Good evening. Welcome. So I'll ring the bell, and we can just sit for a few minutes, and then we'll see what Dogen Zenji is up to. Hello, welcome again.

[06:33]

Today has been a somewhat exciting day at Green Gulch. You know, we try not to keep that happening too often, but sometimes it happens. This morning, Sashin was ending today. There's been a seven-day Sashin that our new abbot, Jiryu, has led. And then he ended Sashin with a Shosan ceremony. Some of you may have been at a Shosan ceremony if you've done practice, period. But in that ceremony, the teacher sits in a chair, rather ornate chair, in front of the altar. And each of the students comes forward and asks a question. And then it's asked in front of everyone. And then the teacher responds. So I was invited as the former abbess to give and ask the first question, which was quite fun. I enjoyed it a lot. And we had a very sweet exchange. And then I got to listen to all the other students, and it was wonderful.

[07:33]

You know, there were maybe 40 people in the room, which is a huge, you know, growth from where we've been during COVID times. So we've been able to have people come in, of course, with the testing and all that. But it was really nice to have a full Zendo. It's been a very long time. So that was exciting. And then I also watched a... NOVA episode that Paul Page and Kate and I were talking the other day, and he recommended this episode that I've put a link in for you all to check it out if you like. It's only about an hour, and it's absolutely amazing about quantum physics, which resonates very, very closely to what Dogen's talking about and what Zen is talking about. And next week, I'm going to mention Hawaiian which is a major school of Buddhism that very much influenced Dogen.

[08:34]

It's a school that's based on the Flower Ornament Sutra, or the Abhatam Sakha Sutra in Sanskrit, which if you even looked at the book, it's about that thick. And it's just page after page of the most ornate. descriptions of the universe and what it looks like and what's going on here and all the interpenetration of all objects interpenetrate with all others and very much like this episode, Nova episode on quantum physics and a particular aspect of that called entanglement and it's really quite amazing because it seems like the Buddhists and the scientists are getting not much left there that isn't coming together in terms of helping us understand, you know, what's going on here, which is basically that we really can't understand it. It's kind of beyond what we can imagine. But we keep trying. And I think the try is really thrilling. I mean, that's part of what makes it exciting. So I wanted to also share a couple of things with you.

[09:38]

I tried to do last week and I wasn't successful. So this week I'm going to do it. The first thing is a beautiful depiction of the universe. that is woven by our dear friend, Millicent Reed. And this is the tapestry that she, over there in Australia, she has spent quite a long time weaving this. And it was basically an inspiration from one of these, I think it was either the web or web telescope, space telescope, maybe the Hubble, not sure which it was, but this is a... an image that she copied from one of the photographs from what's called the Tarantula Nebula. And she was deeply inspired also during the time we were reading Dongchon's song of the Jiuamira Samadhi. And so she's in the Chinese figures over here, or you are not it, it actually is you. And again, this is the quantum physics and the Avatamsaka Sutra depicted right here.

[10:42]

in this beautiful tapestry, which has arrived at my home, and I'm really looking forward to finding a worthy space for it on a wall as soon as I can. And the other image I wanted to show you is of... Let's see, I've got to do a screen share again. This is... Zen Master Dogen, a very nice portrait that I found in a little researching I was doing on the web. And that was quite a wonderful and obviously very loving painting of Dogen Senji. So that's very much like the chair that Jiri was sitting in this morning. It looked just kind of like that. And he also had his whisk. And his robes. So we're keeping it up. You know, we're doing our best to keep this tradition alive.

[11:44]

Okay. So. So as I mentioned last Sunday. Dogen had a lot of objections to the practice that he had been training. And since he was a young boy, he was quite young. He was a young teenager when he went to the monastery. And as I mentioned, his mother had died. He was really very much in grieving his loss of his mother and also his grandmother, who were the two major influences on his life and his intellect. They taught him a great deal, Chinese literature and poetry and so on. So he was very indebted to these women in his family. And so he had told his mother that he would follow her wishes and become a disciple of the Buddha.

[12:52]

But Dogen, being a very bright child, wasn't easily satisfied with what he found in the Buddhist temples of Japan. And among the major objections he had to Japanese Buddhist ancestors were that some of them were leading people to seek enlightenment outside the conditions of their own mind, as though it were somewhere external to themselves. And others of them were leading the disciples to desire rebirth in another land. And so, therefore, Dogen said, if you want to study the best of Buddhism, you should consult the scholarship of China. far away, and reflect thoroughly on the living path that transcends the deluded mind. When you don't meet a right teacher, it is better not to study Buddhism at all. So he is pretty strict. You know, he was really not going to settle for anything less. And there was a lot of encouragement from his peers and from his seniors to just take up a big position.

