Morning. Not sure if that was a false start or not, but we'll get used to this again. What a treat. I didn't know when I was kindly asked by the Tonto Ana to give a talk that it would be this occasion where we get to see each other and be with each other and get that limbic resonance going again. So welcome those of you who are here and haven't been here for a while. And I hope it's a deeply satisfying new beginning and encourages you to keep coming back and tasting what's offered. So again, thank you, Ana, for this invitation. And thanks to the Abbots and the senior teachers and all of my teachers for inviting me to share with you what it is I'm thinking about.

[18:19]

And even though this is a new moment where we're coming back together, I think my questions are old questions. So let's see how they resonate. By the way, my name is Susan O'Connell, and I'm a teacher here and have been living at the Zen Center. I'm in my 26th year, something like. This is home. And what I'm interested in is what it means to practice. And what makes our practice possible when struck at the core with major loss. What does it mean when we say I have a practice or. We're going to practice with anger. If we're experiencing something difficult, we say it's good for our practice.

[19:24]

We say that a lot around here. Let's look at the dictionary and see how practice is defined. It can be a verb. To perform an activity or exercise a skill repeatedly or regularly in order to improve or maintain one's proficiency. like practicing the piano or soccer. So it can be a doing. Another dictionary definition of practice says that it means the actual application or use of an idea, belief or method as opposed to theories relating to it. So it can be an orientation or an attitude. We can have a practice like the practice of medicine or the practice of meditation.

[20:27]

It can be a having. And I would add something that wasn't in the dictionary definition. I think it's something we're often trained to do by a teacher or a mentor. As a child, I was told to pray. And given some physical instructions. Kneel down and put your hands like this. And I was given some words to use. God bless mommy and daddy. And maybe my brother John. But as I grew up, there was no further instruction about what it meant when people said, let us pray. Besides a kind of vague impression that it meant to open one's heart in supplication, sort of to ask for something.

[21:29]

That's what I picked up without anyone telling me that. I was drawn to Zen one day when I encountered a teacher whose presence was palpable. I wasn't sure what it was at the time. But it felt different. And I knew that whatever that was, that was something that I wanted to develop for myself. And on the same day I met the teacher, I was given meditation instruction. It seemed quite different from supplication. And it was called a practice. I began this practice in 1989, at first sporadically as I was living my life in the world and running my company. And then after moving into Zen Center in 1995, I started the practice devotedly.

[22:37]

And at Zen Center here, I was exposed to Buddhist teachings. the most basic of which are the Four Noble Truths. How many people here have heard of the Four Noble Truths? Maybe put your hands down. How many have not heard of the Four Noble Truths? A few, okay. Well, I'm going to give you a very quick overview because there's a part of the Four Noble Truths I wanna talk about regarding practice. So the... The human being we now call the Buddha, the awakened one, was dedicated to finding how to end suffering for beings. And after many attempts to discover the root cause, he, according to our teachings, sat down under a tree and determined to not move until he had the answer.

[23:44]

And the result of this dedication, this, I guess, effort was an experience. Of how being a human being works. And then he was able to put this discovery into four simple truths, which he then shared with his friends and students. So noble truth number one. Human life includes quite a bit of suffering. sometimes defined as dissatisfaction. So the word in Sanskrit is dukkha, and it's onomatopoetic in that it comes from the sound that a wheel makes when it's out of round. So dukkha, [...] something's off. That's what's being communicated with these words, suffering, dissatisfaction, dukkha. Sound familiar?

[24:47]

So truth number two, there's a cause of this dissatisfaction, which is the never ending wish or the craving for things to be different than the way they are. For good things to never change and for unpleasant things to permanently go away. This is also known as delusional thinking. We think we can impede the constant change that is the nature of life. We're into control. Number three, truth number three is very, very hopeful because it says since there's a cause, craving, there's a cure. which begins with being aware of the impossibility of permanence. We can't do this thing that we always try to do.

[25:53]

It doesn't work. So being aware of that is the cure. And in aware in what way? We develop the skills of being present, open, flexible, and upright so that we can actually move with life itself instead of looking for ways to obstruct or push. So that's the cure. But the fourth noble truth is called the Eightfold Path. And it supports this investigation of suffering and the causes and the cure with techniques or practices contained in I'm just going to say them quickly because you could do a lecture on each one of these. Right view, right understanding, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration.

