I vow to taste the truth of God's authoritative word. Good morning. Is this supposed to touch my chin? I want to talk today about the same story that Nea told and talked about some... seems like a long time ago. It's the story of Tetsugikai. Reb talked about it in the Dharma Transmission class when I was doing my Dharma Transmission ceremony. And I suppose there's some wondering on my part.

[01:06]

Was either he or the universe trying to give me some teaching? And I've been since then trying to understand this story and working on it. And it has some difficult parts. And then adding to the kind of extra interest in it, Reb wrote on both mine and Nea's raksu, I believe, Grandmotherly Mind, which is part of this story. So, let me refresh your memory. When Dogen was at least beginning Eheiji in Japan, and before that too, there was another school of Buddhism that was fairly popular in Japan called the Darumashu. And one of the main teachings of this school was that everything that you do, or everything is Buddhism. That's actually a fine teaching, one that we've heard ourselves.

[02:09]

But they took it, or some of them at least, took it to an extreme, where basically anything they did was Buddhism and was okay, and they did some pretty nice things. And the other Buddhist schools didn't like it, and neither did the government. And this Darumashu got into a lot of trouble, and they were kind of... Maybe even the government said they couldn't exist, I'm not sure. But anyway, there was a lot of upheaval about them. And one of the main teachers in that school... Do you, Nea, do you remember his name? Tetsukikai's teacher's name? You sure? Wasn't he earlier? He wasn't the one who came to study with Dogen, though, was he? Anyway, Dainichi Nonan was a very famous teacher in the school,

[03:15]

but I think there was another one who came, actually brought his students and came to be Dogen's student at Eheiji. The feeling that I got is that he kind of wanted to shape up his school. He thought there was good potential here, but it needed something that maybe could be added to it in this monastic practice that Dogen was beginning at Eheiji. So he came and actually became Dogen's student and brought several of his main students with him. One of those was Dogen's main Dharma heir, Koen Eijo, the next name that we chant after Dogen's in the lineage chart. And another was Tetsukikai. So this man, whose name I can't remember, really wanted to receive Dharma transmission from Dogen, but he didn't. He died too soon. And he said to his disciples, especially these two, Koen Eijo and Tetsukikai,

[04:15]

I'm sure that you can receive Dharma transmission from Dogen Zenji. And I believe he gave, at least Tetsukikai, he also gave him his Dharma transmission. So he was very favorable towards Dogen's teaching, really encouraging his disciples to take it up. Tetsukikai came when he was just 22 years old. He moved to Eheiji at that point. So he had already been practicing for a while, came to Eheiji, and within two years he was the Tenzo, which, as you may know, Dogen thought was a really important position, somewhat the heart of the monastery. How the kitchen was run, how the food was prepared, how the monks were nurtured, and how everything, every little detail in the kitchen was done was very important to Dogen. Within two years he made this young monk, Tetsukikai, the head of the kitchen. And I think that says something about how dedicated Tetsukikai was,

[05:22]

what a talented young person he was, but also how dedicated to practice Dogen would put him in charge of the kitchen. So at 24 he was in charge of Eheiji's kitchen and did it quite well from here, mostly from him, but we hear that. And ten years later, when he was 34, Dogen was dying. So he'd spend all this time with Dogen and he had really hoped to receive Dharma transmission from Dogen, as his teacher had encouraged him to. He had studied very hard and Dogen was quite sick and decided that he needed to go from Eheiji back to Kyoto to try to get some medical care. And he called Tetsukikai to him and said, I really need you to stay here and take care of Eheiji. According to Tetsukikai, you're the only one who can do it.

