This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. It's very nice to have Carolyn back with us. Thank you very much for your... even though you were, well, you work on the ceremony. And there's so many people to thank for the way that you came together to continue with our session. Ray Rin as acting Eno and all the domino effects, Suki jumping in for Connie and Naomi for Ray Rin. It was beautiful. It was really this wonderful spirit. of just continuing our practice and responding to circumstances according with conditions.

[01:11]

And this morning we had our celebratory, our celebration of the Buddha's enlightenment and the flowers fell from the heavens and their fragrance permeated. You know, coming back to the zendo for breakfast, the whole zendo was fragrant. And that wasn't just from the fragrant herbs that the garden prepared. That was the fragrance of our practice together. Just pervaded the space and pervades the entire universe. So we celebrated Shakyamuni Buddha sitting, going up to the mountain and sitting on the mountain. And we joined. We joined with the World Honored One, climbed the mountain and sat this week with our hearts.

[02:22]

But the story goes on. Shakyamuni Buddha came down from the mountain. Finally. And this is a poem by Dogen about coming down from the mountain, which also will be our practice soon, to come down from the mountain. You know, sometimes mountain is used for temple, monastery. They're mountains. So... This is Dogen's poem about Shakyamuni Buddha coming down from the mountain. And I think you'll really appreciate this poem. A sack of flowing wind tied around his waist. He stole the wind in the pines to insert or bring forth. Then... a branch of winter plum blossoms to sell, he came and went under the heavens planning to find a buyer.

[03:35]

That image... Yes, I will, I will. So picture Shakyamuni, you know, after his great, unsurpassed and perfect enlightenment and then appreciating and not knowing, thinking he can't really teach who's ready. No one's ready, and they're all enlightened. Even though they're in confusion, no one's ready to hear this. But then, with the help of good friends like Indra, who's a very handy, good friend, he decided to come down from the mountain with gift-bestowing hands into the marketplace. Picture this, a sack of flowing wind tied around his waist. He stole the wind in the pines to insert or bring forth. Then, twirling a branch of winter plum blossoms to sell, he came and went under the heavens planning to find a buyer.

[04:52]

So, you know, into the marketplace with twirling his plum blossoms, you know. The baika, or plum blossoms, are, you know, symbolic of the teaching that is passed on and on, here, there, blossoming, blossoming, immeasurable numbers of blossoms. So he's got a branch and he's twirling them, looking for somebody he's going to sell it to with his sack of flowing wind tied around his waist. So yesterday, or someday, I think it was yesterday, we were talking about Rujing's poem about the wind bell.

[06:01]

There's a description that Ru Jing has about this wind bell, and then Dogen, a kind of dialogue with Ru Jing about the poem, which I wanted to share with you. So, Ru Jing is describing something that's in the temple called a lotus canopy, which is a kind of hanging object with that he describes pretty clearly. It's a lotus, five-petal lotus, and an eight-pointed canopy, and there's mirrors around it. And then on each of the points, there's a bell, and then from the little clapper in the bell, hanging down is a streamer. And those are the wind bells, and the streamers are moved, and then the bells sound. So, This is Dogen talking with Ru Jing about his poem. And just to remind you of the poem from Ru Jing, I've found several translations by Stephen Hine and also Kaz has maybe two or three in different places, so I'll just choose one of Kaz's.

[07:22]

The real body is like a mouth hanging in emptiness. Whether the wind blows east, west, south, or north, it joins the whole universe in chiming out prajna. Ting ting, ting ting, ting ting. So that's Ru Jing's poem. And Dogen says to Ru Jing, I heard your verse on the wind bell. The first line says, the entire body is a mouth hanging in emptiness. And the third line says, joining the whole universe in chiming out prajna. What is this emptiness? Is it just the lack of form? People who doubt the way say this. And nowadays, even students of the way do not understand Buddhadharma. They regard the spaciousness of the blue sky as emptiness.

[08:30]

This is regrettable. And then Ru Jing says, emptiness is no other than prajna. Prajna is wisdom. And we just, you know, sang out the wisdom song, the Heart Sutra, which is, you know... lauding and celebrating and praising, you could say, and teaching prajna. So Rujing said, emptiness is no other than prajna. It's not the lack of form. Emptiness is neither having nor not having hindrances. Therefore, it is not emptiness in the sense of simple lack. And that's Heart Sutra right there, you know, without hindrances. or without attainment and not without attainment. It is not one-sided reality.

