This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. So this is our first class, this practice period, and Sojin and I Look through the calendar. We plotted out, I think, eight classes and then a ninth wrap-up class just before we close the practice period. So basically eight classes where we'll be making the presentations. And I think Sojin will be here for, or we'll both be here for half of those. And the other half, Sojin will be away. So the times, we're both here. He'll be taking the lead.

[01:01]

Today is like that. We have something to clarify, I think, with books. We received a donation of books from Shasta Abbey of the Hubert Nierman translation that was done at Shasta Abbey. We have 33 of those. So we'd like to have three of those go to the library, and then they'll be on reserve here. And then the other 30 we could distribute. Is that right? We have 36, so we have 33. So first of all, I thought many people have their own copies already of Denko Roku in one translation or another. But I'm wondering if people, are there people here who have No translation at all. So why don't we, one, two, three, four, five, rather than counting, why don't we just pass out the books?

[02:05]

Do we have them here? We just pass them out right now to the people who have, we'll see how far they go and then we'll see if there's anyone left or we have books left. There are also some books, some more copies of the Francis Cook translation and the... Tom Cleary translation, I think, that are available for purchase. And maybe some more that are on order, right? Cooks available, and do we know how much that costs? $10. $10? What a deal. Yes? My understanding is that the Shasta It would be good to make a donation back to Shasta Abbey.

[03:08]

Let's put an envelope someplace and people can put money into or checks to Shasta Abbey. Linda? as treasurer and assistants could also take care of that. Okay? You can just come by the treasurer's office. Questions? Do you guys have a favorite translation? I'm just curious. Well, we'll talk about that. Okay. Do we need both translations or not? We'll talk about that. Why don't you wait for your questions until we... How are we doing with this distribution here? Here's someone with a hand up. Looks like there's another hand over here.

[04:10]

So it looks like So everyone has at least one book, one translation. That worked out quite nicely, actually. I also was just reminded that in return with Shasta Abbey, I sent Shasta Abbey a box of books San Francisco Zen Center, and I sent Darlene Cohen's book, the one not busy, because I have about, I don't know, 600 copies left or something. Anybody want to have? More than that, I think. Because they were going to, after she died, the publisher was going to just turn them into pulp.

[05:17]

So I thought, well, I'll take them and... So in the city, my closets are all full of boxes. So I think I'll bring a box down here, and so people here can also just have a copy of that. And for that, then we're sending donations to Russian River Zendo, which was a Zendo that she founded, along with Tony's spatula. So with that, let me turn it over to Sojin, who's going to begin today right in the middle. Yes. So, you know, there are 52, I think, fascicles here. And deciding which ones to use, given that we're going to do eight, was very heart-rending. I just wanted to go through, you know, basically it's from Shakyamuni to...

[06:21]

Ko'un Ejo. All of the ancestors where Kezan makes a koan out of the transmission stories of the 52 ancestors up to Ko'un Ejo. And it starts with Shaakimuni and if you follow them in order it makes the stories reveal a certain various lines of what transmission in our lineage is about. So they're the Indian ancestors, the Chinese ancestors, and the Japanese ancestors up to Ko'un-eijo. So we decided that we would do two Indian ancestors, two Chinese ancestors, and two Japanese ancestors.

[07:27]

And we made a list, and I broke the list today. Myogen was thinking that we would do daitaka. And I said, no, no, michaka. And I said, apashiasita. Vasya Sita is the 25th ancestor, kind of in the middle. And so instead of going down the line, we start in the middle and go both ways, which I think is a good way to do things. It's kind of like the way our body is constructed, from the center out. So... I don't want to go into Keizan's life. You can read that in the introduction, and I think you should, to get some picture of the background of Keizan and his teaching.

[08:31]

He's the fourth ancestor after Dogen of the Soto lineage in Japan. Can you hear me all right? Okay. Okay. So the question is, which is the favorite translation? There are actually four that I know of. One is the Nierman, which is from Shasta Abbey. And Mr. Nierman translated with G.U. Kenet Roshi looking over his shoulder. And you can see that in his introduction. is actually her introduction. And the Cook translation I like very much in many ways.

