Good evening, everyone. I would like to introduce to you tonight Sister Palmo. We're fortunate in having her with us tonight. She is a nun in the Kanyupa sect of Tibet and has had advanced training and an advanced teaching degree as a nun in the Kanyupa sect. She's trained in India and Sikkim and for some number of years now has been active with the Tibetan refugees in India and also Buddhist community in Sikkim and Bhutan. Of course, some number of years ago now, Tibetan refugees with the Chinese occupation of Tibet began to come into India

[01:06]

and Sister Palmo began working with a school for young lamas in India and then later also a nunnery for Tibetan refugee nuns in India, Sikkim and Bhutan. So she is now touring the United States and giving lectures at various places. She has consented tonight to come and give us a talk here at Zen Center. So I feel very fortunate that you are here with us tonight, Sister Palmo. It's been a great happiness coming to America for the first time, to the States. And one of the facets of that

[02:26]

happiness has been the happiness of seeing Zen Centers for the first time. I have traveled as far as Hong Kong, in Thailand, in Burma, and I have been in Europe, but I have not seen a Zen Center. And the only Zen Roshi I have ever met was the Soen Roshi whom I met in the middle of a refugee exodus in New Delhi in 1962. And when I came this time, it was in New York, I had the pleasure of meeting him again. And I also spent two nights in a Zen center in Sherbrooke Springs on my first visit to the Sarajus area.

[03:37]

I must say that I have got the firm belief, which I think is shared by many who sit in the centers, that the way to learn the meditation of any particular form of Buddhism is to do it and not to read about it. And I always look forward to the time when I would meet Zen teachers and sit in centers and would understand something of Zen from the inside of the heart. In fact, the way I came into Buddhism was through meditation, not through books. And from the age of about 14, I had been meditating on my own. I was nearly 40 when I met my first Buddhist monk, Vichu. And it was a long time.

[05:01]

But somehow the bridge between East and West is ultimately made. And this long experience in meditation, forking though it was and unskilled though it was for many years, has perhaps made me very conscious of the fact that one can't talk about it and one can't communicate it in words. Therefore, when I saw I'd been able to speak about Zen and Tibetan Buddhism without being consulted, I was a little nonplussed. So I thought the best way would be to say a little of what I understand about the deeper meditation in Tibetan Buddhism and have you compare it with Zen, because I could not do so. After going to university and reading throughout my

[06:11]

childhood, almost voraciously, almost any book that came my way, I went into periods of activity and ultimately into the mountains while working for the Tibetan refugees and completely gave up reading or buying books or reading newspapers. And this went on for many years. I feel very happy being in a newspaperless world, rather like a villager who gets his news from somebody who talks about it. And you have to be rather important to be talked about. And this has released me from a great deal of mental lumber, shall we say, the burden of thoughts. And if at this time I'd been able to become a nun, I've been a nun now for about seven years. A bit shooning. It is because, I think, the karmas that ripen were not hindered by a lot of things that are put into the

[07:34]

mind unnecessarily. If somebody ever asks me as to why people become monks or nuns, what is the motive and what is the reason, I say no reason. The motive, in the broad sense, may be the wish to attain enlightenment for the sake of all that lives, but those who renounce, I think, can hardly explain why they renounce. It is something that happens just as the action, when it is right, falls from the tree. It does not ask where it is going to fall, or how it falls. It just falls. Now, in Tibetan Buddhism, superficially you might say that our methods seem to be

[08:42]

more complicated and more form-conscious than the Zen methods, but all methods, in a way, are a path into the deeper meditation, into the wordless meditation. And we do get the wordless and the deeper meditation. We call it, in our Kajipa sect, the Mahamudra meditation. Our basic method is to go through what we call the Kheren or Cheren, the form meditation, visualization meditation, into the Sovereign, or the complete and the perfect meditation, which is without form.

