This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. So good evening, everyone. Welcome to San Francisco Zen Center. My name is Kyoshin Wendy Lewis. And this evening I'm going to talk about the bodhisattva archetype and the ways we interpret it. So for the most part, the concept of a bodhisattva is something we project. We imagine it. We create it out of our own idealism. So the bodhisattva has a future. or aspirational quality. So conventionally, we identify bodhisattvas as people who do things that we approve or agree with.

[01:10]

And not bodhisattva activity is done by people we don't agree with or don't approve of. And that's very human and reasonable. You know, we want things to go well in our perception of things. And for our own purpose. survival and happiness. And at the same time I've noticed funny little things about spirituality and spiritual communities and those of us who have these ideals. One thing is that spiritual leaders almost always have a little bevy of servants taking care of them. They take care of their food which often includes very special diets. There was a teacher down at Tassajara and his assistant was always in the kitchen making juice and doing all these things. And not that the person didn't need it. But the servants, they take care of clothes, you know, travel plans, all these things.

[02:14]

You hardly ever hear anything about them or see them. They're kind of somewhere in the background and maybe they show up in a photo or something like that. But mostly we never know anything about them. So, you know, what does it take to support a spiritual teacher or spiritual leader? And is there any sort of disjunct there or something interesting, curious about that? And we often, you know, think of these servants as heroes or heroines, you know, supporting the great teacher. And, you know, and that may or may not support that person's values or their perceptions. So they don't really have a voice in many ways. And we know that historically Buddhism is very misogynistic.

[03:14]

Women are always considered lesser. In fact, a lot of monks are not allowed to touch women or be close to them. And wherever Buddhism has found a place, you know, basically the prejudices and privileges of that culture are adopted into the way that Buddhism is understood and interpreted and practiced. No surprises, you know. What is familiar to us? How do we adopt these traditions? And those prejudices and the privilege of a particular society or culture are so familiar and so natural or ingrained that it's nearly impossible to see them or to question how they work. And then as you add in power, prestige, money, all those kinds of things,

[04:25]

that seeing and questioning moves further into the background. And what moves forward is ideology, creating, you know, a special face in a certain way. So the bodhisattva, as the ideal, is often presented as somebody who's a little better than everyone else, more evolved, more compassionate, and more capable. So the way this view of the bodhisattva, what it does is it reflects the values of the person who's projecting those ideals. And that's, again, no surprise. But how do we take that on as something to reflect on? How are we creating these things outside ourselves and projecting them outside ourselves?

[05:27]

So I think that maybe one of our deepest struggles with the bodhisattva archetype may be, you know, a dualistic perception that places ourself in the position of describing or defining what a bodhisattva is. At the same time, one of the most compelling aspects of Buddhist teachings is that they throw us right into the middle of that struggle of seeing what we project and seeing who we are at the same time. They're based in a deconstructive attitude to selfhood. One way to understand ourselves is to see what we project out and you know, how that includes and doesn't include ourself and others. So the unravelingness is considered to be so difficult that very few people will begin it and very few will continue.

[06:47]

It's really... disorienting and scary and all kinds of things. And at the same time, it has this wonderful quality of developmental quality and transformative aspect to it. So, again, how could we struggle with that? That there's this wonderful aspect to it and there's also this very scary part. So as we study these six perfections that we're studying, we've now covered the first three, which is generosity, morality, and patience or tolerance. And we're going to move into the next three. But as we investigate and study them, how do we find them both encouraging and conducive

[07:48]

to this deconstruction of our character? How can they be both? And that very possibility of bodhisattva-hood or Buddhahood is fraught with duality. And this is in a lot of the teachings. For instance, the Diamond Sutra, which is partly based in examining the six perfections, says, and yet although innumerable beings have thus been led to nirvana, no being at all has been led to nirvana. If in a bodhisattva the notion of a being should take place, she could not be called a bodhi being. So what's partly frightening about this is that bodhisattva activity and intention is actually necessarily beyond the bodhisattva's control or preferences.

