Welcome back. So we'll start with a few minutes of meditation, and then I'm going to continue talking about Zen in China. So where we are now in this long narrative that covers a few thousand years, we began with this text, the transmission of light.

[05:08]

And there are these chapters, those of you who've been joining me, that began with Shakyamuni Buddha. And then we heard something about his transmission of the light to his disciple, Ananda, excuse me, Mahakashapa. and then Mahakashapa to Ananda and so on over many centuries. This is the Zen version of how we got here from there, from Shakyamuni Buddha to us, is by this transmission of light or Dharma transmission. So the first Dharma transmission was Shakyamuni Buddha holding up a flower and Mahakashapa smiles. So that's the start of our understanding of what Zen transmission looks like. Somebody holds up a flower and the student smiles. So, and on from there. And many of these stories have a similar quality. And there's something a little bit, I wouldn't call it magic. I would say obvious. There's something obvious.

[06:08]

And what's obvious is pretty magical. Where we are in this world, what it's like to be alive and all of that. We really are dealing with a vast mystery. And I think we're all kind of pretending it's not quite as big as it is, but You know, I think Zen's inviting us to open the doors and kind of blow out the perspective on what's happening here. So, as I mentioned last week, the next phase of the formation of Zen in China really does read like a novel, and that's because it really was a novel. There's maybe one of the earliest narratives or novels in our tradition features our next Zen master, the sixth ancestor. So parts of this novel or going into making this novel include literally palace intrigue. There are emperors and empresses involved. There's fake news among rival sects. They make up stories about each other. There's a lot of competition. And there's a winner takes all.

[07:11]

And that is our next Zen teacher, Hoi Nung, the sixth ancestor, who takes the crown, which is a little bit unusual because he himself, Hoi Nung, is only mentioned slightly in the historical record as one of 10 of the fifth ancestor's disciples. There's his name, and that's about it. So how he ended up being the sixth ancestor is part of the story or the narrative that resulted in the Zen that we know today and what we honor today as our history, as our inheritance. So for his descendants, that would include all of us in the Zen school, by way of good storytelling, you know, he became the king of the Dharma. And I was going to mention to you that when we're doing morning service, which we're not right now because of COVID, but when we go back to doing that, when I and others are the doshi, meaning the head priest who stands in the center of the room and does ritual practice with the students as they're chanting along, there's one part of the recitation when we're

[08:20]

chanting the names of what are called the Buddhas and ancestors. So it starts with, just like I was saying, it starts with Shakyamuni Buddha and goes through all of these names, one after the other. And they're in Japanese, Sino-Japanese. So most of us who've been doing this for years have memorized these names. But there are a couple of names, which as the leader of the service, you bow in particularly honoring the name of some of these ancestors. So Shakyamuni Buddha. Aibao, and Nagarjuna, Aibao, the second Buddha, Bodhidharma, the first ancestor in China, and Huanong. So this obscure monk has gotten on our list, and that's the story I'm going to tell you about. How did he get on this list? There's also the founder of Soto Zen, Tozan Ryokai. There's Ehe Dogen, Aibao, and there's Kezan Jokan himself, who's the author of The Transmission Flight. So these are kind of the big names in our own Zen history.

[09:22]

And each of them is honored with a kind of special everyday honoring. So without going into too much historical detail, although I really like historical detail, so I'll try to resist. The logical side or the logos side, as I've been referring to it, the logos being logic, scholarship, and so on, and mythos being storytelling, legends. you know, fairy tales and so on. These two sides are very important to Zen and how we understand Zen and how we're inspired by Zen. I don't know that I would be quite so inspired by simply reading the historical record. In fact, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't as much as I enjoy it. What really brought me to practice and what continues to inspire me are the fairy tales, are the stories, the mythos side, the mythics, the legends and so on. So And at the same time, there's a complementary relationship between what happened and then what stories were told during those periods of time.

[10:24]

So what scholars have painstakingly uncovered about these legends concerning the Zen masters of what's called the Golden Age of Zen, how they were produced, as it turns out, they were written centuries later by the urban elite. of the capitals of China. China had two capitals at the time. There was Luoyang and Changyang. Not sure I'm pronouncing this correctly. But the emperors and empresses would travel between these two. One was up in the mountains, one was in the plains, and they both had very important roles to play in the empire. So that's why they had these two important cities. And so there's a scholarly account of Zen that begins with a written record. So this is one of the very earliest actual, you know, saved document that was written by the Empress of China, inviting a Zen monk by the name of, I'll spell it for you, Shen Shui, S-H-E-N, X-I-U.

[11:28]

So just remember the X-I-U, that's the way I remember it. Shen Shui was actually a very well-regarded monk teacher of his day. He was a real guy. There is a historical record. He was carried into Chanong on a palanquin, and flowers were strewn, and everyone came out and waved banners, and all of this is recorded in the historical record. He was given great ceremonial honors, and the empress bowed to him, unheard of, in a gesture of, as it says, reverent dedication and chaste purity. So this is kind of a big deal. So this actual teacher who was a disciple of the fifth ancestor, Hongren, did study at the East Mountain, like we were talking about in the last few weeks, East Mountain teachings. So he was, in fact, the sixth ancestor. He was the head monk of the East Mountain under Hongren, and he was transmitted Hongren's teaching.

[12:31]

And there would not have been any question of it except for some really quirky stuff that happened in the centuries to follow. So Hongren didn't really have too much unusual to say. He basically had a few writings that were quite standard. He said something to the effect that, you know, practice diligently and watch your mind and behave yourself, you know, follow the precepts and so on. So he wasn't controversial and he was giving traditional Mahayana Buddhist teachings, primarily around the Lankavatara Sutra, the mind-only teachings. So in the earliest records, written records of the Zen school, as I was saying, this chanting that we do of the names of the ancestors, these earliest genealogical records, these names of the ancestors, was called the transmission of the lamp. So they're very, very old texts. They begin for China with Bodhidharma, and they end with Zen shi.

[13:32]

Xiu, X-I-U, they end with his name. So these records are now considered by us, the inheritors of this very strange turn of events, as the northern school records. And when I hear northern school, having been trained in the southern school, I think, oh, not so important. So it's really funny to watch how my own understanding of... What was important and what's not so important was carved by how this history was created, this kind of mythic history going way back when. So these texts and treatises and legends were written, as I said, by these highly educated urban Buddhist writers who created a very sophisticated literature and were able to appeal to the citizens of the capital. You know, these are the... the people who can read and write and have not much to do with their time. They're wealthy people. So they have big influence in the country. And as a result of their infusion with Zen teaching, they spread the teaching around.

