I don't have a sign yet. Yeah, you can have it when you talk. When you hear it.

[01:06]

Yeah, so long as you talk, I won't vote for you. Keep it, that's a better person. This is Coquedera. The next is Gyoanji. The next is Coquedera. The next is Coquedera. The next is Coquedera. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

[02:39]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, maybe you should put it on. I'll put it on then. You have to remind me to give it back to you. I'll speak later. Is that easier? She goes first. It's okay. I'll stand right here. The camera's right there, so this will be good. We'll give another minute. Shall we check the microphone? Let me ask Dan if he wants to do a sound check. Do you want to do a sound check on the microphones? Oh, I already did. Say hello to Ed Satterson. I am not. Say hello to Ed Satterson. Dan said he did a sound check on the microphones already, so they should be okay.

[03:54]

Okay. Well, good evening, everyone. So it's 7.30, so we'll go ahead and start, because in Zen we try to start on time. And I want to welcome you all. My name, for those of you who might not know me, is Tenzin David Zimmerman. I'm the Central Abbot of San Francisco Zen Center. And it's a joy to be here. Can you hear? Is this being microphoned? Yeah, there. It's up a little higher. Okay. Is this recording or microphoning? Yes. Only for the online. So we have to speak loudly. We have to speak loudly.

[05:00]

So, okay. Good to know. So it's a great pleasure to be able to have both Sensei Kazanahashi here and Mutue Nagase with us tonight and share their learnings, your process, as well as your teachings that came from your recent project. I don't have the book. If you hold it up for me, be able to show it. Gardens of Awakening, a guide to aesthetics, history, and spirituality of Kyoto Zen landscapes. And the photographs are by Mitsue. And so that's the object of the... exhibition that you see here, and they'll say a little bit more about those. And this exhibition we'll go through tomorrow afternoon. And then the text by Kaz. And for those of you who would be interested in purchasing a book after the event, in the back, Denise, maybe you'll stand. There's Denise. Denise will be making the books available, and both Kaz and Mutsue will be signing the books, so you have a chance to get signed copies to take with you.

[06:05]

And before we go further, I'd like to just offer very brief introductions to both of our presenters this evening. Mitsui Nagase was born and raised in Japan and spent some of her adult years in Vancouver, New York, and California. We actually met each other at Tassahara. and where she began her Zen practice. And then later, after meeting Kaz, she decided to deepen her practice at Upaya Zen Center, and where she lived for over a year and received Jukai, the precepts, Bodhisattva precepts, from Roshi John Halifax. And Mitsue's Dharma name is Hoetsu, Joy of Dharma. It's a beautiful name, Joy of Dharma. And she presently resides in Japan on the island of Honshu on the northwest side. And I believe she'll speak a little bit more about that. And she is preparing herself to serve as a bridge between Japan and the west.

[07:07]

So thank you again. It's a joy to have you back here visiting once more. Kazuake Tanahashi, who we all know as Kaz, has been a warm and a very important presence for many, many years at all three temples of San Francisco Zen Center. Kaz met Suzuki Roshi in 1964. So I was only a year old in 1964. So that was just a little while ago, not too long ago. And he is an accomplished Japanese calligrapher, a Zen teacher, and a prolific author, and translator of Buddhist texts from Japanese and Chinese to English, and mostly the various works of Dogen. He has co-edited and contributed to various Zen Buddhist texts with other Zen teachers, and then also an environmentalist and a peace worker. Eight months ago, his birthday... uh might have deserved especially warm celebration we had a particular celebration for him at green gulch farm where he turned 90 years old so still very much a spring chicken as of october 4th so welcome cause it's such a joy to have you back once more and so without further ado i want to welcome you all to this nourishing time together with these two wonderful people

[08:32]

The thought was to try to wrap this up around 8.10. And so there's a bit of time to mingle and also have the book signed and to continue some informal conversation. But let's just see how it unfolds. So thank you again all for being here and celebrating these two wonderful artists. So thank you both. So yeah, thank you, David, for the full introduction. And then it's such an honor for me to be here at the San Francisco Zen Center, where I started my Zen practice after living in New York. It really changed my life. You know, each meeting, you know, I won't be here. And especially with Kaz's inspiration and guidance over years, you know, I'm very stunned that I'm here with this beautiful damn book and with this photographs on the wall at the city center with, you know, friends and then teachers, you know, just looking at me and speaking.

