Welcome to the Wednesday night talk at the San Francisco Zen Center. Tonight's talk will be given by Gil Fransdahl. Gil is a former resident of the Zen Center. He is a lineage holder, a Dharma heir of Mel Weitzman, and also a teacher in the insight meditation Vipassana lineage. He's been teaching down the peninsula in Redwood City, my hometown, for many years. and also has Insight Retreat Center in Santa Cruz. And so it's a great treat to have him here. And I will offer the opening chant and then we will begin. An unsurpassed, penetrating and perfect dharma is rarely met with even in a hundred thousand million Kalpas, having it to see and listen to, to remember and accept.

[11:03]

I vow to taste the truth of the Tathagata's words. Thank you very much for having me. And I feel honored to be here in Christina's and Tova's practice period. And I understand that the theme of the practice period is refuge. And so I think that's the expectation that I'll speak about this as well. And before I continue, it'd be nice to be reassured that you can hear me well enough. Can I have something? All good? Thank you. So I think of the practice, the experience of refuge as being quite profound, kind of coming out of the depth of Dharma practice.

[12:22]

It certainly was something that I only discovered that had any meaning for myself after I'd practiced for a while. And something that I came into contact with became important, became more important than anything else, became something to orient my life around, live my life by, kind of a guiding star, involved in intention, and something quite heartfelt, a certain kind of maybe devotion or love. that all kind of are held in this concept of refuge. And I want to begin by emphasizing or discussing the verbs that are the activity, the actions associated with refuge. And maybe some of this you've heard before. In the Japanese and Chinese Buddhist tradition,

[13:29]

In Japanese, refuge is pronounced ki-ye. And the character for ki means to return, to return home. And that's quite something to, sometimes we say taking refuge, but the literal meaning is to return home. And then the e part, the e part, The character is a character to depend on or to be in accord with. So it's to be in accord with returning home. And so what is that home that is our refuge? What is that returning, which is the refuge? In the Pali tradition, the Theravadan tradition that I teach down here in Peninsula, the action associated with refuge is walking, going, and walking to refuge going through so usually say going to refuge.

[14:36]

But literally, the word literally means to walk, which has the baby the connotations that is something you bring all of yourself to. When you walk, you take everything along with your who you are, and nothing excluded. So you walk to refuge. So in both of these Buddhist traditions, there's an action associated with refuge. And I'd like to propose that that action has two qualities to it. It has something that we initiate and do, and then something that happens in response to that. one of the, you know, lines of the chance that we do at Zen Center that keeps coming back to me, you know, on a somewhat regular basis is the line, it responds to the inquiring impulse.

[15:42]

And, and the inquiring impulse maybe is what we offer, but then something responds to that. We go for refuge and something responds, something appears. So I likened it to being a host to someone who comes and stays at your home. Maybe it's someone quite wonderful. Maybe it's Christina or Tova, both of them come to your home and you're the host. And if they came to your home for a while, you would probably engage in certain actions of hosting them. You would offer them tea, you would offer them a meal, you know, you would make space for them. And if there's a more comfortable chair to sit in, you probably wouldn't sit in it yourself, you would offer it to them.

[16:48]

And so there's an action you do of being a host. But you're also in a certain way, getting yourself out of the way your own preferences aren't that important anymore you're kind of uh in a in a few months for a little while you're maybe even a deference to them or respect to them where you kind of you kind of let go of yourself maybe happily delightfully because of course you want to host them and take care of them and in a nice way Generosity has some of the same qualities. To be generous, the act of generosity, you have to do something. You don't just sit on your couch and pick your nose and that's your generosity to the world. Usually generosity involves enacting, doing something. In the Japanese tradition, when I was in Japan practicing there, that...

[17:52]

I learned this first at Zen Center and then more deeply when I went to Japan. To give something, to give it with both hands. There's something about bringing all of yourself into the act of giving. It's not casual. It's intentional. It's fully there. You really mean it. And so there's something you do when you give. But at the same time, there's something you're giving up. You're letting go of. you're freeing yourself from. You're not taking, not no longer assuming this is mine and belongs to me, myself, and I. There's a letting go that happens. And in that Pali tradition, the Theravadan tradition, the word for generosity and the word for letting go is the same word. The word is chaga. And so here we have again this dual action of doing something and something else happens is letting go.

