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Finding Refuge in Heartfulness
AI Suggested Keywords:
Talk by Sangha Tenzen David Zimmerman at City Center on 2020-04-09
The talk focuses on the practice of Zazen meditation and discusses the Brahma Viharas, or the four divine abodes in Buddhist teachings: Metta (loving-kindness), Karuna (compassion), Mudita (sympathetic joy), and Upekkha (equanimity). These states of mind serve as a refuge, particularly in challenging times, helping practitioners to cultivate an open heart and equanimity. The discussion emphasizes these principles' potential to foster liberation and connection with others amidst the COVID-19 pandemic.
Referenced Works and Ideas:
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Brahma Viharas: Described as the primary heart teachings of Buddha, the Brahma Viharas are framed as mental and emotional refuges during distressing times, facilitating connections to happiness and inner peace.
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Christina Feldman's "The Boundless Heart": This book is suggested as a resource to explore the Brahma Viharas further, emphasizing their role in widening the circle of concern and care beyond oneself.
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Sharon Salzberg and Alan Wallace's works: Both authors are cited as key contributors to understanding and practicing the Brahma Viharas, with Wallace's "The Four Immeasurables" being specifically mentioned.
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Ongo (Practice Period): The term and its translation as "peaceful abode" highlight the importance of cultivating a peaceful internal and external environment, particularly relevant during the pandemic.
Each of these practices serves as a pathway to liberation and highlights the potential for personal and collective healing, offering guidance for integrating these principles into everyday life and spiritual practice.
AI Suggested Title: "Finding Refuge in Heartfulness"
So welcome again to our twice a week practice session. And it's always a joy for me to be with all of you in this way. supporting each other as we navigate these remarkable times together. But more so, regardless of what's happening in any moment, to bring forward our practice, to live from a place of practice, to live from a place of an open, spacious heart-mind that is always something that we can ground ourselves in at any moment. So here we are supporting each other in that practice once again. For those of you who might be new to these practice sessions, my name is Tenzin Nevin Zimmerman and I live at City Center.
[01:06]
And the general form of these practice sessions is that we'll start off with a period of Zazen meditation. I'll begin leading into it with some guiding words to support those who are maybe newer in your practice in general. And then after the period of meditation, I'll offer a brief dharmet, a short dharma encouragement, and then open up to all of you to see if there's anything particular you'd like to bring forward in terms of your practice in this current period. Just a reminder that we have everyone on mute at this point. And so when it comes time to hear, if you'd like to share, Tim is with us acting as our host for this afternoon. He'll support with muting and unmuting. And also we're recording this session in case there's people who would like to hear who didn't have a chance to participate.
[02:10]
So if you have a preference not to be recorded, you can put your camera on no video, and that way that will take care of that. So without further ado, let's go into our sitting, or I should say our meditation, our zazen. So finding an upright posture. A posture that allows you to be relaxed, open, and yet attentive. And then throughout the meditation, giving yourself over to the physical and mental posture, that again is alert, attentive, open, receptive. And what I'll do is I'll ring the bell three times. And as I do, you may wish to use the sound of the bell as a touchstone to help you come to the present moment and abiding or being with the sound of the bell
[03:20]
You first hear it for the time that its duration lasts. And then finally, once it fades away, noticing what is it that remains. that same focus attention that you gave to the sound of the bell.
[04:20]
Allow yourself to become aware of, connected with, and relaxed into the present moment experience. Gathering your attention from wherever it's been and allowing it just to settle and abide here. your bodily presence be the prevailing ground of your experience. If it's helpful, you may wish to use the breath as a touchstone, allowing awareness to gently accompany the natural rhythm of breathing in and breathing out. Just staying with the flow of the breath. as if you were watching a river passing by.
[05:24]
If the mind wanders for whatever reason from where you wish it to be, it's either distracted by a thought perhaps, a tension or a pain in the body, maybe a particular concern, anxiety or worry, When somebody notices this happen, and noticing is a moment of waking up, coming back to the present moment. And in that moment, choosing where you wish mind's attention to be, and redirecting it once more. Go back to the breath as a focused touchstone. Perhaps widening the aperture of awareness to include the whole body. even more widely to include the sense of space around you and within you. So allowing ourselves to bring a compassionate, open, warm presence to whatever it is that we're experiencing.
[06:47]
Perhaps using our embodied experience as a means to settle and quiet the mind, helping us become more grounded. Doing our best to stay with the physical experience of the body, the sensate experience, in a non-reactive, spacious way. Doing so allows us to bring some measure of composure and equanimity to whatever it is that we might be experiencing. We're just regarding all experience with an even perspective, not preferencing any particular experience, not holding prejudice in any way.
