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Flag Wind Mind Earth

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SF-07316

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Summary: 

2/3/2013, Eijun Linda Cutts dharma talk at Green Gulch Farm.

AI Summary: 

The talk explores interconnectedness, using the koan of "The Wind and the Flag" to illustrate the inseparability of mind and experience and its implications for environmental awareness and contemplative care. It emphasizes the importance of perceiving the environment as not separate from ourselves, urging reflection on how personal and collective actions affect climate change. It also highlights contemplative care as a form of mutual support that transcends traditional notions of helper and helped.

Referenced Works and Concepts:

  • The Wind and the Flag Koan: A traditional Zen story focusing on the nature of perception and the interplay between the external world and mental states, used to discuss interconnectedness.

  • Hui Neng: An influential 6th ancestor in Zen Buddhism, whose teachings and life stories like the koan and his connection to the "Diamond Sutra" are used to convey awakening and realization beyond literal interpretations.

  • Contemplative Care: This practice in Zen philosophy emphasizes mutual support and interdependence in caregiving, as opposed to a one-dimensional helper/helpee relationship, mirroring ecological interdependence.

  • Interfaith Power & Light: An organization mentioned in relation to collective environmental advocacy and community action in response to climate change, highlighting the interconnectedness of community and environmental efforts.

AI Suggested Title: Interconnected Minds and Global Impact

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Transcript: 

This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. So I'm going to tell you a story this morning, but before I tell you the story, I was wondering if any of you knew what yesterday was. Yes? Groundhog Day, that's right. Groundhog Day, thank you. And on Groundhog's Day, do you all know what a groundhog is? Do you know what a groundhog is? Anybody? It's another name for a groundhog is a woodchuck. A woodchuck. How much wood can a woodchuck chuck? if a wood chuck could chuck wood, and the groundhog burrows in the ground, and then it comes out, and what happens on February 2nd when the groundhog comes, does anybody know what we're, yes?

[01:18]

It's supposed to see its shadow, and do you know if it saw its shadow yesterday? Does anybody know? Well, what I found out was it did not see his shadow. And when the groundhog does not see his shadow, it means there will be an early spring. An early spring. So right now, at Green Gulch, spring is coming. We've got plum blossoms that are out and daffodils and buds on the trees. You'll see that when you go down to the garden and walk around Green Gulch. You're going to see spring sort of manifesting, showing itself all over Green Gulch. And you can maybe point that out, what you see. One thing, though, do you think... What do you like about spring, anybody?

[02:21]

Springtime. Yes. When the flowers come, yes. What else happens in the springtime? Yes. The lakes get full and does it get brighter and warmer? Well, sometimes early spring is wonderful, and sometimes early spring might mean that it got to be spring too quickly, like it was too warm, too quickly. Did any of you get the flu this winter or get sick? Some of you got sick. Did you have fever? Did anybody have a fever? Yeah? And when you had your fever, did... your mommies and daddies take care of you, and you had to rest and take medicine maybe?

[03:27]

Yes, did that happen? Well, it seems to be that the earth, our beautiful, beautiful earth, has a fever. It has a fever, not a big fever yet, but like one degree. But when we have a fever, like even one degree of a fever, We don't feel so good, you know? Even a little fever. Like, you know, when the thermometer goes in and then it's like 99 or 100. We don't feel so good, right? Anyway, one thing that we can do is to take good care of the earth because the earth has a little fever. And you might think about what you might do to help The earth, what would help that? What kind of medicine that you could all do, okay? Because we love the earth so much and we love all the things that we see and the beautiful places we go and the lakes and the flowers.

[04:36]

So we want to just naturally take good care. So I'm gonna tell a story now about love really, about what happens when you love So this is a story about two brothers. And one of the brothers' name was Ganesh. And Ganesh was a kind of big boy, and he had the head of an elephant. And that's a whole other story of how he got his head to be an elephant. But anyway, he was a very sweet, loving boy. And his brother's name was Cantique. And Cantique was a beautiful boy too, very sturdy, could run really fast. And the two of them were loved by everybody. And their parents were like the king and queen of everything.

[05:39]

And they all lived happily. Well, one day, the king and queen were talking about which one of our two sons is the wisest? Which one is the wisest, I wonder? And they were thinking about this when a fellow came up to them and said, I'm gonna have a test, a contest to find out which one is the wisest. And he had in his hand this beautiful golden mango. Do you know what a mango is? Yeah. They're so delicious. You can only eat them sort of sitting in the bathtub because they're so messy. And he had this beautiful mango, and it couldn't be divided. It was like a magical mango, and it could only go to the one who won the contest because the boy's mother said, well, we'll share it. The boys can share it. No, no, it can't be divided.

