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Entering the Buddha Way - Class 7 of 14

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O7/23/2008, Ryushin Paul Haller, class at City Center.
These recordings are from a three-week study intensive offered in 2008 by then-abbot Paul Haller. These talks provide an excellent introduction to basic Buddhism and Zen.

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The talk focuses on Zen practice and the application of mindfulness, particularly the cultivation of the fourth foundation of mindfulness, referred to as "mindfulness of mind" or "mindfulness of Dharma." This involves examining everyday experiences as expressions of Dharma, emphasizing the shift from habitual reactions to a more contemplative and open engagement with reality. The discussion explores the complexities of human responses, such as clinging and aversion, and the transformative potential of practice to foster an expansive understanding beyond personal narratives.

  • The Four Foundations of Mindfulness: The focus is on the fourth foundation, which is critical for mindfulness practice and entails observing the mind's content and workings.
  • The Five Aggregates (Skandhas): These are form, feeling, perception, impulse, and consciousness—frameworks for understanding self and experience in Buddhism.
  • Hindrances in Practice: Addressing mental obstacles like clinging, aversion, sluggishness, restlessness, and doubt, which hinder mindfulness and understanding.
  • Koans and Stories of Zen Masters: Polishing the tile and other stories illustrate the mind's intricate processes and potential for insight, contributing to the dialogue on understanding and realizing Dharma.
  • Yunmen and “The Whole World is Medicine”: A teaching that underscores seeing every experience as an opportunity for practice and growth.

The talk interweaves these concepts into a broader reflection on personal transformation through mindfulness, highlighting the potential for relational growth and reduced suffering.

AI Suggested Title: Mindful Pathways to Personal Transformation

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Transcript: 

So as I mentioned, this is on you. As I mentioned one of the texts that have been guiding my thoughts in this kind of, it establishes these three phases of mindfulness and then And the fourth mindfulness, as I was saying yesterday, there is contemplation or examination of Dhamma, sometimes called mindfulness of mind. Classically, it's mindfulness of mind content. But it's contemplation, it's mindfulness of mind content as an expression of dharma, expression of dharma.

[01:41]

The reason I interjected Yunwen's coin is that there's a similar sensibility, which is that the very stuff of our everyday life, of what arises for us, is dharma. And it's the latest for human life. So to my mind, there's also an interesting distinction between the two styles, where I think of the word Chinese style, which is, as I said before, almost like a poetic expression. The whole world is made versus the Indian style, which we're going to delve into, which gives you five categories. A series of seven categories within each of those categories.

[02:54]

What's that? And a lot of what? Yeah. You know, in some ways you could say, well, maybe whatever appeals to you is reflective or indicative of your own sort of learning process or personality or how your brain works. But I would also say that there's a certain complementary nature to it. Like sometimes drawing your attention closely to how a piece of music comes in being. First of all, there's this, and then the wind instruments come in, and then the percussion instruments come in, and then the string instruments make me go, oh, yes, and it comes more alive. And then in other ways, just listen to its beauty, how it all comes together in one exquisite piece.

[04:04]

And so for the rest of the intensive and the sashim, I will, you know, look at some of these lists and then try to add in some zen summaries. So in a way we could say the whole world is medicine is young men and say, okay, when you've established the three basic foundations of mindfulness, then The very same horizon in our human nature can be seen through the light of Dharma. Seek through the light of Dharma. So this is very interesting. And it's only a sophisticated proposition because it's not saying suppress your neutral responses. It's saying be present and drive it, have established the foundation in a grind sufficient way that as you experience what's being experienced, that instead of simply categorizing it, identifying it, relating to it from an unusual way of doing that, that you do it another way.

[05:36]

That's a pretty sophisticated proposition. And I would say for most of us as practitioners, we create all sorts of variations on the thing. Sometimes we separate from a certain part of ourself. I was just thinking when I was contemplating what I was going to say. experience I had. My first intense meditation experience was a 10-day retreat in the suburbs of Bangkok. And the retreat was like this. You go into this room, about eight feet long, about four, our retreat wide, and you just stay in that room. The only time you reach to go to that room.

[06:38]

White walls, white Wood floor, white walls. Single light bulb. And I remember being there, and after about four days, I kind of lost track of time. I couldn't quite remember how long I'd been there. And then going up to go to the bathroom, I thought, I'm not sure I'm going to be the same after this. What? And I remember a kind of like a jolt of kind of fear or something. I went, uh-oh. And I got myself into it. And then a kind of... Well, I wasn't so great anyway.