[08:07]
unbiased, openly receptive capacity. Perhaps noticing in your experience that there's some fundamental sense of goodness that you can connect with, something that feels whole, complete, true, heart-opening. If there's some measure of goodwill or friendliness that you can bring to the moments, bring to your experience, whether the experience of the mind, of emotions, bodily sensations, welcoming it all with warm, kind regard.
[09:32]
being with our experience with compassion, with the willingness to experience it just as it is, recognizing it, allowing it to be what it is, perhaps bringing gentle inquiry and curiosity, and not identifying with the experience, not making a self out of it. being with experience in a friendly, open way as best we can. During these particularly challenging times,
[10:56]
We might have a tendency to be biased to know, say, what is that's difficult? What is it that's not right? Well, the mind might have a tendency to do that. Naturally, we can cultivate the mind of appreciation, the mind of gratitude, being aware as to what it is in our daily life that brings us a sense of joy and ease. Something for which we have gratitude for. And we're happy. It's present. Available. Either something that we're experiencing, but it's something that someone else is experiencing. Maybe even appreciating their joy and happiness. continuing now in silence for the rest of the meditation, allowing ourselves to be open, spacious, relaxed, befriending our experience of the present moment as best we can.
[12:24]
This is all we can ever do, just to make our best efforts and embrace that. May we abide with peace and ease, extending compassion to ourselves and others, celebrating whatever sense of joy and happiness might be here in this present moment. Thank you again for joining in Zazen.
[30:17]
And for the Dharmat today, I thought I would speak a little bit on the Brahma Viharas. And I was thinking about this because currently this kind of, I was suggesting earlier that we think of this practice session, you know, as if we were this practice session of sheltering in place. as if we were doing a practice period or a monastic retreat of an indeterminate life. And it so happens that the Japanese word for practice period that we use at Zen Center is ongo. And the word ongo translates as peaceful abode or a peaceful dwelling place. And the question might be, well, what kind of dwelling place do we have? What is the place that we are dwelling in? if we're taking shelter, what is it that we're taking shelter in? And how do we create a peaceful environment to help us sustain us during these challenging times? So while we might initially make the effort to create a calm, safe, healthy physical environment during the pandemic, I think it's equally important to make a dedicated effort cultivating a healthy internal environment.
[31:36]
You could say an emotional and mental environment. One that offers us a peaceful dwelling place or a refuge during these particular uncertain and distressing times. So many of you might already be familiar with the Buddhist teachings of the Brahma Baharas, the four peaceful attitudes sometimes they're called. And these are benevolent states of mind. And the traditional framing of them in Pali is metta, karuna, dita, and upekka. And metta is often translated, I've seen it as loving kindness. I particularly like goodwill, friendliness, or kindness. And then karuna, it's usually translated as compassion. And nudita as apathetic joy or appreciative joy. And then the fourth one, upekka, as equanimity. And so these Bram Biharas are considered the Buddha's primary heart teachings.
[32:36]
They're kind of considered four facets of the heart. And the ones that, these teachings are the ones that most connect us directly with our desire for true happiness. And the word Brahma Gutharis can be translated as divine abodes. And I appreciate this idea of divine abodes because I think these four states as wonderful conditions of human consciousness in which the mind can rest, could have a feeling of ease and peace, as if it was at home, in our true place of refuge, our true home. So four abodes of the hearts. How many people are familiar with the Bermuda Hards? Okay, a number of you, wonderful. What I'd like to do is walk through each of these briefly with you and unpack them, and then we can have an open discussion. It might be a bit jarring to consider these beautiful mind states in the context of COVID-19.
[33:39]
Yet, when we rest in a steady mind and an open heart, we're generally able to support our own well-being as well as the well-being of others, and even in difficult circumstances. In fact, it's said that when practiced and fully realized together, all these Brahma Pihars as one, They become the very landscape and the embodiment of liberation. So it's not just about being peaceful and feeling good. These are pathways. These are kind of attitudes, orientations that, once embodied, become themselves the ground of liberation, the ground of freedom. So the first one, and these are done sometimes in slightly different order, but today I'm going to start with upaka or equanimity. And equity is considered in many cases the ground out of which the other three flavors of the benevolent mind arise. So everything depends on equanimity.