[14:36]

So it began to make its way into all of China. And it was considered important by the elite. So it was considered important by the other merchant class and the laborers and so on. So in this way, it kind of topped down infusion. of Zen Buddhism until finally Zen Buddhism was basically the Buddhism of China as a whole. So I think it's interesting to reflect on how the Buddhism now, you know, in this modern day or postmodern, I suppose, is being really held by the universities, you know, very famous universities of this country like UC Berkeley and Stanford and University of Chicago, where you can go and study Buddhist studies. You can study these texts, you can commentaries, the philosophy, the languages and so on. And having had gone to a few classes by some of these professors, particularly at UC Berkeley, most of them said in the old days, when they first were teaching at university level, they did not talk about their own practice.

[15:41]

They didn't reveal to the students in the university classes that they indeed were practitioners, Dharma practitioners. But recently, Dr. Sharf, Robert Sharf from UC Berkeley, who's come to Zen Center a few times to help us do some wonderful teaching with us here. He said, that's not true anymore. They're really okay about saying that they practice Tibetan Buddhism or Zen Buddhism or whatever it is they do. So it's really interesting to me how this intelligentsia or the urban centers are still holding the seeds of the Dharma for what might imagine would be hundreds and hundreds of years today. to follow. UC Berkeley is taking a lot of our papers from Zen Center. You know, the things that we think are, really, you want that? You know, maps and diagrams of the property and all kinds of stuff. And they have a whole archive on the San Francisco Zen Center, which is being held for the, you know, for the students to come in centuries ahead and go into our caves.

[16:42]

to dig through the files and find stuff about this quirky thing that happened back in California in 2021 or whenever. Anyway, so I don't think it's kind of a parallel, understandable parallel situation between what was happening in China in the eighth and ninth centuries and what's happening now as Buddhism seeps its way into our culture, hopefully so. So again, looking back at what was happening in China, Hongren, the fifth ancestor student, this Sen Shui, X-I-U, his message was really just, as I said, simply practice contemplation of the mind, mind only, work to be a bodhisattva here and now, here and now, so right now, and in this lifetime, and in every moment of your life. Be Buddha. So that's pretty straightforward. And everything would have gone well for him, actually. He already had made it. By the time he died, he was the most famous Buddhist teacher in China, and he was already recorded as the sixth ancestor.

[17:47]

And then this is a really funny part. Along comes a monk by the name of Shen Hui. So this is same S-H-E-N and then H-U-I. So there's Shen Shu, X-I-U, and now there's Shen Hui, which makes it very confusing. I use teaching as being gradualistic and meaning that was dualistic. He was saying, well, if you practice to get something, meaning you don't already have it, that's dualistic. You're putting the present moment and you're the path in the present and you're putting the future, the accomplishment of the path enlightenment somewhere else. So he said that's dualistic before and after is dualistic. Practicing to get something, by your own effort is dualistic. So he started to give these public denouncements of the teachings of this very famous Zen master.

[18:49]

And little by little, it reminds me again of the modern era, just keep saying terrible things about this teacher. And a lot of what he said wasn't true. It was kind of fake news. He was accusing him of all kinds of things, having to do with the doctrine, having to do with the teachings. And as a result, At some point, he too passed away, but his claims of himself, this HUI's, Ong Shen Hui's own claim of being a descendant of this obscure monk by the name of Huang Nong, turned out to be this incredibly successful PR campaign. And as a result, he overturned Zen history within a few generations. I mean, this is a true story. And it's like, wow, you know. So we're carrying, there I am bowing to Huynong, who, you know, was kind of a made-up figure. However, he served a very important function as a literary figure and as a legendary figure in carrying or being the gathering place in his person of all of the teachings that were important to Zen.

[20:00]

And I'm going to say a little bit about how that happened. The basic distinction that this monk who was criticizing the very famous monk was making, that this probably something you may have heard, is between some idea of a gradual path to enlightenment. It's also called steps and stages. Do you do this, and then you do this, and then you do this, and then you do that. And little by little, you make your way to enlightenment. So or this is the gradualistic approach as opposed to getting enlightened on the spot right now. Just do it. So this is called the sudden, sudden path to enlightenment is just do it right now. Don't wait. There's no later. There's no other time but now. So this sudden teaching, which is what you'll hear a lot when you listen in on, you know, Zen teachers in this era. has a lot to do with this very time is Buddha, this very place you're Buddha, right now is Buddha, and what are you looking for?

[21:10]

It's already happened. It's already true. So this advocacy in front of these large crowds were very successful, and this Senhui, H-U-I, did not actually go to monasteries. He didn't practice with the monks. He just did this publicity campaign, and he said to the crowds, Everyone in the crowd, he said, arouse the thought of Buddha, the bodhicitta. Just arouse the bodhicitta, and right on the spot, you will be enlightened. Well, that's got to sound good. You know, I mean, I think he was very popular for offering this kind of right now. If you just think of Buddha, arouse the mind of enlightenment, and you've got it right now. It will meet you. That arousing of the thought of enlightenment will be met by enlightenment itself for the benefit of all beings. So this thought of the seed, he declared, meets together in each of you, and you're already enlightened nature. You're already enlightened. You just forgot, or you're overlooking it, or you're clouded up with various kinds of erroneous thinking and discursive thinking.

[22:18]

So just forget about that and focus on the Buddha that you are. And then right on the spot, there it is. Worry no more. Any effort or technique or method that one might teach to attain realization was vehemently attacked by this person, Shen Hui. And as a result of his talent at eviscerating his opponents, since that time, no one in the Zen tradition up till, you know, today, dares to talk about a gradual path to enlightenment. You know, he's so shook the institution that it's like, Oh, I didn't say you could get enlightened by doing anything. You know, I wouldn't be accused of that. So he really had a profound impact, kind of intimidating impact on generations that followed. So he said, you know, any idea of some kind of separation of the path and the goal or separation of then and now, as if one could, is delusional.

[23:25]

So... You know, in terms of ultimate truth, ultimate teaching, he's absolutely right. There is no then and now. It's an illusion. It's the way we think. It's a way of thinking. There is no separation between the path and the goal. The path is enlightenment. Enlightenment is the path. So, you know, it's not like... In some sense, his teaching, his challenge to the gradualist path really does hold the day in terms of what's going to happen now and turning away from the primary teachings of the Yogacara or the Mind Only School and turning towards the primary teaching of the Prajnaparamita, which, as I think those of you familiar with, particularly the Heart Sutra, no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no path, no Buddha, no way. You're just like, no, no, no. Just this, just this, just this. So anyway, so as a result of Shen Hui's attacks on Shen Shi, the very famous teacher, there was a major rift in this baby Zen school, which had just been getting its legs in China, into these two major factions.