[06:41]

Only one person can win. So this fellow, Narada, said, whoever of the two boys goes around the earth three full times around the earth and comes back first will win the contest. And the boys were kind of excited about this. And Contique, who was very fast, and he jumped on his special carriage, which was a peacock. jumped on his peacock, and the two of them flew as fast as they possibly could to go around the world. And Ganesh, who was much bigger and slower, plus he had this big elephant head, and his special carriage was a mouse. And picture him sitting on the mouse and how fast could they go. So we thought, I don't know about this.

[07:43]

So Ganesh... just very thoughtfully, kind of slow thought about, what am I going to do to win the contest? Meanwhile, his brother was racing around the world on his peacock, landing at places, looking around, keeping going and saying, oh, I'm going to beat my brother. And meanwhile, Ganesh was kind of thinking, how can I go around the world fast? And then he thought, my parents... My parents mean the world to me. My parents are the world. And without delay, he put his hands together. He had hands. And he found where his parents were and he started circling around his parents with his love and devotion. And he went around his parents once and around again. And a third time around his parents And they said, why, Ganesh, why are you circling around us?

[08:45]

And he said, well, you're the world to me. You're what is the most important thing, and you're the whole universe for me. And they understood what he meant. And just at that point, Kantik came flying in on his peacock. He couldn't believe Ganesh was already there. How did you beat me? What happened? Not only that, Ganesh was eating the delicious mango all by himself. But when Kamtik heard what his brother had done and that his brother had gone around the parents, he understood that really was the wisest. That really, his parents really were so important to him too. The whole world. So... This is a story to think about. What is most important to us? What's the most important thing to us, our family and our friends, but also everything we see, the whole world?

[09:49]

In each moment that we live, we can express love and care. Okay? So... Thank you very much for listening and for coming to Greenbelt this morning. And now it's time to go off into the garden and the fields, right? And to welcome the spring. There's what's called a national preach-in. And this is sponsored by an interfaith group called Interfaith Power and Light. And it's an organization all across the states with hundreds and hundreds of congregations. Zen Center is a part. There's all interfaith, all synagogues and mosques and churches and Native American.

[10:56]

And this... Interfaith Organization is sponsoring a preach-in right around Valentine's Day. This is about the third year they've done it, where from the pulpit or from the Dharma seat or from the altar, all the different clergy folks are invited to speak about... climate change and our response to climate change. And there's also things that people can do if you'd like. There's a petition to sign. There's these postcards which are sent to the president asking for some response from those quarters. to climate change.

[11:58]

So I realized Zen Center is very, very careful about offering teachings in the widest way possible that doesn't seem to exclude or to say you're not welcome here. The teachings are offered to whomever is drawn, whoever happens to show up, whoever wants to be here. And so there's a real care around bringing up certain issues that may be deemed or misunderstood maybe as political statements and so forth. However, there are issues, I think, that are not really, from my side, I don't see them as political statements, but as trying to express my understanding of how to live in this world with compassion and wisdom and awake, eyes open.

[13:03]

So I, and after seeing the movie Lincoln, have people seen the movie Lincoln yet? Many of you have. I was very moved and very encouraged to speak. It actually was a life-changing movie for me, feeling the enormity of speaking one's truth in the midst of such misery and death and war and slavery. hatred and to how it was portrayed, for those of you who haven't seen it, the ability to just creatively and with a lot of skill go forward with what Lincoln felt was right, you know, with humor and love, actually.

[14:12]

So I I have a kind of New Year's, Year of the Snake intention to, as much as I possibly can, speak from the deepest, from my heart, without worrying too much about how it's understood. And we can work that out later. You can ask me. So this theme of taking care of the earth and kind of dovetails with this program that's just started at Zen Center called Contemplative Care. And last week or a couple weeks ago was the first weekend of the... a nine-month program on contemplative care.

[15:14]

So contemplative care, to me, contemplative care means taking care of those around us who are ill, are upset, are having a difficult time, but not as I am the helper and you need my help. I am the fixer and I'm now gonna fix you. The contemplative care, compassionate care, Teaching is we're all in pain. We all suffer. We all have challenges, physical, mental, emotional challenges. There's nobody who stands aside from that as healer or the well one and the sick one. It's just one life together. And how do we respond to each other? and to the earth in a compassionate way, meaning together, we suffer together, not I step aside from that and help you.