[09:35]

Elders in different places have not yet clarified, even form, how can they clarify this emptiness? I'm afraid that here in great Song China, the decline of Buddhadharma is beyond description. And then Dogen says, Your verse on the windmill is supreme. Even if they had numberless eons, other elders would never be able to compose a verse like this. Brother monks should venerate it. Although I have come from a remote land and am not well versed in dharma, I have read collections of Zen Master's teachings like Transmission of the Lamp, wide lamp, successive lamps, and universal lamp. Dogen was very well read, very wide ahead.

[10:37]

As well as the recorded sayings of various masters, and I have not yet seen anything like your windbell verse. It is my good fortune to have seen it. I wet my robe with tears of joy and bow day and night in appreciation of its straightforwardness and its beautiful rhythm. Ru Jing was about to ride off in a sedan chair. He smiled and said, Your words are deep and your spirit is outstanding. I composed this verse when I was at Ching Lang Monastery. At the time, many people praised it, but none of them spoke as you have done. I acknowledge that you have a sharp Dharma eye. When you compose a verse, you should do it in the same manner.

[11:44]

I read this by myself. I didn't think it was so funny. So I love this, you know, we have this, records of these conversations he had with his teacher back in 1223, you know, and he wrote them down and there's collections of them. So, you know, Dogen was, you know, when it says, I wet my sleeves with tears of joy and bowed over and over day and night, in another translation it said, after a hundred prostrations, he said to Ru Jing, you know, I've heard your verse on the windbell. So his, putting his body, you know, expressing with his body his gratitude for having met with the teaching, with the Dharma, with this teacher who he felt was his, the authentic, he had gone to other teachers in some China and

[12:52]

awakened with Ru Jing. So this poem, you know, and I thought, gee, Togen, you know, he really thought this poem was really good. I should look at this poem again, you know. So the real body is a mouth hanging in emptiness, or also the whole body. And this body, I think, is our real body, our real body, our real whole body. And also whole body is the great earth and the universe. So that body, what body is that body? And also at the very same time, this very body sitting here all week, the real body, is a mouth hanging in emptiness. And this mouth, you know... a mouth that can speak or not speak, and functioning fully, it helps sustain our life, you know.

[14:02]

Chewing, and what does Dogen say? A monk's mouth is like an oven. You know, you just cook whatever's put into it. Cook your food right there. The real body is a mouth hanging in emptiness. Whether the wind, and I think this mouth, this wind bell and mouth is probably a similar character. Whether the wind blows east, west, south or north, it joins the whole universe in chiming out prajna. And then we listen. And another translation says to the tend to nebulation of the ringing of the ringing. So as Dogen often does, and other teachers as well, for koans and stories, he then says, well, you know, for koans sometimes, if I were there, I would have said this, or if you had asked me, I'd say this.

[15:06]

And he has his own poem. He writes kind of a, you know, a verse in praise of, you might say, or his own understanding. So this is Dogen, the translation of Dogen's, by Kaz. The whole body is just a mouth defining empty space, ever arousing the winds from east, west, south, and north. Equally crystalline, speaking your own words. Ding-dong. Ding-a-ling. Ding-dong. Ding-a-ling. So, you know, this, you know, what's the difference between Ru Jing's poem and Dogen's poem? Or, I don't, it's not necessary to look at differences.

[16:08]

It's just Dogen's bringing out, you know, Dogen's tin-tinabulation. What he wants to express is with the wind of the poem of his teacher, now he fully expresses. And this equally crystalline, speaking your own words, each one of us is, as Albert said last night, each of us is thus. This isn't, you know, these poems and stories of the Buddhists and ancestors, are our stories. These are our family stories. This isn't something that happened thousands of years ago, and Buddha's enlightenment happened today. By revering Buddhas and ancestors, we are one Buddha and ancestor. This is our ringing out with these winds that are blowing for us.

[17:14]

ever-present. Nature of wind, ever-present. Not sometime long ago. So, as we come out of Sashin, come down the mountain into the marketplace, twirling our plum blossoms, Often people ask me, you know, what's the best way to go home or return? And I think each of us has to find that way for ourselves. But I know that it may not be possible, really, to try and describe to others. what this was for you, actually. It may not just to say I, you know, you were with me when I sat that whole week, you know, might be just enough.

[18:27]

People who sat with you, we have a language now that is intimate language. The wind of the family house, you know, the mimitsu no kafu, that wind is a shared, but others may not quite understand it because they weren't there. You know how that is. You had to have been there. We try, we want them, we want our loved ones to get the joke, but it falls flat, you know. You had to have been there. I've been, when I was walking down here, I thought of Jane Hirshfield's poem, which I don't know by heart, but one line is, we were happy and then we were sad. And then we were happy again. It went on. And the poem goes on. Sometimes we're one way, sometimes we're other.