[07:38]

One of the things that motivates us to kind of like give over to a different way to frame our experience. You know, whether it's a moment, you know? Okay, I could hate that person or I could reframe it and ask, well, what's going on for them that they behave that way? And what's going on for me that I responded the way I responded? You take the same experience and you relate to it different. That's what this foundation of mindfulness is about, the fourth foundation. And then, of course, when we ask those questions, We get all sorts of interesting information. When we just follow our habitual mind, I hate them.

[08:49]

I hate people who are like that. My world is filled with people like that. What do I do to deserve this? Where the hell can I go to get away from it? Yeah. And what promises, what supports us, what inspires us, what guides us to do that? What kind of willingness, motivation? And in the realm of practice, that very question, that contemplation, as we take up the subject, and you apply your life to it. It's different from obsessive thinking. And also, as a utility in practice, reflection.

[10:01]

Here's one of my hazard patterns. And the hope is that from having established the foundations, that we're a little more settled, a little more spacious, we're a little more attentive than to just be unconsciously reactive. This exploration is going to ask us to look at all that we are. It's going to invite in parts of yourself that maybe you are not so inclined to look at. That some part of you has set up a defense against. To put it in a psychological framework. So the first exploration in this list is to look at that.

[11:15]

What here are everybody defensive? What kinds of things trigger them? What would it be like to not be triggered? So some of this, we could say, has a certain quality of reflection and contemplation. And the idea is that that sort of sets the stage or helps to heighten our work. Last time I had an interaction with that person, I got really angry. OK. So there's something about how I interact with that person that has a trigger for me. Okay, next time I have an interaction, I'm really gonna try to notice what that's about.

[12:24]

What way do I get triggered? Do I get frightened? Do I feel sad? Do I feel offended? What happens? So the contemplation reflection stimulates something. helps us to be motivated to bring this kind of attentiveness to our human experience. And what it isn't about, it isn't about. And then I'll fix it. And then I'll get it right. And then I'll be, you know, whatever. It's a more open, unknowing exploration. Something will be revealed.

[13:30]

Something will be realized. And I don't need to know, I don't need to have a goal in this process. It's like the foundations, as we settle into them, They offer us a way of being that doesn't have to have all the answers and doesn't have to be in control of what happens next. It's like a willingness to participate in the experience of not. You come out of a little room, go to the bathroom, and it's like, am I willing to do this? Good question. Are you or are you not? Hopefully, in the terms of practice, you are willing to practice.

[14:36]

Hopefully, you've looked and reflected on your own processes and say, when I look at my processes, you see I get stuck. How do you suffer? I don't think there's too many of us who can say, I don't. I'm completely free. I live a little bit. And I wait. And I hanged in every moment. But you know, if that is the answer, well then, end of story. Don't go back in the little room. How long were you supposed to stay in the room? Well, it was a 10-day event. Yes. All week you've been using the terms, talk, and question, and reflection together. But there seems to be a difference between what those people mean.

[15:43]

Have we talked about what that difference is? So you mean the same thing? I'm wondering. is to receive, is to look back. Reflect on what happened when you were talking to that person. Okay. And contemplate is more like contemplating the notion of impermanence. But it's not necessarily reflecting back on when you experience it. Contemplate cold in your mind's eye and think about this. Contemplation is more present.

[16:44]

Contemplation is more intentional thinking on a particular subject. And reflection is more like we see it. So in this last slide, there's what we call, we translate as the hindrances. Sometimes the original word is translated as the vectors. Maybe just say places we get stuck or go back. But then there is the The aggregates, the sense doors, the factors of awakening, the four noble truths.

[17:49]

And the idea is that when there is a grind of awareness of sati, our life experience will express this. This is going to be expressed. We're going to see this. And then there's a delicate balance that are cut. Some part of it is like re-break. You know, you could say, well, isn't that imposing a certain kind of thought or way of thinking? It's a delicate point, you know? In a way, yes, but then in another way, all it's really doing, it's more like it's offering a question.

[18:53]

Does any of this appear in your life? You know, like the first two factors are, you know, claiming an aversion. No? But it's not about saying, see your life as claiming an aversion. It's more like a question. Can this be seen in your life? when you pay close attention to what's happening, is this here? So they're like this. There's clinging and aversion. And then there's a kind of, like what you could call, and they both cause a certain kind of suffering. And then the next three hindrances, what do we do with that suffering? One is you become kind of heavy and burdened by it.

