good morning everyone a warm welcome to you all whether or not you are here in the green god zendo or the online zendo it's a it's an honor to be with all of you is the sound okay no okay so for those of you who may not know me my name is tenzin david zimmerman and i um a resident of san francisco zen center i live currently at city center beginner's mind temple and i also serve as the central abbot for san francisco zen center and um you know i don't get to get over here very often so it's always a treat to come visit and i uh even less frequently give a dharma talk so again thank you for welcoming here into the heart body and mind of the green dragon And thank you to the Tanto for the invitation. We cheer you. Always good to see you, Kokyo.

[01:21]

So if you attended the Dharma Talk that I gave yesterday at City Center, whether you were there in person or online, I have a confession to make. I'm going to basically give the same talk, the same topic. And, you know, I would have wished that I had time and energy to offer something else, but I'll be honest, it's been a tough couple weeks, particularly at City Center. We had a long-term resident who died. And so navigating this beloved member's death and what it is to hold a community in a time of mourning and transition and... and all the wider the family and all the other wider concerns it's it's taken a lot of energy and attention so i figured i'm going to try to keep things simple and direct so this is my offering today i hope it will be sufficient so i'd like to begin my talk by sharing with you a short zen story or koan

[02:26]

entailing the interaction between two renowned and beloved 8th and 9th century Chan or Zen masters. So this is Nanchuan Huryan in Japanese. You might know him as Nansen Fugan. And then his pupil, Jaojo Sungshen, who in Japanese is known as Joshu Jushen. And each of these men appear quite frequently in the various koan collections. And this following case is number six from a collection of koans titled The Recorded Sayings of Zen Master Joshu. So I'm going to, in this case, use the Japanese names. So Jiaojou will be the name of the character rather than Joshu. Here it is. Once, when Jiaojou was drawing water from a well, he saw his teacher, Nanchuan, passing by. Then, hanging on to a pillar, he extended his legs down into the well and shouted, Save me!

[03:33]

Save me! Nanchuan held up a ladder that was nearby and, counting the rungs of the ladder, cried out, One, two, three, four, five. Master Jajo immediately got up and gave his thanks to Nan Chuan, saying, just now, thanks to you, I was saved. So perhaps you've had moments in your life when you found yourself in a somewhat precarious situation, dangling over a well of sorts, barely holding on, and seemingly about to fall at any moment. into a dark hole of some kind, and wondering whether, if you called out, someone will notice and come save you. And maybe sometimes, like Zhao Zhou in the Quran, you're in such a predicament due to your own foolish actions.

[04:38]

Anyone here ever done that? No? Good, I wasn't the only one. Or worse, you're simply playing at crying wolf, to see if anyone actually cares enough to come to your aid. Of course, it's also very possible that you are genuinely in need of a rescue from a difficult situation, even a perilous one, one that's due to causes and conditions beyond your control. Regardless of who or what's to blame, there often seems to be something potentially threatening our safety, our well-being, our happiness, or the safety and well-being and happiness of those we love. I would venture to say that at some fundamental level, one of the most prevailing desires or longings of human beings is to be saved. Of course, what exactly means to be saved largely depends on each person's particular worldview, their afflictions,

[05:46]

their experiences, their fears. The first time I recall feeling the strong wish for someone to come save me was when I was six years old and newly placed into a children's home along with my brother due to a difficult family situation. And during my first few weeks there, I would spend many times during the day sitting next to a window looking out at the long driveway. hoping that perhaps I would see my father's car pulling up, or hoping that anyone would come and save me, taking me back home once again. You might have had similar times in your life when the hope arose that someone or something would save you. And if that's not the case for you, I think it's... It's safe to say, most of all, that for most of us, what we would like to be saved from are the general banes or sufferings that come with human existence, including old age, sickness, and death, as well as pain, loss, blame, and failure.

[07:04]

In other words, what the Buddha identified as dukkha, dissatisfaction, dis-ease. I also think there's a common human desire to be saved from experiencing a loveless, lonely, or meaningless life. A life that somehow feels empty, unlived, or insignificant. But perhaps what we want to be saved from most of all is ourselves. I want to be saved from myself because I sense with some measure of chagrin, that it's me that's invariably the primary instigator of much of my suffering. And with each of these longings, there's a question of who or what can ultimately save you. For those of you that have spent any time at Zen centers, just like this one, you probably heard chanted...