[09:48]

That is to say, we tend to teach by a method that takes us from form into the formless. Again, I can't compare our methods with yours, because I don't know your methods. But we have at least one thing in common, and that is a great belief that is the deeper reaches of meditation. It is a devotion to the Lama. It is the meeting, as we say, of the mind of the guru and the pupil, of the Lama and the disciple, that brings us to understand it. How is our mind ripened? The ripening of the mind of the pupil, the realization of pupil, the inner realization, which has nothing to do with anything implanted from outside,

[10:57]

is, as it were, strengthened or matured in the great compassion of the guru or teacher. We have the utmost devotion to our gurus and our Lamas, the one we call our Root Lama. We may have many teachers, many gurus, really, according to the Tibetan system, because we may have one in childhood and one a little later, or we may move from one place to the other and take teaching from many gurus. But there is one central guru whom we know instinctively, is our Root Lama, as we call him. He is the essence of all the Buddhas. He is Buddha.

[12:02]

And we say that not in a light way or in a journalistic way, but from our hearts, because we really see our Sari Lama and Chief Lama as Buddha. We see him walking in a Buddha-like way. We hear the Dharma in his voice. In a flash we understand what is an enlightened one and what is a Buddha in his presence. And it is the invisible transmission from the mind of the Lama to our mind. In fact, the realization that the mind of the Lama, the mind of the Buddha and our mind are not different, that brings us to enlightenment. The path is so subtle, so deep, and yet it is beyond individuality, beyond guru, beyond caption.

[13:31]

According to our custom, we may meditate in any place. We do not meditate together. The Zen custom of meditating together has been adopted by Buddhist groups abroad, including Tibetan groups, as being a very useful means for strengthening beginners in meditation. And I think possibly in the Western context no other way was possible, because the habit of sitting is not there, and there are no monasteries where people can live and where they can remove themselves from worldly surroundings. According to our method, we do live in monastic centers, Western Buddhism. There are many monks who have left the world. In India, for instance, in Sikkim, where I am staying, in the head monastery of His Holiness the Avalokiteshvara Guru,

[15:06]

we have about a hundred and, could be seventy-five, eighty monks, and about three hundred people are living all together in village and monastery. We keep the village and the monastery very near together. In the nunnery, where I sometimes stay, we have about twenty resident nuns. Women are always, of course, far fewer than monks. And the nuns live a life, as do the monks, of asceticism. And the rising bell is about half past four or five in the morning, according to the season. And the first prayers begin about half past five. And the life of the monastery goes on until the evening.

[16:07]

And there is very little time, free time, during the day. Two hours, three hours, maybe, in the afternoon. And at ten o'clock, lights out on the monastery. The people who come to the monastery do not expect to meditate in the monastery, in the same ways as you do. We have the morning prayers and the evening prayers, and sometimes day-long prayers. Prayer has a great part to play in our tradition. The meditation time is after dusk in the evening, when the evening office is complete, when people meditate privately in their own rooms, and also in the morning, after the morning prayers, or in the case of older nuns, even before the morning prayers.

[17:20]

If somebody wishes to meditate deeply, and go into formless meditation, then that person will arrange to live in a hermitage on the hill, or will go into what we call a special meditation house. These are rare to find, and it's difficult for a monk to enter these refugee days, because the cost of the food often has to be borne by the monk concerned, and he has to find means of paying it. Or he has to be accepted by a kind lama like our venerated Kala Rupache, who will himself collect money for all monks. The nuns have no regular place where they can meditate for three years, as the men do. But they do go for short retreats, and our Western nuns, and we have now about fourteen in our sect, do find time to go in for short meditations, one, two, three months, fairly regularly.

[18:31]

They also have to look after themselves during the meditation time. We believe that the deeper meditation is best accomplished alone, or with somebody to act as, ideally, as a sort of attendant or helper. Sometimes two nuns, or two monks, or three monks will be together in the house, and there will be one person who fetches the food and cooks it. The meditator is allowed to speak to the one who serves him or her, and a little talking may be done on any important point in the evening, or during the day, but talking is by and large discouraged. We are not encouraged to keep silent vows, except for short periods. We do have a practice which we call taking the eight precepts, or nunni, which is a very powerful practice, and which is practiced by the monks and nuns, usually, by the nuns especially, it's very popular with nuns, twice a year.

