This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good evening. I'd first like to thank Tato-san for inviting me to speak this evening. Thank you very much. And thank you to all of you in the summer practice period that are helping Tassajara continue every day, every moment. Thank you very much. So how many people call this place Tassajara? Raise your hand. How many call it Tassajara Zen Mountain Center? Oh, that's good. I thought it would be more. Okay, and how many call it Zen Shin Ji, the Tanto-san?

[01:04]

A couple more over there. Okay. All right, so what is the name of this place? You know, and as I was coming in today, I looked on the gate, the new gate and the sign, and it... Technical difficulties? Okay. So I looked at the gate and it said Zen Shinji. And I feel that Suzuki Roshi named this place that for a purpose. And even though we call it Tassahara or Tassahara Zen Mountain Center, I think it's very important to know what Zen Shinji means and why he would call such a place such a name. So the temple, the Ji part is temple, just starting from the back end of it.

[02:07]

So Zen, the practice, Shin, Ji. Ji is temple. Shin is heart, great heart or great mind. And then Zen in the front. So Zen, Shin, Ji. And I imagine in my own mind, because I have a great imagination, that when he saw the beauty of the place, the trees and all the flowers and the mountains and everything, that his heart opened and that he had to name this place Heart, Great Mine, Wide Mine, Big Mine, Big Heart. He had to find a name that would describe the actually ingraspable, you know, things you can't see or touch. It's so vast you can't touch it. You can't grasp it. But you can experience it and you can feel it. So the first time I came here and I saw the beauty, my heart just opened up.

[03:10]

And so I felt that the great mind, the great heart immediately happened. in the moment that I drove up and saw the beauty of the place, the beauty of nature. And so I thought it was really important to maybe look a little further and explore this shin part, s-h-i-n, shin, zhin, shinji. And if you want to see how it's spelled out, you can look in the library, you can also look on the sign outside when you enter and see if you notice, or next time you come, if you notice that. So I'm wondering when you arrived, if you had the same feeling, if you had the same response. And maybe that's why you've come or you've heard about it or you stay here long or something. Something in the beauty of the place has brought you here, the nature of things. And I'm going to assume that most of us, that might be true.

[04:12]

I'm going to assume that. And maybe in our Q&A, you can tell me that's not so for you if it weren't. But I think that you know, having this beauty in front of us in that way is an opening, and then we cross that gate. We cross that gate of tranquility for our lives. So I'm wondering also when you walk in, you see all the trees, you see all the mountains and plants and flowers, and then you see all the people. Like, wow, there's a lot of people here. There's some people moving up and down. And I'm wondering, do you see the people as that nature too? And whether or not the people open up your heart because they too are nature. Do the people open up your heart in the way that you see the trees and the mountains, hear the water, see the stars, you know, in that way? Or does something else go on for you? Does it become...

[05:13]

a time of fear or a time of joy or a time of whatever might come up for you. So do the people open your heart in the way that I feel Suzuki Roshi wanted this place to do is to open up our hearts as people and have our great mind and our vastness. I want to look around and see nature sitting next to you. Just look around. And is your heart opening or is it simply just there? There's some, you know, nothing happening. What is the nature of this body? We are nature in this body. Nature is formed. Nature is form, and we are form.

[06:14]

We are nature. We are like the trees. We are like the flowers. We are like the sky and the stars. But somehow, something may get in the way of us seeing each other that way. So, is the body nature or is it not to you? Can you open to it? Now, you may look at... Some things in the, you know, out there you go, I really don't like those weeds, you know, and, you know, when they're going to clean that up, you know. There may be some things out there, and I say everything that, you know, really opens your heart, you know, but mostly it does. And so I wanted to explore a little bit more the sheen part. And Suzuki Roshi, of course, a scholar and a... and a follower of Buddha and Dogen Zenji, who is the founder of Soto Zen. And so Dogen Zenji talks about having this mind, this great mind, and that the human nature is the only way in which we can experience this open heart and this great mind.

[07:26]

And so without this form and without having this body... By what way would we ever shed light in this world? By what way would we ever come to sit with each other as we are sitting now? And many of us have been sitting throughout the week for Zazen. So there's three kinds of minds that Dogen talks about in Shin. And one is heart mind, which is wide as a sea, and it's very generous, as wide as the mountain, as high as a mountain, just vastness. That's heart, mind, which is called daishin, daishin, daishin, great heart, great mind. And then there's kindness, and that's called roshin, roshin. And kindness includes compassion, and we talk about that. We've chanted it this week since I've been here. We chanted the loving-kindness meditation, and so that...