[34:42]
And I spoke a little bit about equanimity in a couple of the previous practice sessions. Equanimity is the capacity of the mind to hold a clear view of whatever is happening, both externally and internally, as well as the ability of the mind to accommodate passion or any experience without losing its balance. So it's a sense of an even keel, despite whatever's going on, it's a sense of evenness. And equinomy is the mind that sees clearly, that meets experience with a sincere intent. And because it remains steady and thus unconfused, It's able to correctly assess the situations. It's able to discern what really is needed here, what's going on, and what's really needed. And the words that are often used in association with equanimity include acceptance, patience, and stability.
[35:46]
So the next one is metta. And metta is the opening of the heart to the experience of others. So it's basically an active sense of goodwill, of benevolence, of friendliness toward being, including oneself. So we can't leave ourselves out of the picture. So sincerely wishing for everyone's welfare and happiness. Now we might start by reflecting our own deepest desire to be happy and at ease. And then remembering that all beings share in the same desire everyone wants to be happy. So knowing that other beings just want to be happy, like we do, we can cultivate a heart that cares for the well-being of others. Medhat in this way is a generosity of spirit. So it's the opposite of loyal will or hatred. And with an attitude of goodwill and benevolence, we can view each person as equally wanting to be in good health, to be virus-free,
[36:54]
and able to have their essential needs for well-being met. So with metta, everyone becomes a beloved friend. Then the next part of Bahara is karuna, or compassion. And compassion can be understood as what happens when metta meets suffering. So whether it's the suffering we experience or the suffering of another, compassion is caring about and being present for the pain that we all experience. Everyone experiences pain. It's the first noble truth. There is suffering. So compassion is, say, a quivering of the heart in response to suffering, suffering in the world. And when we come in contact with pain or suffering, our typical reaction is often to avert, to turn away. But when we Cultivate karuna, or compassion, means that we set the intention to care for the suffering of others and ourselves, rather than pushing it away.
[38:04]
It doesn't mean that we invite suffering in, but we do welcome it when it comes. We acknowledge it. We accept, oh, here is suffering. So compassion, in this case, becomes an antidote to aversion or to turning away from suffering. And I've been thinking a lot about the compassion of so many of the doctors and nurses and healthcare providers and others who are doing so much, risking their own life to care for those who have been stricken with COVID-19. So they're not turning away. In many cases, they're going right into the suffering to be able to address it and be with people and support people during a difficult time. And then the... remaining Brahmavihara is mudita, or appreciative joy, or empathetic joy. Sometimes it's also sympathetic joy. So while mudita becomes compassion when it meets suffering, I'm sorry, when metta, while metta becomes compassion when it meets suffering, it becomes mudita when it meets joy.
[39:14]
That sense of friendliness, loving kindness, goodwill, right? When it meets suffering, it it becomes compassion. And when it meets joy, it becomes mudita. So the quality of mudita then is the quality of sharing, the sharing of joy. Mudita is often noted as an antidote to jealousy and envy because it allows us to simply rejoice that another person is experiencing happiness, just like we want to experience happiness. And mudita, also supports us to more fully experience and appreciate our own joy, which is often something that's very hard for us to do. I think we can now practice appreciative joy by sharing in the joy and the well-being and the prosperity of others during this challenging time, whether because they are healthy or virus-free, have a safe home or reliable source of income.
[40:16]
So being happy for others and their well-being at this difficult time. The Brahma Giharas remind us to cultivate love, compassion, joy, equanimity as noble states of mind, abodes for the mind to rest in. And in these challenging times, the teachings of the four divine abodes can help us to stay centered and uplifted. They can help us to remain what I say is heart full, full of heart in this time of COVID-19. Christina Feldman in her book, The Boundless Heart, does many wonderful resources on the Brahma Biharas. Sharon Salzberg speaks on them, Christina Feldman, Alan, whose last name I'm just forgetting, I'll come back to it later, but many, many writers speak on the Brahma Biharas. So Christina Feldman says that in practicing the Brahma Biharas,
[41:19]
we widen the circle of our concern and care beyond ourselves and come to understand the ways in which we can be active participants in the healing and the awakening of the world. So the Brahmi Biharas are considered natural human capacities, right? But they may be underdeveloped and unavailable when we must need them. So part of the practice that we take up when we're studying and practicing the Bhagavad Gita Harris is actually cultivating them, particularly through certain meditation practices. And usually many of you might be familiar with the form of the meditation practice where we first begin by summoning one of the Bhagavad Gita Harris in our mind and in our heart and directing it to someone who easily invokes the particular practice attitude or intention or feeling that we're trying to cultivate. So if we're trying to cultivate friendliness to goodwill, we think of someone who embodies that for us, who is a model, an aspiration for friendliness, loving kindness, and goodwill.
