Good evening, everyone. Welcome. My name is Susan O'Connell and I'm a teacher here at the San Francisco Zen Center. And I'm helping David Zimmerman out tonight because he's involved in a conference and asked me to sit in with you and to participate in the meditation and then offer some words and open it up for discussion. So Those of you who are here for the first time, that's a description of the format. I'm going to talk just for a minute or two, and then we'll settle into meditation for about a half an hour, a little bit less maybe, and around six. Barbara, who's being our host, our Zoom host today, will hit the bell, and I'll talk for a little bit more, and then we'll bring forth our questions.

[02:30]

from our own practice and have a conversation. I hope you're all well. I'm pretty well. I just recently tripped on my rug in my apartment, which I have managed not to do for all of this time we've been sequestered. So that was something I've been... I thought I'd been being very mindful and lifting my feet appropriately, but... One small slip of the mind causes all kinds of repercussions. So falling is one of them. And it's humbling, very humbling, which is a good thing. When I was talking with you on Tuesday, I mentioned that one of the texts that gives me solace and that I go back to in various times, but particularly I'm looking at now, is Pema Chodron's book called When Things Fall Apart, a very apt title.

[03:41]

And there's a chapter called Curious About Existence. And I referred to a quotation from Pema about egolessness and about Egolessness being a state of mind that has complete confidence in the sacredness of the world. And then we talked a little bit about my kind of curiosity about how this time that we have right now might be best spent in terms of practice and checking out our edges. places where maybe we're not in as good balance as we would like to be and preparing in many ways for when the world opens up again. So I'm going to keep talking about that.

[04:47]

But first, I want to give you another little sentence from this book that might be helpful as we go into meditation. And Pema, again, in talking about egolessness, describes it in this way. A fresh moment. A clear perception of a smell or sight or sound. A feeling of opening to emotions or thoughts rather than closing off in our own narrow, limited selves. When we perceive the spaciousness in our lives, when we sense a gap in the continual conversation we have with ourselves, we notice what's in front of us. And we can recognize that which is in front of us as egolessness.

[05:54]

Rather than dwelling on the kind of intellectual concepts there, I'd like to suggest this one portion we take into our meditation practice is when we perceive the spaciousness in our lives, when we sense a gap in the continual conversation we have with ourselves. Or my case that the world is having with me right now with the car that's going by playing music. So as we settle down into sitting, finding our place, finding our physical posture, finding our breath, letting go, perhaps we can find that gap. Instead of being involved in the content, perhaps being interested in the spaces between content when

[07:02]

Awareness is what is present. Just awareness. Not easy, but possible. So without any more talking, I'm just going to suggest we walk slightly left and right, letting our body find its balance. Take a couple of deep breaths and exhale through our mouth. And then settle, let the body keep settling, finding its own ease, its own balance, its own ground. And then being very kind and curious about what arises for us in our awareness during this period of meditation.

[08:04]

And we'll meditate until Barbara hits the bell. at six o'clock. Want to hit three bells now, Barbara, just start with please. Enjoy. Is there a gap in the continual conversation?

[24:01]

Check it out. So maybe when we get to the discussion part, you can tell me whether or not there's a gap in the constant conversation that we run.

[31:58]

So on Tuesday, when I... shared with you what I was studying. I shared that one particular line, which I'll repeat from Pema Chodron. Egolessness is a state of mind that has complete confidence in the sacredness of the world. And then we talked about this kind of call on or tension between the importance of this time and whether it It's sort of almost an obligation that we might have to do our best to refine our understanding of our own practice and the way we are in the world. So there's that kind of uprising. And on the same breath almost is the idea of I might not be able to make a huge effort right now

[33:08]

because of the level of difficulty. So are we sort of obligated to meet this difficulty 100% with the same kind of energy of the difficulty? Or do we need to really make sure that we're caring for ourselves well enough that we can do anything at all? And I talked about dancing with our limits, finding a way to be skillful with How much is enough? How much is too little? And today when I was thinking about talking with you again, I reread that same territory in Pema's book. And I realized that I was drawn to that sentence because I don't know how to say that. I'm a bit of a drama queen. You know, there are some pretty powerful words in that sentence. Complete, well, complete confidence.

