Good afternoon, everyone. Do you all have this handout? No. Oh, it's here? Could you pass it around? While it's passing around... Two weeks ago, I went to Green Gorge and talked about a kind of an introduction of Sanseikyo, or Mountains and Waters Sutra. I talked about another poem by Sushin. Someone who was there two weeks ago at Green Gorge,

[01:06]

a French person, listened to what I said this morning. He might be surprised, because I said almost the opposite thing. The poem I quoted two weeks ago at Green Gorge is as follows. Regarded from one side, this is a poem about Mount Lu, a very famous mountain in China for its beauty. Regarded from one side, an entire range from another, a single peak,

[02:08]

far, near, high, low, all its parts different from the others. If the true face of Mount Lu cannot be known, it is because the one looking at it is standing in its midst. So here, Sushin said, he couldn't see the true face of Mount Lu, because he is inside the mountain. And I don't agree with this translation. Because this said, if he cannot see the true face, that is because he is inside the mountain. But I don't think this is if. I don't think this is if closed, but always.

[03:10]

There is no way we can see the true face of Mount Lu, because we are within the mountain. So that means we cannot see. And this morning I said we cannot see. And I think those two opposite things were actually said by Dogen. So is Dogen contradicting? I think this is a very important point to study and understand what Dogen is trying to say in this facet of Sansui-kyo, or mountains, water, water's sutra. Everyone has the text.

[04:13]

Then, this afternoon, so this is one point of the Sansui-kyo. And please keep this point in your mind when you read Sansui-kyo. This morning, no, this afternoon, I'd like to talk as a kind of introduction of this study of Shogo Genzo Sansui-kyo. First, I'd like to talk about this text, and then maybe I'll talk on a brief kind of a summary of Dogen's life and his writings. And if I have time,

[05:15]

I'm going to talk on the meaning of the title, what is Shogo Genzo, what is Sansui-kyo, the meaning of the title. First of all, the handout you have is a copy of the newsletter Darumai from Soto Zen Education Center. This issue is featured by the translation of Dogen because at the headquarters of Japanese Soto school now has a translation project of Soto-shu text. Karl Bielefeld has been working on translation of Shogo Genzo. And Griffith Falk made a translation of

[06:23]

together with American Soto Zen teachers made a new translation of Sutras. You have been using this. I'm not sure whether you like it or not. But anyway, that's a part of that project. And Griffith is also working on the book of ceremonies, ceremonies and rituals. So Karl Bielefeld has been working on translation of Shogo Genzo, but it takes a long time, maybe at least 10 years or so. It has been already five years past. I'm a member of the editorial board of that project. We decided to put one chapter of Shogo Genzo each time

[07:30]

in this newsletter. Then people can see what's going on. And since Sansui-kyo was as he wrote in his essay, and Karl wrote in his essay titled Circumambulating the Mountains and Waters, he described his own experience about translation of Sansui-kyo. So we put the translation of Sansui-kyo as the first translation in this issue. This was published in October last year. The back issues of this newsletter are in the library of the Zen Center, so if you are interested in the back issues, please go to the library.

[08:32]

I copied three or four essays beside the translation of the text itself. The first one was written by Nara Yasuaki. He is the editorial board chair of this project, and he described about this project. And we asked three American people who have been working on translation of Dogen. Those are Karl Wilfred, Taigen, Dan Leighton, and Kazu Tanahashi. We asked them to write about their experience of translating Dogen. And I think it's very interesting to you,

[09:40]

so please read those articles if you like. In his article, Karl said, first he translated Sansui-kyo in 1971 at Tasahara with Suzuki Shunryu Roshi's help. So he has been working on Sansui-kyo for a long time. So I'm kind of honored to use his translation of Sansui-kyo as a text of this Dogen.

[10:40]

I think his translation is very good, very good translation. Of course, any translation has limitation. And I also have been working on translation of Dogen. So sometimes I feel very kind of sad, because in the process of translation, so many things are lost or changed. So I think what I can do is to fill the gap. Because I have been studying Shogokenzo in Japanese, in Japanese way, and my English is not really good, but somehow I have been working on translation and talking about Dogen in English.

