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Harmonizing Through the Practice Period

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10/4/2017, Rinso Ed Sattizahn dharma talk at City Center.

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The talk addresses the theme of "The Harmony of Difference and Equality" (Sandokai), examining how individual uniqueness and collective unity coexist within Zen practice. It elaborates on how this theme guides practice periods at Zen Centers, emphasizing the importance of group practice to transcend self-centeredness, highlighting the significance of adhering to traditional structures to achieve personal freedom, and exploring individual paths within communal practice frameworks. The discourse also delves into historical contexts and philosophical perspectives in Zen, particularly regarding the balance of personal and communal practices.

  • Sandokai: An 8th-century Zen poem addressing the reconciliation of difference and unity, foundational to understanding Zen practice.
  • Shunryu Suzuki's Teachings: References Suzuki Roshi’s encouragement of group practice to overcome self-centeredness and find personal freedom within ritualistic structures.
  • Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind by Shunryu Suzuki: Discusses the "morrow of Zen" using the metaphor of the four types of horses to explain the value found in differing abilities during practice.
  • "The Morrow of Zen": Highlights that Zen practice's true benefit is found in individual imperfections and the path to realizing one's practice authentically.
  • Zhaozhou's Koan: "Ordinary mind is the way," illustrating that enlightenment is embedded in everyday activities and interactions.

This talk celebrates the historical significance of the first practice period established outside Asia and its evolution, advocating for ongoing, adaptive practice in contemporary settings.

AI Suggested Title: Unity in Diversity: The Zen Path

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Transcript: 

This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good evening, everyone. Welcome to Beginners Mind Temple. I'm curious if there's any people here for the very first time tonight. One. Welcome, special welcome to you. So this will be a slightly unusual, first of all, my name's Ed, I'm the abiding abbot here at City Center, and I'm leading the practice period that's starting yesterday. And so it's traditional on this night to talk a little bit about the practice period

[01:00]

a little bit about the theme of the practice period, a little bit about how one does a practice period. So those of you who are not in the practice period, I hope you find something amusing in the discussion, and maybe it will inspire you to take a practice period sometime later on. So the theme for the practice period is the harmony of difference and equality. Sando Kai is the Japanese pronunciation of the name, and it's a very famous poem written in China in the 8th century, and is kind of a foundational text in Zen. But the title is so wonderful, The Harmony of Difference and Equality. It says it all, right? I mean, in some sense, wouldn't it be wonderful if all our differences could be harmonized with all the ways we feel connected to everybody.

[02:01]

So I have a hand here that has five fingers. Each finger is an individual finger. They all have names. They all do different things. But it's just one hand that harmoniously works usually with the fingers somehow together. And it's the same with my body. I've got a body with all kinds of different parts. But at the same time, the body is kind of trying to harmonize the fact that it's one body and not just a whole bunch of separate parts. And that's also the same for all of us here in this room. I mean, each one of us is a totally unique, absolutely one-of-a-kind person, never been one like you at all. At the same time, because I'm talking to you, there's things going in your ears that are making you part of what's going on in this room, part of this scene. And, of course, neurobiology is telling us that it's much more than that. When I raise my hand, you've got mirror neurons in you that are raising your hands and your head, and part of you is saying, oh, no, my hand's not being raised.

[03:06]

I'm just mirroring what he's doing. So we're interconnected in just all kinds of ways. And so one of the questions in this poem is, how do we deal with that? How do we deal with the fact that we're a completely unique individual person? operating in many ways like that, and at the same way, intimately connected to, well, one would say, everything. So that's my general, just off the top, description of the title of the poem. And you can break it down into the three characters that make up Sandokai. The first character, San, means difference or diversity or variety. In this poem, it indicates the contrast phenomenal aspects of our life. The relative, everything that we can name or discriminately touch, feel, sense, that is san. And the second character, do, means sameness, equality, oneness.

[04:09]

So in this poem it means the absolute or ultimate reality, the ultimate fact of oneness of everything or the emptiness of everything, the interconnectedness of everything. that cannot be, that's beyond discrimination. San, do. Kai, which is the third character, is promise or agreement. Apparently in China, since they always like to use commercial terms, Kai was an agreement, a contract written on a wooden board. So if two merchants came to an agreement, Suzuki Roshi called it shaking hand. Kai is warm hand, shaking hand. So I'm a businessman. I made a deal with somebody. I would shake their hand and they would shake my hand. One agreement, two different people. Anyway, they used to write the agreement on the board and break it in half. And when the goods were delivered, they'd put the board together to make sure that the agreement was finished.