[34:10]

So that's rather challenging. And the sacredness of the world and even the word egolessness, that's such a big thing to take on potentially. So a long time ago, my teacher rep said something that I often forget, but I'm remembering it right now, which is that overwork. is a form of laziness. And so this kind of overexertion or overexcitement or making things really important is for some of us, people like me, the same amount of laziness as is a response that somehow is not complete. Over-complete, under-complete are both not paying attention to where we really are.

[35:12]

And I had an experience today where I was working with lawyers and contracts and deadlines and noticed mid-afternoon that there were some things in this contract that were going to be finalized that really didn't work. And I thought, what can I do? Can I do anything? So I made an effort and I got a bunch of people on the phone and lawyers and things. And in that call, I just used every creative idea I could possibly think of, of how we could maybe get out of this situation that wasn't really working. And at the end, I was told none of my suggestions worked. And I thought, Okay. And then I had this kind of body sense of I did my best.

[36:15]

I did my best. We were in the situation partly because I'm in over my head a little bit. And there was something I missed. And I was thinking, boy, I shouldn't have missed it. But you know what? I did my best. And with that, I was able to hang up the phone and let go of this. And now we'll see what happens next. that sense of I did my best I think might be a more wholesome, appropriate way to approach the question I was asking before is what is it that I can be studying, working on right now that will best take advantage of this unusual time and prepare me for a possibly even more unusual time that will come. the famous middle way way. So that further definition of egolessness that Pema gives us later in the same chapter is what I read to you right before we sat, which is something much more simple, less dramatic, less...

[37:35]

Absolute in a way, although she's talking about the absolute, but in an ordinary way. So egolessness is a fresh moment. A clear perception of a smell, a sight, or a sound, which, as we just said then, I was very appreciative of the birds that are still alive. making their sounds right now outside my window. And even of the cars going by as a... When my awareness was aware of those sounds, it was so simple. You notice right there, the gap. There wasn't a thought right then. After simple, there was just sound. So those gaps... fairly small most of the time between thoughts, but it's simple and sweet.

[38:41]

And it's actually a manifestation of that very big word, egolessness. So, and it's also, she says, the feeling of opening to emotions. So that kind of movement towards where we actually are and what's arising in us before we determine that we like the emotion or we don't like the emotion or get involved in somehow wanting to change the situation. Just that opening to what's happening for us is another example of egolessness and an opportunity to feel the spaciousness. So she does say very soon after that last sentence, it doesn't have to be a big deal.

[39:45]

And that's what I read today. And I made me smile. It doesn't have to be a big deal. But it's really, really important. So. How do we hold that? How do we hold that? And. I'm curious about how you hold that. And you know how to raise your hands, I think. With the little hand thing. What do you do? Please click on the partition and control button and the blue hand. Or just raise your hand. Did I see your hand, Adam? No, or are you just scratching your nose? Okay, all right. And Joe just scratched his nose. Come on, it's really simple.

[40:57]

It's not a good deal. It's just really, really important. Susan. This is Alex. I was hanging on to those words in the sentence and I did feel they were a bit dramatic. And I do agree that these gaps in active conscious thinking are pretty short for me. And sometimes they provide joy and other times it's just a question mark. Right. And, yeah, I don't know. I am reacting to words. I'm reacting to sensations. And I thought of my mind as this, like, a computer. And it has this very, but it has a very short time frame where it can actually, I can have a conversation with it.