[11:45]

So one thing I can contribute to American Zen, as I said yesterday, this morning, is to fill that gap. And I hope it's helpful for you. Anyway, so I start to talk on Dogen's life. Maybe better to write the numbers. How many people know Dogen? I mean, his life, about his life. Do you need some information about his life? He was born in 1200,

[12:48]

so exactly 802 years ago. Because he was born in this age, it's very easy to count his age. And what we know is, we don't know much about Dogen's life, but I just say what we really know, not really or not. 1213, he was ordained as a Tendai monk. So he was 13 years old. And every 10 years, he had a big change. 1223, he went to China. And 1233, he founded his own monastery, named Koshoji.

[13:50]

And 1243, he left that monastery in Kyoto, or near Kyoto, and moved to Fukui Prefecture, or Echizen in ancient name, and established AHE. And 1253, he died. So every 10 years, he had a big change. We don't know who were his parents. Traditionally, his father's name was Minamoto Michichika. And this person died when Dogen was 2 years old. And his mother died when he was 8 years old. So he became orphan. But modern scholars have different theory. Some modern scholars think the person who died in 1202

[15:03]

was not his father, but his grandfather. So his father was alive until 1227, when Dogen came back from China. But it seems his mother died when he was 8 years old. Anyway, he became a monk in 1213. At Mt. Hiei. Mt. Hiei was the main monastery of Japanese Tendai school at that time. Hiei is the name of the mountain on which the monastery was located. The name of the monastery was Enryaku-ji. When he was about 14 or 15 years old,

[16:09]

he had a question about Mahayana teaching. He said, everything and all people has Buddha nature or Dharma nature. Then why Buddhas and ancestors had to practice, had to allow body and mind, and study Dharma, and practice hard, and attain enlightenment? If everything is already, everything is itself Buddha nature or Dharma nature, why do we have to practice? Why do we have to study? In a sense, it's a very simple question. And there are many answers in Mahayana teachings. But somehow he didn't like those answers.

[17:12]

Or at least he was not satisfied by those answers. So he left this monastery and started to practice Zen in 1217. So he was a Tendai monk only about 5 years. At that time, he practiced Zen at Kenrinji Monastery, founded by Eisai. Eisai was the first Japanese priest who went to China and received transmission from Chinese Rinzai Zen Master and came back to Japan and established Zen Monastery. Eisai established a few monasteries or temples,

[18:15]

but Kenrinji in Kyoto was the main one. Eisai died in 1215. And here is another kind of problem for scholars. I don't care whether Dogen met Eisai or not. It's a good discussion. Some people say yes, some people say no. We don't know. I don't care. But at Kenrinji, Dogen practiced Zen with Myozen, who was Eisai's disciple. And so for six or seven years, Dogen practiced Rinzai Zen at Kenrinji Monastery in Kyoto with this teacher, Myozen. And Myozen and Dogen went to China together

[19:23]

to study Zen with a Chinese Zen master. And he stayed in China until 1227. So he stayed in China for five years. First, he practiced with a Rinzai master who was the abbot of a monastery named Tendozan Kentokuji. I don't know Chinese pronunciation. Anyway, the abbot of that monastery was Musai Ryoha. And somehow this abbot died about one and a half years later. Before he practiced at that monastery, one important thing in his life is

[20:26]

he met a Tenzo person from another monastery and he had a dialogue recorded in his instruction for Tenzo. I try not to go into detail, otherwise it takes one hour. Anyway, that was a very important experience for Dogen. Because in Japan, he was from a very high-class family. And in the Japanese monastic system in that time, people from high society became high-class priests. That means those priests, people from high society, didn't work actually. They could focus on study and practice some kind of meditation and ceremonies.

