Okay, good evening. So we'll start with the homework of you. For those who don't remember, the homework was to practice pausing. So, how did it go? It's impossible. What did you notice? that makes you say it was impossible? Well, the more I look at it, I realize it's easier to do it when you're sitting in meditation, or doing changing, or really actively doing that. But throughout the day, you may look up a little pause here or there, but you're really basically working with sort of Either your own attachment stuff, or your own fear stuff, or your own believer.

[01:06]

All the time. All the time. Most of the time. That sounds like continuous practice. That's like seamless continuous practice. There's a person you're going to do at work. So really, just pause. Because my job involves a lot of multitasking and things moving and something's always appearing. I mean, if I got a chance to really pause, I'd be eaten up. I'd be eaten up. Eaten alive. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I'm sorry, what? Would that be a good thing or a bad thing? Do they eat that? Yeah. There's sort of this primal instinct to sort of save yourself.

[02:08]

The blackface appears to death and turn around, and you're ready. Are you going to find us just going out? OK, I'll work on it next time. OK, so I did it in a variety of sets. I did it in the shower. I did it on a bike. I did it numerous times in the midst of frantic work days. And what I took away from it really was that sort of no moment really speaks for itself. I mean, I could really sort of see that I was the sort of co-author of it. in a way that I really haven't been able to see. Or I saw it with more clarity than before. So that's what actualization means of the moment, sort of the co-creation of it fully.

[03:11]

I actually have the experience of that more clearly than before. And how about this part about not having a commentary or a story? Or as that story said, not speaking. We were able to notice that. I just tried to deal with all your senses. The only commentary I really noticed was how weird it was to do that. I mean, it was sort of this thought that this was very strange. But there wasn't a lot of other stuff on it. The most interesting one was doing it in the middle of the quad at school with like tons of noise and .

[04:18]

What it is to take that in. And just sort of the whole kind of vibe that was happening. I don't know why it was interesting to me, but I found it really fascinating. And what happened? One, I was really surprised at how little I actually noticed when I'm walking through the remote. And then it's sort of like . But also, I was really surprised at how loud it is. It's a coffin. different languages and different volumes of speech. And it was just really bad. And I never noticed that it was really bad.

[05:26]

And I just, I mean, for me it was like the first time, it was almost like, it was the first time I really saw just going somewhere. So I never really have. I noticed that there were bushes that I hadn't seen before. There were actually flowers there and things like that, but I hadn't seen anything. I just find it really fascinating all of a sudden. It's almost like you wake up somewhere and you go, how did I get here? You know, like when you're driving my mistake and all of a sudden you go, wait, what was the route I just took? It was sort of that kind of experience. worked with the kids in the kids program this Saturday. And so I just did this very brief meditation with them and just had them.

[06:33]

It just was really so palpably different just from one second to the next. They'd been playing and drawing and writing and doing all this stuff for 45 minutes. And then we were going to close the session. And so we sat in a circle. And they were all different ages and really different energies. And I just said, let's just listen for 10 seconds. And I'll ring the bell beginning and the end. And just try to just sort of let your ears open and listen to the furthest sound away from me that you can. And they just got so still for those 10 seconds. And there was just this sort of prismatic quality of I could feel their own perception deepening and my own sort of awareness of them deepening in that kind of pause.

[07:39]

And it just was so fast, but it felt so kind of dense. So it was like a shared pause. And it felt really, it happened really fast. And then there was all this cleaning up and everything. And it wasn't until later that I really reflected on the shift that took place there. And it seemed to have a kind of afterlife, too, in the way they were conducting themselves afterwards. It takes a moment to wake up. It takes a moment to pause. It's so close that it's just noticing the sensory experience in any situation.

[08:43]

You just feel what it is to have your leg bent. a rhyme or you can compliment it, whichever way you want to think of it, with the notion of what our habitual tendencies are unrelenting, persistent, and compelling. So they're constantly reinventing, re-expressing themselves. They're constantly coming back in and saying, yes, but I have something to say. So what is it to not speak for five or ten years? What is it to not only pause, but to let the direct experience register in a way that it undoes, even for a moment, the commentary, the habitual response, the busyness, you don't even see the flowers.

[09:53]

What is it to let it register that it lingers? is that then the activity has a slightly different hue to it. That's why you approach it with a slightly different disposition. What is it to be done by the experience? So that is where we'll pick up the next case. Unless anyone else, oh, maybe one other thought on that. So the end of that story. It says, entering the monastery, leading the monastery. So entering the moment of pause. Entering the moment of singular activity. Leaving the moment of singular activity. Re-entering the world. Re-entering the karmic constructs with their habit energy. Can that be re-entered with more awareness?

