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Buddhism and Philosophy

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12/02/2023, Kyoshin Wendy Lewis, dharma talk at City Center.
In this talk from Beginner's Mind Temple, Kyoshin Wendy Lewis addresses the aspect of philosophy in the practice and study of Buddhism, based on the fourth of the Four Foundations of Mindfulness — contemplation of the dharmas. One of the qualities of philosophy and practice not usually explicitly referred to is poignancy, which includes the pathos of human nature and a realization of the unresolvability of the human condition.

AI Summary: 

The talk at Beginner's Mind Temple explores the intersection of philosophy and Buddhist practice through the lens of the fourth foundation of mindfulness, the contemplation of the dharmas. It emphasizes the concept of poignancy in philosophy and practice, the pathos inherent in human nature, and highlights the importance of applying mindfulness to understand the unresolvable aspects of the human condition. Key discussions include the application of mindfulness through the Four Foundations, insights from the Satipatthana Sutta, and the philosophical insights from Jacques Derrida and Iris Murdoch on love and understanding.

Referenced Works and Philosophers:

  • Satipatthana Sutta: The foundational text for discussing the four foundations of mindfulness, emphasizing contemplation of the dharmas.
  • Shunryu Suzuki’s "Beginner’s Mind": Highlights the approach of applying attention repeatedly with curiosity and patience in Zen practice.
  • Venerable Anālayo's Commentaries on the Four Foundations: Discusses mental stability, equanimity, and the progression towards realization through contemplative practices.
  • Jacques Derrida's Philosophy of "Différance": Explores the idea of poignancy and the unresolvable nature of philosophical inquiry.
  • Iris Murdoch: Her philosophical view on ethics, love, and the discovery of reality is discussed in the context of exploring meaning and human nature.
  • Christopher W. Gowans' "Philosophy of the Buddha": Addresses the universality of the Buddha's teachings and encourages reflective engagement with them.

Historical and Conceptual References:

  • Beguines: Examines the historical lay religious movement of the Beguines, active between the 13th and 15th centuries, highlighting their communal living and intellectual pursuits.
  • The Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path: Discussed in the context of transformation and the revelation of life's underlying pathos through mindfulness practices.

AI Suggested Title: Mindfulness and the Poignancy of Being

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Transcript: 

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[04:51]

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[05:57]

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[07:05]

My name is Kyoshin Wendy Lewis. And today I will be addressing the aspect of philosophy in the practice and study of Buddhism. And as a basis for this topic, I'll be referring to the fourth of the four foundations of mindfulness as they're presented in the Satipatthana Sutta. So the four foundations are contemplation of one, the body and the breath, two, feelings or sensations, three, the mind or consciousness, and four, the dharmas.

[21:33]

So the first three are familiar to most people who've engaged in Buddhist practice and in Zen practice, but the fourth, the contemplation of the dharmas, can be a little more complex. So in December, many Buddha sanghas, maybe all, engage in what's called the Rohatsu Sashin, or retreat. And this is a celebration of the enlightenment of the Buddha. So a seven-day Sashin is going to begin tonight here at City Center. And part of a Sashin, of course, is what you're not going to be doing during it. And the other part is what you will be doing. during the Sashin or during a single period of meditation. What are we engaging of ourselves and those around us in the world when we engage in meditation? And before a retreat or a Sashin, there's often a lot of busyness and anxiety and preparations and sort of a hectic atmosphere.

[22:47]

And so the first few days can be a sort of a coming down from that in a way. But most retreats and sushines kind of settle down and the participants kind of settle down after a couple of days. So even the third day can be still a little static. But how does this settling occur? Is it just you get... so tired of fighting or is it that you start to relax what what are all those things and what can support that kind of settling because a sashin as or a retreat like this it's really an extraordinary opportunity and a privileged one it's not just you know some special thing that we all think is so magical it's it's a privilege so how do we honor that So in Zen, meditation is taught as being based in the posture and the breath.

[23:50]

And Shunyu Suzuki's term, beginner's mind, refers to the mind that is able to be patient and to apply, you know, that attention to the posture and breath over and over again, repeatedly, without really knowing what that might lead to. It's an instruction, follow the instruction, something like that. So instead of focusing on enlightenment or the next day or after Sashin or whatever it might be, and also about how enlightenment might empower us or free us or improve things, the basic teachings are approached and applied with curiosity and humility or openness. So the first of the four contemplations is contemplation of the body in the body. Here now, a person having gone to a secluded place takes the meditation posture and directs their mindfulness to the object of their meditation.