[19:54]

It consists in keeping what we would call an ordinary Buddhist fast, as I say, eating up to midday only, and not eating after midday. On the first day, while reciting the mantras of Chenrezig, Avalokiteshvara, Om Mani Padme Hum, and doing certain sadhanas, taking the eight precepts. If there is a lama, the lama will give the eight precepts, and if not, they will be taken, as we say, from the Buddhas in the sky, imagining the Buddhas in the sky. In the evening, no food will be taken, but a little tea, perhaps. And the following day, there is complete fast, complete silence, and not even water is drunk, nothing is taken. And the only thing that can be done is to recite the mantra Om Mani Padme Hum, or read the puja, or service, or meditate silently.

[20:59]

Some of these sessions may be in the common hall, but again, the meditator would have the option of sitting in his or her room. This prayer, as we call it, of new moon day, is repeated in the year, usually about eight times, and could be sixteen times. That means that four new moon day, eight days, would be done during the first month of the year, and another eight days would be done during the enlightenment month. And it's, again, a matter of choice whether you do more or less of each new moon. In the villages, there is a special house for performing this new moon fast retreat, where the villagers go. It's very popular with the villagers, and the idea is that this is the way to get away from the family setting, and to get into the monastic atmosphere, and make good resolution. And perform good karma, by taking vows, for people who normally can't take them.

[22:09]

I hope that in this country, and perhaps in the West, this practice can be undertaken by members of our Tibetan Buddhist groups. It is a very excellent practice, and it could be performed without a guiding lama. The problem here, in England, in the continent, is really the problem of no lamas, or not sufficient lamas. And I think you have that problem here too. After deeper meditation, I would like to read you one or two short pieces by our great teachers, Tilopa and Tharopa. These were translated by Garmasithicham, and they do represent the philosophy of our deeper meditation.

[23:14]

Tharopamudra is beyond all words, said Tilopa. And who was Tilopa? Tilopa was the first lama of our line. He was an Indian bhikshu, who lived in the land which we now call Bangladesh, as they say in Chittagong, in the Bengal area. And at one point he left the monastery, and left his robes, and went into the hills like a yogi, living a life of great asceticism and difficulty. And there he attained enlightenment, in a cave by a mountain stream. Incidentally, it is near that cave, just above it, about the same mountain stream, that we have built the nunnery for the refugee Tibetan monks. And for the first time for centuries, there has been a Tibetan temple near the cave. His pupil was Naropa. Naropa was a Kashmiri Brahmin, a lay learner, who was a Buddhist monk. He was converted to Buddhism and became a monk. And he was so learned, he became vice-chancellor of the Nalanda University.

[24:38]

But at one point, after great honour and service, a great longing came to go away to the mountains, to meditate, to be away from all form. And he escaped into the hills of Himachal Pradesh, where we are staying, and there he found his guru, Tilopa. Some of you may have read that beautiful translation by Herbert Gunther, of the life of Naropa, in that story of Tilopa, Naropa's story. And Tilopa was, like all great mystics, also a poet, a natural poet. And the songs he sang are unforgettable. He said, the void needs no reliance. Mahamudra rests on naught. Without making an effort, but remaining loose and natural, one can break the yoke, thus gaining liberation.

[25:41]

Clouds that wander through the sky have no roots, no home, nor do the distinctive thoughts floating through the mind. Once the self-mind is seen, discrimination stops. One should strive for liberation, one should rely on a guru, when your mind receives his blessing, emancipation is achieved. And then we come to the words of the third Karmapa. Our present Karmapa is sixteenth in the line of incarnated Karmapa. After the famous Naropa came Padamanta, who was the first Tibetan guru, and his pupil was the singing yogi Milarepa, whom most of you must have known. And Milarepa was followed by Gampaka, the famous abbot. And Gampaka was the teacher of the first Karmapa.

