And also this request to know when it arises, know when it doesn't arise, know what brings it about, and know how to prevent it from coming about. explore the fairly sophisticated set of knowledge. It is that set of knowledge, sophisticated set of knowledge. To become aware of that range of

[01:31]

It's not simply noticing it when it's there, but noticing it when it's not there. For each of these explorations, there's at least five. Knowing it when it's there, knowing it when it's not there, knowing how it can come to be there, how it can be stopped from being there. how it can be removed when it is there. So in a way, the sky is represent a Buddhist notion of how a situation becomes solid. With these of these explorations of Dharma, it's like, you know, It says, with attachment.

[02:38]

So, implicit in that is, but without the attachment, you know, it can either say, that whole reification, or that chain of gradually accumulating and turning something into a thing, doesn't happen. Or maybe we can say, It's not a problem that there is detachment. In fact, we could say then it just reveals its own conditioned nature. So sometimes the sky desert is described, as I think I was describing them yesterday, as sort of Sequential effect, you know. Experience, primary, like or dislike, pleasant, excuse me, primary, pleasant or unpleasant.

[03:41]

Gives a raise, prompts the perception, perception prompts, started to formulate a concept, prompts an established experience. But also I was talking about sometimes you can work backwards. Sometimes you can even come backwards after the event. What was going on today? How come that exchange had so much energy? Sometimes that's a helpful question to look at. What was energized? Or something, a helpful marker, you know, that you... When that happened, there was a with a lot of energy around it. How come? Of course, it's a little tricky because you're relating to your memory. But even so, it will not sit there with precise attention.

[04:51]

Even that can be informative. So what if it's your memory awkward? That's kind of interesting how you remember it, too. And then sometimes we can remember different parts of that. Sometimes we can remember the... We can remember the actual experience. Like I was saying yesterday, if you see someone and you remember that, or sometimes you remember a particularly strong feeling, or sometimes the consequences really what the mark, this strong characteristic that you were aware of. Then I entered, I remember once I was talking to someone and then they heard I came from San Francisco and they said, old San Francisco, it's full of assholes.

[06:02]

You know, sometimes you end up with this straw. There it is. San Francisco. Yeah. Every time I go there, I have all these rotten experiences. You know, so then it's, oh, so that was given birth by this kind of experience, you know, and then you can go, you know, how much can you unpack it all? And when you think, when you have the thought, San Francisco's full of assholes, I mean, these are an accountability at strong feet, but most people make that. access wherever you can. And then, of course, when there's a strong attachment to that, it's much harder to kind of unpack.

[07:22]

And it's much harder to pick up something as sophisticated as can you notice when it arrives. Can you notice it far away? Can you notice how you feel when that thought, when that established perception or identity or characteristic? So it's more than just thought. Maybe that's the notion of established. It's not as a label of thought. It's a conclusion. What's it like when it's there? And what's it like when it's not there? And what would it be like to sort of let go of that? What would it be like to go to San Francisco and not have a fixed idea of what it's like to be there?

[08:25]

What would it be like to go to San Francisco And not just see everything through the lands of this place is full of assets. So this kind of exploration. And it's interesting because then the same thing that you often through our awareness, through our practice, our diligent practice, we see some part of ourselves, you know, you see, you think, you see this strong conviction, tendencies, because you're full of assholes. And then you kind of say, you think, wow, I've really got the latitude, don't I? And then you look back on yourself, well, maybe I'm the asshole, who I need to post views, or maybe, you know, I'm filled with bitterness and resentment.

[09:32]

But then these other questions, in a way they're asking us to keep turning it and to keep learning from it. What would it be to go to San Francisco without conjuring that up? Or maybe there's someone here in the intensive or in the building that you have a fixed view of it. what would it be to have an interaction with that didn't pervade or define the exchange? I mean, there's a particular event that happens here that you have a fixed response to. Oh, I always hate when we do that. Every other part of the schedule I'm fine with, but Soji, it's always stupid.

