I recently returned from Tassajara, where I had been, I returned last week, and I had been down at Tassajara for three weeks, participating in a ceremony called the Dharma Transmission Ceremony, which was a 21-day ceremony. And for those of you who've never been at Tassajara, how many of you have never been to Tassajara? Tassajara is a monastery in the Las Padres National Forest, and it's very secluded, and it was full autumn when I arrived, with golden trees, red golden trees, and scattered leaves, gigantic leaves from the sycamores, like this big, leaves falling, very beautiful. And during the time I was there, it shifted from autumn into winter, the leaves were blown

[01:06]

off the trees, and it got colder, got down to about 27, frosty. And I was able to join the practice at Tassajara, there in the middle of practice period, and the schedule there was very simple, you wake up and go to Zazen, two periods of Zazen, then service of chanting and bowing, and then meals in the Zendo, oryoki meals, with special eating bowls for the Zendo. And then after breakfast there's study hall, and following study there's Soji, or kind of tidying up the grounds, and then you either go back for more Zazen, or there's a class, or a dana talk, or a sewing class, there's also a sewing class offered. And then that's the morning, and then you have noon service, lunch in the Zendo, and

[02:13]

then a break, and afternoon work. And that's broken up with afternoon tea, just quite nice, a nice little spread in the late afternoon, and then a little more work, and then it's exercise time and bath time, Tassajara has hot springs, and after bath time there's evening service, dinner in the Zendo, and then evening Zazen, or class, and bedtime. And that's the very simple schedule, and although I was participating in the Dharma transmission ceremony, part of the feeling was to just join in with what was happening at Tassajara, and not have so many special things outside of the regular schedule. So I participated as much as I could with everyone, and it's a very harmonious feeling

[03:17]

down there, and a lot of joyful feeling, as well as people making great effort to study themselves. So many people have asked me, what is the Dharma transmission ceremony, what does it mean, and have been curious about it, or wondering about it, or wanting to share in some way with it. And the night before the ceremony began, Rob Anderson, who is leading the practice period down there, and with whom I did the Dharma transmission ceremony, spoke with the community about what it means, and I want to talk with you about that. Basically, it's not possible to talk about the meaning of the ceremony as a kind of

[04:19]

abstract meaning that kind of exists by itself on paper, or in a book, or even me telling you about it. The meaning of the ceremony is expressed through doing the ceremony, through with full effort meeting the form of the ceremony, the two people involved, completely bringing all their effort and all their sincerity to the ceremony, and out of that, the meaning is revealed. So, and that's I think the same with all the ceremonies that we do, not just this ceremony of Dharma transmission, but all the ordinations that happen here, lay ordination, priest ordination, morning service, segaki ceremony, all the different ceremonies that happen are particular forms that have been created, but the meaning is not just in the form as a dead

[05:20]

form. The meaning comes alive through the effort of the people participating in it. I remember when I first came to Zen Center, I was told by my ordination teacher, Zen Tatsu Myo-Yu Richard Baker, that all ceremony is breath, and that has stayed with me as, not that I understand it exactly, but as something to turn and study, that all ceremony is breath. And I think bringing forth more about that is what Rob was saying about two people using the form as a vehicle, bringing forth their effort, and equal to the effort that is made, the meaning comes forth. And I think that's true right now, actually, and that's always true. Whatever you bring to it, equal to your effort and your sincerity, the meaning will be revealed

[06:25]

to you, like right now, in a Dharma talk. You can relate to my words or the forms of the Zen Do in various ways. You can kind of sit back and kind of keep it at bay, or you can be upright and making an effort, and it will be alive for you in a different way. So this is everyone's practice. It's not just Dharma transmission ceremony. It's life, ceremony of life. So in this traditional way of bringing forth the meaning through sincere effort, and I had never participated in a 21-day ceremony before, and it could not have been done.

[07:26]

I could not do this ceremony by myself. It took everybody, it took many, many, many people to have this ceremony take place. Just at Tassajara alone, just being fed, you know, there's a kitchen crew and served your meals, and the food was very, very tasty. The head cook is experimenting with a lot of herbs and spices and very low-fat cooking, so the food felt very healthy, and to not have to worry about cooking or shopping or just being totally taken care of in that realm, and in many other ways, it was very cold down there. So I was lucky to have a wood-burning stove in my cabin, and I'd use up the wood, and then the wood pile outside the door would be replenished. You know, I'd go out the next day, and it'd be all stacked and kindling, and so there were people who were taking care of that. All of Tassajara helps all of Tassajara, but I felt it very strongly during the ceremony,

[08:36]

how I was being taken care of, how everybody was coming forward to make the ceremony happen. In the morning, one of the things that was part of the ceremony was to offer incense at various altars early before the lights. It's all kerosene lanterns at Tassajara, and before the lights were lit, and coming back into kind of downtown Tassajara from one of these altars, the lights, the jikido, that's the person whose job it is to light the lamps, would have woken up and begun to light, and the lights were starting to, you know, the paths were now being illuminated as I came into the main part of the grounds. So all these different people helped with lighting lamps, and then there were attendants who volunteered to help. The jisha, ji means, well jisha together means person who carries things.