[19:33]

And those winds, you know, that isn't... where we need to put all of our energy, having it change from one to the other. It's how do we ring out the ringing of the ringing? What is our crystalline voice speaking our own words? So Dogen brings up this poem of Ru Jing's again in his fascicle called Prajna, which is in the Shobho Genzo, in his masterwork, this is the second in the various collections, it's number two, it's Manifestation of Great Prajna. And he, you know, we might think, have Prajna, some idea of what Prajna is, and in this fascicle he really, as he often does with language,

[20:35]

doesn't allow us to have any holding to or attachment to what we think great wisdom is. He says there's the 12-fold prajna, meaning the 12-fold chain, is all wisdom. The 18-fold prajna of eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body and mind, sight, smell, sound, taste, touchables, all of that, That's the 18-fold prajna. And then there's the four-fold prajna, four-fold wisdom of suffering, cause of suffering, origin, or cause of suffering, cessation of suffering, and the path to cessation. All that is prajna. And then there's the single-fold prajna, unsurpassable complete enlightenment. And the threefold prajna, past, present, and future, it's like, what is prajna?

[21:40]

Everything's prajna. By the end of this crystalline voice ringing out, tint and ablation, everywhere you look is prajna. The sixfold prajna, earth, water, fire, air, space, consciousness. The fourfold prajna, walking, standing, sitting, and lying down. All the common daily activities is all prajna. Wherever we look, each thing is ringing out prajna. So... Buddha says the profound manifestation of prajna is subtle and fathomless.

[22:45]

Fathomless is, you know, so deep it goes forever, it's inconceivable. This is the profound manifestation of prajna. Taking refuge in all things, therefore in all things, taking refuge in all things is prajna. And at the very moment of taking refuge, the prajna that establishes precepts, samadhi, wisdom, and awakening sentient beings is actualized. And this prajna is called emptiness. And it goes on. It goes on. So, wherever we look, the Buddha's are born. Prashna Paramita iconographically is female.

[23:53]

It's the mother of the Buddhas. Prashna Paramita is called the mother of the Buddhas. The Buddhas are born from this wisdom. And we have this hymn to Prashna Paramita in the morning the lovely, the holy, the perfection of wisdom gives light. And this is the mother of the Buddha. So Dogen says, when we study and receive and reflect upon the profound manifestation of prajna, which, as he's just said, is everywhere, everywhere. This is protecting prajna. And when we intend to protect this, then this is receiving and reciting and so forth.

[25:02]

So when this circle of we see prajna all over and want to protect, each thing as a manifestation of wisdom. This wisdom that gives birth to awakening. Buddhas. Wherever we look, there's emptiness. There's form is emptiness. Emptiness is form. This is wisdom. And we want to care for this. And when we want to care for this, that in itself is protecting prajna. And when we protect, we receive it. circling back and forth. And then he, in this fascicle, then he recites Ru Jing's poem about the entire body. This is a mouth hanging in empty space. And then he says, this is an authentic air. This is another praise.

[26:04]

We talked yesterday about praising, you know, when to praise or maybe when not to praise, and Dogen doesn't hold back about this poem. This is an authentic air of Buddha ancestors speaking prajna. The entire body is prajna. The entire other is prajna. The entire self is prajna. The entire east, west, south, and north is prajna. And this is this last part, which I'll share with you from this fascicle, and then I would like to open it up to the crystalline voices in this room to hear the ringing. So, you know, after we've been sitting for this many days, Our ears, as you may have noticed, are very open.

[27:07]

You know, this says crystalline voices. Can you say crystalline ears? I don't know. But attuned and hearing things. And our eyes as well. This is purifying the senses. We can hear the teaching in a different way. So this is Dogen's teaching. Thus, the Buddha, the world-honored one, is the manifestation of prajna. The manifestation of prajna is all things. All things are aspects of emptiness, not arising, not perishing, not defiled, not pure, not increasing, not decreasing. To actualize the manifestation of prajna is to actualize the Buddha, the world-honored one. Look into this. Study this. To dedicate yourself and take refuge in the manifestation of prashna is to see and accept the Buddha, the world-honored one.

[28:15]

It is to be the Buddha, the world-honored one, seeing and accepting. Look into this. Study this. To dedicate yourself and take refuge in the manifestation of prajna, which is all things, is to see and accept the Buddha, the world-honored one, to see all things as Buddha and accept that and act accordingly. It is to be the Buddha, the world-honored one, seeing and accepting. Practicing with each thing as Buddha. Is the Buddha seeing each thing and accepting each thing? This is the circle. Revering Buddhas and ancestors. We are one Buddha and ancestor.

