Your doing, whatever you do, zazen, gassho, and walking, must be touched down. That is keeping your whole body and mind in balance, perfectly. Your doing is exactly a water loving instrument. Your gassho is exactly a water loving instrument. If your gassho is not right, you cannot do gassho. If your bow is not right, you cannot believe bow. Why you should bow to the Buddha? You always believe bow is to bow to the object of worship. This is not bow. Bow is anyway to express the deepest appreciation for your existence.

[01:05]

Totally, this is a bow. But if your bow is not right, you cannot understand it or you have lots of doubts. So, Patriarch says bow to bow is the practice of eagerness. It is really true. Gassho, bow, chanting, sitting, standing, talking, all must be touched down, touched down. Touched down as right down, right down. Gassho becomes water loving instrument, water lover. If you sit with wrong posture, you get trouble, very naturally. So, that is touched down.

[02:11]

Touched down is very closely associated with right down. Right down is exactly touched down. Touched down is right down, right down. Right down is anyway your life. Your life is water lover, touched down. Tonight, I explain just the meaning of shobo. Tomorrow, anyway, it gets off. Then, rest of days, maybe four days, I will explain eight awareness of the enlightened person.

[03:15]

The suicide official can't be re-elected. The committee take note of the elected official in the suicide. Incorporate them into the committee, some mechanism. Without affecting AS law, because that is very cumbersome, very complex to change the law. But the work, in some way, can be bypassed. Prior to the meeting in New York. As a first step, so that there is some identification of the group. What would you like to see in the newsletter that would come out to stimulate interest prior to say appeal for

[04:47]

members who might like to join separate groups? The objectives of the society, what you'd like to do in it? I already assumed there's going to be one. The objectives of the newsletter then. What the newsletter is trying to do, communicate with other members and groups. Trying to organize in terms of presenting papers. How many would be interested in coming to these open meetings? Let's ask you a question. I just think you should send the first number of the newsletter before the New York meeting. A letter should be sent out. Circular letter, yeah. Send a printed letter to as many people as you can reach. I don't remember. Saying, inviting them to attend the group studies committee meeting. And informing as many people as possible.

[05:48]

And perhaps giving an agenda. One item of which would be the possibility of forming a society. And make it a conference of papers. There's no place for them to be presented. I thought that that was one of the advantages. You said there was. You said I was separate organization. I doubt we could do it by next year. I think you should inform people that this committee exists. I went to everybody else about it. Announce that there's been a new chairman. Give the list of names of the people who are the provisional executive committee or whatever you want to call it. Say there's going to be a meeting in which everyone is cordially invited. And enclose an agenda of the meeting. And I think that would certainly be enough to get people into the room to discuss the issues. And I think one of the items on the agenda should be the possibility of a new society.

[06:50]

And then we should go into the meeting. We're serious about proposing a new society with a constitution pretty well laid out. Ready to go. We should bring specific motions and make sure that we stick to the agenda. Do you really think that a meeting of McSally's, a lot like a business meeting, attracts very much? Even if you couldn't call for papers this time, if you could have one paper and a discussion, at least. Frankly, I'd be more interested in the business meeting than hearing another paper. By the time you've been at the AAS for a couple of days, the thought of another paper doesn't really turn you on all that much. It's amazing how many people have shown up in the past for the meeting. I'm always surprised. I never know why they're all there. Some of them I don't recognize. So besides this video now, the idea is to maybe start doing something, I'm sure.

[07:56]

When do you think such a letter should go out? The meeting in March, should be around New Year. Because it's so early, some guys forget. It's so late, you're so late, you're so late for the next plan. Probably after Christmas would be a good time. I'm not taking notes, but I am taping this, by the way. I feel that if it's going to work, then that meeting is going to work. And what we have to do is that on the agenda, there would have to be some prior planning with regard to, for example, if we want to have a separate body formed, it seems to me that there ought to be a group of people who do some of the groundwork and come with some very specific proposals to that meeting in writing.

[09:02]

Multiple copies. So that everybody gets a copy and says, here it is. And then we can have open discussion and people can do battle over it. But at that point, I think without that, it would be very immortal. Just to talk about a new thing would take a long time. But if we had, that would be one thing on the agenda that definitely should be. The second thing would be, if that society, before the AAS, the committee is not allowed to set up panels. The panels are set up by the program committee, only the program committee. So we would have to form ourselves into a separate body, be asked if we could be an affiliate member, which means you then have to raise the money for your rooms.