[26:54]

After that, the line has gone through the sixteen Karmapas to the present one. The third Karmapa was a great mystic who used to go away into the mountains and live in caves across the sky. And he said this about the Mahamudra, Nothing really is, for even the Buddha no existence sees. All is not empty, for nirvana and samsara do exist. This wondrous middle way of two-in-one is neither in harmony nor conflict. Oh, may I realize the self-mind which is free from all discriminations. No one can describe that by saying it is this. No one can deny that by saying it's not this. This non-being of the real Dharma which transcends the realm of consciousness. May I understand it with full conviction.

[28:04]

Our books on Mahamudra are difficult to find and there are no translations except for these songs and the book of Dharmasissi Chand and I have found in English. Dr. Evans Wentz made some translations which helped me in the study, but it has been my privilege during the last few years to translate a text of Mahamudra which I'm just getting privately published and which was written about four hundred years ago by one of the great Lamas of our line. It is a section in the Mahamudra method teaching which I thought I'd share with you this evening.

[29:15]

It is a section in the Mahamudra method teaching, can't teach the Mahamudra, that is a spontaneously arising realization which we cannot possibly describe. But on the way to this, there are certain hindrances and difficulties that arise as we all know and we have to confront these difficulties in our own mind and sometimes even the advice of the teacher does not help. But the teacher is really the only one who can help us to clear the difficulties. However, some effort was made by the Shambhala Lama to guide his pupils by writing this small handbook and I thought I would just discuss two things that he said. You know, when you are meditating, according to all Buddhist traditions, there are two problems. One is what in Pali is called Tinamida, meaning a sort of sleep or chokha that comes over you when you are trying to meditate, and the other one is what is called in Pali Vichiticha, which means the mind is restless and disturbed.

[30:35]

So the advice of the Shambhala to his pupils when sloth or sluggishness is the problem, he says in order to purify this fault, meditate on a Bindu spot as big as a berry between the eyes, you know the place where the Indian ladies put this red Bindu. White and radiant and soft, pearl-like. And see it very clearly and keep your mind on it. And at other times when your mind is uneasy or disturbed, imagine a black Bindu spot, soft and as big as a berry in the same place. If sleep or chokha is the problem, project the white Bindu spot into the sky before us and gaze at it. Be in a place where air is coming onto the body and sprinkle water. We do that sometimes when we can't concentrate, when we are taking long initiations, sometimes hours and hours and hours.

[31:54]

And we have to sit and receive these transmissions which come through initiation. We are advised to take water and sprinkle it on the face and on the eyes. Wear thin clothes if you are in line to sleep. Don't wear heavy clothes. And do not eat very nourishing food. Cut down the nourishment in your food. That is the first point, the point of sleeping, feeling. And then the second point is if your mind is disturbed and you can't control it and many things are rushing through the mind, then think of the black Bindu spot projected into the sky in front in the same way. Begin to wear warm clothes. Rub your body with oil and eat more strengthened food than you are doing. That will help you to control the mind.

[32:57]

These are just practical hints. This is why I'm giving them to you because you all got the higher teaching, the mind teaching, but sometimes there are practical hints which meditators know which help and which can aid you. Another way we have when you're not lazy and you're not disturbed, you're just normal. How do you improve your education then? Well, one of our methods is to imagine a small blue object, sometimes a small blue flower or a small blue stone on the edge of a patch of shade. Now the idea of that is, that's when you're meditating outside and you've got the shade of trees or leaves in front of you. And if you meditate like that, then you have to keep the concentration very perfectly on that because the shade is moving slightly.

[34:04]

It's not exactly, it's not always the same, it's changing. It's either receding or coming towards you. Be clear that you're meditating on the blue object. Even if you can't meditate on it very clearly, just make an attempt and do what you can. And don't think of the qualities of it. It's blue, it looks like that, or it's a flower, or it's a stone. Just look at it naturally with an unwandering mind. And only meditate for short periods. Do very short meditations and keep breaking them. And then again going back and breaking, again going back and breaking. Don't force yourself to meditate very rigidly for long periods. If you don't like meditating with an object of concentration, if you don't want to meditate on the white bengu or the black bengu or the blue, then just look straight at the sky with wide open eyes. Don't look at anything else.