[10:33]

clean things that aren't dirty. There's so many things in the world that need to fix and we go around cleaning things that aren't dirty. Absolutely. What is it to do so without that rattling around in your thoughts and feelings as you would Here we go again. I'd say, ring the bell. Noticing, oh, but when I wash the dishes, that state doesn't arise. That fixed state of this is not a worthy activity.

[11:34]

This does not conform with whatever. Noticing the absence. Oh, and then when I wash the dishes and don't have that, I kind of enjoy washing the dishes. And I'm not in a hurry to have it in. And I don't feel so agitated, my chest isn't contracted. And it's actually in the mental space to just see and feel and hear what's going on. To notice the absence. And then maybe it's a little more sophisticated. Well, what would it be to do so, Gene, without that coming up? So that kind of exploration, in a way, it's asking the language of Zen, can you keep turning it?

[12:48]

It isn't fixed in a certain way. Can you keep turning it and keep learning from it? And obviously, if there's grasping it strongly, well, it just is Zen. If it isn't being grasped so strongly, then actually the activity of turning it helps to loosen it. Helps to not only offer insight, but it helps to loosen the way we stuff itself. So maybe, as you watch yourself, and you come up against something that feels like, okay, there speaks of you. Can you start to turn it? explore it. And that's, you know, what the psychic batana sutra is saying is, when there's some mindfulness established, that starts to become possible.

[13:50]

We can start to see those strict views. So before I go on, any questions or comments about that? As you're talking about and thinking about in David's account of the fire, I think that's where it is where, or no, it was when you were talking to Steve about the evacuation and he described, well, the topic was raised and there was a lot of energy around it and then when we reconsidered it, we decided to go back. And there was something about the way the escalation happened and the actions around the order and just your account, his account, it sounded like almost a step-by-step illustration of this process. Yeah. Something escalates, and then you can pause and go, wait a minute.

[14:56]

Let's think about that again, no? And that perspective arises. Yes, Rick. I was practicing mindfulness-integrating people. what you're talking about now. Exploring our fixed views. We regard mindfulness as rather important, primary care. Say something about it, and then try to get away from thinking of concepts. Working with mindfulness would be particularly exciting. What I was saying, Rick, was that in working with the four modalities of mindfulness, to my mind, the fact that working with mind comes last is significant, or the content of mind.

[16:10]

you know, because more usually for us, we're in the content of mind. Quite honestly, when that person said to me, oh, San Francisco, it's full of assholes, I was stumped. I mean, the venom with which it was said, the certainty with which it was said, the I didn't want to argue with the person. I didn't want to be insulting. And because of the venom with which he said it, I didn't think he was inviting a comment or perspective other than what he had just stated that would contradict what he had just stated.

[17:12]

So it's like, The foundations of mindfulness offer us a basis of which to be both aware of what's going on in mind, but also that survival isn't dependent upon grasp of it. This is the tricky part for us. In a way, you could say, whatever comes up for us, this is my best effort at being alive. And in a way, I grasp it with that kind of determination. And the foundational practices of mindfulness teach me, show me, immerse me in, that that's not a necessary activity in terms of being alive, in terms of being happy, in terms of avoiding suffering.

[18:34]

So in the language of Buddhism, those influences are suffered up, are loosened up, and the capacity to pay attention is increased. And then that sets the stage that enhances the capacity to pick up mind, to pick up the content of mind, and start to be able to see it and turn it. Oh, there's what's happening. And what if I turn it around? What if I open it up? So the core practice of body and breath and feelings and mental disposition, cultivate that capacity and establish that awareness. And when that comes up, I just, I go and I'm lost. It comes up, I go with it. And I don't think I live it up until something else distracts me and then I look at it.

[19:46]

So it keeps me here in the now and helps it all come here and be seen as the now. Okay. Was that help? Okay. Could you grab it? What do you do when you're lost? And then you make contact anywhere you can. In working with people who have post-traumatic stress and discovered Sometimes when someone goes through a trauma, they're so traumatized and they're so disconnected, it's extraordinary. They don't know if they're hungry or not.