[08:11]

Four seemingly self-contradictory lines known as the bodhisattva vows, which we will, in fact, at the end of this talk, be chanting. And they go like this. Beings are numberless. I vow to save them. Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to become it. Maybe upon hearing these four great vows for the first time, we might be struck by the impossibility of them, particularly the first line. Beings are nonetheless, and yet I vow to save them, meaning all of them, every single one of them. You might be thinking, uh-huh, really? And while I think that in most cases there's a natural desire to want to be of help to others when we see them suffering or a need in some form, even if we don't necessarily know about how to go about doing it, taking a vow to save everyone seems overwhelming, even a little bit insane.

[09:32]

Why would anyone make such a vow in which you're almost certain to fail? Nonetheless, if we're formally taking the Bodhisattva precepts as done in the Jukai ceremony, we've made a public commitment to make good on this promise. So we have to do something. However, if we don't have a sufficient understanding of the teachings of the Buddhadharma when we embark on the effort to save all beings, we risk developing a savior complex by becoming you know, egotistical rescuers, some kind of self-snug do-gooders, kind of blur responsibility, you know, by taking responsibility for another person in some other way that's inappropriate and maybe a resilience. And such rescuers frequently actually do more harm than good for others, and they end up just creating as many problems for themselves in the end.

[10:37]

So the question remains, How exactly do I go about saving all beings? In the koan, Zhao Zhao and Nanquan are obviously joking around, having a bit of fun. While drawing water from the well, Zhao Zhao sees his teacher, Nanquan, and decides to put on a little show. He pretends he's about to fall into the well and calls out to Nanquan to save him. And Nanquan is willing to play along. However, he doesn't respond with a superhero or saint-like salvation act. He's not like, don't worry, dear disciple, I've got you. Instead, he grabs a ladder that's close at hand. And rather than explaining it out towards Zhao Zhou to use, instead, dramatically, he holds it up and counts. One, two, three, four.

[11:40]

And with that, apparently Zhao Zhao is saved. And so he steps away from the edge of the well and then thanks his teacher for saving him. Now, one commentary on this coin notes that Nanchuan is not in any rush to save Zhao Zhao, not only because Zhao Zhao's call for help is obviously a playful use, but because from a Zen perspective, even where there is a real need for rescue, save from the bonds of karma, all one can do for the other, and for oneself, is to walk, step by step, one's own path. Nanshuan pretend saves Chaozhou, who in turn thanks his teacher for helping him realize he never really needed saving to begin with. So while this koan offers an example of some of the fun that two seasoned and devoted Buddhist practitioners can have playing in the fields of the Dharma, there is, of course, a deeper teaching to be found here, one involving what it might mean from a Buddhist perspective to attain or offer some form of salvation for ourselves and others.

[13:10]

majority of spiritual traditions have some concept of salvation, a version of a salvarific narrative that carries with it a particular potency for the practitioners of that faith. And for many religions, the concept of salvation entails winning, for example, the struggle against some form of evil in one's life, or eliminating some form of sin or impurity within ourselves. For others, it's a matter of receiving some reward, for example, eternal life, based on how we've lived or what we've accomplished or the degree to which we've heeded some universal law or showed devotion to a particular almighty deity. For example, according to the Christian Mennonite and Brethren traditions in which I was raised, the necessity of being absolved of original sin by accepting the eternal salvation offered by God's absolute love and through his son Jesus was a driving narrative.

[14:42]

And alas, such a narrative didn't resonate with me. The more I thought about it and checked in with my own internal compass, it didn't ring true to me. In my bones, I could feel there's something not right here. It's not my path. This is not how reality is for me. And so I had to find another way. However, Buddhism and Zen differ markedly from other religions on the point of the view of human salvation. I remember the first time I read what are said to be the last words of Shakyamuni Buddha as he was on his deathbed about to pass into Paranirvana. In the translation that I had, the Buddha counsels his disciples to work hard for their own salvation. He says, Behold, O monks, this is my last advice to you. All component things in the world are changeable.

[15:48]

They are not lasting. Work out your salvation with diligence. And I've since read other translations and commentaries that question the use of this word salvation. But the use of the word at the time when I first read it, Pete, my curiosity as someone who grew up in a Judean Christian culture, in order to understand the principle of salvation in Zen Buddhism, we must turn not to a transcendent power of a god, but to the basic question of the nature of reality, as well as our own identity. It's only through understanding our human identity and awakening to our self-nature, our true nature, our Buddha nature, that is inherently pure, boundless, and free from suffering, that we can ultimately find liberation.

