This podcast is offered by San Francisco's Zen Center on the web at sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good evening, everyone. It's nice to see everyone here. It feels like a very warm and bright room on a cold and dark night. And I feel like I'm surrounded by many friendly faces, as well as some of the hungry ghosts that are gathering for tomorrow night. And if you want some more entertainment, please do come back tomorrow night. And if you're here for the first time or you're relatively new, welcome to Beginner's Mind Temple, and I hope I'll say something useful. I'd like to bow to Paul for his leadership of this practice period, and bow to our Shuso Keith and to Sarah, a brave transcriber who's making the practice period accessible to Keith. And she has my permission to slow me down at any time during this talk.

[01:03]

Also, thank you to Paul for inviting me to do this talk. At the beginning of the practice period, there was, you know, well, maybe, maybe. And then last Thursday, he said, why don't you give the talk next Wednesday? And so, of course, my initial reaction was like, I don't have time. I was busy preparing for Young Urban Zen Weekend Retreat and all the other stuff that I do as director here. And I knew I'd be away from Friday to Sunday, and then I had plans all day Monday. And Young opens in on Tuesday, when am I going to write this? And then on Friday morning, we had some extra busyness, as many of you know. We had a phone call in the front office, and Thich Nhat Hanh was arriving with his entourage in 30 minutes. And unfortunately, we couldn't... It wasn't quite discerned whether the entourage was 15 or 50. And we planned to have maybe offer tea to 15 people. And people were running around sweeping and doing all this kind of thing.

[02:09]

And there were ladders up in the dining room because we were repainting. And I said, just leave everything there. It's fine. He's just coming to visit the temple. The important thing is to smile. LAUGHTER I've heard the story that, you know, many years ago Thich Nhat Hanh said he would not come back to Zen Center unless we learned how to smile. So, you know, I was less concerned about whether the place was spotless and free from dust as to whether we were welcoming. And as it was, two big coaches pulled up and 50 people got out. Most of them monks, which is really lovely. And they all came in here and the first thing Thay said when he arrived on the step was to pay respect to the Buddha. So he came in and everyone came in and did prostrations. It was really beautiful. And then we went to the courtyard and he hit the peace bell. And they did some chanting in their style. The Heart Sutra with some harmonies that we don't use, which was really nice. And then we chanted the Enmei Juku in return, in exchange. And everyone went down to the Zendo as well to have a look.

[03:13]

And then for me, the most amazing moment was someone said to me, can you open up the library, please? So I opened up the library and turned on the lights and followed him into the library. And it was just me and him for a moment. And he was looking at every shelf. It's very interesting. He walked around the whole room looking at all the books. And one of his assistants whispered to me, he's crazy about books. And, of course, people were, like, pulling out the ones that he's written. Like, no, there's only... Um... And it was, you know, it was a very special moment. I was, you know, trying to really take it in at the same time I was taking photographs because that's what I'm often asked to do at Zen Center. So I was trying to be present and also thinking of that at the same time. And ever since then, people have said, what was he like? You know, what was it like to hang out with Thich Nhat Hanh? Because I've certainly never met him before. I've not been to one of his lectures. And, you know, he seems so ordinary. This is the amazing thing.

[04:13]

It's very ordinary, but at the same time, very present. And there's this kind of special quality that just is there. It doesn't radiate out in this showy way. It's just there. And almost a kind of innocence as well. When he was looking at the books, he just seemed just incredibly interested in them. And then right after that, literally as soon as we'd waved the buses off, I grabbed some lunch and went off to the South Bay for this retreat. And there had been a lot of planning involved in this retreat. Luckily, we had a lot of help, Stacy and Jeff and Mackenzie and Shannon, with the food prep. We took 19 people down to Chicochi Zen Center for the weekend. And so I was kind of very anxious about it going in because there were so many unknowns. But as soon as we got there, it was like, ah, we have a whole weekend just together. And it was very sweet. We spent all of Saturday in silence. We did some sitting together. Not too much, just kind of regularly through the day. Did some yoga. Did some hiking. Went up to watch the sunset from the ridge above skyline.

