This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good evening. Are you piping something into this? This is an eye. Things change. I've heard that. There's a fifth century meditation manual called the Vasudhi Maga. The first lines of the Vasudhi Maga go, the inner tangle and the outer tangle.

[01:00]

This generation is in a tangle. Who can untangle the tangle? The inner tangle and the outer tangle. This generation is in a tangle. Who can untangle the tangle? This was in 4.30. That generation was in a tangle. Can you imagine where we are? Not only is there the inner tangle and the outer tangle, the inner and outer tangles are tangled. So I was thinking about this these days, the past two or three years particularly. What's my inner tangle and my outer tangle? And just for simplicity, I'm going to say one is the inner and one is the outer, though it could be switched. My inner tangle has been my health for the past two or three years.

[02:02]

And my outer triangle has been starting Dragon's Leap, which is the name of my temple in the 19th in Quintero. About three years ago, I decided that it was time for me to leave Zen Center. After a long time, almost 40 years, And the first year was kind of complicated in that I, before I moved, it was kind of complicated because I was here for over a year trying to raise money to find a place. And during that time, the first person I gave Dharma transmission to died.

[03:10]

kind of hard. Anyhow, moving along. The next year, I finally found a place and moved. It happened to be the Year of the Dragon, and it was the leap year. I moved March 1st, so it was auspicious for Dragon's Leap to start on a leap year in Year of the Dragon. And my health, my health had started to deteriorate a little bit when I decided to move, but after I moved it was

[04:19]

It got bad, and then it got worse the next year. You know, when you have an illness, particularly a serious illness, it's like you learn a technology about it. You learn a lot about how it affects your body. And then there are people who have this similar disease. I had Parkinson's, I still do, but it was Parkinson's at the time. was very high on the hit parade and you get very intimate with it in a certain way. A certain part of that intimacy may be kind of denial because you say you really try to work hard at it. You get to learn things like I learned that sacral cranial work really helped. But then the person who I did sacro-cranial work for me, died about a year and a half ago.

[05:22]

In the first year when I was at Dragon's Leap, I kind of concentrated all my energy on Dragon's Leap and my health. The concentration went pretty far, but then it kind of wiped me out, or I became wiped out. I don't know what wiped what out, but anyhow, I became very, I was really struggling. At the end of the first year, we ordained, I ordained six people, and they were great people, but I was struggling even through the ceremony. And then it got worse. Last spring I was really in bad shape. It was the inner tangle.

[06:36]

And then I had an operation in June, which is called deep brain stimulation. They drilled two holes in my head. Apparently the Incas or the Mayans or one of those people knew about this operation because their idea was that it would let the demons out of your head and you'd be okay. So it worked. It worked. But then I had to learn how to do everything over again. I know, that's what we're supposed to do in Zen, I know. I've heard that beginner's mind, but I have a whole new body that I had before. A whole new mind, too. I had to learn how to sit Sazen all over again, and I'm still learning it.

[07:40]

And it was actually quite miraculous that within a month I was racing around and dancing and I knew I had to slow down a little because I'd been slowing down for about 10 years and now I had a lot of energy. So I didn't have that much stamina. I would get tired pretty quickly. I had a lot of energy to do short things. So I knew I had to go slow. And every decision that I could make, I tried to go slow, but of course I was racing. I was running. And I realized that in the second practice period we had this fall, I realized that I needed some more time. It wasn't that my body wasn't ready for it, it's that it redesigned what I wanted it to do.

[08:56]

When I had left Zen Center, I had a lot of ideas about how I wanted the new temple to be, and I redid some of them. And then, And whatever energy I had, I put into the temple in a large extent. But now that I have more energy, I have to decide to do something with my time that's different. I have to think about how I want to act now, who I want to be now, what my body and mind is going to do now. The problem we probably all have. But it really became clear to me that that's what I needed to do. So that's what I'm doing now. Trying to figure out what I'm doing and moving slowly, not moving too fast.

[10:02]

So the inner tangle about my health was one thing I was doing, and the outer tangle of drag and sleep was another thing, and they were related to each other, but sometimes it was almost like different languages. One tangle was in French and one tangle was in Bantu or something. It was at that time I also realized that every night, even though in the spring when I wasn't doing very well at all, I wasn't sleeping very much. Maybe a couple hours a night. And I realized that whenever I went to sleep, I went to a bigger place, maybe. Or a different place, anyhow. Maybe more like the bardo, where I wasn't a particular person. Then I'd wake up and I'd be the particular person I was.

[11:28]

So the inner tangle was one thing and the outer tangle was another. And I feel like I was really at a very low ebb and then I was... felt better and then I started running. It's almost like I was running from the sickness instead of trying to move forward with it and with who I was now. It's going to take a while. Those people who've been studying with me have also been... People were wonderful when I was sick.

[12:38]

And that they're not wonderful now, but wonderful when I was sick. And... I think we have to feel our way together about what we should do in America these days. besides meditating and go to that deep place where we're not particularly anybody or everybody. Then when we wake up into a specific place, what are we going to do in that place, in that space? There's so many people here tonight. I heard that there was a popular lecture next door on what's on poly... What?

[13:44]

That's right. Sounds interesting. Do you have any questions or comments? Yes. Yeah, my body is different. In fact, I haven't even begun to experiment about where my Zazan is. I've been trying to stay still without coming up with too many ideas. But my body is completely different. Well, I may be more aware, but also the hindrances that were in my body are not there so much. So the things I was reacting against or trying to soften, you know, there's a whole different array of things that I am now.