[35:27]

As much as you can, keep your mind unwandering. Don't think of the past. Don't plan for the future. Just go on contemplating with very great energy, unrestricted. I won't go into details of this, but some of you may be able to get a copy of this manuscript because it will be circulated in the States. I'm just pointing to saving points in it. Keep your mind wandering if you are threading a needle. The needle-threading motive is used a great deal in teaching and deepening education. We are told to imagine the mind almost like a needle, so to speak, just as if we are threading a needle, just to keep that very fine and very delicate.

[36:45]

Concentration, one point of concentration. We are taught, of course, always to be aware of disturbances, but not to push them away. Complete state awareness. Even the thought which you become aware of becomes the object of attention. Then we have a way of, of course, controlling the breath. I don't know whether Zen you do that. Do you have a teaching about controlling the breath? Do you have that teaching? No? Chanting breath. Yes, we also chant. We have a method of chanting breath. And then we say there are three stages in meditation. In the first, the thoughts flow in like a mountain torrent rushing. And in the second stage, the torrent of thoughts comes to a stop and thoughts come, one thought at a time.

[37:58]

We have to recognize it, not let it slip. And the river flowing would be like a symbol of the meditation, that point, the great river, the peaceful river. And in the final stage, thoughts, whether big or small, finish and the mind goes into the chunyata, the void, the unborn, the givingness, that which never stops, the original, pure mind. And the text says, this clear and happy state, beyond thought, very fine, immaculate, pure and clear, calm, complete blissful, which will come to you, unless and until it dawns or is born within you. You must make great efforts with your meditation. Once it arises, then you can be continuously conscious of it.

[39:05]

Well, I won't go further into that, but this is just to show you the sort of teaching that we are given in the text, and of course, through the Shri Mataji's teachings. Through the teacher, or the lama, who guides us. There's always a realization, as I said, that the mind is the guru and the pupil is one. That the pure mind is the Buddha mind. The mind itself is enlightened. But I always think that when one is struggling to sit and practice regularly, to come to a center, to improve in some way, although we are told not to have objectives, and not to want to improve, and so on, and just to sit, to be, there is some comfort. In getting even a small, a small hint from a great lama, an awakened lama, that has gone through countless lives, all that we are going through.

[40:33]

It's really such a joy to see so many enthusiastic meditators, in New York, in San Francisco, in country centers, and I do hope that the coming and going between Zen and Zen Buddhism will go on. Your late Roshi, who became world famous, we feel we know him even if we didn't. Suzuki Roshi, because we have seen his picture, we have read of him. And our lama, Trungpa Rinpoche, loved him dearly, as a father. I think in Trungpa Rinpoche we have a bridge between Zen and Zen Buddhism. Somebody who deeply appreciates it, and appreciates Japanese culture, and many more, will perhaps come. I pray also that some of you who meditate in the Zen dojo may come to India, even found a Zen dojo in India.

[41:39]

But I haven't found a Zen dojo in the whole of India. I don't know whether there is one, I don't know about it. I know there are some people who read Zen books, who praise Zen Buddhism, and there must be some who have practiced in the West a little, and perhaps even silently are practicing somewhere. But I think there is a little need for more practical demonstration of Zen meditation. At least I think that is a thought in your mind. We have got in the not only Tibetan Buddhism, which is of course the natural Buddhism, Mahayana Buddhism of our great Himalayan context, let's just say Himachal Pradesh, Ladakh, Darjeeling, Sikkim, Bhutan, Nepal, all that area is Mahayana Buddhism, and is following the Tibetan system in some way.

[42:43]

We have got Nichiren Buddhism, who are making stupas in India. I think we have two stupas in the third one's hand. One stupa is in Rajgir. We have Burmese Buddhists, and a few Singhalese Buddhists who have a lot of tradition. And of course we have millions and millions of new Buddhists who came by the blessing of the Fully Enlightened Ones at the time of the 1956 Buddhadayana celebration. There is a great field for teaching Buddhism. Perhaps I will stop there. Any other questions?