[29:17]

Awakening Bodhi Mind. We are one Bodhi Mind. Study this. Look into this. Dedicate yourself and take refuge. in the manifestation of prashna. So... So, ever arousing the winds from north, east, south, west, east, west, south, and north, equally crystalline, speaking your own words. Please. What do you have to? Chrysalis?

[30:28]

Yes. And when you first read the poem, I was wondering if I, like, which word I was hearing, if it was, like, this line, like a jewel, or, like, you know, like a crystal, or if it was this process of transformation. And I'm wondering if there's any similarities in those words, where it Yeah. Well, chrysalis and crystalline, I think they're probably, I don't know if they come from the same root, but it's interesting you bring up chrysalis because I think, you know, chrysalis is, and that process is so accurate for, I feel, our sashim practice, you know.

[31:30]

We're kind of these pupa or larva kind of, and then we spin around this container, the container of our cave of emptiness, but our cave of sachin forms and we stay in there. And then what happens to the pupa, to the larva, is it dissolves into a kind of broth. Did you know that? totally like it just comes apart, which kind of happens on the cushion. I know. And we don't know which way is up or down, and we just stay in that chrysalis. And then, in this broth, there are these, like a few of these genes that kind of find each other and they begin to form into this butterfly shape, this new form.

[32:36]

A new form is from this broth, this totally dissolved mess, you might say, comes this reforming of this new thing, this butterfly, and then, and it's kind of an ordeal in there, I would think, like totally dissolving like that. Yeah, that's, you know. And then coming together is an ordeal probably too. And then it's time to emerge. It's an emergency, actually. You have to come out. It's time to come out. And the world is new because you're new. So I think it's really an apt image. Yeah, well it's, you know, translators,

[34:23]

Other words have been used, like the void, but that doesn't work so well. But it's a translation of the word shunya or shunyata, empty is shunya, shunyata is emptiness. And shunya, there's a gourd, a gourd, and if you know about gourds, they look like there's something, it's form, but it's totally, there's nothing inside, it's very light. That's the word that's been used for this reality, that it has an appearance. It takes form, but actually it's not this solid thing that's substantially, it takes form and conventionally, it looks like there's form, but we give it way too much solidity. So it comes from this gourd, this Indian word, you know. So I think... You're completely right. It's been upsetting people and baffling people.

[35:27]

Like, why? Because in English, the connotation is meaninglessness, depressed, just empty of joy. It has all that. And I think the more you use it as a kind of Buddhist term, it drops, or it has for me maybe, over the years. It doesn't carry that anymore. It's just... It's more this, you know, kind of fathomless off teaching and truth, you know. Yes, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that does seem to help. It's empty of what? Empty of own being, empty of separate self, empty of abiding self and substantial permanence.

[36:32]

And then it's almost like you get a feel for it. It's like what's being said. I know when I first began to practice, it's like, do not talk with me about emptiness. I don't want to hear about it. I don't know what you mean. I really had an aversion. I didn't want to... I mean, I could do the Heart Sutra, but I'd open a book and he'd start talking about it. I couldn't get near it. And what was the key for me was Thich Nhat Hanh's commentary on the Heart Sutra called The Heart of Understanding. It's a very slim volume, and it was just the skillful way that he, it was like a key, it was like it opened. And from then on, it was then I thought, oh, I want to. you know, study this, you know, more thoroughly and more thoroughly and there's no end to the study. I mean, oh, hello, Jamie.

[38:04]

How can you meet the Buddha? You're going to meet. I had that meeting and meeting that moment. Whereas I was going to say, she's not how to make it because she needed something. She would tell me that I love her and had to give a shot of the beautiful. And I had a strategy. You know, you're not necessarily presenting the attention today. I can't be talking to people. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, we've been having this kind of ongoing discussion about what skilling means and what strategy, you know? And same with the precepts. What's not following the precepts out of compassion, you know, where you actually don't observe it? So, a little jade... Yeah, I, you know, my sense is this is all she could do at that point.

[39:14]

This was her way of hear me, hear me. But she couldn't do it directly. You know, sometimes we can't, we don't know, or it's not okay sometimes to go. It's like the The myth of Psyche, one of her tasks in the myth of Psyche, one of her tasks is to gather the golden fleece. So she heads on down to where the rams are, the golden fleeced rams, and it's midday, it's noon, the sun is hot, and the rams are like crashing into each other. And she heads right straight into the middle of that, and the reeds that grow nearby say Psyche. Don't go in there now. It's not the time. You can't go in there. You'll get hurt. Go at twilight and gather the golden fleece from where they've rubbed up on the hedges and gather it then. And she did.