[05:12]

So the Sando Kai refers to these two parts of our life. The concrete, many specific aspects... and the absolute. So, harmony of difference and equality are each completely unique and also connected to one whole reality. How to harmonize that is the essence of our practice as expressed in this poem. So what I want to talk tonight about is what ways do we harmonize that in respect to a practice period where we're working together as a group. So all of us that are in the practice period are in a group together practicing and we're all individually one different people.

[06:14]

And what I thought I would do is So this is the 50th anniversary of the founding of Tassara. I suppose most of you know that. In 1967 on July 3, Tassara was opened with a wonderful opening ceremony. 150 people came to it. Blazingly hot summer day. And they started a practice period. So 70 people spent July and August sitting in that heat doing a 10-week practice period or 8-week practice period. And I think that was the last practice period they did in the summertime. Those of you who have been to the summer at Tassara, they moved the practice periods to the fall and winter, which have their own weather problems. But anyway, at the end of that practice period, Suzuki Roshi gave a talk about the meaning of practice periods. And because I led the 99th practice period down at Tassara, And we just had a celebration up here celebrating the 50th anniversary of this.

[07:20]

I looked this talk up and I'm going to read some paragraphs and share it with you because I think it's lovely. Through the practice period, Buddha's way will be known in America. The practice period originated with Buddha's Sangha during the rainy season in India when the monks could not go wandering from village to village begging and teaching. In Japan, only certain Zen temples are given the privilege of being able to hold practice periods. Now this indispensable practice has begun in America, and it must not be discontinued. Each year we must have at least one practice period. It is indispensable for students at Zen Shinji, Zen Shinji is Tassara, Zen Heart, Mind Temple, and for the existence of Zen Shinji itself. Strict observation of the practice period with qualified teachers and qualified students is one of the foundations of Zen Buddhism and is the most important reason we started Tassara.

[08:25]

So, it's an interesting paragraph. I mean, basically, that practice period was the first time a practice period had been held outside of the Orient. And Suzuki Roshi is saying, this is bringing practice to America. And it must not be discontinued. We must carry this practice on. And it was the most important reason Tassar was started. So, of course, I feel very proud of many people at Zen Center over the last 50 years that have carried on not one, but two practice periods at Tassar every year. So this fall will be the 100th practice period at Tassar. And not only that, we've got practice periods going on at Green Gulch since it was founded in 71, I guess, 2. And we have usually 2 or 3 practice periods going on in the city every year. So we've got practice periods going on galore. There's a little difference, though.

[09:32]

The traditional practice period that Tassar, that Suzuki Roshi was talking about, that we do at Tassar, is 90 days long. And students commit to staying there the whole 90 days. And now we've got practice periods going on here in the city where some students are living out. They're called commuter students, many of you, and come as much as you can. And some students are residential. And some students are listening online from Indonesia and Europe. some various other, I didn't look at all the different countries, but certainly something Suzuki Rishi didn't imagine when he said we should carry on practice periods. So, the practice periods that we're carrying on now, this one here that has all of those three elements, is slightly different than the practice period Suzuki Rishi was talking about when he gave this lecture, but I think the essential elements in the lecture are still the same. So,

[10:33]

The first statement he makes is, it is possible to practice by yourself, but when we practice in a group, we can help each other, and by practicing with people under the same conditions, we can eliminate self-centered practice. The first thing he emphasized was group practice, and by practicing with a group, we can help each other and eliminate self-centered practice. I remember when I first went to Tassar, it was, I don't know, 1970, I ran into a couple of students who had just finished doing a hundred-day sashin out in the woods. Because, you know, back then we were getting into Zen, and so they sat a hundred-day sashin, two of them together, out in the woods. So when he says it is possible to practice by yourself, apparently it is, or at least two of them were. cooking their own food. And I said, well, what did Suki Roshi say about that? And he said, well, Suki Roshi said, maybe that's a little too selfish.