[16:51]

And yet we are so often blinded to our true nature and fundamental goodness by ignorance, attachment, and delusion, what are otherwise known as the three poisons. It's these obscurations of our naturally awake mind They're the basis for all the myriad forms of harm and suffering we see in the world perpetuated by humans. Because we are commonly in bondage to and driven by our egoic, karmic consciousness, we are prone to engage in thinking and actions that are unwholesome, unbeneficial. Accordingly, then, salvation in Buddhism, is liberation from the bondage of our egoic mind, if you will, and our karma through the transformation of our consciousness and our awakening to our true nature, again, our Buddha nature.

[18:03]

It's the awareness that we are more than we appear, that we all possess the potential to express wisdom and compassion. rather than afflicting harm on ourselves and others. While egoic consciousness isn't abolished in this transformation, its condition, its nature is made clear, and therefore it has less authority in our lives. It's no longer in the driver's seat. By becoming aware of the source of our actions, we gain power to choose more fruitful, and beneficial actions. Now to mention another important aspect here. According to Zen and the Mahayana tradition, our fate as human beings is inextricably tied to the fate of all beings. Your fate, every one of you, is tied to each and every one in this room and to everyone outside this room and throughout the whole world.

[19:12]

They're linked together. profoundly intimately. So, in other words, our fate is tied up with the fate of all being. Zen teaches that we are dependently co-arisen with everything else in the universe. And as such, our very being is a reflection of all our relationships. Not only with other humans, past, present, and future, but also with all of nature. Plants, animals, mountains, the rivers, as well as the sun, the moon, the stars. We only exist as we do in relation to everything else. Alas, we all too often don't recognize the truth of our interdependency. Instead, we labor under the delusion

[20:15]

that we have an inherent, enduring, independent self-nature. In reality, that sense of a separate self is just a fabrication. It's just something that we dreamed up and then we added it to our experience. Awakening entails recognizing our self-delusion, recognizing that in a dream, that we're acting out a fabrication of some sort, and seeing then in what way we are not separate from the rest of the universe. And when we have an understanding of our profound intimacy and interdependence, it naturally leads us to want to act in such a way that we want to help others to be free of suffering, just as we want to be free of suffering. It's this understanding that gives rise to the bodhisattva, a being who is on the path towards liberation, towards nirvana, and understands that ultimately their liberation, their salvation, if you will, is bound up with the salvation of all beings.

[21:37]

However, while a bodhisattva wants to support all beings in a direction away from suffering or liberation, greater happiness and wisdom, they must be careful not to have an idea about what kind of assistance another being might need in their own path of liberation. Rather than having an attitude of, I know what's best for you, a bodhisattva remains open to responding to providing whatever is actually needed in the moment. Even if it's not something as grand as complete liberation. For example, while offering our Dharma teaching might be a benefit, sometimes that's what's really needed to alleviate suffering is something as simple and straightforward as a smile, a kind word, a receptive ear, or maybe something more practical like food or shelter or just a band-aid.

[22:46]

And even if someone is so entrenched in their own suffering, totally identified with it to the degree that they refuse to let it go, it's my suffering, it's mine, it's precious, right? It's who I am. Then, in those instances, perhaps all a bodhisattva can do is stand by as a witnessing, compassionate companion. While the person... works through whatever it is they need to work through on their own. We can't fix others. We can't do it for them. We never know what others truly need or where their journey to liberation needs to take them or how it's going to unfold. Now, while bodhisattvas, they have many vital and inspirational virtues that we could explore together, I'm just going to briefly touch upon one of them right now, which is the virtue of identity action, Japanese rikyo.

[23:53]

As Erudogan, the founder of our school of Zen, describes it in his classical Bodhisatta Shishobo, which can translate as the four all-embracing methods of a bodhisattva, he says, identity action means non-difference. It is non-difference from self, non-difference from others. When we know identity action, self and others are one. The translators Nishijima and Krauss have offered a colloquial expression to describing identity action. It's like all of us being in the same boat together. In other words, liberation is impossible. for an individual in isolation. It needs to be understood as a collective endeavor. We're all in the same boat, rowing together to the shore of liberation.