[19:55]

Kindly translated as sloth and tartar. In fact, it becomes heavy. Calm and rising. Low energy. And then the other one is like the flip side of that. It becomes anxiety-producing, agitated, restless, worry, anxiety. And as you can see, they're kind of related. If you push it down, it becomes depressed. It rises up. It becomes agitation, anxiety, restless, can't sit still, can't stop your mind spinning. And then the last one is doubted.

[21:01]

You're kind of stumped, kind of stuck. Well, then what is the right thing to do? What's, what is, how do I know? I kind of know what's right. It's as if the other entrances, we were sort of disconnected. I remember once working with someone who was in the throes of a psychotic delusion and seeing the fear in their eyes. They didn't know what was going on. Like there was no, but there was always amazing stuff, you know, forces, images, all sorts of stuff, blasting them. And they had no idea, it's like, I'm here, I'm on the Earth, I see, I hear them.

[22:05]

And it produced this kind of always like panic. But this quality is a doubt. If all the hindrances are like to what can you trust? If your mind is jumping from this to that, what can you say? Okay. That's what I think. That's what I feel. So those are the hindrances. And I want to quote .. What page is that?

[23:13]

Hinderances are on page. 182. What I've got back today is start. I think the super says, okay, how does a practitioner regard the donna of congregating the entrances? Essential desire happens. She knows there's essential desire. Essential desire is not present to know sensual desire is not present. So that's, you know, and that, think about it, that's kind of interesting too, to acknowledge. Okay, right now there is no desire. There's a certain balancing wisdom to that. Because when we see ourselves exhibit a certain trait, We can think, oh, I'm always like that.

[24:15]

Or our psychological bias is that in our self-image, we attribute significance to certain kinds of experiences. If our self-image says, I'm a really sweet person, then when we do something sweet, We pull it forward. And then those other experiences where maybe we're not so sweet, they tend to receive. They tend to not be affirmed the same way. Or it's negative. Which, interestingly, is a more common way to do it. We pull forward the affirmation of that and give it more significantly. The therapist once told me, he thought it was five to one. When you have a particular established notion about who you are, one affirmation of that balances five negations.

[25:28]

So it took five. You know what I mean? Then you have to experience five times, no, I'm not like that, no, I'm not like that, no, I'm not like that, no, I'm not like that. And then you sort of think, okay, sometimes I am, sometimes I'm not. And then very interestingly, the more they're settled, the more that is coming from a grandi, impartial place, from that side bias operates, And this is part of the gift of practice. The more the moment will just be upbeat, that's what's arising now. The less it's given this relevant significance in terms of our psychological truth. So knowing when it's present and knowing when it's not present starts to help us create

[26:37]

and impartial observation of our experience. And then the next one is fascinating because it says, knowing how it can arise. So where do you get triggered in relationship to that? this kind of situation does it for me. This kind of interaction does it for me. So to be aware of that too. And I would say that tends to arise more from reflection as a consequence of knowing past experience. And then, very practically, how can it be See?

[27:41]

Okay, so there you are. You're in the throes of something. What helps you to drop it? And then in our practice, I would take in all practice, the difference between dropping it, suppressing it, avoiding it, distracting yourself from it is not dropable. suppressing it and trying to convince yourself that's not what happens. It's not even. So there's something about right effort, something about what is it to practice with that? There's an exact thing as to it. How can it be removed?

[28:42]

And then the last one, world health cannot fall into bed in the future. So there's quite an extensive range there. What's it like when it's there? What's it not when it's not there? What brings it up? What are the triggers? how to drop it, and how not to go there in the future, how not to have that happen. So you can see that there's a kind of a function of reflection and contemplation. And I would say This is sort of what I was saying earlier. What's happening?

[29:43]

What is it to practice with it? And what happens when you practice with it? So maybe you think, okay, I see it. Here's how to not have that happen in the future. That's the arising request. And then you check it out and see what happens next time. So that each one of the beggars, of the places we get stuck, of the places, of the ways of being that cut us off will be grinded, centered, attentive and available to experience the moment.