[11:37]

It's kind of an interesting comment. I mean, I know in the Tibetan tradition, they do, you know, three-year retreats, and there's lots of other traditions where practicing alone for long periods of time is, and I, in fact, a very good friend of mine did that, and is an excellent Tibetan teacher. So I'm not saying... You know, there's no fundamental rule there. I'm just saying our practice emphasizes group practice a lot at Zen Center. And that's partly because it's not so easy to do this kind of practice. It's not so easy to do a practice period. It's not so easy to sit a seven-day sashin. I think to do a seven-day sashin by yourself would be pretty challenging. So I think it's really helpful to have other people doing this with you. Plus it has the advantage of, his comment was, it's an interesting comment. We can eliminate self-centered practice.

[12:38]

You know, when you have to cooperate with a lot of other people in doing anything, cooking in the kitchen, setting up the zendo, doing a ceremony, you kind of, you know, you may have your own idea about how you want to slice that vegetable, but maybe the fukaten or the head of the kitchen says, I want you to cut the vegetable this way. And, you know, you have opinions about these things, you know, and we all have a lot of opinions about these things. And so all of your, and most of it's self-concern of some sort. I mean, just observe your mind in a period of zazen for a while and see how much of your thinking is related to you. You know, am I being treated well? Do my knees hurt? Does somebody not like me? Et cetera. So this group practice really helps us our excessive self-concern he goes on the purpose of group practice is not the observation of rules and rituals although the rules do allow you to focus on your practice and to live according to the essentials needed to practice together the purpose is to obtain freedom beyond rules and

[13:59]

and ceremony, to have naturalness, a natural order of body and mind. You're new here, so you don't realize that there's so many rules involved living in this building. I mean, how you walk through the door, how you get onto the Tan, how you cross in front of the altar, how you enter the Zendo, how you pass someone in the hallway. It's staggering. the amount of rules. It's impossible to learn them all. But, so he says, the purpose of group practice is not the observation of rules and rituals. But, he says, although the rules do allow you to focus on your practice, the rules allow you to focus on your practice that wakes you up to have to step through the door with your right foot. There's nothing godly about that. It's just that when you don't, you're reminded, oh, I'm entering the Buddha Hall. So, All these rules allow you to focus on your practice and also to live according to the essentials needed to practice together.

[15:05]

If we didn't have all these rules and we're going to go through them two weeks from tonight when we do the 12-page Shingi review is the way that we all work together and cause at least amount of trouble. So, you know, when you... sign up to do dishes you show up to do dishes and you do the dishes in a certain way and that's why we can walk in the kitchen and there's not a bunch of dirty dishes in the sink and if you're going to live together with 50 people that makes a lot of sense so all of these rules are essential for what it takes to live together in a group and how to improve our mindfulness of our practice which is all very important but of course he immediately says But the purpose is to obtain freedom beyond rules and ceremony. The rules are there to find the freedom beyond the rules. So this is kind of part of the sandokai.

[16:08]

On the one hand, we're going to follow all these rules and work harmoniously together. And on the other hand, these rules are going to allow us to find a freedom to express our unique self. And in ways that we wouldn't if we weren't following all the rules. And anybody that has practiced around Zen Center for a while starts to get the feeling for what that freedom might be. When you don't have to decide what you're doing in the morning, you know when the wake-up bell rings, you're getting up, and you're going to the Zendo. You're going to sit in a particular posture, in a very particular seat. And then... you can be just yourself for 30 minutes. And there's a kind of freedom there. Even though it looks like it's not freedom, it looks like you've had to get up at a certain time and had to go to a certain place and had to sit in a certain way, but still, all of a sudden, there's a freedom in your mind and a freedom in your body that you didn't have when you're so busy doing other things.

[17:16]

So that's the purpose of all these things. forms and rituals. And he has this interesting tagline, to have a naturalness, a natural order of body and mind. A natural order of body and mind. What is that? I'll just leave that as a question. Later on, I'm going to take something from the Sando Kai that might address that. So I'll continue on with Suzuki Rishi. To live in this world means to exist under some condition, moment after moment. We should have the flexibility of mind to adjust our being to these conditions so that when we do change our attitude or circumstances, there will still be a fundamental imperturbability to our minds and bodies. Was that too long a sentence or did you catch it or should I read it again? To live in this world means to exist under some condition moment after moment.