[43:48]

I would like to answer or try to answer. Probably you are much more than me than I am in this question. This question. How can we reach the point? How can we reach the point? Yes, that's the point. I'm trying to be with you. Now there are two methods. One is diving in at the deep end head first. Which is the method of people who sit and sort of think they will reach it. Sometimes they do. Excuse me, sitting like this, but I sprained my ankle very badly. I'm more than likely to fall. I have to write without a pen.

[44:50]

I have to keep moving my position. Our method is to use mantras and to visualize. I've been trying to analyze this method, you know, in modern ways we do. The point is that if the mind is concentrated on a thought or a vibration, as in the case of mantra, and on a visualization, the mind gets slightly tired. And it's this slight tiredness of the mind that enables us to leave the visualization and leave the mantra and just be, just sit. And then at that point it becomes easier to understand what is meant by the form. I think it's partly due to that slight tiredness. It's like Vipassana meditation in the Burmese way.

[45:52]

Some of you may have practiced that. My first teachers were Burmese gurus and I learned Vipassana in Rangoon Rangoon, under Venerable Mahaprabhu. He was the most wonderful guru. I put my head at his feet. And his method was, which is a very ancient method, it's not a new one, it's not a Burmese. The time when, if that time ever comes, he will say, yes, that's the only thing, that is the way. And nothing will convince you that that is not the way. But it's a kind of desire. Or a mantra, basically. We are getting a trickle of mantra. It's very, very helpful to be in the rose and to relax. But as I say, nobody can tell you how to do that. That's something that has to come by itself. It's very difficult to argue or to think.

[46:55]

But I say, it is the blessed way, because it's the way taught by the Buddha. It's the way taught by the Buddha. And therefore it must be right, because the Buddha taught the wrong things. But we have to realize it's the right. This idea that, you know, in America we can't become monks and nuns, or something like that. That it's not suitable in this civilization to renounce it. I don't think it's right. Yes, there is a time and a plan. And there is a realization of maturity of the mind of the whole people. But I think there's been enormous development in the consciousness, Buddhist consciousness, shall we say, of the American people. From what I can understand, and certainly in Europe and the continent.

[47:56]

The way you are behaving now and what you are doing now in the States, could this have happened ten years ago? I don't think so. Many things have changed. The mind of a whole generation has been affected. And the time will come when this happens. And once more people start taking this path, it becomes easier. It's quite difficult to do it single-handedly. Not so difficult if a number of people are taking the path. Question from the audience. Well, that's very nice of you to say that. But I think my realization is not Guru's realization, so the effect would not be the same. Our Guru is coming this autumn.

[49:02]

And since you have asked me that, I will request him when I go back to bring the Heart Sutra with him and to read it. And he may be able to read it to you. If that aspiration is in your heart, maybe that could happen. Question from the audience. What is Karmapa's schedule in the US? We don't really know yet. It's under negotiation. The possible time of arrival in San Francisco should be about the 1st of October. Or thereabouts, but I don't exactly know. But not in September, possibly. How many of you here have been to Sikkim, have seen His Holiness?

[50:07]

Anybody seen Him in this room? Question from the audience. Question from the audience. Question from the audience.

[51:36]

You see, the whole science is very complicated. We do Bodhisattva prayers, and refuge prayers, and prayers for happiness of all the deaths. We do prayers sometimes from Sutras. And we do prayers to Chenrezig, Avalokiteshvara, and the Divine Mother. We do confession prayers. From the Sutra of the Three Sections. And we have prayers according to the moon. On the full moon days, we have the monks and us, confession prayers. We have special guru prayers on the 10th of the moon.