[16:24]

So, you know, we often use this word, helpful, I want to be helpful, and I think it actually gets in the way of... truly being with people in a way that they might find helpful. You don't know whether it's helpful or not, but if we're trying to be helpful, I think there's a, we miss, we sometimes miss each other, because we have our own ideas, what you need, what the other person needs, which is based on our, what we might need. So if we go into a sick room or a hospital room with lots of ideas about what the other person's going to need or what will be helpful, we may miss what's happening right then and how to respond with that person right now, right that moment. Not I make up my mind before I walk in what's needed.

[17:33]

We instead... are open right then to what our response is. And it may be something we've never even considered, like doing nothing, just sitting there, quietly maybe, allowing the person to go through what they're going through and being willing to be there without fear and without... braced, contracted, rigid body-mind. Can we just be together? And what will come out of that? And in contemplative care, compassionate care, they're helping the so-called sick one and the well one are interchangeable. It could be that that person and how they're responding to their life helps you enormously.

[18:44]

It's life-changing for you when they're the one who's, you know, supposedly in trouble or sick. But you're the one who's benefiting by just being around them. So who is the helper and who is the helped? Who is the giver and who is the receiver? When that idea drops, then I think real care, which is a flowing circle, happens. So in terms of our environment, this koan, I wanted to bring up a koan that It's a very famous koan. Many of you probably know it. It might have been the first koan or Zen teaching story that you ever encountered. I think it was one of the first I ever encountered many years ago. And I remember I've never liked it, if I can use that word.

[19:51]

It's never spoken to me except today, this morning. So I thought... The koan has been as it is, and it's me who's changed this time around in reading it and contemplating it, contemplating it within the context of contemplative care and taking care of the earth. It spoke to me in a whole different way, which I will attempt to talk about with you. So the koan, I think, is called The Wind and the Flag, where the flag is moving. I can't actually remember the actual title right now. And this is a story about the sixth ancestor. This is a Chinese Zen teacher, Hui Nung, who lived in the 600s and died in the early, he died in his 70s.

[20:59]

And he, Lots of stories about Huenang, very, very famous teacher out of whom flowed many, many schools of Zen and many, many disciples. And he, Huenang, was a very simple person, a woodcutter by trade, illiterate, and yet lived in the world in a very awake state. And I realized that there's so many stories about Hui Nung that I could feel myself being pulled into a whole other story, like how Ganesh got his elephant face. So I'm gonna drop that story and just say he heard the Diamond Sutra being chanted in the marketplace while he was gathering wood or bringing wood.

[22:01]

and had an awakening experience, a kind of realization of his true self. And anyway, he was chosen by the fifth ancestor, even though he was illiterate, hadn't been ordained even as a priest. He was a layperson. And there's apocryphal stories about this encounter and so forth, but he received the... or dharma transmission from the fifth ancestor. But because it was not maybe politically correct or there was some agitation around this choice, he went away and kind of hid out for about 15 years. And one story is... that he went back to the woods and went around with hunters or following hunters and undid their traps and let the animals free and then put vegetables in the pot, the stew pot.

[23:07]

And there's other stories too. But anyway, one day Huynang heard that there was going to be some lectures about a particular sutra, a big fat sutra called the Maha, the Great Maha. Hari Nirvana Sutra. And he wanted to hear these teachings, so he went to the monastery where they were being taught. And outside the monastery, and often when there's Dharma talks, there's a flag that's flown. They run up a flag. It's like the Dharma flag, meaning there will be a Dharma talk here today. We should have a flag here. To let people know that people can come to the lecture and kind of a celebratory, you know, the Dharma will be spoken here. So the flag was up and there were these two monks outside looking up at this flag and they were arguing. And one of the monks said, it's the flag that's moving.

[24:13]

Obviously, it's the flag that's moving around. And It was a windy day and the flag was waving, you know, long may it wave. And the other monk was saying, no, it's not the flag that's moving, it's the wind that's moving. Right? How could the flag move if the wind, it's the wind that's moving. And they were, both of them, very, in their positions pretty strongly and arguing about this point. And hui nang said, and I listened for a while, and then he said, gentlemen, it's not the flag that's moving, and it's not the wind that's moving, it's your mind that's moving. And these monks were kind of stunned, and they stopped, and they immediately went to their teacher to tell him about what had happened with this person,

[25:22]

And then there's more stories of him joining that monastery, the sixth ancestor, and being ordained and beginning his teaching career. So this story, this particular koan, I've always felt like, yeah, so, or... And also a little bit like it reminded me of if a tree falls in the forest and nobody's there who, you know... is there a sound, which I've always found very, I don't want to talk about that, you know. Or think about it. And I was very happy to see when Suzuki Roshi, the founder of Zen Center, was asked that, he said, he was asked if a tree falls in the forest and nobody's there, is there a sound, he said, it doesn't matter. And I felt that way a little bit about this flag and and wind thing, like, I didn't, you know, it doesn't matter.