[08:29]

kind of kindness they're talking about is not being nice, but rather seeing each other and loving each other in a way as a mother would love her only child, right? That's what's in the chant. So look around at your child next to you. There's your child. Look at your child. The person next to you is your child. You are the mother. And so when we have that, we have joy, which is the third one. And it's called Ki-Shin. Ki-K-I-Shin. Mind of gratitude and joy. So, and it's not, you know, trying to satisfy ourselves. It's not that kind of joy. We're trying to find our own personal contentment, but having gratitude. Having gratitude for our lives and for being a part of this whole thing nature that is on this earth.

[09:30]

And so far, I think, I don't know, I'm not a scientist, but I think they've gone to many planets to find out whether there's any other forms. And there may be. But right now, all we know, this is it. Right here, this form, and in this form, we are nature. Form is nature. It is. Our bodies are nature. So when we live in the world, and I know myself, I live in the world. You live in the world, some of us. It's not always easy to look out and see each and every individual as somebody who would open their heart. You would open your heart to. Or you might open your heart and you have fear that that other person's heart might be closed. And they might be closed. And my practice has been... in my life, that oftentimes I have run into a closed heart. And then I would try to close mine down.

[10:32]

And so I found that that was really not a place in which I would experience any kind of liberation or any kind of wellness. And it's very exhausting, very exhausting to close one's heart, you know, and takes away the experience that I could have of compassion because I'm too tired closing down my heart. So I think it's really important that each one of us have, you know, an opportunity to practice close heart, open heart. I think the heart is always open, really. And that what's being closed is our minds. You know, how we think about each other, how we perceive each other, the ways in which we are afraid of each other or anything, you know, might keep us from having that open mind. And so... an open heart. So I went along practicing open heart for a long time and especially practicing it when I felt others' hearts were closed to me.

[11:34]

And that was a very interesting practice to walk and not have response or any kind of feedback that you might want from others. And so I did it for quite a long time. And in the South, My parents were raised in the South, in Louisiana. And I used to hang out with my dad a lot. And we would walk the streets together, like hanging out with him. And we did a lot of carpentry. Every time the car went out the driveway, every time he had a Chevy, then a Buick, and he liked big cars. So every time they went out the driveway, I was sitting next to him. And we would go places. And then I would walk with him, and he would have his hat on. He always wore a hat. A Southern man always wears a hat. Never goes out without a hat, with a brim, like a brim hat. And so he would walk and he would tip his hat, you know, to people, everybody, anybody and everybody, he would tip his hat. You know, and I was trying to be just like him and I would go, you know, nod my head, you know, to people too, you know.

[12:42]

So I really learned how to do that as a child. And I didn't quite know really what he was doing, but I was just copying that, mimicking him. And as I got older, I continued that kind of thing. And the first time I didn't receive it back was really shocking to me. And things had changed. Times had changed. People weren't really tipping their hats anymore. I went back to that, and I still believe in it, that it's important to have, even if you don't do it physically, to have an inner bow toward any life, any form of nature that you see. Bow to it. Inside, if you can't bow out, but have an inner bow, an outer bow, a way in which you acknowledge and recognize each and every lie. You know, we do it, I think, here. When we walk across the path, you know, we're bowing. And we're recognizing and we're acknowledging the beauty of nature.

[13:43]

We're acknowledging how beautiful this life that's walking by me, how beautiful. You know, so I think that and feel rather that I want to continue that practice as much as, oh, southern Louisiana kind of thing, you know, of just saying, you know, hey, you know, and even if you don't know the person, maybe you might get to know them and maybe you might find out you know them already, you know, you've known them, you know, or they know somebody you know. You never have any idea of who you're walking by and what they're doing. And I think this is the story, and I'm going to stop pretty soon because I want questions from you. When you are the head student, Xu So, you're asked to talk about this section in this book of Serenity. And the section is about Bodhidharma, the patriarch of China, who brought Buddhism there. And... So Bodhidharma comes to China, and the emperor doesn't bother to go see him.

