people, nature, ourselves.

[162:07]

How do you... Is there... There's also another kind of interpretation where everything is a projection of this ongoing movie in our head. And we are responsible for our perception. I don't think those two are kind of contradictory. No. how would you kind of explain their relationship, like those two kind of viewpoints? Yeah. So how do you get out of your narrowly defined perception about things? Yeah, yeah. And be more in touch with everything and everyone.

[163:10]

Yeah. I guess one example specifically could be like if I'm in a difficult relationship and I'm acknowledging there's an external kind of relation going on back and forth of exchange, I could try to work with that person and figure out how to harmonize our melodies. Or I could think about the ways in which my melody is discordant or take responsibility for myself and yeah like i see yeah i see so so yeah actually it takes both right and because the when we come in come into a relationship with another person or other group of people there's the reality of this person and other people, and there's the subjective interpretation of myself and others.

[164:26]

So it's important to not get stuck in our perception. And not get stuck in just perception, one side of the story. So if we are able to, like we were saying in the Tao Te Ching class, if we are looking at things from the individual, then there's always just the gain and loss about that individual. There's always just what benefits, what's good or what's bad for this individual. And then there's the... So this individual is obviously preferred or favored when it thinks about

[165:36]

he thinks about himself or herself. But if you look at things from the point of view of Tao, or not even Tao, just like a bigger point of view, just slightly bigger point of view, then you can see this is only one of the stories, and it doesn't mean that it doesn't have a place, but it's one story. And what about the other stories? And so the mind and the heart, when it softens a little bit, when it expands a little bit, then it's able to include more things. And then what happens will come... what happens next will come naturally. Because what we, what I think, what I think is right, what I think is beautiful, is only true for me, not necessarily for other people.

[166:52]

And so the, there is a, a saying in Zhuangzi again, that in ancient, there was a beauty, like a famous, beautiful girl named Xi Shi. And so when people saw her, they were all amazed and they all loved her. But the same beautiful woman, if a fish sees her, the fish would... immediately dive deep into water and get away as far away as it can from her. The bird will immediately fly up to the air and get as far away as it can from her. So just to know that our subjective thinking or feeling about things is only...

[167:58]

from this particular point of view. And also, this point of view is held within our habitual mind. Our habitual mind comes from our experience, comes from our conditioning, good or bad, right? And our mind, our heart, has many layers. And this habitual mind, or thinking mind, is only one layer. A kind of complex, but a narrow, rigid, more rigid and narrow layer. And there is a vast... space behind it and so if we tap into that space then everything will look different will feel different and so so there are several things here that I'm thinking that

[169:27]

would be important to explore. One is to explore how our habitual mind is at work in this kind of interplay of things. And is there more to it? And based on our own experience and conditioning, how do we make the most skillful choice so that it will be helpful, both first to ourselves, but also don't forget to others. And so the motivation has to be a little bit wider than just benefiting myself.

[170:29]

Just staying in the very kind of rigid place of the self. Because in the end, if you are able to, regardless how the other side, how the other side of people react, because they have their own responsibility too, right? But But as you do this work, as you are shedding these layers of habits and conditionings, there will be light coming in. There will be light coming into you. And that may not be what you are looking for, because you're starting out trying to figure out this problem, but as you work through it, you might find something else.

[171:34]

You might have other discoveries that open your life completely in a different direction. And so just leave it open. Leave all the possibilities there, and don't jump to the conclusion too early. Thank you for your question. Any? Yes. Hi. During the meditation that we just did around sound and not labeling it, I think something that came up for me was just this idea that that instinct to label sounds and identify, oh, dangers and things like that is useful for us sometimes. And same thing. So I think that was kind of felt like a blocker for me to try to fully lean into not labeling.

[172:40]

And I think this comes up for me too when I try to do this practice of noting thoughts and just letting them pass by as clouds. And I'm like, well, sometimes my thoughts are kind of useful. So I'm wondering if you have thoughts on how to balance when you can just go and let go and go deep into that versus, in the case you mentioned, in the zendo, in the morning meditation, where sometimes it might require somebody to get up and do something. Yeah. Well, there's no one right answer to that, of course. When it comes to thoughts, noticing thoughts, as we sit in meditation, of course, thoughts will happen. If they are just random thoughts or thoughts that are kind of associated with a recent event, that's very natural because things happen in life.

[173:48]

Your thinking mind will spill it out. when you sit quietly. That's the function of the thinking mind, spilling out thoughts. So you don't need to fight against it. However, your job in meditation, sitting on a cushion during that hour or ten minutes, your job is to notice. So this is how you train your mind to not react. And in the beginning, you may label it because your thinking mind sometimes could be too powerful that without labeling things, it doesn't know what to do, so much energy. So in the beginning, it might be useful to discern anger or something.

[174:51]

you want to label, right? But over time, as your thinking mind becomes quieter or more relaxed, there's no need to do that. And if you start to feel it's kind of becoming mechanic, then drop it. And you don't need to worry about it. However, if you have thoughts that are very strong and recurring, could be anything like if you have a big project coming up a deadline for example you have to figure out what to do and you try to meditate and you keep thinking about your job right then just when you sit down tell yourself in the next 10 minutes I'll put you down behind me and I'll come pick it up I'll pick you up again.

