We may say so. What technical term we call Dharma? Dharma is, Dharma is what is, just is of itself and by itself, simply speaking, as it is-ness. This is not dualism. In a dualistic understanding, this is non-dualism. So that is technically what we call Dharma. Plainly speaking, this is called truth or principle of existence. Those who realize this and live out to it and transmit it to the next generation is called Buddha.

[01:04]

So, when you use Buddha, there are two meanings. Dharma and person. Is that alright? Dharma and person. So, when you use Buddha, always Dharma and person should come together and work together as one. That is called Buddha we use always. So, very often this term appears in Shobo Genzo. Shobo Genzo uses it very much. Sometimes he uses Buddha Dharma, Buddha Way. Buddha Dharma is that kind of Dharma. But he uses a little bit different term, Buddha Dharma or Buddha Way. But usually he uses Buddha, just Buddha.

[02:10]

That time you should remember Buddha is the merging of the person and Dharma. Dharma is what is, just is of itself and by itself. Non-dualism. So, when you actualize, is that alright? Is that clear? When you actualize this Buddha, taking it in the position of a form, this is called Zazen. Zazen, alright? So, Zazen itself is implication of Buddha with two things, Dharma and person.

[03:15]

So, Zazen is a form you have to do, person has to do. But this is not the Zazen form of Zazen person does, but that is Dharma. Manifestation of Dharma there, ok? That's why Zazen is very deep, profound. So, Dogen Zenji mentions in the chapter of the King of Samadhi, he mentions, it is at the time of sitting in Zazen that one Buddha encounters another. So, it is just then that all beings attain to Buddhahood. So, Dogen Zenji sees the form of Zazen as a great opportunity which Buddha can see Buddha.

[04:25]

Buddha can see Buddha means, Buddha is as it is-ness. In other words, the real self, as it really is, is Buddha. So, when the self becomes the self and settles itself in the self and lives out to it, that time this self is Buddha. Big self, we may say big self, this is Buddha. How can we do it? This is Zazen, that's it. Sit down. That's why Zazen is Buddha's life, life of Buddha. It's exactly life, Buddha's life.

[05:27]

And Buddha's life is Zazen itself. Because within Zazen there is Dharma, so-called as it is-ness, or something, a thing can be seen very clearly as it really is in terms of non-dualism. So, this is Zazen. And that Zazen is something a person can do. That is real Zazen. Within the Zazen, person and also, person and form of Zazen could be produced by person, but simultaneously there is a huge world, so-called Dharma. So, both can be seen. This is Zazen. So, Zazen itself is not something means to get something.

[06:34]

If you think, if you use Zazen immediately, Zazen completely loses its own meaning. Because it's not Buddha. So, that's why Dogen Zenji mentioned in the King of Samadhi's Samadhi, the rare is those who realize that Zazen, just sitting, is Buddha Dharma. Even though people know that just sitting is Buddha Dharma, but no one knows that just sitting is just sitting. This is very important point. Just sitting is just sitting is very important. We always see just sitting at a distance.

[07:36]

It's very difficult to realize that just sitting is exactly just sitting. It's very difficult. Even though you know Zazen is Buddha Dharma, or Buddha Dharma is Zazen. So, we do Zazen very much, but we don't know exactly. No one knows. His statement is very strong. No one knows. From generation to generation, even though in those days, in China, Tang Dynasty or Shang Dynasty, no one knows that just sitting is just sitting. So, this is a very strong admonition. And we have to really pay attention to this one. Zazen is exactly Zazen. Otherwise, Zazen cannot be Buddha.

[08:42]

And you never get an opportunity to become Buddha. No way. But look at this, the world, Americans, or even Japan, people always use Zazen as a means. Even though we mention, we read, the king of Samaritans, or the record of things heard, Dogen Zenji mentions the same things, but we don't understand yet. So, that's why Zazen Xing must be described, particularly by Dogen like this. Okay? So, this is a Buddha. That is called each single Buddha. Each single Buddha. Anyway, he realized this Dharma, and lived out to it in his whole life.