[18:23]

At every moment in our life, we're under all kinds of conditions that are very particular, very relative to this current situation. We have a certain amount of money. We have a certain place to sleep. We have the hardness of a bed. We have the weather. All kinds of conditions are going on all the time that we're adjusting to moment after moment. Usually, we have some complaint. It's our natural way. It's too hot. It's too cold. The food isn't salty enough. My bed is too... whatever. So we're going to be busy whenever we can adjusting the conditions around us to improve our situation. That's mostly what we're doing. But he's got a slightly different approach here. He says, we should have the flexibility of mind to our being to these conditions... So that when conditions change, even after we've got it all fixed up so it's just perfect and then it changes, because that's how it does, or the circumstances change or our mood changes for some reason, there will still be a fundamental imperturbability to our mind and bodies.

[19:34]

What a wonderful idea that one could say, whatever is happening, I am not perturbed. This is one of our practices when we sit zazen, of course, right? Things are going on all the time when we're sitting zazen and part of us is trying to be accessing that composure, that person in us that is not perturbed. This imperturbability gives us absolute freedom and we should practice our way until we obtain this. This is the punchline to this paragraph. Group practice is the shortcut to the imperturbable mind, which is beyond concepts of personal or impersonal, formal or informal. So all these problems you're having with your fellow practitioners that are causing you difficulties, this is actually the shortcut to your imperturbable mind.

[20:42]

All those... difficulties that you have to deal with is the way, the short route to developing your composure in the midst of a changing world. So he goes on. At first, group practice seems restricting, but later you'll find the freedom in it. At the same time, of course, it is easier to observe some rules rather than to practice your individual way or to practice in various ways. Well, that's an interesting sentence. At first group, practice seems restricting, but later you'll find the freedom in it. At the same time, of course, it's easier to observe some rules rather than to practice your individual way or to practice in various ways. So he's saying sometimes it's easier just to... follow the rules, just get good at doing the forms.

[21:46]

And all of us have gone through phases like that. I'm the form master, right? But he's saying, be careful about that. You know, you're just getting into following the rules, but you're not finding your individual way. You're not finding what is your true way to be. How do you find your, instead of just being the good Boy Scouts, or Girl Scout, or whatever person follows rules perfectly. What's your way? So that would be just going with a group way. And he goes on. A person may be said to be a good Zen student if he knows his own way in the true sense, but it is very difficult to know what your own way is. It is very difficult to know what your own way is. I'm just going to go along with what everybody else is doing. What is my own way while I'm harmonizing with the whole group? And he goes on again.

[22:48]

For finding what your own way is, guess what the answer is. Group practice is the best. Sigurish had a message that day. Maybe it was all the people that were complaining about how hot it was and how difficult it was to practice together at Tassara that summer. How do you know your own way in the true sense? That's the kind of question I leave there. I'm going to address that a little bit later. So I'm going to finish with the last paragraph of this marvelous lecture, which has some fun sides. For example, Buddhist ceremonies are too complicated to do perfectly. Isn't that nice? I mean, he was practicing ceremonies since he was 12 years old. And he was 67, 63 years old then. They're too complicated to do perfectly. And so in our observation of them, we can see our own way and not just the way of the ceremony.

[23:51]

So it's just a ceremony is a mirror of life itself. You're busy trying to coordinate with the other people in the room. Somebody's handing you something. You're doing something. So you're trying to do the ceremony good, but what is your way? What is your feeling? What is your sense when you're doing a full bow to the floor? And in learning to accommodate ourselves to the practice of others and to our teachers, we will find out how to communicate with others, with all worlds and their various Buddhas. This is not just verbal communication. It is more direct than that. It is person to person, and beyond any specific way. This is known as the bodhisattva way. So the simplest possible example is when we're chanting together in service, we say we chant with our ears, right? Because we're trying to harmonize with everybody else. But at the same time, we're uniquely expressing our own voice.

[24:56]

And that's a physical thing that's beyond verbal communication. And the way we move together. All of these things are part of a way in which we're harmonizing and expressing at the same time our uniqueness. So I do have to say something about the Sandokai, since that's the theme, so... So here's the first four lines of the Sandokai. The mind of the great sage of India is intimately transmitted from west to east. West India, when this was written, this was written in China and India was to the west. So the mind of the great sage of India, the great sage of India is Buddha. Buddha's mind was transmitted from India to China and all the way to Japan and all the way over to America. The mind So first of all, I think that's an interesting sentence in itself.