[30:49]

So in the realm of desire, in the realm of aversion. Each one of us, can you see it? With those two come up in so many ways. There's so many different ways they'll be active with that. And maybe in relationship to different sense objects. There are certain thoughts that create bizarre. There are certain foods that may create bizarre, or certain activities that may create bizarre, or a version. And then in the realm of this one of becoming birth, of becoming hip, how does that

[31:56]

What goes on for me when I'm feeling hectic, rising, sluggish, unmotivated? What goes on when I'm feeling restless, educated? What goes on when there's a kind of a loss of And it's being replaced by the sort of corrosive diet. We don't have access to that. It's difficult to find out how to be OK with not being OK. How to be OK with not being OK? Yeah. It's a great question. How to be OK with not being OK? And that's a secondary question for us, right?

[33:32]

it's not performing in the way I want to, it's not happening in the way, at the speed in which I want it to happen. I don't be okay with not being okay. The other foundations of mindfulness, they're an invitation in a way into going beyond the self, to be grounded in direct experience. Because not okay is part of the formulation of me, of my responses. Being aware of the first foundation of rupa.

[34:37]

What's being directly experienced? What's physical? Which I said earlier, a little confusingly, also includes experiencing the thoughts in your mind. In the Buddhist scheme, that's also like tangible experience. Something that would be grounded in that, opens up a big month, to use a Z term. Which means, here's the world according to me. And when there's grinding in experience, the world according to me becomes part of an experience of something bigger. The world is more than what I think. When we're caught in it, It is simply what I think it is. When we grind it creates the opportunity, the possibility of something bigger.

[35:49]

Oh, here's what's happening. And here's what I'm thinking into it. Does that make sense? And then from that place, reality isn't defined by me and isn't dependent upon my narrative. Did that make sense? No? Yes? Because this is a very important point, because... It makes sense, but... giving me the experience of that and just feel free from that kind of, not being okay, which is what, you know? Yeah, if there's some visceral feeling I have that says, it has to be the way I want it to be.

[36:52]

If it has to be okay on my terms, it's almost impossible to allow it something that's beyond my terms, right? And when we're really caught in that place, it has to be according to my terms. It feels like life and death. That's our feeling. I'll die if sometimes we say, I don't know what I'd do if that happened. I don't know how I'd keep living. And we can have that as a visceral feeling that can pop up in a relationship. an intense situation. What big mind has developed is kind of like a basis that can hold either or not opinions. Creating the context of practice, both externally, environmentally, and internally, is to create

[38:04]

But it's not a confidence, I know I'm gonna get what I want. It's more like a confidence in the process of practicing. Okay, I don't know if I'm gonna get what I want. I don't feel too good about this. But it's okay to practice with. Something that, process that's going on here is bigger than I will I or will I not get what I want or avoid what I don't want. Well, the question that arises for me is those times when you get to the place where you know how it is that it took a while, right? Well, when you ask yourself how can it be deceased, then that answer may not necessarily look up.

[39:23]

How can it be deceased or what would help it not to fall into that in the future? In other words, how to stop those triggers and how to not fall into those triggers in the future oftentimes are not answers that arise. Yeah. And first of all, I would say, when the light is settled, when the heart is settled, the kind of intriguing questions, the kind of inviting a closer relationship, a more intimate relationship with that whole process. Like inviting this more thoroughly into the process. And what's going on here? And when that's not happening, what's going on? And what brings it up? And And what is it to let it go? And what would be the, what would need the ship to ride and not be hooked by that in future?

[40:30]

It's inviting us to get into a process. And in a significant way, becoming truly interested in the process. So not necessarily chasing the answer to those questions, but they're asking the question. We put me in engaging the process. All that energy, which is usually going in a bit more dualistic manner. Am I going to get it or am I going to not get it? Am I going to win or am I going to lose? Am I going to be safe and happy or am I going to be distraught at heart? When I sit with it,

[41:47]

Yeah, that's a good point. Sometimes I just somehow park the question somewhere. I don't know how I do it. And then just wait. And then things like today, maybe another day. I'll pop something down. Oh, I see, okay. So that's where the answer is that one. And it'll just, but before I try to find an answer, it just seems, it doesn't prop up to my opinion. Very good point. As I was saying a couple of days ago, sometimes the answer we get right then, it's don't know. And the gift of don't know is because usually when we're asserting a certain frame of reference, and we can't get this to fit in our usual repertoire of references, to not know allows us to kind of loosen up our habituated thinking around this.