[21:33]

And there are people from low-class families, low-class monks, and they took care of the high-class people. And Dogen was from a very high-class family. His father was... no, actually his grandfather was the naitaijin, that means the secretary of the emperor. Traditionally, it's said his mother's father was a prime minister. Anyway, so probably he didn't think working like cooking in the kitchen was a work, not a practice, but a work for low-class people. Studying Buddhist teaching, or zen koan, or doing ceremonies,

[22:40]

those things are the practice for the monks. But when he met with this Chinese tenzo, it seems he found the difference between Japanese Buddhism at that time and Chinese practice in the monasteries, the true spirit of zen. And that was influenced in his life and his teaching and his monastic practice in Japan after he went back to Japan. Anyway, because the abbot of that monastery, Musa Ryoha, died, Dogen left the monastery to visit other different monasteries. And his biography said he didn't find a true teacher, a good teacher for him.

[23:51]

So he was disappointed, and he wanted to go back to Japan. But during his travel, he found the new abbot of the same temple, whose name was Nyojo, was a very good teacher. So he went back to that monastery and met with this Zen master, Nyojo, or Jūchin in Chinese. And he found this is my teacher. And unfortunately, his teacher from Japan, Nyojo, died almost at the same time when Dogen met this teacher. After that, he practiced with Nyojo or Jūchin for about two more years, and he received transmission and came back from China to Japan in 1227.

[24:55]

So he was still in his twenties. He was very young. And the first three years, he stayed at the same temple, Kenrin-ji, in Kyoto. But somehow, he had to leave. And also, Kenrin-ji was a Rinzai Zen monastery combined with Tendai tradition. That was not the best place for Dogen. So he left, and he moved to the outside of Kyoto. The name of the place was Fukakusa. Today, Fukakusa is part of Kyoto city, but at the time of Dogen, it was out of town. This is outside of the capital.

[25:57]

And the first three years, he lived by himself. And in 1231, Dogen wrote Bendowa. Right after he went back to Japan in 1227, he wrote Fukanzazengi, or The Universal Recommendation of the Zen. Fukanzazengi was the very first writing of Dogen. And this Bendowa, written in 1331, the English translation of this Bendowa is, my translation of Bendowa is, Wholehearted Practice of the Way. And in 1233, he established his own monastery named Kosho-ji,

[26:58]

maybe because people came to him to practice with him. And in this year, he wrote Genjo-ko, and Makahanya Haramitsu. Haramitsu. These are the first writings later compiled in Shobo-genzo. Genjo-ko-an, I think you know Genjo-ko-an. And Makahanya Haramitsu is a very short writing about Mahaprajna Paramita. It's a kind of Dogen's comment on the Heart Sutra. Anyway, so this 1233 is the beginning of his career as a teacher. He started to practice with his own assembly.

[28:03]

And next year, 1234, Dogen wrote Gakudo Yojinshu. Gakudo Yojinshu is a collection of ten independent essays about the things we should keep in mind when we practice the way. And I think 1235, he built his own, not a monastery, but a zendo or sodo monk's hall. And people came, more and more people came to practice with him. And in 1336 or 1337, he wrote Genjo-kyokun, in order to give the people who came to practice with him,

[29:14]

to give instruction on how, what kind of attitude the practitioners should maintain toward practice, not in terms of just sitting or studying Dharma, but also working in the daily activities. And in 1238, I think, he wrote Ikka no Myoji, or One Bright Pearl, or Ikka no Myoji, yeah, One Piece of Bright Pearl. This is one of the third writings in Shobo Genzo. In this case, Gendo is not included in Shobo Genzo. And after that, after 1238 or 1339,

[30:21]

next year, he started to write many chapters of Shobo Genzo. And the Sansui-kyo was written in 1240. And until 1243, when he moved to Echizen, he wrote 47 chapters. Shobo Genzo altogether has 95 chapters. So more than half was written by the year 1243. And he moved to Echizen and established his own monastery again, first named Daibutsu-ji, or Great Buddha Temple.

[31:24]

And a few years later, in 1246, he changed the name of the temple from Daibutsu-ji to Eihei-ji. Eihei means eternal peace, so temple of eternal peace. But this Eihei was also the name of the era in China when Buddhism was first transmitted or introduced. That was the first century, I think, 1867. So people think the reason why Dogen named his monastery as Eihei-ji is that was the first time, really, truly, Buddha Dharma was transmitted to Japan. I'm not sure if that's true or not.