[24:41]

One was called the Northern School. This is the famous master, Sen Shui. And the other was the southern school. And this became Hoi Nong, the sixth ancestor. So the way this crisis was eventually resolved also has its own little bit of history. And that is by the intervention of a third school. You don't have to remember any of this. Just to know that there was a third school that was founded and existed on a mountain called Oxhead Mountain. And it was called the Oxhead School. And the Oxhead School didn't last very long. In fact, you may not have heard of it before, but the Oxhead School, while it lasted, had a very big impact in China. And it was said to have been a descendant, the founder of the Oxhead School was a descendant of the fourth ancestor, Daoxin, who was the fifth ancestor's teacher. So there was another little branching stream that went off from the fourth ancestor. So the fifth ancestor led to Huinong, and then this fourth ancestor led to the Oxhead School.

[25:44]

So now the Oxhead School, and this is, again, this is just a little footnote. The Oxhead School didn't actually die out completely. It died out in China. However, it was transmitted to Japan by a very famous Japanese master by the name of Saito. who is the founder of this very, very powerful sect in Japan called Tendai Buddhism. Tendai was the biggest sect in Japan for a long time. And the primary devotion of that sect is the Lotus Sutra. What's interesting about this little linkage is that Dogen Zenji, who is our founder, originally studied as a Tendai monk. He was ordained as a Tendai monk. And he studied the Lotus Sutra of all the citations in Dogen Zenji's writings. he most often cites the Lotus Sutra. And this has to do with his very early studies. As a young teenage boy, like 14 years or so, he studied for many years reading the Lotus Sutra in this Tendai school.

[26:48]

So it's kind of a funny little line that came down and affected us in later years, branching streams, meeting together in these little rivlets, forming a very powerful, you know... outcome in Japan, which is called the Soto Zen School. So all of these threadlets or rivlets eventually merge and come to be our current, what has currently survived through the centuries. And so what the Oxhead School, back to the Oxhead School for a moment, the thing they did that they're most famous for is they wrote... This masterpiece, what's been called the greatest masterpiece of early Chinese Zen Buddhism, the Platform Sutra. The greatest masterpiece of early Chinese Zen Buddhism, which was written about the 8th century, nearly 100 years after the events in this Platform Sutra are said to have taken place. So 100 years after Huinong, this sutra is written.

[27:50]

So again, here's the novel. It's a novel, and it's a really good one. I've been reading it again. I haven't read it for years. And it's really delightful. It's full of all kinds of wonderful teachings. There's the story of Huynong that's told, which if you have studied Zen a bit, you will have heard parts of that story. There's things that Huynong says to his teacher and says to other monks that are quite repeated, things you might hear teachers in a lecture say, you know, where'd that come from? Quite a lot of it. As the Bible is a source of a lot of little quotes that we've all heard throughout our lives, the Platform Sutra is a source of a lot of quotes that you'll hear in Zen. All right, so where are we going to take it? Okay, so I wanted to now turn to – I wanted to, first of all, recommend to you all, highly recommend that you check out the Platform Sutra. And the version that I find –

[28:51]

to be most enjoyable, for many reasons, is the one that was translated by Philip Jampalsky in 1967, published in 1967. So here's a picture on the cover of Hway Nung, the sixth ancestor, our legendary sixth ancestor, in the rice-pounding room of the fifth ancestor's temple, where he was sent to be a workman. That's part of his story. So he arrives, he can't read, He has had an enlightenment experience. He's heard, which I'm going to share with you in a sec. He's heard one line from a Prajnaparamita Sutra. And as a result of hearing that one line, he has a big awakening. So then he goes and finds the fifth ancestor and becomes his heir, his descendant. That's the story. That's the story. So... And now we're back to the Transmission of Light and the version of the Platform Sutra that Keizan has recorded of sharing his own understanding of this very famous text.

[30:01]

It's chapter 34 in the Transmission of Light, Huynong, Daikaneno in Japanese. So Huynong worked in a mill at Huangmei, where the Zen master Hongren, fifth ancestor, was teaching. One night, the Zen master came to the mill and asked Huynong, is the rice white yet? So Huynong's out there pounding rice. Huynong says, it's white, but it hasn't been sifted. The Zen master knocks the mortar three times with his staff, the grinding mortar that Huynong's using to grind the rice. Huynong shakes the sieve, the rice sieve, three times in response. and enters the abbot's room. This is that kind of Zen thing, right? So what? All of that, what does that mean? Well, my understanding is the rice white yet is, he's kind of asking Huynong, are you awake? Have you purified your mind? Have you purified your understanding?

[31:03]

Is your mind clear? Is the rice white yet? Has it been cleaned? Has the khal been cleaned off the rice? You know, if you've ever seen, well, brown rice is the hull, right? So when you clean off that hull, you get these white grains of rice. Is it white yet? And he says, yes, it's white, but it hasn't been sifted. So he hasn't been trained. Huynong is a natural, but he hasn't gone through monastic training. He's not even ordained. He's a workman. So during the first quarter of the seventh century, now this is going back a little bit, Kezon's telling the story of Huynong. Huynong's father was demoted and sent to the southern frontier where he settled down. After his father died, Huynong was raised by his poor mother, and as he was growing up, they were very, very poor, and he eked out a living by cutting wood. So he was a woodsman. One day when Huynong went to the market with a bundle of wood, he heard a traveler reciting the Diamond Sutra, the Diamond Cutter Scripture.

[32:09]

When the traveler reached the part where it says, you should activate the mind without dwelling on anything. You should activate the mind without dwelling on anything, without being attached to anything. Kuenang experienced enlightenment on hearing that. Some of you know... My teacher, Reb Anderson, has a temple up the road here that he named the mind of no abode. So that's basically this very same, the mind of no abode, a mind that does not dwell on anything, a mind that is not caught by anything, isn't attached to anything, which is the mind. That is how the mind is. But we don't notice how free the mind is, you know, because we're on to the next level. distraction and we're on to the next object of awareness. And we miss the whole, you know, clarity of the mind by not paying much attention to the means by which we view the world is consciousness, is the mind, is awareness itself.

[33:18]

Awareness is pure. It has no defilements. It's not messed up. It's just pure. It's clear. You can see through. You see through your awareness and then you look at objects and you forget. You know, you forget about your mind that's viewing the world. So you should activate the mind without dwelling on anything, on any of these objects of awareness. Huenang experienced enlightenment, and he said to the traveler, what scripture is that? Who did you learn it from? And the traveler said, it's called the diamond cutter, and I learned it from the great teacher Hongren in Huangmei. So he's now sending Huenang off to Huenang. the fifth ancestor's temple. So Muay Ning tells his mother that he's intending to seek a teacher and he becomes friend with a wealthy man and so on and so forth. And he becomes kind of famous around town because this wealthy man has a sister who's a nun and she tells everybody, you should listen to this guy.