[24:57]

Even if we personally attain some great spiritual awakening or insight, good for you, our spiritual development is incomplete if we turn our backs on others. suffering beings. In fact, I would say it's pointless. Dogen also says in the same classical that foolish people think that if they help others first, their own benefit will be lost. But this is not so. Beneficial action is an act of oneness, benefiting self and others together. So then according to Dogen, you could say, such action is in fact enlightened activity. Beneficial action, helpful action is, in other words, the whole of the Dharma. However, as we endeavor to enact the Bodhisattva vows in service of saving all beings, what is particularly emphasized in Zen training,

[26:08]

is the need to cultivate an understanding of emptiness, shunyata. With a correct understanding of emptiness, we then have the power, we then have the proper perspective with which to approach our wish to be of service to others. And this is important because we might otherwise take up the bodhisattva vow to save all beings from a place of ego. falling into the trap of becoming godlike saviors or a rescuer, right? How to free those other poor unfortunate souls, right? Though through my own awesome and heroic enlightened activity, right? See me, see how compassionate I am, see what a great bodhisattva I am, right? Of course, we want to be compassionate and beneficial, but if we're attached to ideas about who it is we're trying to help, and what we think they need, and what's going to ultimately be beneficial for them, then the whole endeavor just becomes another exercise in self-conscious aggrandizement.

[27:21]

But when grounded in the inside of emptiness and interbeing, then compassion for serving beings arises spontaneously, without thought. without preconception. It's like, and you've heard this koan, a hand reaching back in the night for a pillow. Without thought, just wanting, just naturally to offer comfort and ease. Again, it's an unselfconscious movement done from a profound sense of interconnectedness. There were seminal texts in the Mahayana Zen tradition that are particularly helpful in cultivating an understanding of emptiness, vow in service of the Bodhisattva vows, including that of saving all beings. The first is, of course, the Heart of Great Perfect Wisdom Sutra. So in the Heart Sutra, we are presented with a path of liberation that sees the nature of all phenomenon as empty of own being.

[28:29]

Now, I'm not going to say more about the Heart Sutra today, other than to note that we could describe the focus of the Heart Sutra as one of personal emancipation. The other text that offers us a supportive understanding of emptiness is the Diamond Sutra. In the Diamond Sutra, while sharing the same orientation as the Heart Sutra to emptiness as being the true nature of reality, we see that the central theme is one of universal, emancipation, not just personal. So in the Diamond Sutra, Sabuti, who's a senior disciple of the Buddha, approaches the Buddha and asks him what a person on the path like himself should do to further their understanding of the Dharma. And so the Buddha replies saying, Sabuti, those who would now set forth on the Bodhisattva path should give rise to this thought.

[29:31]

However many beings there are, and I'm shortening this, however many beings there are in whatever realms they might exist, in the realm of complete nirvana, I should liberate them all. Again, here's this impossible vow to save all beings. Every one of them, every speck, every organism, everything is my focus. The Buddha goes on to say, And though I thus liberate countless beings, not a single being is liberated. And why not? Sabuti, a bodhisattva who creates a perception of a being, cannot be called a bodhisattva. And why not? Sabuti, no one can be called a bodhisattva who creates a perception of the self. who creates a perception of a being, a life, or a soul.

[30:33]

So here the Buddha shines the light of prajna, the wisdom that sees the emptiness of all beings and phenomena, onto the great thought of liberating all sentient beings itself. Even the thought, the concept that I can save other beings must be seen through, must be seen as empty. Now, of course, we have to be careful here. Otherwise, we might mistakenly think that the Buddha is suggesting in the Diamond Sutra that beings don't exist. When he says that a Bodhisattva shouldn't create the perception of being, then therefore that we shouldn't have to worry about their welfare. There's often a common misunderstanding around the Buddhist teachings of emptiness that because all things and all beings are empty of own being, that they don't really exist. And because they don't really exist, we don't need to make a sincere, tangible effort to save them from suffering.

[31:39]

But the teachings of emptiness aren't saying beings, oh, sorry, we have this understanding that the teachings of emptiness aren't saying beings don't exist, nor that they don't need to make any effort to aid them, because whatever suffering their experience is, is simply a matter of their own delusion. But what the Buddha is saying in the Diamond Sutra is that beings, all phenomena, including ourselves, don't really exist the way that we perceive them, the way that we think they exist. Beings obviously and definitely exist. I'm here. Hello. This is meeting. And I know you're there. We all exist. But we... project something extra onto existence, onto other beings, right? A whole bunch of stories and ideas that are not necessary, right?