[20:51]

The normal things of their life that they usually do, they don't know how to do them. And what you do is you have them make contact in any way they can. Have you had a shower today? No. Why don't you take a shower? Have you eaten lunch? No. Why don't you eat lunch? Why don't you watch the dishes? So can you make contact any way you can? Can you get in touch with your body? Can you get in touch with your breath? Can you notice what you're thinking? And that will help create your foundation. You know, and that's the blessing of mindfulness, that it can build on itself.

[22:00]

This amount of contact helps to create the capacity for a more established kind. Sometimes the body is a great resource because of the complexity of archdiocese. Can you comment on, you know, if some of this process is kind of happening, but it's still very intellectual, like in a sense of something comes up, a very strong emotional thing, and you see, well, there are other ways of looking at this. This person could have done this because of this thing, this other thing, rather than what I'm putting on top of it with my head or with my emotions. And you see that intellectually, but it sort of stays a bit stuck there.

[23:04]

Yeah. Joe was saying, well, what if you're just kind of like caught up in your own thinking will generate more ideas and concepts in your own mind. Yeah. That's not what's being described here. It's something more grounded and more connected. It's more like from the basis of contact with the experience that you start to turn. And that's why, you know, having cultivated the basis of awareness and mindfulness, We can distinguish between just having an idea of something and being more in contact with it. Yeah, that's, hopefully we can distinguish that. But I think, um, would that be your first point of contact? Which? The intellectual. Well, what I was saying earlier, when Rick was asking me, I was saying,

[24:07]

I think there's an intentional sequence here that the skillfulness of this teaching is to come in from a more grounded place, literally. So kind of starting with the body. The body, the feelings, the mental disposition, and then particularly the complexities of mind. I think the kind of thing where the very strong stuff comes up. I think the other stuff is there and then there's kind of an attachment to mind. Oh, of course. I think that's, for all of us, that's the most compelling involvement is in our thinking and the feeling that our thinking creates.

[25:20]

Yeah. I mean, in a way, that's what the Skandas are saying. You know, it's like these constituent parts come together and create a solid, consequence, you know, which is not just a thought, it's a thought, feeling, perceptional reality. And it's solid. Okay. So the next list that we're offered is the sense tours. You know, I hear, know, tongue, touch, taste, and mind. But actually, before I go there, to go back to your question, sometimes, as I was saying, washing the dishes, sometimes physical activity can be the way to make contact.

[26:38]

And it can cover a range. It can be chanting, or it can get washing the dishes, or it can be walking meditation. Sometimes an activity, rather than just trying to sit still, is more skillful. So then the sense doors, or exactly the sense spheres, Now this is asking us to be a world of both seeing and what's safe. It's like... And that, if you think about it, that's quite sophisticated. I'd like to go back to the example of someone waving a mirror. What is seen?

[27:45]

What is seen is the raising and lowering of norm, you know? Objectively. But then subjectively, I'm seeing a greedy or whatever I'm seeing, absolute friendship or a friend, you know, there's that. that kind of observation. And sometimes the way we can work with that is, you know, we can work from a more solid situation. Oh, first I have a nasty person. We're like, What am I seeing as being given the attribute master?

[28:53]

Is it the content of our speech? Is it the tone of voice? Is it the volume of the voice? What is it? I remember once, many years ago, I started to look at sexual desire, and I would ask myself, okay, what makes that person desirable? And I'd say, well, they've got a nice body. And I'd say, okay, well, what is seen that's described as a nice body? And it's kind of interesting because... you can start to kick something apart. And soon after that, I became celibate.

[29:55]

I've been celibate for five years. I didn't warn you. But it's a very interesting practice to see What's seen and how is it related to? What's heard and how is it related to? And that gets a little trickier in mind. The sense sphere of mind in Buddhism is manas, which covers the activity of mind the same way the eye has the activity of seeing and all the attributes of seeing. Indistinction from consciousness.