[13:56]

Since he was the son of an aristocrat, he could have had a a major temple in Kyoto and lived a very comfortable life with his disciples and with a lot of luxury, really. So this was not what he wanted and not why he had ordained. So this delusionment with study in Japan is what stimulated his wish to travel to China. And so he brought the matter to his teacher, Myozen, Rinzai teacher, and they both began preparations for studying abroad. And in the second month of 1223, he was born in 1200, so he was 23 years old. He and Miozen set sail for China. So they arrived by ship to China in the fourth month of 1223. But it wasn't until the seventh month. Interesting, he was forced to stay on the ship, a lot like our immigrants are forced to do, to stay at the border. He wasn't allowed to get off in China. There was a lot of paperwork that had to be.

[14:58]

be done. And I think he wasn't a fully ordained bhikshu. He hadn't taken those full ordination as the Chinese monastics do. He'd taken the 16 Bodhisattva precepts, as we do. So this was a bit of a struggle in order for him to be recognized and allowed to step foot on Chinese soil. So finally, in the seventh month, he left living on the ship and was enrolled in, I don't know the pronunciation, I'm sorry, Qingtei Su Temple. which was a Rinzai temple where Isai, the founder of Japanese Rinzai Zen, had studied. So this is one of the five mountains, as they were called, and it was one of the leading centers of Zen Buddhism in China, and it was supported by the royal court, and it never had fewer than a thousand monks, or so it says. So while he was waiting to enter the monastery, these are some really famous stories. I remember hearing them when I first came to study Zen. I was like, wow, you know, quite evocative of some feeling, you know, deep inside of myself about who this person was, who our founder was.

[16:07]

So Dogen met with an old monk who was the Tenzo, the head cook, and the monk had come to the ship to buy some mushrooms. And when asked to stay and talk, Dogen asked him if he'd stay and talk, the old monk said, no, I have to go back and do my cooking duties. And Dogen said... no, I'm sorry, the tenzo, the old monk said, the reason for my being the tenzo at such an old age is that I regard this duty as the practice of the way for the rest of my life. How can I leave my practice to other persons? Besides, I did not obtain permission to stay out. So Dogen then asked why the old monk wasn't doing zazen and studying the koans of the old masters. Is there any worthwhile thing in your hard physical work? Dogen said. The old monk laughed loudly and responded. You, a good man from a foreign country, perhaps do not understand what the practice of the way is, nor what words and letters are.

[17:10]

Upon hearing this, Dogen was all of a sudden shocked and ashamed profoundly. So he's getting his first lessons from these Chinese practitioners. This old man looks like just an old worker, and already Dogen's beginning to feel like he doesn't really know what he's doing. So soon after enrolling at the Rinzai temple, Dogen again encountered the old Tenzo, and they picked up on their conversation from the earlier meeting on the ship. Dogen said to the old monk, what are words and letters? The monk replied, one, two, three, four, five. And Dogen said, well, what then is the practice of the way? Nothing throughout the entire universe is concealed, came the reply. Nothing throughout the entire universe is concealed, is hidden. So this encounter led to Dogen's realization of the limits and the dangers of language as well.

[18:12]

And more importantly, the possibility of using it, using language for spiritual liberation. by understanding the reason of words and letters. So for him, language and symbol held the potential for opening rather than limiting reality, and therefore the need to reinstate language in its legitimate place within the total context of human spiritual endeavor, or so he said. So for a long time, you know, the practices of Zen were about, like, really not spending much time with language, like not honoring language. It was like, you know, understanding or teaching outside the scriptures was a famous saying. So, you know, they were doing a lot of zazen, they were doing ritual, but this idea of study as a primary source of understanding had been relegated to a rather lower position. So Dogen's turning this around, very important part of what he did for us as his descendants.

[19:13]

So while he stayed in China, at this Rinzai temple for two years, Dogen observed that the religious situation there wasn't so much different from his own country. And he said, despite the great number of monks who proclaim themselves to be the descendants of the Buddhas and the ancestors, there are few who study the truth and there are few who teach the truth. So once again, he's disappointed. And following the death of the abbot of that temple, Dogen again went on pilgrimage to see for himself what practices were being offered at what are called the Five Mountains Zen monasteries. But he did not find the right teacher. And at that point, he considered going back home very, very disappointed, as he said, thoroughly discontented in his heart. And then Dogen was advised by another old monk to visit Ru Jing, who had been appointed abbot of Mount Tiantong Monastery. So Dogen wrote Ru Jing a letter. So here's the letter that Dogen wrote, asking for permission to enter quarters and seek instruction.