[52:43]

And we have special Divine Mother prayers on the 25th of the moon. And on the 29th of the moon, we have special protective prayers. Of the angry forms, which are special to our Zen Buddhism. We do protective prayers every evening. And these vary from temple to temple. The idea is to protect the Dharma. And we often have very beautiful prayers with music and beautiful chanting to the Divine Forms, like the Yidams or the Herukas, which can last for a week at a time. We have all the prayers for everything. We have meditation prayers. Occasionally we have prayers for concentrating the images and so on. The point is that prayer is a sort of guided meditation. It contains mantra. It contains meditation instruction.

[53:48]

It contains the special prayers for identification with the Divine Beings. It's not just praying at something. It's very much more subtle than the average Christian prayer. Some Christian prayers are very beautiful and very deep too. In fact, I believe that what is called ritual is a form of meditation, basically. That's my opinion. Because it has everything. And for instance, before we do the Enlightenment dances, the Lama dances, we have ten days of intense prayer preceding the dances, when the Lamas hardly have an hour or two's break at night, until they're almost in a sleep trance, if you will.

[54:52]

They go on and on until, when they get up from their sleep, sometimes they stumble. And this goes on for ten days with great intensity. And after ten days, then they do a marathon dance. I can only call it dance because it starts at eight in the morning and it goes on for five in the evening with very short breaks, very slow and very rhythmic. And it's just like a spring coming out of a box and going around in circles. It's not with leaping movements or any roughness. It's all very, very smooth and very deep. And repetitive, again, very repetitive. So the object of the dance is not just to have a show to please people, because they don't invite anybody to the dance, ever. I mean, even the king of Sikkim, who's living only an hour away,

[55:56]

would not be invited to the Lama dance. I mean, nobody's invited. If people like to come there, they can come, if they can find out which day it's on. But like Easter, you know, it changes every year. There's no special day. You have to know. And the Lama kept dance. And a great time is spent in planning these dances, every detail of the costumes, and it's extremely difficult. Basically, the meaning is the development of the mind and the enlightenment's need. So I'm not willing to put things into two compartments. One is ritual, which is a kind of abuse in the modern Western world, or non-ritual, or sitting. Because I think, basically, the results are very alike. Methods are different, but the results are very alike.

[56:57]

You can have your enlightenment, who, by your standards, would be spending very little time in what we call sitting meditation. But still, their realization is very great. Certainly, our deepest and best permits are at a stage of realization, beyond that of the monks in the temples, I could say that. Because a stage does come when they can't stay in the monastery. They have to leave, almost have to leave. Their inner realization is such that they just must live in the mountains. We have to, like them. They're always a source of inspiration. Sometimes we hardly see them. These are acres of modern age. And they live in the mountains of Bhutan. Thank you. What is the Tibetan Buddhist attitude on the maintaining of your physical health,

[58:03]

and medications, doctors, and the whole field of physical health? Well, for too long, the Lamas encourage us to look after our health. For instance, if we are doing practices of tuaseti, the Lama will stop us doing them, he finds out. They like you to make an effort not to be tuaseti, but that wasn't the Buddha's way. The Buddha's way was the middle path. About medicines, again, they cooperate with the doctors. For instance, a very common question asked of a Lama when somebody is very sick, because people always go to the Lama when people are sick, is what kind of medicine shall be used for him. You see, we have a choice of about four kinds in India. We have western, what you would call your medicine, western medicine,

[59:04]

which many Indians do learn, become very competent surgeons and doctors. Then we have Ayurvedic medicine, which is a very ancient system based on herbs and prayers, and we have excellent Ayurvedic doctors in India. Then we have Tibetan medicine, which is based on not only herbs, but also other substances, based on tantra, and on very deep prayers, and it is spiritual medicine, but it also has got a very medical way with it. And we have got homeopathy, which is very popular in India too. So they will go to the doctor, which is the best medication, make it better, and then to the Lama. Then the Lama will say, oh, Ayurvedic is better, or Tibetan is better, or western medicine is better. They will say whichever is better. They will always cooperate with doctors.