[05:17]

And ate together, cleaned up together, worked in the kitchen together. And so once I got there, I had plenty of time to focus on my talk, as well as to be nourished by being in nature, being surrounded by trees, beautiful animals. There were two temple cats who were incredibly sweet. And watching the hawks fly by and deer roaming around the grounds. And we're in the middle of a practice period. It's really kind of right in the middle now. We can kind of see Sashin at the other end, but it's a little way off still. And the theme of the practice period is entering Buddha's way. And I think this is a very germane topic for young urban Zen. People coming to practice often for the first time, or they're pretty new to practice. And it's like, how do you How do you come into Buddha's way? What is it? How do we find it? How do we approach it? And I found a great modern Zen teaching a few weeks ago that I presented to the group, which I wanted to share with you.

[06:19]

You might have heard it recently. It seemed to be quite popular. That's what the phone is taking away, the ability to sit there like this. That's being a person, right? Because underneath everything in your life, there's that thing, that forever empty, you know? that knowledge that it's all for nothing and you're alone. It's down there. And sometimes when things clear away, you're in your car and you start going, oh, here it comes, that I'm alone, and it starts to visit on you this sadness. Life is tremendously sad, and so you're driving and go, ah, and grabs the phone. And that's why we text and drive. I look around, pretty much 100% of people who are driving are texting. Louis C.K., the comedian Louis C.K., was the person who said that. That's why we text and drive. I look around, pretty much 100% of people who are driving are texting. So he's describing the human condition and what we do to avoid confronting the human condition.

[07:24]

This is kind of the modern version of how we see suffering in ourselves, in our lives, and how we avoid it with distraction. And about the same time, I read a poem in The New Yorker, And I shared this at the same meeting. This is a poem by Jane Hirshfield called My Proteins. They have discovered, they say, the protein of itch, natriuretic polypeptide B, and that it travels its own distinct pathway inside my spine, as do pain, pleasure, and heat. A body, it seems, is a highway. A cloverleaf crossing, well built, well traversed. Some of me going north, some going south. Ninety percent of my cells, they have discovered, are not my own person. They are other beings inside me. As ninety-six percent of my life is not my life.

[08:28]

Yet I, they say, am they. My bacteria and yeasts, my father and mother. Grandparents, lovers. My drivers talking on cell phones, my subways and bridges, my thieves, my police, who chase myself night and day. My proteins, apparently also me, fold the shirts. I find in this crowded metropolis a quiet corner, where I build of not-me Lego blocks a bench, pigeons, a sandwich of rye bread, mustard, and cheese. It is me and is not. the hunger that makes the sandwich good. It is not me, then, is the sandwich, a mystery neither of us can fold, unfold, or consume. So traditionally we read poems twice here, just so you get anything you miss the first time around.

[09:29]

They have discovered, they say, the protein of itch, natriuretic, polypeptide B, and that it travels its own distinct pathway inside my spine, as do pain, pleasure, and heat. A body, it seems, is a highway, a cloverleaf crossing, well-built, well-traversed, some of me going north, some going south. Ninety percent of my cells they have discovered are not my own person. They are other beings inside me. as 96% of my life is not my life. Yet I, they say, am they. My bacteria and yeasts, my father and mother, grandparents, lovers, my drivers talking on cell phones, my subways and bridges, my thieves, my police, who chase myself night and day. My proteins, apparently also me, fold the shirts.

[10:33]

I find in this crowded metropolis a quiet corner where I build of not-me Lego bricks, a bench, pigeons, a sandwich of rye bread, mustard, and cheese. It is me and is not the hunger that makes the sandwich good. It is not me, then, is the sandwich, a mystery neither of us can fold, unfold, or consume. So I think we tend to think of Jane Hirshfield as one of us because she spent time at Tassajara. And certainly I think one of the first poems I heard of hers, I heard at Tassajara and particularly resonated with me. It's a very short poem, so I'll only read it once. Even now, decades after, I wash my face with cold water. Not for discipline, nor memory, nor the icy awakening slap, but to practice choosing.

[11:35]

to make the unwanted wanted. So I think here we're looking at kind of the flip side of that feeling of loneliness and the desire for distraction. It's like the examination and the inkling that there is interconnectedness and choosing to do things that might seem difficult or unwanted. And I was thinking of the icy awakening slap A few weeks ago, when I read the email about Steve's diagnosis, it really felt like a cold slap. And yes, we're all going to die, and this is a reminder that we're all going to die. And at the same time, we're all supported by interconnectedness. And I talked to Steve on the phone yesterday, and he ended the conversation saying, I love you. And he said, I've been saying that to a lot of people. I love you. I'm free to say that.