[18:53]

And, and in being a host or being generous, it might not be the first thing that you're thinking about letting go. If it's such a natural or almost natural generosity, you're hosting the, the putting oneself, putting oneself aside, like one's not in some kind of healthy way. It's not about me anymore. It's about this thing that I'm offering and doing. And the last example that I like is the word respect. That respect also is an action that we engage in, we choose to do. But simultaneously in choosing to be respectful, there is a kind of letting go of self that happens. A kind of, I'm not, you know, it's not about me anymore. It's about sort of maybe deference to the person that you're respecting. And so refuges like this, And in fact, in a certain way, maybe what we're taking refuge in is the part of these actions that we do that involve a letting go of our attachments to things, letting go of our preoccupation with ourselves, letting go of conceit, a certain kind of healthy kind of freeing ourselves from something.

[20:13]

that just feels so good and wonderful to not have it around anymore, not burdening it or clouding the situation. And so to go for refuge in this way of respect and devotion and willingness and offering ourselves, taking all of ourselves to it. And then in response or a part of this, what we're taking refuge is that freedom that comes from that. And maybe the Japanese and Chinese idea of a key returning home. You know, if you're far from home and lost. Recently, I was just today I was reminded of the time I was lost in the woods and the snow. It was getting dark. And, and then I made it home. And, and it felt so good to be home out of the danger of the winter and the dark and the snow and being lost.

[21:14]

And so I had to do something to get home. But once I was there, there was a kind of, you know, in the best kind of, I don't know best, but in one way of being at home, the expression, there's a lot that we let go of when we're home. We let go of perhaps our social self, the way we're trying to please people or get people to like us or to prove ourselves or apologize for ourselves or... you know, be someone or something. And, you know, at home, you can just kind of, some people say just be ourselves, but it's a be ourselves, whereas a whole bunch of selfing that we usually do has been let go of. So in that coming home, being home, that letting go, that settling something, putting something down, there's refuge. And it's a refuge, which is really great, to go for, to return to, when the alternative is worse.

[22:19]

So in the teachings of the Buddha, this ancient tradition, this Theravadan tradition, it's interesting that the Buddha never instructs anyone to go for refuge, engage in the triple refuge. He approves of it. but he doesn't instruct anyone to do so. But he does instruct people to go for refuge, take on as refuge some other things besides the Buddha and the Dharma. And there's a number of very interesting things that he champions as what you take refuge in, but it's not in himself. So one very famous passage is a time where near the time when he was dying, he knew he was dying and he was giving his last teachings. And you usually sit up when a teacher knows they're dying and they're giving their last teachings.

[23:26]

And he said, be a refuge unto yourself with no other refuge. Take the Dharma as your refuge. with no other refuge. And because this is kind of saying these two sentences together, the way to kind of make sense out of them, since he says take no other refuge, is self and dharma have become the same. We become the dharma. What is that? I thought you studied it in a book. But you become the dharma. Or how do you become the dharma? What is the dharma we take refuge in? That's the self. And then he goes on to explain that it's the four foundations of mindfulness. The four ways of developing in a kind of a lucid kind of awareness.

[24:30]

That it's in awareness, the practice of developing awareness, that we... we find this refuge. And in the practice of awareness, that there's something about what we offer to become aware, and what then responds to that, what arises in that. And one of the things that kind of occurs together is that the more we offer our awareness to something, the less energy or effort or engagement that goes into conceit, goes into greed, goes into ill will and hatred. Sometimes also doesn't go into fear. Something shifts. And then to the degree to those remain, when they're held with a kind of clear awareness, it changes the whole game of what it means to have greed, what it means to have conceit or hatred even.

[25:41]

when we're not caught in it, but it's held and seen in the field of awareness. And that's a better alternative than being caught in greed, hate, and delusion, conceit, and acting around it and causing harm in the world. So if your mind is caught in attachments, clinging, states of minds which are stressful, diminish you, that limit you, that lead to your own harm and the harm of others, then I would propose that the better option is refuge. And if you understand something about your capacity to not live in conceit, live in hatred or delusion or or in greed, not live in being entangled and caught in your experience, but know something about awareness practice, waking up practice, being fully present practice with it, then there we begin finding the refuge.

[26:59]

So when the Buddha said, make yourself the refuge, and the Dharma the refuge, and no other refuge, he was pointing to this awareness practice. It's interesting that the Buddha talked about how he had a refuge. And what he said was that he made of himself a refuge. Rather than finding a refuge in himself, he wants to emphasize the action that he somehow made that refuge. And here we get this wonderful duality or this pairing up that goes on of what we do and what happens in response to that. And if certain actions that we do are freeing, certain ways of acting in the world are freeing, and that freedom that we feel inside, that's the refuge.