[32:29]

Anyway, so he changed the name of the monastery in 1246. And from this year, since he stopped writing so many chapters of Shobo Genzo, he put more emphasis on giving Dharma discourse at the Dharma Hall. Of course, he had been giving formal Dharma discourse from Kosho-ji when he built the first Dharma Hall. But after this, since he didn't write many Shobo Genzo anymore, but he gave, let's see, about 70 or 80 Jodo or Dharma discourses a year.

[33:39]

That means more than twice a week, and at least once a week. And those Jodo or formal Dharma discourses were compiled, recorded in Chinese and compiled by his student, and later named Eihei-koroku, or extensive record of Eihei Dogen Zen-ji. So he practiced at Eihei-ji 10 more years, and in 1253 he died. So his life is rather short as a Zen master. That was a very brief description of Dogen's life. So he spent his entire life just to search the way to study the Dharma.

[34:50]

And after he found the Dharma through his teacher, he really focused on transmitting that Dharma to Japan trying to establish a community where people could really practice with a genuine spirit of Dharma. That was all he did in his life. So his life was very simple, nothing dramatic. Just sit, study, teach, that's all. So, do you think you need a break?

[36:01]

You don't need? Okay. Can I talk just 90 minutes straight? Okay. So that was his life. And as I said, Shobo Genzo Sansui-cho, Mountains and Rivers Sutra, was written in 1240. That was when he was 40 years old. And he was still in Kyoto at Kosho-ji. To me, this is kind of an important point. At least I understand, I study and understand Sansui-cho. Because the very first sentence of Sansui-cho, he says, these mountains and waters of the present are the expression of the old Buddhas.

[37:11]

So mountains and waters at this moment. So he is trying to talk, he talks about the waters, mountains and waters, right at this moment. And at least for me, these mountains and waters are kind of associated with Dogen's life at Eheiji. Eheiji was in very deep mountains. And Dogen really loved the mountains. And he often talked about the mountains and cold winter in Echizen. And for a long time, my understanding of Sansui-cho was associated with that scenery

[38:17]

in which Dogen really lived. But somehow I found it was not at Echizen or Eheiji he wrote Sansui-cho. When he wrote Sansui-cho, he was in Kyoto. I'm from that area. I was born in Osaka, not far from Kyoto. So I know the geography of that area. There's no high mountains. The highest mountain in that area is Mount Hiei. It's the only... And another one is Mount Atago and Mount Hiei. But I don't think Dogen wrote about those mountains. Otherwise, around Kyoto, there aren't high mountains.

[39:18]

So, Koyasan is not far away to the south. So, even though he's discussing about the mountains and waters at the present moment, this is not the mountain he really lived. That's a kind of strange thing I found. And I tried to find what this means. Why did he say mountains and waters at this moment? Well, at the time, maybe it was, you know, there was a lot of Taoist influence in the Chinese Buddhism. Of course. Some of the interpretations, I mean, when you're talking about mountains, you're not really talking about mountains. He might not have been around, like, that mountain right there. He might have just been talking about the idea, or the mountain is just there.

[40:23]

Yeah, that is what I'm trying to say. So, mountains in Sanseicho, in this writing, in this particular writing, these mountains and waters is not where he lived, but it's a kind of ideal thing. Later, after he moved to Eheiji, he really lived in the mountains. I'm not sure whether you agree with me or not, but this is a very kind of important point to understand what he's discussing about. So, he doesn't really discuss about real mountains where he lived, but this is a kind of an idea of mountains and rivers. Of course, in Chinese culture and religion and culture, and also Japanese religions and cultures, mountains are very important, both in Chinese religion, like Taoism,

[41:28]

and also Japanese religion, like Shinto or Shugendo. But somehow, his talking in Sanseicho is very different from the religious practice in the mountains. For example, in the case of Japanese Shugendo, Shugendo is a very old folk religion of Japan from maybe prehistoric age, and that's combined with Buddhism, after Buddhism was transmitted, and it's called Shugendo. So, Shugendo means practice, and Do means way. This is a kind of a combination of Buddhist and Shinto teaching and practice.