[09:35]

I don't have a favorite translation. These are the two that seem easiest to work with. Because Nerman, his translation has a uniqueness to it. And Cook's translation... he points out the koan aspect of each of these fascicles. And I'll explain that a little bit when I start. So sometimes I go to one and then go to the other for clarification. One clarifies the other. Cleary is good. I don't have any problem with Cleary, but it's a little... There's something about the other two. If you're going to study in a comprehensive way, it's good to read clearly, too. But I think that these two complement each other. And then there's a fourth one, which is Lex Hickson, who was... Some of you may have heard of him.

[10:39]

He had a radio program in New York a long time ago. He was a... a student of Maizumi and Bernie Glassman. And he and Bernie studied this pretty extensively, Tetsuyen, and Lex wrote a commentary on each one of the cases, which is actually quite nice. The commentary is quite nice. I can't remember what it's called. but I do have a copy. So without further ado, I'm going to start with near mod and then compare part of it with

[11:44]

Francis Cook. So this is, now, Nirmann starts with, he doesn't count Shakyamuni as one of the ancestors. He starts with Mahakashapa, I think it's that. No, he starts with Shakyamuni. So when we say 25, case 25, case 26, with Nirman, it's case 25. And with Cook, it's case 26. No, Cook. Is it the other way around? They're both the same. With Cleary, it's 26, I think, but with Cook and... Oh, okay. In this book, it's page 132.

[12:52]

Yeah, it's 132 in Neiman. So here's what makes it clear, the koan aspect of the story. Because first he has the case. Just like in the Blue Cliff record, it begins with the case. Here's the case, and then here's the development of the case, right? And then the second part is the circumstances. In other words, taking the case and kind of letting you know what it's about. And then the third part is Kezan's tesho, or his commentary on the case. And then the fourth part is the poem, Kazon's poem at the end, that sums up the meaning in an abstruse way.

[13:55]

Or maybe it's very direct. It is direct, but our mind makes it abstruse. So here's the case. Well, before I read the case, I'm going to go back here to case 19. I'm sorry, not case 19, case 24, which is Shishibodai. Just turn back to the case before this to Seit Shishibodai on page 129. Because Shishibodai, of course, plays a big part in this story, right? so we should get a little bit of feeling for him. Just go back to 24.

[14:58]

Just turn back a few pages to case 24. Chapter 25, the 24th ancestor, Shishibodai. And Clary has it as Ayashita, I think. It's... Shishibodai is the ancestor before Bhashashita. Does anybody have any trouble with that? Don't be shy. Okay, so I'm just going to read the beginning of that, the case. Shishibodai asked his teacher... Kakurokuna tayosho. As I wish to pursue the way to enlightenment, how should I exert my mind in order to do it? And Kakurokuna answered, if you would pursue the way, there is no situation where you need to exert your mind.

[16:07]

Shishibodai asked, if I don't exert myself, who will perform the work of Buddha? And Kakurokuna answered, replied, if you are involved in exerting, there will be no merit or virtue. If you do not make yourself perform, then that is the work of Buddha. A scripture says, the merit and virtue in what I perform is due to there being no egocentric I. When Shishibodai heard these words, he handed the Buddha's wisdom. Okay? So that's Shishibo Dai's something about him. And then at the end, very end of that, of that classical, the poem says, if you want to manifest the absolute, don't conceal it.

[17:13]

indefinable in its emptiness, pure in its tranquility, it has been evident from the first. So that sets up our case. Introduction to our case. Introduction to the introduction. And you notice that Nerman always, when he comes to these key words, he capitalizes them. So he's always capitalizing it. So it is the key word because it doesn't refer to anything in particular. It's a free radical. It's very radical. It's very free. Because it doesn't have any special meaning. It has no special meaning. But whatever you point to is it, right?