[32:44]

And these stories and the projections, all they do is restrict the manifestation of wisdom and compassion. They restrict our natural care that we might feel for others. And subsequently, It causes suffering. What we're to understand then, and as the hearts which are underlines for us, is that despite the truth of emptiness, bodhisattvas engender in themselves a great compassion. So all this is to say that while we must all pass through the stage in our Zen training where there are no beings to save, if we remain stuck in that emptiness enjoying some form of solitary bliss right then the profound desire to save all beings will never truly arise so it's in this way that prajna the wisdom of emptiness that we find in the heart sutra and the diamond sutra serves as an antidote to egotism as well as to the trap of becoming a rescuer

[33:52]

Okay, so returning once again to our koan with Zhao Zhou and Nanquan before closing. Putting himself seemingly and purposely at risk of falling into the well, Zhao Zhou calls out to his teacher, save me, save me. Now interesting, there's another translation of this koan which actually has him calling out, save us both, save us both. And then once saved, thanking his teacher for saving them both. It's important to note that Zhao Zhou and Nanjuan created their situation together. And they got out of it together. Like all reality, theirs is a dependently co-arisen event. So given this, we might ask the question, who is saving who? Now, it's not that Nanjuan doesn't want to help Zhajo when he grabs the ladder and starts counting rather than actually running to and grabbing on to his student.

[35:07]

As a committed bodhisattva, he really does want to help. And he's naturally and spontaneously responding. He didn't hesitate at all. Right? And his response is one step, one run, one breath at a time. One. Two. Three. Four. But ultimately, he can't save Zhaozhou from being Zhaozhou. Zhaozhou is Zhaozhou and Nanquan is Nanquan. Each of them is fully engaged in acting out their parts. Each of them have the respective karma for which they have to take responsibility. Neither can save the other from being themselves, nor from having to bear the realities and consequences of their particular Dharma positions and the karma that they've accumulated by the choices they've made in their life up until this point.

[36:12]

And I often have this image of each of us is a nexus of the universe, coming together all time and space, coming together in this really moment, and we are one point of that coming together we are essential we hold the whole universe together by the our dharma position without us the universe would not exist the way that it exists so we are essential for this fabric but we have to own our dharma position we have to own the way that we have lived out this expression of the universe here and now All the same, the teaching of dependent origination reminds us that relations between human beings are a complicated matter of each person creating and being created by their engagement with others and the world. Therefore, by acting for oneself, one involves the other. By acting upon the other, one finds oneself involved.

[37:16]

So Zhaozhou is quickly saved, and then he says to his teacher, thank you, Venerable, for saving us both. Now in his commentary on this koan, Chan Master Zhutong Zhurju, I may have that wrong, but says on Nang Chuan's behalf, Venerable Bank, already no need. In other words, there is no need to thank him because I didn't save anybody. And commenting on this case, Pacquen says, I feel ashamed, I feel ashamed. All the same, Zhao Zhou offers his gratitude on behalf of all of our efforts to save both ourselves and each other from the dark well of ignorance and dualistic perception. So perhaps we can say something like this. I can't save you, much less all beings. And you, can't save me. Why?

[38:19]

Because I, the I, the I of the delusory separate self, can't save a you that's a fabricated separate self. The moment we start talking about you and I, we fall into a well of dualism and conceptualizations with a me over here trying to save a you over there. As such, it's just an egoic endeavor which will leave everyone further endangered. We can't save other beings because fundamentally there are no other beings. There is only just this one life. And so we make our best effort to bring as much care and attention and love to this life as we can and as is within our means. We take care of this one life in all of its multiplicity and diversity, all of its ugliness and heartache, its profound tenderness and beauty.

[39:27]

But ultimately, the only way this one can truly help is by doing away with the notion of you and I to begin with, to go beyond our dualistic perceptions of the world. When we can do this, then our endeavor becomes Buddha saving Buddha, the world saving the world, the universe saving the universe. Furthermore, the truth is that we are already saved. We are already saved because we are already and have always been free. Our Buddha nature is already pure, free, and boundless. So there is nothing that otherwise binds us except for our own minds and the karmic obscurations and entanglements they create for us.