[10:02]

You have to pay the rent for the rooms in the hotel where you're meeting for help. All proposals for AAS panels for next year have to be in by August 1st. And they have in big black letters, there are no prior commitments to any group, committee, or organization. The program committee is to be left completely free to make any decision. They've turned down the, there seems to have been something of a bias against the Indian studies, at least that's what a lot of people have felt in the last couple of years. Tremendous fat fight. So I think the organization would have to have some people working on proposals and a clear statement of what such an organization should be.

[11:05]

The second is, if we did have it, we would have to seek affiliation and we would have to set up a way, or a suggestion of a way for the meeting the year after that, a year from March. As to possible, whether we do it on a team, whether we would have it as AOS is, that you do your own paper regardless of, we're not asking you then to talk about what you were doing. Or we send out a call for papers at that time. I think that would have to be done almost immediately, say next year. I think something else on the agenda might be to, as an agenda item, a newsletter. Because I think one of the difficulties is going through the approval of volunteers.

[12:08]

To take on a really onerous burden of editing a newsletter like this. And if we have people there, we may get a volunteer, whom somebody might not even know of. Somebody who doesn't know. Well, talking of volunteers, I would like to have some people who would be willing to correspond with each other and begin to try to work on suggestions for a possible parallel organization. Okay. If you should decide to set up this parallel organization, then I think that would be a good idea.

[13:14]

I think it would be a good opportunity. If I can offer a note, that we'd like to set up an organization, even if it is only a rather informal one, because I'm part of an organization, and we think we'd like that. And I think these big orientation groups are probably getting far too big as it is. And a lot of people, I know, this time I'm not going to go to Congress next year, because it's too far, and they have too many people, and they don't have the chance to meet me, and they want me to make a small group. So, subject-oriented, but maybe I can just kindly, would you welcome any ideas, and we'll talk the word on to you. Can I ask if you would be willing to be on a group who might work on a proposal for this?

[14:23]

It ought to be international, but in terms of thinking about a proposal, it would be good to have people from outside of... I don't mind. Yeah, a male group. Do I have a volunteer? No. Thank you. Yeah. I have a strong feeling about this. That would be three of you, which I think is sufficient, because I believe you have to do a lot of correspondence.

[15:25]

So, can I just make you look as coordinators? Sure. What I would like to have is from your deliberations, and I think that if you send it to me, I can distribute it to the other members of the committee even before the meeting. Thank you. I expect from you a written document giving the major options, which would be open in terms of an organization other than the committee. Are you still going to Mexico? What do you mean? Are you also going to Mexico? No, no. Well, we're going, so we could be stuck around a bit, and most of the group will send it, and then we'll find out if there is a non-union. Structuring, well, structuring.

[16:31]

That would be how the bylaws, what you say, how do people join, what would be the limits of membership, so that they have something very specific to look at, and if they want to do it, then help set up an organizing committee, and that's, again, something which you should constitute yourself as a nominating committee to nominate and be in contact with those people who should be the first to organize the committee for it. But that would be different from being a group-based committee. It would have to be, because if you decide to go on a broader initiative, this would be valid. No, I think you'd want to, you'd want something, I think an organizing committee is one that just sets the whole thing in motion.

[17:36]

If we had those names, other people might wish to, some contact with people, Now, the newsletter, when we say the newsletter, does that mean the meeting philosophy is celebrated outside the United States, or is it based in the United States? Well, I think that's something you've discussed. I would feel that we should have, we should have, we should not necessarily think that the society has to have a meeting. It seems to me that you could have, you could have a variety of workshops for situations anywhere in the world that the society would, they decide to be a sponsor of, that would only mean, say, notifying all its members that... Right, but I, however, I tend to favor a regular meeting, whether it's kind of a humble, local effort or...

[18:42]

No. It's not a question, but I tend to favor a regular meeting too much otherwise. I suspect that it would be dominated by North America. Sure. So, consequently, probably most of the meetings, at least in the future, would take place in North America. Well, not only is the question of being dominated, but it's also a question of economics, you know. As I see it, the main question of the international aspect is to communicate with other people, more than having a kind of meeting in which we can have a discussion on finance. First, I suppose that you can think ahead to the International Congress of Orientalism, whether or not that might be a time for once every four years to have the society meeting concurrent with the Congress of Orientalism, so that you could get your international membership together. But I think these are things that you will have to work on.