[40:18]

That was her task, to get the golden fleece. The task wasn't to get in the middle of the ramps and get smashed. It was get that golden fleece somehow. So she found a way. So it's skill and means. Was that deceptive to not go straight into the pen or the pasture? Or was it strategy or skill and means? I think this is a good thing to be turning, you know, for ourselves, what we're up to. And strategy, you know, somebody was saying, it's not a bad word, you know. I mean the... origins and all, but I think skill and means and strategy are different, and one may be separating ourselves from our experience, perhaps. So for little Jade, I guess I understand this is the only thing she could do.

[41:22]

I don't know the full story. You know, you don't know. Why couldn't he just come to the door, or she? It just says her lover. It doesn't say, you know, why didn't the lover just knock on the door? Well, we don't know why. We don't know why. Horton Hatch is a who? Wow. Go for it. My Lord must make it clear to stop without the farmhouse near and snow it.

[42:27]

Thank you so much. It's such a perfect poem, isn't it? For our session. The only other sounds. the sweep of easy wind and downy flake. Flake? Flake. Flake. Easy wind and downy flake. I was thinking about the bells that have been calling us through the window and just as a musician, I know from experience that the emptier something is and the more hollow it is, the better it sounds.

[44:04]

the form of it and the ethnics of it together contribute to its resonating properties, which is the reason . So that's something. Actually, I also wanted to share another thing. I have a lot of music kind of flow through my brain that looks like in my mind's ear, like the idea of making music voluntary, involuntary, or whatever. But I only... Can everybody hear? You have to... I've only had one persistent auditory hallucination, like the experience of hearing a sound rather than kind of singing it or making it. And it started when I was lying in bed kind of waiting for maybe not knowing whether I'd just fall asleep or whether I'd was just waking up and it was the kind of ding-a-ding-a-ding of the wake-up adult person way off on the rim of my experience, you know, like maybe that's happening, maybe it isn't, maybe it's just time to get my last moments in bed and it's just kept going on for so long that I knew that there couldn't, there's no path around

[45:33]

So I started to wonder what was happening. And then it started, that happened night after night. And then it started happening when I was sitting here, and I'm not going to have to hear it in a day. I would hear it out, sometimes up there, sometimes up there. I said, the Salvation Army is all kind of crazy. Get me, anyway. And... I almost, I had this sort of feeling a few times that it was the first night of the machine and I was just about to wake up and just trying to get out of bed at the end of the first period of the birthday. And this is the feeling that I had, I kind of uncomfortably and unwillingly, I kind of repeated different feelings about it, sometimes grateful, maybe. Maybe I have all of the times, but I wonder if I'm not in other times.

[46:38]

Really? I wonder if I can carry that out to the world to sort of, you know, whenever I hear that interruption, maybe there is a sort of wake up call quality, but thank you. May it be so, any bell. can be a mindfulness wake-up bell, right? Or anything, any sound, any... Do you know who the wake-up bell person is, Yasha? Can you guess? That is one of the Shuso's marvelous jobs. Yes, yes. Leave your address. I'll be there in 40.

[47:46]

What is that poem about bells, [...] and the tension abolition of the bells? What? Right, right. Okay. What else? What other crystalline voices? Yes, Jamie. Before I sang beautiful thoughts, you know, with all the songs that I was surprised. I like singing the thank you. And there's interesting things that we don't pray much, and I feel so good, like almost like stroking, just like back and forth.

[49:00]

wow, that's a bit much with my feeling of, like, how they were using each other. Yeah, yeah. But I think it's so important to share appreciation and gratitude. And at the same time, I hear that I have my own experience of having difficulty receiving things. It's just a bit like, that's nice. Thank you for sharing it. Alfred and I had a wonderful exchange area in March, Cleveland. And then Jordan said, being actually filled up, he was like, I hope you don't mind saying that. And it was so funny. Why is it so hard? We really didn't want to hear from each other. In fact, we appreciated it. That was very cool that everybody stood out. Yes.

[50:13]

Well, I think what you say is very true. Sometimes, if we think of it as one of the winds, you know, because blame is hard too, right? So can we, you know, whatever the way the wind is blowing, what's our response without a kind of formulaic response? If praise comes, I always cringe and say, no, no, you don't mean me or something. Fresh, fresh response, which might be praising back like Dogen and Ru Jing, you know. or it might be wetting your sleeves with tears. You don't know. But to feel like my habitual response is, no, no, don't say that, I don't want to hear. You can feel that it's not fresh, it's stale, kind of stale wind.