[42:38]

As a Buddhist element, this is basically tantric or mikyo, or esoteric Buddhism. Did you say ecstatic? No, esoteric. Oh, esoteric. And what those practitioners do is, in order to purify their mind and body, they stay in the mountains and do a kind of ascetic practice. You know, eating only nuts, or walk long distance every day, or climb up really steep mountains. But what Dogen is writing here has nothing to do with such a thing. But he's writing, mountains are walking.

[43:46]

What this means? I think that's the point I'd like to say from his life, Dogen's life, in order to study this particular writing, titled San Sui Kyo. Now, I am going to talk on the title, Shobo Genzo and San Sui Kyo. Shobo Genzo is a very famous writing, so I think all of you know this word, Shobo Genzo.

[44:53]

And the translation of this Shobo Genzo is, in the case of Carl's translation, Treasury of the Eye of the True Dharma. Treasury of the Eye of the True Dharma. I try to translate it as, True Dharma Eye Treasury. Because the connection between eye and treasury is not, how can I say, clear to me. And this expression, Shobo Genzo, is not such an old expression. It was made in China, not from India. And even in the history of Chinese Zen, it's relatively new.

[45:58]

This expression is well known as one of the koans in the Mumonkan, or Gateless Barrier. This expression appeared in the story of transmission, Dharma transmission, from the Shakyamuni Buddha to Mahakasyapa. According to the story, the koan story, in the Mumonkan, it said, one day, in front of the many people, many disciples, Shakyamuni Buddha picked up one stalk of budombara, I don't know what kind, some kind of flower, without saying anything.

[47:11]

Then the eldest, or most senior student of Shakyamuni, Mahakasyapa-sama, smiled. Then, Shakyamuni Buddha said, according to Mumonkan, Shakyamuni Buddha said, I have the true Dharma eye, the marvelous mind of Nirvana, the true form of the formless, and the subtle Dharma gate. Independent of words and transmitted beyond doctrine, this I have entrusted to Mahakasyapa. This is what Shakyamuni Buddha said when he transmitted Dharma to Mahakasyapa.

[48:22]

So, Shobo Genzo is the name of the Dharma, which was transmitted from Buddha to Mahakasyapa, and after Mahakasyapa, you know, many generations, until, in this case, Dogen. Or until Wasu. So, Shobo Genzo is a part of a longer name, or a longer expression. In Japanese, the full name of this Dharma is Shobo Genzo Nehan Myoshin Jisso Muso Mimyo no Homon. That is one word. And, in this translation, this translator doesn't translate treasury, or Zo, he only says the true Dharma eye.

[49:36]

Because it's kind of difficult to understand what treasury or Zo means. That's what I'd like to discuss now. And the rest of the names of this Dharma are marvelous mind of Nirvana, marvelous or wondrous, Myoshin, wondrous Dharma, or wondrous mind of Nirvana. Of course, Nirvana is the opposition of samsara. So, this Nehan Myoshin, or wondrous mind of Nirvana, means the life. In this case, mind doesn't mean our human psychology. But this mind is Buddha mind, and Buddha mind is not psychology. But Uchiyama Roshi, my teacher, often said, this is not mind, but this is life.

[50:47]

Life includes mind, but mind is part of life. So, life, in this case, mind, includes body, too. And, next part is true form of the formless, or Jisso Muso. Jisso is true form, and Muso is no form. Jisso Muso, that means, this came from the Diamond Sutra, the true reality of all beings. True form is no form, or true form is not form. That is the expression in the Diamond Sutra, to express emptiness.

[51:50]

True form is no form. This means, true form of each and everything, or true form of our life, has no form. This is a kind of important point when we study Zen, and also Dogen's teaching. Dogen often discusses about true form of all beings, or Shoho Jisso. And this Shoho Jisso has no form, formless. No form is true form. But Dogen often said that we should see both sides, form and no form. Our true form has both form and no form.

[52:58]

Within Muso, our form is here, and no or Mu is also there. So Mu and So are together. And according to Dogen, this is two sides of one coin, or two sides of one reality. So we should see both sides. Anyway, that is, true form has no form, or true form is no form. This is the way all things are, according to Mahayana Buddhism. And that Dharma has been transmitted from Buddha to Mahakasyapa and later generations.