[40:35]

This is the essential teaching of the Buddha's Four Noble Truth. Yes, there is suffering. But there is also an end to suffering. when we realize that suffering is a matter of the way that we perceive, think about, and relate to reality, to each other and to ourselves. And the path Buddha recommended for how we might recognize and actualize this truth is the Eightfold Path and the Precepts. So in closing, I'll offer you a little secret. If we try to act like a Bodhisattva, even when we don't feel like one. It goes a long way toward challenging our attachment to our sense of a self, our separate self, while also at the same time teaching us about the truth of our interbeing. Over time, we sense that we might actually be going in the correct direction, following a beneficial path, because we begin to recognize that each and every one of us

[41:44]

is making our best effort to understand and live from our true nature. The wish to be of assistance to others to engage in beneficial action and help others then just arises spontaneously. And we simply jump into action to assist others when they need assistance, not knowing whether our actions will be of true benefit or not, or what it might actually require of us. One, two, three, four, five. Step by step, we walk the path of liberation, of salvation, together. Thank you very much for your kind attention and patience and presence. Looks like we have a little bit of time now. If there's something that you would like to bring forward, share. question, reflections, something about maybe your own path, liberation, salvation.

[42:53]

How's it going? You're going to make me hang off the side of this platform. Is that what it is? I already saved you, don't worry. I see a hand. Hold on a second, the mic is... As a novice meditator, I'm curious if the practice of meditation and empty in one's mind when one meditates, I have chronic monkey mind, but does that help with the identity action, the nothingness?

[44:13]

How does one get to feeling nothingness, particularly when one has a monkey mind? Right, right. Thank you for your question. So I myself find very much so that when I can be in meditation and allow the kind of yada, yada, yada that's going on in my head, the ticker tape of narrative about what's happening and all the stories that I have going, when I can quiet that down, allow that to settle, right? I have a greater sense of, number one, clearly seeing what's actually happening because I'm no longer looking through the stories that I have going through my mind. I actually get to see what's in front of me, what's actually happening here, what are some of the causes and conditions that are coming up and expressing themselves in my thoughts, feelings, body sensations. And so when I get that clarity, part of that clarity for me also includes the fact that I begin to feel in my own being a sense of deeper connectedness to others.

[45:16]

So I actually begin to, I can sense other people's their life force. I see them rather than the projections that I may have about them, all these kind of stories, all these imputations. And then I actually get to relate to who they really are rather than my stories about them. And when I'm able to do that, I actually find that my relationships just feel more connected, more caring, more loving. And And I naturally want to support the other person. And because they actually feel seen more by me, and I can offer that, actually feel more connected to me. And then we're able to actually be more honest with each other and actually say what it is we need in the moment in some way. So I have found over the years, just being able to just, you know, we always want to do something, right? And meditation is a non-doing. It's just sit there.

[46:17]

Let the universe breathe you. Let the universe do you. You don't have to do anything. Let that thing drop, right? In that stillness, we discover really what we essentially are. You've probably heard this metaphor before. Like, you know, put a glass of water that has mud in it, settle it down. And over time, all that silt, all those thoughts, those stories, the monkey mind just quiet down on their own accord. So we have to stop trying to grab onto thoughts. I sometimes think of, I like to use the metaphor of a snow person. You build a snowman, you grab onto snowflakes of thoughts, feelings and body sensations, you collect them, right? And you compact together and you roll them up, right? And you make this little snowman, a snow being, right? And then you begin to dress it up. Put all kinds of things around it. You keep hardening.

[47:18]

And your greatest fear is that the snowman is going to melt. It's going to dissolve. But this is what our practice is about. Dissolving the snow person. Dissolving that frozen, contracted, collected pile of thoughts, feelings, and body sensations that we say, this is me. It's not you. And when you allow, through meditation, this warm sun of the awake mind to kind of just melt all that contraction, our life begins to flow again. And we realize in that flowing that we are all the same water. We're all the same water. We're all the same ocean. We're just different waves expressing themselves and dancing on the ocean, but we're all the same water. And then we begin to feel this deep sense of connection and appreciation with each other. So I know that was a long leap from, is meditation helpful, calming the monkey mind?

