So I just want you to know how much I appreciate being able to continue doing this meeting together with all of you. I felt kind of a little bit disoriented coming away from Green College after so many years from Zen Center residency. And this is a through line to practice and to all of you. And I'm just very grateful. So I wanted to thank you for that. Let you know how much I appreciate it. I really do. So what we've been talking about is in my beginner's mind and these koans that Suzuki Roshi has chosen to include in his lectures to these young, mostly young Americans who found him in Japantown and invited him to come and be their teacher, their Zen teacher. So the next chapter that we're looking at is called No Dualism, which begins with this quote.

[01:21]

To stop your mind does not mean to stop the activities of your mind. It means that your mind pervades your whole body. With your full mind, you form the mudra in your hands. To stop your mind does not mean to stop the activities of your mind. It means your mind pervades your whole body. with your full mind you form the mudra in your hands. So in this lecture, Roshi is talking about, as he almost always is, our practice of sitting, you know, zazen. And given that these lectures were given in the very earliest years of the formation of what became the San Francisco Zen Center, the people who he was talking to had very little experience of... sitting practice or hearing Buddhist talk, or some of them had done some reading or maybe been to Japan, but mostly people were really kind of clueless. They really didn't know who this person was and what he was talking about.

[02:23]

And I think he was extraordinarily skillful in talking to this culture, people in this culture, and using English, which he's... that he, you know, diligently, because he knew he wanted to come to America. He thought there was something he had to offer, and he really did. It's quite amazing. So he did a masterful job of linking the whole body experience of sitting to how a Buddhist thinks about that experience. So these are, in some ways, there are two categories of things. You know, there's the thinking about something, and then there's the something. you can think about flowers and then there's the flowers so this is that kind of um spin that we do around relative truth it has to do with language and words and comparing things and the ultimate reality which is just this just what's there you know we don't really know it doesn't have a name and we didn't have a name when we were born and we didn't have a name when we were uh you know when we were the egg was

[03:27]

hit by a sperm and turned the beginnings of a human being. There was no name there. So the name comes quite a bit later. Existence is first. And it was here. Existence is always here, is the totality of all there is, what we call the universe, another name, the universe. So this is the very thing that Buddha did as well. He had an experience, a really extraordinary and life-changing transformation for him. That was one thing. And then trying to talk about it, trying to explain it, or trying to bring other people into that experience was what he spent his life doing. So that's what the Buddha Dharma really is, is an effort for him to invite us in close enough, get close enough to the fire to feel the heat. And then you know for yourself, whether it's warm, whether it's cold, and so on. So... You know, we have that saying, words never reach it, they never will, they never have, and yet we have this capacity or this invention of language that's very important to us and has pretty much taken over what we do during our waking hours.

[04:41]

We think and we imagine things and we follow our imagination, kind of like breadcrumbs into the dark forest. But really, you know, we're really just in the dark forest, and we've come up with these various ways of continuing to thrive and to live and so on. So we know all that. We are that. That's what we are, this human species. And yet words never reach it. So... This is the two parts of what it is that we study, what the Buddha study, our experiences, and then how to discuss them, how to talk about them, how to find some meaning in what really doesn't have any meaning at all, other than what we give it. We give meaning. I once looked up this word meaning, and somewhere at the root of the word meaning is the word to moan, moaning. It made some sense to me. I thought, yeah, you know... early humans or animals, everybody, you know, everybody, anyone who's alive, any of these sentient beings, there's a lot of moaning, there's a lot of suffering that comes along with being alive.

[05:48]

So I can imagine, you know, early on saying, what does your meaning mean? What are you moaning? What's your suffering? That's our common ground is what's your suffering? Someone was telling me at lunch today that there's some meetings that are taking place among the residents. These folks are new to each other and they're talking about They're talking about their suffering and their fear and sharing their anxieties about what it means to becoming nearer and nearer to the end of life. So what's the meaning of that? What does it mean? It doesn't mean anything. And rather than trying to give it meaning, we're trying to share each other's anxieties and be close to each other so we can go through this in a way that feels supportive. That thing we like to do is support each other. so this non-duality so this lecture uh non-duality begins with the famous lines from the heart sutra form is emptiness emptiness is form followed by the lines form is form and emptiness is emptiness so these are two very important terms that those of you familiar with zen or been coming to these talks for a long time

[07:05]

You know, form is what we know most, our sense organs, our physical existence that we have pretty much learned how to get along with our legs and our arms and our senses. We kind of have learned a lot since we were born about how to be informed, informed, information, right? And emptiness, on the other hand, is this very tricky term that oftentimes people, a mistake for nothing, that there's nothing. And that's not, That's not what emptiness means. Emptiness means not separate. Empty of any separate existence. So that's the ultimate truth. The totality of the universe is the emptiness of the universe is everything is connected. Everything is dependently co-arising. And one of the things that dependently co-arises is form. The things, the visible forms, the auditory forms, all of these ways that we connect. the universe and including the mistake we make that the universe is somehow separate from our form somehow it's outside there sounds outside of us and visual visual experiences outside of us and all of that we know that and because we do it we do it all the time what's being called on here is to look at that and see if it's so see if we can get a crack in in that in that mistake that we're making about separation

[08:30]

So these famous lines from the Heart Sutra, form is emptiness, form is not separate, is empty of separate existence. And emptiness doesn't exist without form. So another common mistake is to imagine that emptiness is some kind of substance that's floating around and everything's embedded in this empty field, but actually emptiness only applies to objects. So these flowers are empty. of inherent existence. They're empty of being separate. That lamp is empty of being separate. This person is empty of being separate. So form is empty. And emptiness is form. So they're completely connected. I think we, you know, our mind wants to go like, oh yeah, it's empty over here and there's form over here. But this teaching, the heart suture is putting them over and over again, puts them back together. Form is emptiness. Emptiness is form. And Form is also form and emptiness is also emptiness. We do have something that's called Dharma positions.