[18:20]

So this is the key to form an emptiness, the key to essence and function. Everything is it. Whatever you point to is it, and yet it is no special thing. Okay. So the 25th ancestor, saint, I don't like the word saint particularly. I think that's maybe Gio Kenet's thing. Yeah. We don't usually think about, in Buddhism, saints. Sometimes we do. Not so much in Zen, but you don't use that word so much. Anyway, here's the case. Shishibodai, who we were just talking about, right? Shishibodai said to Bhashashita, I am now transmitting the eye and treasury of the Tathagata's true law to you. Guard it well that you may be able to make it flourish everywhere in the future.

[19:26]

Having had his inherent karmic cause from a past life revealed to him, Bhashashita received unseen the seal. Okay, that's the case. And then what follows is the circumstances around this. How did this all happen? What are they talking about? Do you have anything you would like to say before I continue? No. Okay. So here are the circumstances surrounding the case. Bashir Sita was a Brahman from Kashmir. Kashmir, as we know... has a big feud between them. But Kashmir in those days, in the Indian times, was where the Sarvastavadins came from. Sarvastavadins were the early Buddhist school.

[20:31]

And you had to be a Kashmiri in order to be a Sarvastavadin. Isn't that strange? So Bajajita was a Brahman from Kashmir. His father was Jako, which means he whose deeds are silent. And his mother was Jo'an Raku. Jo'an Raku? Jo'an, yeah, Jo'an. Jo'an Raku, which means always at ease. So his parents were silent in her deeds. She became pregnant after having had a dream in which she received a divine sword. When Shishibodai arrived at Kashmir to preach, there was a man called Barika, or Sanskrit Aparika, whose name means he who assists, who had already been practicing meditation and contemplation. As a consequence, he had five groups of followers, those who practiced meditation, those who sought after knowledge, those who attached to appearances,

[21:40]

those who rejected appearances, and those who said nothing. I can't tell you anything about this. Since Chishi Bodai had undertaken to assist the five groups, his reputation spread far and wide. Cook has a little different translation there about the five. While he was searching for a Dharma heir, He was approached by a householder. So he was going around town searching for a dharma heir. This is very common in these stories, very common. And so this householder, his father, approached him and he said, While he was still searching for Dharma heir, he was approached by a householder holding his son by the hand, who said, My son's name is Sita, or Sita, the pure bright one.

[22:52]

He was born with his left hand clenched in a fist. And even now, when he has grown to boyhood, he still can't open it. I beg you... to reveal the karmic cause of this. Shishi Bodai looked at the boy, then holding out his own hand said, give me back the jewel. The boy immediately opened his fist and presented him with a jewel. The whole assembly was astonished. Shishi Bodai then said, When I was a monk in a previous life, I had a youthful attendant named Basya, the dutiful one. Once while paying a visit to the feast of the Western Sea, whatever that is, I received an alms gift, a pearl, which I entrusted to him.

[24:05]

Now he has returned the jewel to me, which is only right, The householder then gave up his son, allowing him to leave home and become a monk. Shishibodai then gave the boy the precepts and named him Vasya Sita, Vasya Sita, because of their karmic connection. Finally, when making him his Dharma heir, Shishibodai said to him, I am now transmitting the I and treasury of the Tathagata's true law to you. Guard it well, that you may be able to make it flourish in the future. So, of course, treasury of the Tathagata's true law is what Dogen calls Shabogenza. And this is, of course, what is transmitted, so to speak, even though nothing is transmitted specifically

[25:09]

but the true Dharma eye. Do you have any... Would you like to say it? A little later. Okay. Anybody have anything to say or question? It would be a bit of a deviation at this point, but it just brings up the question that Conan brought before in regards to there being any sort of self that is contained when we start talking about this is what he was in the last lifetime. It seems like there is a big difference in some of us then between the Hindu tradition of reincarnation and the Christian tradition of an abhorrent soul.