[14:50]

He's like, yeah, well, whatever. So we don't care about this guy. He's a teacher. They're saying, you need to meet him. He's a teacher. And he's like, I'm not. So he comes. So finally, I think one of his emissaries or whoever says, you must meet this great man. He's a great man. Bodhidharma's a great teacher. And that you must, you know, he heard, he started hearing about him too from all his people there, that he was a great person and he had something to teach. And so he says, well, okay, well then bring him. I didn't know he was, that's who he was. I thought he was some guy, you know, coming to China. And so he says, well, bring him. And so he says, well, Bodhidharma's gone. And he's gone. So before it's all gone, before nature's all gone, before the person sitting next to you haven't expressed any acknowledgement or love for the beauty of that body, of that life, don't wait till it's all gone.

[16:02]

Don't wait till the roof falls in and then we start hugging each other. Wait for the big earthquake. Let's not wait for these things. To know that we are in a relationship together, and this interrelationship is the most powerful thing on the planet. We're in this. And we can't get out of it. If you think you can get out of it, wow. We cannot get out of it, of this interrelationship. And to me, that was one of the core and most profound teachings of the Buddha. me of the interrelationship of all things, everyone and everything. So nothing can take that away. Nothing can take away oneness. Nothing. Because it's already here and it exists. Nothing can take it away. The diversity of all things exists inherently in nature. It's already there.

[17:04]

It's already there. All we have to do is recognize it. All we have to do is see it and love it for who we are. Let it be our mirror and walk out and see the flower in each other as our mirror of life and what has been given to us, what we have inherited. What we have inherited is nature. We're all waiting for our inheritance, how much money we might get, you know, when some of our relatives move along, if they have that, you know, they might be waiting for or wish they had some when they move along, you know, that they will give us, you know, a million dollars, you know. And that's not inheritance. That's not inheritance. That's the United States economy, economics. Our inheritance is nature. We have all inherited nature the moment we were born. And that is the greatest inheritance we will ever receive, ever receive. And so... Don't waste it.

[18:07]

Any questions? I hear this kind of moving around and making noise. Is that okay? Okay. Okay. Yes. Yes. One of the things is I noticed myself. And I noticed how I didn't look at people. Like my head was always like this. And because if I looked and they didn't look back in the way I wanted them to, you know, with this undeniable love. I just didn't want to see it because I had seen rejection to and undeniable.

[19:10]

I had seen it all, you know. So I would kind of keep my head, even though I would notice I was walking down the street. So the practice was to keep my head up and to look and to not be so concerned about what would happen, but rather to do as my dad did, give the inner bow. Because in the end, you know, he could have been bowing to it. a serial murderer. I mean, you don't know, you know, in the end, but you bow to that life. And so I think I still, I took on that practice again, and it meant that it didn't matter if the other person did it back. You know, at first it was very hard, you know, because there is a wound there, and the wound would be activated, right, by notions of rejection. And so I just continued to keep looking and looking and looking, and I found out a lot of times that when people were looking at me, it wasn't what I thought. too.

[20:10]

I had some thoughts about it that weren't so good, and it turned out that wasn't true. I was always surprised when someone would say something really good about me. Sometimes I would sneak and read my progress reports at work, and how they do evaluations, and I would be just amazed at what they were writing. Because I had the wound, I couldn't see that they saw something else in me that I didn't know. So once I began to see Even those who didn't return it just see how I responded to it. If I could respond to it with a great amount of love, then it would feed me anyway. And I didn't have to put my head down or dwell in the rejection, which wasn't feeding me. I was suffering. So I could leave that place of suffering by simply doing the inner bow and tip the hat. I just kept doing it till it eventually changed.

[21:12]

And sometimes I couldn't do it. There were times I couldn't do it. But now it's good. And I understand that everybody has their perceptions and their way of seeing. And I have a way of seeing, too. So I got to see, oh, look at you. You're not too good yourself. Who are you rejecting over there? Very interesting. you know, when you do that practice. Very interesting. Who or what are you rejecting? So that's what I can say about that practice of, you know, walking in the world, even with an open heart, open mind, with the, and I want to keep giving you the daishin, you know, walking with that. as even if someone else appears to be not returning that to you, that that practice is a practice of interrelationship, starting from you.

[22:21]

We usually want the other person to get it together so we don't jeopardize ourselves. Get all in there, and they're not there. But you just have to go, and if they're not there, maybe they'll come one day. Maybe they'll come one day and join you. Any other questions? I would appreciate your advice for those of us who sometimes practice in environments in which we don't feel entirely at home. For example, an apartment that isn't really beautiful. I don't think it's much easier for me to feel at home in my body and in mispractice when I'm walking through the forest than it is some other times when I'm trying to sit, when I'm trying to be with myself.