[10:57]

difference between reentering it consciously and just being swept up again by destruction. And so all these things you can explore directly from a moment to pause. And then how to just fly in that sky of activity, how to carry that conscious Availability for experience in the midst of activity. The bird flies in the forest. And then the last part says, and the whole universe is the forest. And how to have that be all inclusive, not being excluded. So whatever arises is part of that awareness. Not like this is it, and beyond this is not it. So what is it? pause or is it the leave pause and why does it have that leave all-inclusive awareness so just to practice this thousands upon thousands of times a day and then after five or ten years you know it starts to register a little bit

[12:25]

where we were before. And then this one's a couple of pages, and I'll read through them. Did you find it? Which one did we in? We, um, well, I have a... this translation, it starts. Is that the translation you're looking at? Yeah. In Muktangmei, in the Quinyan prefecture, Bacchan from Yangguan, founded the Huxiang Monastery on this mountain.

[14:06]

When Bacchan was studying at the assembly of Masang, Bacchan, he asked him, what is Buddha? Masang said, mind itself is Buddha. Upon hearing these words, Bacchan had realization. Bacchan climbed to the top He ate pine nuts and wore lotus leaves. As there were many lotus plants in a small pond in that mountain, he practiced Zazen for over 30 years and was completely detached from human affairs. Without paying attention to which day it was, he saw only the green and yellow of the surrounding mountains. These were rugged years. Thank you.

[15:15]

I think it's like one pities to imagine what the wind and frost were like. One pities to imagine what the wind and frost were like. OK. During Zanzen, he set an iron stupa of eight in height on his head. He was like wearing a jeweled crown. As his intention was not to let the stupa fall down, he would not sleep. This stupa is kept still in the kitchen of the Fuxian monastery. He practiced in this way continuously without slacking. After many years, a monk of the assembly of Nankong went to the mountain looking for wood to make a step. He lost his way and after a while found himself in front of Fa Chaong. But seeing Fa Chaong, he asked, how long have you been in this mountain? Fa Chaong says, I've seen nothing but the yellow, the green and yellow of the surrounding mountains. The monk said, how do I get off this monk?

[16:29]

Pachang said, follow the stream. Mystified by Pachang, the monk went back and told Nangkwang about him. Pachang said, when I was in Jiangji, I saw a monk like that, but I haven't heard of him since. This might be him. Pachang sent the monk to Pachang and invited him to come to the monastery. Hachang would not leave the mountain and responded with a pulp. A decayed tree remains in the forest. Meeting springs, there is no change of mind. Wood cutters see me, but I ignore them. How come the wood master seeks me out? Hachang stayed in the mountain. Later, when he was about to move deeper into the mine, he wrote this poem. Wearing lotus leaves from this pond, inexhaustible. Eating pine nuts from several trees, still more left.

[17:33]

Having been spotted by people from the world, I'm moving my hut further away. So he moved his abode. Leaderist teacher Matsu said amongst the Baichang to ask him, Reverend, when you studied with Matsu, what did you understand that led you to live on this mind? Baichang said, Matsu said to me, mind itself is Buddha. That's why I'm living here. The monk said, nowadays, Buddha-dharma is different. Bhacan said, how is it different? The monk said, Manzu says, beyond mind, beyond Buddha. Bhacan said, that old man always confuses people. Let it be beyond mind, beyond Buddha. As for me, mind itself is no other than Buddha. The monk brought Bhacan's response to Manzu. Maksu said, the plum is rotten. But Chang's name translated as Great Plum.

[18:36]

This story is not over. This story is widely known among humans and demons. Jiang Long is Fachang's excellent student. Jiang Long's earth is Fachang's Dharma grandchild. Jiang Zheor of Korea transmitted Fachang's Dharma and became the first ancestor of his country. All masters in Korea are Dharma descendants of Fachang. While Fachang was alive, a tiger and an elephant attended him without contending with each other. When he died, the tiger and the elephant tied rocks and mud to help erect a tower for him. This tower still exists in the Husham Monastery. Hacham's sustained practice has been admired by teachers both past and present. Those who do not appreciate him lack wisdom.

[19:40]

To suppose that Buddha Dharma is present in the pursuit of fame and gain is a limited and foolish yield. notable in your mind from that story. Let me use the argument between mind is Buddha, not mind, not Buddha, and then the mind is Buddha argument. It was the argument between the monk who came to visit at five times. That's my turn. Okay. Anyone else? Maybe that you were the only one paying attention.

[20:45]

You have a bad time story. The aesthetic practices got you? They woke up a lot earlier than I did. His commitment to practicing? Did you find yourself admiring it? Disapproving of it? Puzzled by it? moving his hut further away. I don't know.