[09:33]

I'm going to talk about that in a minute. So the point that Suzuki Rashi is making is that we ought not to get stuck on one side or the other of either emptiness or a form of non-separation or of separation. We should keep turning that as a dynamic pivoting between these two forms. aspects of our existence. Otherwise, if we basically get stuck on one of the other side, then we're holding dualistic views about ourselves and about our practice. And then he says, so here is you, form, and here is emptiness, which you are trying to realize through your form. So here's emptiness and here's form, and we think we're going to realize that with our form, emptiness, and that's separation. That's the tricky part. How do we realize the ultimate truth? If the relative truth and the ultimate truth are not separate, how are we gonna come to a realization about that?

[10:36]

How are we gonna have an experience about that? So this is the practice challenge. This is the one that we all keep looking at and turning in our tradition. So this reminded me of that first lecture that we looked at in Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind, where he says, you know, if you see the Buddha on the road, kill the Buddha. Kill that thing that you imagine to be separate from yourself. And ironically, kill the thing that you're trying to realize. I'm trying to realize the Buddhist enlightenment. I'm trying to awaken to the Buddhist enlightenment. We'll kill that. That's what's causing you to be separate. You think it's outside of yourself. But how do I look at myself? Well, that's the trick. How does the eye look at the eye? How does the person look at the person? How do we actually have an experience of ourselves that doesn't separate us from that experience? It's not so easy. Not so easy. So when we're trying to stop our mind,

[11:37]

from thinking this is the stage of form is emptiness. So I'm going to stop my mind from thinking. A lot of people think that this is what we're supposed to be doing in our meditation practice. You know, when we're sitting zazen, we're supposed to stop thinking. People talk to me about that all the time. I just can't stop thinking. I'm going, yeah, I know. Me either. That's just really not practice. And no one has really managed that, you know, because that's not what's going to get you there. Stop thinking is not exactly what we're supposed to be doing. Understand your thinking. Understand the nature of thinking is really much more important, much more what we're doing. And I tried a very long time to stop my thinking. And the Buddha tried to stop his thinking. There's a wonderful story in the early sutras of him trying to stop his thinking. And he clenched his jaws really hard. And he tried to hold his breath. He tried to stop breathing with his will. And then in the sutras it says that the air came out of his ears.

[12:41]

He couldn't do it. You know, there's wonderful telling of his efforts to do these things that we all try to do as well. And then, you know, it's good when we read that, we go, wow, that's amazing. The Buddha did that too before he sat down under the tree and just allowed himself to be aware of what was going on in his mind, to study his mind, rather than to be objecting to it. They're trying to, you know, get rid of somehow, get rid of his thinking mind. So what we're really being taught to do is to stop thinking that we're separate from either thinking or not thinking. There's some thinker. You may all know that book, I forget the author, Thoughts Without a Thinker. So, you know, there is no thought. There is no thinker. There are thoughts. And there's also no thoughts. No, that's true. Those things are true.

[13:41]

But we keep trying to imagine that that's us that's doing it. There's an entity that's either thinking or not thinking. And again, that's the dualistic proposition that we're kind of trapped in. So, for example, that there is a separate self, you know, an I, that could realize something called not thinking. You know, I can not think. You know, what is the I that's not thinking? That's this funny idea. In which case, we are still being caught in this belief of separation. The separation of the I and of not thinking. I'm not thinking. So this is what Dogen Zenji is also talking about in his instructions for seated meditation. If you can remember back to the Fukanza Zenji, He says, Dogen says, it's kind of his most famous line in that talk he gave. Think not thinking. How do you think not thinking, the monk analysis.

[14:44]

Dogen says non-thinking. This in itself is the essential art of Zazen. Think not thinking. How do you think not thinking? Non-thinking. This is in itself the essential art of Zazen. So non-thinking is inclusive of both thinking and not thinking. It's that kind of seesaw where you have thinking over here and not thinking over here. And non-thinking is the pivot that moves this way and that way. I mentioned that wet seal on a ball trying to balance. Our dualistic thinking is trying to basically keep balancing ourselves between any two things that we conjure up and... Imagine as being separate, like good and bad, or self and other, and just like non-thinking, you know? That's non-self-centeredness and so on. You don't get rid of it, and you don't hold on to it.

[15:46]

So that's why it's moving. It's dynamic. This whole process is dynamic. We can feel that all the time. We're always slipping and sliding. You know, the mind doesn't just stay on one thing. You know, how long can you do that? Not very long. Last week I was really remembering that both Hope and Drew asked these very good questions about this common experience that we all have about this relationship between two things, such as firewood and ash, as Drew was asking, or such as having a crush on someone and wondering what turns a crush into a relationship. And so if we think that a crush is a relationship, we might be very disappointed. when the crush ends and the relationship begins. You know, where did the crush go? I don't have a crush on you anymore, you know? Now we're married, or whatever it is. But it's sort of like we keep imagining that one of these things becomes the other. But actually, you know, they're really both what are called, again, Dharma positions.

