when I don't get too hung up on every footnote. And I notice that there's almost always like a couple of phrases that will sort of stay with me. 95% of something I read from Dogen may not really kind of stay in my mind, but there'll be a sentence or two that kind of keep coming back to me and do start to sort of expand into something bigger. Yeah. For myself, that kind of, I think I heard you say this the other day, Lectio Divinia. That wasn't me. Is that about you? I wish it was. Delicious. But as a method of reading, reading Dogen as a devotional practice not so hung up on kind of understanding the words, I think has really... What is it again? Lectio Divinia?

[01:01]

Lectio Divinia. I love it. I think also just to say that for me it seems like Suzuki Roshi mostly was teaching Dogen without using Dogen's name. The more I kind of read and reread Suzuki Roshi's writings and lectures, and even in ones where he doesn't mention Dogen, I think he's kind of unpacking Dogen for us, just without saying Dogen's name so we didn't feel too scared about it. And that's what Kaz Tanahashi has said on more than one occasion. Suzuki Roshi's teaching is all Dogen. One of the things I thought was interesting, and I only realized it through reading Busho, but it was actually it is kind of a controversial lecture that he gave because he was just turning Buddhism and the way Buddha nature was understood up until that point on its head.

[02:09]

Because for the previous 1,000 years, there had been a notion that there was kind of a kernel inside of us, that through practice, we can perfect and we can realize that we can become these kind of Buddhas, and we can become enlightened beings. If we practice hard enough, we can take this kind of seed, water it, and become enlightened. And Dogen was saying, nope, that is a misunderstanding. Because what Buddha nature actually is, is to awaken to the reality of the fact that the self is empty of any kind of inherent or independent nature, and that it is impermanent. And that that is the Buddha nature. not some idea to remake ourselves as people into enlightened beings through a sheer force of will over thousands of lifetimes. There is a lot of writing that says Buddha nature is permanent.

[03:11]

Permanent? Yes. Well, I would say that the Buddha says nothing's permanent, so there we go. Well, this is... A major debate that's been going on for hundreds and hundreds of years. And I think Phil is, right? We'll talk more about that, yeah. We'll talk more about it. In fact, it's one of the things, I don't even think we mentioned it here, but it is one of the things that you can talk about. Is Buddha nature something that we have inside of us that can be then like polished and turned into something like an enlightened being? Or is it actually the expression of being, the very nature of emptiness and being? And, of course, that's where Dogen lands. I land there as well. And I think it's interesting. We talk about Suzuki Roshi talking about Dogen, but basically they're both talking about the nature of truth and understanding the nature of reality because they both see it the same way. Looking forward to chatting to you about this, Vicky. So we've got three minutes to talk about what is the relevance of Dogen. The relevance of Dogen. Well, we are a very, very niche religion.

[04:15]

For me, I find Dogen extraordinarily relevant because he points me... He points me the way we talk about a finger pointing to the moon. He points me towards this nature of truth. And he gives me stuff to really get my teeth into and to think about and to consider. And I find that extraordinarily relevant doesn't matter if we're in the 1200s or if we're in 2024. For me, it's indispensable. What do you think there? Yeah, I think the... The sort of core of the understanding that I think Dogen is trying to help me come to is really about everyday life. It's really about how I experience my life in the present moment as I live it. So it feels to me very relevant in as much as a number of times

[05:16]

Dogen has changed my life, has changed my understanding of what my life is and what it means to be actively participating in my life. And I think Dogen is also kind of, though we are a pretty niche group, Dogen's kind of philosophical way of thinking is a little more widely out there. I actually, I was years into practice before I actually put two and two together and realized this, but my freshman year of college, 28, 29 years ago, I took a philosophy of religion course in a little college in Ohio, and we studied some portion of Dogat. I think something from... being time, I think. And it was the first thing that opened my eyes.

[06:17]

I thought, oh, there's something in this Zen thing that makes more sense to me than other things. But boy, it's really confusing. So even in larger philosophical circles, people are, I think, starting to realize that Dogen is actually talking about our real experience. Yeah, we have Genzoe Retreats with Shohaku Okamura and now other people that are always sold out. There's quite a few people here tonight. What's a Genzoe Retreat? Genzoe Retreat is the retreat where... I've been to Shohaku Okamura's where it's unbelievable how hard it is Shohaku Okamura works to translate Dogen's writings. It's exhausting, actually, watching him because he works so hard, and it's beautiful.

[07:18]

Word by word. Word by word. Highly recommended. Again, Zoe Retreat. Okay. Okay, 7.55. So what we're going to do now is pretty much break into medium-sized groups. No small groups. Don't worry. No small groups, just medium-sized groups, like five or six or seven. If you feel like you need a chair, feel free to just join a group in the sunroom, which is the room at the back. There's like sofas there. You can go sit there. Otherwise, just make kind of a medium-sized group in the front. You can replenish your tea if you like. And this is just an informal way. If you find you don't have a group, come and hang out with us. And we're just going to chat. Here's some prompts. And you guys can have a talk about what Bouchot is. What do you want to get out of this class? What brought you to this class? Because like I said, this is niche stuff. And what is your understanding of Busho? Perhaps you can talk about the nature, the question of Buddha nature that I raised earlier, and even how you feel about Dogen. All right. We didn't bring the communication agreements here.

[08:22]

We didn't even really talk about it. But just one of them I want to bring up, which is that if you have a tendency to speak step forward, consider stepping back. That doesn't mean to not talk at all. It just means consider stepping back. And if you're someone who doesn't really speak, step forward, consider stepping forward. And you don't have to. If you're an introvert and you don't want to speak, you don't have to. You don't have to speak. Do we want to give a bell so that people know roughly when it's going to end? Yeah, we'll give a bell sort of maybe three minutes before the end. Three minutes before the end. And then a bell at the end. Yes. Oh, where's the end? 20 minutes from, it's actually 18 minutes from now. Okay. Do you have a bell with you, Tanto Tim? Yes, I do. All right. One moment. Do we? Look, there's so many bells. Look at this. Why don't you hit the big one? All right. I'll ring it louder. All right.

[09:24]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_91.95