[12:36]

And what is more important than that? In the theme of entering the Buddha's way, one koan story has been in my mind, I think, recently. And it's a well-known koan story from the Gateless Gate, the Mumonkan. between Joshu and Nansen. Joshu, who turned out to be a great teacher, I think was young, when this story happened, and he's talking with his teacher, Nansen. And the story goes, Joshu asked Nansen, what is the way? Nansen answered, everyday mind is the way. Joshu asked, can it be studied? Nansen said, if you try to study it, you will be far away from it. Joshu asked, if I do not study it, how can I know it is the way?

[13:39]

Nanset replied, the way does not belong to the world of knowing, nor does it belong to the world of not knowing. Knowing is delusion and not knowing is confusion. If you can achieve the unquestioned way, it is like vast emptiness and boundless space. So how can it be this or that? At these words, Joshu became enlightened. So what is the way is the most basic question that we ask. When we have this inkling about suffering, when we have ideas about interconnectedness, what is the way? Let's assume that Joshu was asking it in an innocent way rather than trying to catch out his teacher because he was pretty smart. An everyday mind is the way. What a simple answer that is. Everyday mind, or ordinary mind. It's often translated, I prefer, everyday mind. So how simple?

[14:41]

And how difficult? And of course, Joshu's first impulse is, well, how can I get there? I can see it. How can I get there? Can it be studied, he asks. And this is where the surprising thing comes in, because the teacher says, well, if you study it, you're far away from it. We need motivation to practice. We need to get that desire to work out what it is. Then how do we deal with, like, if we're studying it, we're far away from it? And there's a reading from Suzuki Roshi that Samuel did in Young Urban Zen last week, which speaks to this a little bit. about studying and not studying. Suzuki Roshi says, we need some teaching, but just by studying the teaching alone, it is impossible to know what I in myself am.

[15:47]

Through the teaching, we may understand our human nature, but the teaching is not we ourselves. It is some explanation of ourselves. So if you're attached to the teaching or to the teacher, that is a big mistake. So of course we have the desire to study. We have a desire to move towards this thing. But really we're just trying to find out more about ourselves. So then Joshua doesn't just let this drop. He says, if I don't study it, how can I know it is the way? So how do we know we're not going off into false tracks? And again, Nansen is tripping him up. The way does not belong to the world of knowing, nor does it belong... It's the world of not knowing. Knowing is delusion, and not knowing is confusion. And this is really, this was certainly hard for me to hear. You know, when I was growing up, knowledge was a very powerful thing.

[16:52]

You know, we're expected to know a lot, to be smart and have the answers to things. But, you know, I recognize that that knowledge, that You know, that school learning, all that stuff, is a way to, it enforces separation to a certain extent. Like, you know this. Somebody else may not know that. You know, I was certainly led to feel superiority if I knew more than other people. It's like, you're smarter than they are. You know things. They don't know things. So there's a separation that's implicit in that, that I didn't realize for a long time. And of course, when it comes to Zen Center, what do I do? I want to know the forms. I want to know how to do things right. I want to get these things right. I want to be a good student, get all the right answers. But again, that's learning something, but it's not meeting the way. And as I practiced, I realized how hard it is for me to say, I don't know.

[17:54]

It's very easy for me to say, oh, I know that. It's not so easy to say, I don't know. It's very important to cultivate that. Not the not knowing of the confusion, but just not knowing is like, I'm not going to separate this into this is this and that is that. But without knowing or not knowing, what is that? How do we move between in this realm of not knowing or knowing? Nansen says, if you achieve the unquestioned way, it's like vast emptiness and boundless space. Nansen says, if you can achieve the unquestioned way, it is like vast emptiness and boundless space. So how do we get there without knowing or not knowing? And this is where we enter the Buddha's way. This is how we enter the Buddha's way. Not knowing, not not knowing.

[18:57]

at being, doing, and practicing. So I'm a big fan of the Genjo Koan, Dogen's fascicle which translates as actualizing the fundamental point. And there's a section I'd like to read. It's about two-thirds of the way through. A fish swims in the ocean. and no matter how far it swims, there is no end to the water. A bird flies in the sky, and no matter how far it flies, there is no end to the air. However, the fish and the bird have never left their elements. When their activity is large, their field is large. When their need is small, their field is small. Thus, each of them totally covers its full range, and each of them totally experiences its realm. If the bird leaves the air, it will die at once.