[16:49]

They have their own integrity. They're not separate within... the non-dual universe, they're not separate from each other, but they have their own integrity. They have their own presence, you know, for us. So I remember saying to my therapist many, many years ago, I said, you know, I've never fallen in love with a human being, you know, meaning that as soon as a person appeared to me as a human being, then this disappointment was pretty devastating. You know, well, you're not who I thought you were. And, of course, they're not, and they never were who I thought they were. So I think we all, maybe, or many of us have fallen into that trap of being in love with the image of a person, you know, and how disappointing. You know, be in love with our crushes. And it's like narcissists staring with loving eyes at his own image in the water. It's like... God, you're gorgeous. It's like, yeah. Maybe you need to get up and go walk around and find someone else to talk to.

[17:51]

You basically will die by the river. And that's just one of the ways fantasies work. So even so, even though we confuse form and emptiness, we confuse crushes and relationships, and we confuse firewood and ash, we still need to start... our study of non-duality from this Dharma position of dualistic thinking. I mean, that's where we start. We don't get to start with non-dualistic thinking because then we'd already be done. You know, we'd have it all done. So we all start where we are, which is pretty much the only way we can, you know. The only kind of thinking we can do is dualistic thinking. So just knowing that is important because we know that that's how we roll. So by studying dualistic thinking as we sit in the midst of our whole body and mind meditation practice, you always bring your whole body and mind into the zendo, right? You don't leave any part of it outside.

[18:51]

Your whole being goes into the zendo or into your house or into your car or whatever you're doing, your whole body and mind is doing it, right? So the way our mind forms these dualistic notions becomes more and more clear and more and more interesting. as we observe them. One of the nice things about Zazen is eventually when you stop thinking there's something you're supposed to do, like not thinking, you begin to find it really interesting. Well, what are you doing? What is going on here with this whole body and mind? What's it up to? It's pretty interesting. If you're not judging it, you're not trying to get out of it, you're just sort of in it. You're just in yourself, being awake and aware. So Suzuki Roshi says that when our practice becomes effortless, then you can stop your mind. Well, kind of funny. He said you can't stop your mind. He says you can stop your mind when your practice becomes effortless. And what he means by that is when your mind is simply what's happening, and what's happening is the all-inclusive reality from which we and all things are being born moment after moment, then your mind, as separate,

[20:05]

from what's happening, simply stops. So what stops is separation. It's just what's happening. That's all. It's not starting or stopping or going or jumping or whatever. It's just happening. This is what we call what's happening. What's happening? Good question. What's happening? So Roshi goes on to say that when your mind follows your breathing and when your full mind forms the mudra with your hands, mudra is the cosmic mudra. Some of you learned that in your sitting practice, putting your hands together with the fingers overlapping and your thumb tips touching, and you're holding that gesture down around your abdomen. That's our sitting practice. He said, you form the mudra with your hands, and when with your whole mind you sit with painful legs without being disturbed by them, that's so easy, this is to sit without any gaining idea. You're not wanting the pain to go away.

[21:08]

You're not wanting it to get worse. You're just there with it. You're just seeing what is pain. And I've spent a lot of years wondering about that. What is knee pain anyway? Just what is it? What is it? And I've learned quite a lot about it by being interested in pain, you know, because it wasn't going to go away, not until the bell rang. So, and I agreed to stay there. until the bell rang, so I had a wonderful opportunity to find out a lot about, you know, the heat, and constriction, and how to relax, and how to not mind, not mind it, don't give it my mind, you know. So without wanting things to be different than they are, you know, that's our secret, kind of secret sauce, and to find your way under these restrictions is... the way of practice, that is practice, to find our way under restrictions. You know, zazen is kind of a voluntary restriction. I mean, I chose to do that, and I kind of got interested in doing that, and I did it a lot, but I was volunteering for it.

[22:11]

I could get up and leave anytime I wanted. I knew that. And there are many things in life we can't get up and leave. You know, there's a lot of kinds of suffering that's not optional. our loved ones and ourselves, you know, as we're aging and sickening and dying, as the Buddha was, you know, aware of, it caused him to run away from home. We'd like to run away from home. You know, I don't want that stuff, but here it comes. So how can I practice with holding still and allowing things to be the way they are? You know, it's not easy, but it's really, it's a lot better than trying to run away because you just, you can't, you know, we can't. So in the next few paragraphs of this talk, Roshi admonishes us not to think that because of non-duality, whatever we do is zazen, or is okay, is included. Whatever we do is zazen. Or that each crush is a relationship. It's all the same, so whatever I've got going is whatever I want it to be.

[23:14]

I can just let it be, let it be a relationship, even though it's a crush relationship. And so on. Or I'm just going to stay in bed even though it's time for zazen. Or the firewood is already destined to be ash. You know, it's already over. The cup's already broken, that's Zen's saying. So each and every aspect of this all-inclusive reality has, as I was saying, what's called its own dharma position. Ash has a dharma position. Firewood has a dharma position. Whole cups have one and broken cups have one. I have accepted this name. My Dharma name is Fu. So that's my Dharma position. People ask me, what's your name? I say, my name is Fu. That's my Dharma position. And my hands are hands, and my feet are feet, and my friends are my friends. So each of these aspects of Fu are Dharma positions in their own right. My hands are not my feet. People I don't know are not my friends, but they could be.