[09:39]

Usually the jisha carries incense, but sometimes you need like a flashlight, an umbrella, and a mat, and all sorts of things to be carried. So I had two jishas that rotated among six people during the time, and my feeling about these people who were ready to help and there with their umbrellas was like kind of guardian angels or guardian bodhisattvas who were there to protect me while I went through the ceremony. And just countless, countless other things, things that were prepared, cleaning of the grounds, creating the ceremonial space, making certain things that were used in the ceremony, just many, many people. And also before the ceremony happened, there was preparing robes, sewing robes, and the

[10:43]

sewing teachers, especially Galen Godwin, many of you know, and Maya, the director and Blanche all helped sewing, helped me sew, and many other people put stitches in. So wherever you turn in looking at the ceremony, there were people there who were helping to create it. It's not a one or two person event. It took countless people, innumerable labors. When we chant for our meals, we say innumerable labors brought us this food, and it was kind of like that. It was innumerable labors brought us this ceremony, including all the Buddhas and ancestors back to Shakyamuni Buddha and the seven Buddhas before Buddha. All the ceremony was brought to you by, through everyone. So, it's not appropriate in many ways to talk about actually what went on, but I want

[12:00]

to talk a little bit about the Dharma transmission, the kind of tradition of it. There have been things written which you can read about in a book called Moon in a Dew Drop, which is selected translations from Bogen Zenji, who is the founder of our school of Buddhism, the founder in Japan. Bogen Zenji wrote a book called The Treasure of the True Dharma Eye, the Shobogenzo. One translation of some of the, they're called fascicles, little chapterettes. It's called Moon in a Dew Drop, and one of the fascicles in that book is called Menju, or face-to-face transmission. This describes, and it's a lecture basically about Dharma transmission. Menju means face-to-face, two faces that face each other, and what happens then.

[13:03]

So the original Dharma transmission that is talked about in lots of different places is between, although Shakyamuni Buddha was transmitted by one of the Buddhas before Buddha named Kassho, I wasn't able to find the passage, it's probably Chinese, that talks about Shakyamuni Buddha's transmission. We know about Shakyamuni Buddha's striving and discovering for himself the truth and teaching, but this transmission from Kassho, that one of the Buddhas before Buddha, I wasn't able to find, although I found his ordination by Kassho in the Majjhima Nikaya. But the transmission from Shakyamuni Buddha to Mahakasyapa is talked about quite a bit, and you may have heard the story. Shakyamuni Buddha was on Vulture Peak in India, and he had gotten up before the assembly to

[14:05]

give a Dharma talk, and he picked up a flower, sometimes they say a lotus flower, sometimes an urambara flower, and didn't say anything, and winked. And Mahakasyapa was in the assembly, and Mahakasyapa smiled. And then Shakyamuni Buddha said, I possess the treasury of the true Dharma I, the inconceivable mind of nirvana, I entrust this to Mahakasyapa. And that was the Dharma transmission between them, between Shakyamuni Buddha and Mahakasyapa. So, what happened there? Here's the Buddha holding up a flower, not saying a word, and the assembly is sitting there, not saying a word, and then somebody smiles.

[15:05]

Well, he also winked. And then Mahakasyapa smiles, and the Buddha entrusts Mahakasyapa. This is koan number six in the Mumonkan, the Gateless Gate. And there's a lot of translations and commentary on this particular koan. So, what happened there between Shakyamuni Buddha and Mahakasyapa? What gets transmitted? What happened there? This is why it's a koan. You can't understand necessarily just by reading it. But in one of the commentaries by a Japanese teacher, Shibayama-san, he points out very strongly that just using the word transmit, it sounds like something goes from A to B, that there's something that's kind of passed over. But he says this is an inexcusable misapprehension, that in Zen, the emphasis is on one's own

[16:18]

understanding and study and personal experience. You can't be given something unless you already have it. So, to think that something is transmitted from A to B is incorrect understanding of transmission. So, another way to think about it is that it's transmission of the untransmittable, or transmission as identification with teacher-disciple identification. It's another way to think about it, rather than something going from one person to another. So, in Menju, this face-to-face transmission, Dogen, and also in the PS, in the postscript by his disciple Koen Eijo, both of them are very, very strong about the point that this

[17:23]

is face-to-face, this is eye-to-eye, seeing eye-to-eye, face-to-face, and in the presence of each other, face-to-face, eye-to-eye. And it's not reading a book and feeling you understand what some teacher says, and then saying, this is part of what they're saying in this postscript, is that a teacher read from lecturers and all, someone who had lived a hundred years ago and felt he truly understood, and said he had received transmission from this teacher, and they said, this is not correct. It has to be face-to-face, eye-to-eye, you know, real face-to-face. And so this emphasis of intimate practice together, face-to-face, is part of our lineage. And Mahakasyapa and Shakyamuni Buddha practiced together for a long time.

[18:29]

Mahakasyapa was one of his ten greatest disciples and was his successor, and taught afterwards and led the community. So they had studied together a long time. And Dogen himself, when he went to China, met with his authentic teacher, Ruijin, and when they met, Ruijin face-to-face, Ruiju, face-to-face, Menju, Ruijin said to Dogen, the Dharma has been completed face-to-face, Buddha-to-Buddha, now, and acknowledged him thoroughly right then. They recognized each other. And then they practiced together further. So this face-to-face event is very important, eye-to-eye.

[19:30]

And what happens when you have face-to-face is that the teacher cannot be a teacher unless there's a disciple or a student, and the student cannot be a student unless there's a teacher. It's really teacher-disciple, teacher-disciple comes up together. One cannot be a teacher just kind of by yourself, saying, hey, I'm a teacher. You've got to have students who consider you a teacher, or you're for yourself. And you can't be a disciple or student unless you actually consider someone your teacher and are studying with them. So teacher-disciple, each creates each other. The teacher creates disciple, and disciple creates teacher. They need each other. That's why it's face-to-face. They need each other to complete the practice. So this need is reflected in psychological, various works in psychology.

[20:38]

The psychologist Heinrich Kohut, Heinrich, Heinrich, I think it's Heinrich, what? Heinz, Heinz, thank you. Heinz Kohut talks about the importance for a child to have someone reflect back to them and mirror back to them all the interest and the love and the excitement about their various activities and states of mind and physical states, and someone who's there looking at them eye-to-eye and how important this is for a child to develop a sense of, a stable sense of self, this mirroring. And there's also been studies shown, which you may have heard about, where actually, I'll say the mother, but it could be the primary caregiver, the parent, looking at the child and the child looking back, and the eyes dilate, and then it's more intense, and it's back and forth.