[26:59]

And to make it a little easier for this talk, those are clumped into three different categories. Wisdom practices. ethical conduct practices and mental discipline. So the truth of suffering is why we practice. And the cure to human suffering is realized through the development of wisdom practices, ethical conduct and mental discipline. That's the proposal. The other thing I want to mention, however, is that. All of the teachings that come to us are up for question. That's one of my favorite things about Buddhism. The Buddha said, don't believe me. Check it out for yourself. So be investigative of anything I say today and anything else.

[28:02]

Check it out for yourself. So far, my repeated experience is that these simple teachings do help me work with the complexities of my human life and be more beneficial to people around me. So. Back to the question. What is practice and what supports it? What would you say if I asked you, what is your practice? Would you automatically look at your seated meditation practice? Is it following your breath? Is it visualizing a peaceful place? Is it mostly daydreaming and planning? Can you only practice being still and curious when you're on the cushion? My understanding of practice is this right now.

[29:08]

This is my current understanding of practice. It's being present with whatever thoughts, feelings or sensations are arising. But it's being present in a particular way. An intimate, nonjudgmental way. And practicing like this on the cushion. and in everyday life. It's not limited to the cushion. My root teacher, Tension Reb Anderson, used to describe it this way. It is meeting whatever comes with no complaints whatsoever. To me, practice means paying intimate attention to Not turning away from something that's causing me discomfort or anxiety or pain.

[30:11]

There's also a similar way to practice with pleasure. That's another whole talk. So being intimate with not turning away from paying attention to. That which is. But and this is this is a subtlety, but it's I think it's quite important, not just paying attention to the content of the thoughts. Or calculating the causes of the situation. Besides being intimate and nonjudgmental, the attention of practice involves slowing down. and relaxing just enough for the energy of habits to fall away into the background and allow the shifting of the attention to ever-present awareness.

[31:20]

This shift away from habitual responses So and now we're back. OK, thank you, Internet. And hello to the people out there. I was so focused on those of us sitting face to face. I know you wish you were here or this is the best way for you to be here is where you are now. So welcome. So this this shifting away from habitual responses allows for the possibility of a more creative. Appropriate, maybe kind. maybe kinder, maybe more truthful and beneficial response. We think about that. We have habits. Some of them are beneficial. Some of them are not. Practice allows us to shift focus and to be supported by what is actually there, not our kind of dusty eye look.

[32:40]

at what we are used to seeing and therefore can only see the habitual. So that's my current definition of practice. And this practice is supported by consideration of and sort of study of all of the aspects of the Eightfold Path, the wisdom teachings, the ethical conduct teachings, and the mental discipline. But are there aspects of the path that might be particularly helpful when meeting deep grief or when multiple difficulties arise at once? How can we not be thrown off of our commitment to meet what is arising? What do we do with the arising of panic or despair?

[33:44]

How can we keep from turning away? Or if we do turn away, if we lose touch with our stability, our open hearts, how can we return to balance and presence and gratitude and hear the music, like the music outside? How do we practice with what Jon Kabat-Zinn refers to as full catastrophe living? I've recently had some personal challenges and struggles with meeting grief. I experienced the deaths of two beloved family members in a 10 day period. And there were moments when I experienced an inability to stay intimate with the physical disorientation that was arising.

[34:48]

It was a visceral situation. Wasn't just a thought. One of these beloved beings was my brother. And the other was my sweet puppy of 13 and a half years. And one night when I was going to bed, I had a visceral experience of panic. And I was suddenly aware that the space, my little apartment, I've shared with him all that time, that the space I live in was a completely different shape and structure. Now that he was no longer in it. There was nothing to rely on. There was a groundlessness. because it was just like everything shifted. And I was alone in my apartment and I didn't feel ready to tolerate the groundlessness or to turn towards it.

[35:51]

So what did I do? I distracted myself and I binge watched Netflix until I was so tired that I couldn't not fall asleep. So it was it was, you know, I don't know what that was, but that's what happened that I wasn't able to turn towards it, which is part of why I'm investigating this right now. So what helps us not turn away in these situations? And while we want to find we can find encouragement and strength from parts of the Eightfold Path like. ethical conduct, which gives us the stability and courage and humility to meet our lives and our relationships, or from the wisdom practice of right view, which is the realization of the way things are. I've been focusing on one of the mental disciplines, something called right effort.