[24:16]

They're not yet. So form is form, and emptiness is emptiness, and each has its own dharma position. And zazen is zazen, and it's not sleeping in just because you don't feel like going to the zendo in the morning. So neither one is better or worse than the other. Sleeping in isn't bad. It's fine. You call it bad. You call it a cat. It's not a cat, and it's not bad. It's just what you chose to do. It's its own dharma position. And going to the Zendu is a Dharma position, and it doesn't give you some kind of virtue, even though we tend to ascribe ourselves virtue when we do things that we should be doing anyway. So these are just aspects of this all-inclusive reality. However, thinking that whatever I do is Buddha nature or ultimate reality, and therefore it doesn't matter what I do, and therefore there's no need to practice Auzan, is already dualistic thinking. Roshi says.

[25:16]

And dualistic thinking is delusional. It's not that that's bad, because that's the kind of thinking we're mostly doing. Or as my young friend called it, delulu. You know, we're kind of delulu by nature. That's not bad. It's just the way we are. It's just how we came into the world. And then Roshi says, if things really don't matter, there's no reason to say so. You don't have to bring it up. Doesn't matter. You don't have to say so. Well, that doesn't matter. So when we say it doesn't matter, we are still caught in some dualistic idea about what does and doesn't matter. If you're not concerned about what you do, he says, then when you sit, you just sit. When you eat, you just eat. And if you say it doesn't matter, then you are making some excuse to do things your own way with your small mind. It means you're attached to some particular thing. or way that is being made up by you. So that's that self-centeredness, that kind of self-entrapment in the separate self that likes to do things its own way, and I don't have to do what you tell me, and so on and so forth.

[26:28]

And it's a really tricky matter because, as we know, living with other humans, we all have our own way. And particularly in community, like Zen Center and... And so village, people have their own way. And it was funny, someone was saying that when folks first got here, the first wave of people who came some months ago, the first few days, there were about 50 of them, the pioneers. They'd sit at the table and just go, oh, it's so wonderful. Everyone's so kind and the food's so good. And about three days later, my heat isn't working. And I've called the maintenance and they haven't shown up. And they went from this kind of bliss state to everyone was just complaining all the time. And I think they were pointing that out to each other too, which is really good. That's taking your Dharma position and finding the delusion in it and saying, well, that's pretty funny. that we're doing that. Oh, it's so wonderful. And oh my God, it's terrible. You know, swinging back and forth between one pole and the other.

[27:31]

So Roshi then adds, when we say justice is enough for whatever you do is zazen, of course, whatever we do is zazen. But if so, there's no need to say it. So that's he repeating that point again. He then goes back to sympathizing with the challenges we have. as sincere sitters and Zen practitioners. You know, these painful knees, sleepiness, upsets of many kinds, you know, all of that difficulty is because we have not yet learned to accept things the way they are. Or as he says, things as they is. Things as they is. When you can respond to everything, whether good or bad, without disturbance or without being annoyed by the feelings you're having, then that is actually what we mean by form is form and emptiness is emptiness. He then uses the example of having a serious illness and trying to use your practice as a way of not minding the sickness.

[28:33]

Wouldn't that be good? Have you ever tried that at the dentist to not mind what the dentist is doing in your mouth? I haven't been able to do that. I'm kind of like, when's it over? When will you be done? Anyway, we would like to, though, be able to just stop minding what's happening. So wanting to empty the mind, to stop our thinking and our feeling in order to not be afraid or discouraged or in pain, this, he says, is the practice of form is emptiness. Emptiness is form. It's a dualistic practice, and although it will give some relief, it won't be as much as if we're able to understand form is form, and emptiness is emptiness, and pain is pain, and hunger is hunger, and sadness is sadness. And that's how we roll. That's how we move through life. So without understanding, even though our life is short, by living completely each day and each moment, life is also very wide.

[29:35]

Maybe short, but it's very wide. When Buddha comes, you welcome. When the devil comes, you welcome them. Right? So in the next paragraph, Roshi offers a famous koan by Chinese Zen master Umong, who responded to a question. He said, sun-faced Buddha, moon-faced Buddha. That's a famous line from Umong. Sun-faced Buddha, moon-faced Buddha. When someone had asked him about being ill, he was quite ill. It was toward the end of his life. How are you, Roshi? Sun-faced Buddha, moon-faced Buddha. So this, Suzuki Roshi says, is the practice of form is form. Emptiness is emptiness. Sun-faced Buddha, moon-faced Buddha. Sun-faced is short. The day is short. Moon is long. Cycles of the moon. Both are fine. Either one, you know, there is no problem. One year of life is good. One hundred years of life is good. If you continue your practice, you will attain.

[30:38]

this state, sun-faced Buddha, moon-faced Buddha. So I think much like the lectures in the lecture I gave called Mind Weeds, Suzuki Roshi is encouraging us to see difficulties as the foundation of true practice, and that to practice without effort is not true practice. So we have to stretch out our arms and our legs as far as they will go, and we must be true. to our own way until at last we come to the point where we see that it's necessary to forget all about ourself. This is the big leap. I often say to some of the students after they've been around for a while, I don't say it in the beginning because they really need to focus on themselves and their pain and what's going on and all of the things that they need to talk about. And I'm very patient and I listen to many, many things, many stories, and I think they're very dear. And at some point, when I know them well, and I've been listening to the stories for quite a while, I may say to them, you're going to have to get over yourself.