[54:04]

So, this is the most well-known, popular source of this expression, Shobo Genzo. But, you know, Momonkan, or Gateless Barrier, was written or compiled in 1228. That is a year, one year after Dogen left China. So it's clear he didn't read Momonkan. And older than text, older than literature, made in the 10th century or 11th century. Like the oldest collection of koan stories, not really koan stories, but the oldest collection of biographies of the masters.

[55:15]

It was titled Sodoshu. Sodoshu is a collection of ancestral hole. That was compiled in 945, I think, in the middle of 10th century. Actually by a Korean master or student. And the next one, the most well-known in China, was Keitoku Dentoku. That is a collection of 1,700 koans. That means, in that collection, 1,700 people, biographies of 1,700 Zen masters are collected. What is the title of that again?

[56:18]

Keitoku Dentoku. And this was compiled in, let's see, how do you say in English? 1-0-0-3, 10-0-3, I mean 4, 10-0-4. So very beginning of 11th century. So it's about 200 years before Dogen. In those texts, in the story of Dharma transmission from Shakyamuni to Mahakasyapa, what the Buddha said about the Dharma he has are different. Not Shobo Genzo, but what Buddha said according to Keitoku Dentoku.

[57:21]

Keitoku Dentoku is often translated into English as a transmission of Dharma land. Instead of Shobo Genzo, Buddha said Shojo Hogen. Shojo Hogen is kind of an authentic Buddhist term from China. I'm from India. Shojo Hogen means clear and pure Dharma eye. So there's no treasuring. It's very understandable without treasuring. What treasuring means here, at least to me, is difficult to understand. What is treasuring? And I inquired a long time ago, what is treasuring or Zo in Shobo Genzo means.

[58:27]

Shobo Genzo is clear, true Dharma eye. That is Buddha's wisdom which sees through the Dharma or all things as they are. That is true Dharma eye without any distortion. Buddha's wisdom sees everything, reality of all things without any distortion. By our three poisonous minds, that is Shobo Genzo. That is clear. But what Zo means, treasuring, I didn't understand. And another expression without Zo, without Gen or Eye, Shobo Zo, is also often used from India. Shobo Zo, treasury of two, that means Tripitaka.

[59:30]

In this case, this treasury is a translation of Sanskrit word Pitaka. Pitaka, English. Basket, three baskets of Buddhist scriptures, that is Sutra, Shastra, or commentary of the Sutra, and Vinaya. Those are called three Pitakas. And we call it Kyo Zo, Ron Zo, and Ritsu Zo. So if this Zo means Pitaka, it's clear. The meaning is clear. But what is a Pitaka, or basket, or treasure of this Eye, Dharma Eye? So another interpretation of Shobo Genzo is Shobo Zo and Shobo Gen.

[60:34]

That means a collection of true Dharma. And also the Eye which sees the true Dharma. That is wisdom. But if we translate treasury of Eyes of true Dharma, or treasury of true Dharma Eye, it sounds like this treasury, or in this treasury, the Eye is stored. True Dharma Eye is stored. What does this mean? I don't really understand. If Dharma or scriptures are stored, it's very clear. But this treasury in which true Dharma Eye is stored, I don't really understand. And actually no one really understands. And actually this expression, or even this story about transmission between Buddha and Mahakasyapa,

[61:46]

appeared not in the sutras, maybe in India. But it's said this story appeared in the sutra titled Dai Bon Ken O Bon Butsu Ketsugi Kyo I'm sorry. It means the great, what is Bon Ken? Brahma, the Indian god, asked Buddha, gave a question to Buddha, and resolved his doubt or questions. This is the title of this sutra. But no one had ever seen this sutra. It's said it was stored at a storage in a certain palace of the emperor.