[30:56]

You can be conscious of touch and you can be conscious of thinking. They both have consciousness in them. So in Buddhism there's a distinction that create those two. So let me read to you how this comes up when it sends fears. And again it says whip attachment. A practitioner knows the eye and knows the eye object and knows the feather, knows the attachment that arises dependent on both.

[32:00]

So I can make an example I was given of myself. So there's physical form with my association with it and then a desire. And that goes on with each one of the senses. What Pulling in happens in connection when those two come into being with each other. And then for each one it says, knows when the better arises, knows what it's like when it doesn't arise, knows how it can be removed, and how a future arising can be It's kind of interesting if you think about it. And to try to take that just into a level of sense objects.

[33:14]

And then this arises in our life. Many alcoholics will say, oh, no, I couldn't go into a bar. I couldn't go into a bar and have to. the sense perceptions that arise in that environment give rise to attachments that just give rise to impulses that give rise to the nature. So one of the things the person knows is, okay, don't do that. The way to avoid it is to avoid that sense object. And that's an interesting point in Buddhism.

[34:14]

It's an interesting point in our practice, what you might call restraint. How restrained should you be in your behavior? How restrained should you be in your thinking in Zanzen? How much should you try not to have certain thoughts? If you think of Suzuki Roshi in Zanman for dinner time, how do you control a cow, give it a white pasture to roam it? Let me see, can I think of a cunt? Well, if you remember in that handout I gave you, Ritik Nhat Hanh quoted something from an early citra. I don't know if you remember, but then he said, it's about wrestling the mind, you know?

[35:18]

And then he was saying, well, the last piece was left art, which is that it doesn't work to wrestle with the mind. But think about it. We do say, bring awareness to your body. Follow the breathing. We do set a stage. We do recommend setting up certain ways of being. Yeah? The story of Angulimala offers another, like when you're saying what would be the opposite of the white pasture, just that, no, you stop. That way. It's more like Manjushri as opposed to controlling with space. It's more like Manjushri.

[36:24]

So when you just raise the example of how do you control a cow by giving it a wide pasture? And then you're saying, what would be the opposite of that? And the clarity in the story of Angulimala, where there's just this moment where it's just like, no, you stop. And then stopping happens, as opposed to a lot of space allowing it to kind of dissipate. There's just this kind of sharp... And it doesn't seem to be about suppression or dampening. It just seems kind of like cutting up. It's an interesting point to call that one. Because my memory of that, and maybe I should look it up, is that it wasn't exactly like the Buddha said, you stop, do what I tell you, stop.

[37:25]

And I'm going, well, it stopped. When are you going to stop? It was more like out of their exchange, they met. And then in that meeting, there was a pause. There was a stop. It's right. Suzuki Roshi also said, oh, let me make a snake. perceives its true nature inside a stick of bamboo. Yeah. Well, that's an interesting contrast, isn't it? Give a cow a white pastor and put a snake in a bamboo. Any other comments tonight? When you said that, I said, are you attempting to give your mind a wide pasture, or are you rejecting the Quidditch native and vote?

[38:30]

It's like that line. And it's, what is it? And it's greatness. It's the line about, and it fits into spacelessness, and it's, there's that. Is it in the sound of that? So he's trying to remember a lie that comes in Al-Qir-Zalba. In its vastness, it is beyond location. In its fineness. It fits into spacelessness. It fits into spacelessness. It does look different. I would say something like this. But it's a blank. No? That it's a sophisticated practice to just be totally present and totally open and everything comes and goes.

[39:39]

And for almost all of this, that requires a certain kind of effort. Not much of rigid control, but discipline. Discipline is and a certain kind of giving over. The fetters, the attachments have to be loosened up enough that we're not in transit, and that a certain kind of discipline has to be brought into the process of sitting, the process of awareness, so that's to start to be possible. And sometimes, You know, as I was saying, way like close to when we started, the environment can help us do that. You go into this end of where everybody's sitting and you just start to feel what you just stimulate it through the environment and the activity of others.