[34:23]

He really understands the teaching. So many people gather around him, but he's not satisfied. He knows the rice isn't sifted. He needs to find a teacher to help him to really kind of complete his studies and complete his understanding. So Huaning thinks to himself, after all these monks and nuns and lay people come and gather in large numbers to study with him, he says to himself, I seek the great teaching. Why should I stop halfway? And so he leaves. The next day he leaves. He needs to sift the rice. He meets with another person who says, you know, you have a very serene appearance. You're not like ordinary people. So Huay Nung, very much like Shakyamuni Buddha. When people saw Shakyamuni Buddha, his former traveling companions, they said the same thing. You have a very serene appearance. You know, who do you study with? Who are you? And this teacher says to Huay Nung, I've heard there's an Indian Bodhidharma teacher

[35:29]

that the Indian master Bodhidharma transmitted the mind seal, and it's been handed down to this Hongren, fifth ancestor, who lives in Wang Mei. You should go there and seek certainty. You should go there. So Hui Nung thanks him and leaves. He goes directly to Wang Mei, and he calls on Zen master Hongren. So one of the things that's happening in this transition from the earliest... formations in Zen, which mostly these single monks off in the mountains meditating. Now we have this dialogue beginning to show up. So we have the exchanges between, you know, Bodhidharma and Huayka. That was kind of a one-on-one. Then Huayka to Senggan and Senggan to Daoshin, Daoshin to Hongren. But now we have the narrative is now about these dialogues, about these, like koans. They're basically... conversations between a teacher and a student or a teacher and a teacher, which are recorded and passed down.

[36:31]

So we're now in the phase of Zen, which is all about dialogue, conversation. So Huyneng meets with Hongren, and Hongren says to him, where do you come from? And Hongren says, I'm from the south. And the master said, what are you seeking? Hongren says, I just seek to be Buddha. The master says, Southerners have no Buddha nature. How can you attain Buddhahood? He's test poking, right? He's testing him. Huynong says, as far as people are concerned, there are north and south. But how could that apply to the Buddha nature? As far as people are concerned, there's north and south. But how does that apply to the Buddha nature? The Zen master knew that this was not an ordinary man. and he sent him to the rice-pounding quarters of the monastery. Huinong went to work pounding rice, and for eight months he worked without rest. Okay, so here's this very interesting and textured exchange so that, you know, Hongren recognizes this Huinong already has this enlightened quality, and he knows he needs to go slow with him.

[37:49]

He needs to protect him. And he also needs to help him to confirm his own understanding. People can really go off the rails at various points in their Zen practice or any kind of practice where you're really challenging your basic understanding of yourself and of the world. You know, it can be very disturbing. And as I've said before, there are times when Zen teachers have really regretted pushing too hard at the wrong time and having someone basically not be able to come back. from what is a kind of disturbing uh disillusion of their of their notions of who they are and what's going on you know everyone has their kind of narrative that they've learned and memorized and repeated so many times when that narrative gets you know whacked away what have what's there the clear mind but that's a lot of people report that that's the time of a lot of fear when you get kind of scared like I don't think I want this. I think I want to go back to when I was really clear about who I was and what I know.

[38:54]

So the teacher is being very careful. And he sends them to work. I think one reason we have such a fondness in our own community for work practice is it really helps people to just get grounded, out there digging potatoes, washing lettuce, cooking rice. all of these physical labors are very grounding and people are sleepy at night, you know, they get up and sit and then they do this manual work. And I think it, and they report that they feel very much healthier than they have for a long, long time, or maybe in some cases ever. So there is some wisdom in the physical labor of bringing your body, you know, up to a good, get a good sweat going. Yeah. So he's pounding rice, eventually realizing that the time for transmission, this is Hongren now, has come. Master Hongren says to the assembly of monks, the truth is very hard to understand. So don't uselessly memorize my words and take that as your own responsibility.

[39:59]

You know, don't take my teachings. Each of you should freely compose a verse. If the meaning of the words is in accord with truth, I will give you the robe. and the teaching, and you will become my Dharma heir. So he's put out this kind of challenge to the monks. At that time, Sen Sri, X-I-U, this is the guy who really was the sixth ancestor, the very famous monk who the Empress welcomed to the capital. At that time, Sen Sri... Exayu was the eldest of more than 700 monks in the community. He was versed in both social and mystical sciences, and he was admired by everyone. They all deferred to him, reasoning that he couldn't write an appropriate, if he couldn't write an appropriate verse, no one could. So none of them tried it. And so then Sanjui, hearing the praise of the community, like, well, you're our guy. You're going to write the verse. We're not even going to bother. So he hears all of that. He breaks that in a sweat.

[41:00]

You know, that's a lot of pressure. Everyone thinks you got it, and he's starting to have some doubt. So over a period of four days, he tries and fails 13 times to present his verse. Finally, he thought that it might be better to write it on the wall of the hall. And if the Zen master Hongren thought it was satisfactory, he would come forth and say that it was his. If the master thought it wasn't satisfactory, he would go past his years in the mountains, go live as a hermit. You know, he says, very honorable man is, you know, at least they let him be an honorable man before they take him down. Why practice anymore receiving the homage of others if you don't have true understanding? So that night at midnight, when no one would know, Shen Sui, X-I-U, took a lamp and went into the South Hall where he wrote his verse on the wall expressing his insight. Another interesting little side tale, which is told in the Platform Sutra, but doesn't have, Kezan hasn't written, is that the wall, which is outside of Holmgren's room in the monastery, had just been plastered in preparation for having paintings done on the wall from scenes of the Lankavatara Sutra.

[42:14]

So again, they're emphasizing that at this time, the Lankavatara Sutra, the mind-only teachings, were premier. That was the Zen school, the school of the Lankavatara Sutra. So When San Sui writes his poem on this freshly plastered wall, the Holmgren decides not to have these paintings put on the wall. So the Lankovatar Sutra literally is not going to be illustrated in the temple. This is kind of a metaphor for its passing away as the dominant text. So the head monk takes this lamp and he writes this poem. The body is the tree of enlightenment. The mind, like a clear mirror. Stand. Time and again, wipe it diligently. Don't let it gather dust. Don't let the mirror gather dust. So this is his meditation instruction.