[31:44]

That's the next thing you're going to need to do. Because our vow as Buddhists is to live for the benefit of others. And it'll be such a relief when you make that shift from yourself to others. How are you doing? Not how am I doing. And yet... Until we get to that point in our practice, it would be a big mistake to think that whatever we do is Zen and that it doesn't matter if we practice or not. Making our best effort with our whole body and mind in all of our endeavors is true practice. Is the awakened Buddha nature on the spot? Just to continue is our purpose. Just to continue. I like that. Just to continue is our purpose in life. Just to continue. Get up. Stand up. Go get some breakfast. Brush your teeth. Say hello to people. Just to continue is our purpose. There's no other purpose. There's no other goal outside of justice.

[32:46]

He finishes this talk saying, form is form, and you are you, and true emptiness will be realized in our practice. So I wanted to say a few things about Uman, whose koan is in this talk. So Chinese Zen Master Uman, his Japanese name, he's Chinese, so his name, Chinese name is Uman, and his Japanese name is Yunmen. And he lived from 862 until, oh, I have 864. He was two years old when he died, apparently. No, that can't be right. Anyway, he lived a while, but not two years. He was a very, a major figure in the history of Zen, in what's called the Golden Age of Zen, the Tang Dynasty. So the school that he founded lasted for over 300 years. So he was a very big figure in Zen history. And as a result of his talks and those talks being compiled, all of the various examples of Uman's teaching were gathered together in a collection of koans called the Blue Cliff Record.

[33:53]

Very famous collection of koans. I hope you take a look at that. They're interesting. And hard to understand. But, you know, it's worth the effort for sure. So there are a lot of stories about Uman, including that his effort to enter into a Zen temple when he was a young monk, a novitiate. He was seeking the teaching. And so he went to a famous Zen teacher and tried to go to the monastery gate. And he stood there at the gate. And the teacher said to him, speak, speak. And Uman... First he couldn't say a thing, and then finally he opened his mouth to say something, and the teacher shut the gate on his leg and broke his leg. So Uman's famous for that, having his leg broken on his arrival at his Zen temple. These guys are pretty tough. And then after attaining enlightenment and practicing as a monastic for the balance of his life, at the age of 86, oh, I guess he did a little while, at the age of 86, he said to his monks, coming and going is continuous.

[34:55]

I must be on my way. And then he sat in full lotus position and died. Coming and going is continuous. I must be on my way. After that, Uman Zanej was absorbed by the Linji or Rinzai school of Zen, which makes some sense given that he was renowned for very forceful and direct teaching, like that broken leg. That was kind of a... feeling of that kind of forceful way of relating to students, which is often expressed, as we said before, and also I understand it's not the modern way of teaching in this school, but there are stories. And the stories often include shouts and hits with the staff, as well as for having incredibly good skills as a teacher. So Omama was... all the way around a really fine teacher. He had many enlightened students. That's always a sign of their success. There were lots and lots of awakened students in Uman's lineage.

[35:58]

He was especially well-known for these apparently meaningless short single-word answers, such as the Chinese word guan. He would say guan. That would be his answer, whatever you asked him. And the word guan means barrier. barrier. So they'd ask him something and he'd go on. It's kind of like the whisk in the face that we talked about earlier. Shi To was awakened with a whisk in the face. He's just talking on and on and the teacher went like that. So those barriers became the basis for the teaching stories handed down about Umwong. He did not like to have his students write down what he said. In fact, he was very forceful about it, and he would chase them out of the hall if he found them writing. So two of his monks had robes made out of paper, and they would secretly be writing things that he'd say, and then later on they'd copy them out. And thank goodness they did, because that's what became the Blue Cliff Record, was these paper robes that these monks did.

[37:04]

It's a cute part of the story. So these short teaching stories were to evolve into the koan tradition, which is most characteristic of the Rinzai school. So there are 18 koans in the Blue Cliff Record that involve uman, things he'd said. There are eight koans in the Book of Serenity, which is more of the Soto Zen collection. And there are five koans involving uman in the Gateless Gate, another collection of koans. So here's some examples. In the Blue Cliff Record, case number 77, a monk asked Uman, or Uman, what is the teaching that transcends the Buddha and patriarchs? Uman said, a sesame bun, a sesame bun, like a donut, jelly donut, a sesame bun. And another, here's a case from the Book of Serenity, case 99, a monk asked Uman, what is every atom samadhi?

[38:05]

What is every atom samadhi? All-inclusive samadhi. Uman said, rice in the bowl, water in the bucket. Rice in the bowl, water in the bucket. And then another example from the gateless gate, case number 21. A monk asked human, what is Buddha? This is a famous one, because you'll see. Uman said, a dried shit stick. You know, that's what the monks used to use, kind of like using... newspaper or corncops or whatever people use when they go to the toilet. So what is Buddha? A dried shit stick. They were having a lot of fun back then. And then another one from, oops, that's my notes here. Yeah, there. And among his most famous koans is this one. Uman addressed the assembly and said, I am not asking you about the days before the 15th of the month.

[39:07]

But what about after the 15th of the month? Come and give me a word about those days. So he's challenging his monks to answer. I'm not asking about the days before the 15th of the month, but what about after the 15th of the month? Come and give me a word about those days. And then no one answered, so he said, every day is a good day. I hope that's true for all of you that every day is a good day and I would very much enjoy hearing anything you'd like to say or offer and welcome welcome anything at all anything that comes to mind Thank you very much for your wonderful talk.

[40:12]

You're welcome. It comes to mind first. Oh, hi you. How are you? I'm okay. Good enough? Yeah, good enough. Great, great. Nice to see you. It's great to see you. It's great to see everybody. Yeah, it is, isn't it? Marianne. Hi, Fu. Hi, Sangha. Good to see you, everybody. I was wondering, Fu, as you practice going to the Zendo at 7.30, are you finding any of your Mennonite friends joining you? Quakers. Quakers, rather, yeah. Quakers. Well, here's my confession.