[09:50]

In his, what to say, in his span of countless life after life. And transmitted into next generation after next generation. This is a Buddha. Each single Buddha. In the past, in the future, in the present, forever. That is Buddha. And also, this is Buddha. That Buddha must be transmitted. That is the most important point. Okay? So, Tathagata, just the sitting, is just the sitting, must be realized, and lived out to it, and transmitted. That is very important point. That is essential function. Functional essence. So, Dharma transmission is exactly to realize this one,

[10:57]

and to live out to it, in our everyday life, and transmit it. That is really Dharma transmission. So, is it possible, second point, is it possible to realize it, to realize this, each single Buddha, who has the merging, who merges Dharma and person, as one. Is it possible for us, to realize Buddha, each single Buddha, each single ancestor, who realize Dharma and person, as one. But, this is called wisdom, we say.

[12:02]

Yes, it is possible to know it. So, we say to realize, or to attain enlightenment, sometimes we call wisdom. By wisdom, we can know it. We can understand it. But, to know it, to know, or to understand it, as wisdom, is not the usual sense of perception, etc. Or, not the usual sense of spiritual perception, spiritual knowledge, no. It is not. But, usually, people really believe, wisdom is kind of spiritual insight, internal spiritual knowledge. No. It is not. Because, it is oneness. So, that is called,

[13:05]

this is called wisdom. Wisdom is, in the later, I will mention, wisdom is kind of a back mirror. Back mirror. All sentient beings are reflected in it. Kind of a back mirror. But, that mirror is, wisdom is not something that is fixed, or solid. It is nothing but practice of realizing. To realize is, to realize, to live out to it, and to transmit, this is called wisdom. Because, wisdom appears simultaneously with, to realize, to live out, to concentrate, and to transmit, this is wisdom. So, it is not spiritual.

[14:09]

It is not the usual perceptions. Because, perceptions, and spiritual perception knowledge, is still to see something, to know something, in a dualistic sense. But, real wisdom must be one. So, is it possible for us to do this? Yes, it is possible to exist. Yes, it exists. Actually, in human life, it works. That is called illumination. Illuminations. For instance, like Basho's poem, old pond, a frog jumps into, and sound of water. This is a word, coming from Basho, and coming from the old pond, coming from frog. Then, Basho listened to the sound,

[15:12]

and then made it a poem. He made a poem. But, that word comes from a person, and also nature, and Dharma, anyway. So, that poem, consists of Dharma, whole nature, and also person, who made the poem, in a word. So, simultaneously, if you read the poem, beyond the poem, there is a huge world, that can be felt. You can taste it. You can imagine, you can see, with your body and mind, huge world, and also, personality of Basho. Basho's personality can be seen. So, that is possible. That's why wisdom, oneness,

[16:14]

of the Dharma and the person, is possible to be alive, in our everyday life. So, just practice, the practice, continually, zazen, spinning with whole-heartedness, when you sit down, right now, right here. It's very simple, and nothing to expect, but if you do it, very naturally, that wisdom, it is a wisdom, wisdom manifested, as an illumination, light. So, light means, merging of, merging of eyeballs, skin of eyeballs. That is light. So, simultaneously, eyeballs start to work. So, what is,

[17:17]

what do you mean by merging of eyeballs and skin? It's skin. We don't know what it is, but it works. It really works, every day. So, this is wisdom, okay? So, the third point is, how do we practice? How do we actualize that knowing? In other words, how do we attain this kind of knowing, so-called wisdom? Then, Dogen Zenji commented on this, so-called wisdom, so-called, coming as a bright, brightness, and I hit the brightness. Coming the darkness, as a darkness, I hit the darkness. It comes from, anyway, Record of Rinji, page 42,

[18:18]

you can see it, page 42, translated by Ruth Sasaki. That is, coming as brightness, I hit the brightness, is very simple, very simple, simplest practice, okay? Nothing to bring into anything, or nothing to bring out from that activity or practice. So, all you have to do is just be present constantly from moment to moment. That is called coming as brightness, I hit the brightness, right there. Now, that is,

[19:20]

what characteristic, what is the characteristic of this kind of practice? It is called, without touching upon a fear, without touching upon, without relating to the One Shizen Master mentions. So, what is without touching upon, both are the same, without touching upon, without relating to both are the same meaning. So, what does it mean? That is, Dogen Zenji comments on this, without touching upon, without relating to, means nothing in the world that is hidden. Or, he says, breaking the barrier that no head sticks out.