[09:49]

So, yeah, thank you so much. With those, all the circumstances brought me here, so. Yeah, so thank you. So I'm here to talk a little bit, you know, before Kaz talks about, you know, aesthetics through the Zen garden, I wanted to talk about my personal experience about, you know, taking photographs of these wonderful Zen gardens. So for me, it was very much of a challenge because For me, it is difficult to sit one place or just take time to calm my mind. And then I think that's why I like to take photographs because, you know, I know each moment is very, very precious, but also... some places, so photographed so many times, you know, I have my idea about, you know, how it should look. So it was particularly challenging for me to have a personal connection to the stones and to the leaf and then what was going on.

[11:00]

And actually, my husband, Ben, you know, who is standing right here, really encouraged me to take time because During the time that I was photographing these images appear in this book and then appear on the wall today. It took two years, but it happened to be during the pandemic. So I was very lucky to have the temple gardens just for ourselves and to really take in a quiet environment. But I still find myself you know, in a very agitated mindset that I would look at things and I think, oh, okay, so that's enough, and then move on, and so on and so forth. But, you know, he would encourage me to sit at one place and then just take time, you know, sit for 20 minutes, half an hour, or even longer.

[12:01]

And then... After maybe the second visit or so, at the same temple, I realized that I cultivated some kind of intimacy to the place, and then I also noticed a subtle difference of the light. Maybe it was the light or season, but also it was a reflection of myself. So it was almost like a very good practice for me to really face the Zen gardens. And then we would visit the same temples, you know, many times. And at that time, you know, we were living in Kyoto, and we would bicycle to the temples and, you know, go in. Nobody was there, but the temple gate was open. So we would go and then take some time, and then sometime, take photographs, but intentionally I didn't pick up my camera and just stay there.

[13:04]

And something will kind of come, and then when I saw there was something happening, I would take pictures. So there are pictures from my personal experience in this book, and some you see it on the walls. So I hope you enjoy looking at each images, and I hope that it conveys the rich experience that I had at that moment, in that particular day, at that particular stage of my mind, and then feel a connection. And then among those photographs, there's one photograph that I put and selected. It's by the father and on the right-hand side over there. There's a picture of kind of destruction, many broken pieces of those roof tiles or a piece of wood from the house.

[14:12]

But yet there is a branch of plum. flower, and the light is just hitting there. So that was taken where we live now in Noto Peninsula, which the massive earthquake hit on January 1st. But I think that experience from taking these Zen gardens kind of prepared me to really face what was in front of me. to quiet my mind and really take in. Sometimes it's a beauty, and sometimes it's a kind of destruction. But to each moment, to have a very intimate, strong connection to each moment. And then I wanted to say a heartfelt gratitude to Frank, who is here, for him to embark a project to support us, both of us, Bernd and I, to come here.

[15:18]

We have been dealing with many obstacles since January 1st, and we were not able to make our decision whether we can be here today or not until end of March. And Kaz was very patient to just wait. But I'm very happy to be here, and then shared our experience, or my experience, and then, you know, experience of working with cars, and then present this book just released, and then this is my first book published, and then so much joy and enriching moment, and I hope that this will be passed on to you through this book. So, thank you so much. Thank you, Michio. It's nice to come back to Zen Center. I moved to San Francisco from Japan in 1977 to serve as a scholar in residence.

[16:36]

which I did for seven years, and we started translating Zen Master Dogen's work with some of the advanced practitioners here. And so altogether I have like 33 partners, and then I worked for seven years here, met Linda here, and then my kind of life again changed too. And then everything changed. And then, so I moved when I was 44 years old. So I've been here in the United States since then. So more than half of the year I'm in the United States. And our daughter was born nearby.