[06:25]

And in fact, he took Koen Eijo with him to Kyoto and he left Tetsukikai in charge of the monastery. And before he went, he said to him, I would really like to give you Dharma transmission, I would really like to give you my Dharma, but you're not quite ready yet. If I could get back from Kyoto alive, I'm sure that at that point we'll be able to meet in this way. But in the meantime, he said the same thing that he had said to him twice before, which is that you need to develop a more grandmotherly mind. And Tetsukikai says, it's so touching to me, something about this is very touching. Tetsukikai says, he wrote about this later. So he wrote all this down. And in his writing, he said,

[07:28]

I will not forget these admonitions, even though I do not yet know their cause. Interesting, huh? Doesn't it just kind of... He's trying so hard, and three times during his studying with Dogen, Dogen says to him, you have to develop more grandmotherly mind. And he's, you know, working away, really taking good care of the monastery, and you have to develop more grandmotherly mind. And he says, I will not forget these admonitions, even though I do not yet know their cause. I could just cry. Anyway, Dogen then left for Kyoto, and in fact died while he was there. And Tetsukikai continued on at Eheji. And sometime later, I don't actually... Not so much later, but I'm not sure how long, I believe about a year later, he was having a conversation with Koen Eijo,

[08:30]

who eventually did give him Dharma transmission in Dogen's lineage. And he said to Koen Eijo, this past year or so, I have been reflecting on the lectures I heard given by our former teacher. Even though I heard all of them from our teacher Dogen, now they are different in meaning than at first. This difference concerns the assertion that the Buddhism transmitted by our teacher is the correct performance of one's present monastic tasks. Even though I had heard that Buddhist ritual is Buddhism, in my heart, I privately felt that true Buddhism must reside apart from this. Recently, however, I have changed my views. I now know that monastic ritual and deportment themselves are that true Buddhism.

[09:32]

Are you getting worried? I am. Even if apart from these, there also is the infinite Buddhism of the Buddhas and Patriarchs, still, it all is the very same Buddhism. I have attained true confidence in this profound principle, that apart from the lifting of an arm or the moving of a leg within one's Buddhist deportment, there can be no other reality. You can see there are some problems here. I think. I think there are problems here. One problem is, you know, to say that true Buddhism, the Buddhist ritual and monastic ritual and deportment is true Buddhism is a little bit of... could be a little bit of a problem for us.

[10:33]

We're... Even though here we are right now in the monastery where we can practice monastic deportment and ritual, all of us, almost all of us, maybe all of us at Tassajara and at Zen Center are... have our... call it wisdom, lay lives. We have our non-monastic lives, our non-monastic concerns that we may be able to put aside for a little while when we come to Tassajara. Maybe. But they're still knocking on our door and they're important to us. I think we're not ready or, I don't know, ready. We're not interested in giving that up completely. In fact, I think most of us think of that as a major part of our practice. Our children, our parents,

[11:35]

our spouses, our professions, various things, our art, things that we are interested in that we've made some space from in order to be here, but that we really, with our hearts, want to be part of our practice. We don't want to say Buddhist practice is just monastic ritual and deportment. I don't want to say that. I don't think most of you want to say that. So, what is Tetsugikai talking about that he says he finally, deeply understood from Dogen's lectures? So, I think these two things, grandmotherly mind and this true Buddhism being the moving of a leg or the raising of an arm within our Buddhist deportment are connected.

[12:37]

I don't think they're exactly the same thing, but I think they're closely connected. So, what I'm going to go on and say now, I just want to make a little disclaimer here. So, I've been thinking about this and reading it over and over and working on it and I'm going to tell you what I think now. But I want you to know this is what I think now and what I think might change and what you think might be different and what Tetsugikai or Rab or Buddha or whoever might think might be different. So, please take what you can from this and work with it as you will. I think that so, I said they're slightly different, they're dependent on each other, I believe, that they're finding this true reality which

[13:39]

maybe can only be found in monastic deportment. It's necessary to do that before we can develop more grandmotherly mind. So, let me read this one more time. This past year or so, I've been reflecting on the lectures I heard given by our former teacher. Even though I heard all of them from our teacher Dogen, now they are different in meaning than at first. This difference concerns the assertion that the Buddhism transmitted by our teacher is the correct performance of one's present monastic tasks. Even though I had heard that Buddhist ritual is Buddhism, in my heart, I privately felt that true Buddhism must reside apart from this. Recently, however, I have changed my views.