[20:22]

And, he says, it is subtle and wondrous. And also, that kind of practice is merging and not merging. In other words, A world and B world. So, this kind of practice, this kind of practice is exactly nothing in the world that is hidden. This comes from I think, Tenzo Kyokun, Refining Your Life, Dogen Zenji mentions. Dogen Zenji was taught by old Tenzo in China. When he asked him, what is a practice, the old Tenzo says, practice is nothing in the world,

[21:27]

nothing in the universe that is hidden. So, exactly nothing to, nothing to be hidden. Means, nothing brought in, nothing to bring in, nothing to bring out. Nothing. Because it is completely transparent. This is a practice. Or, what is this? This is called breaking the barrier that no head sticks out. Because, if your head sticks out, then naturally, there is a barrier, partition there. And then, if you see the partition, you have to break it out. But no partition there. So, how can you stick out your head? So, nowhere to stick out your head

[22:29]

particularly. So, be quiet. In other words, Zen Master says, if there is no place to get out, you stay here. When monks try to get out after being scolded by a teacher, the teacher says, get out immediately. And then he says, yes sir. He tried to get out. Then, finding the one door, he said, it's not doors for you to get out. So, he tried to find another one. He said, the teacher said the same thing. The third time he did, the same thing was told how can I get out? The teacher says, if there is no door to get out, you should be here. Stay here. So, that is practice.

[23:34]

So called, nothing in the universe that is hidden. Means, completely practice is non-dualistic practice. And, this is the breaking the barrier that no head sticks out. What is this? Practically speaking, that practice is really subtle. You can't pin down what it is. But, it is not mysterious. It works every day. So, it's wonderful. It's wonderful. And also, this practice is always going it is always belonging to thinking world and not thinking world. Always. Going in and out freely. So, it is

[24:37]

so called merging or not merging. Interdependent co-origination. Always interdependent. Always interconnected. Interpenetration. Always. That is, that is real practice. Person, universe, dharma, working together. When you sit down exactly in the non-dualistic way, person and dharma merge. Merging and not merging. Exactly. You can't pin down how person can be merged with dharma. We don't know. How dharma penetrates person, we don't know. Because, that noble limitation cannot be known. Because, within the noble limitation,

[25:38]

it is not something you try to know. No. You must be allowed to know. When you put yourself right there, exactly, you are allowed to know. That is called practice simultaneously. Breathing simultaneously. Live simultaneously with it. We call dosho doshi. Means, simultaneously live together, practice together. When you really know the mountains as it is, as one with you, I think you have to live with the mountains simultaneously. You have to die simultaneously with mountains. From moment to moment, this is a practice. Practice. That is called practice.

[26:40]

Alright? So, from the number four, okay? Number four. From this kind of practice, can't you see a little bit, this kind of practice is very transparent, okay? Because, non-dualism, okay? Non-dualism. Nothing in the world that is hidden and breaking barriers, complete breaking barriers. No particular place to stick out your head. So, all you can do is just be present. Just stay right now, right here. What is it? This is very subtle, but it's not abstract. It works every day. That's why it is wondrous. We can see, we can know with our body and mind how that

[27:40]

something that is wondrous and subtle works. That is called merging and non-merging. Interdependent, interpenetration, interconnections. Constantly. So, it's very difficult to pin down. So, that's why the once-knowable limitation cannot be known by your perceptions. Because all you have to do is just be there. At that time, your practice, your practice with your body, with your mind, becomes very transparent because you cannot know body and mind. So, your zazen, your practice, your body, your mind becomes just like a mirror, and when you do zazen like this

[28:42]

constantly, I think naturally, a million diamonds, a million diamonds are reflected in your mirror. So, your body becomes a mirror. The universe is reflected. The universe, anyway, your body is reflected in the universe. So, there is communication there. Total communication. It's not spiritual. It's not external communication, communions. But when you do it, you can see with your body and mind. I mean, I said you can see, not you can tell somebody. It's very difficult to tell. But if you can see that communion, that time you can tell

[29:43]

by not usual word, by ground word, very simple word, coming from that merging, merging of dharma and person. That is called the utterance. We call utterance. That is called teaching. But I am talking about now, not the teaching uttered in a word, using by, using the ground word. It is important too. But, practically speaking, that oneness of dharma and person in Zazen is something you have to see it. See with the body and mind. Taste it. I don't know how can I say. It is not spiritual.