[21:49]

There was something. I guess I wanted to do that. But I didn't see it. I don't see it necessarily as moving toward practice. I see it as holding a possible paradox of moving away from those things of engagement. wonder about its appropriateness. I'm wondering if it was actually moving towards practice or if it was a distortion about practice. OK. That old man always confuses people. That old mind always confuses people. That old mind always confuses people. for me it better be this very mind is Buddha I thought that was a great line too because the old man can be a symbol for basically all different Dharma talks and advice and this guy's really stuck he's making it his way he's finding his own way it's kind of

[23:18]

The way that moment where it registers, or that place, or that notable experience, that's like a pause. Sometimes we think, well, the pause is something that I do. I pause. I pause me. I pause the world. It's something. But subjectively, in a way, it makes sense. when we bring attention, we can pause. And then there's another way in which when we allow the world to touch it, when we allow the experience of what's present to touch, it creates its own kind of pause just by how it conjures up, whatever it is it conjures up, It's like in reading this story and letting something stand out.

[24:31]

It's like letting something register. It's like letting something cut through. You know, a mind that might be judging or distracted or busy figuring out or approving or disapproving. So not speaking. It's just noting, oh, here's the piece that stood out. And then you may have your theory as to why that stood out. Well, that stood out because I am very impressed by that. Or that stood out because it brought up a strong emotion. Or whatever. Can you see another kind of pause? in contrast to an interjected pause. It's more like the pause comes forth through being available.

[25:34]

And then in that moment, something that which is made manifest, as Larry was saying, you can sort of see the co-creation. There's the teaching presenter. And there's the response to it. Oh, it was something about the way he went deeper in the woods. Oh, it was something about the way, even when he heard the teacher's teaching repeated, he stayed with his own version. Whatever. In that pause, something can be revealed. And it's not something, if you remember way back when Dogen was saying, it's not forced. It's not forced by self. It's not forced by other. It's arising through the co-creation, the co-dependence.

[26:46]

So this is close to the heart of Shikintasa. You don't do shikantaza. Shikantaza doesn't do you. It's not forced by you. It's not forced by others. It arises because that momentary existence is a co-arising. And Dodozenji calls this the samādhi that involves the self, Jiji Ruzamma. I will pick it apart and abuse it. What was the last one you said about Dogen Sanji calls it the Jiju Zanmai? Jiju Zanmai. What was that translated again? Samadhi that employs yourself.

[27:47]

Self-employed Samadhi. It's like something in our own creation. part of the story, all of these wonderful exotic details. I mean, not a single person mentioned the tiger or the lion elephant. And that was the most important part. It's the most unbelievable part. Unbelievable? Yeah. I heard stupid was pretty far out, too. So when he was studying with Matsu, he asked him, what is Buddha? You know, when we pause, or when pause happens,

[28:57]

And the glimmers of awakened existence, awakening existence, the glimmers of not being separate, the glimmers of not forcing it and not being forced by it, they stimulate the inquiry into what is awakened being, what is Buddha. You can say they stimulate the inquiry into how do you enter it, how do you leave it, how does it include all things. So in the moment of pause, the investigation of the Dharma does not ignore the content and it's not mesmerized by the content. then we're caught up in the content oh look that wall is green but there's also the awareness of the consciousness of experiencing groups maybe we could say oh look that wall is green it's the commentary oh that wall is green and that's one of my favorite colors of green it reminds me of

[30:33]

the color of Glasgow Celtics soccer jerseys. I know you're all thinking that. OK, I've got to ask, what color do you use? Well, actually, the Glasgow Celtics soccer jerseys are a lighter color than that. They wear green and white stripes. I wonder what he was laughing at. So, entering the realm of experiencing directly and learning through experience, experiential learning, this is what is Buddha. It's not an abstract question. It's not an academic question.

[31:35]

It's about what the heck are we doing when we do what we call practicing Zen, when we do what we call Zazen, or when Zazen does us, or however, whatever verb you want to give it. What is it that's supposed to happen? What is it that we're aspiring to have happen or hoping will happen? In a way, it's a very pivot point that is the fulcrum of our practice that pivots our activity from karmic involvement the dharmic realization.

[32:41]

It's the organizing principle. You know, we get involved in so many things. Oh, well, let's make up a schedule, and a dozen, and service, and soji, and eat tofu, and, you know, . But it becomes it takes on a particular relevance in relationship to the aspirations of or the expression of awakening. What is Buddha? It's like the organizing principle.

[33:42]

It's the entry point to inquiry. It's the direct realization through experiential learning. It's the organizing principle that guides and sustains continuous practice. So this was a This is a powerful and significant question in the practice of Zen. So the monk comes to Matsu. He's watching his own mind. He's investigating the way. And he likes some guidance. And Matsu says, mind itself is Buddha. Sometimes this is translated as this very mind is Buddha. See how the other translations tell me? Mind here and now is Buddha.