[26:26]

Somehow it doesn't matter, anyway, it hasn't touched me, and yet you hear it all the time. How many of you have heard that call on? Yes, it's kind of in the popular culture, the flag and the wind, and it's the mind, and somehow it's the mind moving, somehow it's supposed to settle it, But there's further, with these koans, they're like live, alive, and they're told and retold. And then other teachers weigh in and say, well, if I was there, I would have said such and such. And there's another story where the nun, Miao Shin, Chinese, Miao Shin in Japanese, Miao Shin, she was in a monastery, and was made head of the business office, which was a little bit on the outskirts of this temple.

[27:28]

And about 17 monks came to the, this is much later, came to this temple. They wanted to meet the teacher, but they were in this outer part overnight, and she was there because she was kind of at the gatehouse or something. And they were discussing this koan, too, about the flag and the wind and it's the mind. And she said to the 17, it's not the flag, it's not the wind, and it's not the mind that moves. And so that was a new addition. And the 17 monks, they too were stunned, and they decided to study with her and not to go up to the teacher. So we have the wind moves, the flag moves, the mind moves, the mind doesn't move. What does this have to do with anything? What does this have to do with our life and our understanding of how our existence, what our existence is or isn't?

[28:35]

So today, as I was saying, in looking at this and thinking about the environment, so we look out at the environment, we look We have this experience of looking out at, we look out at, I look out at you and you look out at me and we look out at the hills and the ocean and we also hear out, you know, we hear things like that the earth has a fever. This was the hottest year on record and also these massive, droughts and hurricanes and flooding and these homes, these island homes that are really being submerged, people's homelands into the sea and record temperatures and so forth. We, right here in this spot on the earth, have a kind of

[29:40]

Things have been more moderate, you know, right around here in the Bay Area. But all over the world, we've been experiencing and reading about and lived through. My sister-in-laws are here. So nice to have them sitting right here. And one of my sister's-in-law comes from New Jersey, and she was describing hundreds of trees down and near the river, you know, flooding in their neighborhood. And still, you know, it's not, you know, this is months later, right? It's still cleanup efforts. Anyway, my daughter's apartment was condemned. She lived in New York. Anyway, we all have stories. Maybe we lived through it. And somehow we have this notion that this... All of this that I'm describing is somehow out there that there's us and then there's this environment somewhere out there that affects us.

[30:53]

So in looking at this koan about flag and wind and mind, I began to, I was just picturing flag and wind. To say it's the flag that moves, yes, we see the flag moving. However, it moves it moves totally integrated and interpenetrated by the wind, if the wind was a warm wind, if it was fast, if it was whatever the quality of the wind, the way the flag moves and the way the wind is inter-ar. And same with the wind. When the wind encounters this particular piece of cloth, if it's a light piece of cloth or if it's nubbly, if it's heavy, if it's long, when the wind meets

[32:05]

this particular cloth, the wind will be shaped. There isn't such thing as a wind out there that somehow exists in the world by itself as just wind. Wind and flag come together as this one event. The way all the flukty-doos of the flag have to do with the karmic quality of how that material is in conjunction with the weather and the speed and all that together makes, we don't even know what it makes. We look at that and we can say, oh, it's wind or flag or, we just get more and more mixed up. So when Hoi Nang said, well, that's the mind, it's your mind moving. without our interaction with it, there isn't a flag and a wind out there somewhere.

[33:19]

We create by our seeing and perceptions what it is that we see. I fear I am losing you. Am I losing you? Anyway, I'll just keep going. As best I can. See, this is wind and flag right now. I'm flapping here. And the wind of your faces and breath and attention or not, or silence, that is creating me. That's creating the talk. And then how you're feeling and thinking and experiencing. So we're creating each other right now. And yet... To go one step further, that isn't even being created as something out there. I'm within you, my voice, and what's happening for you as you listen.

[34:26]

That's you, and who you are is me. Yes? So together, together, we're in this together. And yet we don't even know what's being created, who we are together. It's actually inconceivable. We have ideas about it. I think I know who's here. My sister-in-laws are here. I think I know that. But who are my sister-in-laws? They're these mysterious beings who have arrived with unknown energy and... presence, just like all of you. So to say that when Mioshan later said the mind isn't moving, how I understood that was we can talk about it, her saying the mind does not move, nothing's moving.