[62:54]

But no one really read it. There's no evidence such a sutra really existed. And even if it existed, it was made in China. And because this story appeared only after the Keto Kudendoroku, in the case of Sodoshu, the collection of ancestral holds, and Keto Kudendoroku, the record of Dharma lamps, there's no such story of Buddha picking a flower and smiling. This story was made after Keto Kudendoroku, that means after the 11th century. So you don't need to believe that it really happened. So historically, this expression, Shobo Genzo, is kind of questionable.

[64:09]

We don't know the source of this expression, and I'm not sure of the meaning of this expression. But somehow, a Chinese Rinzai Zen master whose name was Daiei Soko, he was about 100 years before Dogen, so he lived in the 12th century, collected 600 koan stories and titled Shobo Genzo. So Dogen's Shobo Genzo is not original. But this Zen master, Daiei Soko, he's a really great and well-known Zen master in Rinzai tradition. He was a contemporary of Soto Zen master whose name was Wanshi Shogaku.

[65:20]

Wanshi and Daiei were close friends. And yet, they had kind of a famous argument. Daiei called Wanshi's or Soto's way of practice as Mokusho Zen. Mokusho means silent illumination Zen. He put one more word, Mokusho Ja Zen. Ja means evil or mistake. So Daiei criticized Mokusho Zen or Wanshi's style. But Wanshi took this word Mokusho or silent illumination as a positive expression of his style of practice and wrote a kind of a long poem entitled Mokusho Mei.

[66:23]

And Dogen's lineage came from Wanshi's Dharma brother, whose name was Shinketsu Seiryo or Choguro Seiryo. If you chant the lineage, you can see this person, Shinketsu Seiryo. So, Dogen is, of course, in the Soto lineage. And Dogen criticized Daiei very strongly. But somehow, he borrowed the title of Daiei's collection of Goan stories, Shogo Genzo, to his own collection of Goan stories. He made, I think, in his thirties, while he was at Koshoji, he collected 300 Goan stories.

[67:27]

He just collected, he didn't make any comments. He just collected 300 Goan stories. And he titled this collection Shogo Genzo. And much later, probably after he moved to Eheiji, he also titled the collection of his Japanese writings Shogo Genzo. So, actually, there are three Shogo Genzo. One is by Daiei. The first one is by Dogen. That is simply a collection of 300 stories. And this one, the most famous one, at least for us, is Dogen's writings in Japanese.

[68:30]

So, I'm sorry, but I don't really understand what Shogo Genzo means. Do you have some idea? One possibility is, as I said, Shogo Zo and Shogo Gen. They are the treasury or storehouse of true Dharma. That is his writings. And also, Shogo Gen, true Dharma, Ai. So, two things. But if this is a treasury or storehouse of true Dharma, Ai, what this storehouse means, I really don't... I have no idea. Question? I know nothing. But it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that it could be the treasury or storehouse of what is seen by the true Dharma, Ai.

[69:42]

And what he writes is what is seen with this clarity of vision? Yeah, I think that's a possible interpretation. So, in that case, that is also the storehouse of Dharma, or writings, or his idea, or teaching, as an expression of his way of seeing Dharma. And I think that is a possible interpretation. So, in this case, this Zo, or storehouse, or treasury, is a collection of his writings about the Dharma seen by true Dharma, Ai.

[70:48]

That is my understanding. Well, any questions? Were the fascicles of Shogo Genzo originally given as lectures, or were they originally written out by Dogen, or does anybody know? At the end of each chapter of Shogo Genzo, some of them were written on a certain day. And he used the word jishu. Jishu means literally, show to his assemblies. So, somehow he showed his writings to his assembly. But we are not sure whether he gave lectures on what he wrote or not. So, we are not sure.

[71:52]

Is the title Shogo Genzo in Dogen's own hand? So, did he have in mind from the beginning that he was making a collection? I'm not sure. However, I'll check. Some modern scholars doubt whether Dogen compiled and named the collection of his Japanese writings Shogo Genzo by himself or not. But many scholars think that's Dogen. And we have no evidence. Yes. Please. The story of Buddha and Mahakasyapa, although it was in the Mulan Khan, and I heard you say that Dogen probably didn't read that, wasn't it likely that it was being used as teaching in the monasteries that he visited?