[30:44]

It is not physical. It is not external. I don't know from where that communion comes. But anyway, all you have to do is do it. If you do it, right there, there is a communion. So, at that time, your body becomes very bright mirror. But your body is not your body. It becomes dharma. Dharma body. So, it is spread in the universe. So, universe can be reflected very easily in your body. Simultaneously, the universe is reflected in your body. That is called communion. Temporalized spiritual communion. If you try to translate it, we say spiritual communion.

[31:45]

But it is not spiritual. But anyway, so, number four, if your body becomes a huge universal mirror, your consciousness becomes a huge universal mirror. Very naturally, there is a communion between two. And then, at that time, in ten dimensions, your wisdom becomes form. Because, in that, your body is nothing but wisdom. Your consciousness is nothing but wisdom. Your body is wisdom. So, within your body, all sentient beings are reflected. So, very naturally, you can see the form of all sentient beings in your body,

[32:47]

in your consciousness, which is universe. Which is exactly the same as universe. So, very clearly, and simultaneously, that dharma where all mediate dharmas are, mediate beings are reflected is simultaneous person. Person and the external world. So, that reflection of all beings comes out from that universe. Then, you can see your body as a form, mutual form. So, form of your body, form of a tree, form of a winter are not merely form of winter. You can believe because it is coming from that huge universe, huge mirror. Temporarily, I say reflection,

[33:48]

using the term reflection. But that reflection is still dualistic. If you stand up in the mirror, immediately, you can see your body, but still that is dualistic. But it's very cross. Example, that's why we use very much reflection in the mirror. But, Dogen Zenji mentions in the Genjo Koan, real Genjo Koan, real Buddha is not something the moon reflected in the water. You should read the Genjo Koan, Dogen Zenji mentions. This is real practice. This is real practice of Zazen, real practice of everyday life. So, if I see my body and mind in the mirror, immediately, I say, yes, this is me, but still dualistic. But,

[34:49]

in the wisdom, mirror of the wisdom, it's not dualistic. Reflection is simultaneously bodies. That's why it is difficult to understand, but usually people always think we can come close, we can approach very closely to oneness, just like a relationship with the mirror and you. Just like that. We can gain access, close access to the truth. In terms of relation with you and reflection in your reflection in the mirror. Just something like that. Very close. But still, we don't know. We don't know how to be one. So, that is a real, usual pattern

[35:49]

of consciousness. Separate, dichotomize, always. That's why in the Dogen Zenchi mentions, no one knows that just sitting is just sitting. No one. Very strong harmonization, but it is really true. Very true. Not only in those days, today, nowadays. Dogen Zenchi mentions as number four, Dogen Zenchi mentions the knowledge. Knowledge is knowing is a form. Form is mountains and rivers. Simultaneously, form of mountains and rivers are exactly the same as their reflection in the mirror of wisdom. But it is the same, not different. That's why he says knowing

[36:49]

is form, but that form is simultaneously real mountains and rivers, sky, space, time, exactly. That's why Dogen Zenchi explains being time exactly in terms of non-dualism. So, this is and that's why we the Dogen Zenchi can see very clearly all sentient beings, trees, birds, and the snow, and the mountains exactly as beautiful Dharma, not separate, which is called Buddha. That's why the sound of the mountains, the color of the mountains, the sound of the rivers are nothing but Shakyamuni Buddha's voice, something like

[37:50]

this. So, also, your body is Buddha. Your mind, your five senses are Buddha. There is nothing to say, to throw away, or to get into. It is exactly Buddha. So, very naturally, beyond, beyond your senses, in terms of A world or B world, anyway, we have to take best care in terms of the C world. Anyway, this is called Buddha. Anyway, Buddha. Then, Dharma and the person becomes one. That is, he says, form, wisdom is form. Form is mountains and rivers, not abstract stuff. Mountains and rivers. Because it is very closely, you can see. You can see with your body. Then,