[09:02]

So this is what this deconstructive process is doing. And I think that any of us who have been teachers or worked in... you know, as chaplains or social workers or any kind of helping professions, as they're called. We know that, you know, our teaching is kind of based in our prejudices. Like we think we, you know, we have this idea of what a person needs, needs to know, and so on, and that becomes part of what we're doing. So that can both be helpful and hindering. And so... you know, we have to work on our teaching and our helping skills to be more able to be helpful and less hindering. So, you know, do we know what others need? Do we know what we need? Do we know how to get those things, provide those things?

[10:06]

So, The conundrums and these definitions of the bodhisattva are examined by Paul Williams in Mahayana Buddhism, the doctrinal foundations. It is frequently said in textbooks that the compassion of the bodhisattva is so great that they postpone nirvana in order to place all other sentient beings in nirvana first. Such a teaching, however, appears to be incoherent and contains a claim that somehow a Buddha must be deficient in compassion when compared with a bodhisattva. We have the absurd spectacle of a series of bodhisattvas each trying to hurry the others into nirvana in order to preserve his or her vow. Moreover, If sentient beings are infinite, no bodhisattva could ever attain Buddhahood.

[11:20]

So this is a reflection on the definition of bodhisattva that we sort of understand and work with here. And that is the bodhisattva dedicated to enlightening other beings while postponing their own enlightenment. So it's both inspiring and a little convoluted. Like... And who's the bodhisattva who has this idea even, this kind of duality there? And we can also, you know, take this idea of what a bodhisattva is and use it to promote our personal view of reality and of what is good. And we can also use it to justify the status quo. and sort of limit the possibility of examining its contradictions and its dualities. Now, see, I find this kind of thinking fun.

[12:25]

So I hope some of you do, too. How do we unravel these presumptions that we have that are actually helpful and yet limited? So Williams continues... In Tibetan practice, the merit from virtuous deeds is always directed towards obtaining full Buddhahood in order to be able to help beings most effectively. There is never any mention of really postponing or turning back from Buddhahood. Otherwise, any bodhisattva who did become a Buddha would be presumably either deficient in compassion or have broken their vow. That really struck me. So... So just in case we are tempted to complacency about bodhisattva vows and activities, we can remember that complacency is based in our preferences and ideologies and our hopes of clinging to conventionality.

[13:41]

And we also can look at how different teachings look at this differently. In one of my classes in the theology program, there was one of the students said that his father was very worried about him applying this historical critical thinking and evaluation to the Bible, because he was afraid it would undermine his faith. Ooh, that's scary. Light bulbs burn out. Anyway, and so the professor had been a priest for like over 50 years, and he said, actually, this way of looking at biblical teachings and interpretations usually strengthened people's faith. And I think what that means is it gives it vitality to just keep turning something and turning something, not just to understand it, but to see its beauty and its limitations and the inspiration and the confusion that can be part of it.

[15:03]

And this turning sort of allows us to look at Why we practice as Buddhists or study Buddhism and for whom and to what end? What is our intention? So the third perfection that we were just sort of finished studying or examining is Tolerance includes the capacity to tolerate more comprehensive visions of reality that undermine long-standing habits of mental insecurity. So the third perfection tolerance includes the capacity to tolerate more comprehensive visions of reality that undermine long-standing habits of mental insecurity.

[16:11]

So our conventional interpretations or projections of bodhisattvas kind of narrow in on our habits of thinking and our habits of idealism. And also how we perceive ourselves and others. So, you know, sort of jokingly and encouragingly, Zen Center is described as a training ground for bodhisattvas. And that is true. And I do think that at the heart that is what is happening. And yet, you know, because we're ordinary people, and I mean that in a very deeply grateful way, there is favoritism. There is a kind of like, you know, some people seem to, just because of who they're associated with, they are allowed, you know, more perks, more special exceptions, and so on.