[23:38]

And I am curious about your experience or thoughts on perhaps when you feel maybe even a little bit alienated from the physical space. So the question is, how do you practice when you feel alienated from your environment that you're in, the external environment? Okay, I think that's a very good question. I think we definitely live in the material world, you know, and that means there's always a focus on the external. And, of course, I've been many places where the environment feels to be a place in which I don't belong. Sometimes I think it's the whole world. But, you know, like, um... I'm from another planet. That's why they named me Earthland. You know, that's my male name. So I feel that, you know, when one is not feeling at home where they are, they're really not feeling at home anywhere.

[24:50]

Because then you have to go keep finding and keep searching and keep searching for this external place that exists in your mind. You know, it's in your mind that you don't belong and you don't feel. Now, there are some circumstances in which you're made to feel uncomfortable. There's oppression. You know, there is racism and sexism and on and on and on. And still, you know, and it's everywhere you go if you experience that. So you can't really, I feel, find a place that's outside of the planet, you know, that will not have these things. I feel these things that come to us that we're confronted with are the very gateways, especially in this country. I feel that race, sexuality, gender, all these things that we are embodied with are exactly the gateways in which the awakening comes through. It's our body that we must go through. You can't do it out there. You can't come through wisdom without the body.

[25:54]

You can't come through compassion, love, kindness, any of those things without your body. As nature, the body in all of its various embodiments and forms, to me, exactly is that path that we walk in order to become awake to life, what life is and that journey. And so when I feel I'm in an uncomfortable place, I know that I have been dropped into the place in which now I must really, it's a crucial moment, And I must really begin to practice and see whether or not I really do feel at home here. Because if I don't, it doesn't matter, and no one can make me feel at home. They may do some things, but what if they go away? Or what if they stop doing certain things? And then, oh my God, I'm not home again. So these environments we put ourselves in, I think no one was... reprimanded by court to come to.

[26:57]

We all walked in here on our own, I think. So, you know, we put ourselves here. And then we go, oh, no. And so there's a way in which you must own what you take on as your practice. You know, oh, this is my practice. I didn't think this was going to be it. No, you had some perception of, you know, sitting quietly all the time or something, you know. Being a mom, you know, these things come, you know. So there's a way in which you're being challenged with that. Or you can go anyplace else. You go, you know, to a restaurant. Someone's told you it's the best. You start eating. You go, I don't get it, you know. So, you know, so, you know. That's the point when you really are challenged with your perceptions, your own patterns. Maybe there's a pattern in which you put yourself in particular places, and they all look alike. You go here, you go there, you go there, you go here.

[28:00]

There's a pattern to it. There's a habit. And so it's showing you that because you get uncomfortable. So every time you get uncomfortable, it's showing you yourself. When we sit in meditation, I was telling our class we're having this weekend, our study weekend, when we sit, we are coming home. We're coming home. You sit down, you come home. You bow, you're greeting. You open your hands to whatever is going to be coming to you in that coming home, you know, whatever is there. And you get to see your own home, you know, what it looks like, you know, and how it exists. Yeah. Can you speak up a little bit? You know, in the beginning, you know,

[29:13]

For a long, long time, I decided I didn't like people. And so, you know, I had made that my way of being that I didn't need to be around people. So it was really difficult to now, you know, take on a practice where there's nothing but people. And so, you know, I put myself there in other communities as well, not just the, you know, Zen community. And I feel that... For me, there was a deep yearning for the liberation and the love that Buddha speaks of. And to live my life in wellness, I wasn't going to settle for suffering from various things that are of this world. And I didn't need to get money or anything else outside of myself to have that. Even though there were the desires, not to say, I didn't want a fancy house or something like that.

[30:15]

But I'm just saying that the deeper desire which drove me, I had a thirst for Dharma. As a matter of fact, it was so strong that I asked my teacher, is that okay? To desire it so much. There isn't something wrong with that. And of course, this is a teacher, not Blanche Hartman. My teacher now is another teacher. And she said, no, the thirst for Dharma will do you well. You know, and I had that from the beginning, but I always had a thirst for spirit. I was like that as a child in terms of going to church. You know, I was like, when we're going to church, you know, and I was in the car before everybody else. So I was interested in this life. What is life and what is death? What is life and what is death? And why am I here? And I'm leaving. I was really upset to find out I was going to be leaving. When I was a kid, I was really angry at my mother. I said, well, why did you have me? You know, so I had to figure out, why did I come?