[51:19]

And same with blame. And what you said about You know, it's feeling sadness about this moment, which is unrepeatable. This will never come again. And, you know, we feel it so poignantly because the container was so strong, you know, so particularly, has so many particular properties to it. But each moment is like that, unrepeatable. never to come again, saying goodbye to that person as they go off to work. So that attitude of ever-present, ever-changing, like tea. Tea ceremony, those gatherings, one time, one moment, right?

[52:25]

Isn't that the tea saying? come together that season, those utensils, those people, that calligraphy, and it's never, never to happen again, ever. But something arises. What's that? Are we there for that? Or are we, gee, I wish I could. Thank you for showing up. tabulation of the bells. Yes, Linda. You know, I'm not usually in terms of practice. I'm one of those people that, um, just like the shadow of the whip. The left human practice has been enough to get me to move into a deeper place.

[53:27]

And, um, Many of the machines I've been in recently have been small ones. Each one usually do one, two, three roles. And so with that, I'm not going to say, I'm going to play the, just being able to have fat rope. It's been really wonderful in a way. Well, I think sometimes another rope can be tragic. You know, to be there. Yes, yes. I think that's a wonderful point. Someone else also brought that up where there is the work, it does need to be done, but does it really have to be done like right now during Sashin?

[54:28]

I mean, could it? No, no, no, it must be done. for a little bit, you know, take a little break. That's, you know, to be able to notice that and when you're sitting with Ryumon, you are, I don't know, combination, you know, I don't know, you're everything practically. So you can't tell as well because there's so much to be done. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm glad you got to sit so, it's nice to go to another practice place. Same with Gene Gallagher. She was telling me, if I might, that in the city center, she's sitting, she's the guest manager and work leader, and people come up to her and say, I know you're in silence, but could you please, you know, and then there's something to be done. But here, nobody did that to you, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's a value to go to another place where...

[55:31]

They're not going to ask you. Yes? Yes. Yes. And I'm sure, you know, even for the point of really a good, you know, good for me to be. Yes.

[56:36]

That chant, by the way, the Eihei Koso Hotsuganmon, the translation of the title is The Vows of the High Priest Eihei. Dogen is Eihei Dogen. Eihei is eternal peace. That was his name of the temple and part of his name. So these are his vows and it's excerpted from a fascicle, which I think is Rai Hai Tokutsi, bowing to the marrow. I think it's embedded in this fascicle of these vows that he made, you know, to see the true Dharma and upon seeing it, to not have doubt, you know, to renounce worldly affairs. What are worldly affairs? Well, I think they're different for different people, what worldly affairs are. So this is Jogen, you know, he... You know, this person who died at age 53 and was so, you know, the output of Dharma and the prolific writing, and it's just amazing to me, really amazing.

[57:53]

And then the sincerity of these vows of my lack of faith and practice, you know, just till the end of his days, you know, he said that, you know, Buddhism, and the teachings are vast, and I haven't gotten even close, you know. So I find it inspiring, although it's grown on me, you know, that particular piece. Thank you very much.

[59:37]

I heard that as the practice of stillness within sound and sound within stillness and not privileging one over the other but hearing both. Yes. I think it is to jar on the plate about the period and thinking about the period. Kind of changing, you know, means it makes the period kind of go down to that one hole.

[60:40]

It's a lot of period, or it's a lot. Don't think of it. Praise my Dharma sister. Everyone listen to her. Yes, someone was telling me about a strategy maybe or that they felt they needed to hydrate. There's a whole battery of water bottles over there and it looks like kind of heading off to the bar to get hydrated. During Kinyin, it's like the Kinyin... bar and grill or something. Anyway, a lot of hydration going on, which is very good. I, you know, support hydration. But you can ask yourself, do I really need a glass of water? Do I really need a sip now? And then, as someone was telling me, if they have hydration in Kenya, then they for sure have to use the bathroom the next time, and it's okay to use the bathroom, so is this strategy?

[61:51]

Anyway. Yes, people used to, at Tassara, do not make coffee during Kinyin, I think is in the admonitions. It's probably since time immemorial that Kinyin has presented this conundrum of do I need to leave this end? But one thing I read, it was a commentary on the Ganjo Koan, and it said, actualization of the Genjo Koan, or the true manifestation is Shashu posture. It's walking in Shashu. And I was like, wow. This is from a commentary by somebody who lived during Dogen's time. Senne, I think. And he pointed to Kinyin as the full manifestation of the Genjo Koan. And I thought, these guys, there's something about Kinyin that

[62:53]

is being lost on us or something. Well, thank you for that confession. But it sounds like it changed the experience of the schedule for you, staying put. If possible, you know, try it. What was the last thing made you think?