[17:37]

And so, I'd like to be back here. And also, San Francisco Center supported this Dogen project for 33 years for just one project, you know, one big book. But I deeply appreciate that. Now, kind of... Dogen is being appreciated and read and studied all over the world. And so that was a vision of officers, robots, everybody from the Zen Center. And I deeply appreciate that. So this book is an inside view of Zen gardens.

[18:38]

So I think most other books kind of focus on the outside beauty of the gardens, but here we start from the state of meditation, so you all experience your familiar ways, and then evolution of Zen gardens in Japan, and also the unique aesthetics of Zen art. So that is maybe a unique way of doing that. In terms of history, I think the most important garden architect is Musou Soseki, 13th to 14th century Wenzai school master.

[19:44]

Can you hear me? Yes. Okay. Okay. So he was probably the most important Wenzai school master. He was the first master who was given the title of national teacher when he was alive. Two other emperors gave him the titles, and then four other emperors, after his death, gave him. So he had seven national teacher titles, regarded as the teacher of seven emperors. But his garden, in the history of Zen gardens, he's most important. He was designing the garden of Saihoji.

[20:52]

It's here. So it's now covered by moss all over. So it's called Kokedera, or moss garden. Most temple. But that time, his time, there was no moss, actually. In the 18th century, kind of someone planted most of all types. But anyway, in the Zwing Gardens, waterfalls is very important because a legend says that The carp goes up on the waterfall and then becomes a dragon. So that's a metaphor for an ordinary meditation practitioner to become an outstanding one.

[21:54]

So dragon means an outstanding practitioner. But there was no high hill nearby. so it was impossible to build a waterfall. Then he had a breakthrough idea of building a dry waterfall, dry, with white sand as a water stream, the stones. So actually here is maybe historical place actually. There are some stones and then there used to be white sand. And that really inspired other block gardens, like gardens in Buruanji Temple, the most important, very abstract kind of empty garden, in a way.

[23:00]

There's no flowers, no streams, no stepping stones, nowadays walking. So we are minimalist, abstract, garden, reliance. You have reliance somewhere, right? Yeah, there too. Yeah. Yeah. In terms of aesthetics, often, well, before that, about 55 years ago, I kind of thought about certain qualities of Zen art, not only gardens, but Zen art.

[24:02]

And before that, there was Shinichi Shishomatsu's book, Zen and the Fine Art, talks about the seven qualities, including asymmetric, naturalness, unworthiness, serenity. I wanted to find terms that are often used in Zen literature. And in a way, from inside Zen terms, find these certain characteristics. So, these are the certain characteristics. The first one is direct, then ordinary, vigorous, greening,

[25:05]

non-dual, inexhaustible. So I'd like to talk a little bit about this from this book. The first one is direct. So in Zen, I think English terms are limited. because it has its own kind of range of meanings and associations. But it came from maybe Chinese and Japanese then terms. So I need to explain it more. And to do that, photographs are very instrumental. And also some words from ancient Zen masters or Zen artists.

[26:09]

So I like to read something. So direct in Zen means there is nothing in between, no intermediary things like intellect or thinking, explanations, words. Just you look at the stone and you experience directly. So, Bogan says, when you paint spring, do not paint widows, plants, peaches, or apricots. Just paint spring. So, we can see that, how can you paint spring? You have to struggle. We have to find our own way to paint spring. kind of express something direct, maybe from our own experience, state of mind.

[27:14]

So that's first quality. So maybe you can say there's something very direct about, you know, look at the storm, and then there's some experience, maybe beyond words. in a way. And I think every maybe photograph or whatever you see in the gardens, actually you see seven qualities. But some of them maybe it's a little more distinct. So that is why we did Seven paintings, right, for each quality, so that maybe people will get some ideas. Especially, I think, we use the details, right?