[25:04]

Ever mindful, they breathe in. Ever mindful, they breathe out. So... Meditation or mindfulness of breathing is not about control or correction, but attentiveness. In the instructions, it says you note whether a breath is long or is short. And this observation, as in all the contemplation, includes effort, mindfulness, concentration, and understanding. And as that attentiveness is applied, the object of meditation changes and shifts, and one's relationship to it shifts. One thing I found helpful in following my breathing was at the same time to open my hearing to all the sounds that were going on, whether that's just a...

[26:12]

the sound of the air purifier or the traffic or whatever, and then keep bringing myself back to my breath and listening to those sounds and back to my breath. So that's one of the ways to change or deepen relationship with concentrating on your breathing. And this first foundation of mindfulness continues to our four postures. standing, walking, sitting, and lying down. And this is a training of the mind, because those four things are things you'll be doing, they're a seshin, they're things that you do in relationship to your meditation, even if it's just that one period, or a day, or whatever. So you become aware of, in these postures, the a myriad of thought moments that arise and pass away. And what are involved, you know, sometimes we're very self-conscious about how we look and how we're standing and how people see us.

[27:21]

And other times we're just tired and we're just sloppy. And all those different states related to those postures are included. And this allows us to become familiar with the intentions. that are behind these simplest actions in our everyday lives, and then how those affect more complex circumstances. The second foundation is contemplation of feelings. And in Buddhist terms, feelings are not emotions, but qualities or sensations, which is basically pleasant, unpleasant, and neutral. And of course, we naturally grasp those things that are pleasant. perfectly ordinary, normal thing to do. And we don't necessarily examine how that's contingent to unpleasantness and neutral feelings. And when we feel an unpleasant sensation or a neutral sensation, there's usually an urge to change it, to feel like something is maybe wrong or boring, something like that.

[28:37]

don't necessarily notice how contingent that is to our preference of what's pleasant. So according to Buddhism, just observation, training the mind to notice these feelings and how they arise and pass away is part of transformation. I do remember when I had an experience of... I've mentioned it before, there used to be a motorcycle, what do you call it, sales place down the street. And so people would test the motorcycles up and down Page Street and Laguna, very loud. And during Sashin, that was pretty intrusive, you know. So I thought, okay, it's just a sound. Why am I getting so worked up? So I just kept listening, and that's... I started listening to all the sounds around me, and it shifted. It did become just a sound, which is hard to describe.

[29:43]

But imagine no longer being irritated, you know, and having that sort of pass away. The third foundation of mindfulness is contemplation of the mind or consciousness. And this consciousness is bare awareness. I mean, the thing about Buddhist teachings is that they sort of take you down to the most basic level of experience. And this is applied in relation to the mental factors such as greed, hatred, and delusion. And there are different types of consciousness, but the mindfulness instruction is to be aware of when... For instance, one is angry, sleepy, joyful, distracted, and so on, and to note that state. And then just as with the breath, how it arises and passes away, and one becomes aware of the causes and conditions and types of clinging and aversion related to all these various states.

[30:54]

So the fourth foundation of mindfulness, which is the one I was... focusing on is contemplation of the dharmas. So after you've done all those, the first three, you've contemplated the body and the breath, sensations and consciousness. These shift to actual sort of teachings. And in the... For the fourth foundation, these are the five hindrances, the five aggregates, the six sense fears, the seven awakening factors, and the four noble truths. And I'm actually not going to tell you what those are because I know you can look them up and that some of you have heard of them and worked with them. And one of the ones I will talk about is the four noble truths.

[31:56]

So, As that experience, you know, as I said, of the breath and posture, sensations, there's a deeper sense of the mind or thought tends to arise. And it's sort of like, okay, what does all this mean? And how do I live my life as it arises and passes away? And so there's 21 contemplations outlined in the four foundations of mindfulness. And for all of these, the attention is referred to as noticing or making clear. And with the fourth foundation, the requirement shifts to a kind of application or critical thinking about the teachings. What do you do with them? How do you know whether you understand them? How do you come to an understanding of them? And in his commentary on the four foundations, venerable Anilayo, who said,

[32:58]

who wrote a wonderful book about that, suggests that the first three establish qualities conducive to equanimity and that a temporal progression towards realization could form the key aspect of contemplation of dharmas. So temporal progression means you develop skills and methods. Based on a sufficient degree of mental stability through overcoming the hindrances, contemplation of dharmas proceeds to an analysis of subjective personality in terms of the five aggregates and to an analysis of the relation between subjective personality and the outer world in terms of the six sense spheres. These two analyses form a convenient basis for developing the awakening factors whose successful establishment constitutes a necessary condition for awakening.