[41:14]

I haven't been yet. Oh, okay. Okay. But I'll let you know once I go. I watch them parading out in the morning because I've been kind of schlepping boxes and unpacking. So I've given myself some time off. And I will find out. But, you know, we have three different sits. There's a sit. The 7.30 is kind of the Zen one. And then there's a one, I think, at 9.30 that's the kind of a passana one. And then there's one in the afternoon that I think may be the quicker sit. So the community is really interesting because I've sat with a number of people at meals, which is really the place where it's happening, is in the dining room. And very interesting folks. And... they'll usually introduce themselves with their brand of religion. Oh, well, I'm from the Vipassana. It's like, where are we now? So I find it wonderful that we all have already secularized ourselves into different subgroups.

[42:17]

I keep hoping we'll just get down to the fact we're all Buddhists, as are the Quakers, and we're all Quakers. We're all really in love with spiritual life and being kind. Dalai Lama said, our religion is kindness. And I think that applies to all of us here. So. Yes. And it's interesting, too, because I've been reading Wisdom is Bliss, you know, Robert Sermon's text. Yes. He calls the four noble truths, the four fun facts. Oh, that's. Good, that's good. He says, you know, noble in the English language doesn't have the meaning that it did, you know, in Sanskrit. And so he calls them four fun facts. Anyway, he's so funny. Have you ever seen him lecture? Yes. He is the funniest guy. I know. But he often brings up that point that the Buddha really wanted people to... Dalai Lama always talks about, you know, it's that...

[43:19]

conversion of to kindness and not and to as you were saying you know not for myself but for others the bodhisattva and it isn't that i'm a buddhist i'm a catholic i'm a humanist you know um and and how that's something he keeps going back to that robert you know yeah yeah No, I was just saying that he says, well, you know, I will claim I'm a Buddhist, but the Dalai Lama is always correcting me. Absolutely. That's so good. You know, Suzuki Roshi was asked, I think I may have said this here, Suzuki Roshi was asked what Zen masters do when they get together. And he said, we laugh a lot. Yeah. And I think that's my experience of them, too. They're very funny, you know. They're really full of joy. Right. And they feel the pain and the suffering, but they also have this way of just bursting out with humor. Great.

[44:19]

Thank you, and it's lovely to see you in your new setting. Thank you. Blessings on everything. Thank you very much. Hi, Lisa. Far, far away. Far, far away. Yes. Well, slightly closer, maybe miles. So thank you, Fu. Thank you for keeping this up. You're welcome. Thank you. It's my joy. And ours. So, you know, I think I probably told you, I mean, when I finally get brave and get those tattoos, you know, it's going to say every day is a good day. And on the other, it's going to be, just this is it. You could leave me, but you know. So just, yeah, just this is it. Or not just this, every day is a good day. It's sort of my favorite koan.

[45:20]

And, you know, thinking about it. So I've read interpretations of, you know, what is he asking about? the 15 days before, what are the 15 days before and what are the 15 days after? And one of the interpretations, and I cannot tell you where it came from, it was that the 15 days before were, you know, before realization, before enlightenment. Right. And then the 15 days after are after enlightenment. I mean, is he saying that it doesn't matter? That everything is Zen? Every day is a good day? Does that make sense, that he would say it doesn't matter? At some level, it goes to the... To me, it goes to the... You're already enlightened. You just need to practice. Yeah, that works for me.

[46:26]

And also, if you see that... it doesn't matter is as a dualistic proposition to it matters. Right. Right away. You're going to have to put the seesaw into place. It doesn't matter. Oh, really? Why do you say so? You know, I think it's like, are you present? Are you here? Are you watching what's happening? Are you, are you in it? You know, are you really, are you engaging with it in both of those questions? Yeah. It matters. It doesn't matter. Yeah, we'll find out. You know, how is it for you? How about you? That's another good call. How about you? And that's one, you know, when my teacher do that to me, I'd be like, oh, my God. You know, I don't know. But little by little, I begin to listen to myself. What is it for me? How is it for me? And answers do come. You know, they're not good or bad. They're just...

[47:26]

how it comes, how it shows up inside of ourselves. So you've always got stuff bubbling up, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's great. You know, it's a matter of trusting it rather than taking the academic approach and going to look for yet another commentary. Uh-huh, uh-huh, or refuting it. Well, you have to refute it. Yeah, refute it, support it. Refute it. Come on, the Pali Canon says that the Buddha, you have to not trust what he tells you, but to feel it for yourself. Right. That's right. That's right. And if you feel it's good, if you taste the taste of liberation, that's the only one that matters. Yeah. Yeah. And you share that. You share that inspiration with others. And the poop is in the pudding, as my grandma said. Yeah. How does it taste? How does it taste? How is your practice for you?

[48:27]

How is it? Or how is it to be with people? Can you trust them or not? You've got to kind of make careful with that. The Sangu Marchana Sutra says, don't trust anything. Check it out. Yeah. You know? See if the chair is going to hold your weight. Don't just plop down. Okay. Yeah. So the question then is, how is it for you? How does it feel? to you, you come up with a provisional answer. Let's be careful. And yet, how do you know you're not fooling yourself? No way to know. You know, I mean, what other thing that comes to mind along with no way to know is you ask somebody else. Right, okay. It's like that solipsism. You don't want to just point here. It's sort of like, go to the teacher.