[19:42]

Second thing, it would come to the agenda. Dr. Kendiama, may I ask, there are three right here in this corner who are working on possible organizational make-up of the society. Would you also join them? It's going to be by written material, but... He has so much free time. I... What I'd like is if you could, in a sense, serve in a type of advisory capacity that if they would send the material to you, if you see things or wish to respond, particularly in terms of keeping in mind the types of interesting things that there are in Japan. I think without the Japanese side, the Japanese Studies Committee would be quite...

[20:45]

Second item on the agenda would be the setting up of a meeting a year hence from March. But if we could have a proposal to present at that time as to how that meeting might take place and what form we would have to decide. So... Either we're trying to set up... I think what we're asking for is, at least in this country, we feel the need for trying to put a panel comparable to the Society of Comparative and Asian Philosophy. If this society is set up, and if we can... if we were in a place where we could officially start it in March, if it's voted on, then I think what we would want to do is to go to the AF board and ask them for affiliate status for that society.

[21:59]

And with affiliate status, notify them that we will... see what we can work out in terms of space for a meeting. So, I feel that has to be worked out so that we can say to people that we're going to do it or we're not. And if we are going to do it, what we're asking for is what we're looking for. In terms of that aspect, setting up a proposed program for 1978. Spring of 1978. Mr. Raj and I... want you as a convener. Who else would like to work with him? One other person, I think. What is this for? The convening of meetings concerning the new planet?

[23:00]

No, this is to set up a suggestion for a program of papers in 1978. Let's say a one-day, maybe just a one-day affair, or even an afternoon, an evening, something that doesn't have to be so grandiose. Proposals for papers? Proposals, yes. So that we can present to the group in March a very definite proposal that appears a possibility of what could be done so that they could act on it right at that moment. I think what we are trying to say, what we'll do in one year, two years from now, given that there is an open panel, how to negotiate with the panel with a program coming, or there's no way to negotiate. Or if we write in our slots for business meetings to convert into academics. I think I agree with you, everybody is tired of more papers. But you will think various committees work with AAS,

[24:04]

the SACS program was a comparative philosophy. Why did it precisely have an academic program each year that draws the scholar's attention? Don't misinterpret me. I'm not saying that society eventually shouldn't have an academic program. I'm saying that for the purpose of arousing an initial interest, I'm not sure that a call for papers would be the single most effective way of doing that. But I think you're right. I personally like the idea of having a theme every year. That was the premise with the society for the past century. Beginning of the first time was to schedule who wanted to present papers. From this year now, each year there's a theme. But I think if we knew what the theme was, and we could present it to people at the meeting in March, so that they like the idea, they would be able to either say yes or no immediately. Is anybody else willing to work?

[25:06]

So I'll volunteer. Yes, Steve. He volunteered. What did he volunteer for? The agenda for 78. Oh, for the theme or something? Yeah, the procedure, nothing. Okay, so the three of you will be in correspondence with each other. I'll put the phone on Professor Ron to see that it happens. And we'll expect again a written item that we can hand out to everybody at the meeting in 77, so that they can look at it, reject it, or accept it. You understand you're making a proposal for that meeting. A newsletter. I feel...

[26:08]

I don't know that we need to take the idea of the newsletter before the committee. I think that the committee itself has already in the past many times said yes. But I need... We're going to put out one such newsletter before that meeting and not... It's just a letter this time, I suppose, right? Can I have somebody who would be interested, though, in, say, a suggestion, working on a suggestion for the format and procedure for a newsletter to be brought up at the meeting? Mm-hmm. Phil. Phil. Did you shake your head three times, Phil? Any number of times. Well, he will speak if we let him speak in his head.

[27:10]

I have... Not here. Bob Thurman. Bob Thurman. Bob Thurman. How much time do we have? Some of the slack is being taken up by that Buddhist text information... Dick Gard. ...that's coming out of the Institute for Best Study of World Religions in New York. There's little bits on the back of who's working on what.

[28:21]

So hands off my topic. And maybe somebody who has access to them might be able to plug into their information network a little bit. Well, that would be... Why don't we say Dick Gard and Bob Thurman? They're both DTs. And Thurman can push Gard to think about expanding Gard or even doing a joint mailing with that DTI. That might be a cheaper thing for us to do because we'd see if we could get our... if we could put something in with their mailing, although they might not mail when we want mailing, that would be pretty cool. They did not mail us, though. They've given me their mailing address. As far as the publication of the text is concerned, they are very helpful. Though they are very bad debts, you know, to publish something long ago happened.

