This podcast is offered by San Francisco's Zen Center on the web at sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good evening, everybody. Everybody can hear me? Yes? Se escucha bien? Well, thank you so much for having me here for the second time. And I want to thank Lee Lip for inviting me. And if you can have a sip of water. It's warm in here. Must be the warmth of the Dharma. Or the hot seat. Or both. So today I will speak about... being time, and we'll make an effort to end not only in time, but on time.

[01:09]

So I have a watch here. So there's being time, where time is nothing but you, and you are nothing but time. And then there's being in time, and being on time. And no matter whether you are early or you are late, you are always in time if you are time. But if you're not time, then we need to be time by being on time. But it's also possible to be on time but not be time or in time. I know that in my family home, my stepfather always wanted to be on time. And if he was not on time, he got really upset. And it's easy to dismiss this as a form of neuroticism, but this whole notion of, for example, of civilized

[02:28]

so-called civilized Europe, where the trains always run on time, was based on the fact that every town had a different conception of time. And since only they had one track for trains, not two tracks, timing was a matter of life and death because the trains could collide. So the obsession with time can be a question of life and death. And my mother instead was always late, but she was always in time, doing one thing after the next without getting upset. But she was oblivious of other people's time. So the two of them and the two styles of time, being in time and being on time, were always arguing with each other about time and these two styles of time.

[03:31]

so being time includes being on time and also being in time so we have an intention to be on time and to pace ourselves and be considerate of other people's time but a schedule is not absolute and things change so you can't always be on time but you can always be in time or be time So before I go any further, I want to begin with a quote from Suzuki Roshi, from Senbain Beginner's Mind. So he says, when you practice zazen, there's no idea of time or space. You may say, we started sitting at a quarter to six in this room. Thus you have some idea of time, a quarter six, and some idea of space in this room.

[04:40]

So time and space are ideas, but good ones, good ideas. Just like based on our experience, we would not know that the Earth is turning. When we look at a sunset, We think that the sun is setting, although the sun disk is not really moving. So that the earth is turning is a good idea because it is what is actually happening. But we would not know it based on experience. Based on experience, we would think that the earth is not moving and that the sun is moving or that we are moving. So the earth is like a big clock and we're sitting still within this movement of the earth. So Suzuki Roshi continues, actually what you're doing, however, is just sitting and being aware of the universal activity.

[05:53]

That is all. This moment the swinging door is opening in one direction and the next moment the swinging door will be opening in the opposite direction. Moment after moment, each one of us repeats this activity. Here, there's no idea of time or space. Time and space are one. So this is what Einstein called time and space. It's one thing. You may say, I must do something this afternoon, but actually there's no this afternoon. We do things one after the other. That is all. There is no such time as this afternoon or one o'clock or two o'clock. At one o'clock you will eat your lunch. To eat lunch is itself one o'clock. You will be somewhere, but that place cannot be separated from one o'clock.

[06:54]

For someone who actually appreciates our life, they are the same. But when we become tired of our life, we may say, I shouldn't have come to this place. It may have been much better to have gone to some other place for lunch. This place is not so good. In your mind, you create an idea of place separate from an actual time. And then he continues further on. Dogen Senji said, time goes from present to past. This is absurd. But in our practice, sometimes it is true. Instead of time progressing from past to present, it goes backwards from present to past. So this is also how we relate to time in psychotherapy. The past is emerging now. The unconscious always appears in the present moment, not in the past.

[08:04]

We are still a child, and we are already an old person. This is happening simultaneously. So Suzuki Roshi says, when we experience this kind of truth, it means we have found the true meaning of time. Time constantly goes from past to present, and from present to future. This is true, but it's also true that time goes from future to present and from present to past. A Zen master once said, to go eastward one mile is to go westward one mile. This is vital freedom. We should acquire this kind of perfect freedom. So the future, the present, and the past are all arising now in no time.