[34:09]

To awaken is to fully understand the four noble truths as they really are, this being the final exercise among the contemplations of dharmas and the successful... culmination of Satipatthana practice. Yeah, right. I mean, you know, you hear that, you read it, and the how of mindfulness can seem very esoteric and sort of even annoyingly vague. And that's from the very first instruction to take the meditation posture. And yet often, and I felt this, and others have said they felt this, that first thing, sitting down in meditation, has felt like coming home. And in Buddhist terms, this could be called stopping. And I think that can feel like a relief or a return. And yet to stop repeatedly becomes more complex, more intentional.

[35:15]

And essentially, it's a skill that develops through being given attention. And I think Sashin, or even a period of meditation or retreat, allows for the spaciousness necessary for that attention. As you settle into the repetition and rhythm of repeated meditation in the postures and activities that involve sitting, standing, walking, and lying down, and noticing the arising and passing of sensations and states of mind, a deeper consideration of reality can be possible. You know, understanding, as Anilayo said, of things as they really are, and Suzuki Roshi used to say, things as it is. And I think this is a disorienting perspective in our normal everyday life, but it gets less so.

[36:17]

And one of the qualities that is not often referred to explicitly is something I've spoken about before and I call poignancy. And that includes kind of in the midst of all this effort and this intention and these instructions, the sort of pathos of our human nature and a realization of the unresolvability of this human condition. In his philosophy, Jacques Derrida uses this term, difference. to indicate this kind of poignancy. And I think and believe that all people engaged in philosophical thinking and spiritual practice have to deal with it at some point in their examination of how to understand the meaning of one's life in relationship to all other things. The philosopher and novelist Iris Murdoch concluded that

[37:22]

philosophical concern involved ethics, and that was about love. Love is the extremely difficult realization that something other than oneself is real. Love, and so art and morals, is the discovery of reality. And I think one of the aspects of this is self-examination that sort of reveals our contradictory attitudes and impulses and our self-righteousness and our absurdity as well as all of our caring about the world and so on. So Anelayo refers to an analysis of the relationship between subjective personality and the outer world, sort of matter-of-factly. Yet even if you think of this sort of esoterically, it will bring up some somewhat uncomfortable as well as wonderful insights.

[38:23]

And I think, for instance, when you deeply study the four foundations of mindfulness, but particularly the four noble truths, it reveals that the pathos of things is not in the first noble truth, which is referred to as suffering, but in the fourth, the eightfold path that... requires us to examine the world and our life through a set of restrictions. That is, right understanding, right intent, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration. So this requirement is physical, psychological, and practical. And it's always tempting to engage in things that say right from a perspective of what I think is right or that I have taken these on and embodied them and pointing to other shortcomings, but also by not noticing how we contribute, how one contributes to others' behavior.

[39:42]

and interpretations, and they to one's own, and the vitality and unresolvability of that interaction. So one philosophical perspective is based in the method of Socrates, and it's that wondering is an experience which is characteristic of a philosopher. This is where philosophy begins and nowhere else in wondering. And there's the definition of the word philosophy, love of wisdom or learning. And this can seem elitist and applied in a very elitist way, just as Buddhism and Zen can be. And yet we all think about our lives and come up with ideologies that are both limited and inclusive. And they're informed by...

[40:43]

complacency, hope, our personal suffering, suffering of others that we perceive, our developed perspectives, our attention to the world, our lack of attention, our experience, and so on. And in the midst of all that, there can be these little windows or openings for attention or inquiry. And the question I've always had is how this can be enjoyable rather than seem burdensome or even sort of boring and not applicable or something like that. And not in the sense so much of pleasure as in the sense of meaning and energy and understanding. And in spiritual practice of Buddhism, attention and inquiry are directed towards transformation, yet there's no one who can definitively describe or confirm it in a way that you would know, oh, now I'm there.