[28:17]

And then also on the facing page, we show them more like our environment. The second quality is ordinary. Again, kind of ordinary is... has its own meaning in English, but not kind of trying to stand out. It's just kind of be there. So that's maybe ordinary. Su Dung Po, the Song Dynasty. The poet says, plainness, to be plain, is the extreme end of bleeding. Like, you know, rice is plain, like tofu is plain.

[29:24]

But I say Japanese people like plain taste. So you can have it every day. in a way so that's kind of that's one quality and then vigorous again so there's even this stone is sort of you can see something experience dynamism something I mean in terms of the environment, the relationship, you can see. One man said, the east mountain travels on water, so the mountain is moving.

[30:31]

Actually, this character is on the sign, the wooden sign, the horizontal sign in the Buddha Hall of the Ginkaguchi Temple, Silver Pavilion Temple. And that's very appropriate because the Ginkaguchi is in the East Mountain, and then the culture that developed is called East Mountain culture. So tea ceremony, and then some paintings, and no play. Some very subtle, before that it was more like a, you know, golden pavilion, yes. So it's very brilliant, kind of gorgeous, large scale,

[31:34]

Yeah, that's North Mountain, North Mountain culture. It was maybe the beginning of this, maybe then art and culture developed at that time. The next one is gleaming. Well, these translations, actually, my wife Linda, who is here, she helped me. Before that, it was more closer to the original Chinese or Japanese, but maybe it didn't really convey the meaning more fully. So Linda helped me. Thank you, Linda.

[32:35]

So it's like maybe not bright, like maybe zendo is a bit dark. So we can see ourselves better. So tea room is also not to be dark. So that's very important to really enjoy the beauty of the utensils, tea bowls and everything. their host movement and conversations, kind of more serene, subdued environment. So that's it. Like Zulayami, the new play, master and dramaturgist says, those who have mastered blossoming in no performance know about wilting.

[33:56]

Just wilting is above blossoming. So blossoming is beautiful for everybody. You can see. the beauty, dance and everything, but kind of wilting. There is some beauty. And pivot up. So I signed the books Actually, it means great function. But that great function means when we see some scrolls in the tea room, well, there's some writing, and we appreciate, but maybe we just don't think about it, or some cable with some cracks, or some

[35:04]

small amount of flowers, a few flowers in the tea room and so forth. Anything you see, maybe that can change our consciousness, our aesthetics, or our life. So that's a great function. Like maybe in Zen there's turning word, changing people's life. So that is a great function. That is tributal. And non-dual. Mitsuye was talking about non-dual. Of course, experience of non-duality is wisdom beyond wisdom, right?

[36:07]

So in Mayana Buddhism, prajna paramitta. So prajna is wisdom beyond wisdom to see all things as one. Paramitta can be realizing. So the Hatsutra can be translated as the heart of realizing wisdom beyond wisdom. So to see and to go beyond the maybe opposition of maybe stone and sand or movement and not movement. So that is... that is known duality.

[37:12]

Chito says, in darkness, all was one. In brightness, first is murky or clear. This is Sandokai, right? This is actually the where Musou Sasaki kind of lived in his final time, and then he passed away, and actually he is buried underneath in this particular building. And then this is a very powerful and then only sand and the stones. And then actually it was created by a female Sumie painter, contemporary, 20th century.

[38:26]

So very nice. Finally, inexhaustible. There is no limit. So, like, even small tea garden, you see mountains and then oceans and then immeasurable. So, the third ancestor, Sanchang, said, extremely small, is extremely large. Extremely large is extremely small. Not only Zen, but Buddhism is very rich on symbolism.

[39:36]

And then, for example, maybe the moon, when we say moon, that is full moon and that is enlightenment. Then lotus is kind of purity and then beauty and wholeness. And then dewdrop is like a transcendental life. And so many kind of symbols. And then the temple names have so much poetry and then symbolism. Names of gardens, the gate, streams, bridges, pond, these all have very poetic and symbolic So that's kind of Zen symbolism.