[38:51]

that mountains and rivers, you can see in the usual sense, is not something usual things. That's why it is very subtle, very subtle, very profound, very wondrous, he mentions. Because, it works like that. So, mountains and rivers working in the usual sense. Mountains and rivers generate, you know, just like other Buddha. So, that's why if you use it, if you use mountains and rivers in this way, very naturally, mountains and rivers really alive, vividly, like a leaping fish. Then, at that time, mountains and rivers start to speak to you, talking about life of universe. Then, through this, you can learn life of universe, life of

[39:51]

bird, life of human beings. At that time, you become very professional. You become one with mountains. Then, people call you, you are great mountaineer. So, mountaineer and Buddha is for mountaineer, anyway, mountain is not something particular, special. It is his life, Buddha's life. So, number five, from this point, number five, as a number five, what is mountains and rivers? We can see mountains and rivers constantly, constantly reach out to, excuse me, mountains and rivers generate themselves, okay? Generate themselves from moment to moment

[40:51]

with their own full energy, full effort, and reach out and reach out to help all beings, how can I say, maturate. Maturate? Maturate. Perfect. So, from this point, the mountains and rivers constantly help, help us,

[41:52]

help us, okay, help us to make you mature, constantly, okay? So, very naturally, if you deal, if you use the mountains and rivers in that way, like a zazen, practice of zazen, exactly help, you can communicate with mountains and rivers constantly, then you can learn many things from the mountains and rivers. So, even though you don't understand it, or you understand it, don't worry. All you have to do is to achieve continuation of this practice, okay? But it's very difficult by yourself. That's why we need to practice in the sangha, with the people together, under the guidance of the teacher. This is very important, okay? And,

[42:54]

as a conclusion, I have to say, Dogen's statement, he says, this is very interesting point, okay? Let me read first. This is the conclusion of this lecture. The production of the dragon has nothing to do with the inside or the outside of the gate of Wu, person's name, okay? Wu. Using even slightly a single knowing now, you can attain knowing with the whole power, utmost power, by virtue of taking mountains and rivers, which are the whole world. If your knowing doesn't

[43:54]

consist in kindness of mountains and rivers, one knowing and half knowing shouldn't be found. Do not deplore a delay in the coming of your maturity. Not maturity, your discretion. Discretion means good sense. Discretion. This is very... Do not deplore a delay, okay? Do not deplore a delay in the coming of discretion. means maturity. Discretion. Maturity. But you always say, you know, I don't understand what the

[44:55]

dogma mentions in the Buddhist don't understand the Buddha's mentions. We don't understand the Buddhism exactly for Americans because we don't have a cultural background, a long history of cultural background. We don't have enough references, enough textbooks, and then it's very difficult to know it. Of course, of course, I can imagine, I can give a sympathy, but I don't think it is you should deplore in that way. I don't think you should constantly grieve over a delay. All you have to do is anyway, if you see, if you listen, if you have a chance to listen to one thing, that's great. Can't you understand one statement? You know, no one knows, no one knows that just

[45:56]

sitting is just saying, can't you understand this? You don't know, so still you have to, anyway, you have to research, you have to consider it, you have to contemplate it, you have to practice with it. What do you mean? There are lots of things we have to do. So that's why Dogen gently mentions anyway, you have to continually achieve this kind of practice. So, in the beginning he says, the production of dragon has nothing to do with the inside and outside of the gate of Wu, that is, that comes from legendary stories in China. In China, I think ancient time, the emperor Shun

[46:57]

made the big gutter, big gutter river, in other words, river, cutting down the mountains, let the water go, okay, to the ocean, to the big ocean anyway. When they have a flood, flood, flood, then the emperor came, Shun, anyway, tried to make a big river, cutting down the mountains, and let the water go, to the ocean, and then a person named Wu, anyway, accepted this order and did it. And then at that time, he made three steps, water coming down,

[47:59]

just like a waterfall, three steps, can you imagine? And then the cup jumped over the first stage, and second stage, and third stage, from the bottom, and then fish turned into the dragon. This is the story. But this is very important. We jump, it's not a cup, it's not a legendary story, it is a human practice. What is a practice in a human being? We have to jump over anywhere first stage. Most people anyway, crashed. They never get to the second stage. Much less, not many people, jumping, reaching the third stage.