[19:58]

If the fish leaves the water, it will die at once. Know that water is life and air is life. The bird is life and the fish is life. Life must be the bird and life must be the fish. It is possible to illustrate this with more analogies. Practice enlightenment and people are like this. Now, if a bird or a fish tries to reach the end of its element before moving in it, This bird or this fish will not find its way or its place. So I think the first part of this is fairly straightforward. Birds fly in the sky and the fish is swimming in the water. Natural activity of the bird and the fish. They do what they need to do. They cover the range they need to cover. And he goes on. Water is life and air is life. Bird is life and the fish is life. That's pretty straightforward. I get more interested in life must be the bird and life must be the fish. And this is a really great thing I spent a lot of time thinking about.

[21:02]

Nothing is excluded. Everything has to be included. And there's a phrase that Dogon uses, which is shou ho jisou. Sorry, I didn't give you that one, Sarah. Shou ho jisou. translates that all things are ultimate reality. So the ultimate reality must include the bird, must include the fish, must include all of us, and all the good stuff, and all the bad stuff, and the interconnectedness, and the feeling of separation, all included. And I think quite often I got stuck on that line. And I kind of ignored the next line. And then I started thinking, what does it mean? Practice enlightenment and people are like this. But he does give us a clue. He says it's possible to illustrate this with more analogies.

[22:04]

So I'm thinking, OK, so there's an analogy here. So people are like the bird or the fish. OK, pretty simple. Practice. It's like swimming or the flying. It's just the natural activity. It's what we do. We practice. Enlightenment, that's like the ocean or the sky. That's the element that we move in. But what's interesting is when he says, if a bird or a fish tries to reach the end of its element before moving in it, this bird or this fish will not find its way or its place. So what we're always trying to do when we think about entering the Buddha's way, how do we do this? What is this? How do we study it? We're trying to describe the end of it. What is enlightenment? What is this Buddha way? There's this kind of limit that we're looking for. We're trying to reach the end of something, but we're not moving in it. So what we have to do is practice right where we are.

[23:11]

If we think of the sky, we think of something that's way up there. But we're in the sky already. We're part of the sky right now, right here. This is not separate from the sky. So we're not thinking of enlightenment as something way out there. Dogen's main point in what he wrote is practice enlightenment is right here. You're practicing in the ocean of enlightenment. And one of our dedications in the morning is the innumerable wise beings in the ocean of enlightenment. So we're all in the ocean of enlightenment. It's not somewhere else. We're all right there. And all you have to do is practice to be swimming in that ocean. So that's entering the Buddha's way. And he goes on, when you find your way at this moment, practice the Kuras, actualizing the fundamental point. You find your place right here and not thinking about where the end of enlightenment is, where the boundary is.

[24:20]

Yes. Well, actually, there's two lines. When you find your place where you are, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point. When you find your way at this moment, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point. So this is not a matter of knowing or not knowing. It's just a matter of being and doing. And practicing. And we can do this with our everyday mind. And this is, again, I think what Thich Nhat Hanh was demonstrating so easily from his decades of practice. Just that everyday mind of, here he is, he's in the Buddha Hall. In the Buddha Hall, he bows to the Buddha. And the bow is complete. He rings the bell, and the bell ringing was complete. The chanting is complete. When he's looking at the books, the looking at the books is complete. It's just the everyday mind.

[25:21]

What he's with is what he's doing. So I sit here, and I'm the director at Zen Center, and I have all these things to do, all these busy things. Somebody asked me to give a talk, and I thought, I can't do that, I'm too busy. And I've been noticing this stress and tension right through the year of having administrative things to take care of and wanting to have this spacious mind to give lovely teachings and give people the opportunity to explore the Dharma. And it can't always be like a weekend at Jokoji. We can't always sit there among the trees looking at hawks flying by thinking, oh, this is great. I'll have another cup of coffee now, great. You know, this week I've had many difficult conversations and situations I've not been comfortable dealing with. And my koan, my actualizing, my fundamental point as director this year has been how can I find everyday mind in both of these situations, in the stressful everyday things and in these kind of blissful retreat moments or moments of teaching, moments of spaciousness.