[34:45]

Mind here and now is Buddha. What is Buddha? What is Buddha? Muman comes. It's the very same story. It appears in his Japanese name, Daibe, Great Planet. Daibe asks Vaso, that's Masu. What is Buddha? Vasu answered, this very mind is Buddha. Muman's commentary. If you grasp Vaso's meaning directly, You wear Buddha's clothes. You eat Buddha's food. You speak Buddha's words. You do Buddha's deeds. That is, you yourself are Buddha.

[35:51]

However, alas, Dabai misled not a few by taking the mark on the balance as the weight for itself. How can you realize that even mentioning the word Buddha can make us rinse out our mouths for three days? If a person of understanding hears anyone saying this very mind is Buddha, He should cover his ears and rush away. OK. So what do you have to say to those fine words? Who was the one that said that? That was the person who wrote the commentary on the case. He said the last comment as well. The commentary was his. So there was the case, and then he writes the commentary on it. The question comes to mind, it's a little straight off in the subject, but it makes me think of, they're saying, what is Buddha, and being like Buddha, practicing like Buddha, the historical figure.

[37:00]

But the question came to mind was, why is Buddha Buddha? You're awakening. I know it's a little off the topic. Yeah, it is. Including the historical Buddha, what is Buddha? Including everyone, including this moment, including every moment, including everyone's every moment, what is Buddha? So not simply restricting to the historical Buddha and not so much trying to give it or even conceptual relevance than trying to address and connect to the activity of Buddha.

[38:02]

Do you know what I mean? A little bit. Well, he's not so much asking him for an abstract answer. Well, Buddha is someone who lived, you know, at this time 1500 years before in the northern plains of India. It's not the kind of inquiry, it's not the question being asked, and it's not the flavor of Zen. Zen, both the question and the answer, are trying to actualize the experience of Buddha in the engagement. So it's different to say that. It's not asking what constitutes Buddha, awakening. Constitutes. What constitutes? Buddha. It's a different question than what you're saying. What is Buddha? I'm not sure. I'm not sure what you mean when you say constitutes. Maybe if I could just say it's not someone she's asking for an intellectual or abstract answer.

[39:04]

She's asking for something that will manifest a response to the inquiry. What is it? To be awakened. Sometimes the masters would smack you or ditch you or something, because they didn't want to get into that. Some normalists would go, what is Buddha? And you just, you know, boom, walk out. OK, it's not. Yes. Well, then in Mumon's commentary he said, if you get it, then you eat Buddha's food, you wear Buddha's clothes.

[40:09]

It's like earlier I was saying, what is that organizing principle? Put it another way, what's the difference between... this just being a vegetarian community and this being a practice center. And he's saying, well, in this moment of direct experiencing, in this moment of connectedness, this very mind is Buddha. This very being is Buddha. It's the Buddha of awakening in this moment. And in this moment, You wear Buddha's clothes, you eat Buddha's food, you speak Buddha's words, you do Buddha's deeds. And then, in the service, of not speaking, of not conceptualizing around it, of not making it count for it, but even mentioning the word Buddha, you should rinse your mouth for three days.

[41:24]

And if someone were to say this very mind is Buddha, cover your ears and rush away. Do you think he's saying that because if someone says this very mind is Buddha to someone, they might run off and live in the forest for 30 years wearing lotus leaves? Oh, we'll get to that. It's a dangerous race. Yeah. If someone were wearing Buddhist clothes and drinking Buddhist food, would they ask that question? In the middle of that experience? Maybe the strictest answer is no.

[42:37]

However, it's a little bit like saying it can't be spoken of. But what brings about that direction? experiencing that can't be spoken of. It's a little bit like saying, you can't practice Zen. No one can practice Zen. There is no Zen to practice. You can't criticize Zen. It can't be spoken of. No one can do it. It's not the product of me doing Well, if you think of Mumman's commentary, he says, in this state of being, you eat Buddha's food, you speak Buddha's word.

[43:51]

So, talking can happen in the midst of awareness. Realizing that this is just the momentary expression. That it's not establishing some concrete reality other than just the momentary expression. So asking the question as a momentary expression. And then the teacher answering as a momentary expression. Is that good for one moment or a bunch of moments?

[45:03]

It's a little bit like the Diamond Sutra. In realizing its inherent emptiness, its inherent lack of independent abiding existence, then we can acknowledge it. transitory, momentary existence. That's the consequence of our karmic apprehension. When you realize this is just a dynamic moment, When that is realized, when that realizes you, which is maybe a more correct way to use the language, then that can be a continuation.