[41:59]

And as with philosophy, we're kind of swimming alone and with others and with everyone and everything else and the midst of the kind of wonder and confusion of meaning and purpose. As an example from history, I'm particularly interested, became interested in the medieval period because during that time there were so many wars that women ended up having to do a lot of the taking care of... taking care of estates and castles and all that kind of stuff, and doing work that they would normally be unusual for women, for instance. And so as I have sort of looked at that period, and it's not the only one I am interested in, but I started these odd little things would come up, and one of them was a discovery of this group of women called the Beguines,

[43:09]

And they were active in Europe between the 13th and 15th centuries. They were a lay religious movement, and it involved single women who owned property or businesses, and some of them who worked in those businesses or in other businesses, assistance to bakers and in sculpture, and there were scriptoriums where women worked. copying manuscripts and that sort of thing. So these Beguines lived together in small households and larger communities, and they shared expenses and duties, and many of them also supported and were supported by their extended families. And in Germany, Meister Eckhart lectured to and discussed theology with women in Beguinages, And in Paris, many Beguines owned, ran, and worked in businesses that were associated with the silk trade.

[44:15]

So a woman who owned a business, her community, her Beguine community, was often people who worked for her. And the Paris communities were supported by the pious mid-13th century French king Louis IX, and also... by theologians and scholars who were establishing the institution that's now called the Sorbonne. And the Beguines were ridiculed and persecuted, and yet there was a sense that their way of life, which involved informer vows of chastity and community service, exposed them to the temptations of the world... as well as the endurance of mockery and humiliation that were essential markers of a truly religious life. So these theologians and scholars were just so interested in them and in their interest in theology and religion.

[45:26]

and those sort of things. So a lot of these spiritual teachers and professors, we'd call them now, visited the Beginages, and they provided them with religious and philosophical literature, and the Beginages often had libraries. And they enjoyed organizing and attending these sermons and lectures and discussions, and they studied together on their own. And this is in the midst, of course, of their going to work and running their businesses and doing all those other things. And one of the tragedies, actually, of the Paris Beguines was the trial and execution by burning at the stake of the Beguine Marguerite Poirot in 1310 for publishing her book, The Mirror of Simple Souls. And... You know, the Catholic Church eventually dissolved the Beguine movement in all of Europe, and often in that process appropriated the property and possessions of Beguines.

[46:35]

One Beguinage was used to establish a convent in Paris. So in my experience and study... We say, oh, here's all these instructions, and here's these things you should study, and there's all this going on. But they have an impact and an effect. And what I think happens is when people start to study deeply and start to ask questions, institutions often become uncomfortable. And there's also a kind of an anti-intellectualism that's often associated with spiritual practice. But also, oddly enough, it's part of educational institutions as well. Which kind of questions are appropriate? What kind of, what do you call it, investigation is approved?

[47:38]

So... I think one of the reluctances to take up sort of studying or intellectual, whatever you want to call it, is this sense of that one will be kind of marginalized or, there's better words for it, not respected or considered to be a snob or whatever. So I think that... We question ourselves. We apply our own anti-intellectualism sometimes to studying these deeper aspects of Buddhism. And, you know, sometimes there is a snobbishness, a kind of a, it's almost like a self-defense of people who take a more scholarly interest. But there are compensations. And I think particularly they are in developing one's practice experience.

[48:40]

So, in Philosophy of the Buddha, Christopher W. Gallens proposes, the Buddha offered his teaching to all human beings, and he invited us all to reflect on what he taught and to learn from it. His teaching spread to societies such as China and Japan that were substantially different from his own. We accord the Buddha... the highest tribute by accepting his invitation to seriously assess his teaching. By seeking to learn from the Buddha, we are not trying to tell others what they should believe. We are trying to ascertain what we should believe. So I think that trying to ascertain what we should believe is a philosophical task, not so much about what to think or believe, but how. to think about Buddhist teachings and practices, and whether or how they can be applied in a meaningful way.

[49:45]

So many years ago, after I had been at Zen Center for about six or seven years, I was the Tenzo here, actually, and what I did for two years is I did the Sishin at City Center as the Tenzo, and then I went to Green Gulch and sat. the sishin there. And the first time I did that, during that whole sishin, I never had any pain or discomfort. And it was so miraculous, I just, I didn't know what to think. What does it mean? You know, should I be feeling pain? Should I make myself change my posture so it would be harder or something? But I never did really figure it out. And I knew some of the conditions, maybe because I had just sort of done a sushi in the kitchen, which has its impact.