[36:56]

And right effort, I'll describe as a kind of Balanced middle way. In which correct effort is balanced against relaxed acceptance. It's a tricky balance. It's a koan. This is the effort we need in order to be mindful or aware of what we're thinking, feeling, saying, and doing in each moment. Needs an effort there. I'm going to call it today patient effort. Patient effort to me means acceptance of things as they are. A patience that's both wise and compassionate and persistent. It's a mental discipline. And I'm considering this as an important aspect of the path to strengthen

[38:01]

Because it's helped me in other difficult situations. So I'm going to tell a story I've told before in a talk. It's very short, but it's apropos. Three years ago, I had breast cancer. And I was offered chemotherapy and radiation. But the radiation involved implanting this kind of lozenge that was shaped a little bit like a pen light. into the soft tissue of my body and it needed to remain there for seven days. While I went in and out of radiation and they sent stuff down the wires and then taped them back to my body and sent me home. Every ounce of my being wanted to expel it. My mind really wanted to turn towards the idea of being invaded. So visceral response and with kind of a mental support that was looking to really underline that response.

[39:05]

And panic was right there. But because I was committed to the treatment, committed to continuing good health, I was able to use concentration practices to keep my mind focused on being able intimate with this lozenge for seven days. I was able to acknowledge the physical sensation of panic and find a way to patiently and consistently tolerate it. Toleration is a step towards patience. And this kind of patient effort is not passive. It's motivated by an active tolerance of and compassion for the suffering rather than the desire to eradicate it. Once we adjust our urge to move away from the tension and make the effort to pay attention to the tension, we're more able to focus on the sensations, the emotions, the nature of the discomfort.

[40:24]

We can locate the desire to pull away, the urge to change it. Have you ever noticed that if you pay attention to the person in the room who's making a lot of noise and waving their hands around, et cetera, wanting to be seen, you pay attention to them, they calm down. It's the same process. You pay attention to that arising of discomfort. and it calms down. Instead of trying to feed or block the desire to get rid of discomfort, we can simply and kindly examine it. We can focus our attention on the desire to change the situation itself rather than the object of the desire. Does desire have a shape or a color? Where does it come from? Where does it live? Where does it go when it vanishes? Is it burning like a fire or is it pulling us like a rope?

[41:27]

The practice is to stay with tension and study it. In all its subtleties. Don't elaborate or maybe even name it. And this is not about sheer will. It's soft acceptance of tension. It's not turning away. It's patient effort. So just a little bit more is about intention and compassion. So generosity, compassion and forgiveness and renewed intention are necessary parts of patient effort because we are often not able to turn towards it. In my recent encounter with panic around loss, I didn't feel able to turn towards it.

[42:32]

This happens to all of us. And in retrospect, I am kindly, forgivingly asking myself, what was the difference between the situation during radiation and the recent one with grief? What supported the energetic response to the cancer treatment? One difference might be that I was doing the treatments in order to stay alive so that I could finish the project I'm working on. And the project appears to be beneficial to many beings. So that kind of bodhisattva vow was guiding me, was energizing me in that situation. So it was connected to my vow to be of benefit. Also, it was in the realm of awareness of death. Very strong motivator. I'm headed in about a year to Enso Village, our Zen inspired senior living community that we're developing with partners in Healdsburg.

[43:38]

And living with aging, mine and others, is going to involve more and more exposure to loss. And one of the benefits of getting older is that we hear the clock ticking. which highlights the importance of developing a compassionate and demonstrable way to meet big difficulties, such as grief and loss. And if we're fortunate, to be able to be present with our own death. When Ram Dass had a stroke many years ago, he related that as he was being rolled into the hospital on the gurney, he said to himself, Now I really need to start to practice. Can you imagine, you know, this amazing being devoted his life has a stroke and he's not ready for it and turns away from it.

[44:40]

Falls into the panic that that might bring up. And also Suzuki Roshi was standing around watching students at Tassajara jump into the creek near the Narrows. And it looked like so much fun. He jumped in, forgetting he didn't know how to swim. And he stayed at the bottom for a bit. And the students allegedly thought, oh, he's being a Zen master. But then someone noticed that he'd been down there for too long and jumped in, pulled him out. A few days later, after that, there's a talk he gave at Tassajara in which he says, Now I really need to start to practice. So these are reminders. These are, you know, to be jolted with grief and loss are wonderful wake up calls, wake up calls. So how will we together explore and strengthen the practice that can help us meet each minute?