[40:42]

And sometimes it requires a certain kind of discipline. Okay. pay attention. The mind runs away. Bring it back. Run away. Bring it back. And then as you continue to do that, that starts to loosen up. And then you can start to notice what you're doing. You can start to let it be seen. And in seeing it, that will also help loosen up the attachment to the content to the impulses that the content create. Yes, Beth. You have thoughts arising, okay, and then there's one sort of effort, if you will, or it's called trying to bring yourself to a place where you can just let it pass away.

[41:46]

And that, to me, feels like a different sort of effort from the effort of Xi. what that thought is going about. Where did it come from? You know, following the rabbit trail, because you think that that's up if one was following the rabbit trail, or sometimes it's like, I don't know what to do. Yeah. And in the awareness, it's not about where did it come from. It's more about How is it being experienced? What's it like when it's not being experienced? What is it to not give birth to it? It's more seeing how it functions in the context of our consciousness and trying

[42:49]

And that's a here and now activity. It's not a product of speculation. And that's not everything that's quite sophisticated. And it requires... You know, in some ways we could say there's two ways to work with it. But what is, where the mind is more active. We can use, there's a phrase in the sentence that says, ride the robber's horse to catch the robber. So we can use active mind to explore active mind. Oh, look at that. Look at the way I put it back together. But then there's a more settled way where it's more like, with a more grounded perception.

[43:53]

Just watching the movement of how the mind works. We're closer to a more elemental approach. We're closer to the sense doors. It's like when we're close to the sense doors We can look and experience purple and notice pleasant or unpleasant. Notice and notice associated thoughts or absence of associated thoughts. And it's not so much a product of our intellectualization as it is a more elemental arising. to that flavor with which we're being asked to look at the light. And then we're actually being asked to look at the sense doors too.

[45:00]

Okay, so that's purple. When you hear the sign of the Trevor, you grasp it, you push it away. What is heard? You know, when the mind's more sounding, what is heard that's labeled the sign of a truck? And then as we start to notice that, as we start to experience exactly grasping, it teaches us something about releasing. It's like when your shoulders are tight and you start to feel your tight shoulders, it starts to teach you something about releasing. So the sense doors, the inquiry around the sense doors is like that.

[46:05]

It's something quite elemental. I mean, what's challenging in that regard is mind. Because it's asking us to see, mind, think. And, of course, we do this inside. You know, you start to notice. Heard a car. Thought of traveling. Thought of New York. Thought of having lunch on 52nd Street. You start to see, mind, think, and courteous. And then you can even notice, will that just, like, blip out? Or did it create excitement and attachment? You know, oh, I can't wait until this is over.

[47:08]

Get back to that delight. And if you think back earlier, what I was talking about, when I was talking about shallow coming back, to direct experience as a process of pausing and reconnecting. So this is another way to come at that too, but using a particular sense tool. And sometimes that's a helpful way to engage awareness. It's just become aware of what you're seeing. So let me offer you an exercise in that. So put your hands up like this. And become aware of what you're seeing in between your hands. Hold the field. Don't stare at an object.

[48:09]

Just become aware that you're kind of framing a picture. And see the whole picture. And then slowly move your hands towards your Correspondingly, let awareness of the field of vision wide. You're staying aware of both hands and aware of seeing in between. And then bring your hands up all the way back and turn them right on the edge of your field of vision. Now we're both, not just one, but both. You can even move them out of your field of vision, see where they're not in it, and then where they are in it. Okay, put your hands down.

[49:26]

So did you notice how that affected your consciousness? No. Try again. You did? Yeah. You're welcome. Yeah, I mean, it was, for me, striking like an more spacious, you know, like, you know, like It was actually very nice. The statue and you and the light. And then, you know, the screen and the other statue. And it was a good feeling. Including more. So I had this.