[21:44]

And this kind of growing reflection back and forth between the child and the mother or father actually develops certain capacities in the brain, makes it possible for certain brain areas to be developed. And without this kind of reflection, those developments don't happen. So the importance of eye-to-eye, face-to-face, between a child and someone, this mirroring, Kohat says, the gleam in the mother's eye, this kind of gleam looking at this child, this is very not dissimilar to face-to-face, the reflecting back one to the other, teacher-disciple, and the caring and intimacy there. In a comment on this case about Mahakasyapya receiving the Dharma Transmission,

[22:51]

a Zen master unnamed said that, this isn't commentary about this, a child doesn't mind the ugliness of its mother. And I remember when I read this, when I was little, my mother would come to school for helping out as a room mother, bringing treats or whatever, and I remember thinking she was the most beautiful lady in the world, just to see her face there, coming to school with the treats or whatever it was. And I really thought that she was the most beautiful lady in the world, woman in the world. Until I got older, I realized that she was not a raven, but she was my mother. So the child does not mind the ugliness of his mother, of his or her mother, of its mother, it's just, you see that face that's reflecting back to you and mirroring you,

[23:57]

if this was the kind of mother you had, and you don't see all those kind of distinctions of ugly, fat, this, that, and the other, that's not there, there's just this face-to-face transmission, reflection reflecting back. So a teacher-disciple is also likened to kato, which is the Japanese wisteria plant, which the wisteria, the Japanese wisteria, and all wisterias, I guess, have these twining stems. When they grow, they turn and twist, actually, and connect the little tendrils to, for a wisteria, it's very important to have not just a plain wall, some vines just need a straight wall,

[25:02]

wisteria need like a lath kind of support, and they connect at different places and go up, up, towards the sun, looking for the sun, and they need this kind of support, but too much support and the plant won't grow, too little support and the plant will kind of fall on the ground, choke itself, and be in trouble. So twining vines is Dovin's description of also this teacher-disciple relationship of turning and twisting and growing towards the light with just enough support, not too much, and, you know, it takes a long time for the wisteria, like a young plant, has an enormous amount of energy, but it won't flower for maybe seven or eight years, it just puts all its energy into growing and going towards the light and climbing, and then it produces these beautiful pendulous blossoms, you know, they're long,

[26:06]

they're about, you know, this long, and they come in all sorts of colors, white and violet and a reddish violet and purples and very fragrant, and then the seed pods come after the blossoms and they hang onto the vine all during the winter and then produce, you know, more flowers in the spring. So this, Dovin, I feel, must have known about this plant very intimately to use it as the kind of model for this understanding or for teaching about teacher-disciple relationship, this twining together, and, you know, this intimacy is not always, sometimes it looks like enmity, sometimes it's pretty hard to practice with someone closely for a long time. It's pretty demanding, and there may be difficulties, and yet your lives are entwined.

[27:09]

So the word intimate in Japanese, shingetsu, also means realization. Intimacy and realization are used in Zen literature kind of interchangeably. So this word intimacy also means the word, I learned this new word, apposite, A-P-P-O-S-I-T-E, apposite, which means strikingly appropriate. Strikingly appropriate is this kind of intimacy, which is realization. So the inheritance of Dharma and the transmission through these twining vines and the intimacy of realization as something strikingly appropriate, that intimacy, the kind of intimacy that is right on, that meets completely,

[28:13]

is included within the Dharma transmission. So this identification with, not transmission of samadhi from A to B, but identification with teacher-disciple is pointing to, you know, actually what happened to Buddha during his enlightenment under the Bodhi tree, when he saw the morning star, he said, Marvelous, marvelous, all sentient beings are no different than Buddhas. It's just that because of their ignorance and delusion, they don't realize it. But this insight that all Buddhas and sentient beings are not different, this is, with the teacher-disciple relationship, this is, this teaching is very important, this identification with.

[29:21]

So to say that all Buddhas and sentient beings are not different is also not to say that everybody is exactly the same. The fact that you are born with Buddha nature, all beings, all Buddhas and sentient beings are not separate from Buddha nature, and yet each person completely expresses that on their own, in their own way, where each, their own beautifully fragrant, pendulous, delicately hued, wisteria blossom that blows in the wind and sends out fragrance in the ten directions, each person is unique, and yet, so there's difference, completely different, and at the same time there's sameness, sameness and difference, and the merging of those two as the truth of the Buddhist teaching. So to be identified with, transmission as being identified with your teacher

[30:29]

means to walk together with all the Buddhas and ancestors, and yet to express the teaching in your own unique way. So this is not copying, you know, not carbon copy, this is being born in the same lineage, but maybe not necessarily dying in the same lineage, maybe expressing the Dharma differently. And this may be painful, you know, in terms of twining vines, this entangled, and yet, you know, maybe not seeing, maybe expressing things differently, that may feel like enmity, that may feel, that may be difficult sometimes, but it also may be very joyous, too. So, you know, I wanted to read a poem to you from Dogen,

[31:37]

written in, he wrote in various styles, but this to me is a very clear expression of the vow that you have to make, what is it that gets entrusted when Shakyamuni Buddha says I entrust this to you, Mahakasyapya, there's trust there between Shakyamuni Buddha and Mahakasyapya, and Mahakasyapya practiced, as I said, for a long, long time, and Dogen says he pounded his body to dust, you know, which means he studied, inexhaustibly studied himself, and thoroughly, thoroughly studied, so much so that Shakyamuni Buddha felt that he could now entrust him, and trust him to carry on the teaching. And Dogen, this poem is a very kind of sweet poem about what it is I feel that Shakyamuni Buddha entrusted Mahakasyapya to do.