[45:52]

of our precious human life with no complaint whatsoever. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. So thank you for paying attention. I think we're going to do the chant now. Is this happening? And then you'll have a moment to just sort of Pretzel your legs and we can have a back and forth question and answer if you'd like. Is that right? Okay. So the chant. May our intention equally extend to every being and place. With the true merit of Buddha's way. Beings are numberless, I vow to save them.

[46:59]

Delusions are inexhaustible, I vow to end them. Dharmai beings are numberless, I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I am bound to be coming. It's okay. I was waiting for the microphone. Maybe you want to stay. We've got about 10 minutes for questions. I GUESS I WAS WAITING FOR THE MICROPHONE TO COME ONLINE SO WE'LL HAVE A SHORT STRETCH BREAK AND ALSO NOW THAT WE'RE BACK IN PUBLIC WE ARE DOING TEA AND COOKIES AGAIN AND THAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE COURTYARD EVENTUALLY PLEASE ONLY EAT IN THE COURTYARD AND ALSO LUNCH IS NOT YET AVAILABLE WE'RE STILL INCREMENTALLY OPENING UP

[48:12]

Should I go get my Zaku now or? No. Okay. All right. Okay. Formal exit. Do you have to leave at 11, Susan? No. Okay. So we have a question from the chat. Okay. Amy, let's see if you're able to. Yeah. Good morning. Oh, hello. Hi, Amy. Hello, Susan. Thank you for inspiring me with your vulnerable courage. I, too, am in a moment of shock from the impact of multiple afflictions. I have lung cancer. I broke my left hand, which is my dominant hand, you know, one thing after the other. your words about being intimate with not turning away from anxiety because that's where I find myself if something else isn't in motion.

[49:31]

My question or where I am with sort of the edge of my understanding is between seeing gratefully, the moment when suffering ceases. But that seems mostly like a gift and having a true understanding or knowledge of the path to that cessation. I see I don't really embody in my heart and body the understanding of the path to that liberation, although I experience it with practice.

[50:34]

You know, a moment when self-pity fades, which I can hear my voice in passage, and gratitude emerges. And I was wondering if you could sort of speak to that, what in some ways is a nuance to me, the difference between seeing a liberation and understanding the path to liberation, which is not a nuance. I think it's really radical, especially in my life. Amy. You know, I'm not going to go directly into it because you asked several different things. I'm going to say something that I didn't mention specifically, but I referred to, which is, and I'm coming across this quite a bit.

[51:36]

As I age and I meet other people who are older, there is this deep, deep desire to figure it all out before we die. to be completely awake and aware and to understand the essence of the teachings and to embody it all. This is coming towards me quite a bit. And I think that when Enzo Village is up and running, there are going to be a lot of people who are trying to figure out what is the path towards liberation. I want that. I want that. Unfortunately, the wanting is the problem. The wanting tightens us. The wanting puts the understanding out there. It separates us from just being. And I know that it sounds simple and it's not. So so my intuition right now is to is to instruct and to help people not reach so so desperately.

[52:48]

Now, I'm not saying you're desperate, but I keep feeling people's really, really wanting something before we die. And the first step is to settle into where you are right now, because this is what you got. This is what we have. Let's work with this. So that isn't exactly an answer to you. You asked various questions in there, and I'd be happy to meet with you separately and talk about it. It's very wise and I thank you. Anyone in the room is welcome to offer and anyone in the Zoom room as well. Leo. Hi, Susan.

[53:51]

Hi, Leo. These are all people I know. That's so sweet. Really beautiful to be with you here. Thank you for the talk. You're welcome. Besides the really wanting, which I do experience, sometimes I experience a, it feels like the opposite, which is an apathy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so there's like practice and then there's like not caring about practice, not caring about the other person, not caring about doing the work. And so I'm practicing becoming intimate with that apathy. And then sometimes I just don't care enough to become intimate with that apathy. Yeah. And so I'm just wondering if you could speak to how you might meet that. I don't, I haven't experienced you as someone with a lot of apathy. It's not a bias of yours, but I'm just wondering if that does come up and how you work with it.