[40:39]

And also maybe I'd like to finally talk about the uniqueness of Zen school compared with other schools of Buddhism. That is kind of real, maybe, you can say... maybe daily use of paradoxes. So, like someone said, what is the meaning of Bodhidharma coming from India? Zhao Zhao said, cypress tree in the garden. Doesn't make sense, right? So people try to kind of meditate and try to figure out going beyond the intellectual dualistic understanding and then try to experience his essential teaching.

[41:44]

So that became koan. And then studying koan and then sort of experiencing became often more important than studying scriptures in Zen. So often, like, OK, followings are very formatted, you know, rigorous practice, daily schedules, everything. Try to experience ultimate freedom. So that's kind of not just kind of doing whatever we want to do, but do something completely in following forms. And then also you can see in a small place, you can see something large. So everything is paradoxical.

[42:48]

That is maybe our life too, I guess. Thank you so much. I understand, yes, we have some time. Thank you. So we have some time for, of course, the book signing and so on. But I'm wondering if there's any questions or anything you'd like to ask Kaz or Mitsue regarding the process, the book itself, and or any of the images that you see here. And I'll ask you to speak into this so we can be sure to capture your questions. Anything you'd like to say or ask? Wait, which end do I speak in?

[43:56]

Just speak. I'm just going to speak. Thank you so much. It was so beautiful. I love the book. It's as usual filled with your exquisite understanding, Kaz, and I look forward to reading it. And since I had the good fortune to travel with Mitsue last November in Japan, I am somewhat familiar with her photo-snapping mind. And I did know that this book was coming, and But even sitting and listening to you, I get a better understanding of that process that you had of sitting quietly in those gardens, some of which I had the pleasure of seeing with you and with Bernd. And I knew that this was during the pandemic. And... I somehow now feel even more, though I knew this, even more looking at the book and looking at these images, I feel the influence of that event on the images, just if only by virtue of the fact that the gardens were empty.

[45:21]

And now I... I guess my question after all that is really, I wonder, knowing what you and what you and Berendt went through on the Noto Peninsula with the earthquake, were you taking photographs? You did. Yes, I did. Yes. And then, in a way, you really anchored me. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for that comment. It really anchored me to really to meet the moment. And then at the moment, you know, it's very pure and experienced and it's beyond anything. And then I think that as a practitioner, I think we all kind of have the moment of, okay, you know, it's beyond your adding meaning of good or bad or anything like that, but it's just very direct.

[46:32]

And then, yeah, so, yeah, perhaps it is, as I said, seeing this garden and then, you know, to see a very rich moment in the simplest thing prepare me to see in the chaos some simple beauty or very pure moment. So, yeah, for that, you know, it was very perhaps pivotal, yeah, to work on this book in many ways. But Mitsui wrote a very beautiful article on the magazine called Noto. And then it's a special issue on the earthquakes. So it was very nice. And then her photographs and so forth. By the way, this book is dedicated to Grant.

[47:34]

So he's a kind of wonderful practitioner of temple style vegetarian cooking. And so that Mitsu's article is showing that, you know, he and other people are cooking so many people. And then, you know, in the recreation center. And then, yeah, so much service. They were doing that, yeah. Thank you. Any other questions? Thank you. So this is a question for Mitsue. When you were sitting contemplating what photograph you wanted to take of any particular garden, etc., did you take more than one photograph

[48:47]

photo and decide which one best represented the or that you felt the most connected to and did you have any other way that you recorded it other than through the photograph did you write something or have some other process that went along with that Thank you. So yeah, as many friends who know me, I really take many pictures. So it was difficult to make a selection. But I think I really have to learn not to take pictures and then wait for the moment. Because when I'm looking for something to take a picture, it doesn't happen often. But, you know, if my mind is much quieter, and then the thing happens, and then when I take that photograph, you know, that is a very lasting moment that I can go back to the experience.