[32:46]

So here's the poem. I wake or sleep in a glass hut. What I pray for is to bring others across before myself. Although this ignorant self may never become a Buddha, I vow to bring others across because I am a monk. How august, how august, Studying the old words of the seven Buddhas, you pass beyond the six realms. So, awake or asleep in a grass hut. So Dogen, kind of night or day, his vow is to, it's the bodhisattva vow, to bring others across or to save all sentient beings before himself. And even though this ignorant self may never become a Buddha, it doesn't matter. I vow to bring others across. This is my life's work. So, it has such a grounded, simple feeling

[33:56]

and not kind of highfalutin and I got something you don't got, that kind of feeling. It's this vow, this ignorant self, whether I become a Buddha or not a Buddha, it doesn't matter. The main thing is this effort and sincerity and to vow to bring others across. In the Lotus Sutra, it talks about four things. To open people to the Buddha's wisdom, to demonstrate Buddha's wisdom, to reveal it or realize it, and to enter Buddha's wisdom. These four things are, is this vow, I feel. The vow to bring others across. The most important thing, and to trust someone that this is also the most important thing for them. If that's understood, then there's teacher-disciple identification.

[34:59]

So, this vow, the kind of most important thing, you know, all of Buddhism comes down to helping people, you know, helping other people. And what is the best way you can help people? Well, you know, maybe the best way to pass on the lineage is through Zazen, to teach people, to expose people to the Buddha's wisdom. Or to open Buddha's wisdom by opening this practice to people, demonstrating it, revealing it or realizing it, and entering this practice. It's a very concrete way to teach, to offer Zazen, Upright Sitting. So, often, you know, when we first begin to practice, we get very, I should say, lots of projections

[36:09]

about who the older students are, that senior students are the teachers, and some misunderstanding that they have it, and I don't have it, and how am I going to get it? And it all, as if all the wisdom resides out there somewhere with other people. And this, to see the, to see all the wisdom and the virtue and so forth residing outside yourself, and to seek it outside yourself, is very painful, extremely painful. That's like the twine and vines sort of twisting and choking each other. So to take back the projections and take back all the kind of fixated ideas that reside somewhere else besides you is a task that we have. And begin studying thoroughly, studying yourself, studying the teaching thoroughly.

[37:11]

So, I just want to express how grateful I am to have experienced this wonderful ceremony, and all the years in preparation for it, and to thank all the people who helped me to get to where I am today. I know for many of you, most of you, you don't know the names, and I'm not going to give you a long list of names, but just briefly, Abbott Norman Fisher offered me a sabbatical to prepare and work on the ceremony before I left, which I'm very grateful for. And I mentioned the sewing teachers, and then there's all the innumerable people. And lastly, to my root teacher, Tenshin Reb Anderson. I want to close with something that Suzuki Roshi says,

[38:22]

and I memorized it. I tried to memorize it, but I have this just in case I forget, because I want you to hear it. This is from the Sando Kai lecture. Sando Kai is the Merging of Difference and Unity. It's a poem, and Suzuki Roshi did a number of lectures on it, and they've been published in the Windbell magazine over the years. And this is lecture two. Studying Buddhism is not like studying something else. It takes time to accept the teaching completely. And the most important point is you, yourself, rather than your teacher. You yourself study hard. And what you receive from your teacher is the spirit of study, the spirit to study. That spirit will be transmitted from warm hand to warm hand.

[39:26]

You should do it. That's all. There is nothing to transmit to you. Thank you very much. So how many of you have been to question and answer before? Like you come all the time, mostly everybody. And some new people. Basically it's just a chance to ask about things that came up for you during the lecture or anything else that's on your mind or things you want to comment about or contribute. And often there's talking between. It doesn't all have to be directed towards me. We can help each other. Often your own experiences are enlightening for each other. So it's up to you all. I don't need this mic, do I?

[40:29]

Do we need it for the tape? We're taping. It depends if you want to. Yes? Sharing your experience and my question, I understand what you were enrolled in. Were you just one of the participants? I received it, yeah. Thank you. I'm going to say this like a statement, but it's also a question. About a year and a half ago, about a year ago, I was on the retreat at that time. It was very powerful. Sometimes I have tried to articulate what happened on that retreat. In a certain way,

[41:37]

I think some of what happened was some transmission during the talk, I realized. Can that happen in a group? It sounds like when you talked about the Buddha. Oh, even with Malakashapia and something being put out and one person understands. You were saying how it happens face-to-face and you can't. I know that the experience of, I hear this all the time, personally for me, going to a lecture and feeling like the teaching is coming into you as if that's what you needed exactly, like it just fits and you understand it in a thorough way. I've had that experience and I know many people who have. I don't know exactly what happened, but to have a powerful connection

[42:39]

with someone and with the teaching, it's not necessarily the person themselves, it's the teaching through the person is not unusual. But it sounds like maybe you're saying you feel like something else happened. So I don't know what to say. Did you follow up on it in any way or just receive it? There are certain ways of relating to certain phenomena and I think that will forever be changed as a result of this experience. If I try to say what it was, it's so ordinary, but experientially it's forever changed. At least when I'm awake, I'm not walking around preoccupied with something else. But I would say that probably that didn't happen for everyone there, but I always had a hunch that it wasn't just me that had that experience.