[31:16]

And what is this? And I would actually even stand in the mirror and look, like trying to see, what is it? You know, to the point, you know, I freaked myself out. You know, got the eyes going back and forth. You know, I'm thinking it's in there, you know, sort of right here. So it's, you know, that's as much as I can say about it in as many words. It's 915. Check. Where's the question? Oh. Well, it took 20 years. It did literally almost. So, you know. That's not a joke. But, you know, I began to see through the sitting the distortions upon, you know, appearances, the distortions upon identities.

[32:26]

And when I began to see the distortion and began to see the true nature of life, I could see that the rejection was of my own in a lot of ways. And then someone would meet that rejection from the outside, of course. So everybody who I would see, even if they weren't rejecting me, I felt they were rejecting me. So rejection comes from a long, long, long standing historical, even maybe sociological, psychological, you could go on forever. of a tension between people, especially in this country. I can speak of this country. I've only lived here. So I would imagine that you would start with yourself and what you reject of yourself, which I had to start with. What is it that you reject? Because you're waiting for someone else to reject it too. You're just waiting for it. And then they do it. It's going to happen. I'll guarantee you, I got some money to give you. We can bet on it.

[33:27]

I'll give it to you a little later. Not in my robe. I'll give you some money. A little bit. So, you know, so you begin to look at yourself and your own, I call it internalized treason. When you turn away from yourself, you leave yourself. because you have decided it is not worthy, your life is not worthy. You're looking for something outside and for someone, and then as soon as they reject you in some way, abandon you in some way, then you affirm, yes, I am that. I am that. So just know that there are many, many distortions upon our appearances. upon how we are embodied and how we walk. It's just, we're nature. We're nature. Enjoy it.

[34:30]

Enjoy your inheritance, your life. Thank you. Glad you were born. I think I can take one more. It's 920. Stop. One more? One more? Okay, one more. the strength to continue in that practice and continue to look inward and do that to you? Yeah, zazen. Yeah, zazen. I would sit in my corner in the many sashims that I have been through, many, many, many sashims day after day, and cry sometimes out loud, sometimes not. I feel zazen really gave me freed my mind of the things that I put upon it first. I got to see, you know, that, yes, some things happened to me with other people, including my parents, you know, but I was able to see that what I had gone through in my life and the suffering that I had gone through didn't mean that I was nothing, that the suffering hadn't, you know, pulverized me into a nothingness, that I was just

[35:50]

fully there, fully alive, and fully well, and felt that there are many places inside me that are untouched by suffering. There is a place inside me that is untouched by suffering, and that place kept me in the seat of Zazen. It kept me in the seat of Zaza. And no matter what happened, what went on, sometimes I'd say, you're crazy. No, I would never do it again. No kidding. I'm glad that part's over. But I am. You know, it was very hard. It was very difficult. And I didn't know the reasons. I didn't have the reasons for it. And I don't think anyone could tell me. I wanted people to tell me, but I had to find out on my own. And was I going to stay to see? And I had to ask, are you staying or are you going? Every time I got into the complaining place, are you staying or are you going? If you're going, go. If you're staying, stay. Stay. And so I kept saying, well, I'm not going, so I guess I'm staying because I want to know about the Dharma.

[36:54]

I'm here for the Dharma. I'm here for the teachings. I want to, well, I tell people I found God in Buddhist teachings. When I was in church, I didn't hear about these things. I heard about hell. So when I read Buddhist teaching, I said, wow, there's God. So when people ask me, is there God? And I go, hell yeah. I'll tell you about it. There's God. Yeah. Yeah. So we won't start singing any spirituals now. They'll start asking me things. Sing a song. So I asked you, as you continue here at Zen Shen Ji, that you look at each other, you bow, or even if you can't look, feel yourself and feel the mountain. Sometimes we're not even looking at the mountain that's right behind us. We feel a deer and it's right there.

[37:55]

You know, we might not see it. So it doesn't even have to be with this eye. You know, it could be with another eye that you see, that we see each other. Thank you for your beauty. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click Giving.

[38:28]

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