[42:26]
We bring them to mind, right? So we regenerate that feeling in ourselves. And then we can extend that outward to others. We need to extend it back to them, perhaps, or we back to others who we love and care for. Or we may also then extend it to someone who we have kind of a neutral relationship. We really don't know them so well. For example, the person in the grocery store who's bagging our groceries for us. Although these days I think we have to bag our own groceries. But anyhow, that they're there and we extend to them friendliness, goodwill, a sense of compassion, a sense of appreciative joy that they have well-being at this time. and also a sense of equanimity and open perspective. So if you want to kind of take up studying these particular divine abodes or the abodes of the heart or attitudes of the heart, I suggest you do some research and find particular meditations that focus on each of them so that you can go a little bit more deeply in cultivating them.
[43:37]
So while we don't have time today to actually do guided meditations with each of the Brahmadiharas, I thought I would just end by offering them as a brief contemplation. So once again, let's turn inward for a moment. And as I say these brief phrases, maybe repeat them to yourselves or just reflect on them and what it is that they're offering. So for example, upekka, equanimity. Knowing the truth of the way things are, may our hearts dwell in equanimity and stay as open as possible as our lives and as the situation unfolds. And then metta, kindness, firmness, understanding that we are all in this together. May we wish for others what we could wish for ourselves, safety, ease, and well-being.
[44:45]
And Karuna, compassion. For those who are or will be suffering in body and mind, may we care about their suffering and hold them close to our hearts. finding mudita, appreciative joy, staying connected to the joys and the beauty that continue to unfold at this time. May our hearts be buoyed and be close to all that we have to be grateful for. Those are four brief contemplations of the Brahma Piharas. And I just remembered the name of Alan Wallace, the Tibetan teacher. He has a wonderful book called The Four Immeasurables. So I hope these are encouraging to you in some way, that they will support you and your desire to create a shelter at home that...
[45:58]
helps you to be able to navigate these particular difficult times with some measured ease and equanimity. So with that, I thought we'd open up and see what it is that you might want to share at this time. Is there joy? Is there equanimity? Is there compassion? Is there a sense of goodwill? What is it that you're practicing with at this time? And Tim has put instructions at the bottom of the screen in the chat about how it is that you might raise your hand. And Tim, help me here. Who might have raised their hand? I see there's Terry. Hello again, Terry. I feel that I have a position at the Zen Center.
[47:01]
I am first questioner. Well, we can work with that. Well, okay. I'm trying to think of how to... You know, there are all these people... who are so incomprehensible to me, you know, the Trump supporters. And I'm trying to figure out, and the four are measurables. A lot of it is about relating to other people, really. Well, three of them are specifically. How can I use them for these people who I just, I don't understand them at all, I have this desire to understand them and I don't. And they really upset me.
[48:02]
Well, first, it's wonderful that you have a desire to understand them. You know, to say, how is it that you understand the situation? What are the causes and conditions for you to think this way, to have these particular beliefs and ideas? So just that beginner's mind of curiosity. Tell me, why do you believe that? Why do you think that way? So this desire to actually have a relationship, to try to get to better understand them, and in doing so, maybe understand why they hold the views they hold and whether or not you can open to them a little bit more. And having said that, I think the main thing is not to close your heart to anyone. So maybe you will never understand. Maybe you will never agree with their particular point of view. That's okay. You don't need to agree with them. But can you keep an open heart mind? Because a close heart mind doesn't hurt them.
[49:05]
It hurts you in the end. Right? So if you want to live with a sense of joy and ease, then you're cultivating an open heart mind for yourself. And that joy and ease, that openness... if it can be wide enough to include others, that's beautiful. May it be wide enough to include others. May it at some point be boundless, right? Which is what the Brahmi Paras is sometimes called, the boundless heart-mind, right? And so understanding is wonderful. And if we can't understand, then can we love? Can we accept? Not accept in the sense of, I approve of your way of thinking, but accept of, I see that you have that particular perspective. I may not be able to fathom it, but I won't close my heart to you. And it can be a challenge. You know, I say myself sometimes when I hear some of the political dialogue, I really have to work with not turning away, not closing my heart and mind and saying, I wonder, bringing curiosity, I wonder how they came to that view.