[43:40]

And I think also being with Thich Nhat Hanh, it wasn't just like you get one lecture a day, like I'm a professor, it's like walking meditation together, it's a lot more interaction. A lot of contact with him, yes. Even though you're there as a group. Well, I think to have a transformative experience by working closely with someone and it's you, I really want to emphasize that it happens because you are bringing forth everything to that study or those words. You know when we chant unsurpassed, penetrating, perfect dharma met with even a hundred thousand million kalpas, that is a chant to open us up to hearing the dharma and to bring us into uprightness to receive the teaching. Because you can kind of chant, but to bring yourself forward to meet with everything you've got

[44:42]

is when something transformative happens. So I really feel like it's important to acknowledge your part in it, that you were there for it. It didn't kind of come out of the sky and say zap, you came forward to meet it. And that's what's truly transforming, the effort that you bring. Yes? I want to segue from that and this is open to feedback on. It makes me reflect on my own personal issues but when you say that I feel something come up that says well then your ego is going to get in the way and you're going to think that this is all about you. And am I allowing myself that it's okay to know that that comes from me? I'm not really sure how to weigh in

[45:45]

on whether anybody identifies with that. So those are comments about that. A way to see it differently for me is to take it out of the spiritual realm and how many times have you read a novel or a poem that you read when you were 16 and then 25 and then you don't recall when you were 40 and how one time means one thing and then one time means another thing and then one time it's just the most profound experience of your life. And that's about you. The poem hasn't changed, the novel hasn't changed, the opera hasn't changed. So I try to take it to a less threatening place. Jeanette? First of all, congratulations. Thank you. It's wonderful and inspiring.

[46:49]

This is a comment I think it goes into that about how the ego the question about the ego I love the story about Mahakasyapa and Buddha, the transmission and the simple act of the flower and the smile and I was able to relate that with a friend we were talking about what is a pure act or a genuine undefiled act opposed to a selfish act and we were just looking at our own actions and trying to find out when was it an unselfish act and we were questioning if we had ever done an unselfish act because reflecting, it seems like everything is motivated

[47:53]

on a selfish basis and what we came up with was a smile is a truly unselfish act and in a moment that you smile the giving of it and the receiving of it is just pure and we do it all the time and there's many things that we do all the time that are just purely spontaneous and unselfish and giving and receiving and I think that's what was being acknowledged with that transmission was just the recognition of our true nature which is an innocent nature that is always there but we have this mind that closes around it immediately and questions it, which is our ego and that comes so instantaneously and I think about smiling at somebody and then my mind closes around it and I get paranoid or I think what does that mean I turn away very quickly

[48:57]

because my mind gets frightened by it but initially it's just a lovely act it's just what it is so it's affirming to have that story and it's only in another person I think that we can reflect or recognize that and when that recognition happens it's lovely and we have to just acknowledge that we have that in us all the time and note that occurrence more than the selfish because we already know that we're selfish and we already know that we're in delusion but to remember that we have our true nature it's lovely to have another person acknowledge that with us

[49:59]

and to acknowledge it with another person and to keep encouraging that is important and wonderful the word smile the root of the word smile means miracle the cognates I get miracle, marvelous, mirror, and smile are all admire, are all coming from the same root so I think the worry about being inflated if you want to put it in psychological terms like you were saying to think ah this is me I've done it or something like that to be worried about that to be sure and have it balanced I will find that mostly the problem is projecting all the goodness and virtue and wisdom outside that seems to be more prevalent a problem where you see anxiety in someone else

[51:00]

and you just want to be close to that person and you feel like you're devoid of it and to some degree I think that encourages people to do retreats and go to lectures but it gets very off balance when you project everything onto the person and don't feel like there's anything here so to counterbalance that to actually understand that when you see virtue that's you seeing virtue it's your own virtue that you see projected out that's because of your own inner virtue which tips that I feel like it puts things more in balance to actually not exactly take credit but to see your part in it rather than it belongs somewhere else and I think the danger of being inflated and arrogant around it I don't feel the danger all that much

[52:04]

I don't know all that many people who are really like hot shot I hear mostly at least one on one that people feel like they're terrible and don't have value worthless, those kinds of things rather than the arrogant side I know other people have the arrogant side problem but I mostly hear about the worthless devalued side but yes, being inflated to say I am Buddha is too much that's off but to say I'm not Buddha that's off too so what's the middle way there that understands sentient beings and Buddhas are not two yes thinking about it too much and coming back off of that

[53:06]

and thinking about it too much and coming back off of that what do you mean thinking about it too much just like reflecting on as soon as you reflect you've done an unselfish act and that kind of is a self-correcting and that reminds you that you're unselfish there's the practice of admitting that you think this way and repenting where you actually admit that you have these arrogant thoughts and the process of admitting and kind of vowing to acknowledge it thoroughly that kind of sets you back upright and then you go off again you admit that and you're back upright yes, I think that is the process kind of endlessly and what you said about

[54:06]

let's see if I can remember what I was going to comment on I just lost it it'll come back I think it's negotiating the way it's not sort of I'm on the path and I will never fall off it's negotiating this kind of yeah yes are you going with the intention that you're going through yes and I guess my question is how can you be sure that what you're talking about that transformative kind of experience it happens because of that intention or would people experience that after doing all that preparation I mean it seems like

[55:13]

there can't be a guarantee that's a very interesting question there is no guarantee I think that's what makes it real it's like with any true initiation or ceremony whatever it is a marriage or notions we just recently had the shuso ceremony where the head student answers questions from each person in the practice period plus all the ex-head students who are invited to come and you're up there by yourself and you're asked questions one after the other and there's no guarantee that you're going to be able to answer them or find the words or meet people so it is real it's not a sham it's not some kind of a rock through rubber stamp thing you are exposed to

[56:16]

the inconceivableness of the moment it's just being present totally and there's no guarantee and as soon as you think because I did this it's sure to be yada ya you're already leaping into the future you're not in the present and the meaning falls, you lose so with everything like with a marriage there's no guarantee it's going to work out in fact there was this joke in the New Yorker just this last week 11 or 12 year old girls lounging on a couch in somebody's house and one said there you go I'd like my divorce to be really amicable it was a sad commentary

[57:18]

on the 50% divorce rate in this country but anyway to make a marriage work it takes being present you can't assume there's no guarantee so yes there was preparing for the ceremony studying and preparing the materials and sewing and all the things to get ready to go down and take care of the kids getting everything in place and then it was just just out there in the world with bringing as much presence and effort to each moment as possible with no gaining idea one of his main teachings was no gaining idea are you familiar with that no gaining idea