[48:25]

Yes, yes, I have found it is. It takes a while. It takes a long time. It took a long time to train the mind to be like this. It's going to take a long time to untrain the mind. So be patient. Be kind with yourself. Stay with it. Thank you. Does the microphone work? Does the microphone work? Nope. You're welcome. No silly questions. How do you think about free will? And this came up in your talk with me, that you're describing the potential rising and us being this entire, this nexus of this entire universe kind of coming out in our expression.

[49:33]

And then we also talk about responsibility for our environment. And I'm curious, like, what is that? How would you... How do I think about that responsibility? What is that? In moments, I also think that makes me feel like I have a separate song. Yeah, thank you. It's a wonderful question. What exactly is... free will in Buddhism doesn't exist, you know, if we're all this interdependent expression of the universe manifesting itself in, you know, multiplicity and diversity. At a certain level, no, free will doesn't exist in Buddhism, you know. And yet, there is something that we collectively say, I have choicefulness in this moment. So I kind of think that each each cell of the universe has is, again, taking a strong position, it has enough capacity within there to figure out how to respond to what's happening around it.

[50:40]

So there's enough space in our beingness that allows us to reflect on and find ways to respond to what's happening. But it's not me as an isolated being doing that. I'm doing that through... everything else through the entire universe, trying to find its way towards kind of, you could say, liberation together, right? So for me, if I think about free will, it's like, if many of us around us have that story, then we want to honor that to some degree. At the same time, I think a deeper honoring is to realize that we're making this together. So we're really just responding to each other under circumstances as they unfold. And it can be a little unnerving to feel like, wait a second, where's my choicefulness?

[51:42]

Where's my responsibility? And responsibility is, again, in this nexus point of the whole universe throughout time and space coming together right here and now, that's the place that we are manifesting. We are the universe blooming in that place. And as that particular flower of the universe, we have to take our downward position and all that comes with it. Whether or not we chose it, whether or not we want it, whether or not we like it, we find ourselves there. Then the question is, how will I respond? And part of that response, part of your response, is the whole universe trying to respond. You're not doing that in isolation. So whatever free will that you may feel you're trying to express, actually the whole universe is trying to do that through its own karmic consciousness. Just as you're looking for liberation, the whole universe is doing the same thing.

[52:44]

All of us are trying that. And sometimes we make good choices and sometimes we don't. We're finding our way. Is that helpful at all? Yeah. Thank you. Nandia, are you able to project? Good morning. Where? What's your relationship to prayer?

[53:49]

What does it mean to you? Say more. My own relationship with prayer is that it's a wish, it's an intention of some sort that there may be something that's offered that brings ease to suffering, for example. You know, there are times when I'm walking, I live in San Francisco, I walk down the street, I see all kinds of destitute, you know, people in all states of distress, and there's often nothing I can do. But just simply opening my heart and offering a wish for their well-being.

[54:53]

That I'm not ignoring them. That I, in my own being, feel some degree of their pain and distress. And I'm acknowledging them. And in that prayer, I'm serving as a companion with them. You're not alone. I can't fix the situation for you, but you're not alone. And so I remind myself through that prayer, through that extending, you know, and compassionate wish for them, that we are dependently co-arisen, that part of the reason they're in the state they're in is that we have somehow failed to create a society that keeps from those kind of circumstances, people finding them in those circumstances. So that prayer, may you be free of suffering, reminds me, I need to continue doing what I can do. to create the conditions in the world where people don't find themselves succumbing to that, or not as easily.

[55:56]

They still have a choice. They still have to take responsibility for the choices they made in some cases. So I can't take that away from them. But I can still acknowledge that we're all in this together. So that's my feeling of prayer sometimes. You know, it can have an, sometimes I hear it given as a kind of empty platitude and I'm just like, right? Where it kind of glosses over the actual causes and conditions for how the suffering is arising and that I think is problematic. You know, but if I can open my heart enough and my mind to say, yes, there are causes and conditions that contributed to this. I'm part of that. And I see you in your suffering and may, however I'm living my life, do one little bit to support you to be free of suffering. But again, the whole universe is participating in that activity.

[57:01]

Is that helpful at all? Thank you, Nadia. I'll pray for you if you pray for me. So I see it's 20 after, and I was told that's when we wrap things up. So, okay, keep you longer. And I'm sorry, some of the forums here are different than at City Center, where we chant around once. And I was told we chanted three times. So please forgive my many mistakes. And I remember now, we chant three times. What are we chanting? Oh, hey, the poor vows. So...

[57:42]

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