[43:15]

This is how to practice. You know, your mind, the body is the tree of enlightenment. The mind is this clear mirror. Stand. Time and again, wipe it. Wipe the mind. clean of these disturbances and don't let it gather dust. That's okay. So that's his poem. The next day, as the Zen master is walking around, he sees the verse and knowing that it has been composed by Sen Sui, he praises it saying, if later generations practice in accord with this, they too will realize an excellent result. And then he had everyone memorize it. Now, he doesn't say they will realize awakening. He just says, you'll have a wholesome life. You know, things will be okay if you practice in this way. So hearing this verse recited in the mill, Huynong asked the student, what writing is this? The student told Huynong that what had transpired and Huynong had him recite the verse again.

[44:18]

So Huynong, not being able to read, is hearing all the monks trying to memorize this verse, as Hongren has told him to do. So he hears it, and then after a silence, he says, well, that's very nice, but it's not perfect. The student scolds him and says, what does a common sort like you know? Don't talk like a madman. You know, how dare you? Hoi Nung says, you don't believe me, but I'd like to add a verse to this. The student just looks at him without answering and laughs. walks away. So that night, Huynong takes a servant boy with him to the hall. Huynong holds up a lamp while he has the boy write another verse next to that of Sang Sui. This is Huynong's verse. Enlightenment is basically not a tree, and the clear mirror is not a stand. Fundamentally, there is not a single thing. Where can dust collect? Enlightenment is basically not a tree, and the clear mirror is not a stand.

[45:24]

Fundamentally, there is not a single thing. Where can the dust collect? So this is reminiscent, for those of you, again, familiar with the Prajnaparamita, the Heart Sutras. No tree, no mirror, no stand, not a single thing, no eyes, no ears, no nose. Kind of leaves you standing in midair. That's kind of part of the transformation of consciousness that the Heart Sutra brings about. It's like nothing to grab a hold of, nothing to get your hands on. It's like trying to grab empty space, as Bodhidharma said. Trying to grab enlightenment is like trying to grab empty space. There is space, but you can't get a hold of it. You can't grab it. There is enlightenment, but you can't grab it. You can't get it. It's already yours. It's already what you are. So seeing this verse, everybody on the mountain said that it was the work of a living saint, and everyone praised it. The Zen master, knowing it was Huinong's verse, says, who composed this?

[46:29]

It is someone who has not perceived his real nature yet. So saying, he erases the verse, and because of this, the community ignored it thereafter. So the sixth ancestor, again, is protecting Huinong. He says, no, no, no, that's no good. That's not good. And then at midnight, he calls Huynong into his room. Oh, no. That night, the Zen master, Hongren, secretly goes to the mill and talks to Huynong. And this is where he has this exchange that is beginning of the chapter. Is the rice white yet? Huynong said, it's white, but it hasn't been sifted. The master strikes the mortar three times. sifts the rice three times and enters the teacher's room. The master tells him, for the sake of the one great matter of the appearance of enlightened knowledge in the world, the Buddhas guide people in accord with their capacities. Eventually, there came to be teachings of the 10 stages of the three vehicles, the sudden and gradual enlightenment and so on.

[47:36]

So all of these things came after the Buddha taught. Moreover, the Buddha transmitted the supreme, extremely subtle, esoteric, real treasury of the eye, of the right teaching, of complete enlightenment, to his senior disciple, Mahagashapa, the elder. This is the transmission of light. This was handed on until it reached Bodhidharma, our first Chinese ancestor, in the 28th generation. He came to China and found the great master Hueca. Bodhidharma passed to Hueca. Then he continued to be transmitted until it came to To me, this is Hongren, the fifth. And now I pass it to you. Sixth, the treasury of the teaching and the robe that has been handed down. Preserve the teaching well and do not let it be cut off. Do not let it be cut off. This is a line that each of us who have ordained, you know, here at Zen Center are promised. We promise this very thing not to let it be cut off.

[48:37]

not to let the transmission of the teaching and of the precepts to die with us. Each of us has actually said, we'll do whatever we can to try and keep it alive, you know, for the next generation. It's interesting. It starts back here, you know, many, many centuries ago. So kneeling, Hway Nung receives the robe and the teaching. And then he says, I have received the teaching. To whom should the robe be given? Hongren says, A long time ago, when Bodhi Dharma came to China, people didn't believe in Zen, so he handed on the robe as an indication of attaining the teaching. Now faith has developed, whereas the robe has become a source of contention. People are fighting over the Dharma transmission. Therefore, let it stop with you. Do not pass it on. Now you should go far, far away and conceal yourself until the appropriate time comes. It is said that the life of a man who has received this robe hangs like a thread. So here's the competition.

[49:38]

This is kind of an interesting thing. I think for all of us who project a kind of tranquil, peaceful, collaborative spirit to human societies, including Zen communities, you'd be amazed. I'm amazed at how subtle and painful this thing called competition or like... Somebody got something that I didn't get. And I got here first. And why did they get a better room? And how come they get, you know, it's kind of endless. And we're all going, wow, you know, but that's the human mind. We tend to notice when our siblings perhaps are getting something that we didn't get. So there's this, this goes way back to this is all the way back into the roots of our way of our practice. So the story goes on, I'm not going to read the rest of it, except the part where Oh, so the master Hongren takes Hway Nong again in the dark. He rescues him from the community and he gets him on a boat and he rows him out across the river.

[50:44]

And he said, you know, you have to go away. He rides him to the other shore and then Hongren goes back to the monastery alone and the community doesn't know that this has happened. So after that, Hongren stops lecturing. He doesn't do any more teaching. And then the students come and ask him, you know, he says, my way has gone. My way has gone. And someone says, well, who's gotten your robe and who's got your teaching? Hongren says the able one. Huynong means able. That's what his name means. The able one, the one who is able in wisdom. So what do they do? They chase him. They go after him. And he, You know, Huynong in the story is kind of a little guy. I mean, he actually ties a stone around his waist when he's pounding the rice because he's so light that he kind of pops up in the air. So he ties his weight around him to hold him down. So he's this little guy.

[51:44]

So he's chased by this general of the army whose name is Huymong. And he chases him all the way up to this place called Daoyu Ridge. And Huynong says to himself, this robe symbolizes faith. Why would I fight over it? So he puts the robe and the bowl on a rock and he hides in the bushes. When Huynong arrives, he tries to pick up the robe and the bowl, but he can't pick them up, even though he tries with all of his strength. And then Huynong trembling says to him, I've come for the teaching, not for this robe. So Huynong comes out from hiding. And he walks over to the boulder and Hui Ming bows to him and says, please reveal the essence of the teaching to me. Hui Nung says, when you don't think of good or evil, what is your original face? When you don't think of good or evil, what is your original face? When you're not involved in dualistic thinking, who are you?