[28:07]

That's the place to come home to. And when the Buddha was going to announce that he was about to die, it was time for him to die, he said, I've made of myself a refuge and now I will leave you. What an amazing thing to say when you're dying. It would be nice for each of us maybe to be able to say something comparable. in the face of our own death. No, there's a refuge even there. And to have somehow practiced and lived and engaged in such a way that we knew how to tap into it. We knew how to find it. We knew how to awaken at that refuge. And then, you know, I'm leaving you. Now I'm dying. With confidence, with peace, and something like that. So one of the things that Buddha... this Buddha in the Pali tradition talked about, another thing he talked about taking refuge in is refuge in action.

[29:15]

The Pali word is karma, but here karma just simply means action. That what we do is really important. And I think in the Zen tradition, I think there's a lot of appreciation for action. The Japanese word for practice, shugyo, has the word action in the gyo part. And I learned this at Zen Center, that when you sweep the zendo during soji, you really sweep. You're there to sweep. And you kind of give yourself to that activity. And as fully as it makes sense without any stress and hurry, but just the action of sweeping becomes the practice, becomes the place of refuge, becomes a place of freedom.

[30:22]

We give ourselves over to the sweeping and something happens that is different. than maybe what it was earlier when you were caught up in your plans for the day, your fears and anxiety of what's going to happen if we give ourselves to something. And one of the great trainings I had at Zen Center was chopping carrots when I was in the kitchen at Tassajara. So it took a while to learn that training because I didn't want to be in the kitchen. But I had learned this practice. You just give yourself over to the activity. And so I gave myself over or did try to give myself over to the carrots. And eventually the carrots won. Eventually it became just me and the carrots. And the carrots won. I was there with the carrots chopping them. And it became freeing. It became a reference point for me about how to do all kinds of things by giving myself to something.

[31:28]

But what is that giving over? What is that action that's freeing? And I'd like to suggest this dual aspect of it, of what we give, what we offer, and what, in a way that we, something inside lets go. Something inside opens up. Something that we change who we are slightly. We come home. because of the way that which we give, the way that we act. So if we act like I did in the beginning of my kitchen time, the only thing I was contributing to the world was annoyance and disappointment and ideas like I don't want to be here. But you know that I don't think that helped the world much. But as I practiced and practiced and practiced with those carrots and those onions, I learned the joy of just giving myself over to something.

[32:35]

And it wasn't that I learned to love chopping. How do I say this? It became a whole new world. You know, what I didn't like before, I don't know if that, I don't know exactly what happened, but It just became such a pleasure, such a wonderful thing to just doing my carrots and onions, just doing that. So this action, we find it in action. And this I think is one of the strengths of Zen practice is practice in action, in activity. And maybe we learned in Zazen, something about doing this, Zazen is an activity of a certain type. And we learn how to purify that activity or refine that refuge in the activity of Zazen. And then we discover certain letting go of things that are kind of harmful to be doing with our minds and hearts.

[33:43]

We discover there's better ways of living, better places to take refuge in, better places for our confidence to be. And we let go of the confidence is implicit that we had maybe confidence in hatred, confidence in conceit, confidence in desires, and confidence in fear. And it gets replaced by a confidence in this kind of new way of being in the world of acting that where there's freedom, where there's a deeper coming home, The Buddha also talks about refuge in kind of explained this way, his way, kind of taking what the refuge is, the ultimate refuge, is the ending of greed, the ending of hatred, the ending of delusion.

[34:46]

And that's the refuge. So how do we live in the world? How do we act? so that we're ending these powerful forces that cause so much harm. So we live the better alternative. How do we find that home, coming home to ourselves, coming home to the Dharma, coming home to freedom that we recognize as the refuge? And then once it becomes the refuge, Once we know it, then there's something like the vow or the aspiration or the orientation that can become sometimes the central organizing principle of a Dharma life. That the Dharma life is about organizing everything in relationship to this refuge that we discover. And then...

[35:52]

the refuge that we make, the refuge that we find, that we come home to, some point translates into, we become a refuge for others. Isn't it wonderful to be with people who don't have a lot of greed, or hatred, or ill will, delusion? Isn't it refreshing to around people who don't have a lot of conceit? It's refreshing to around people who can act in the world and take care of things and do things, but there's a kind of freedom in how they do it, or kind of a lack of clinging and attachments and resistance and annoyance and disappointment and resentment that they're doing it. There's just this freedom and ease. And we can all become that. And it is a kind of refuge for others because I think it's easier for people to come home to themselves when they're around someone who's at home with themselves.