[14:42]

I now know that monastic ritual and deportment themselves are the true Buddhism. Even if apart from these there also is the infinite Buddhism of the Buddhas and Patriarchs, still, it all is the very same Buddhism. I have attained true confidence in this profound principle that apart from the lifting of an arm or the moving of a leg within one's Buddhist deportment, there can be no other reality. Where is this? In my heart. Where does it say? In my heart, I privately felt that true Buddhism must reside apart from this. That also rings a bell for me and touches my heart. In a way, for me, I have to confess that it isn't only in my heart I have privately felt

[15:45]

that true Buddhism must reside apart from this. In my heart, I have privately felt that something, true Buddhism or not, must be out there somewhere if I could just find it. There must be something that could help me, that could make my life right, that could make my life meaningful, that could make my life the way it's supposed to be, that could make me happy. In my heart, I have privately felt that out there somewhere must reside the truth, the help, the refuge. And maybe it's Buddhism. I hope it's Buddhism. Sometimes I believe it's Buddhism in my heart privately. But nonetheless, it's out there somewhere, just out of reach often. And I think this is the misconception that Tetsugikai is talking about.

[16:46]

And the fact that Dogen was working with these young people, young men, in a monastic setting, he talked this way. He talked Buddhist ritual and Buddhist monastic department is where truth can be found, is where the true way can be found. And I think this is true for us also. But that it's true wherever you are. It's just that in a monastery, which we have the great good fortune to be in, it's easier, it's more supported to look there, to actually settle down and look in the place where we are instead of apart from here. There must be some help. But to look actually here and in a monastery, it's simplified

[17:51]

and the places that you can look are well defined. It's like we can look when we get up in the morning, we don't have to get all distracted by what are we going to wear. We don't have to think about that. Well, maybe a little bit. You know, how many layers. Will the heat be on this morning or not? But basically, it's pretty well defined. We don't have to think about that too much. And we don't have to think about what impression it's going to make, what we're going to wear. Now, today I have an important meeting, should I wear... Even if we have an important meeting, it doesn't matter what we wear. But especially, first thing in the morning, it's all laid out for us. The monastic department tells us what to wear in the morning. So we can, instead of thinking about the meaning of this and whether I'm going to find some refuge in what I wear, whether I'm going to be protected by what I wear, whether I'm going to make the right impression,

[18:54]

etc., etc., we can pay attention to tying the knot. My first practice period, I paid a lot of attention to tying the knot. Somehow it... I don't know. Now that I look back on it, it was wonderful, actually. I recommend it as a practice. Pay, actually, attention to tying the ties or tying your belt as a way to come here. And then we can pay attention to walking from... We can pay attention to other things before that brushing our teeth. It's endless. The tiny, tiny present, the very, very exact present that we could settle into, that we can settle into if we can not be distracted by that urge we have,

[19:56]

which I think often comes down to either avoidance or trying to make things right, trying to figure out, well, where should I be going for my interim vacation? We could spend a lot of time on that. How am I going to get there? What am I going to do when I'm there? But if we could leave that and just come back to our present monastic department and actually find is true Buddhism or Reb agreed to... I don't know. I think he really felt this. I heard him change it in our class. We kind of said, Buddhism? We don't want to be dedicated to Buddhism, any ism. So he changed it to the Buddha way. And then later I heard in a lecture he changed it to the Buddha way. And to me that feels more right. Like Buddhism. Okay, I'm grateful to Buddhism,

[20:57]

but in terms of dedicated to... So if we can find the Buddha way in walking from our cabin to the zendo and bowing to our cushion and eating our cereal and many, many, many small things which are laid out for us in a quite simple way if we can settle in there... Now, what does this mean? To find the true Buddha way there. I think this is a good question. If we can find the true Buddha way exactly, exactly where we are then I don't think it will be any problem to find that Buddha way when we're not in the monastery or when monastic department does not exactly describe