[52:52]

Who are you then? Hui Meng, the general, was greatly enlightened at these words. He then asked, is there any further secret meaning beyond what you have just said? Hui Nong says, what I have told you is not a secret. If you look into your mind, the secret is in you. Hui Meng says, although I was with Hongren at Huangmei, I didn't truly realize my own likeness. Now that I have received your teaching, I am like one who drinks water and knows firsthand whether it is cool or warm. I know for myself whether water is cool or warm. I can now discern truth from false and so on. You are my teacher, Huynong says. If it is as you say, then Hongren is your teacher as well as mine. So Huynong is not, he's going to keep honoring his teacher, Hongren. And he says to this general, he's your teacher too. We're just, we're both disciples of the fifth ancestor.

[53:54]

Okay, Wenung hides in the forest for 10 years among the hunters. And then in the 7th century, he comes to southern China, where he hears this doctrinal master lecturing on the Nirvana Sutra. So doctrinal masters are basically teachers who... who just basically go through the sutras, kind of scholars. They're kind of scholar monks. So this teaching master is talking about the sutra. And Hway Nung stands in the hallway for a while. And there's a strong wind blowing in the temple banner. And he overhears these two monks arguing. See, these are kind of famous. I think some of you have heard these and maybe didn't know where they were coming from. So the strong wind is blowing. He hears these monks arguing. One says that the flag is moving. And the other said, no, no, no, it's the wind that's moving. So they argue back and forth without getting to the truth. So Huynong says, may a layman, a humble layman, interrupt your lofty discussion. It is not the wind or the flag that is moving.

[55:02]

Your minds are moving. So eventually Huynong gets ordained. He becomes an actual ordained person. monk and he tells the story of his childhood all of this which is in the platform sutra and basically in this text says it is now this story is now being recorded and i don't think there's much else here other than the teachings which are are you know all throughout the Platform Sutra. And that's what I'm going to focus on in the next couple of weeks is these amazing teachings which are collected in the Platform Sutra. But you all can finish if you have the Transmission of Life. It's just another page or so with some more details about Hwaynon's story. It's just also, it's also yummy.

[56:06]

I just really enjoy going back over these old old texts and kind of, you know, remembering, reminding myself of the source, you know, where these things have come from. So one thing that you may not know that this text of the Platform Sutra that I recommended to you is a translation that was from a rolled up manuscript that had been hidden in a cave in the 11th century. I think many of you may already know about the Dong Wang Caves or the Magyo Caves that are in the desert, in the Taklamakan Desert, which is like the big Gobi Desert. around Central Asia, there's this huge desert. And the Silk Route went along the edge of the desert. So there were oases. The mountains, the water coming down from the mountains form these little oases. And wherever there was an oasis, there was a little village and a town.

[57:07]

And for many centuries, they were Buddhist refuge places. People would stop along the way. They'd take some refreshment, the camels, the trade routes. It was the most famous trade route for many centuries. And so... Along this trade route, there were these caves that were carved starting about the third century. They were carved into these hillsides, and there are thousands of them. And over many, many centuries, again, they were filled with paintings and artwork and carvings and donors who would... or wishing for safe passage along the silk route, would make donations for a carving or a painting. If any of you have, there's great books and illustrations of some of these. The Getty Museum, a few years back, had an exhibit of some of these texts, like the Diamond Sutra, one of the oldest printed book was found in the Dongwon Caves. And a number of other famous texts and scriptures, along with they did a replica of a couple of the caves.

[58:09]

So several of us went down there to go to this exhibit. And it was absolutely amazing to go into replicas of the cave and see these extraordinarily beautiful paintings, which had been preserved for centuries because they're in caves. And it's very dry. So certainly someplace I'd love to go one of these days is to see some of these. Platform Sutra that Philip Jampalsky has translated is from the Dunmong Caves. It's the oldest existing copy of the Platform Sutra. So what's really interesting, so I have a picture to show you. So the text itself was written in the 9th century, and it was sealed in the cave around the 11th century, and it stayed there until the 20th century. So that's... 800 years, these beautiful things. So along with many other texts and valuables, in the 20th century, these explorers, so there's a wonderful book called Foreign Devils on the Silk Road, Foreign Devils on the Silk Road, which tells the story of these treasure hunters, like R.L.

[59:25]

Stine, Paul Pillow, Otana Koso, they're from all, Sergei Oldenburg. These gentlemen from Europe and Japan and other places went into the desert. This was before airplanes and helicopters. So they went into the desert with camels and on foot. And many of them nearly died. I mean, they were really doing this incredibly. It's like going to Antarctica. They were doing that kind of adventuring, looking for treasure. And so what they found was these caves out in the desert. One of them, and here's a picture I want to share with you. This man who's standing in front of the cave, his name, let me see, his name is Abed Wang Yuan Liu. This picture is from 1900, and he's the person who discovered what's called the Library Cave. Let's see if I can figure out how to share this with you.

[60:26]

I know I better go to my share button. Here we go. So here he is. And this is the front of the cave. There are these wooden structures in front of them. And he appointed himself protector of these caves back in 1900. There was a lot of stealing going on. And certainly these treasure hunters from Europe were actually thieves. They took all this material, tons of it, out of the caves and shipped it to... the British Museum and to Berlin and to Japan. And they basically just took whatever they could load on their animals and made off with it, with these treasures. But this abbot, who actually was willing to host these explorers in return for them giving money to

[61:35]

restore some of the paintwork the artwork he really was very devoted to trying to protect the artwork in these caves so he's quite a wonderful quite a wonderful uh being and he anyway he was sitting in one of the caves smoking a cigarette and the smoke started blowing so like there was some kind of draft and he knocked out a wall and that's where this library was that has yielded these extraordinary texts from before the 11th century, including the one that was translated by Jampalski. So those texts were brought, like the one that Jampalski translated was brought to the British Museum, where it languished for a while. Then they put it on microfilm. So he was able to use the microfilm and to do his translation. And as I said, this was published, this book which is highly respected, was published in 1967. So all of these connections that go back to Kwe Nung and the Platform Sutra.

[62:39]

So maybe that's certainly enough for now. I'm so excited by all this. It just, you know, I know. Anyway, is there something you all would like to, bring up or ask. We can certainly take a few more minutes if you have time or comments or questions. Looks like there's a question from Alicia. Alicia, hi. Hi. Sorry. Okay, I'm unmuted. Hi, Phu, how are you? I'm good, how are you? Good. My question is about the northern and southern schools. Can you talk about what caused the rift and how they ended up back together in the end? They didn't. Oh, they didn't. No, the southern school.