[49:00]

No. For instance, in Zen practice, Zen teachers kick him out. They give up. And if the teacher doesn't give sweet stuff, you know, immediately he or she criticizes the teacher and they escape from this. That person is how can they accomplish one thing in your whole life? You never do it. So, if you want to do something you want, anyway, you have to reach the one stage, second stage, third stage. You shouldn't anyway give up. That is, you must be really brave and patient. Really brave. We

[50:02]

call Taekang, Iron Man. You must be really Iron Man. Iron Man doesn't mean rigid person. It's very flexible. You must be flexible, but still iron. Very iron. Very strong determination there and constantly going. Reaching the first stage, second stage and third stage. And then you can turn into the dragon. Means something wondrous and subtle gives force from your each single part of your body. That is called dragon. And that time it is called maturity. That is the dragon. So production of the dragon has nothing to do with the inside and outside

[51:02]

of the gate of the womb. It's not necessary to go that gate, that river, and then to try to jump over and reach the first stage, second stage, third stage. It's not. Obviously wherever you may go there is opportunity to jump over, to become, to turn into the dragon. That's why he says the dragon, the production of the dragon has nothing to do with inside and outside of the gate of womb. Okay? Using even slightly a single knowing now, knowing is wisdom. If you use any word wisdom means the coming of the brightness, you hit the brightness exactly. What is that plus? This is nothing in the universe

[52:02]

that is hidden. All you have to do is, anywhere beyond maturity or not maturity, good or bad right or wrong, you have to do it. Then, that is great opportunity to turn, to let you turn into the dragon. Why we have to do it? Because mountains and rivers make every possible effort to do this constantly. For whom? Nobody. Mountains and rivers themselves do it just as they are. That is called kindness of the mountains and rivers. So, if there is no sense of kindness of mountains and rivers, you never attain, you never attain one single

[53:03]

knowing, wisdom or half knowing. You never understand mountains and rivers. So, that is why, finally, Dogen Zen mentions whatever you feel, whatever you are, in whatever kind of situation you are, all you can do is to achieve this continuation of practice with mountains and rivers. Because mountains and rivers reach out and help all sentient beings out to mature, to be mature. So, if you are right there, you are well made mature

[54:03]

by mountains and rivers. Please carry this kind of practice forever. Beyond maturity, ideal maturity, or immaturity. That's why don't deplore a delay in the coming of your discretion. We are always worrying about the time when we will understand that huge world. When we are always concerned about the time when we understand that thing as it is. Well, don't worry anyway. All

[55:04]

you have to do is anyway you have to do as in terms of Dogen's and Wanshi Zenji's and the Buddha's and sister's suggestions anyway. Okay? This is the conclusion today. Last one. The production from beginning. The production of the dragon has nothing to do with the inside or the outside of the gate of Wu. The Wu. Just you. Wu. Person's name. Using even slightly I said

[56:05]

a single knowing now. One knowing. But one knowing. Now you can attain knowing with whole power by virtue of taking mountains and rivers which are the whole world. This is an interesting point. You can attain knowing with whole power. Mountains and rivers give you their own whole power to you to help out. To attain that wisdom. That is called kindness of the mountains and rivers. That's why he says you can attain knowing with whole power by virtue of taking mountains and rivers which are

[57:06]

the whole world. Mountains and rivers are not separate from other beings. That's why whole world. That's why next if you are knowing doesn't consist in kindness of mountains and rivers. In other words your life is surrounded by embraced by great compassion kindness of the mountains and rivers. If it is not true you never have a chance to experience to attain knowing wisdom. That's why he says if your knowing doesn't consist in kindness of mountains and rivers one knowing and half knowing shouldn't

[58:06]

be found so you never know. So from this point regardless of whether you understand or not your life is always going in the domain of the kindness of the mountains and rivers. That's why finally what should we do? Just walk in the mist. Mist means subtleness subtlety and wondrous it's not mysterious because it is if you use it it works so all you have to do is just walk in the mist universe kindness of the mountains and rivers this is mist temporarily we say mist so when you walk in the mist very naturally your dress