[58:20]

and it means that in each moment when you often have this little gaining idea I'll smile at this person but they're not going to be nice to me it can be the subtlest of subtleties of this tiny gaining idea of positioning yourself to be seen or not seen or anything so to actually be in the present practicing with no gaining idea meaning I want this to be the greatest ceremony that ever came down the pike and any kind of thought of wanting it to be any other way than what's actually manifesting is gaining idea but in the realm of practice to notice gaining idea admit it kind of what we were just saying noticing there's gaining idea admitting it and coming back to the present is not gaining idea that's just more practice

[59:21]

you're not kind of condemned if a gaining idea arises to be outside of Buddhist practice you just include that was having a gaining idea and admit that so anyway the reality of it is there's no guarantee and that makes it all the more real can you say something about selecting a teacher I've read a lot and I'm just starting to really look at wanting that to happen and I hear people say it's not good to shop around and I guess I just don't I'd love it if you could just say something about that process well the shop around thing is

[60:26]

I think people are dissuaded from shop around because of being a dilettante I go to these retreats and that and you go all over and you spread yourself thin and you never deepen with one practice although in the Bay Area it's so unique in the history of Buddhism to have almost every kind of Buddhism you can imagine within the radius of I mean really it's all there Tibetan, Korean, Vietnamese everything Japanese, Chinese, Southeast Asian it's all there and you can really pick and choose whereas I think in other times there was one Buddhism and you either had an affinity with it and did it or did something else so anyway the shop around thing it's kind of hard to tell people not to shop around when there are wonderful things offered you know so in terms of connecting having a teacher I think for me

[61:33]

when I came to Zen Center in the 70s I had met Suzuki Roshi earlier in 68 I had come as a guest student but I didn't connect with her I didn't have doksan or one-on-one anything but I heard him lecture and there was something really there that drew me but I don't think I had really taken Suzuki Roshi as my teacher necessarily in that way but the practice itself was really what I came to Zen Center to do to sit zazen basically I just wanted to sit so I think that was the under the kind of bedrock was wanting to sit and then out of that came being exposed to all the different teachers that came through Zen Center there were a lot of Japanese Zen masters who spoke and Katagiri Roshi and Yoshinori Sensei and all these different people and there weren't that many western students there were no western students

[62:36]

who gave talks at that time and then when Richard Baker came back from Japan right at Suzuki Roshi's death then he began giving lots of talks and then Red I think became Tanto and gave some talks there were just a few at that time for me but I think over the years Yvonne Ran once talked about this in a lecture choosing a teacher and her Tibetan teacher Tartoko told her to choose a teacher you watch that person like a hawk and you watch them in a lot of different situations you don't necessarily just jump and say okay I take them on you watch and see both in formal situations and informal situations and you check them out thoroughly before you ask to work with them or something so I found that very helpful so just coming on Sunday

[63:39]

to be exposed to different people who lecture and maybe take a class with someone where does your affinity lie? who are you drawn to? who hits the mark for you? and what's so wonderful is that there isn't one teacher for everybody and even when Shakyamuni was alive he would be speaking to the assembly and people would leave and go and do something else and Shakyamuni would be like I gotta go and take care of that and the same with Suzuki Yoshi there were people who lived in the building and he was alive and giving talks and he'd ask I haven't seen so-and-so I really like them and they haven't been coming around so you'd think here's this land master waiting to work with you and there were people who had better things to do so I think there was a time at Zen Center where everybody had to be the student in the Abbott

[64:41]

it was a kind of when I say had we had different tiers of membership and there was something called Sanzan student where you were taken on in a teacher-student relationship with the Abbott and you got invited to certain things you had dokes on a personal interview more regularly there were certain lectures for Sanzan students only and it was a kind of initiated group and if you didn't want to take this person as your teacher but you wanted to practice at Zen Center you were kind of on the outs a little bit and I think now there's a wide variety of people that you can work closely with both at Zen Center and people who have their own small groups so there's quite it's really what do you feel interiorly meets you you know okay yes what do you mean when you talk about effort I think you mentioned it a couple of times in the lecture

[65:42]

yes effort as opposed to being aware effort as opposed to being aware I think it takes effort to be aware I think awareness is not a kind of given that's just there without your participation with effort so to make a vow to be present is like a moment by moment effort because our tendency our human tendency is to kind of go unconscious a lot and especially when there's pain painful situations, unpleasant situations to kind of turn away and retreat so to actually make the effort to be present in the moment means you don't pick and choose what you're going to be present for and that takes effort

[66:46]

it takes vow and you can experience that very clearly in like a period of Zazen where if at the beginning of the period you kind of make a vow to renounce the mind that's running away all the time and then you see how you kind of keep wanting to turn away so to bring yourself back not harshly, but because that's your vow so does that speak to what you were asking? Also it's very, you know, like in Tassajara seeing the people making the effort to practice hard like these Jishas who were helping me with the attendance at three in the morning I'd come out of my room and there they were they had the insects ready with the lit charcoal and their umbrellas and they were just ready to go it's three in the morning, it's 27 degrees and you could just feel that they were making effort

[67:50]

I mean, you could feel their effort this was not a nonchalant kind of casual thing they were there so you can experience it really yourself, you know, through your own body-mind you can feel someone's effort yeah go ahead so that's another form of transmission the energy of the effort that you someone makes an effort and they're there and they're very present their energy is coming toward you and then your energy is reciprocal with that well, I don't know if I'd use the word transmission as much it's a meridian and there's some what comes out of that is well, enormous gratitude and you know, intimateness people who loot you fully it's like that intimacy and realization that kind of looting

[68:52]