[175:52]

Don't worry about it. I'll pick you up again when I get up from the cushion. And so maybe give yourself a little suggestion when you sit down to not worry about, you know, you have to do this, you have to do that. You don't have to. If it's really urgent, too bad, then don't meditate. Just go do it. Take care of things. Really. Yeah, if someone needs help, get up from your cushion and go help. And meditation is not the magic pill for everything. An open heart is the magic pill. So, So this open heart or mind, we are tapping in.

[176:57]

Every time we have a little bit of clarity or awareness, it's always there. And so that was your job. And if you have something that you always chew on, like some story that you can't let go of, some people you cannot forgive, for example, some fight you had with someone, you just can't get over. The fight was over, but in your head it's not over. If it keeps coming to you with a hint of some suggestion of some emotion attached to it, that means this thing has... created a knot in your mind in your in your in your life there's there are some kind of some threats there got got messed up got knotted up and usually you don't think about it maybe and then when you quiet down it will it will surface

[178:18]

and it's a you don't need to solve it right at that moment but it's good to just notice like a thought comes I play I'm playing that movie again and okay place so so when these movies play themselves you just watch so your job in meditation is to watch and notice. And you don't jump into the movie and become the character again. And so just watch, keep watching. And maybe someday, if it's something very strong, maybe you can process it after through some other means. Talking with someone or writing or doing something. If that's the kind of thought you have, that has some energy, that has some emotional energy behind it, and that keeps coming to get you.

[179:35]

And that's a message. That's a message. You don't have to get away from it. But you also don't have to become it again. I don't know if that's what you were thinking. Yeah, I think I have a lot to think about now. Thank you. Thank you. Well, we have a couple minutes if there's one more question. Yes. I have a question about meditation and the definition of that to you. So when I was in India, one of the yogis I visited, he said that meditation is not necessarily sitting down and breathing and doing all that stuff, but if you are an artist and you are painting and you're in that forest and you're in the zone and you're in that flow state,

[180:54]

painting that and you're just so at in the present and in that moment that also counts as a meditation I was just wondering your interpretation of meditation what I think of that interpretation yes I think meditation is just like a very broad term There is the seated meditation, walking meditation, moving meditation, for example, right? And what's shared in those activities is that when your mind is present in what you do. If your mind is not present, that maybe you might as well call it something else. So... in painting or sport sometimes. Maybe you can call it a painting meditation if you are absorbing what you do. But that's a different mode from, let's say, open awareness that we were practicing just now.

[182:10]

So when you are doing something, you have an object. So your mind has something to attach to. And so you are in the zone, but in the zone there is an object. You do it. And that's one mode of meditation. And the other mode of meditation is there's no object. And you are just wide open. And if there is anything at all, it's the awareness itself is aware. And that's maybe harder for some people, for a lot of people, if you only practice object-oriented meditation. And so I would suggest that we train ourselves to jump in and out of that mode and try these different ways of meditation. And that helps.

[183:11]

This is how our mind is trained. that helps our mind to be more flexible, can zoom in, can zoom out, concentrate, and also observe and be aware. Did I answer your question? Thank you. Yeah. One thing I kind of... Just picking up on what you were saying, it reminds me of, you know, when you're, say, playing the piano and you're trying to learn a song and you're very focused on playing the notes correctly, but after a while, you know, years of playing the same song, you get into this state of mastery, so to speak, and that state is when you don't think about the notes anymore and you're just...

[184:15]

you know, in that moment. Do you feel like that is that moment that you're talking about where you're not focused on something anymore? You're in that... In the action itself? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that, no, that's... Yes and no. So it's similar to, like, being in the zone. When I say open awareness, it's like... I'm open and anything comes to this world of my awareness, there is awareness. So it's not just the piano playing itself. And, well, I mean, it's also not cut and dry. It's not one or two, like the bit. binary bit so in our practice we oftentimes flow in and out of these different modes without us thinking about consciously and the the question is does this practice help me to live in more harmony

[185:41]

within myself and with others. So meditation itself doesn't solve all the problems. Meditation is a good foundation. But we also need to look at our relationships and our ethics in relationships and how we approach things, how we take care of things. And so... Meditation doesn't get to those places, but it gives us a more clear mind and more flexible mind to do that. So, thank you. Well, thank you all very much for joining me today to explore a little bit of harmony. And, of course, there's a lot more we can... think about and talk about.

[186:43]

And I hope there is something you can take from here today. And I would love to hear from you if you have some thoughts afterwards or some feedback and what you have gotten out of it or what you... would love to explore in the future. I would like to hear from you. And here's my information, how you can contact me. And I'm going to leave it here. You can pick one up. And, okay. It's been a pleasure to join you all today. Thank you very much. Thank you. Yeah, I...

[188:06]

Thank you.

[188:13]

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