[63:44]

So if you read the beginning of the Platform Sutra, I'll read you the title of the Platform Sutra is very interesting and telling of what happened, of who won. Southern School. So this is the title of the Platform Sutra. Southern School, Sudden Doctrine, Supreme Mahayana, Great Perfection of Wisdom. The Platform Sutra preached by the sixth patriarch, Kuenong, at Tafun Temple and Shao Chao, recorded by the spreader of the Dharma, his disciple, Fahai, who at the same time received the precepts of formlessness. So that's the title of this text. So they're identifying Southern School, the winner, Sudden Doctrine, not gradual, Supreme Mahayana, perfect wisdom, not Yogacara. So in the title, they're basically setting the stage for what school are you in now? You're in the Southern school. So we here are in the Southern school. Okay.

[64:45]

Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of what makes this interesting is because it really was, it's actually not true, but it doesn't matter. The myth is one. The mythology one. Through this sutra, through this platform sutra. I hope you'll check it out because it's really interesting. It's a really good read. Okay, I will. Thank you. Okay, good, good. You're welcome. Weston. Hello. I had two questions. One of them was, there's a lot of, like Zen uses a lot of, they seem to me like, simple metaphors, like the pounding of the rice. And I guess sometimes I'm like, is this been read into too much? Like versus, was he actually just curious, like, hey, is the rice done kind of deal? And I'm wondering if that plays into like, like when you're at, when you're living at Zen Center, and this is kind of like the world that you live in does like,

[65:56]

Sometimes I'm sure you're actually asking someone, hey, are the carrots chopped? And sometimes you're like trying to go in the back door and be like, hey, we're doing dharmakabha. That's right. That's right. And sometimes, yeah, that's right. And there is, that play happens all the time. And it's particularly fun when you're a newer student because you feel very charged up about, you know, using these teachings. I mean, people will come up to me and say the rudest thing like, Are you awake? Excuse me. It's five o'clock in the morning. So there is that play. There is the, you know, and it's you can get embarrassed sometimes. And then if you learn how to hold your own, that's kind of fun. But it's certainly part of the part of the. Yeah, what is it exactly? It's kind of like kids wrestling. It's a little bit of like playful. You know, the way the way puppies wrestle and the way little bears wrestle.

[66:58]

And then at some point, the student and they get bigger, they start trying to wrestle with the teacher. And, you know, sometimes I wrestle with my teacher and sometimes he laughs and sometimes he just looks at me and I'm like, oops, that one didn't work. So, yes, I think you're right. I think it's sometimes it's just is the rice cooked and sometimes. Is the rice cooked? Weston. My second question was how about the relation that the people who are primarily practitioners relate to the people who are practitioner scholars? Like I'm kind of like, I want like the, I'm curious about the lunch table discussions. Are you like, ah, those bookies over there, like they got some stuff, but like, or is it more? what's what's i want the scoop yeah yeah well you know people have different uh proclivities and also i think what's nice is and this is true of the old monasteries as far as i know too they had different types of monks some were scholar monks some were uh work practice monks some were zazen monks all they did was sit and we got those folks too they just want to sit

[68:20]

And, you know, they get really hard to deal with. They don't get to sit enough. So they like sashins. They like practice periods. They really want to be, you know, in the monastic, the core monastic curriculum. And so I think what's nice is that there's something for, there's artists, there's people who really do calligraphy or tea ceremony. So I like the mandala quality of the monastery where you have encouragement. for what kind of person are you? What kind of thing draws your affection, your interest, your willingness to exert yourself fully, you know? And there's some really wonderful workers here ahead of our, you know, Green Gulch is a very hard working place. So folks who farm and garden and they're out there all day long, you know, hauling heavy weights and doing all kinds of stuff. And they really like it. They really like that kind of exertion.

[69:22]

And then we sit together. That sounds awesome. It's awesome. That sounds great. And then when you get old, like me, you get to read books. I did my turn pounding rice. We had to do that for a long time. That also sounds pretty nice. It's pretty nice. It's pretty nice. Thanks for asking. Yeah. Hi, Richard. How are you? You're muted. Hello. Hello, Fu. Not muted anymore. There you are. You're good now, I think. I am so loving being in your class and your teaching is so wonderful and so delightful. And I'm just so grateful to be connecting with the San Francisco Zen Center and your Zoom program. It's just so profoundly, profoundly beneficial and supportive of my practice.

[70:27]

And so amazing. My question is very mundane. It sounds like we're coming to the end of the series of teachings on the transmission of light. And I did purchase the book. And I'm wondering, is there a playlist? somewhere that's just you know i can go to and boom [...] kind of catch up yes well you can just go ahead and read the chapters that preceded we're not near we're not to the end quite yet we have quite a ways to go and then um once we get to um the last of these teachers then we get to look at some of the ones who are not in here and including dogan and Suzuki Roshi. So I have plans. I have plans. I want to take my time eating through all of these wonderful teachers. So not to worry. I love your passion and excitement for it.

[71:29]

It's contagious. Oh, good. Good. Nice to see you smiling. Yes. It's good to be smiling again. Yeah. Smiley. Sun-faced Buddha, moon-faced Buddha. Very much alive and well. Good, good. I'm glad to hear that. Yes, thank you. Satish, there you are. I'm starting to have too many things to read. I have two questions. I'm sorry, go ahead. you there did you freeze i cut the video because i could tell all right so two questions um i'm sorry my my bandwidth is bad so you pretty much cut out i just heard you laugh at the end so i cut my video sorry about that uh the two questions our first one is

[72:40]

I think you've gone away. Oh, no. We've all gone away. Has everyone vanished? I don't know. Are you guys here? Are you still here? Oh, yeah. Okay. Satish. We lost Satish, though. Oh, too bad. We'll give him a second to come back. Anyone else want to do something? Oh, good. Oh, there you go. Satish, are you back? OK, sorry, I dropped out because of internet. Satish? Satish? Yeah, I'm back. OK. Quickly, the question is that the body's dharma tree and wipe your mind like the mirror clear of dust.

[73:54]

How do you do that? Wipe your mind clear of dust? I wish I knew. Yeah. Yeah. I think really my favorite method is just to sit still for long enough that it gets bored with itself. Yeah. You know, all those little acrobats start to kind of just take a rest. Yeah. Yeah. I can see that it has to exhaust itself. It does. It does. If not, it'll keep going back to it. Yeah. The second question I had is, how does spiritual bypassing look like? Well, it probably doesn't look like spiritual bypassing. You know, you probably think you're right on target. But I think it shows up with other people who know you and love you well. And they're going like, oh, you're really skipping over some really important emotional connections that you're not sharing with us.