[14:49]

I think it's good. It's certainly, you know, people, I've now got a lot of people call me up who have Parkinson's, just want to know if they should have that operation. To me, there wasn't any choice. The comparison, I mean, I had to have it. Thank you very much. It wasn't a choice because I was really fading fast. In fact, one of my students said, if you should stop doing zazen and have the operation himself. It's hysterical, isn't it? I thought it was hysterical. But there it is, the inner tangle and the outer tangle. I remember before that you were doing a lot of brushwork, and I wonder if that's different now as well.

[16:05]

I'm still doing brushwork, but I'm trying to go slow with it. I want to try to see where it leads me instead of trying to lead it. You know, because I've had to react so much to my illness before then, as soon as I had a chance to move ahead, I kind of wanted to run, but it was too much. But I'm continuing on. I just want to slow down a little bit. When we had the, you know, we could also tune myself. you can tune yourself up or down with the electrical stimulus. And my wife kept wanting to tune me down. It's funny. What do you do? Slurp.

[17:15]

Well, I think the first thing, at least that I need to do, everybody may have a different thing they need to do, is to not wiggle too much. To become a little more comfortable with the entanglement. You know, the Chinese, they have these Chinese things, you put your finger in, the more you push, the more... It holds you, but if you kind of relax and pull it out, it might work better anyhow. I'm sticking with that theory. At least for now. Well, it's a kind of natural reaction to just want to get out of there rather than say, wow, I really learned a lot doing that thing.

[18:21]

Come on with me. Let's march on together. I think that's how I felt. I'm not sure. You'll have to decide that. Actually, it's my family and my friends who suffered more from the Parkinson's than I did, I think, because people would help me, but they wouldn't help my... Now it's the Beatles.

[19:37]

But your family and friends have to... Testing? Okay. Yeah, let's give me some slack. Okay. Well, she mentioned that her father had it in some ways. I'm sure it was very hard on your father too, but it was maybe harder on you and your mother than it was on your father. I'm very glad that you're able to have the surgery.

[20:48]

I want to say something about that in a minute. As I was sitting there, a number of people called me up who referred to I'd had the surgery and what I hear about. And many of them were very reluctant to have the surgery. It's not for everyone. Of course, doctors will tell you it's not for everyone. always Parkinson's, but so many people can benefit. But there's a kind of denial you get into when you're sick sometimes. You need to deny it because it's the people in complete awareness of all your handicaps. So many of the things I was on the landing center when I left.

[21:56]

It was actually a good one to make it a long nation, because I needed to leave. And so it was fact that I was landing center to help me leave. But it must be very difficult for people at the center to see me not being able to do anything for me too much. So I appreciate that. I also appreciate that it was hard for me to leave video. Maybe it's in line with what you just said in a sentence. Maybe you said something about maybe you shouldn't or something about when it's time to do something versus sitting in meditation during a talk. I don't know. I said it kind of quickly. I'm curious. Can you think more about why it's time for your leave?

[23:18]

40 years. So what's wrong with 41? You started mentioning the situation in 430 A&E, and this generation is in a tent. What happened to those guys? What's happening with us? I think there's always a challenge, it always is a challenge to untangle a thing. The tangle of our desires, the tangle of our ancestors, the tangle of our future, the tangle of our technologies, the tangle of times, the tangle of what's going on.

[24:25]

Being in the game is not easy, but you can have them for other than you either. That's what the Buddha said. I was just wondering, you know, everything going on with your health and stuff, and culture puts a lot of emphasis on physical, and quote, unquote, well-being and whatnot. So how did you, what did you do to keep your sense of, inner sense of human dignity or peace of mind besides practice? And what did you tell yourselves? You go. Okay. Okay. That's one side.

[25:31]

Of course, the other side is negative, but there's no side that's getting up. It's just saying, that's the way it is. We must be getting ready to say two more questions, not one more question, or no more questions there. You mentioned something about the kind of conjunction between the inner and outer temple. Yes. Could you say a little bit more about that place? Well, I'll say a little bit more. Julian says, is the unconscious and is the conscious, is the

[26:34]

Rational and irrational. There's the sane and the insane. There's the music and then there's the science. There's the... There's what you're feeling, there's what you're thinking, there's the... There's looking at the things in the hole, there's these creases. There's oneness and twoness and neither one or two are neither oneness. Okay? Did 40 years of practice help me manage your sickness? I think so. But I don't say I managed my sickness. I think it's sick and strange to me as much as I've had to take this. It's more like, well, I had to always choose what I could do and what I couldn't.

[27:43]

I had to keep trying to choose something that I couldn't do and what I couldn't do. Sometimes I might do what I thought I could, but it didn't do bad. Was that different from that? You can imagine my sickness? No. I'm trying what you could do. Sometimes you could do something. Just remind me of what you're saying about, oh, I think I'm going to be able to do all this. And it's like, no, I need to do this well. Somebody asked one month when I sent a teacher. Disease and medicine cure each other. The whole world is medicine. What is the self? Medicine and disease cure each other. The whole world is medicine.

[28:43]

What is the self? Yes? What's your favorite thing about life? Ten shoes. You know, that's nice to forget. My name is Ingrid. It's a good thing. [...] I hope you miss you. What, I answer? How long do you answer?

[29:45]

I think right now I just have to say, watch again. Is that maybe two classrooms? Okay. For more information, please visit sfzc.org and click Giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[30:31]

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