[42:09]

Yeah. just think directly about what's happening in front of me, other than what happened in the past. And I really appreciate your helping to navigate all of the language and the grasping of the different states that we might want. don't we, some of us really think the ultimate would be totally cool, right? Let's just live there. Right. That's, and that's another kind of form of laziness, right? Or, or not maybe laziness in that case, but wanting to get out the difficulty. Yeah. Get out of it. And, and there's no way out. There's only through, there's only through. And,

[43:10]

To me, a word, a good substitute word in there other than the ones that I was emphasizing before is this curiosity. It's a light, energized. And, you know, when you said the question, that's the energy of curiosity is a question. What is it? And that's it may be there may be joy or it just may be the energy of not knowing. And she even talks about that in here, about not knowing being, also being egolessness. So, yeah. Yeah. And so thank you for that. I could get lost in the book. I'm not going to. This is a really silly thing, but my son just texted me. He's getting ready to send me a Mother's Day present and he needs my address.

[44:12]

So if I give it to him now, he'll actually send me a present. So I'm going to and it would be good for him to do that, I think. So I'm going to do that right now. I don't know if there are other mothers in this group. Thank you very much. Okay. Yeah, it was very sweet of him. Doesn't always remember. Is there another comment or question? Yeah, May. Thank you, Susan. Sharing your dancing with the limit. I have a question about... You said you overworked, right? So I'm curious about this overwork and the limit.

[45:16]

So do you think this overwork period is necessary to reach your limit? Or you basically can drop at any time. You don't have to do anything. It's just this overwork. you know, driven by ego. You really want to be exhaustive, feel like exhaustive and have a sense of, well, I do my best. But so, so see here you reach to, oh, I do my best. But maybe prior to the many, many moment, you can, you can drop off, right? You can, you can just release. Yes. And then, so, So where's the limit? So there's a multiple limit or there's just one limit? Do I? That's very complex and good question.

[46:18]

Thank you. And I've studied this in myself. And I think for me, that kind of limit that comes, let's say, On the other side or close to exhaustion is a habit of mine. So I can do that. I have the capacity to do that for some reason. And to pretty much bounce back afterwards. To be depleted in the moment, but then be able to repeat. So it's possible to do that. But I'd like to have other choices, like you said. I'd like to, for instance, be able to go, you know, I didn't finish everything on my list today, but I'm done. I think I'm done. You know, what would that be like to have that be the limit, to test out having different habits?

[47:26]

Because it might feed, it goes back to that question for me of balance. help me balance more. It might help me be more of better service to other people, which is the question underneath all of the questions is when I'm studying myself, I'm studying myself not so that I can get better, but so that I can discover how to make the best offering to others. And that slight shift of focus to being beneficial to others, I propose, is also egolessness. There's something there that's in front of or in place of or bigger than my small self. That's the barometer for the effort. So if it's just this habitual, I like to work really hard and get really tired,

[48:29]

And sort of there's some pride in there of that kind of thing being good. Well, that's been beneficial from time to time. There's beneficial results from that. But not if it's not a choice. Not if it's the only tune I know. So I think when you were moving your hands like that, just like move your hand about this far tomorrow, right? And go, okay, I hit that place, I'm stopping. And see what happens. I can see you want to play with that, so play with it. I encourage you to do that. Paula. Hi, Susan. Hi, Paula. I was...

[49:29]

thinking when you mentioned this situation that you had today with an issue with the contract you were working with and you felt you did your best to solve it. And even if it didn't work, it gave you ease, the feeling that you did your best. And I feel that at the same time, a similar situation in my case, I would easily fall into a feeling of hopelessness, like the feeling of how am I going to get through this if my best is not enough. The same situation, but how hopelessness and anxiety can bring for me. If my best is not enough, then what am I going to do? Right.

[50:32]

You're going to do your best again. I mean, I understand that potential for hopelessness. One of the things I did in this situation was I also confessed to one of my partners in this that there was something that I had missed, you know? And then I said, you know, but like... I don't know how to do this thing that I'm doing. I've never done it before. I didn't see this potential issue. I didn't see it. And I feel, I'm sorry I didn't see it, but there's no way I could have seen it. You know, when we do our best, it's because it's our best. It's not like we're leaving something out that we could have done. You know, it's like, well, this is it. And then the universe will turn. And we don't know. the ultimate result of what that effort will be. It may be that the particular situation won't work out. That could be true.