[50:26]

That was my experience. Thank you. I couldn't read that. I read an article on perception once and it said you go into a room and you go you see six points of reference Been here before, know that it's the dynamo. And of course, that's very efficient, no? I mean, otherwise, you have to stand here for like 20 minutes. And interestingly, the article was about autism. And it was saying, this is why when you're autistic,

[51:30]

you don't have the ability to do the quick scan and the identity. So to know where you are, you actually have to take the time to really look around. And it's like getting Google up at everything. And then, I don't know how many data points you need, 50? Then you kind of feel like then you can go down. So in that kind of deliberate attention, we change the pattern. So in a way, we can use that. And you can do the same with sun. I mean, sometimes it's helpful when you're sitting inside there and your lines round it away in an insistent or incessant way.

[52:33]

Just start hearing sounds. You can do the same with your body. Now try this one without changing your posture at all. Close your eyes. And try to let go of concept of body and just what is body? What is physical sensation right now? Without giving it thought. Now, can you experience physical sensation as directly as possible? What was that?

[53:34]

Relaxing, nice. Overwhelming. Overwhelming. Could you experience a shift? This is a very good one. I know my body. I know all about it. Sometimes then we talk about not knowing. Not knowing is most active. Can you not know your body and can you experience your body? That's what brings forth the experience. Here's another one. Why don't you stand up for a moment. I told you to bend your knees. Now, sit down, not knowing that the chair is going to support your wick.

[54:45]

Please, don't discern the chair is going to support your wick. So that one right here, I could see your faces are all a little bit more alive. So something about letting the relationship to the sense door be in light or become more or worse, and then seeing how usually, and maybe in a very functional way, we just make certain assumptions. Unfortunately for us, as creatures that are very involved in just thinking, ultimately those sense doors can support our awareness.

[55:57]

It gets, what do you call it, concealed or covered over by the thought process. And it comes back. To the simplicity of the sense to it. To not nobody, to not know in the church who supports you're with, to see the room for the first time. To not know what you're hearing, but to be available for it. To taste something. Oh, it's tomato soup. I know what tomato soup tastes like. how to taste it without knowing what can make a sip taste like. Because this is the case to make a sip. Maybe it has more pepper than you've ever had before. Yeah, that's interesting. I had this experience, which reminds me of what you were saying, which is, I mean, I was really astounded.

[57:07]

And I was looking at both the complete paintings of Leonardo da Vinci. And I was looking at it from the beginning, and they were wonderful. And I was turning pages and looking at this, that, and I turned the page, and there was the Mona Lisa. And it was like, oh my god. It was like an amazing experience of sort of like seeing the Mona Lisa for the first time. And it's like there's a sense of none of us ever see the Mona Lisa for the first time. And I don't know, that just reminded me of what you're saying. Right. Seeing this moment, hearing this moment, feeling this moment for the first time, which is actually what is happening. This moment has to correct the four yards. And letting that returning to that simplicity, to that simple involvement,

[58:12]

Then the experience supports our awareness to this kind of disposition. And then you can build this. Every time you sit down to do zaza, what is the body of this period of zaza? How is the breath of this period of zaza? Why does it sit upright on the sitcoms in a balanced position? What's the mental disposition, though, that each thing is offering itself as a distraction? I haven't seen the actual exhibit yet, but there's an exhibit at the Exploratorium about the mind, and there's one of the things, they just have all these things that... help you to explore your perceptions.

[59:15]

And one of them is they made a water fountain out of a toilet. I mean, out of something shaped like a toilet. And just that sense of, like, the difficulty of drinking water out of something that's in that shape, even though it's... And like those exercises where, like, the word pink is written in blue ink and just, like, the... the split-second differences in our ability to process that kind of information. So then in the Satyumatthana Sutra, it's talking about have the experience and notice what comes up along with it. Back when I said, well, how is it to do that? One person said, overwhelming. Another person said, delightful music. So what comes up along with it? I mean, do you grasp that?