[26:17]

And whenever we bring up this no fixed self, but yet we read about past lives, it looks like we had an attendant place, you know, be a virgin who donated clothes like you looked at last time. It just kind of brings up the question of exactly what is the context we're viewing this from? Yes. So let's read. Khezan has to say about that. So I'm going to go to Cook. You can still follow this in Nierman. It's not that different. It's just that the expression is a little different. So here's the tesho as translated by Cook. Just follow it in whatever translation you have.

[27:21]

I'm sorry, it's just the next page. It's just a continuation. What continues is the tesho. You understand what I'm saying? So uncovered, the karmic causes of previous lives, quote unquote, means that in a previous lifetime he was a young man, the young man Bhashya. He received the jewel from the venerable, entered his mother's womb in the present life, was born in the householder's family, still held on to the jewel and guarded it, and finally turned it over to the venerable. In other words, turned it over to Shishibadai, as the story is related. you should realize as a result of this that the story does not mean that the fleshly body is destroyed and that there is only a true indestructible body.

[28:26]

This is called the Shrenika heresy in Buddhism, and Dogen talks about it a lot. He says we should be careful not to get stuck in the Shrenika heresy, which is what you were talking about. As the Indian, Brahman's conception, prevalent in India still, is that there is an immortal soul, and in Christianity too, there's an immortal soul that takes various shapes, but it's constant. And there's a body that forms around this soul, and then the body dies, and another body is manifested around this soul. So it's an immortal soul, but the body, mind, or the body decays and dies, and another body is born around it.

[29:33]

The thing is, there's a closeness between these two conceptions, but they're not the same. And so he wants to point this out. If you think that this is a destructible body, then how could he still hold the jewel now? You should realize as well that it is not the destructible body that receives life and loses life. You cannot say at this point that all the bones break up and scatter and that one thing is an eternal spirit which is everlasting. That's... the Shrenika heresy, that there is an eternal spirit that is everlasting. Isn't it? It's a big question, right, in everybody's mind. What kind of thing could an eternal spirit be? Well, you can think of a lot of things, but actually it is the appearance of leaving a body and the appearance of receiving a body.

[30:33]

In other words, there is something separate, something that that this soul receives a body and leaves the body. So it must be said that the former Basya and the latter Sita, right? Basya is the little boy and Sita was the other boy. You cannot say, sorry, I got to contemplate. It must be said that the former Basya and the latter Sita are not two. and past and present are not different. Therefore, you cannot speak of body, nor can you speak of mind. If it cannot be divided into body and mind, then you cannot divide it into past and present. Therefore, it is thus. In other words, manifestation only.

[31:41]

Any question? In Nirman, he says, therefore, it, the big it again, is that which is. That which is is the same as it is thus. Thus, yeah. That and thus. So it sounds like this really hinges on the concept of not being able to split past and present. And could you unpack this a little bit in regard to your way you're using the term manifestation? Well, when we get to the ocean, the ocean is it. If you think of it as the ocean, the great ocean, and the waves, as manifestations, right?

[32:45]

Yes. So the waves are manifestations of it. But the it is not separate from its manifestations. That's a big difference. In that analogy, the manifestation of it seems like the waves would be the body. but it still seems like we have an ocean and a soul that would be the same thing in that analogy. Well, there's something called the universal soul, not the individual soul. That's one way of thinking. Is the it the same as the Tao? It is like the Dharmakaya. So we talk about Dharmakaya, Sambhogakaya, Nirmanakaya.

[33:48]

Dharmakaya, as characterized by the sixth ancestor Hui Nong of China, Dharmakaya is your essential body, your essence of mind, true essence. which manifests in various ways. Sambhogakaya is your wisdom. Nirmanakaya is Buddha's activity as a person, as a manifestation in the world. So Sambhogakaya is, when we talk about Buddha in the world, we're talking about Sambhogakaya and the activities of sambhogakaya is nirmanakaya and the essence of sambhogakaya and nirmanakaya is dharmakaya. So dharmakaya is the ocean. Nirmanakaya is the manifestation like walking and talking.