I mean, we sometimes use the word transmission loosely like, what's the transmission on how to do how to take care of the altars well, you do this, that and the other so yeah, I think just in reflecting on what you're saying having someone completely be there for you and you're completely be there for them what is between you, you know there's nothing, it's just so I guess I was just looking at it could be just a very small happening which is the point you were making if our intention is there our intention and intention yes, I don't think I mean, the 21 day sermon is a very specific entrustment, but to have this kind of meeting with people, yes, it's available around you that's our world, kind of yes, Brian

[69:55]

comment on it, did you say? well, what is your practice regarding that? I'm sort of interested in your practice I'm not interested in where the question came from exactly how is your day, your effort at being aware is there is that something well, I make an effort mindful of what I'm thinking what I'm feeling what my body sensations are every moment I try to stay aware of that during the day, and to learn from it as much as I can, who I am good, that sounds very good I mean, that sounds just right I think in support of that what you just said I try to work very strongly with posture

[71:12]

I mean, it sounds like oh, come on, you know I want to know about Zen practice, but Zen practice and posture like actually taking a posture that allows you to do what you just said being aware of thoughts and feelings and what's going on emotions that come up to actually take an upright posture to sit up in your chair up in your driver's seat to stand on two feet, not lean against walls is very supportive of that practice in fact, I see it as not apart from like unable to be separated from so I mean, it sounds like something kind of little, but I would recommend it as to use your body in the service of these vows

[72:15]

to be present because Zen is really a big body practice and to not forget it's not just sitting cross-legged or sitting up in a chair it's all day long you know, I find if I feel I'm going to be vulnerable in a situation and if I sit upright like a perfect example I'm looking at the stock market, the computer I find if I sit upright I'm just more grounded yes you know, when I walk to it I try to stay aware of it but I'm not that aware of it all the time yes well, we do forget, you know yeah something else with an open-hearted quality when your chest is sort of open

[73:15]

I have that feeling too if I get in a difficult situation and I feel constricted very constricted and closed if I just open my chest and I really have the tendency to be like this because I want to protect myself but if I do the upright position I feel like I'm leaning in the correct way and I feel more expansive area area full of breath yeah did you say the trick? is to do it when you're feeling vulnerable? what is to do it? because I don't think about it when everything is fine I see think about it when I'm not in distress when everything is fine yes

[74:18]

I think you're right but this is not to say that you can't lounge and have a cup of lemonade and lie in a hammock you know awkward, right? but as kind of an approach to your body life to have that as something you bear in mind and then I don't want to sound dumb we're not going overboard on this this is a help you don't want to use it as a kind of whip yes I wanted to ask you to say again the quote of Richard Bakers about breath and talk a little bit about your thoughts about that he said all ceremony is breath and I think I heard this right about the time when I began to lead the services I think it was after I was priest again and then before you're head student

[75:21]

you can lead noon and evening service and then after you've been head student you can lead morning service anyway there's this demarcation and you know there's various things you bow and you approach the altar you offer incense a certain way you turn certain ways and there's all these different things and I remember thinking at the time I would get caught a lot am I doing it right, how do I look I hope my robe's on straight and just a lot of thinking rather than what it was I was doing like the service that I was involved in so when he said that all ceremony is breath it was like oh you just turn you just stay with your body and breath you don't have to think of this as some kind of altered event it's just one more expression and yes there are certain moves you make and things to do but it's you come back to your own body and breath body breath and mind

[76:23]

and I found in all sorts of other ceremonies whether I was leading them or not to actually experience the ceremony non-intellectually to actually feel the power in many cases of the ceremony to stay with my breath was important so I think that's kind of my thinking on it yes you talked a little bit about this mirroring kind of thing as it occurs, understanding between say a child and a mother for example with other people sometimes I've heard this mirroring, you know saying that a person acts as a mirror of you, and other times I don't know if you do the same for them but the tendency that I see in some people sometimes is to either turn away

[77:25]

or have some sort of dishonest kind of put on a mask or face or whatever interpretation of what I see sometimes it's confusing I don't know, I get these mixed messages and then I make conclusions about whether it's either myself or them and then go from there maybe just deluded let me see if I understood what you said so in terms of mirroring the practice of mirroring you feel that sometimes someone can really reflect back to you and you feel met and seen and other times the person you put forth something and they don't mirror it back

[78:26]

or they put on a mask there's not a meeting and it's very confusing for you when this happens and you don't know then how to whether that's my own reflection you can't tell whether they are mirroring or is it real is that something that I don't want to look at and it's just being shown to me it might be fine for you to do it well, you know, there's one way to think of this which I found very helpful which is, whatever comes to you whatever is Buddhadharma, whatever so if you've got a person who's putting up a mask and subterfuge and you're being upright in front of that whatever that is, that you don't understand that's confusing, that hurts because they're not seeing you or meeting you or running from you or whatever it is that is Buddhadharma, that is a chance to practice very hard

[79:28]

so you may not be able to figure out what's going on with them right then and there or what the deal is but you do know that it's unclear you feel bad, it's emotional you know that so admitting that, practicing with that and then maybe you can say I don't know what's happening here, I feel really confused when I said that, it looked like you were really angry or whatever it is you have a chance then if you receive that as Buddhadharma to stay upright in your own Dharma position and stay where you're at around it do you see what I mean? if you try to figure out and kind of find out and get around and where's the mask it's like you get very lost, one gets very lost with dealing with, you have to just stay with

[80:29]

what that felt like, the confusion of it so yes, I think some people can't mirror you back in that way but that is a mirror that will reflect exactly how you're feeling which is awful for that situation and then you practice with that yeah? ok thank you there was another hand somewhere, where did it go? I just wanted to thank you for what you said about your mother I've had a very difficult year with my mom because she's been so ill her mind is gone I was just thinking the last time I saw her a few days ago, she's 83 years old she's all wrinkly, she's never looked more beautiful and I was also wondering how your parents are doing and if either one of them were able to be