[35:32]

To me that says we're all completely and thoroughly one. interconnected inconceivableness, mutually creating each other, and to be humble in our not knowing really what it is. And so we have to take enormous care of one another, of everything we see and hear and handle and taste because it's creating us and we're creating it together and our suffering and the suffering of the earth we don't even know what that is but to be calm and tender and present with each other and each thing is the only way

[36:42]

How else do we want to live in this world, really? So maybe that's contemplative care. Where we have to be, we have to, in order to feel this connection and this humbleness in the face of, I don't know, to be relaxed and calm and caring and compassionate with ourselves and others. And from there will come the response that we don't even know what it will be. So in thinking about the earth and climate change, there is so much pain that we experience even in hearing that we sometimes want to, don't tell me about it, I don't want to read about it, I don't want to hear it.

[37:43]

And that's understandable. And at the same time, our compassion actually that we are made of, that we are born of and made of, only feels whole when we are not hiding and running away from us. what we know to be the case. There's a sign in monasteries in Japan which says dojo, which is like the place of practice, or zendo, but monastery really, dojo daishu ni ichi ni, and it translates as whatever you do, you should do with people at the same time. Whatever you do, you should do with people at the same time.

[38:49]

And that might be misunderstood. I mean, there are certain things that we do, personal things we do in private. But at the same time, we do those with the spirit of doing those with everyone at the same time. Taking good care of our bodies, we do with everyone at the same time. So in the family or in the monastery or practice place or community or in our country or in the world, to do things, whatever we do, doing it with people at the same time, to join with others, we will be met in a deep, deep, If we try and run and hide and blame and look out and just be angry, the kind of anger of ill will, not the anger of injustice, we will become ourselves tight and isolated and angry and mean.

[40:08]

what can each of us, what is each of our responses and how do we join together? Because neither the environment nor our thoughts about it, you know, neither one is right, neither one is the way. It's only understanding that it's one thing unmoving, inconceivable mutuality. And you could say, wow, that's a mouthful. And that may just be some words that you're hearing. But the more we hear those kinds of words, the more we saturate ourselves with thinking in this way, the more open we become to letting go of ideas of separation and isolation.

[41:13]

So... I think I always forget with the kids' lecture that we go... little bit longer. So I just wanted to mention, you know, that today there's this event, this religious event, big religious event for millions and millions of people called the Super Bowl. But I was going to bring, we had these big, giant stainless steel bowls in the kitchen, and I was going to bring it and ask the kids if they knew what that was. Anyway, years ago in the 90s when I was leading a little group in Coal Valley at the Tassar Bread Bakery, which no longer exists, it was a Sunday, we had it once a week on Sundays, and we sat a little bit later in the afternoon, then we had a Dharma talk and discussion, and there was this

[42:30]

this ruckus going out on the street and screaming and honking, and we're number one. And I said to the group, does anybody know what's happening here? The 49ers have won. At that time, believe it or not, I didn't even know that we, that means the 49ers, were in the Super Bowl. But this year, I know that we are. And And I am longing to experience not so much the game, that's fun, but the religious experience of being together with beings who are that concentrated and that absorbed, you know. And I don't have a TV, but I will find one and maybe join you in this. special day of religious observance.

[43:34]

I do feel like that's mostly what it's about, even though people don't say that. But I think that's how it is, because we love to be that close to each other, really, in joy and sorrow. So I think I will... And there, I did bring, just to let you know, these came from the California Interfaith Power and Light. These postcards that I'm going to put out, joined with thousands of people of faith in asking President Obama to respond to the threat of global warming now. 2012 was the hottest year in recorded history. rapidly melting sea ice is already contributing to climate destabilization and megastorms, record drought, famine. And, you know, I think the faith community, what's called the faith community, but it's really broad, but those identified as the faith community, the added, not only the earth, the earth as our beloved earth,

[44:53]

the great earth as our own body is suffering and has fever and is sick, but all the beings who are most vulnerable, the old and the sick and the poor who can't actually move out to somewhere higher ground, those beings are suffering and will suffer from drought and these changes more than others. you know, the most vulnerable. So to not forget that, for us not to forget that, how can we forget that? Our forgetting that will make us sick, actually, will make us crazy, I think, to use a term. Will make us, will destabilize us to... turn away from and forget what is happening. And to meet it, to join with others throughout the world, together, that will be care.

[46:09]

That will be care for ourselves and our deepest heart, heart's desire, and for each other And out of that will flow care that will cover the earth. Thank you very much. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our programs are made possible by the donations we receive. Please help us to continue to realize and actualize the practice of giving by offering your financial support. For more information, visit sfzc.org and click giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[46:50]

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