[59:06]

gets wet before you are conscious of it. This is our practice constantly. Okay? Mountains and rivers is a um not a sign or is it he's using it to mean all that he's doing? Yes. I think the um obviously he mentioned he used his term mountains and rivers and the grasses and walls yesterday you might ask grasses and pebbles and the walls fences etc but those they they are implications of whole universe okay? All beings all beings in the world holds temporally they bring out very

[60:07]

concrete aspect of the all sentient beings instead of all sentient beings. Okay? Is that the end of the quote? One knowing and half knowing should be profound? And then do not deplore or delay in the coming of your discretion. Can you say something more about seeing the body? Seeing the body, what?

[61:09]

He said he had to see the mind and the body. Can you say something more about seeing the body? Because we have always had this stubborn pattern of attaching to the form of five scandals. That's why it's very difficult to know the body as a mirror. But the body itself, five scandals are empty. Empty means the form of five scandals is very flexible. Because you experience it anyway. If you do that then you don't pay attention to the form of the body. Very naturally the form of the body is dissolved. I mention all this in the realm of Samadhi.

[62:11]

Is that possible? Yes, it's possible. But in the intellectual sense it's impossible. Because the form of the body is five scandals. It's very clear. So even though you say no nose, no ears, no eyes, it's impossible to understand it. But actually we do it. That's why if you use it in the appropriate way, if you put yourself in the appropriate way, very naturally the body is dissolved. Okay? That is seeing. Exactly seeing the body. Seeing the body as a mirror. Interconnected with the universe simultaneously. So your body is the universe. As it is now.

[63:14]

Each Dharma as it is is already interdependent and interconnected with everything else. So each thing already includes everything else. But what is this thing as it is? Excuse me, once more again. Just say it once more again. Each thing is as it is. But everything is interconnected. Interconnected. So what is this quality of as it is now? As it is now is identical with the interconnection, interpenetration. That is a different expression. Quality of as it is now.

[64:17]

How as it is now works. In other words, as it is now in each single being works how? That is called interconnection, interpenetration. It is as it is now. State of being as it really is. That is called the non-dualism. That is why the karagiri self becomes a self. Settles itself in the self. Makes it life. Makes it alive. Makes life. So it is the self as it is now. Example. How? How do we know?

[65:18]

If you do it, very naturally all sentient beings are interconnected. Because your body itself becomes a mirror. All sentient beings are reflected, interconnected, working together simultaneously, and digesting constantly. You can see the form, but simultaneously forms are dissolved. Then you can really see that dynamical functioning of each single being within the form of each single tree, earth. So, for instance, in Madhyamaka, Nagarjuna mentions emptiness is interdependent co-origination. Do you understand? It is the same. So emptiness is what? As it is now.

[66:21]

Darkness. You can't pin down what it is, but that's why it is subtle, very subtle. But it's not abstract. It works. That's why it's wondrous. It's illuminate. Well, what is this? Well, how it works, that is called interdependent co-origination. Thank you. Yes, just sitting is just sitting. Nothing else to do. That is, just sitting is nothing in the world that is hidden. Nothing. We always see just sitting is just sitting. If I say so, immediately you think just sitting is just sitting.

[67:26]

What do you mean? You are always looking at that one at the distance. So you are the different things from just sitting is just sitting. So you have to sit anyway. Thank you. That is, just sitting is Dharma, as it is, so-called as it is. Then you have to use it. You have to use as it is. Then what is it? It's sitting. We use a form of sitting. At that time, as it is, nothing is what? Nothing to say. But our mind is always bringing something in or bringing something out. Or sometimes you don't care. So always there is something in and out. But this is not sitting is not sitting.