[50:52]

I don't know. But what I did find was that It sort of informed my meditation and the sishins I sat afterwards by a kind of confidence. It's not like I expected to never feel any pain or discomfort in sishin or meditation, but something deeper about patience and expectation. And in a way, the way I ended up applying it was that I considered, you know, each period, meditation to be approached as though it was the first and the last. This is the only time I have. This is it. And to respect my body and mind as being capable and to keep a sort of sense of humor and perspective. It was only one week out of my number of years times 52 weeks a year and at that time of that

[51:58]

In particular, Sashin, that was over 2,000 weeks. So every period of meditation is this opportunity to expand one's experience of and integration with the world as it is. And the four foundations of mindfulness provide these basic tools and suggestions, which seem very simple, and they are very straightforward. But... This includes the inquiry into our intentions and our commitment through examining the teachings or dharmas and whatever happens, enjoying the process as it unfolds. Thank you very much. And if there are questions or comments, we have some time for that. And Kay has the... Thank you, Wendy.

[53:13]

That was a lot. I'll be looking up the begins. No question about it. You said something I didn't quite understand, though, and that is that the pathos in Buddhism is in the Fourth Noble Truth. I would think that it's in the First and the Third, argued that pathos is in suffering and the end of suffering. The Fourth Noble Truth is sort of this descriptive... technical, in comparison anyway, technical instructions. So could you just say a little bit more? I know you tried to explain it, but it wasn't quite enough for me. Well, what I mean by pathos or poignancy is that it's this kind of realization of how it's unresolvable that this is the human condition. And the way you know that... It's not so much from your suffering because you keep thinking you can fix that, right?

[54:17]

The First Noble Truth, one of the reasons we stay in that samsaric process is because we think we can fix it. But when you get to the Fourth Noble Truth and you have to take on all of those rites, you realize this kind of poignancy of the unresolvability and that there's also vitality in that. It means that you don't sort of get to some place where you can look at the world and judge it. What you actually do is you see things as they are. That's poignant, you know? So that's, does that make sense? Thank you. Thank you.

[55:28]

Really satisfying lecture. I was wondering if you could comment again on the concept from Derrida that stood out to me. Well, I included that because I was hoping to encourage people to examine philosophy. And he developed his philosophy over time. And if you know something about his biography, you get some hints as to why poignancy would be part of his philosophy. So I would say he called it difference, but in French, the word difference is pronounced as though there's a kind of an A sound, but he actually put an A at the end. So he was trying to touch on something a little beyond. And it's that poignancy, that sense of, oh, you know, you can do all this philosophical examination.

[56:34]

You can examine your life. You can look at politics. You can look at how you relate to your colleagues and your families and all this stuff. But there's this place where it doesn't, it's not, you can't say you've gotten somewhere. You can't actually pronounce a truth that applies. So does that... Yeah, thank you very much. Yes. So we have a question in the chat. How do you get out of fight or flight when... it all feels like it's collapsing, and how do we sit in a way with our suffering and not feel it's all catastrophic? Well, one thing is to take it all seriously, that it is a fight-or-flight situation, if I understand your question correctly.

[57:43]

The... purpose of all of these instructions and like in the four foundations is you come back to your breath and you come back to these very very basic levels of existence like the five skandhas you know form feelings perceptions formation and consciousness i mean those are the very basic description of a person's personality so you come back to those and and come back to those. And the function of that is to de-dramatize. It doesn't mean that things are not wonderful and horrible, but since they're happening to everybody and everywhere, and even in tiny things as well as giant things, oh, it's not solvable. Therefore...

[58:45]

I can just take a moment and relax. And I don't know if that was an answer that was... Is there another response from the person? No, it's just in the chat. Maybe they'll reply with another message. Okay, if they say something else, let me know. Thank you so much for your talk. I'm curious about what you were saying about anti-intellectualism in Zen and in academic institutions and other institutions and about how we can not know in a sophisticated way that is not anti-intellectual.