[43:13]

So like, yeah, just to kind of like, okay, give it a rest. Okay, don't know is where you're at with this right now. That's where you're at with it. You know, just let it at rest. And then as you say, sometimes there's a different activity happening and it's like, oh, and that, and sometimes what that's about And it shows you that different activity. This is creating its own kind of perspective, its own kind of involvement. And that's helpful for that question. So a good point. When there isn't a ready answer to those questions, there isn't a ready answer. Sometimes it's about trusting that. It's about allowing that.

[44:14]

Because it's going to help us loosen up some of our habitual ways of thinking. Don't know why it's just to learn. Whereas figuring it out, the way I figure this out, can sometimes create too narrow perspective. It makes me think I have such an appreciation for like how the body of koans is kind of like a model of all the gambits the mind makes and how like and the way it works so beautifully and like that what's coming up now is that story of polishing the tile and like that sense of like I'm going to make a mirror out of a tile and and how that doesn't work. But then there, and with that, there are so many stories of where someone's doing something else, and then like a rock hits a reed or something like that, and it sort of triggers something, and all this, and just the way that something's said to someone else, we hear it for the first time finally, and just those ways that the mind is just so...

[45:35]

It's so powerful in seeking and finding its own sanity. There are a lot of resources available to us beyond the ones we so determinedly set out. Yes. If we're in that kind of open state, we don't know what presents itself. So have we mastered the hindrances? What's the name of this meta list? What's the name about this? This is what the fourth foundation of mindfulness is. I would say it's called, sometimes it's called mindfulness of mind, and then sometimes it's called

[46:44]

And maybe more rightly, so mindfulness abnormal. And then there's a list, a list of different things. And then the idea is having established this, then each one of these becomes the object of observation and inquiry. And then the first one is the hindrance. The notion of meaning, well, Here's where you're getting stuck and here's why it's not allowing awareness to be more settled and more open. So take a look at it and look at it in these five words. And then the second list is the five attributes. And so normally when we construct a notion of self through all sorts of interesting influences that have come to bear on our life, in a way the five aggregates is offered a different construction of self.

[48:05]

Is there anybody not familiar with that term, the five scounders, the five aggregates? You haven't heard that term? Well, it's form, feeling. And the translation, these are the Sanskrit or Pali words so much. Form, feeling, perceptions, impulses, affirmations, and then consciousness. And the kid with family or description of the first word, as I said earlier, is root. A little misleading because everything tangible Except in Buddhist thought, thoughts are tangible. A thought is a tangible disturbance. It can be apprehended through the sense door of the mind. The same way to say it can be apprehended through the sense door of the mind. And then any one of those gives rise to like a feeling response.

[49:09]

A simple feeling response is pleasant, unpleasant, neutral. a more complicated feeling response is an emotion. And as we all know, an emotion can be a flicker, or it can become established, it can get connected to thoughts, to stories, to a sense of self, to a sense of others. Mostly this is just talking about in a simpler form of feeling. And then that response, so experience, kind of simple response, then we start to have a perception of what the experience is. And then out of that perception, we start to associate concepts

[50:12]

And that starting to associate concepts tends us towards, so sometimes it's called formations and sometimes it's called the impulses because as the formation starts to create, it starts to create a tendency to respond a certain way, to experience it a certain way, to think about it as a finished concept a certain way. And so the last one, Vichnana, can also just be consciousness. But here, in the agribus, when they arise with attachment, I'll talk a little bit more about that. It's more like the word gestalt. There's a take on the event. Okay. A particular take on it. A particular established experience of it.

[51:16]

Oh, it's this. So this process happened, and here's the result. And then the more we grasp, the more each part of that is grasped, the more solid the result. This is reality. The more it arises, I started, the more it's like, well, this is an expression of reality. Here's how it's coming into being right now. It's a very sort of calling that big mark. It's like, here it is, and it's sort of related to as They are rising at the moment, out of all the possible rising that could happen.

[52:25]

Could you give an example a lot to do? A solidifying along the process of each work and also a solidifying on the same. Yeah. You're walking down the street and you see someone you know on the other side. And you wait. And you go, hi. And they totally ignore you and keep going. And, you know, okay, so. That was unpleasant. Thank you. So what's the form of that, though? Before the viewing, there's a form. Well, there's a, you know, there was a sight, you know. You saw something. That site gave rise to an interesting kind of... It's interesting because the site in itself, you know, someone not raising their arm.