[09:30]

So no time is the same as synchronic time or discontinuous time, which is the time of this moment. So when we are absorbed in this moment, We are unaware of time. There is no time. So we are time. And Zazen or Sashin is something that is happening or that we're making happen. And Suzuki Roshi says to be aware of the universal activity, that we need to be aware of universal activity rather than of the passing of time. So we have a schedule, and a schedule is a good idea, but we don't think about the schedule. It is better to be time rather than to be thinking about the schedule.

[10:41]

So universal activity is simply taking place moment to moment, and this is time. The earth is turning, atoms and light are pulsating, we are breathing, one breath at a time. So when we are conscious of the passing of time, then we're not time. Time is passing by, and we remain separate from it. We may feel bored. When we become conscious of time, of the passing of time, we get bored or anxious, or we want things to be different than what they are. And in this case, we are killing time rather than living it.

[11:43]

In sashin or sazen, when we have pain, we become conscious of the passing of time, and we want to move. But the more we move, the more conscious we become of the passing of time. So time runs more slowly for the person who's moving. And when we don't move, all of a sudden, the period is over. or the one day sitting, or the sashin is over. So the more we want to move, the more a moment will seem like an eternity, rather than be eternity. So in zazen, we have to be time. And that's the only way to get through sashin, is to be time, to become one with the

[12:54]

rather than to be aware or conscious of the passing of time. There are also cultural differences with regards to time. just like their gender differences, like in the example of my stepfather and my mother. And, you know, I also, with my partner, we have a similar kind of dynamic when we have to go somewhere. I'm more aware of being on time. And she says, relax, don't be so... Every time is the right time.

[13:56]

We'll be there in time, and whatever time we arrive will be the right time. So what I do is I just, I'm ready, I'm on time, I'm ready, and I just sit. So I'm ready, and I'll just be sitting here and breathing. And instead of getting upset and start arguing, you know, hurry up, you know, why are you always late, and this and that, I just sit. And if I get anxious or upset about not being on time, then I practice being time at that moment, or being in time. And just breathe one breath at a time. And then all of a sudden, She appears. She's ready. Okay, let's go. So, even though we try, I mean, it's important to be time, it's important to plan our time.

[15:17]

So that you have a series of discrete moments or things you have to do. And in order to be present in each moment, we have to plan time. Sometimes we think that to be in time is just to be spontaneous, whatever, but that's just sort of being pulled by what we feel like doing or not doing at a particular moment. So like for sitting for practice, we have to have a schedule. decide well what what's realistic what can we do and then move in time within the schedule instead of being spontaneous in the sense of i'll do it i'll sit when i feel like it oh i don't feel like it now or i feel like it now now it's now i'm in a good space so i'm going to sit or now in a i'm

[16:19]

I'm feeling anxious or depressed. I don't think I can do this now. So whether... So if we have the schedule, then it's easier to be present in each moment, regardless of what's happening at that moment. In... Latin culture sometimes are referred to as the mañana culture. You've heard that expression, mañana, do it tomorrow. In contrast to don't leap for tomorrow what you could do today. Or if you go to the countryside in Latin America and you ask for directions, they say, oh, just... just over that hill, just over the hill.

[17:20]

But over the hill is a very long distance, or it takes a lot of time. And we're not used to it because we're used to our notion of time and being able to plan. So we could say that Latin cultures live in infinite time, or they live in time rather than on time. but infinite time is not yet being time. And the West and maybe China and Japan are on-time cultures. But on-time is not necessarily being time. So being time has to include being in time and on time.