[51:34]

But something else will come. And then each time we do our best. We do our best. If we're in a situation where we're always not reaching the limit, then we should maybe change our situation. Because we're trying to do something that maybe isn't good for us to keep not meeting our own expectations, but... Yeah, but what I mean is now we are facing a situation that is sometimes not easy to change, right? And you have to go through it. Humble, be humble. You know, you just maybe can't do a very good job of this. But it'll be your best. And... And there is potential comfort in that. There is a place to rest in that I made my best effort. And maybe then just be curious about this other arising of hopelessness.

[52:37]

What is that? You know, it doesn't have to be there. So the fact that it is, is something to study. But not necessarily believe. You don't need to believe it's hopeless. But you can study that you think it is. Yeah. Yeah. That gives you some agency in hopes. I think it's a good thing. Yeah. Thank you. You're welcome. Hello? Susan? Who is talking? Joe. Joe on the next page. Maybe you're on the next page. All right. I believe you. Where are you, Joe? At the blue house in the background. There you are. Okay. Thank you, Joe. Hello. Hello. Thank you for bringing up some very important truth.

[53:43]

The one about trying to escape. For me, I experienced that, and it's so subtle. I could slip into it or... and a sense of words, and I feel like this shouldn't be happening in me, or this really isn't happening, that this isn't the bodhisattva way, or this isn't the Zen way, this isn't my training to be dissatisfied. And it's so subtle, and I could almost have a little bit of ignoring it, And I wondered what your advice for those times are. My practice that I know, the only practice I know pretty much is Shanti Deva's just be still or just stop what you're doing, take a breath, is what I try to practice in transitions, what I've been practicing in transitions.

[54:48]

And I think that's the best that I know of. And I was wondering if you had any suggestions as well. Well, of course, yes, do nothing is sort of the ultimate Zen instruction, right? Don't move. Don't do. And I think when you talk about dissatisfaction, it is the basis of being human, being dissatisfied. So that's our human nature. That's dukkha. That's the reason why the Buddha was curious and how to actually work with that. So when we're actually aware of dissatisfaction, it's maybe at a grosser level, like with those words, you know, I shouldn't be this way and this isn't bodhisattva, that kind of thing. It's a grosser level of the kind of dukkha. And I experience dissatisfaction.

[55:53]

as a kind of a low-level buzz in my body, almost like around my diaphragm, so that when I do sit still, I often need to sit with that and through that until it sometimes dissipates for a bit, you know, when you don't feed it, when you don't, but it's there. It's there because we're human. And so when it's up in the level of conceptual dissatisfaction, just pare it down. Be intimate with it. Don't avoid it by trying to say, I'm going to sit still and it's going to go away. Because it might not go away. So if we can't practice with it, we're not going to be able to meet the suffering of other beings. That is... Usually quite unpleasant when we're in touch with the baseline of our, you know, there are many ways to talk about where it comes from.

[57:04]

You know, our awareness of death, our awareness of impermanence, our wish to want to be in pleasure. All that stuff is in there. But it's just being a human being. It's very anxiety provoking. And at the same time, comforting that it's being a human being. Inclusive, inclusivity, I guess. It's a sense of, okay, I'm not the only one in a sense. No, yes, there's no one on this Zoom call that isn't anxious at Zoom level. Does that help? Yes. What you said before and what you're saying now. Thank you. You're welcome. We've got time for maybe one more question.

[58:07]

If someone would like to bring forward their curiosity. Okay, well, why don't we all just take maybe three deep breaths. And before I say goodbye,

[59:22]

I noticed that Barbara put in here in the chat box this idea about donations. And usually we're not very good at talking about this, but it's true that if you are able, it would be fantastic if when you participate in the online offerings, you were able to make a donation to keep Zen Center safe. engaged and available and the teachings and teachers available to you. So please consider that. And we're doing okay because of the support we have gotten and we need more support to keep going and open until we can re-engage with our usual forms of support of Tazahara Guest Season and Green's Restaurant and Green Gulch and like that. So anyway, give it a thought. Thank you very much.

[60:23]

David will be with you next week.

[60:27]

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