[46:20]

So the pause can continue. So you don't have to ask what is through it in the next moment. Do you know Dogen's fascicle Uji? It's about the subjective nature of time. Yeah, for the time. Maybe that's a translation of it. Sometimes it's called being time. But if you think about it, as we experience reality, subjective moment and sometimes it's very fleeting and then sometimes it's not so fleeting sometimes we're brought to stillness by something you're walking in the woods and you turn a corner and there's a composition of life and shadow and form and smells

[47:32]

it without realizing it and that moment has a continuation maybe it's five seconds maybe it's a full 60 seconds so the subjective nature of time the subjective nature of the moment and in that it's not like we're counting one Mississippi, two Mississippi. It just happens. So to realize that, too, that we're more than a little fixated on time as a linear measured event, whereas really our subjective world is not that at all. Sometimes moments rush by. Russian stream and other times the stream stops and that moment just sparkles in a silent still suchness.

[48:52]

So that too. So then what is Buddha lingers and stops and resigns in that stillness too. Sometimes there's that settling stillness and then sometimes it's just a cacophony that's so turbulent it's hard to know is there any way to make contact with it. It's like the colon where I think it's Guishan says the Yangshan principle What do you do when 10,000 things come at you all at once? He says, don't take it personally. Let it happen.

[49:53]

So all this inside, what is within? That's a good question. So certainly in this period of Zen that these two monks lived in, this was classical. Asked again and again and again and again. And then Masu says, this very mind. If you think about it, interesting, if you just think about it in a conventional way, he doesn't say, the mind of eighth jhana. mind of each jhana there's no sense of time no sense of space no sense of self that's Buddha he didn't say that he didn't say it's that timeless moment in the woods where the light the shade the smell the sense of presence is so powerful that everything goes quiet and still

[51:06]

He didn't say that. He said, this very month. He didn't leave the monastery for a moment. He didn't leave here and now for a moment. He said, right here, right now, without movement, without commentary, this is it. It seems related to Mumon's comment about someone mentions the Buddha to whatever that is. Because it's like, if it were anything but that, it's like it's presenting a state to grasp after or something. And the comment, who wants commenting to you about someone, you hear it as something you have to, some special thing you have to get, or something. That's probably related to what you're saying.

[52:08]

So mind is good, but we just very rarely ever feel that way. Yeah. And is it a matter of feeling? Realize that. Exactly. Realize. So even using our intellect and acknowledging, it's not about, do we ever think that way? Do we ever feel that way? It's a realizing, the direct experiencing of thinking and feeling. Okay, and then like all good stories, upon hearing these words, Phak Chang had realization. Okay, so I'll read these words and you can all get enlightened, okay? You ready? What is the disposition that wakes up with the momentary experience?

[53:18]

What is the disposition that lets the arising moment register and quite organically and naturally create false. This is included in what is Buddha. While Fachang was studying with the assembly of Masu, he asked him, what is Buddha? Masu said, mind itself is Buddha. Think about it. Everybody in the assemblies heard the question a hundred times. And they probably heard Masu give the same answer, exactly the same answer, a hundred times, and give variations on the answer a hundred, a hundred times. And still, Pachand hears it and wakes up.

[54:24]

What is that way of entering the moment? What is beginner's mind? What is not knowing? What is each moment arising afresh? What is Buddha? So as he was saying, this question can't be exhausted. There's no end to its applicability. There's no end to what it has to teach. The grand world of sin. Phacang climbed to the top of my dumbness. This is interesting. Then after that terrific, wonderful, edifying realization, He climbed to the manta atop of mantamme and dwelt there in a hut.

[55:29]

He ate pine cones and wore lotus leaves, as there were many lotus plants in a small pond on that mountain. He practiced zazen for over 30 years and was completely detached from human affairs. Without paying attention to what day it was, he saw only the green and yellow. He saw only the mountains it green in the spring and turn yellow in the fall. These were rugged years. So what about that? If as Mumman says, when you realize you wear Buddha's robes, eat Buddha's food and speak Buddha's words, what's all this going off into the mountains and eating pine nuts and wearing leaves for 30 years.

[56:32]

What's the point of being expressed then? Rightening. Rightening. I see. Rightening after realization. Kind of like this sense of like sort of bare. Why is this bare necessity, like, you know, fine-coated alcohol or wearing gold and stuff, like go to sleep and eating pine nuts and doing that for the zazen? So to me, that sort of resume to leave it simple and pure. Simple and pure. So he does that after he attained realization, right?

[57:51]

According to the story. And then what's interesting about all that, I mean, that's natural, I guess, kind of living the way Buddha did before he came to enlightenment, right, historically. Like how he kind of... Living the way before. Before, yeah, which is kind of interesting because Buddha did that before. Afterwards, he was always hanging out with people. Well, that would be an interesting question. Is that Chakyamuni Buddha's before or after enlightenment? From what I remember, I think he lived that way before and afterwards he always had a Sangha around him. Yeah, or so they say. Well, before he was determinedly striving for something that he didn't have. In this case, it's different. Maybe so. Yes, Dan? I'd actually really like to know what he's doing up there because It bugs her.