[26:02]

So I've already said the teachings have been transmitted to us, how you do a practice period, all the forms of the practice period, all the rituals, the ceremonies of a practice period. We've got sutra books translated. We've got all kinds of stuff that's been brought to us. But this teacher is saying, but more important than all of that, the mind of Buddha has been transmitted. Buddha said when he was enlightened, I and all beings on earth together attain enlightenment at the same time. That awakened mind is here today. That's what Shudo says, the author of this poem. And I'm not going to spend much time talking about this. You could do a whole lecture on this, and I'm going to somewhere else tonight. But I'll just leave you with this. When you're sitting zazen, besides the crazy monkey mind that's going on, wonder or look or see if you can find Buddha's mind with you sitting at the same time.

[27:21]

So the next two lines is what I want to really talk about. While human faculties are sharp or dull, the way has no northern or southern ancestors. So there's a lot of history in this which I'm going to go through during the lectures I give on Tuesday nights having to do with two factions in Zen. Zen Buddhism had moved into China and China was trying to figure out what this Indian Buddhism was that had come from somewhere else and there were factions that had one view on what training was and other factions that had another view on what training was. One faction said it was gradual and the other faction said it was instantaneous and there was northern school and there's stuff written about it. Which is fascinating to get into, but we're not going to get into that tonight. We're going to try to find out what does it mean when he says, while human faculties are sharp or dull, the way has no northern or southern ancestors. Human faculties are sharp or dull.

[28:33]

What that kind of at the first surface means, well, some people are sharp Zen students and some people are dull Zen students, right? And there's special teaching, the way, for sharp people and then I kind of modified not so great but okay teaching for the rest of us dull people. That might be one interpretation. But I don't think that's what Sherdo's interpretation is. I think Sherdo's interpretation is, while there are human faculties that are sharp or dull, the way has no preference between the northern or the southern way. Both ways work for everybody. And I'm reminded of this marvelous lecture called The Morrow of Zen and Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind, where Suzuki Roshi talked about the four horses. Are you people familiar with that? You know, the one horse moves to the right, moves to the left, goes fast or slow without even the whip touching them.

[29:37]

And the next horse moves just as well with just the touch of the whip on them. And then the third horse, you know, the whip has to strike to the skin pretty well, and it still doesn't move. And the fourth horse, you know, it's got to go to the marrow of his bones before he moves back and forth. And Sukarashi was saying, when you hear this story, all of us want to be... The best horse, the one that moves fastest. But to summarize what he said here is basically, but for Zen, that's not the way. If you think the aim of Zen practice is to train you to become one of the best horses, you have a big problem. This is not the right understanding. If you practice Zen in the right way, it does not matter whether you are the best horse or the worst horse. When you consider the mercy of Buddha, how do you think Buddha will feel about the four kinds of horses? And then he goes on to talk about the fact that when you practice Zazen with the great mind of Buddha, you'll find the worst horse is the most valuable one.

[30:51]

In your very imperfections, you will find the basis for your firm, way-seeking mind. Those who can sit perfectly physically usually take more time to obtain the true way of Zen. The actual feeling of Zen, the morrow of Zen, those who find great difficulties in practicing Zen will find more meaning in it. So I think sometimes the best horse may be the worst horse, and the worst horse may be the best horse. And he says some more about other stuff and ends with, in its true sense, it's easier for those who have difficulties in sitting to arouse the true waking-seeking mind than those who can sit easily. So, of course, we go through periods in our practice where we're the best horse and periods in our practice when we're the worst horse. And we should value the times when we think we're the worst horse.

[31:55]

Typically we don't. We think, oh, my practice is terrible now. I've got to get back to being the best horse again. But that evaluation of your practice is, first of all, I think missing the real point. I mean, although it is possible to make many distinctions in our practice, that person sits really well, meditates well, that person is so scholarly, that person has so much energy. I mean, there's a zillion distinctions we can make, and we make them about ourselves and our own practice. That doesn't get to the heart of the way. Our practice is operating at a much subtler way than that. And the fact is, it isn't that there's one practice for sharp people and one practice for dull people. There's a practice for every individual person.