[22:00]

what we're supposed to be doing like if we're having tea with a friend. I think if we can find it in these small, very prescribed actions we might have the possibility of finding it in everything that we do. You know, Dogen talks about it also in the Genjo Koan that we chant sometimes when he talks about the bird and the fish. A fish swims in the ocean and there's no end to the water. A bird flies in the ocean and there's no end to the air. The fish and the bird have never left their element. If the bird leaves the air

[23:03]

it will die at once. If the fish leaves the water it will die at once. If a bird or a fish tries to reach the end of its element it will not find its way or its place. When you find your place where you are practice occurs actualizing the fundamental point. When you find your way at this moment practice occurs actualizing the fundamental point. Here's the place. Here the way unfolds. Doing one practice is practicing completely. Here's the place. Here the way unfolds. Whatever we're doing is just in this monastic setting and especially in Sechine of course it gets even simpler with less encouragement to leave this place. You know, when Darlene gave her

[24:14]

after dormant transmission talk she said that remark about being a giant truffle and then she said I heard, I wasn't here and then I heard that she mentioned this quote from the Genjokan and said that the human element you know, we have to stay within our element. If we don't stay within our element we will die and we won't find our way and our place and that the human element is greed, hate and delusion. I think she said that which was interesting to me. I think, actually I think the human element is is not just greed, hate and delusion. It's more like the human element is all whatever senses we have. The human element is what we see, what we smell what we taste, what we hear what we feel. It's a big one, what we feel and then we permeate it with greed, hate and delusion

[25:16]

and the greed, hate and delusion are important parts of it to settle with to come to that place that part of our element that we add to our experience. We add our greed, we add our hate our aversion, we add our delusion and we do need to find ourselves there. And this monastic department helps us to do that by joining it in a very full way to really notice when we are leaping off from it and looking for refuge or help or relief or diversion somewhere else and to try to come back to this monastic department and ritual.

[26:18]

I just want to look at the quote again and see if there's anything more that I wanted to say about it before I go back to Grandmotherly Mind. Even if apart from these there is also the infinite Buddhism of the Buddhism patriarchs still, it all is the very same Buddhism. I have attained true confidence in this profound principle that apart from the lifting of an arm or the moving of a leg within one's Buddhist department there can be no other reality. Well, maybe the thing about this that most calls my attention is this thing, there can be no other reality. It's interesting. It's not there can be no other Buddhism or there can be no other practice. It's there can be no other reality which I think is true.

[27:22]

We so fool ourselves into thinking that there is this other reality that we believe in our heart is really there and could help us. But it's not only useless to think about it it isn't even actually there. There isn't any other reality but this one that we can experience directly. We can think about it but we are imagining if we're thinking about what I'm going to do over the break it's not there. We're imagining it. It feels so real to us like what I should do at lunch today or I should call here and I should, I don't know what clean my orioke, whatever. It feels so real. We have such a developed sense of imagination. But actually there is no other reality. There is only this lifting an arm. Now he says lifting an arm within one's Buddhist department. I don't know about that.

[28:22]

You'll have to explore that yourself. I think that is the reality that's freeing to lift our arm somehow as the Buddha way to lift it now what does this mean as the Buddha way? I would think that that means as a way to be free and in a freedom that includes all beings. So lifting my arm in a way that is free and that includes the freedom of all beings. To do all of our actions in that way and I think if we the closer we come to our actions the easier that is to do actually. The easier it is I mean lifting my arm in a free way is not a problem. It's not. If somebody were holding my arm down then it would not be lifting my arm it would be maybe resisting the person in a free way

[29:23]

or giving in in a free way. So the closer if we're really settled on our exact experience this freedom gets much more apparent. We don't have to make it up. It's that little bit of distance that makes for the lack of freedom. So if we're feeling cold if we're sitting there feeling like I hate this I hate this I want to I'm going to I don't know what go to the dining room where it's warm something run up the hill get to the sunshine and finally get out of this deep valley if we're thinking that way then we're not very free. But if we come back and actually stay with the cold you know the good thing about Sashin we really most of us discover some of this the actual physical how this works sometime during Sashin during some Sashin it may be hard