[63:59]

What? Well, thank you for mentioning that. We're so lucky. So fortunate. I don't know what the word is. We're so blessed by having our garden and You know, this land and the farm and this green, you know, it's so silent here in the winter especially. And then to be able to go to that place. And what you saw was, I didn't show you anything. The garden and you met, you know. And it's like that every day. But we often don't even, we don't meet. We don't need it. It's not just sashim when those dew drops are hanging off the grasses and the fragrance.

[64:59]

It's prajna, you know, all things. So, you know, that was you, Ben. That was your body-mind experience. and I actually loved to play follow the leader. I think as a kid, you know, where you walk and the leader gets to go like this, and then everybody has to do this, and then sometime we'll do it that way. I also used to like Captain May I. Do you know that one? Mother May I, or Captain May. We called it in Minnesota Captain May. That was fun. Any more bells? Any more bells? Yes, Austin. I just wanted to thank you so much for telling us Dr. Seuss stories.

[66:05]

I needed those so badly. I think you probably know this. I would be... I've never heard those stories, actually, and I'm so quick to pick up the Chara or... Something like, something really, like, I want to feed my heart. I really feel like what really fed my heart, I guess, was hearing Dr. Seuss in the Zen Valley. Feeling like, I've come pretty far away to come here, sit here last night, and I never thought that I would hear Dr. Seuss talking about Hansu. And it's like, it's like true darkness, waiting to hear it. So I just want to thank you for that. You're welcome. I would love to read you more stories. Barbara, are you feeling better?

[67:14]

Yes, thank you. I think I just OBed on beginning cold and sitting, not hydrating. Thank you. This question I've actually had because of sober zazen that we've been doing and that zazen appeared, Zen is zazen, that our path of sober zen is seated and sitting. As to go into the world, my feeling is, and this is what I'm asking you, that zazen is not necessarily just sitting, Because most of us don't have much time to do that every day. And even if we do, that would don't get in mind whether zazen isn't a bigger thing than literally just sitting in a piece of posture. What do you think, Barbara? I'd like to, well, I think it is, but I'd like to know, I mean, we could say it's all-inclusive practice or our whole life, but I wanted something more concrete than a big all-inclusive

[68:22]

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, we talk about bringing zazen into our everyday life, which is actually almost... Anyway, it's a good phrase, to bring it in. So what immovable, total engagement, immovable sitting does not mean that that's all you do or that that's the only zazen. It's the immovable sitting of meeting family and friends buying all those gifts that you're gonna have to bring, taking good care of your body and mind, shopping, doing volunteer work, that's the total engagement in a movable sitting in each activity. And you're an active member of everyday mind, everyday zen, and you know where that comes from. Everyday mind is the way So we don't privilege, we put great care into sitting and it's not, this is the only way and it's better than any other activity.

[69:39]

Every activity expresses total engagement in a movable sitting. I shared with you about just my experience at the practice period. appearing to a challenging schedule, working in the kitchen, for example, and chopping onions, you know, that each thing demanded complete attention in a way that I had never done in all my years out there because I was tired of it. Whatever the nature of the setup is, it actually forces you or causes you to take total attention to each thing you're doing, sitting, standing, walking, sleeping, chopping onions, And so it occurs to me that could be that immovable posture that would be useful in your everyday life. Definitely. It's the only way to fly, you know. That, you know, the chopping onions was a pivotal experience for me, seeing students from Tassajara chopping onions.

[70:43]

They were older students. They had been there a year. And... I was a very new student, and they were chopping onions. And I wrote about this in the foreword to a cookbook, that cookbook by Dale Kent and Melissa. So I saw these people chopping onions, and I thought, what are they doing? They're just chopping onions, I think. But it was like I'd never seen onions being chopped like that. I mean, I'd seen onions being chopped my whole life, my mother and And I realized they were just chopping onions. They were totally paying attention to chopping onions. And I thought, I want to live that way. That's how I want to be, whatever that is. I couldn't even name it. They were total engagement in a movable sitting chopping onions. So manifesting like that in whatever we do, driving your car,

[71:47]

all those who live with you and speak with you, everything. And posture, you said posture, that helps us remember to pay attention. Taking an upright posture, sitting upright, standing, all those kind of yogic poses, which we don't have to adhere to in a rigid way, but helps us to stay alive to each moment. So I would say that's asen. And also when we're not paying attention, it's asen too, actually. But it's harder to learn there. Thank you. Naomi, Naomi. I think so. I mean, it's up to us really what we want to do. Where did my clock go?