[33:00]

Your practice is your totally unique practice. That's what he means by finding your true way. What is your practice? And... I'm going to just pick up a phrase that I wrote down. The only way the truth, san do, do, the absolute, is manifested is in the practice of the individual practitioner. It appears as your practice. The do, the truth of Dharma, does not exist in any other place than in the san, that is the relative nature of your practice. True practice exists in your individual practice. particular relative practice. Does that make sense? Do you believe it? Well, probably you don't.

[34:06]

Or you wonder. So I'm just picking a few sentences out of Sandokai to kind of push home a point here. Hearing the words, understand the meaning, don't set up standards of your own. So you hear the words, the meaning of the Dharma. And he says, don't set up standards of your own. So you think, well, maybe I'm not supposed to have my own standards of practice. I'll borrow someone else's. I'll borrow Zen Center standards of practice. But I don't think that's what he means when he says, don't set up standards of practice. He's saying... All ideals, all virtues, all teachings are standards, and all standards end up being tyrannical. We complain about various hierarchies and bosses and oppressive regimes, but the biggest tyrant of all is oneself.

[35:07]

As soon as you set up a standard of what your practice should be, then you can tyrannize yourself about what a lousy practitioner you are. You understand what I'm talking about here, don't you? And we're the worst critics of our practice. So, hearing the words understand the meaning. When you understand the meaning, it means that you have to let go of all your standards. Then your teacher is life itself and everyone you face. and your path is kindness. Shiro says, you should understand this and embrace it, then you will always know what to do and where to go, even when you, where to go, even when you don't, I don't know what I wrote down there, even when you don't something.

[36:15]

go back to my word processor and find out what the rest of that is. So I'm just pointing out, and Shirdo's pointing out, a classic problem with finding your true way, which is to be overly critical by having set up standards of your own practice. I don't know what to do next. There was one other sentence I wanted to talk about, which I thought related to this finding our true, our own way, trusting our own way. And it's, if you don't understand the way right before you, how will you know the path as you walk?

[37:19]

So if you don't understand the way right before you, how will you understand the path as you walk? So what is the way right before you? And there's a famous koan around this that you're all familiar with. A student comes up to the teacher and says, what is the way? And the teacher says, ordinary mind is the way. So that's good news because your ordinary mind is with you all the time. The bad news is, what does that mean? And Zhao Zhou is suggesting that ordinary things, speaking to someone, having breakfast, doing dishes, driving to work, shopping, worrying about work, upset with a friend, and so on, that is ordinary way. everyday way activities.

[38:22]

All these things that we have limited and reduced by our preconceptions and habits of mind, by our conditioning, by our stories, are in fact something vast, unknown, and mysterious. Washing dishes, vast, unknown, and mysterious. If we could only let go and shed ourselves of our preconceptions, our limited ways of looking at things, we could find joy and satisfaction with everything. Really, with everything in our lives. I think this is what makes Zen practice so wonderful. The recognition that is not about special activity. It is about each and every activity. What is in front of you will heal you and awaken you. This is about honoring the depth and poignancy of ordinary human life.

[39:24]

That's the path, the way that's right in front of you. Ordinary human life with all of its poignancy and joy. So I think I'm going to end with that. But not quite. I'll probably end every lecture I give during this practice period with the final sentence from the Sandhu Kai. I respectfully urge you who study the mystery, do not pass your days and nights in vain. Those of you who are brave enough to come to a practice period, to wonder what life is about, to really question what am I doing with my life What is the meaning of my life? What should I be doing? Actually kind of ponder the enormous mystery of this.

[40:31]

I was reading in some book by some astrophysicist, I have no idea if this is true, but he's a famous astrophysicist, that at the very beginning in the Big Bang, the entire universe was smaller than that. Tiny, tiny little pinpoint. And now it's become this. That is an amazing story. That's hard to believe, isn't it? Billions of galaxies with billions of stars? Possible. A human life? There's more brain cells, I think, in the... We have more neurons in our brains than our stars in a galaxy. Or in all the galaxies, I think, is what someone told me. It's just all so... incredible that it's beyond anything and of course we have no idea how we're even running our life it seems to be on autopilot I respectfully urge you who study the mystery who actually are willing to study what it means to be a human being and take on the responsibility for that because we certainly know we kind of

[41:50]

cause a lot of incidental damage in the process, to not pass your days and nights in vain. Or as Suzuki Roshi would fondly say, don't goof off. So thank you very much for your evening. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, please visit sfzc.org and click Giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[42:39]

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