[54:59]

Sometimes it takes just the right amount of pain. So If it's kind of neutral and if the situation is kind of neutral and there's no like reason to make the effort because, you know, I'm just feeling kind of blah. And that's OK with me. That's harder to work with than if it kind of moves over into the territory of ouch, you know, I didn't pay attention to that being. And they just insulted me. Because I wasn't, you know, they needed to get my attention and they got it in an unskillful way. And here we are. Right. So the kind of more intense things that have been happening to me have ratcheted up my wish to understand better what will support me more. So I don't, you know, how do I work with apathy? I binge watch Netflix.

[56:08]

You know, I lose the moment. I miss the moment that I'm committed to not miss. So there's a bit of regret in there. Regret helps. Regret helps and then confess and repent. Right. Those steps that we need to line ourselves back with our intention, back up with our intention. So if it doesn't hurt enough, it's harder to work with. But you're already thinking about it, which is a big step. You're aware that there are times that it just, the energy isn't there. Sometimes we need more sleep. Sometimes we need a cup of coffee, you know. Sometimes we need support from our friends or a family to remind us of our intention. I hope that helps. It does. Thank you, Susan. You're welcome.

[57:16]

A brief moment for anyone in the hall. And we have Terri in the Zoom. Terri? I know everybody that's on the... Is that you, Terri, Terri? Yes, it is. That's you. Yes, it is. I had a recent experience, a very intense encounter with someone on the street and suffering. And I feel I handled it very well. Good. How'd you do that? Well, I realized he didn't need what he did not want my help. Yeah. I mean, I came to it with this feeling of I have to help this person.

[58:16]

And I saw that he didn't. I mean, he wanted me to be there with him. I mean, this is somebody, a young man lying out on this flat on the sidewalk with a terrible injury. And it turned out he had just checked himself out of the hospital. And. I couldn't even help him get up. He wanted, you know, and I was, in other words, I was very open and sensitive to him. I really feel like I was practicing almost in spite of myself. And I mean, you know, I got him some, I bought him a cup of coffee, but I think the main thing that happened was I got, woke him up and, and I showed him concern. And and walked with him from the cold sidewalk in the shade to the grass and the sun.

[59:19]

And and then he laid down and he didn't. That was the encounter was over, really. But I feel I have my question is, I just keep savoring that experience. Of course, I have this terrible deep compassion for him. It was just. Very sad story behind his disability. Anyhow. But also, I guess I'm proud of myself. That's totally fine, Terry. What happened was your habit of helping, right? Yeah. Went into the background, and you just paid attention to what was going on and the signals he was getting you that he didn't want particular kinds of help. that you would maybe normally fall into. So you had a creative experience and, and, and savoring that and reminding ourselves that that can happen is totally great.

[60:22]

You know, that's, that's another thing is like, let's underline the things that worked. I mean, I told that story again about the lozenge because that worked for me. And I want to remind myself that that worked. Yeah. So congratulations. And thank you for helping him. In the way he wanted to be helped. I just, yeah, I didn't. Finally, I only figured out in retrospect, he just wanted to stay out of the hospital. I said, you have to go to the hospital. I have to get a cab. And then finally realizing, oh, he didn't want to. And then realizing he would go back when he was ready. He wanted to experience a day away from the hospital. Thank you. Thank you very much for helping him. Yeah. I want to thank him for it was a great experience for me to not help him. And we have a question in the chat that I will read.

[61:28]

Somebody also lost a close relative and is in the process of losing a sibling. And They say they're feeling they're getting back into practice, but are feeling numb and sluggish. And how do we accept things for what they are is the final question. Well, don't push. You're feeling numb and sluggish. Like what Leah was asking, there's that apathy, right? You know, in Zazen, the instruction when we tend to have a kind of a sleepy mind and have a lower energy and having a hard time staying awake, there's a couple of suggestions of how to work with that. One is raise your eyes higher up on the wall. So if you're looking down at a 45, like make that effort, slight effort to raise one's eyes that generates some energy.

[62:33]

The other suggestion is run around the block. Run around the block. So that emotional dullness, that sense of despair and everything, it's hard to keep that up when you run around the block. So there are antidotes. But the other is stay with it. Be kind to it. Take care of the apathy. And then it will change. It will definitely change. And you don't know when. And we have two people in the Zoom with their hands raised. And you got a thank you and a heart from the question asker there. We have two people with their Zoom hands raised. And I think we will cap it there. We are currently doing a 20-minute Q&A session for the Saturdays going forward.