[30:24]

to keep clear and remember but most of us that had some experience during Sashin of having pain and hating it and trying to get away from it and you know doing various things to get away from it and eventually not being able to get away from it and somehow by some grace settling into it and finding that it's different. At that point it's different. That it's not it isn't like it isn't pain or like it isn't cold but that there is freedom there when we really join and allow that sensation to be there. You know it may not be pleasant it may actually be a little pleasant at that point. And as I tell you it's not I don't spend much time there but I've had that experience and I think most of you have so if we can try to be in that place

[31:25]

you know try to be there where the freedom is actually part of the the phenomena where the freedom is part of the cold and the hair's breadth deviation we hate it. The hair's breadth deviation we really want something else. But right there there is freedom. So Grandmotherly Mind Dogen says in the Tenzo Kiyokan somewhere here Be as mindful of the three treasures as a parent or grandparent would be mindful of an only child. To take so according to Botterford who writes this who writes about Tetsugikai

[32:25]

this is Grandmotherly Mindfulness entails not just a kind concern for others but also a single minded devotion. So to take not just being kind but actually taking care of taking care of in this way of that maybe we can only do when we are right there when we are completely present with it. Because if we have any distance from it then we have some idea about what taking care of is. Then we think oh it would be good if that person did this. Or it would be good if it were warmer in here. Or it would we have some idea that gets into our taking care of and our kindness. But if we are right there so that's why I say it's dependent on this doing each action as the Buddha's way doing each action completely as if this were

[33:27]

the only reality. From there then this grandmotherly mind grandparently mind that that can take care of in the exactly appropriate way which by the way may include things that we would normally call mistakes. It's it's you know when as I think all of you know you know we don't really know what the impact of what we do is. So we might do something that we feel like oh I wish I wouldn't have done that I'm so sorry I hurt that person. And then we don't know what impact that has in their life or what impact it has in our life even. But to be right in that space where we are completely engaging with the present as the only reality from there there is this possibility of loving kindness

[34:28]

and responsibility and care for that I am currently believing is grandmotherly or grandparently mind. You may have some other ideas that's fine. So I'm you know as I'm studying this I'm realizing how much I was going to say room for effort there is or how much time I do not spend in this place and yet how available it is how when when I can drop in for a moment it's there namely the present is there

[35:29]

when I can drop in there it is there's my life there's reality there's you know it's very very full I mean if I start looking around to sort of check and see if all the parts of my life are here I get kind of distracted but if I'm just here for what has appeared at this moment it's like it's completely full it's full out to the edges there isn't room for anything else more so but I've been noticing how much I'm not there but again how you know to just keep coming back whenever I notice just keep coming back and the present is here and to meet my element then you know meet find out is there greed hate or delusion there what impact is it having what is what's happening in this very alive very full present moment anyway

[36:31]

so that's what I've been thinking about see what time it is do you have anything that you'd like to say which is difference between grandmotherly mind and motherly mind well you know it's kind of made up right like even the term grandmotherly mind is made up it's not like every grandmother has the kind of grandmotherly mind that Dougan was talking about so what are you talking about are you talking about real mothers and real grandmothers yes a little more

[37:41]

passion and objectivity but maybe maybe a wider knowledge having seen your child go through various stages and and freaking out as they go through those stages thinking this is not ok it is not ok that my dear little baby who always used to come home exactly when I told her is now staying out not telling me even where she is it's not ok it's not safe it's obviously not safe

[38:42]

you know and etc. etc. you know going through that and living through it if you live through it and and seeing that actually they have to they have to push the boundaries they have to if it were left up to the mother the you know they would never grow you know they would never take a step they wouldn't maybe they would but not anyway they wouldn't do it in the way that they are going to do it so as you see them do it and as you you know take a deep breath and hold back your panic a little bit you see oh this is the unique beautiful way this child is doing it and if you have two children you see oh and it's different than the unique beautiful way this child is doing it maybe you see that if you are lucky as a mother if your panic doesn't get too high you know so if you you know after you've done that over and over and over and over again as they you know get from 2 to 6 to 14 to 24 30