[53:34]

They didn't raise their arm. They didn't raise their arm. Because they were snubbing me. And then act like that is for a more developed response. And then it's like, okay. They didn't raise their mind. They're snubbing me. And then whatever other associated thoughts you want to have about that. Or, you know, who are they to think, you know, they're so much better than me if I wait for that and I don't wait for that. And they think of themselves as a Dora practitioner. They're so deluded. Such a nice imaginary situation.

[54:43]

But you're in it. And then you go into your friend and say, I saw that arrogant deluded person again. God, I run into them everywhere. And then the other one is, you know, you raise your arm just like an eye. And they don't respond. And you kind of watch your mind sort of like, juggle a ride, okay, what am I going to do with that? And then one moment it goes, maybe they didn't recognize me. And then another moment they go, well, maybe they expect me. But maybe they're having a real hard time to do it. And they just kind of like can't eat and make that kind of connection. And you're just watching your mind bubble and vice versa.

[55:46]

And it's, but it's loose, you know, it's like, which one is right? I have to know, or whatever. It's just like, okay, this, that's the experience. Does that give you a real example? Yeah. So, person, there's the non-waving. So let's say neutral. There's the perception of non-waving. And then there is

[56:48]

The mental formation, it comes with that. You don't wait. My concept is, you're snubbing me. If I were you, that concept, that sort of impulse gives rise to, it gives energy to, it gives an inclination towards further thinking. Further concepts, judgments, emotions that I have in relationship to those concepts and judgments gives rise to what I said with the gestalt. Okay. You are, it's not the conclusion. That's the consciousness, that's the gestalt of the moment. That do it?

[57:54]

Well, yes. In the classic translation or analysis of this, that first feeling is almost like a... Pleasant, unpleasant, neutral. When we talk about emotions, that's a complex experience. If we're talking about a feeling that occurs before perception, that's very primal. But if you think about it just on the level of pleasant and unpleasant and neutral, it's very basic. So I would say it is actually helpful for us to kind of allow the feeling to be more complex.

[59:02]

The word is vague enough. So classically it just means that very primary. And I think it's helpful to allow it to include, even though strictly speaking, that's not the classic. significance of the word. But to allow it to include a clarification for us. And then we can start to see this cluster. Here's what was experienced. Here's the perceptions and accompanying our conclusions that come out of it. And here's what they proposed. in the being. Impulse. So Sankara is like it's forming and then both the concept and the impulse or energy or trajectory the concept creates. And then we know that.

[60:06]

Consciousness is like, okay, and then here's the reality of it. I have this exact experience that you described to a letter. Except they weren't across the street. They were, like, right next to me going up the stairs. So my mind said, you know, there's no way. So, you know, I processed this. You know, I went through this mental thing that you just described. all these variations. And I said, well, what am I going to do with this? I mean, I want to see this person again. Should I say hello? So my mind went back to other experiences I've had seeing this person. And I said, well, I must have offended them in that situation.

[61:10]

So I wrote them a note. And I said, you know, I need to talk to you about this injustice that I've done to you. So he responded to a note a couple days later. In the meantime, it took a couple days and my mind still worked. Well, this person's even not going to respond to me. So a couple of days later, I'm standing there and this person could talk to me and they said, well, hi, Ed. You want to sit down and talk to me? I said, well, sure. And... They were looking bewildered. It's like, what's this all about? You know, I said, well, I passed you on the stairs the other day. And, you know, I said, hi. And you just went on by. Like, you know, it didn't even exist. And they said, oh, God, I didn't realize. And I was going up the stairs to do something.

[62:12]

And I really didn't hear you. And I didn't know what to say there, you know. Totally, how do I get out of this? So I finally said, well, you know, I value your friendship, the relationship we have, and I just wanted to be sure. Was there anything there? So that was that, you know. But I've had situations like that in the past where I just condemned the person, You know, isolated from them. I didn't want to see them again. Of course, you're in a smaller space. You know, how are you going to avoid people like that? Right. And if you do that at that time, pretty soon, there's nobody you can talk to. They're going to stay in your room. You know. We need to experience.

[63:15]

Or more particularly, we create the experience. And then we can grasp it, and it is reality. Or not. How does disease become medicine? This is a young man's question. This is what the young man's asking us to discover. throws like this ridiculous statement that says whatever your experience is medicine. Wow. How's that medicine? Is that like saying that's another way to practice or it's an opportunity to practice? Yeah. It's like seeing that trait within yourself and then you know I mentioned it

[64:18]

Sutra here is saying, okay, what did you learn about triggers? What did you learn about being triggered? What did you learn about what it's like when it's not there? What did you learn about how not to get hooked in that way? There are the interesting practical questions. And you were right. That was a big lesson for me. Yeah. I mean, when I take a lesson like that, I mean, you know, next time that it happens, you know, we're a little less likely to be good. A little less likely. I mean, actually, it can't even help. You know? Maybe that was so profound. Whatever we do. whatever that propensity or tendency was, has really diminished dramatically.