[34:55]

This is nirmanakaya but this is sambhogakaya. The sutras are sambhogakaya. Your wisdom is your Sambhogakaya. Your Buddha mind is Sambhogakaya. So when we talk about the ocean, that's Dharmakaya. And the waves are Nirvanakayas. We say that Shakyamuni Buddha is Nirvanakaya. The seven Buddhas before Buddha. Shakyamuni is simply one of the... is the manifestation of mnemonikai in this age, long age, or whatever you want to call it. So, the waves rise when the wind blows, and then they go back into the ocean, go back into

[36:05]

and manifest again. But it's just all water manifesting. You can't say, the water of this wave, you know, manifests as that wave. But water manifests as all these waves. So when you say, who is the I, the big I, we're all the Dharmakaya, our essence. It's kind of, you know, getting into that understanding. There's somebody way in the back This hand, I can't say. You have to stand up or something. So I used to look at this co-op that was very large and brought 70 to 80 people. And it started up in the early 70s. And I was looking at an old photo album of some of the early days. Of what? Called this co-op when it first started. Which co-op is that? It's in Berkeley. It's a student blocker. I'm not born in it. So I was looking at the old photographs and I was seeing like there was like the same faces, the same kinds of people that were then were here when I was living there.

[37:15]

And I was astounded at the similarities and things that people were writing. Oh my God, that's just like this person. This is just like this person. And I was saying that although they were different people, there was still something about this house that manifests like the same personalities. I think it's the same thing. This is transmission of that particular kind of society. The faces change, the people change. I think of that in Tassajara, too. I remember when we first started, there were totally different faces. all those people, and now we're doing exactly the same thing, the Eno and the Abbot and all these positions, and it's just different people doing exactly the same thing. And so is it the same or different? That's a good go on.

[38:17]

Is it the same or different? It's not the same and it's not different. That's a kind of transmission. Yes, when... It's one about the non-divided mind, so that it's the same, and that you can find it in all religions, in all beliefs, right? So it seems that the only difference is that when you're awake or conscious, you can recognize. When you're what? Awake. Awake. Conscious. So they recognize each other because they're awake. Yes, they recognize each other because they're awake. That's right. That's true. There's something about the subterranean movement that manifests at a certain point in time.

[39:29]

Kakurukuna recognizes Basya. He recognizes he has the jewel. He said, this is mine. Give it to me. But what does that mean? It's a kind of mysterious thing. Kind of mysterious thing. Have a good morning. literal? You have to speak up so everybody can hear you. It's not literal. No. If you take anything, any part of Zen is literal. You're on the wrong track. Yeah. Whenever everyone's talking about oceans and waves and basha and shita, not two, but I mean when the first boy was alive and breathing, He was experiencing the world.

[40:31]

He had his own life, his own body. He died. This new person, this new child, you know, is now breathing whilst the other is not breathing and experiencing the world while the other is not experiencing the world. I can't see any connection between those two. I mean, we're talking about waves and talking about big souls. It's like it doesn't make sense to me at all. Okay. Just keep listening. Okay. Along the lines of Cecilia's comment, I think what struck me in the story was both the inevitability of this meeting and the remarkability of remarkable... That's right. ...both. And I wonder... I have a hunch that in our lives, we not only have these meetings, but maybe lots of them.

[41:38]

Well, what is a lifetime is another good question. I remember when Tatsugami Roshi came here, I was his first shuso. And he totally reconstructed the practice that was back in 1970. And we were serving gruel in the morning from the night before. We made gruel from yesterday's meal. And he said, it's okay to serve gruel at night, but don't serve it in the morning because today is a brand new day. This is the beginning of a whole new lifetime. One day is one lifetime. So today, we live for today. And so we have new food in the morning and ghoul at night to use up what we didn't use during the day.