[17:34]

And this isn't surprising, but this is what's going on also in a Bodhisattva training camp, right? Where, you know, our kind of our conventional sort of idea of taking care of those who are like us or supporting those who flatter us. You know, all those kinds of things. Very normal human things. So I'm not presenting this as any sort of criticism. It's just a query. Not just about how things are run, but how we would do it. You know, what would we do if we were in that position? How would we kind of treat people who we... favored and did not so this perfection of tolerance which is kind of the you know it's very hard work the first three perfections I remember saying in one of my talks now I've

[18:48]

gotten them all sort of jumbled together in a certain way, that studying the six perfections takes me apart and puts me back together again. And I think the first three are the taking apart level. Because the perfection of tolerance challenges our perception of ourself and proposes this non-duality. And Dale Wright describes this as frightening because it's easier to continue these long-standing, unexamined dualities that are applied to define who is enlightened and who is a bodhisattva. And this includes our own self-centered and self-promoting ideas. So how do we question this? according to right, without faith in the Dharma and the courage that that faith supports, we're unable to move beyond an ideal of personal and projected non-selfishness, quote unquote, into the realm of no self.

[20:11]

So the transformation that underlies the perception of no self or the getting beyond that fear, it's not about change in a conventional way, but it's more about coming to maturity. How do we come to maturity? In fact, that's one of the aspects of a bodhisattva, is bringing beings to maturity. And I think that when you describe a bodhisattva that way, you're saying that The bodhisattva is not a person. It's the activity of offering the dharma, of having the dharma just keep being available and turned and turned. So there's a koan in Gateless Barrier, case number 45. It's called Wuchu.

[21:11]

Who is that other? Wuchu said... Shakyamuni and Maitreya are servants of another. Tell me, who is that other? And Wu Man's comment, if you can see this other and distinguish them clearly, then it is like encountering your father at the crossroads. You will not need to ask somebody whether or not you're right. And the verse is, don't draw another's bow, don't ride another's horse, don't discuss another's habits, faults, sorry, don't discuss another's faults and don't explore another's affairs. I'll read it again. So first it's, Shakyamuni and Maitreya are servants of another. Tell me, who is that other?

[22:13]

If you can see this other and distinguish them clearly then it is like encountering your father at the crossroads. You will not need to ask somebody whether or not you're right. Don't draw another's bow. Don't ride another's horse. Don't discuss another's faults. Don't explore another's affairs. So the current Buddha Shakyamuni and the future Buddha Maitreya are impermanent And they're informed and limited by their temporal and projected realities and interpretations, just as we all are. And so they offer the teaching of enlightenment not to praise or judge themselves or others, but to serve enlightenment in the context of interdependence. So I think this struggling through teachings like the Six Perfections and the deconstructive process that they propose allows this way that our bodhisattva character can recognize potential, their own potential,

[23:42]

through self-understanding and this transformative maturity. And this is meeting your father at the crossroads. You see yourself clearly where you've come from and how that has carried you forward and how you find yourself where you are. And this becomes an undoing And that becomes a kind of a non-doing. And this is an extraordinary form of activity. This non-doing. And it goes through all of Zen teaching. Kind of goes around and around. That idea of non-doing, non-thinking. And the verse, you know, is... You are the one who struggles, makes mistakes, misperceives, has insights, and works through difficulty.

[24:48]

And this isn't through, you know, praising or denigrating yourself or imitating or judging others, riding someone else's horse and that sort of thing. But, you know, working always with difficulty What arises? I mean, this is repeated over and over again, but as you go through this deconstructive process, you kind of get it in your bones or your flesh or something. And we invite what is challenging and difficult out of curiosity and out of this... intention to extend our boundaries, the boundaries that limit our freedom. So I think there's...

[26:03]

a lot of doubt and uncertainty involved in taking the path that the Buddha proposed. You know, there's these fears of losing our status as we examine this idea of interdependence and no self. And we sort of are entering areas that are of thought and perception that are unfamiliar to us or uncomfortable. But we can say, you know, who is being served and how are we being served by these interpretations that we have and these efforts that we make. So now that we've worked through these first three deconstructive perfections, including, you know, this tolerance of the truth of no self, we can maybe experiment with releasing ourselves and others from this projected ideas of enlightenment and bodhisattva hood so that we can

[27:31]

open ourselves to the constructive aspects of the other three perfections, which are energy, meditation, and wisdom. So we go through this deconstructive process so that there's this kind of opening of freedom to work on the constructive aspect of the teaching. So, thank you very much. And I think we might have time for a couple of questions. Yes, May. you will prioritize the awakening of others before one's own awakening.