[49:29]

See what they think, you know? I once went to all the teachers. It was kind of a fun thing to do. I went to Norman and Paul and Reb and Linda, and I said, are you enlightened? That's a trick question, isn't it? It was, and they all answered it differently. And it was wonderful. I really enjoyed how they responded. So, you know, it's about relationships. Zen is not a personal practice. It's communal practice. So we get to ask each other, you know, are you enlightened? And we get to be very grateful for the Sangha. Indeed. I just wanted to say that when I think nothing matters, just the flip side always comes up. Everything matters.

[50:30]

And how does that juxtaposition fit in to where we are? It seems to me that if nothing matters, then it's a slippery slope to nihilism. Exactly. And if everything matters, it seems like everything does matter, but it also doesn't. Well, I think that's the balance. That's the balance. That otherwise you become strident. You know, people are really strident when they think something matters. That's the most important thing. You know, they punch you in the nose. And we feel that. It's like, well, let's talk about it. Let's look at it. What does matter? What does it mean that it matters? And to who? And how? Let's look at it together rather than you tell me what matters. We don't want to fight. I think that's our biggest crime as a species is our fighting.

[51:33]

So how do we understand that that matters a lot? Not killing. Those are precepts. Yeah. We're invited to think about what really matters. How we treat each other seems to matter a lot. Yeah. I'm going to go on gallery. Can I go on gallery? How do I go on gallery? It doesn't. Oh, there we go. Great. I can see everybody much better. Yeah. All right. Hello, people. Lovely. Oh. All favorites. Pick one. No, never. Never. You all well?

[52:36]

Everyone okay? Good enough? Hi, Senko. Another far, far away. Hi, Phu. Hi, thank you. Oh, yeah, I mean, just listening to you talking about this non-thinking, thinking versus not thinking and non-thinking, and this welcome, welcome. You know, I'm trying to just relate it to my practice in the past, maybe just a few days. I'm trying to make up something, like invent. Yeah. It's based on the inspiration from you. And also there's a talk Jury also gave on the weeds, you know, how we see welcome. That's only the first step. He's saying, like, because there's a question after his talk, like, do you mean we just passively, you know, accept? Or like, that's the question to him. He said, you know, welcome is the first step. And then you can decide to cut the weeds, basically. So he's trying to, you know, I thought about that and I thought about what you said today.

[53:40]

And I thought about my own reacting every day to difficult situations, right? Can I call this term like non-reacting? It's like, I don't totally react out, but I also don't try to reject it. You know, like the thinking versus non-thinking. Because to me, like everyday situation is pretty... It's one thing. It's the main thing of my practice. Like kids stuff and other difficult issues. So I'm trying to like observe myself. Sometimes, most of the time I forget. Sometimes if I say, okay, welcome. Like this situation is like biting a bullet. It's very hard to say though. Usually I just forget about saying welcome. I just react on the spot. Sometimes if I say, okay, I'm going to welcome this situation. It feels really viscerally painful. Somehow, It's different. Like the anger or the reaction actually goes down a little bit when I remember to say the word welcome.

[54:42]

And then I decide what I do. You know, I can either discipline or kind of respond firmly. I still do that. But it's also a little bit different. So I think that kind of links to what you say about this non-thinking in some way. Yeah. No, I think just bringing... whatever it is into your consciousness, welcoming actually is welcoming your own thoughts, welcoming your own feelings. It's like, instead of like, it's all about you. It's what you just did and that's what's happening. You know, that's not welcome. It's asserting or that's like shooting stuff out at the world, you know, but welcome is bringing it this way. Yeah. What is it that thus comes? Being curious. I don't know what this is. You know, looks like my son. It looks like he's doing something I don't like, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And I love my son, and I don't like the behavior. Those two things go together really well. I love the child, and you don't have to like the behavior.

[55:43]

That's not, you know, that's not like we have to pick one or the other. So we can welcome what we need to do as parents, welcome the love we have for our children. Yeah. Yeah, and welcome what's happening now when the two boys are fighting. I'm like, I'm welcoming them fighting. But it sounds really funny, so I laugh a little bit. But then it's just like the anger comes down. And I say, okay, I'm welcoming them fighting. But then I still disappoint them. But it's different from sometimes I just go, stop! Well, yes, you do. You all do that. Yeah, I do that too. But with this welcoming thing, somehow secretly sneaking, it's a little bit different. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to have to practice that with people tailgating. I have never yet. Welcome, tailgating me. Welcome, Peter Belt. I get so angry. I just immediately, I'm just furious. I know. If I can't get over, I have no way to do it.

[56:45]

I just like, I start fuming and I just think, come on, what happened to your Zen practice? What happened here? Anyway, that's where my, that's my Achilles heel is tailgaters. So I'm sorry if any of you do that. Just don't get behind me. Thank you. Thanks. You're welcome. Thank you. Hi, Drew. Hi. I'm driving. Oh, that's Drew. You have two Drews. Oh, hi, Drew. Well, Drew, who's not driving first, and then Drew's driving, you'll be up next. How's that? We want you to be safe, and don't you tailgate. Drew. Drew or Drew? It's Drew of the Vermont Insight Minute. I'm right with you on the tailgating thing. Boy. I don't know what it is about that. I've looked at it and looked at it and I can't figure it out.