[58:57]

And it seemed like too much. Too much. Too much what? Too much going off. There was a quality to it that I couldn't connect with at all. It seemed indulgent. It was indulging. What good was it? What good was it? He was indulging in... Unloaded. [...] How he was enjoying.

[60:03]

There's a lot to enjoy up there. What was the other translation? I think he enjoyed it. It was pitiful to imagine. I think they're trying to conjure up something other than, you know, this was in Hawaii. I don't think there's an implication that he went body surfing. The lower cascade. Oh, well, there's endless ways to look at it. But we're just engaging them in the service of waking up.

[61:10]

I mean, whatever ideas or opinions or judgments come into our mind, And they teach us how to practice. Or shall we all just agree? Let's all agree that he was really screwed up. This guy got it totally wrong. He should have gone back into the times. Whatever. He should have done that. So it's renunciation. That's what he was doing. Cool. Maybe it was renunciation. How about this? He realized, and then he had no great agenda about anything. He didn't need a fancy place to live. He didn't need to go off and do this. He had nothing to prove to anybody. But why didn't he leave it all then? Why didn't he what? Why did he need to leave it all then? Might go anywhere.

[62:13]

There's nowhere to go. Well, that's a good question, isn't it? Yeah. The translation of this idea of pity just made me think of a Lakota word that I know, which is , which means basically I am pitiful. Take pity on me. It's a word that's used in invocation, to kind of lay yourself there before creation. And it embodies this sense of pitifulness at the same time. It's asking to take pity upon. I just thought I mentioned that because it seems somehow realistic. Thank you.

[63:14]

I think here what they're trying to say is, and don't think this was easy. Don't think that somehow or another you just thought, well, I'm going to go off and have a real cushy life. No. This was minimal. This was a minimal existence. And by conventional terms, it was rugged and austere. Well, you know, there he heard this and he had realization. I mean, there are degrees of realization. And I think an interesting way of looking at that stream of asceticism is ask, if the Buddha hadn't gone off and done these extreme things, would he have eventually become a light?

[64:20]

Indeed. I think it's a wonderful question, but I would also add, Gary, this story is like after. And there is a theme running through this classical for Dogon. Because if you think back to where he talked about Mahakashava, and he was actually stolen the virtue of Mahakashiva's austerity. And as he goes through this passage, he brings several stories. And he talks about the virtue. In a pretty conventional language, we would say the virtue of austerity. Like Mahakashiva adhering to the 12 rules of the of the mendicant who lives with like human company, with like shelter under trees, all sorts of things without lying dying. And then this one.

[65:26]

But here's what I would say. So noticing how it registers, noticing what your mind inclines to do with it, whether you hold it up in some virtuous way, say, someday I'm going to do that. Or where then you say, this is so misguided. I mean, what the heck are they trying to put across? Or where did you say, oh, well, that was then. In those days, in the eighth century, that was just the thing to do. Now this is . It just wouldn't work. This would be an exotic aberration of modern life. See what your mind does with it because it tells you something about your own inner workings.

[66:33]

That in itself, seeing what your mind does with it, that in itself is a moment of pause. That in itself is a moment of realization. That in itself is bringing forth what is Buddha. That in itself is this very mind is Buddha. And maybe you see something. Well, do I lean towards austerities? Do I exalt them so high that I shrink back in fear or unworthiness? Do I scarn at them as a way in which I think I'm not doing it completely. You know what? A lot of those subtle workings of your own self. And to remember that Zen practice isn't asking you to ferret out being right away. Zen practice is asking you to wake up. Whether you wake up living on pine nuts and wearing lotus leaves

[67:41]

They wake up being Master Ma and saying, this very mind is Buddha, or entering the marketplace, or whatever. In these Zen stories, teachers go up and do all sorts of things. Then another wonderful thing he did. During Zazen, he set an iron stupa of eight inches. I think it's another place he set eight inches. An iron stupa of eight inches set it on his head and wore it like a jewel to crime. As his intention was not to let the stupa fall down, he would not sleep. The stupa still had it in the kitchen of the Gusheng Monastery. Practice this way continuously without slacking.

[68:44]

So there's another interesting detail for you. Anyone have any words of praise or use with regard to practice? It just seems like a needle, like a sort of like a scale or something. And it just seems like he, like the thing about the elephant and the tiger not contending with each other. It seems like whatever he does, whatever's around him reaches some kind of stabilization or something. And the image of the stupa just feels kind of like a needle at zero or something. But he just seemed very interested in like, finding that point of neutrality and that that sort of rubbed off on people around him.

[69:49]

It's a good way to practice posture. Rev used to do that, right? Put a brick on his head. You can do that. Anybody can do that. It's good. You don't want to lean back side to side. Put a brick on your head. break falls off, you're leaning forward. Yes? I was thinking about Thomas Merton. And he lived in community for such a long time, but he kept having this longing, this heart longing to be more of a hermit. So I feel like he's finding his way. He's taking up these things. He's just searching for the way. And these were the ways that were available to him. And what's it tell you about your way? To really listen to what I need and to find it.