[81:31]

with you for your transition no they weren't, they're pretty much in this facility for seniors and they're doing pretty well, my mom's made a real good adjustment, my parents both had strokes I know some of you know they're now in an assisted living situation where they have their own apartment but they get lots of help and they wear these buttons in case my mother's phone, you press a button they'll be there in two minutes so they're very supported in this place she's doing pretty well, my dad is really not accepting that this is how they're going to be living he's kind of angry and depressed but my mom's coming out of it when I came upon this Zen master's comment about

[82:32]

a child never sees the ugliness of their mother and remembering and I know that many people who have had very difficult relationships with their mothers which may have brought them to Zen practice the pain around that relationship so I understand that in Tibetan Buddhism they use the image of the mother in many different ways, for example one of the practices is to see every person as your mother what they were your mother in past lives all these people, they have been your mother and to treat them in that way but I feel like for many of us Westerners, our relationships with our mothers were so problematic that you can't use that as a practice that practice doesn't hold

[83:36]

because there's too much anger and difficulty but anyway, my mother this seeing her also, I didn't say this in lecture but like singing in chorus scanning the audience seeing that she's there this I feel like even if one has had difficulty with their mothers there may be some of that as well and not and same with the teacher student that it doesn't matter and especially as people get older and lose their kind of youthful bodies and all that, to actually that it doesn't matter just like you said, with all the wrinkles and all she's more beautiful than ever to you and that's you, that's to you she's beautiful to everybody really beautiful the commentary goes on about the ugliness

[84:45]

it's really interesting, I was shocked when he was holding up the flower and that Mako Shab here didn't notice the ugliness of that flower just the whole thing about ugliness anyway, if you want to read it, it's in the Shibuyama translation of the Numankan, chapter 6, case 6 it's a very interesting comment write it down somewhere it's an old book, I don't know if we've got it in the library it's been around for a while so, any other comments? are we all talked out? I wanted to say something about dealing with physical problems physical pain and the the no game idea because I find, I think I have problems with when I have an onslaught of negativity

[85:47]

or an onslaught of a lot of reflections of being overwhelmed and thinking well, I'm not going to try to get out of this I'm going to try to improve this kind of aversion to it and self-improvement but that doesn't seem right either I think that there should be healing of what's presenting itself to you as Buddhadharma so, you can't point it out by doing such and such there's no rule of thumb

[86:48]

if you do these things, that means you've got game idea and game idea I mean, somebody who's sitting there in Zazen they go, they don't have game idea they're just dealing with spiritual materialism or whatever and somebody else is doing some other working at the bank or whatever and they're just doing their job there's no way to perceive it, it's imperceptible in that way you can't perceive it so, for you to take care of yourself thoroughly and study what's happening now what's the next thing talking with people, getting help and healing can, I feel, be done without game idea, it doesn't mean that you don't include healing and caring for the body and protecting the body as part of it Thank you What time is it?

[87:57]

About twelve thirty About twelve thirty, go ahead I have a question, but I believe you mentioned that if you don't have something how do you connect with other people if you don't have something if you don't have something in yourself and that made me think that the next step you mentioned that if you you are not going to be a Buddha but you can have to make other people Buddha the story you were talking and I cannot make connections if I don't have something I know I have some egos myself, and then I'm not going to be able to give to other people the thing I really want to give at the same time, I want to be a model

[89:02]

for other people to make them Buddha but I cannot be Buddha myself It's just so confusing I'm not sure I understood everything but let me try and see if I did so that poem I read where Darwin says night and day in my grass hut this isn't exactly it, but my vow is to take others across me and ferry them across the river before myself, even if I'm never Buddha this is my vow that all beings should be Buddha before me and so you're asking you're bringing up the seemingly apparent confusion of how can I help other people be Buddha if I'm not sorry, if I'm not already Buddha myself and how can I ferry people across if I'm not, that kind of confusion I feel like I can be a model

[90:02]

but I know I don't have that in me at the same time you mentioned it's not right to say I'm Buddha or I'm not a Buddha Well, the Buddhist teaching, when you say I don't have it in me, according to Buddhist teaching that would be heretical do you know that word? Heretic, you know it says something that's not what the teaching is so part of the teaching is that all sentient beings are Buddha nature, that's just sentient beings and Buddha are not two now, it is true that when we think about ourselves we think they can't possibly be thinking about me they don't need me, Buddha nature stops here you know, it's about up to here so to that quote I read from Suzuki Yoshiko he said, studying Buddhism is not like studying something else, it takes time

[91:04]

until the teaching is really accepted completely so you have some kind of teaching like this that you are Buddha nature or sentient beings and Buddhas are not two and you don't, how, it's like could this be true, but then it's so marvellous you know, just like the Buddha said marvellous, marvellous, all sentient beings have Buddha nature but they don't know it because of their ignorance and so forth so to hold this in mind that we all are Buddha nature or sentient beings and Buddhas are not two and the vow which is the Bodhisattva's vow to save all sentient beings or have everyone enlightened before you, that compassionate vow so just having that vow to save all sentient beings or to ferry those across

[92:06]

or to work for the benefit of others before you that's what a Buddha would do so whether you feel like you are Buddha or not or understand Buddha nature or not if your effort is to help beings this is making yourself an example and you don't have to know it's actually inconceivable anyway you can't know it in the way you know regular stuff so just kind of to hold it it's almost like you can't hold it almost in your mind yes I am Buddha and I'm going to help everybody else to understand this before I fully understand it how can I be Buddha and then do that if I'm not Buddha I can't do it if I am then I already am do you see that how it kind of keeps flickering back and forth and swirling around a little bit so this great vow to expose beings

[93:10]

to reveal let's see what is it open people to Buddha's wisdom demonstrate it, reveal it and enter Buddha's wisdom this vow, even Durga is saying whether I ever become Buddha or not it doesn't matter this is my vow and this will and there is no difference between that vow and understanding the Buddha nature in a way that we want to understand it there is no difference between that vow

[93:42]

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