[42:48]

Which doesn't mean you can't do that, but it's making a point. to practice totally today, as if this is the only day that ever will be. And then, surprisingly, we wake up in the morning, and it's the same as taking a breath. You inhale, that's coming to life, and we exhale, that's leaving. So in each breath is a moment of birth and death, or a lifetime of birth and death, depending how you want to think about it. but it is one complete cycle of birth and death. So when we're talking about this, you know, we have to be careful. He's also saying, what is past and present? What do we mean by past and present? Or past and future? Where does the past and the future meet?

[43:51]

Well, we say they meet in the present. But the present's already gone as soon as it arises. So we take a... Now is just always now. But we divide it up into little pieces for our convenience. And we say today and yesterday and one o'clock, two o'clock, three o'clock... But that's just our way of dividing. I mean, it's based on something, you know, celestial. Nevertheless, we make those divisions. And we can order it any way we want. But we think that it has to be this way because we do it this way. Our ancestors have always done it this way. And this is the way it has to be. But it doesn't. You go to the Amazon, people have a whole different concept of fast and slow and time and so forth.

[44:53]

So, you know, what is past and present and future? And then there's the idea that we died, right? So what happens after that? That's a big question in the realm of time. Yes? Is that where it says, therefore, it is thus? Is that the same as the thus come one? Well, yeah, you're right. Buddha is the thus-come one and the thus-gone one, which means as it is, just as it is, without delusions. So I'm going to just start again right here. I don't know how much time we have. Do you have anything to say? Actually, I have a lot to say, so I'm being silent. Okay. So I'm going to read again this part.

[45:55]

It's from, it is not this way just with regards to Bhashashita. But to speak the truth, everyone is like this. We're not just talking about Bhashashita. There's nothing that is born and dies. Okay, so this is always the big question about birth and death. This is why the Dharma is called the birthless and the deathless. Because there's only continuation. We think that things stop. But energy continues in some way. You know, when the wave goes up... It's not like the wave is... There is a movement of the wave. Basically, energy is moving through the water. And the wave goes up and down.

[46:57]

And then this wave goes... You can watch that happen. And this wave goes up and down. But the water is not... Unless it's a tsunami or something. The wave is not moving. The water is not moving that much. Basically, the energy is going through the water. And the wave just goes up and down. So... Is there the birth and the death of the wave? We can say so. Let's see, the wave started where? At conception? Does the wave start at conception? Where does the wave... Because of our limited understanding or our limited conception, we can only say the wave started at conception. Right? Or before? So... if you think in terms of no birth and no death, there's always a cause which is, like Thich Nhat Hanh says, we existed in our mother and father before we were born, before conception, as potentiality.

[48:04]

So it's called endlessness, endless manifestations, and people call it birth and death. but it's one manifestation as a cause leading to the next result, which is the next cause, which is the next result, which is the next cause, which is the next. Many causes, not just one. This is the thing about Buddhism, is that it takes many causes for something to happen, not just one. So one cause means that there's a creator who is the main cause. That's the thing about the soul. And in Buddhism, the soul is denied because there's more than one cause. So everything only exists in relation to everything else. This is called emptiness. Everything is empty because it's interdependent.

[49:08]

There's no inherent nature in any one entity. So any manifestation arises because of two or more causes. There has to be two or more causes for any manifestation to arise. Therefore, there's no soul means solo, right? So, in a sense, solo can be applied to the whole thing is solo, right? and the individual parts are not solos, although we feel solo. So even though we feel solo, it doesn't mean that we are. Although we... Suzuki Roshi caught in this term

[50:16]

Independency. When he gave his Sandokai lectures, 1970, he said, we have the term dependent and independent as opposites. He said, but there's independency. I said, we don't have a word, independency. He said, I know, but... Independency means... not quite independent, not quite dependent, right? Not absolutely dependent, not absolutely. So everything is absolutely dependent, but we feel independent. So everything does have, you know, this glass is just glass. Water is just water. But now where is it? So everything disappears into everything else. So... It is not this way, just with regards to Bhashashitta, but to speak the truth, everyone is like this.