[60:07]

But we believe that there is a level, the Hindus also believe it, that there is a level which is not reached by any medicine, any physical medicine also, or even by any psychological treatment. For instance, they believe that there is a first level, which is the level, physical level of medicine, and there is the emotional level. Something like, you know, that doctor is very good, and when I see him I feel better. The doctor's presence, the emotional feeling you get with your doctor, that is a source of healing also. And then there is a second level. And then the third level is the mental level, which would come under psychosomatic treatment, and mental hospital treatment, and psychological treatment, and so on. And then there is a fourth level, which no doctor takes into account, and that is that which is beyond words, the spiritual level. The deep spiritual level. And the Lama works on that level.

[61:12]

But if the other three levels are looked after too, that helps him. In the old days in Tibet, of course, the Lama himself was a doctor. We have a lot of medicines too. But they are not medicines, you know, of separate diseases. They are medicines that cure all. We call them prashads. Drill gurus and the karmapas traditionally have a very marvelous medicine, which is not given except to people who go to the temple. And they take part in certain ceremonies. And it's a medicine in which there is something of all the line of karmapas, every one of the sixteen. And the color is given by a piece of iron, which was from the plough that Marfa used to plough this field. It's still gone. And a little bit of the iron that Milarepa used to make those houses for Marfa,

[62:18]

it's still got it. They carried it with them from Tibet to India. And it was used just last year when making these bills, the dark and the color. So the very energy of Milarepa and Marfa are somehow associated with these. We believe in that level very much. For instance, we believe the touch of the hand of the Lama is very important. The touch blessing is very important for us. There are many very wonderful cases of healing, which are always happening near the monasteries. But the Lamas will never claim themselves to be healers or something like that. But it's very much, very quiet. It's very much part of their practice. But good health and healing do come wherever they go. I have another one.

[63:29]

In the cities that you're in, in Sikkim and in India, do they have crime and violence like we have in this country, in San Francisco? And how do you, as Tibetan Buddhists, deal with that? Well, I should say that there is rather less crime and violence than there is in the States, in India. There's rather less. We have got traditional problems like the Brigham problem in the valleys of central India, in the forests. And we have, in fact, the most remarkable effort made by one of the great disciples of Mahatma Gandhi to control this traditional method of living of certain peoples in the forest areas. And with great success. You might have heard of Jai Prakash Narayan, some of our big Indian social workers,

[64:30]

previously in politics but not now, who worked for the benefit of all. Vinoba Bhave, for instance, Mahatma Gandhi's disciple. The non-violent method has been used by them in two or three cases and with remarkable success. It takes a long time, it's a very patient thing, but they got the brilliance to give themselves up to the police and trust to justice in India. And the people who asked them to do it, pledged their own lives in case anything went wrong with them. But fortunately, everything went alright and we've had some wonderful results from it. We have got, occasionally, politically speaking, violence breaks out between communities, which of course is rather like the black and coloured position here in America, where there sometimes comes a race-type clash.

[65:33]

We do all we can to see that justice is done, so that people don't have to break up like that. You know, all over the world there is violence in some shape or form. Political violence erupts sometimes, often due to either provocation from outside or because of very difficult conditions in the country. Lack of food can cause it sometimes. I guess I was thinking specifically of the random killings that have been happening in San Francisco and even in this neighbourhood in the last few months. We used to, we used to. I know when conditions are difficult. Solemnists often do a special prayer. Mantras and prayers. We had a difficult time last year in Sikkim when there were elections.

[66:40]

And there was a great deal of prayer in the monastery. The monastery was perfectly calm and all I had was not touch. And the Lamas regarded as being above all politics. If you take the Bodhisattva vow, there is not a single living being who is not included in that. You can't feel more for one side than for the other. You must feel for all. Thank you. Thank you for the great love and compassion of the Buddha. Meditation. As we say in Theravada, Amrita. Or meditation. Conch and Raisin. Another love meditation. All these would have positive vibrations which would help a troubled situation. There is nothing that great love and great compassion can't solve. That's my enemy.

[67:44]

I thought we might close with the Bodhisattva's four vows. Maybe we could all do it in English please. Thank you. The world's weight is unsurpassable. I vow to attain it. Thank you.

[68:43]

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