[72:58]

Could he have just heard it? You mean the story of the transmission? Yes, of course. Actually, Dogen wrote or made verses on 90 koans. And this story is one of them. So, it's very clear that he knew that story. So, the story was at least older than Dogen. Please. The Shogo Genzo was originally written in Chinese? Pardon? The Shogo Genzo was originally written in Chinese? You mean these 95 poems of Shogo Genzo? No.

[73:59]

It's written in Japanese. I think this is also a very important point. You know, even in the 17th or 18th century until Meiji era, many Buddhist scholars wrote their writings in Chinese. Chinese for Japanese, not only Buddhist, but also Confucianist. Chinese is a formal language to use. I think it's like Latin in European countries. Please. But there's something about the way it was written that needs to be translated into Japanese? That's a question. Because sometimes when I hear people talk about English translations of the Shogo Genzo,

[75:02]

they say, oh, well, that was translated from the modern Japanese translations. So, could you say, is that true? I mean, is there something about it that's very difficult for modern Japanese people to read, and so it must be translated for Japanese readers? Is that true? Yes. So, the translation that's being done by the translation project, that's from the original? Yeah, Carl is translating from the original Dogen's writing. But these days, many translations to modern Japanese have been published. I'm pretty sure more than 10 translations to modern Japanese. Because unless we really study Buddhism, and Chinese, and Zen literature,

[76:02]

even Japanese cannot read Shogo Genzo without commentaries. So, yeah, when I did some English translation, it's clear to me this is translated from modern translation, not from the original. Please. Where is the original? Does it still exist? I mean, where is it? Some of Dogen's own, how can I say, handwriting remains in various places. But after Dogen died, Shogo Genzo was, how can I say, copied by hand, because they didn't have, I think, woodblock printing yet.

[77:04]

So they had to copy by their hands. And many people copied in various places, and stored in various places. And there are basically, one, two, three, four basic collections of Shogo Genzo. One collection is called 75 volume version. Another is called 12 volume version. Traditionally said, this 75 volume version is compiled, made by Dogen. And 12 volume version was what Dogen wrote after he finished writing 75,

[78:07]

and started to new version, new writings. And Dogen wanted to make 100 volume version. But somehow, because he died so young, he couldn't complete it. So only 75 plus 12, 87 are left. So those two collections are traditionally considered original. And there are other collections, like 60 volume versions. And scholars used to think this was made by fifth abbot of Eheiji, whose name was Gyu. Gyu tried to take the chapters in which Dogen criticized Rinzai.

[79:09]

Rinzai Zen masters. Took them out? But some scholars doubted. Anyway, there are 60 versions. And also, there are 28 volume versions. That was a collection stored at Eheiji. And some people think those 28 was kind of a leftover. Gyu made 60 volume versions out of 75. But these days, especially the last several years, scholars at Komozai University have a hot argument about which version is Dogen's final teaching.

[80:16]

I mean, some scholars think the 12th volume version written in the final days of Dogen should be because it was written in the later times. This is true teaching of Dogen. What he wrote in the 75th version is not true. That means Dogen changed his mind for his teachings, for his idea. There are scholars who are very, how can I say, trying to kind of create a new image of Dogen. Have you studied both versions? Do they differ significantly?

[81:18]

Yeah. Some chapters are almost opposite. You know, Stephen Hayne wrote a book about the fox core. The fox core? Yeah. Hyakujo or Bajan and the fox. And Dogen comments in two chapters of Shogoken. One is Daishogyo, or great practice. Another is Jinshin Inga. Jinshin Inga means deeply trust or believe in cause and effect. And his comment, his interpretation of this story about fox,

[82:25]

do you know the story of fox? Almost opposite. Bajan's fox? Yes, Bajan. And some people think Dogen changed his mind and criticized what he wrote. But other people think both are his understanding, two sides of one teaching, and no one knows it is true. So, you know, Shogoken was kind of hidden in a monastery, only a small circle of sotousen masters could really study. But now many people started to read Shogoken, and many people made their own interpretations.

[83:29]

So this is a kind of a new epoch of Dogen's study. So it's really interesting to read such arguments among scholars. But one thing, one thing, something…

[83:48]

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