[51:30]

There is nothing that is born and dies. It is just renewing heads and changing faces in accordance with time and conditions. Renewing heads and changing faces. Boom. Boom. Boom. It is not the way, let's see, it is certainly not a matter of renewing the four great elements. That means fire, water, earth, and air. Those are the four elements. It is not a matter of renewing the four great elements or renewing the five aggregates, the skandhas, form, feeling, perceptions, impulses, and consciousness. There is never any arrival covered with a lump of flesh, or arrival supported even by a gossamer hair of bone. Even though there are a thousand kinds of forms and myriad types, they are all the original mind's light.

[52:33]

In other words, they're all aspects of the Dharmakaya, or all waves of the ocean. Buddha nature, yeah. There are many names, depending, you know, there are many terms. Buddha nature is one. Essence of mind is another. The sixth ancestor liked to use the word, the term essence of mind. Don't stray from your essence of mind. Suzuki Roshi used to say, don't stray from big mind. So Buddha and Dogen said, don't stray from Buddha nature. So these are terms we use depending on how we're talking about it. But it is it. They're just terms, ways of pointing to it. So not knowing this principle, we think that a person is young and that person is old. But in summary, there are no old bodies and there's originally no youth. If this is the way it is, then on what basis can you divide life and death?

[53:41]

I would say birth and death. And how can you divide before and after? Consequently, pointing out that bhāsya from a former life and sitta in the present are not two bodies is the meaning of causes from previous lives. Grasping this, bhāsya and sitta received the Tathagata's treasury of the eye of the true dharma and benefited the future. Do you know the koan of... Seijo and her soul? Who doesn't? Let's not go into that now. Do you have anything that you want to say? Just tell me when you do. I'm going to end in a minute. Therefore you must understand that all Buddhas and all ancestors are fundamentally unawakened. and all ignorant people are ultimately undiluted.

[54:43]

Sometimes they practice and sometimes they arouse the thought of enlightenment. Bodhi and the thought of enlightenment are totally beginningless and endless. Sentient beings in the Buddhists are fundamentally not deficient or superior, respectively. Neither deficient nor superior, respectively. It is nothing but dustness everywhere. Thus, it is just holding and guarding it for many aeons and not forgetting causes from previous lives. There are many fascicles in here which talk about this. And I would recommend that you read number 19. Not now. And we can talk about it later. So that's a kind of assignment. Well, it's 19. Let me tell you.

[55:47]

It's either the 19th or the 20th, depending on what book you have. It's Kumaratha. Kumaratha. Former Lives. And then, I like... Nirman's verse. He says, whilst blossoming flowers and falling leaves may display themselves directly, the lord of healing herbs and trees ultimately possesses no particular flavor nor aroma. I want to explain that. His translation is, even though... Boy, this is so different.

[57:01]

Even though the huge waves flood the heavens, how can the... That's a different one. That's a different one, isn't it? Because at the time, blooming flowers and falling leaves were displayed at once. The king of medicine trees still has no distinct flavor. It's similar. Okay. No distinct flavor. No particular soul. So, can I just give a little different perspective on it from, say, as a kind of a myth, to think of this as a kind of myth? This is Buddhist mythology. When Kezon says, it's not just this way with regards to Bhashashita, but it is everyone.

[58:03]

Everyone is like this. It's kind of pointing to how this is everyone's experience. You don't actually, maybe you don't know it. But since this is a transmission story, there's a point at which there's a meeting, which takes trust. So if you imagine a child being born, any child, each one of you is a child being born, and there's some truth that you actually know. But as you grow up, you realize other people around you don't see it. They don't actually know. They don't allow you to actually reveal what you know. What is your truth? something that you know is true about yourself maybe. That you actually can see something and so you have to protect that.