[37:06]

And we become a refuge for others, a safety for others. I'll end with reading a passage from these early Pali suttas in the middle length discourses. This is after the Buddha died. And a Brahman goes and finds Ananda, one of the Buddha's main disciples. And the Brahmin realizes the Buddha has died, and he's asking about this, and he says to Ananda, is there any single monastic who the Blessed One has appointed to lead the Sangha?

[38:15]

So now that the Buddha is dead, is there another monastic? another monastic who's going to take over as the leader of the community. And Ananda says no. And then he asks, the Brahman asks, well, has the community of monastics, the Sangha, have they appointed someone to be the leader in charge after the Buddha died? And The Buddha says no. And then this Brahmin is a little bit perplexed by this. So then he asks, well, but if you have no refuge, what is the cause of your concord? If you have no refuge, how can a big community like you be, you know, in harmony? And Ananda says, we are not without a refuge.

[39:24]

We have a refuge. We have the Dhamma, the Dharma as our refuge. So I think it's a quite powerful statement that at least soon after the time of the Buddha, you know, they probably felt that he's no longer around. And they didn't see that he was a refuge anymore, maybe. And so they saw that Dharma was the real refuge at this point. Down through the centuries, many people, including us, I think, have found that there's still a way to go for refuge to the Buddha. But maybe that wasn't so obvious in the first years after he died. But the Dharma, in any case, that's what the Buddha pointed to. And maybe dharma is an action or dharma is a way of acting and being and doing, whether in zazen or sweeping the zendo floor or chopping vegetables or talking with friends or whatever we're doing.

[40:40]

So... believe we have another 15 minutes and i think that i'm happy to um answer you know have take questions if that's appropriate and um and the uh i think that the way you do it is you um chant first um yeah yeah so um if you want to chat and then i'm happy to May our intention equally extend to every being and place. With the true merit of Buddha's way, beings are numberless. I vow to save them.

[41:45]

Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Dharma gifts are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to become it. Thank you very much. And you may raise your Zoom hand if you'd like to ask a question. And while we're waiting, I just want to thank you, Gil, for your talk. And it's very timely. We're actually having our pari nirvana ceremony on Tuesday. We'll be commemorating the death of the Buddha on Tuesday morning. And Derek. as their hand up.

[42:46]

See, I can't hear him. OK, yeah, thought I had unmuted myself, but I guess not. Thank you. That was really wonderful. I really enjoyed that perspective on Refuge. It really sort of flipped everything I was thinking about. So very cool. I wanted to know a little bit more you mentioned about coming home in terms of taking refuge and that we start to organize our lives around this experience. I was curious if you had an example from your life around how you organized your life around that experience. I was ordained as a Zen monk, Zen priest. Maybe that's not a very useful example to give you, but that's, you know, that's what I did. So I've lived my life, you know, dedicated to Dharma practice. That's what my life is about.

[43:57]

So that's one thing I did was dedicate my life to it. And I like to meditate. That seems like a wonderful way to enact the refuge and live by it, and be supported by it, and be guided by it. And one thing I learned, at some point I started learning it, and some of it I learned at Zen Center, in the context of practicing there, is it became also almost synonymous with an orientation to love. Because in this place of in this place of refuge, that it just seems so easy to have a kind of care and caring for people and love for people. And so it felt like that there was choosing to, I don't know if I chose to love, but I chose to make it a practice to not let myself not love.

[45:07]

when I started going down those avenues. Like, oh, I don't know if that's the best alternative. So that's another thing I did. I don't know, is that enough examples or do you have something that wants to be more specific? No, that's great. Thank you. Great, thank you. And Joe. Joe is next on the queue. You need to unmute yourself. Okay. Thank you so much for your talk. I wanted to ask you as someone who's like crossed back and forth between Zen and Theravada because I've had an experience with that myself because I studied Zen for many years at Zen Center. Then 10 years ago, I moved to Bangkok. I've been studying Theravada ever since and also helping to lead Zen groups.

[46:13]

And I found that the combination of the two has been just extraordinary. And I was wondering what you feel you've gotten from combining both traditions rather than sticking to one. And if you think that's important for all Buddhists to do that, not just stick to one tradition, but to explore others as well. I think that maybe one of the most important things I learned from doing this Theravada Vipassana practice after being at Zen Center, I learned better what Shikantaza is. I was able to practice Shikantaza more thoroughly or more fully from learning Vipassana. So I think it made me a better Zen student for me. And the importance of doing something like this, I was told there's a saying in England, that says if you don't leave England, you won't know England. And so sometimes it's useful after being immersed in a Buddhist tradition to spend a little bit of time outside of it.