[39:43]

who knows you know you learn oh maybe this is the way that babies grow you know that children grow that adults grow maybe they you know they take dangerous steps and they have so then when your grandmother having been through that you don't the panic doesn't have to happen as much so I don't but I don't know if it's any more objective exactly you know you're still you know sort of right your attention is right on this person maybe not you know you don't get to see it as much or something but it's just that you have a wider breadth of what's okay maybe maybe I think it's a better chance for emptiness back into emptiness like this guy was very young he had one stroke and his name grandmother wait until you get older it was too involved about career with now this this yeah maybe

[40:43]

well they this statement that I read of his where he says you know about Buddhist deportment and now I have become thoroughly convinced that lifting an arm or moving a leg within Buddhist deportment is the true reality he made that statement that was kind of part of Koen Ejo deciding that yes it's time for you to have Dharma transmission so it's I think it was very connected to this kind of settling into the present and how much it had to do with the fact that now he was 35 or 36 instead of 34 I don't know but maybe those were crucial years yeah uh oh too many Peter I must have said something yeah

[41:47]

oh uh right well let's see thank you for asking that when when I said it I what I was talking about at that point was was my what it looks to me like is actually my averting I know this in my heart you know it's a a beautiful phrase I mean that really beautiful phrase and in okay so when I said that you know in my heart I actually want something or other that kind of in my heart that I was talking about right then I think in looking at it is actually not what I really want deep in my heart but there may be things

[43:07]

that in our heart we want you know that we that are in the way that you're talking about it where and I think we have to examine we have to examine if our if we keep longing for something that isn't here should we be doing something about that I think yeah and and you know how exactly we tell I don't know but to come close to that longing is one way you know that's more like what I was talking about come close to the longing don't just keep imagining it playing with it in our mind which is totally made up and not doing any good but to actually come close to the longing and then see oh is this something actually I should try to actualize in some way and then see what happens of course does that make sense Greg yeah yeah yeah

[44:38]

yeah yeah and sometimes intention is optional it happens whether you know going yeah it seems like these are the people who protect us right but how when when it seems like sometimes we really must protect sometimes intention yeah yeah

[45:43]

yeah when our intention is available to us

[48:15]

try to join it but, you know, it's not it's not about thinking it's about living Carol Well, not exactly, but go on Yes, I don't know enough about the Daruma Shu to really talk about it but as I understand it, their mistake was to think that whatever you did didn't matter it's not just that whatever presents itself you have to practice with but then whatever you did with it, it didn't matter you could like beat it up or rape it or anything you wanted and it was still Buddhism that some of the Daruma Shu monks actually did those kind of things

[49:17]

Yeah Tonya Yeah Mm-hmm Right Mm-hmm That's a good point

[50:31]

Right Right This might be the makings of another talk Yeah, it's a good question how much do we have to how much if I can say it this way if we are exact if we are really present with something and open to it so maybe the right attitude maybe right attitude, openness to it will its truth or emptiness or the way to be free with it reveal itself or do we have to come in with the right understanding? Departments, right Right But that, I think this Buddhist department is like, you know, monastic

[51:36]

you know, Japanese monastic it doesn't tell you why or what it says do it like this hold your hands like this hold your feet like this hold, you know So, I don't know It's a good question Yeah Shannon I just want to clarify what you just taught basically, you don't have to and your your talk I just gave you a question about the bread teaching about the teaching and I wonder if it's the same for you in there if you're understanding Thank you If you're being upright one of the ways the way it translates one of the things you're teaching is I don't remember whether it's being good or avoiding people but it translates as upholding forms and ceremonies Avoiding evil

[52:37]

People Avoiding evil and I was really kind of perplexed by that because as I was Right attachment to forms and ceremonies was a concept so so it seems to me I have this hunch that what you're talking about this morning has some bearing on you teaching and I'm not quite sure if it's the same I'm wondering how do you understand that the teaching that upholding forms and ceremonies is avoiding evil and I'm not sure how do you understand I'm just wondering about what that means so anyway that's kind of my bloody question Yeah, well I think it's for me it becomes apparent in doing them like in like in doing you know, our orioke meals you know, to to actually do orioke you know, do the various parts of it