[65:26]

Or maybe not. You know? So watching that too, wow, I just got hooked exactly the same way I did last week. The very same event happened again. I just like went straight to it and grabbed it. How amazing is that? How well established that trait is it? When this person walking down the street, you saw them the next day walking down the street, and you waved again, and they didn't respond. They just walked out by. Does that give credence to the fact that they always stuff at you? Well, there is whatever that happens. you're doing. And who knows, maybe they ain't even their arm and they can't, right? Should you talk to them?

[66:29]

Maybe not like me, and I'm short-sighted, so probably probably here at the door. I have to know your body, because I can't make direct your facial features. I know the opposite. Once there was someone across the street, and I thought they were waving to me. I Who knows what's going on for that person? Well, should you approach her? Maybe you talk to an old man? But that's... But that's the beauty. It's like you're in this exploration, you're in this adventure. So this is an adventure now.

[67:32]

When it's attachment, it becomes very solid and very fixed. When it's held in the realm of possibility of exploration, of investigation, Okay, now what? And then with that mind, even falling right back into the same trait, it sometimes gives us a sense of how psychologically important that behavior is for us. It's something that It really speaks of who I am. In a very significant way. And know that about yourself. Maybe it helps you have a patience for it. A compassion for it. And then when your life's so stuck in it, you know, can I dance around it?

[68:38]

You know? You know, maybe you yell even louder to the person across the street. I was really trying to escape the feelings, you know. I didn't want to deal with it. They can hurt a lot. It's now neglected, rejected. That's a very painful set of feelings. I think there's something very important for me in response to this thing of adventure and exploration I think there's a part of me that thinks that someone else had the answer about the right way to deal with it and especially if they want a position of authority and instead taking back that authority to the adventure and exploration in the way that I feel like it or I'm able to

[69:42]

I might not have so many choices, but just to explore it in one way or another and then see what happens. That seems like a wonderful thing to do there. And what I would say, so in the writing of Ascandas, it says, with attachment and without. So when we're hooked, our capacity to be flexible, adaptive, playful, is really limited, because we're cooked. There's no two ways about it. It's like this. This is what happened. Period. When we're not so cooked, it's like, well, maybe that's what happened. Or maybe this. Or that. It's like, gee, I can't wait until it happens to me and see what I do next time. This is fine. I can't wait to see what happens the next time somebody doesn't wait.

[70:46]

You know, I was, uh, yesterday when I was, uh, going through the stretching, I was late, and I clustered, I came in, I grabbed my top boot, I looked out, I ate my shoes off, and I spent about the first 15 minutes of yoga really, like, attacking myself. The guy who's a horrible sense student having laps like this. Everybody heard you walk in with your shoes. But, you know, kind of variations of a beat that I could play a lot. But there was something about this time that maybe it was the fact that we were doing yoga and I was more settled with my body. But I was able to watch that narrative in a way that happened before and to distance from it. That was so interesting that I didn't want to stop.

[71:48]

Is this not working? No. No. Do you mean you didn't hear anything I've been saying? Just nodding and smiling. Is that better? Sorry. Please. So after I kind of noticed this, you know, the story that I was replaying, it became so interesting to me that even as it started to fall away, I wanted to investigate it more. I wanted to kind of re-engage it. And then I kind of realized the story is going to come back again. And it has, so I'm not worried.

[72:57]

The whole world is made of... How can that notion. Keep rediscovering itself. Rediscovering itself. How can we let practice that the dark law hold us? Hold our fragile human responses. And entrust something. okayness of not okayness. What is that outcome that happens for us that vulnerable your being? So in one way, this super analytic role of it, and then analyze it like this, break it into these, chop it up into these parts, then pick up this part,

[74:15]

Look at it through these five ways. Then there's another way. It's almost like a deep feet. The whole world is medicine. And something about our core agitation, disturbance, dissatisfaction as a human being beheld with a certain kind of tenderness. You know, can we realize that this truly is a way to suffer less? And who wants to suffer?

[75:06]

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