[63:38]

So Xinxi. Good morning, teacher. It's Xinxi Aida. And I'm just grateful, so grateful, again, to be honored in this lifetime, in this earth body, to have the opportunity to work with my cause and conditions and your cause and conditions. And I pray, I'm just so grateful for your vulnerability and the heart-mind offerings that you share with all of us and how that has such a ripple effect as lay practitioners. And just quickly wanna say that I, in the last two days have had an opportunity to stay with the tension and feel, go through the whole process of working with karmic paths to hold boundaries, be skillful, meet tension, hear your voice as I was working with the return to

[65:00]

homeostasis as you saying, be kind, be kind to yourself, be kind, and then returning, returning to the physical space and returning with gratitude for trying out new habits, creating new habits and equally being upright with sharing with the other beings that witnessed my interaction where I fell short or where I'm growing in my skillful action. So I just am so grateful that we have teacher-student relationships and that there's teachers that are very vulnerable to share what they're experiencing so that we can offer respect and embody this humanity, this shared humanity.

[66:03]

So again, just profound gratitude to be alive with you at this point and to get to share with all these other beings who are touched by this, this dharma story. Much gratitude. Thank you, Ida. And we have a comment in from Brent who first wants to offer his appreciation to you, but also is reminding us that you and actually Leo gave the first pandemic Dharma talk. That's right. And now you are giving the first reopening Dharma talk and is expressing appreciation for that month of May or March of 2019 or 2020. We were doing a short intensive and And Leo and I gave the talk here on, and we had to change everything because like all of a sudden COVID, it was quite something.

[67:07]

And now here we back, it didn't occur to me. Thank you. Thank you. And Carol in the Zoom. Okay. So Susan, I'm someone you don't know, but I think you will get to know probably I'm on my way to end so. Okay. And I wanted to say how I loved your talk and the part about this desire to figure it all out. I'm going now through, as it turns out, I have letters, correspondence from my grandmother, my mother, and of course my own. And I'm kind of trying to figure it all out. the way is just to be, to be here and maybe to sit more because it's, it's becoming quite overwhelming. I just, just the business of sorting through things and thinking about what do I want to take to Hildesburg and what can I leave behind?

[68:16]

And, you know, so anyway, I'm very glad you'll be part of my future. You know, I just had this thought. I don't know. It doesn't quite apply, but it's like when that overwhelming thing happens, right? It's like, okay, it's happening because we are thinking globally, right? Let's act locally. Let's find something to do in the moment. You know, sort those papers with those letters. Don't try to understand it all at once. And, you know, narrow the focus so that we can go deep instead of wide. Maybe that's an answer. I don't know. IT IS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, CAROL. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. YOU WANT ONE MORE? SURE. OKAY. HELLO. I APPRECIATE YOUR TALK. MY NAME IS LIAM. I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD SAY ANYTHING ABOUT GUILT OVER A PAST LOVED ONE LIKE YOURSELF.

[69:19]

MY TWO PETS DIED WITHIN the same week and a half. And one of them was ready to go. My dog, he just stopped eating and for five or six days. And so he said, okay, but my second pet, I don't know. I just, I keep coming back to it once in a while. It's like, I could have done this. I could have spent more money on treatment. I could have, you know, at what point I, you know, Do you have any approaches to personal guilt like that? I do. When you say you could have done this, you could have done it. No, you couldn't have. You did exactly what you could do. And there are causes and conditions that made that exactly what you could do. I think we're always doing our best. And it may, you know, in retrospect, it's like, oh, that didn't look so good, right?

[70:23]

It was your best. Because if you could have done something better, you would have. So there are restraints. There are conditions. It's not a perfect world. We're not always completely generous because of various causes and conditions that have limited us in some way. And we've got, you know, we see it. Let's work on it now. Let's stay in the present with, maybe there is something that you're thinking, maybe I could be a little bit better at this. Okay, check it out. Now. But you did, you know, I did everything I could do for my beloved brother and my daughter. And you can settle in that and you can take comfort in that. And you can learn from. this niggling idea of maybe you could have done better. We're like, what's that? What's that about? What can I look at now?

[71:23]

And get support to look at it. Okay. All right. All right.

[71:34]

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