[60:17]

Is that grasped? Oh, I want more of that. Oh, I want to escape from that. But I think mostly what I wanted to do was like to see that that element or connection to the sense doors is is a great tool for just returning to simple awareness, returning to direct experience. Because we're so inclined to be caught up in our feelings. Just to turn to something simple. And it's like to sort of go back to your question, right? If we have direct experience, direct experiencing, And then it's the capacity to direct experience that sort of comes into being. The relationship to the arising thought can be that simple.

[61:28]

Oh, that thought is happening. Oh, that memory is happening. Here it comes, here it goes. When that memory comes, it has a pleasant quality, an unpleasant quality. So that's the flavor of awareness. And then the challenge for us is how do we sustain the basis without inhibiting or trying to control human experience. And then the formulation here is like the formulation of the Senate. What helps to remove it?

[62:29]

What's it like when it doesn't happen? What is it to prevent? If you think of it, that's quite sophisticated. And as I was saying earlier, it's not so much that's intended to be spectacularly thought. The challenge is actually experience of doing it. As the mind settles, the capacity to do that just arises. Yes, sir. So I think it's a little bit, I think you're able to think, oh look, I'm remembering this. At the same time, I'm remembering it. So when I'm talking to my mind, you know, it seems like it has to be sequential. We go over this thing and stuff, and they go, oh, that was a memory for it. So I guess my question of which, it looked like we have these thoughts, and then we come back to this sort of conscious aware mind, and it's just the model and notice though, or is it sort of this parallel problem?

[63:40]

It's a parallel process. I mean, we actually form a perception, you know, in some systems that says in a third of a second, but then some other systems say in a fiftieth of a second. So it's like being aware of seeing, you know? There's seeing and being aware of seeing and, you know, in a third or second, they can flicker back and forth. So, I mean, you could say, well, it's, but they're happening individually. Well, not in the realm of our perception unless the mind is very, very quiet and very, very astute. Much more usually the cool feel like simultaneously. Okay, let me see. Any other thoughts or questions?

[64:43]

I know I said I would put out factors of awakening, and I never did. And today it will happen. In the sequence of this, that's the next thing. But please explore this one of the sad stories. Sometimes holding the practice lightly, almost more like an experiment or an exploration, is a wonderful way to practice it. Because then am I doing it right or am I doing it right? It doesn't weigh so heavily or isn't so relevant. It's more like going to the exploratory research. What happens? What happens when I sit down in a chair?

[65:48]

without knowing if it's going to support my wood? How does it affect awareness of body? How does it enhance the first contact with the surface? And what happens when I ease into and let the chair support my wood? Then what happens? Okay, well, then something in the body that's holding itself can relax. But it's something lost. If my mind sort of goes, oh, thank goodness, that's over and I can go back to thinking. If I'm not thinking, over and stop. I had a couple of quick thoughts when you were talking, talking about things. You were talking about New York, and we were visiting, and the week we came to mind, There are a bunch of assholes in New York.

[67:00]

Experiencing your tomato soup. I visualize myself contemplating this tomato soup. Telling some people around me about this experience with my tomato soup. And I visualized them saying, this guy's smoking grass or something. Yeah. Right. A couple of slides. Yeah. And I would say that it came to us as if you were talking about it. It's like, the experience can come up and it has the space to be itself. Okay. This was what was heard, and here was the associated thought. Okay. Where's the problem? That's it. And there's nothing to push against, or there's nothing to kind of overcome.

[68:05]

Just, that's it. We're here now. It is what it is. Let it arise. Let it fall. And I would say connecting to the sense doors. Oh, they offer that kind of support. And when we started to do this, rather than awareness being something that I am manufacturing through my skillful Zen practice, it's more like the whole world is inviting me into the field of awareness. It's more like everything's already here. Why don't I just join it in being there? You know, rather than I'm doing it, it's just here to appreciate. Thank you. I love to save them.

[69:29]

Delusions are inexhaustible. I love to save them.

[69:39]

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