[47:21]

And then you have to get new eyes to see what you were doing. And so it doesn't have to be Vipassana. It could be anything. But other Buddhist traditions, you know, it doesn't have to be a long time, but to, you know, step out and look back. Thank you. We do still have a few more minutes in case there's anything else. I don't see any hands raised. Gil, I'm inserting myself. I can't raise my hand because I'm a co-host. I just wanted to let you know that somehow Paul Howler turned into Tova in your mind.

[48:22]

It's Christina and Paul who are leading the practice period. And I thought you would just appreciate knowing that before the evening ended. Somehow I wasn't sure. So I went to see who gave the talks for the practice period. And I saw that Tova had given one. Last week, I guess, right? So I thought, I assumed it was Tova. And it's Paul. Well, that's, what does Paul think of that? I'm still honored to come into the practice spirit that Christina and Paul are leading. Very honored and very, very appreciative that I was invited. Thank you. So Paul, raise his hand, yes.

[49:29]

One of the things Christina and I have been offering Gil in the process of being the practice period is trying to encourage people to have a daily practice, aspects of their daily practice that stimulate taking refuge. And I wondered if you have any thoughts, either personal or just from the teachings you do about this process of stimulating on a daily basis or on a regular basis. the process of taking refuge. Yeah, I don't know if it's, the thing that comes to mind first is don't be in a hurry. Do things well and fully, but never hurry. It doesn't mean you can't do them fast, but never hurry. Hurry gets in the way of refuge. Thanks for that.

[50:40]

Because one of the exercises we gave for this week was slow down. Quite similar. Great. Thank you. Thank you. And Christina, hi. You're still muted. Hi Gil, thank you very much for talking to us, with us, being with us. I just want to say that so many of the Zen students from Zen Centre that I know work with you in many different ways and profit from that mix of Vipassana, Theravada tradition and the Zen tradition. And it's always inspiring to watch them grow.

[51:43]

So you're having this place outside is a big enrichment to Zen Center. And so I just want to thank you for that. Great. Well, thank you. Nice to hear that. Very nice. And if I was told you, I end exactly at 8.30. So maybe I see one more hand. Can we manage to do that? Sorry, that's too abrupt, Christina. That's fine. Please. Julie. Hi, Gil. You spoke of conceit, and I was curious if you think that the kind of conceit that you were talking about, do you think that children have that kind of conceit? And at what point do we start to support children in taking refuge and understanding, I guess, conceit.

[52:46]

Curious as a mom. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if I'm qualified to answer that question very well when it starts with kids and all that. But I do know that it depends a little bit how they're raised and the influences on them. When my son was quite young, But somehow out of some instinct, I think I wanted to, when he did something, my instinct was to say, like, a good boy. And very quickly, maybe because my wife told me this, I realized that now I was reinforcing, I was enforcing, conditioning a certain kind of conceit. He was supposed to be a good boy. And now he had something to live up to. So I stopped saying that, and instead I said something, if he was doing something wonderful and nice, I would just with enthusiasm say something like, wow, you're having so much fun.

[53:50]

And so maybe try not to, too early in the age to help conceit. And I saw that in even as early as kindergarten and school, the teachers were maybe innocently they didn't realize what they were doing because conceit is such a integral part to much of American culture that we don't even see it but they were asking kids in kindergarten like what is your favorite thing and they had to come up with a list of their favorite color and their favorite this and their favorite that it was all about what was favorite for them and that kind of subtly kind of like oh it's my thing it's what's important for me and And if that's compounded 10,000 times, this emphasis, it starts really early. But probably we can't save people from it. It's going to happen. But what we can do is hopefully give them enough foundation so they can find a way through it, maybe over it, when they become an adult.

[54:56]

And, you know, maybe they learn a practice or the Dharma or some other alternative. And one of those other alternatives is the parents modeling a different way. Okay. Thank you very much. And I appreciate this opportunity quite a bit. Thank you all for your practice and being here. And I wish you well for your practice period. Thank you very much, Gil. We also have a practice of allowing folks to unmute and say thank you and say good night. Thank you very much. Thank you. Good night. Thank you. Good night. [...] Thank you. Thank you, Gil.

[55:57]

Thank you, Gil. Good night. Thank you. Bye. Muchas gracias. Buenas noches. Buenas noches. Thank you, Gil. Much love to you all. Thanks, Gil. Food for thought. So great to hear you. Hi, Vicky. Nice to see you.

[56:23]

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