[18:23]

Some people say, or some reports say that in the Sotoshu in Japan, if you study a lot, then you have to spend less time at a Heiji. And if you don't study much, you have to spend more time in a Heiji. And in the US, this is different, because if you study a lot, then you have to sit for even longer. Since the intellect, I think here we, consider it more of a hindrance to practice so in the end to satisfy different cultures you end up sitting for a long time and studying for a long time and you still don't have anything so our hands are still open and empty-handed

[19:48]

so Dogen says that time doesn't flow the past is not gone and the future is already here he also says that the present moment is cut off from the past and the future but also includes the past and the future So cut off, no past, no future, but also the past and the future are arising right now. So he speaks of Nikon. Nikon is infinite time. So Nikon is the experience of this moment instead of the passing of time.

[20:58]

And he says that Nikon chews up or cuts off continuous time. There's continuous time and there's discontinuous time or synchronic time and diachronic time. These are two dimensions of time. And he says that discontinuous time or infinite time, what he calls Nikon, chews up continuous time or the arrow of time. The notion of time being going from past to present to future. Infinite time chews this sense of time up. And at the same time spits it out. So one form of time chews up and spits out the other form of time. That's the image that he gives us. he also says that makes an interesting statement he says infinite time is no more or less virtues virtues than a 13 billion year cycle so I think the universe is 13 supposedly now it's 13 billion years old so infinite time

[22:28]

is no more or less virtuous than a 13 billion year cycle and also that infinite time does not spit out being time or the universe because infinite time was incomplete or insufficient without the universe and when spitting out being time or the universe Infinite time is also not diminished. And he says that being time is the activity or the realization of infinite time. And we are this meeting place of being time and infinite time or no time. Infinite time is the same as no time. so Nikon is spit out for example as a schedule of discrete events or a series of identical moments as continuous practice so out of infinite time comes being time and at the same time Nikon or infinite time swallows

[23:58]

and transcends the practice schedule. So right now, this moment is infinite time. And though one calls it a passage or an indwelling, cut off from past and future. So we must, in this present moment, we have to be mindful of the past. So mindfulness also means recollection. So we don't suppress or repress the past. The past is happening now.

[24:59]

At the same time, we have to be awakened to the time that hasn't yet arrived. And Dogen says, the time of not arriving is already here. What does that mean? The time of not arriving is already here. So we already are what we could be. So there's a now beyond the idea of now.

[26:05]

or a presence beyond the present, or a present or a presence that is not part of the arrow of time. Because there's past, present, and future. The present moment is not this present that is part of past, present, and future. Dogen says this presence or present beyond the present idea of time or now is the assurance of future enlightenment that is already happening now. say that every location in space and every moment in time are events that are happening now.

[27:33]

Yet being time is different for each one of us. So everybody has personal time. So, because we're all moving and changing, our bodies are all here and we're sitting still in this moment, so this moment of infinite time might be the same for all of us, yet our bodies are all different and our minds are moving and this movement of our mind makes this moment in time flow differently for each one of us. So what we call time is the mu of this moment.

[28:45]

before we call it a present moment in the arrow of time. A second in time is already a second to a first. And a first is really zero or no time. So infinite time manifests in a second moment as hearing or not hearing. So when we hear, we hear the sound of infinite time in being time. So the sound of the bell, so before the talk there was

[29:49]

the sound of the bell, reminding us of time, the time of this moment in this lecture. But the sound of the bell reminds us of the unity of infinite time and being time. Do you have a question? Yes.

[30:51]

So we practice to manifest what we already are. So we already are time. But because we are removed from this time, we experience the passing of the flowing of time. When we are time, and we can just live our life moment to moment, then there is no time.

[32:35]

Just go from one activity to the next, and we can enjoy our life. And... We don't experience time as something oppressive that is happening too slowly. It's all happening in an instant. Yes? You said space, not space. So what does that mean space? One question. So space and time are not two things, right?

[33:42]

Space in the universe is the same as time. I mean, that's what physicists say nowadays, right? And I think that's the same thing that Suzuki Roshi is saying. When he says, so when you practice dasing, there's no idea of time or space. You may say we started sitting at a quarter to six in this room, thus you have some idea of time and some idea of space in this room. So we're sitting here, but this space includes all other spaces or other places. This place. You get the idea there's no time, but you don't get the idea of no space.