[59:04]

So you protect it like an oyster makes a pearl around a little grain of some ultimate reality. And that then gets held. So you have to hold that until you actually meet someone who can see it. someone who can actually also meet that. And so this is, I think, something like this story of, oh, who knows where it came from? Who knows where this truth that I'm holding came from? But I know, and it kind of pains me that no one actually recognizes or allows me to speak it or allows me to share it. So I have to kind of hold it. I can imagine this little... little boy, right, holding something here, until he meets someone who can say, oh, you can show it to me. I know what it is. I know what it is.

[60:05]

And then he can open his hand. He can open his clenched fist and say, oh, look, now everyone sees there's some truth here that otherwise was being kind of closely held and closely protected. So this is just kind of another way of looking at the story in a way that is universal. I think that whenever I come to that place, it always chokes me up. It is deeply moving, right? To meet someone so that you can completely meet and completely trust with that. whatever is so precious. When you sit and you're holding it, that's it. Same it. Same it.

[61:08]

You're right. We always said, I always say that people say, well, what was so... special about Suzuki Roshi. And I always say, because he could see your Buddha nature, and that's how he related to you. He didn't relate to you in an ordinary way. It was ordinary, the most ordinary way. in that most ordinary, idle way. Well, shall we conclude? Yeah. There's a hand, Conan's hand is out. Well, I just have one more question, unless you want to conclude.

[62:16]

Yeah. So, just going back to the statement, it says it's a matter of manifesting. So do we understand this commentary or this teaching to say that the energy of the karmic consequences, the energy of the karmic conditions that previously arose, then playing itself out, it manifests, right? And it manifests in ways that look like a body of a vasha, a body of a shita. And we, because of our limited consciousness, want to make some continuity out of this, and contain it. Therefore, equivalent. And that is a mistake. That's one of the fundamental delusions. because it's simply the manifestation of the consent and conditions that must, by definition, arise.

[63:21]

Is that an accurate paraphrasing of what he was there by saying that past and present are not different? Because we are just making that continuity. Yes, we create the continuity, actually. Although we act out in the realm of continuity, things only arise momentarily, and then we line them up in a series. Yeah, we do that. We line them up in a series. You can see when you have a child that's born, just born, you know. I remember, how does my son decide things? Where are his pillars that he relates to to decide something? And a lot of it is just arbitrary.

[64:23]

The child, his whole thing is arbitrary. Pick up his food and throw it on the floor. It's all arbitrary, but he hasn't learned yet to line it up in a series. And that's what we do. We learn to line it all up in a series. And then... And then pretty soon we find out that the series, where is the series going? We call it the path. The child doesn't have a path yet. Not completely in the world. And then, this is all explained in Buddha Dharma, actually, about the stages of manifesting our life in a series. And there's something called... action influence. And this is the way Mahayana Buddhism is constructed to understanding of pretty much.

[65:27]

There are various ways that this happened, but one way is called action influence, which means that we lead a karmic life and the influence of that energy when the body decomposes continues and looks for another entrance. It's called ignorance, not in the sense of stupidity, but once single-minded, ignoring everything else and looking for a manifestation of parents. There's something I believe about this, but I don't believe the story, and finds its parents, and then manifests again. That's one aspect of continuation. There's something about it that makes sense and something about it that doesn't to me.

[66:28]

But the continuation of energy, that's scientific, right? We prove everything scientifically. But energy, it just keeps going. Once it's set in motion... unless it meets an irresistible force, object. The part that does make sense is not true. The part that does make sense is not true. The part that does make sense is what we actually construct, which we need to do, but we also need to acknowledge that we're doing it. Yes. And usually we forget that part. Yeah. We construct a theory and then we believe in it. We do it in all kinds of things, in all kinds of ways.

[67:30]

Then we get upset when things don't quite turn out that way. So, a little taste of Kezon. A little taste of Kezon. So we'll see what happens for next time. But you already have the assignment of number 19. But also, we'll probably, I don't know what we'll actually do. But right now, I think we might do. Shika and Vashimitra, which would be five and six or something like that.

[68:36]

Okay. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma Talks are offered free of charge and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfzc.org and click Giving.

[69:10]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_91.47