[28:49]

But then I hear the word Buddha used a lot in Zen, and it's not really clear to me how to define what a Buddha is in this tradition versus a Bodhisattva. Can you share a little about that? Well, I actually feel like, you know, quotes from Paul Williams say, well, you know, we struggle with this because if a bodhisattva is somebody who, you know, puts off their enlightenment for the sake of enlightening others first, then isn't there a contradiction there? Are they actually enlightened is one of the questions. So I don't think that there are clear definitions. of Buddha and Bodhisattva in the tradition that you can grab onto. There is the Buddha, and there is the future Buddha, and there are all those past Buddhas and all that kind of thing, but I could be wrong, but I don't think there's a graspable definition.

[30:02]

He does say that in Tibetan Buddhism you do become a Buddha, Have we ever met one? Would we know? And how are they confirmed? This was a big problem after the Buddha's death, for instance, because he was the one who was confirming arhats. So who was gonna do it after that? Were the arhats enlightened enough so that they could confirm? And I think this was actually, I'm suspecting that this was one of the ways the idea of the bodhisattva arose. that nobody could confirm the enlightenment, therefore you say, well, they're a bodhisattva. They can't be confirmed as a Buddha because there's no Buddha to confirm them. So I think that might be how some of this conundrum arose. Who's going to say? Can we say, somebody asked me if I'd ever met somebody, an enlightened person, and I said, you know,

[31:08]

I'm not sure because, I mean, wouldn't I have to be enlightened to know who they were, you know? So, yeah, it's kind of like that. Yes. I used the example of freedom. In other words, no one person can be free until all people are free. That sort of concept. And I sort of just maybe oversimplified and thought, oh, I see. You're saying you cannot in some sense reach total enlightenment when others are not awake. We all need to well there's also the thing where everybody's already enlightened so you know I think that it's a conundrum it is something we need to struggle with and I think that's very it gives vitality you know to not know exactly but it is yes but who knows

[32:35]

Once again, who's looking? Who's deciding? Because one of the things, you know, when we project these very sort of what we call positive qualities onto bodhisattvas, we don't allow sort of negative things to also be enlightening for us. You know, so as a person, as a person, we're not allowing, you know, somebody disagreeing with us to also be an enlightening activity. somebody to have different ideas than ours, different beliefs. And someone who does something that we would actually consider evil. What is that telling us about ourselves and about the world and so on and so forth? And our complicity and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You don't have to say they're a bodhisattva, you just say it. How is this changing me?

[33:36]

And how is mine? Yeah. So it's kind of like that. Yeah. Well, I do think that the concept of no self is scary because it seems a negation or a loss or something like that.

[34:50]

But what is ironic is that if you can tolerate that, it actually is freeing because it disintegrates so many boundaries and what is it? differences that actually are hindering to us. So that's, I think, all I can say about it now. Okay. Is there time for one more? Okay. Let's see. Go ahead. vocabulary that are present now?

[36:30]

You know, like you say someone's like a Bodhisattva versus a Buddha, like, I mean, that has been able now, right? It's like different than me, you know, when these teachings were first arisen. I was wondering if you, I mean, like, insider knowledge, like, would you say that? I'm not exactly sure how to answer your question, but I, you know, we're always in the realm of duality. We always are. And how to deconstruct that to kind of see that some things that we interpret as criticisms are just differentiations. I think it's very wonderful that Suzuki Roshi said, this is Hinayana teaching with a Mahayana mind. So that's how we approach our practice. Any more time for one more? One more. about what you see as a Buddhist equivalent to that second naivete, you know, like if we apply critical historical consciousness to Bodhisattva ideal, for example, what is, how do you see that shift, what we do and how that energizes, if you could sum it up in an image?

[38:38]

Well, I think what it does is it, takes that limitation of our projection and actually starts to listen instead to sort of see bodhisattva hood as something developmental and unlimited. Is that? And I'm not sure I'm actually answering your question, but I think it's like that. It's unending, is what it is, yeah. So it's always in process, so you're constantly... It's kind of like the Avatamsaka Sutra. It's like that. It's just endless. It's just names upon names and heavens upon heavens and that sort of thing.

[39:40]

But none of that is really happening. Right? That's... Well, see, that's... That's how I think the development happens. Okay. Thank you for laughing. Okay. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered at no cost and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[40:26]

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