[59:47]

Like, what's an intelligent not knowing and what's an anti-intellectual not knowing? And how can we use our intellectual energies in service of our study and inquiry in the Dharma without becoming arrogant, smarty-pants know-it-alls? How do we become intelligent not-knowers while using our brains? Well, it's partly a dilemma, but I think a lot of... Dogen's saying intelligence or lack of it does not matter. So when you say it does not matter, what he's saying is you do all this, you apply it and everything, but that doesn't mean you're going to get something any more than anyone else, right? So you're not applying it towards a particular ideology or particular goal. that you already have decided on what it's going to be.

[60:51]

And I think that's where anti-intellectualism comes in, is that there's this way we want there to be an answer or a truth or a goal, something that can sort of be blanketed over everything, a particular understanding of Zen, a particular understanding of the philosophy of... aristotle or something like that or interpretation but what into this sort of applying of the intellect does it constantly deconstructs our conclusions and that keeps them fresh it doesn't negate them to always be fresh you know to keep asking and then you sort of get gloomy for a while and you don't want to do it and then the freshness comes back again when you say, oh yeah, this is what this deconstruction does. It refreshes. It doesn't destroy. Thank you.

[62:05]

Well, if there's no more questions, then we'll end with our closing chat. I wish I had made me think I had asked I had the truth to put up for me and make me think I had my best. Whether it was my children or group of men, I would have been taught my book, but I would have been what was displayed. Be it in me, it's all that I remember the list. I have no idea why I should not choose to say, . . .

[63:11]

realized my toy was asleep, so... Good morning.

[65:03]

I'm so glad that you all are here. As Wendy mentioned, this temple is on the precipice of intensive week-long retreat, our Rohatsu Sishin. And so for that reason, we will not have a Dharma Talk on Wednesday night of this coming week. We will the coming Saturday, although we'll still be kind of ending with our retreat. There'll be no tea and cookies and no Q&A. It'll just be the Dharma Talk the following Saturday, and Paul Haller will be giving that talk. With the temple in Sashin this next week, we'll still have the 5.40 a.m. period of Zazen and the 5.40 p.m. period open to the public, so you're welcome to come. The zenda will be rather full, but you're welcome to check in with me. I can assign you a seat that's available, otherwise you can sit in the gaitan.

[66:05]

And then, yeah, next Saturday, the 9.25 period of zazen is open, as well as the Dharma talk. I want to mention that after Sashin, in December, from the 12th through the 22nd, we will have a period of packing and preparation for the renovations that are happening in this building. And we're looking for volunteers to come in that 10-day period and help out with moving and cleaning and all the various things that are happening there. I believe there may be a sign-up sheet actually in the hallway on a clipboard. There is... And also, there's more information about this on the website, on the calendar. And I believe there it says to email Brent Haas if you... Also, Ellen.

[67:07]

Ellen instead. And so, actually, if you're interested and you're here today, you can come see Ellen to inquire about that. And, yeah, there's shifts each day starting at 9 a.m. or 1.30 p.m., although it's flexible and lunch is included. On December 20th, we will have pretty much the final public ceremony event in this part of the building before it closes for renovation. The zendo will continue to be open and we'll still have... essentially all of our regular programs will just be moved down there. But up here on the 20th, we're having winter solstice and also kind of a closing ceremony of the first, second, and third floors of this building. So please come and join us for that. It'll be in the evening on the 20th. It'll be a last chance to kind of be in this space and be with others in Sangha.

[68:12]

Lastly, If you come here and appreciate the San Francisco Zen Center or you're attending online and you'd like to support what happens here, please consider making a donation. You can do so on our website. We also have a donation box in the lobby. It is greatly appreciated. So today we unfortunately do not have tea and cookies. You're welcome to mill about, though, and socialize with each other. Is there an announcement from Urban Gate Sangha today? Over here. On Saturday mornings, a group of us who do not live in the temple come to the Zen Center and we're part of the Urban Gate Sangha where we... Meet at 8.50, and then we engage in a number of the temple functions in particular.

[69:18]

You probably heard the bells ringing and people hitting a wooden drum. We learn how to do those things and participate. So if you're interested in deepening your practice and participating, you're welcome to sign up on this sheet or just show up on a Saturday morning at 8.50. And we also afterwards meet with a teacher. Usually the... head of practice, Tim, and we discuss various things from the Dharma talk to other things going on. So we hope you join us. So thank you all again for being here. If you're able, the chairs can go back to the dining room and Christians can go back on the racks and have a great afternoon.

[70:02]

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