[68:28]

This is not just sitting is just sitting. You said wisdom is not spiritual. I think I understand what you mean by wisdom. What do you mean by spiritual, really? What spiritual? You can say wisdom is spiritual, but if I say wisdom is spiritual, we always deal with the wisdom just spiritually. We ignore the body. Don't you? Of course, wisdom is connected with spirituality. But not spiritually. Spirituality doesn't exist with the body. So very naturally you have to also deal with the body anyway. And also external, internal anyway, many things. So wisdom is, well, if I run this totality,

[69:34]

spirituality is still dualistic and more up in the air? I think the term spirituality is still kind of pre-abstract. Pre-abstract. Separate from life and separate from particularly materialism. Materialistic aspect of life. Okay? Tweet. Tweet. Can you say one thing about this day that we're celebrating, Buddhist Enlightenment Day? Can you say one thing about this day that we're celebrating, Buddhist Enlightenment Day?

[70:35]

It's like I don't have a feeling for that yet. You know, like what that means. I'm wondering if you could say something about that in view of what we're saying. I think Buddha, as a historical person named Gautama Siddhartha, attained enlightenment through the meditation, through zazen, under the Bodhi tree, realized the great teachings I mentioned today, and Dogen's mentions, the ancestors' mentions anyway. So he was a kind of historical person who found that great teaching. That's what we appreciate. We express our deepest appreciation to him. Just like, you know, birth, birthday.

[71:42]

Birthday is a very physical birthday. Maybe I can say that it's a spiritual birthday. Spiritual birthday. The Shakyamuni Buddha's spiritual birthday. Yes, exactly. Yes, exactly. Yes, same. Shakyamuni Buddha, yes. What does that mean? Inborn knowledge. Unborn knowledge. That's what it means. Inborn. No, I know.

[72:49]

Inborn. One word. Inborn means after birth. From the beginning. He was born with it. Buddha Shakyamuni. Shakyamuni. What? What did you say? It says that he was possessed of inborn knowledge. That he already had knowledge or transmission or something. Yes, he has. He was? That means that he was different from everybody else who was ever born because he had this special thing? No, not special. Everyone has the same things. The difference is he found it. That's it. Everyone has, but you don't find it.

[73:52]

But he found it. That is different. Yes. Yes, for all. Life to life. That's why yesterday I mentioned this. If you see the total picture of human existence, you can see the pictures on the screen. Not only your life. Connected with all sentient beings in the past, present, and future. The whole picture on the screen. That is through the projector. But we don't see it. We don't find it. But Buddha found it. That's why that is a different point. But we have the same things. We have such knowledge.

[74:55]

But we always stay behind the films and fighting and touching to it. Sometimes we are in front of the film and inside of the projector and sometimes a little bit out of the projector. We are always in and out. That's it. But we don't pay attention. The whole picture is life. On the screen. In Tibetan Buddhism, they have like the Dalai Lama has been reincarnated from other teachers. They keep reincarnating. So what happened to Dogen? What about Japanese Buddhism? Do they believe in that? Dogen was reborn as Buddha Shakyamuni. Buddha Shakyamuni. Not Buddha Shakyamuni. Yes, he was Buddha Shakyamuni.

[75:58]

None of the other ancestors were reborn. Do you understand what I mean? Dogen is. Dogen was another Buddha Shakyamuni. Simply speaking. Not the Mahakasyapus and the Bodhidharmas. Anyway, Buddha Shakyamuni was born in the 12th century. Anyway. If you want to say. But don't worry about it. But if you want to say in terms of Tibetan Buddhism, you can say. But we don't emphasize so much. But in terms of Dharma transmission, yes, we can say. We are Buddha. We are Buddha.

[77:01]

Each single ancestor. Each single beings. We live now. Yes, a Buddha. It is the same. And in that sense, lineage doesn't matter at all, does it? We have to return to anyway Buddha Shakyamuni. Then all other, rest of the ancestors really follow that Buddha. Okay? And what about the seven Buddhas before Buddha? Yes, it's possible. If you think of Buddha Shakyamuni in those days, I think the Buddha Shakyamuni's age doesn't exist alone, separate from its past and future. Do you understand? A certain age here, where the Buddha Shakyamuni was born.

[78:02]

That is exactly it's beginning of the world? Still past, yes. Very naturally, you can see the past of the Buddha's life. So seven Buddhas are possible. The Buddha Shakyamuni can see his life in the past, present, future, anywhere. Question? Yes, don't deplore the delay of coming of your maturity. It seems for me, you know, I'm really greedy to get mature. And the thing is, I always look for other things too besides that.

[78:59]

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