[50:19]
I wonder what their deepest concern is. And sometimes we share the same concern, but we just have different ways of coming to it. So that's kind of how I try to work with it. And it's not easy. It's definitely not easy. But I don't want to suffer from a closed heart mind. In the end, that is the path of liberation as far as I understand. Okay, thank you. That's so helpful. Thank you. I'm so appreciative of the Zen Center during these times. Thank you, Terry. Thank you for joining again. I see there's two other raised hands and Norma. I'm going to rely on Tim to bring Norma. Are you there, Norma? Then is Norma available?
[51:24]
Okay. Well, maybe we'll pause for a moment and see if Norma is able to join us and maybe turn to May. May, are you available? Yes. Oh, my God. Thank you, David. I'm just reading the books from Cheryl. Oh, excellent. Oh, my goodness. And if you ask me what I'm practicing, definitely equanimity. But I also understand that the last one, which is sympathetic joy, is very hard. Very hard one. This is like, you know, it sounds like it's so... How do I say? Maybe this is later. I think this is a really tough, this joy one. But because right now we see so many sufferings, let's talk about compassion.
[52:30]
I have a question that's always lingering in mind. You mentioned not to turn away, but not to invite them in, right? It's almost like, I remember we always recite the precious jewelry mirror. Like, you know, somebody is like, turn away or touch are both wrong. You know, it's such a delicate balance because you see so much suffering. So how do you be able to be still? You know, yes, your heart is covering, you know, but you can't move, right? You still have to hold the steel. Oh my God. I think just my past experience of all my life, pretty much, you know, it's very tempting to touch. You know, because the touch, think about that, you know, a lot of people are suffering right now, and you just want them to feel better.
[53:36]
But the way to let them feel better, sometimes you're getting, and almost like you want to save a person who got drowned, but you're drowning yourself too. Right. So anyway, this is just my experience. I just, you know, I'm just wondering, you know, how we are going to deal with this, especially right now. Well, speaking towards this kind of touching and not turning away, you know, touching is sometimes we do it because we come from a place of identification, you know, or we do it from a place of selfing. We do it at a place of actually subtle ego. We think we're somehow better and we can fix them or fix the situation or it makes us so uncomfortable that we're trying to touch it to make it go away in some way. And so this not touching is not to grasp, not to fix something that is permanent, that's real.
[54:40]
So everything we talk about is impermanent. Everything is emptiness itself. There's nothing there that's separate. So this idea of not relating to something as a separate expression. And so when we stay upright, we can say, you know, not turning away, not moving, not leaning in, right? We stay at a place of equanimity, of balance, you know, allow things to unfold. We open our hearts and open heart is a spaciousness, you know, and allow the person to experience what it is they're experiencing. Because, When they go into that experience, they touch wisdom and they're able to fully be with the experience. They can fully access wisdom in some way. So we may want them to be free of suffering. Of course, we want them to be free of suffering, right? But the ultimate suffering is not in the world. The ultimate suffering is in our own heart, mind.
[55:41]
So when we can... attend to our own heart, mind, and how suffering arises within us, then we find true liberation. No one else can give us that. Only we can access that for ourselves, but others can hold the space for it. And I'll say one more thing in terms of, you know, appreciative joy or sympathetic joy. The thing that I think we get caught up, caught on in practicing appreciative joy is a sense of lack. We think there's not enough, right? Many of us, and I, you know, for myself, struggle with a sense of lack. There's not enough. It's a foundational belief that's kind of been wired deeply in many of us, right? And we think if someone else is happy and has joy, then I won't, there won't be enough for me, right? And so we're afraid to allow others to have it because we won't get it ourselves. Like going to the store.
[56:44]
If everyone else gets the toilet paper, then I won't get any. But joy isn't that way. It's not a limited thing. There's no end to joy. Just like there's no end to the sky. There's no end to love. True love has no boundaries. True joy has no boundaries. It's limitless. Again, immeasurable. These are immeasurable qualities. There's no limit to that. So whenever we get stuck on a sense of lack, we study that because that means we're identifying with the separate self in some way. We have the belief, you know, identification with the separate stuff. Oh, my God. Thank you so much. Wow. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Peter Holden. Hi, Peter.
[57:47]
Good to see you. Yes. Nice to see you, David. Thank you for your talk. And, you know, Kurt, it was interesting the way that you led with UPECA, the equilibrium. I hadn't ever quite thought about it like that. But while you were talking about Sympathetic Joy, Mudita, it occurred to me that the opposite of Mudita is, I can't say it, Schroedenfreda? Yeah. The misportune of others. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, when I first heard that term, I could instantly identify that feeling in myself, you know. when the bully trips over the rock, you know, you know. But, you know, it's... Mudita is something that does not seem to come naturally, at least for me, fortunately.