[72:50]

It's 11.30. Yes, Naomi. I have a comment and a question. So when you were describing this list earlier. Yes. I was thinking of, I've seen like in a butterfly museum and have all these priscillas kind of stand up on the wall. Yeah. And I was thinking about how this seems also totally clear and true about practice is that they're just explicitly beautiful from the outside. The chrysalis itself. Uh-huh. Which is also like people say, oh, you know, you must be so happy living at the earth, being able to be practiced with your living. Something like that. But on the inside, it's like, it's a big mess.

[74:03]

Yes, yes. And the other thing about that is that when the butterfly is getting ready to emerge, they start shaking. It's like, you see it. you know, and it's like you can't stop watching, you know, if that will happen, is it going to come out here, you know, which is also, I think, the quality of our practice in a way, but we kind of, we can't let, you know, we can't let go of watching, but, you know, there's no other option. Anyway, so my question then, is about the aprons. And I was thinking about maybe present plain, so not easiest for me to think of this, but so in working with not being blown around, I'm wondering if there's like a need to, a recommendation kind of to avoid

[75:22]

You know, and so I was thinking I've been working with blame for myself and trying to say, oh, I don't want to be that. I'm not going to be that. But that doesn't seem quite true either. You know, so I'm wondering, is it like, is it? Yeah. Yeah. So to say, try to avoid it, is being blown around by it. Yes, the blame. So turning away and... Yes. Yes. Yes. So... So can... Because blame... Blame is not like a thing that you're carrying around. Blame is condition, code, or right. It's a dependently core reason... probably full body event and including so when this arises can you say I see you I know you and you know what's going on with that you know which neither gets like jumps on the bandwagon of blaming and really gets going with it

[76:51]

it kind of gets fueled, nor is it get away, I don't, this isn't good, you know, leave me alone. It's here you are, what's going on? And that might be a different relationship. Naming it, curiosity, and... I would also, probably if it were me, I would try to feel it in the body as a further exploration maybe. What does it feel like? I mean, it may feel like you can't breathe or, I don't know, there's something there too. And then can you soften the body, which might be a whole new adventure with blame. Also, sometimes when we're feeling pain or sadness or fear, we look around to blame it on somebody.

[78:08]

It's got to be somebody's fault. And we look around for an object to just latch on to. It's that. They did it. They made me. They made me feel sad. And actually, that is an impossibility. Nobody can either make you feel sad or happy or happy. If we could, we surely would. If somebody's unhappy and we could make them happy, we wouldn't hesitate. But we can't make... So that's another thing to notice. Can I stay with the sadness that's underneath it? And I'm just trying to give agency to something else that's causing that. Yes.

[79:13]

Yes. What's the difference between pointing at that and blaming? That's the question right there. Because blaming, I think, is extra. But we need to point at it. And we need to address it. And we need to engage around whatever, in some skillful way. And I think blaming is, it's extra. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And it's not, blaming and condoning are not, or not blaming and condoning are not the same thing. Rapscallion ways, did you say?

[80:31]

Or did I hear that wrong? Rapscallion ways, okay. about in terms of what extra outfits I feel like you're... Well, I feel it because I feel...

[81:47]

that wrote both the neck and form or order the poetry. You don't forget it to allow a quarter of the neck, you know, as we all know our ones. I kind of look at a . But if I can step back, I'll be all right. If there's actually . And then still are . And, but if again, I'll start to eat more.

[83:39]

So. . Hallelujah. And I'm very happy you don't feel guilty. That's also extra. You know, it doesn't serve, really. I'm very... I just feel very glad, you know. There's no detours or wrong turnings, you know. It's all transforming and developing and maturing and individuating and waking up, you know. Yeah.

[84:40]

I am going to put my hands together in Gassho. Thank you. while carrying a beautiful spine of manzanita that Mel made for me. Thank you all. I think this is our last... Let's see, we have lunch and we have service and lunch. Cook's Jundo, the kitchen crew, will come in and we'll have a chance to thank them formally. And then there's a reception... after the Cook's Jundo, after lunch, so we can partake of the cookies, the weekend review of cookies and tea and greet each other more informally. Thank you all very much. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center.

[85:42]

Our programs are made possible by the donations we receive. Please help us to continue to realize and actualize the practice of giving by offering your financial support. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click Giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[86:03]

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