[49:56]

And then actually, I wrote an essay, or two pages essay in this book. I always felt that I'm not the person with the word. I feel very... hesitant to talk about my experience, but that's why I do photography. But Kaz really encouraged me to write an essay. So he said, oh, so there's a part that I have to write. And then, so I wrote one of my experience, very deep experience of start seeing something. So if you have a chance, yeah, I'd like you to read it. And then, yeah, a good friend of ours, Susan, already really helped me to really refine with the word. So, and then that was a very, yeah, good experience that I could refer back to my experience and write in the word. It was challenging, but very rewarding, so. Thank you. Maybe one more sharing. Any questions or anything else you'd like to bring forward?

[50:58]

Hello. Thank you so much for your talk. I am wondering, for each of you, what drew you into doing this project versus maybe many other things? I think, you know, Nitsui has been kind of guiding a guide to Japan pilgrimage organized by the Yubai Zen Center. She joined Halifax, and I led the kind of pilgrimage every year. And then she's done how many times? Nine. Nine years. And then Brandt joined us one time.

[52:11]

And then we sat. somewhere in the garden, and then we were talking about it, and then I think Blanche said, okay, yeah, kind of aesthetics is interesting, and then why don't you write a book? And then I said, okay, so, and then who is the photographer you really like? And then... I said, why not Mitsue? So we started doing that. So thanks to Grant. Could I add something to what you just said? Just take a moment. This friendship and this relationship between Kaza and Mitsue goes back way farther than those pilgrimages with Roshi Joan, right? You've been our friend and you've been in our home

[53:14]

for a long time. And I just want to add that your connection over your photography and your work and Zen is a deep one. And to encourage you, Kaz gave you the name light, right? And to bring forth what you do with light, you know, with your photography, even when you're... Confidence wasn't so great. And I remember him sending messages to you, dear light, right? So I would like to say that the genesis of this project that you've brought forth together is quite deep and goes back even farther than my dear husband was revealing. Captured this line. Any other questions? I have a question about Zen rock gardens I know in Ryo Anji no matter where you stand in the garden you can't see all the stones is that unique to Ryo Anji or are most Zen rock gardens like that where you can't see everything

[54:37]

I don't know, I think you can see everything in Yohanthi. Oh, you cannot, yeah. There's always one missing. Really? Yeah. I never tried. Yeah, I do. Okay. Yohanthi is very unique because there is nothing else, just, you know, sand and then stone and then moss around it. Other gardens have more elements. Yeah. Maybe we'll just wrap up now so there's time to mingle and share more intimately. I just want to say I was in Japan at the end of April and I was at the Golden Temple as well as Ryonji and when I was at the Golden Temple there were 2,000 people there. So the amount of people

[55:45]

around that area and, you know, also many, many people at the other, the garden. What Mitsuye has captured so beautifully is the mind of Zazen, the stillness in all of these. You can just feel the presence and the stillness of each space. And that capacity, that ability to be able to capture that and offer that in these beautiful photographs is quite a gift. So thank you so much. So as you look at each of these, the stillness enters movement simultaneously. And to feel that presence coming through and to feel just the whole quality of the complete mind, the whole mind of practice in each of these, which as you were speaking, I could hear you coming forth, the invitation by your husband to spend more time. be with it even more completely, more fully, has come through in these photographs again.

[56:46]

So thank you both so much for your presence, for your generosity, for this beautiful gift. And thank you all for being here and celebrating this wonderful art. an expression of practice. And please spend time, connect. Again, Denise will be available in the back if you would like to pick up a book and have it signed by this artist. Maybe he brings your book. We'll be happy to sign it. Great. Thank you. Say again? Prints on sale. So ask Pituaria about the prints on sale. That's good. I didn't know about that. Information is there. What is? Oh, good. Right here. So here's more information if you're interested in buying the prints as well. So, okay. Thank you again so much. What a joy to have you here. Thank you, everyone, for your presence tonight. So, please enjoy.

[57:49]

Thank you. Yeah, please bring it.

[57:57]

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