[26:41]

So can we find our place where we are? Can I find my place where I am when I'm having difficult conversations? And it really isn't a matter of knowing or not knowing. It really is a matter of just being there and doing our best at each moment. Just to practice this everyday mind. Not discriminating. Just allowing ourselves to be in the boundless sky. And there's another line from Dogen, from his instructions to the Tenzo, which I think about a lot. Day and night, things come to mind, and the mind attends to them. At one with them all, diligently carry on the way. So I think entering the way with everyday mind encompasses all these things. The fear that Louis C.K. refers to, the fear that we're

[27:45]

alone, separate, and that we're going to die. The idea of examination and interconnectedness, and the busyness and spaciousness. These are the poignant flavors of being human. So I knew that I was not going to be talking for that long. I was tempting to let everyone go to bed early. Maybe I won't take a question or two. If anyone has a question. Jack, all right. What are some of the ways that you brought this intention to everyday mind is the way into harder times in your life dealing with how have you been able to find that space? What's that experience like? It was interesting. We were Yes. How have I been able to find this everyday mind in these stressful situations?

[28:50]

I'm not hearing that correctly. And is it peaceful? Not always. Not always. But we were talking in practice period tea last week about studying body and mind study of the way. And what occurred to me when we were talking is that We're studying with the mind and studying with the body all the time. And what we're studying is the mind and the body. The study of the mind, of the body, with the mind and with the body. And so in any moment, I'm thinking, oh yeah, I'm feeling really stressed right now. Or I can't really concentrate on this because I'm thinking about something else. And so just paying attention to what those sensations are. And they're very common sensations. This is just the circle of living. So I think bringing attention to those things, and even in difficult situations like, oh yeah, this feels pretty hard, I can feel my heart, it's a little tense.

[29:54]

So that's, for me, that's kind of a key to finding the everydayness in it. We'll be happy to get some extra sleep if no one has any questions. Ah, Shannon. Ask away. I notice that I'm lying. It makes me stop. Like one of those cartoon characters where they walk across the cliff as soon as they know they're walking, they just drop. Well, what makes you step out of it?

[31:05]

How do you notice you're flying without stopping flying? I think not removing yourself from flying by noticing you're flying, you do it by not separating you from the flying. Because if you think flying is something that's happening without you, then that's a separate thing. So how do we go forward without being terrified, without drowning?

[32:30]

Trusting in the present moment. No. You can't control a present moment. That's the great thing about it. Why do you want to try and control it? Well, favorable outcomes are... That's dividing things into knowing and not knowing, isn't it? It's like you think there's going to be a favorable outcome. You want a favorable outcome, but you know actually what the favorable outcome is. In the all things are ultimate reality realm, what is a favorable outcome for you? Profitable. Profitable and maybe avoiding pain and suffering. Avoiding pain and suffering, yeah. That's not always possible, is it?

[33:33]

I guess you're paying a lot of attention to it. Keep breathing. Perhaps he wasn't looking for a favorable outcome. It may have been that some... Did something else get cancelled or was he just going from A to B and he suddenly thought, wait a minute, Zen Center's on the way. It's just... Maybe it's just living in the moment. According to one of the monks, that's what happened. That he was living in the moment or just...

[35:19]

And the thing is, would it have been a better visit if we'd known about it two days ahead of time? No, we would have polished everything up, we would have been lined up, we would have been... And as it was, we were just completely thrown into it. It was really amazing. And we had no idea what was going to happen. We managed to find Blanche, we managed to find Rosalie and Susan, and Vicky was out of town, and Paul was on his way. We did what we could, and we ended up doing these beautiful chants in the courtyard. Imagine if we'd had an itinerary, like 10.15, we're going to go into the Buddha Hall. 10.30, we're going to ring the bell. It would have been very dull, I think. So there was something... Yeah, we had beautiful tea laid out for 15 people. And then, God bless the kitchen, they started cooking lunch for 50 people just in case they stayed for lunch.

[36:20]

And all the way through the visit, we were going, are you staying for lunch? We don't know yet. And it was only when they came out of the library that they finally said, I think we're going now. And it was 12.25, which is five minutes before our lunchtime. You can stay for lunch. God bless the kitchen. Thank you so much. Being ready to, you know, throwing yourselves in there in that present moment. Like, okay, we can defrost some soups and some rice. We were there. We were ready. And that was Buddha activity all the way around. Thank you very much. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma.

[37:21]

For more information, please visit sfcc.org and click Giving. May we all fully enjoy the Dharma.

[37:29]

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