[57:48]

So I can't quite parse not thinking and non-thinking. Maybe it's just a language thing because it means the same thing. That substance is not lethal. That substance is non-lethal. I can't parse a difference out between that. And I'm just wondering if you know the actual word, is there a different translation for non? Oh, that's a good question. And I'll look that up because it is in English. Any of you guys English majors know what the difference between not and non? Because I've had it always explained as inclusive of both sides. That it's not that and it's... Not that. It's non. Non is like holding both. That's how I've had it explained to me. And that's how I explain it. But it'd be interesting to know what the Chinese would be or how that teaching. So I'll look that up.

[58:51]

That's a very interesting question. Great. Thanks. Looks like you got a great place there. Oh, very. Yeah. Kind of. Yeah. It's a little embarrassing. How did this happen? I don't know. Thanks. Yeah, sure. Make a note about looking that up. Okay. All right. Okay, Drew, other Drew. Driver Drew. Hey, driver Drew. Driver Saison Drew. Saison. Saison, yes. I just wanted to, of course, you know, still fresh from the container of Sashim. And it was an amazing, powerful experience. And the only regret I have is that I haven't been able to go for the last couple of years. So it was really cool. Beautiful, beautiful experience. Great. A great reaffirmation of faith and commitment. And I treasured the fact that I got to see you.

[59:52]

And I look forward to coming up soon. Either to Giltzberger or to Green Dolch. We'll have to discuss. But thank you again for taking the time. It was so good to see you. It's been a long time. Yeah. They have books on rooms here. Well, maybe next time I'll come up there and we'll try them out, break them in. Good. Wonderful. I love it. You drive carefully now. Thank you, Fu. All right. You headed home? Yeah. I'm just heading to San Francisco right now and then tomorrow home. Okay. All right. Yeah. Take care. Thank you. Saison. I love it that you guys, a lot of you are using your Dharma names. It's really sweet. We can do that together here. You don't have to tell other people if you don't want to, but it's really sweet to have all these little Dharma names showing up on the screen. I use my everywhere. It's even on my cookbook.

[60:54]

Oh yeah. I know that. Yeah. Here's a chef. May I tell them who you are? What you do? Yeah, sure. Yeah. Any of you remember Cafe Gratitude or the, it's a vegan. Vegan restaurant. Well, Drew's the head chef. So he's the one who invents all these wonderful vegan recipes. And he did a recipe book. What's the name of your recipe book? It's called Love is Served. Love is Served. And it's amazing. So if you're interested in plant medicine as food, he's a great source of that. And Drew's a master chef. So very lucky. Yeah, if you're in LA, come by and hit me up. Say hi. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or Madre. What's the other one? The high-end one? Gracias Madre. [...] That's the other one. So in LA, go ask for Drew. I mean, for Saison. Yes. Saison Drew. Thank you. Okay. Hi, Kosan. Hi, everyone.

[61:58]

Hello, Fu. I just wanted to say really quickly, I... I leave my Dharma name by default on my Zoom thing, and I get into a lot of really interesting conversations just by having that there. And people ask me about it, and I get to talk about Dharma a little bit for a couple seconds, and it's kind of fun. It's a fun way to sort of introduce that part of my life into a broader community, but yeah. Nice. And I did have one question. Is there a significant difference between the first name and the second name? I don't know about significant, but there is some understanding that the first one is somewhat how you're seen now, like you manifest. So Furiu is my first name. It's like water and wind. It's kind of like I'm windy, windy and watery manifestation. My second name. is wayseeking heart.

[63:00]

So that's my aspiration as a Dharma student. That's how my teacher saw me. My aspirational name is the second name. I don't necessarily do that because sometimes they work better the other way around. They sound better if you do it with that particular, if you get too stiff about doing it that way. That's one of the traditional ways of thinking of the names. Interesting. I ask because I love my second name too. And I feel like, as I said, intentions in my life, that's a nice intention to hold. And so I'm thinking about actually using that as my primary Dharma name as an aspirational kind of thing. Again, just in terms of the, because we're not Japanese monastics and we really don't know what we're doing. So... So usually the first name is the one you use when you're in training. And the second one, you can switch to the second one. I could switch to Doshin now because I'm in a teaching role, and that would be okay.

[64:06]

And some people do that. They switch to their second name. So Reb is Tenchan Zenki, so he's Zenki. It really would be more appropriate now that he's a teacher. So there is that tradition. But, you know, it's not hard and fast as far as I know, and certainly not. Not in this environment. I haven't trained in Japan. I don't really know how to hold those things. Right. Well, I wouldn't be allowed to learn, and you probably would be severely restricted from learning if you were in Japan. So I guess there's a whole new set of things. So I guess we're on our own out here, aren't we? Yeah. I'm good about that. But we check home. Mea-san is on her way to Japan tomorrow. She's going to all these special ceremonies they're having at Aheji and Sojiji. And for Kezon, whose book we read, Transmission of Life, they're having this big celebration for his, I don't know which anniversary.

[65:06]

Which one is it? 750 or something. I think it was a lot, a lot of years. So we'll hear back from her about how it was. Wonderful. Oh, wonderful. That would be lovely. That would be great, wouldn't it? Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Off we go. All right, everyone. Oh, yes. Helene. Kokyo. Oh, that's a good one. What does it mean? What's the translation of your name? Shining Mirror. Shiny Mirror. But I think it's more like a verb. Uh-huh. Not so much that I am a shining mirror, but that I shine my mirror. Ah, ah, nice. That's the way I take it. Okio, that's very nice. All right, all you shiny mirrors.

[66:10]

Take care, we'll see you soon. See you next week. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks everyone. Thank you.

[66:22]

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