[35:05]

What is it? Sutra says that there are thousands of Buddhas on the head of a pin. how could there be thousands of Buddhas on the head of a pin where are all these Buddhas how can they all be existing in the same place in no space it's hard to explain so maybe we just It's, maybe it's good enough that we ask the question, what is no space? Or what is, everything is, because everything is connected, everything is happening at the same time in the same place.

[36:27]

There's no separation. or every other place is the same place. Is Chile different than the US? Is the US different than Israel or Iran? Yes, please. Well, to be able to live in each moment and not to feel separate

[37:37]

in space or time. Being in Berkeley, at the Berkeley Sense Center, is not different than being in a clinic in the mission. Same space. Sitting is not different than not sitting. Yes? So when you say that

[38:41]

I wonder what you might say a little bit more about that because it seems it could be considered as a sort of Japanistic viewpoint. How would you say it deterministic? things are already decided. If they're in a performant, it must mean that they are already decided now the conditions must arise in particular. As distinct from maybe the potentiality of conditions. Right. But, right, but, Enlightenment is our nature, it's not something that we acquire.

[39:43]

So it's already with us, and because it is with us, then we practice. So is... The first time that I sat in Paris at the Paris Endo of Taizen Deshimaru Roshi, the experience of sitting is no different than the experience of sitting now. It's already now.

[40:47]

The moment of not arriving is already here. So even though tomorrow's Zazen hasn't arrived, it is already here. Somebody else had raised their hand. Yes. I would like to ask this. Understanding the nature of space-time will let people impact how we understand the nature of truth. Did you have some? What did you think about that? Well, I think it will, absolutely, because it's like every action has its own inevitability.

[41:59]

While there is choice, we don't need to hang out with it because it's inevitable. That we will choose one thing or another? Well, I mean, if you continue this practice, then there's something that is inevitable if you choose to take up the practice. Is that what you mean?

[43:22]

When we're completely absorbed in what we're doing, then there is no time. All of a sudden, an hour or two went by, or a whole day went by. Or all of a sudden, the sheen is over. That's a direct experience, isn't it? The future being now? So... So when we practice, we don't practice to attain something in the future.

[44:37]

We realize the future now. for me is the idea of infinite pasts and infinite futures all happening simultaneously now, which would eliminate the deterministic question that, because there are infinite deterministic outcomes, and they are all, which we call the future, and they are all happening now.

[45:44]

Right. But the past and the future are determining us, but we're also determining it. We're determining the past. And the future. Because they're all happening now. Because they're all happening now. So it's determining us, but we're also determining it. It's creating us and we're creating it. We're creating simultaneously. that I think applies to space. Years ago, when I was given a large problem, I was very interested in framing space. I wasn't so interested in the actual threads. I was more interested in how the threads would be the case, space. And I came across the difficulty of it. What is being encased?

[46:46]

And where is this space? And space in relationship to this, or the room, or what the room is. It's like the idea that there were, that everything wasn't always moving all the time. And my view was moving. was according to my, now I would call it dark position. And it still fascinates me when I deal with small things and I tear apart threads. Because there's a relationship to everything moving and taking different forms. So we call this a form and we call this space. Conventionally, that's what we do. But as I see it in reality, it's just movement.

[47:52]

It's movement. There is no time. There is no space. Except what rises in a relationship. And I don't know, you know, I still find this, which is very fascinating to me. Or I hear you speak. Sometimes I follow the voice of sound. And other times it's like, I drifted. Where did I drift? I just didn't come back. And so it's like everything is moving. So the drifting is what makes us different. and what creates variety and time.

[48:54]

So shall we? And I'm not sure if we're ending on time or in time. But this is it. Thank you very much. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma Talks are offered free of charge and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, please visit sfcc.org and click Giving. May we all fully enjoy the Dharma.

[49:59]

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