[74:57]

And we don't buy it. You know, we love you so much. We're not going to let you do this. So usually it's your friends who will say to you, come back. Come back from that wiped mind. You can't really learn anything when your mind is wiped. It's not a learning mode. It's a rest mode. Samadhi is a rest mode. It's the insight. Vipassana comes from reengaging with your intellect, from a calmed mind. So shamatha vipassana, first calm and then insight. So you come back. You don't drive your car when you're in samadhi. Very bad idea. How does Vipassana meditation? I know Zazen, but I don't know much about Vipassana meditation. I don't either. So, you know, we're going to do this workshop for the next three weeks.

[76:01]

So come in, plug in if you can. There's going to be some talks by Gil Fronsdale, who's a Vipassana teacher, and Paul Haller, both of whom did quite a bit of practice in Southeast Asia as monks and who will tell us about it. I'm really looking forward to it. So I'm representing the Zen guys, and they're representing the Vipassana. So I'm really planning to learn a lot about the technique, having not done a Vipassana retreat myself. All right. I'll try to do that. I think I passed the deadline. I'll try to do that. Oh, okay. Well, there's some public lectures Wednesday nights, and on Saturday, there will be a public lecture at the City Center, so you can come to those. Thanks, Phu. You're welcome. Nice to see you again. Laura. Okay.

[77:10]

There you are. There you are. My first time. The part about... The fifth ancestor speaking to the sixth ancestor and asking him about the rice, that kind of stuck in my mind. Yeah. Because he asked a question like, is it finished? Is it white? Is it, you know, done, pure, whatever, something. That's what I heard. Yeah. And then he answers, but it's not like he said, yeah, it's done. And then the guy says, oh, come to my office, I'll promote you. No. He says, no, it's not done. Right. And then the guy says, come to my office. And I was like, oh, what was that? How did that happen? In other words, you see what I'm saying? Or I thought maybe I remembered it wrong. I don't know. No, no, you remember it right. He said he was clear. Moining was clear. He had profound insight when he heard the Diamond Sutra, a mind of no abode. He realized his mind had no abode.

[78:13]

His mind didn't abide anywhere. A mind of no abode. So Hoi Nung had that realization. In some ways, it probably benefited him not to be literate. He didn't have all those, you know, scriptures running around in his head. He just chopped a lot of wood. And so he was very much probably fairly a man in nature, a man who was physically aware. So he had some startling realization, but he knew he wasn't done. He had more work to do. It was dangerous for Huinong at the monastery. So he gave him the certificate of transmission. You are an enlightened being, and you better run. You better get out of here. So he had to go off and do his own finishes. He did 10 years in the woods. He started to go to lectures. He began to talk to other teachers. He got ordained. And then he began to meet with students.

[79:15]

So that's the gradual part. You know, it's not an enlightenment, but the sifting. You know, first you have enlightenment. You go to that side so you know that it's there. You come back to this side to practice. Right. They both knew he wasn't done. He wasn't done. They both knew it. But the situation in the monastery was so precarious. That's right. That he had to. Basically shelter him and get him out of there so he could then ripen on his own in his own time. That's right. Without the teacher to help him. That's right. So then he had to get help from his students. So the students helped finish him. Right. By their questions, by inquiry, inquiry and response come up together. So that the joining of the of the teacher and the student together is the enlightened. response. It's not one or another. Your connection is or mine is challenging.

[80:31]

It's hard not to blame people when their connections are something wrong with your connection. It may be me. Can you hear me now? Yeah, go ahead. Oh, it's probably me. Can you hear me okay now or no? Okay, so... Well, when I was trying... He got his person right away as soon as he was escaping. Oh, Laura. I can tell you what that sounds like. He was trying to kill him. No? No, you can't hear me. Okay. Oh, try it now. Try it with your video off. Here, let's do this. Let's try this. Okay. Try this. Can you hear me now? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, so what I heard you say is, no, he knew he wasn't completely ripened. That was the question about the rice. The teacher knew it. Everybody knew it, but he couldn't stay put because of the situation being as precarious. So he had to leave.

[81:33]

And then, and then, like you say, his students ripened him. And the time ripened him and so on. But in a way, on his way out, he found his first student or his first student found him, the guy that was trying to catch him and kill him. That's right. So already his, what is it, his training to be able to answer that question in the affirmative, not the negative, was already starting to happen. Yes, that's right. And every recorded conversation with Wainong is like that. is a teaching. Now, let's not forget, he is a literary event. He was a product of very well. Right. The fact that he doesn't exist is another little piece to the story. Yeah. It's so tempting to make him real. I make him real all the time. And then I realize, oh, yeah, that's right. He's the character in a novel. Well, and actually you said the real sixth one was the guy who lost the contest.

[82:37]

Yeah. That's very funny. Yeah. I like to think kindly on him. Yeah. Thank you, though. Thank you very much. I'll make myself come back just a moment. All right. There we go. Thank you. You're welcome. So thank you, Laura, for being your patience. Well, thank you, everyone. Stay tuned. Platform Sutra coming up. It's great. I hope you can. catch a copy and enjoy it. I think it's a wonderful text and it will give you a tremendous amount of Zen teaching. It really is for that purpose. It's kind of the gathering of the Mahayana Southern School, Southern School, sudden enlightenment teaching. So thank you all so much. If you would like to unmute and say goodbye, you're very welcome to do that. Bye everyone. Thank you. Stay well.

[83:39]

Thank you. Be well. Wipe your mirrors. Thank you very much. Okay. You all take care. Good night. May all beings benefit. Thank you. Thank you, Richard. Very kind of you. Good night. See you next week. See you on Wednesday and Saturday too. Oh, great. You guys are gluttons. We couldn't sign up for the whole program, but that sounds great. Oh, I think it'll be, I think it'll be really enjoyed. I'm looking forward to those two guys. They're very interesting and very funny. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. You're welcome. Good night. Good night. Thank you so much. I just have a quick question. Sure. Where are you? I'm Diana. Oh, hi, Diana. This is my first time in this workshop. And I was wondering what bookie we're looking over earlier.

[84:41]

Well, there's two of them that we're looking at right now. And actually, I'll tell you about three. If you like books and want to come, you know, get... catch up there's no such thing but because you're not behind but the one i was talking about that i'm going to be looking at in the next few weeks is the platform sutra oh okay thank you so much that's philip yampalski and then the other one that is really really really good is where did i do it then oh the one that we've been is our through line that we've been using for many many months is this this one transmission of light oh okay okay thank you so much you're so welcome I hope we'll see you again. Have a good day. You too. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thank you for hanging in there. Good night.

[85:38]

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