[70:54]

Like, even though Merton's heart was desiring to live as a hermit, for many, many years he wasn't allowed to do that. So he had to keep finding his way within the conditions that he was in. But to keep listening and to just be true. So I would say, what does it tell you about your way? Okay. After many years, a monk from the assembly of Nang Kwan went to the mountain looking for words to make a step. He lost his way and after a while found himself in front of Phat Chang's hut. Seeing Bhacchan, he asked, how long have you been on this mountain? Bhacchan said, I've seen nothing but the green and yellow of the surrounding mountains. Let me see if I can find another translation.

[71:59]

I've only seen the mountains all around go from green to yellow. I've only seen the mountains all around go from green to yellow. I guess that's what it would be saying. Maybe that's what it's saying. How long have you been here? I can't put it into numbers. It just turns from green to yellow and from yellow to green. So in response to that, how do I get out of here? You know those moments where you think, oh, this is so great.

[73:02]

Can I leave now? I love that. When's the bell going to ring? How can I get off this one? So then you have to let your mind get a little bit tricky here. Because you have both the conventional statement. How do I... I came up here looking for a piece of wood. I got lost. How did I get home? How did I get off the mountain? And then the conventional answer is, well, the streams flow down the hill. It's pretty obvious. Follow the stream. But then what if that symbolic talk talks about the Dharma? Why is it to descend the mountain? Why is it to follow the stream?

[74:03]

For me, what it evokes is the monk being up there, just being unaware, being kind of in timelessness, you know, of things just changing colors and not really counting. And then the other person going, you know, how do I get home? How do I get off of here and go back? into the world, you know, and then just follow the stream. And it just evokes like just just be with, you know, what is, you know, be with what the stream of the mind or the stream of being going back down. Excellent. The question of when you go up the mountain from right now and down and see what it means, and that you're not feeling like that.

[75:45]

Then you're not feeling like that. You're not feeling like that. You're not feeling like you're not feeling like that. It's to go up the mountain, to leave the hustle and bustle, to leave the busyness, the distractiveness, the preoccupations, and in the clarity and simplicity to realize and then re-enter. And then you think how this story, First of all, he awakens, and then he goes, oh, come on. And then he says, come and dine? No way. I'm not going dine. You're going further back. Yeah, I'm going. And then in this little piece, the monk comes and says, well, how do I go back? And he says, follow the strength. And then as you say, well,

[76:47]

That's the stream of being, the way. And then you can turn it around. When Chakyamuni awakened, he throws the bowl into the river, and it flows upstream. It doesn't go downstream. In fact, the more usual archetype is, well, where do you go upstream? Where do you end up? Well, you end up in the mind. So you want to go down the mine, and we'll just follow the screen. So all sorts of provocative and infristine imagery. Mystified by . The monk went back and told him,

[77:49]

Yang Quan about him. And Yang Quan said, ah, when I was in Jiangshir, I knew a monk like that, but I haven't heard of him since. Maybe this might be him. So he sent the monk back to Fa Chang and invited him to come to the monastery. And Fa Chang said, no way. Instead, he responded with a bow. The hay tree remains in the cold forest. Meeting springs, there's no change of mind. Woodcutters see me, but I ignore them. How come the wood master seeks me up? I want to read you a different translation. I came across four translations, and each one comes up different from the others. A dead tree in a mountain recess passed many a spring and had no change of mind.

[79:02]

No minded change. The woodcutters ignored it. People find no way to approach it. Here's another translation. In a cold forest there are no uncut trees. Having met many springs, my heart remains unmoved. Even the woodcutter is not interested in the wood. So how can a carpenter have use of it? So how can the carpenter have use of it? the imagery of there's an imagery in Zen of the dead tree, the withered tree.

[80:24]

Some other stories can say the leaves fall off. That's the falling off of attachments. So the dead here is talking about when attachments fall away and then time just come and goes things just happen and nothing gets stirred up having met many springs my heart remains unmoved and then In this simple way, there's no sense of gaining something or having to accomplish something. The woodcutter is even interested. It's not like they're trying to get at something or prove something or accomplish something.

[81:30]

The woodcutter doesn't want to. The carpenter doesn't want to. So this is his point. And then he decided, apparently, in sharp contrast to re-entering the marketplace, going down the mountain, he decided he could go further up the mountain. Later, when he was about to move deeper into the mountain, he wrote this poem. Wearing lotus leaves from the pond, inexhaustible. Eating pine nuts from several trees, still more of that. having been spotted by people from the world moving my hut further away. So what do you make of that one? At first, I was sort of sympathizing with Dana.