[58:58]
And it is a real exercise to try to imagine it. And, you know, it's... For me, it's kind of like gratitude. It's the more that I practice it, the easier it becomes. So I don't know. In the context of Schreidenfreude, how would you suggest we cultivate Mudita? Well, it's... You said something that I wanted to return to for a moment, but this idea that, oh, I know. All of these are capacities that we already have. They're naturally inherent to us, right? And we do need to cultivate them. We do need to practice. That's why it's called practice, right? We're building this capacity, the strength, the muscle, the heart muscle to be open, to hold our experience, to hold others.
[60:09]
with this boundless strength and boundless capacity. So it's very natural that, you know, each one of us may have a different relationship, a different orientation, a different capacity currently to express any of these particular abodes, you know, under the Brahma Viharas. And so it's often a good thing to choose the one you have the most difficulty with and focus on that for a period of time and cultivating that. you know, in some way, so that that becomes a stronger muscle that you have. And again, the same thing I said to May, you know, to notice what is the dark side? What is it that's pulling us down? What is it if we have Schoenfreude, if we want others to suffer? What is it that we're not accepting in ourselves? And I usually notice when I... have that negative mind come up, again, it's coming from a place of lack, right?
[61:14]
And there's some way where I'm not able to be with my own suffering or I'm not able in case of joy to be with my own joy. Or somehow I haven't given myself permission to really experience joy. You know, I grew up in a Tibetan Christian, you know, household and, and, You know, Mennonites, sometimes it was like, it's not okay to be too joyful because somehow there's kind of sin you have to address in some way. So this undercurrent, if I'm too joyful, something bad's going to happen. Or it's not a good thing. Or I'm, what is it? I have too much pride if I'm joyful. So we can study what holds us back from experiencing our own joy. And what is the belief, particularly? What's the story that we have that keeps us from experiencing and dwelling in our own joy? When we're able to be in our own joy, we discover that it's actually limitless.
[62:18]
When we're truly in it. And then suddenly, when we see others have joy, then it's not a problem. It's like, oh, great. Everyone. Everyone. Everyone experiences joy. Because joy is an internal thing. Internal. It comes from us. It's not out there. It's not in the environment per se. Joy is something that comes from the wellspring of our own being. But how do we enter into that wellspring, right? It's a boundless wellspring. But what keeps us from dipping into it? What keeps us from accessing it? Again, what stories, thoughts, old conditioning tell us we're not good enough or we don't deserve it? or any kind of sense of limiting what is naturally our fundamental potential and capacity. So that's how I would work with children for it. So, well, thank you.
[63:23]
And I've noticed we've hit time. Maybe we'll do one more question. And then we'll call it an evening. Carol Ann? Yes, I don't have a question. Just a very brief comment, if I may. Which is today in the Christian calendar is Maundy Thursday. And I've learned just today that Maundy, M-A-U-N-D-Y, comes from the Latin mandare, which is to mandate. And it means that Jesus washed the feet of his disciples. the new commandment was given, the mandate, the new mandate was to love one another. Yeah. People all over the world are considering that today, and I just wanted to join with them in that feeling. That's beautiful. That's great. I was baptized in the Brethren Mennonite tradition, and we did feet washing as part of that kind of ceremony.
[64:27]
And the intimacy of that comes with washing someone's feet and seeing them as, you know, a brother or a sister and having that sense of, I will humble myself in order to raise you up and help you to, you know, purify the heart line in some way. So there's many aspects. Right now, particularly, a lot of spiritual traditions are celebrating, you know, this time of our... our interconnectedness, our deep intimacy with each other. So thank you for bringing that forward, Carol. And okay, my friends, it's been a joy to be with you all again. I wish you well in your practice. And I hope you find, if you found them beneficial, to continue exploring and taking up the Bromadier Hearts. So be well. Thank you, David. Thank you.
[65:29]
You're welcome. You're welcome. Thank you. Take good care. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Bye-bye. Thank you. Bye, Susan. Thank you, David. You're welcome. Take care. I love her. Thank you, David. You're welcome, man. Good to see you. Good seeing you. You as well. Thank you. Are you out of quarantine yet? I'm out of quarantine, but I'm still in the hotel.
[66:30]
Okay. But have you met with your mother? I have. Yay. Good. I'm happy. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. We'll take good care. You too. Good night. Good night.
[66:44]
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