[53:39]

if you're you know, if you're laying everything out very carefully and all that and then you notice that you're angry because the server has I don't know what touched your bowl in the wrong way or something you know it's like it's obvious, right? this is this is attachment this is tightening there's something doesn't feel right here now we could get distracted by the forms and ceremonies and say well, they shouldn't have done the blah-di-blah but if we're actually just there doing it I think we notice whoa I'm unhappy now laughter what are my options? I think it's so great that my favorite part of orioke is the beginning of the chant just before we eat you know, what is it? how we reflect on the effort that brought us this food and consider how it comes to us we reflect on our virtue

[54:41]

and practice whether we were worthy of this offering it's just like every time it's like, okay laughter whatever I've gotten upset about about how they did it or what it was or you know it all just like you know did I deserve this? think of the effort that went into this did I deserve this? it's so it's kind of you know the form and ceremony kind of helps you and to me that's like a symbol of how the the it seems to me like this life here at Tassajara is so well-constructed over I mean it must have developed over thousands of years the way the different parts go together to help us get caught and get free get caught and get free get caught and get free you know we have to sit right next to somebody right next to them you have to sit so close and then you know you have to sit there and sit [...] you get caught you get free and the whole

[55:42]

you know lots of it it goes on and on how the different you know I don't think anyone really thought it up but somehow it developed in this way so I don't know if that exactly answers your question but I think that we have to go on because very soon we have to stop thank you can you hear him? I can do it I find that something that might be for grandmothers that might arise you know when somebody asks me for something but I don't know that I can make that happen the way that I do it I don't know how to cultivate it I think the best way

[56:43]

to cultivate it is to notice what what happens when that doesn't happen I mean to notice what happens when that does happen but also to notice very closely what happens when that doesn't happen what happens when somebody asks for something and you say no or you want to say no or you know to actually notice to be very present with that and then from that I think will come more grandmotherly mind it will be again it will be the same thing I don't feel good now well what would help me feel better maybe I think if I could just get them out of the kitchen I'd feel better let's try that get out [...] do I feel better probably not so we so we just stay close stay there okay now what's happening now and I think anyway we should

[57:44]

stop I think maybe one more okay all right good you'll tell me when to stop okay be true Sarah no I [...] But I think the fundamental idea of it is that I have seen that the first thing is practice.

[58:52]

So when you said that you made that thing yourself, I don't know what it was. But I think the idea is that you just want to know enough that you do it. And then you can cultivate that. And that's the idea for me. And that's the idea too. There's just a lot of confidence always in a young man. You didn't just learn this stuff. You just did it. I'll forget it. I mean, I don't know. But yeah, that's the real debate. Yeah, you're doing good. And now you have to do better. And I just find that really important. Yeah, if you can't even be nice, please practice. Well, but the assumption that I can be nice to you is that I can't. It will stop. It just won't stop. And it's not useful. It's something like that. Yeah, it's not just nice.

[60:00]

Anybody over there? I keep looking over here. Yeah. [...] Okay. Okay. Okay.

[61:06]

Okay. Okay. I wasn't at the last lecture, but I have some thoughts based on what you just said. I think it's the reason those two, why they both might be called in my heart, that Peter and I were talking about, is because they have to do with our, for me, it has to do with my, I think for us it has to do with our deep need for something, you could call it various things, for meaning or safety or life, our deep need for vitality or our deep need to live, even including death.

[63:29]

So we proceed to look for our deep need, for an answer to our deep need in all these kind of outside passions. And my heart longs for someone to love me or ice cream. My heart longs for various things. But it really comes back to this, I'm trying to live a human life and it's a scary thing. And I don't know what, I need to do it. I really need to do it. And through practice we can discover that the way to do it is to do it. And then the kind of passion can come home and it can include those other things to some extent, but not in the same kind of going out and trying to get them kind of way. But it can include them here.

[64:31]

Is that, Melissa? Time's up. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

[64:40]

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