[82:35]

I was thinking, jeez, man, you know. He's just indulging his practice. I'm so good at this. I'm just going to do it more and be better at it. But actually, I can't say that he's abandoning sentient beings because the woodcutters are still seeking him out. Here we are in 2007 talking about this big club guy. So how about that? Yeah, how about that? Or as says, his was the lineage that has become the pervasive lineage of Korea. Yeah, how does that happen? if he disappeared, who did he transmit him?

[83:41]

Well, it was that tiger in that outfit. I think he keeps drawing people further in. Yeah, like us. He skipped on a little bit, and he does say, this story was widely known among humans and demons. Chanlong is Phatchan's excellent student. Chanlong's early Jiu-Jiu is Phatchan's Dharma grandchild. Jiu-Jiu of Korea transmitted Phatchan's Dharma and became the first ancestor of his country for that time. So he's a Phatchan student. He has excellent students. Any other comments on this poem? Well, it reminded me of the stories of Master Antifa.

[84:46]

So after he had realization, he kind of went back and forth several times, like going back to the mountains and coming out to the monasteries in his 50s, 60s. He did it several times. And he lived in the mountains, and lived in a cave, and went into samadhis for many days, and animals left footprints around his caves. Stories like that. But he came out eventually and taught many, many wonderful students. So I just thought. Maybe this story was just like a snapshot of his life, and we don't know what happened for the rest. It wasn't like you did this his whole life, but he did it for 30 years.

[85:47]

He might have been 20 when he started. According to Govian, he did it for, he practiced for over 30 years. So for 30 years, he did this. Just a passing face. That last poem could be more metaphorical about how he continued to practice non-attachment even in the midst of being approached teaching or whatever he may have done, even on the mountain. People often went to mountains to see teachers. Yeah. Somehow, the way it's written up, Ben Dogen goes on to say, so he moved his abode. Later, his teacher Masu sent a monk to Fa Chang to ask him. So apparently, they were still able to track him down. Reverend, when you studied with Master Masu, what did you understand that led you to live on this mountain?

[86:57]

And then it's like, OK, now we're getting there. Now it's all, you know, it's like, OK. Pachang said, Masu said to me, mind itself is Buddha. That's why I'm living here. Mind itself is Buddha. That's why I came up the mountain and stayed here for 30 years. The monk said, nowadays Buddha dharma is different. What a great line. Nowadays it's different. Those were the old days. Worked on it a little now. What way is it different? The monk said, Matsu says, beyond mind, beyond Buddha. What Chang said, that old man always confuses people.

[88:01]

Let it be beyond mind, beyond Buddha. As for me, mind itself is more than the Buddha. The monk brought Vakchang's response to Matsu. Matsu said, the plum is like it. Nowadays the Buddha Dharma is different. Is what we're practicing different from what Shakyamuni practice? I'm just thinking of a documentary I saw about the Dalai Lama. And he has a commentary throughout when you're taking him to various festivals. Anyway, part of his commentary is that a lot of things are outdated.

[89:06]

And we should just drop them. And I'm paraphrasing. But he did say outdated. Yes. One example is the example of women not being able to be priests, for example. He said, oh, well, that's outdated. And people would bring up these examples. These are outdated. However, this monk said the Buddha Dharma. The Buddha Dharma is different. The Buddha Dharma is different. I realize it's a different content, but that was my appreciation. Thank you. I appreciate that. Everything changes. Everything changes. That's an interesting statement.

[90:07]

But I still ask, is the practice we're doing, is that different? Is the buddha dharma that we're practicing different from the buddha dharma that Shakyamuni practiced? Oh, this version says, these days, his buddha dharma. These days, what? His. So he's, in this version, his Buddha Dharma, his teaching is different. There are multiple ones? There are multiple ones? His way of expressing it. How is it different? Basso says, it's neither mine nor Buddha. The master said, that old man, He'd like to disturb others. I have no sympathy for him. Never mind about neither the mind nor Buddha. For me, it's just that the mind here and now is Buddha.

[91:16]

The monk reported these words to Vasso. Vasso said, the fruit of the plum is matured. is utterly and completely devoted to continuous practice we just say what does it mean to say that Buddha Dharma is different what does it mean to say beyond mind, beyond Buddha what is it to say that confuses people for me it's just mind itself is no other than Buddha. And how come when Masu heard this guy make that comment? He spoke words of praise. And after all, he did say that Masu's out there confusing people.

[92:22]

So by What is it to engage the comments in a way that opens, that awakens, that stirs up the activity of mind that allows the Dharma to write? What is it to actualize this very mind, this Buddha? What is it to actualize neither mind nor Buddha? there. You can work on that. Got it? Yeah. And if I hear, if I read in the Chronicle that every single one of you have gone to the hill, and I'm wearing lotus leaves, and eating time nights,

[93:29]

What were you saying? I'll think that was a heck of a classic. Thank you.

[93:38]

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