[29:22]

As far as planning and the current program goes, they are still inadequate. I think we think on different possibilities. One is, so long this committee has not had any advantage of AAS newsletter. They do publish four times or four times, now I don't know. They do publish newsletter. They do publish news from the committee. So that's... In the past, the committee was going to say this. Why not for the time being use the company? Yes, I think that we probably should do that. And I'll ask them to come to us with proposals for future. Not that they would actually come together and tell us what the possibilities are for the future. So what I will do is try then to perhaps... Maybe we should do...

[30:24]

Maybe this is the time for two mailings before then. Perhaps one should come in the fall to indicate some of these things. And then I'll remind you later. I don't know. I don't know whether people would have input whether to do all the reading of the mail or not. Back off from that. I think probably the current issue is secular in such form. First, we are... We don't have the time to bring that up or whether we should simply... Because it may be that what we should do is set up an organization and not even put publications on them. Although that's something that's come in from all the committee members in terms of things that they're interested in talking about.

[31:25]

The journal, the possibility. It needs to be reviewed. There are four or five people who have stated that. Should we have someone who explores that when it comes to a meeting in March with all the bad news about what a journal... Yes, it's good to have someone who is good at numbers. Because most of the bad news is about money. Because I have very many proposals and I don't know if anyone can tell you how much you need. Is there any possibility that papers read could be published in an existing journal as a whole issue like the Journal of Chinese Philosophy or the Journal of Indian Philosophy or something like that? They might be, except my big problem with Buddhist journalism

[32:29]

is that it would cross all of those. It would not... It's very hard to get papers that are precisely in the format of the journal. Or philosophies. I think that philosophies in the West would come close. But I think that certainly should be new. One thing that I would like to see is a summary of the papers. ... [...] We can try it. Most problems cost. But some problems cost. I think the problem with philosophies in the West is that they're committed to publishing papers from the committee for various needs of philosophy.

[33:30]

And I doubt that they want to give another issue committed totally to... ... [...] Again, I think these are probably things where we should check carefully to see what plan can be made. And again, this is an international problem. ... [...]

[34:31]

... [...] There are several suggestions that came to give us some management on publication. But there are many two-speaker professionals who want the job but are not happy. And in the end, the Canadian Society of Publishers said, because we can't have any of it, no connection. I thought it was a good point. That's a good idea. I think I will approach him to see if he can bring a proposal. Will we think about a quarterly journal, for example? Are you talking about once-a-year publication of papers? Completely open. I think you have to. If you make a decision, one has to know what the options are and what the costs involve. Because a lot of people simply would not know that if they had it spelled out for them in writing,

[35:34]

they would at least be either horrified and say, we absolutely can't do such a thing, or somebody would say that sounds like it's an impossibility. Does anybody else have items that you think should be on that agenda? I think it should be discussed, because this has been an issue in previous meetings, especially given the misunderstandings about the nature of membership of the AAS committee. There should be some discussion about how the organization's membership is going to be. That's probably Lisa's move more than anything else, but I think it should be made fairly explicit what the criteria for membership could be. Whether anybody who sends in a time box is going to be a member and has a vote, or exactly what issues are involved. I feel that that definitely should be spelled out in some way.

[36:40]

It does seem to me that if we're going to put our time into setting up an organization, we want that organization to serve us. I don't want to be a selfish face, Mr. Sheehy. Well, I mean, the two are not mutually exclusive. If you're talking about a broader membership imposed through a group of active missions, other societies, I think, work that way. Obviously, a broader membership pays financially, but those people don't necessarily have all the rights. Right. I think that my feeling would be it's sometimes easier to go out and make a charging $10 a person. It's probably easier to find $1,000 someplace.

[37:43]

Than it is to solicit another hundred people and all the problems that might be involved. While money is an issue, I think we should try to set a certain calendar in the long run to get a quick end result. Somehow or other. Probably. Any other issues that people want to bring up? Well, thank you very much. I will expect you to let me know what's going on so that I can keep the material in mind. But I will plan on the basis of what we have discussed here to send out a letter in January spelling out enough information for the people to have

[38:48]

so that they can come to that meeting with something in mind. And I would say probably that we would... I don't know. I suspect that we should try to... Looks like we have all this written material there and we don't send it out ahead of time. So we present them with the written proposals and we will act on each one of those proposals at that meeting and come away with a vote of the... They will have to have two votes for the sake of the law. One vote from the actual members of the committee so that that can be noted. And then another vote from anybody who's there so that we can get a general feeling for everybody. Okay, thank you very much. We'll take about five minutes for questions.

[39:47]

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