[20:20]

When I was young, I aroused the aspiration for enlightenment and visited various monasteries in my country. I had some understanding of the principle of cause and effect. However, I was not able to clarify the real source of Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. I was only seeing the outer forms, the marks and the names, like the traces of the ox. If you remember from the 10 ox-serving pictures, the seeker, you know, sees the footprints of the ox, but he just really wants to find the ox, you know, reality itself, the great matter, searching for the great matter. So he's only found the marks and the names, the traces of the ox. And then later he says, I entered the chamber of Zen master Isai. It's the Rinzai master back in Japan. And for the first time, I heard the teaching of the Linji school, the Rinzai school. Now I have accompanied monk Myozen to the flourishing kingdom of Song, China. After a voyage of many miles, during which I entrusted my phantom body to the billowing waves, I finally arrived and have entered your Dharma assembly.

[21:26]

This is the fortunate result of my wholesome roots from the past. Great compassionate teacher. Even though I am only a humble person from a remote country, I'm asking permission to be a room-entering student, able to come to ask questions freely and informally. Permanent and swift, birth and death is the issue of utmost urgency. Time does not wait for us. Once a moment is gone, it will never come back again, and we are bound to be full of regret. Great, compassionate, revered abbot, grant me permission to ask you about the way, about the dharma. Please, I bow to you 100 times with my forehead humbly touching the floor. These teachings you can find in a book called The Essential Dogen, Writings of the Great Zen Master, which was edited by Kazanashi and Peter Levitt. So Ru Jing wrote back to him, saying, Yes, you can come informally to ask questions any time, day or night, from now on.

[22:32]

Do not worry about formality. We can be like father and son. Signed, Old Man at Mount Taibo. So something about his letter must have struck Ru Jing as very special or unusual. So he welcomes Dogen to come into his room, which is unusual. Usually a very senior monk would have that kind of access to the teacher. So in the fifth month of 1225, Dogen met Rujing, and Rujing, pointing at Dogen, said, the direct transmission is accomplished in person between Buddhas and ancestors. So this single utterance in their first meeting went right through Dogen's heart. And he said, with the weight of 10,000 metal bars. So this face-to-face transmission with his teacher, who he knew right there was the one he'd been seeking all this time. And by that meeting, he experienced a great breakthrough. His self-conceit fell then, and his right faith arose at once. So Duncan, you know, when you read his earlier writings, you think, yeah, he's a young guy who really thinks he knows better than everybody else.

[23:40]

He hasn't found anybody who matches his own strength of practice and intention and knowledge. And so he can feel the... arrogance in how he's describing his fellow practitioners and the teachers of his day. But with this meeting with Ru Jing, his self-conceit fell and his right faith arose at once. This is wonderful. Something we long to see in ourselves, let alone in the students who come to study with us. After which Dogen said, I met my master Ru Jing face to face. And Ru Jing, as I said, and we know, is from the tradition of Tsaotong, or Sotozen in China, the Sotozen sect, descendants from Daoshun, I mean Dongshun, Tozan Ryokai in Japanese. So a little more of Dogen's words. When I stayed at Tiantong Monastery, I saw that Ru Jing, accompanied by other elders in the monastic hall, used to practice zazen until 11 o'clock in the evening and begin at dawn as early as 2.30 or 3 o'clock.

[24:49]

He never failed to practice this, even a single night. So apparently this uncompromising rigor was combined with some utter sincerity and very personal warmth. Ru Jing comes across as someone who was really very... very special, very special person and devout, devout practitioner. And so Dogen had an unreservedly high regard for this teacher who advocated Zazen only, Shikantaza, just sitting, Shikantaza, which later became the heart of Dogen's own religion and philosophy and has been passed on to us, as you all know. So the central religious and philosophical idea of Rujing Zazen only was the Body-mind cast off. We talked about that a couple weeks back when I read the Transmission of Light entry, the beginning entry in this fascicle on Dogen, rather a chapter from the Transmission of Light. Body-mind cast off.

[25:52]

Shinjin-datsu-raku. This is a phrase that Dogen repeats often throughout his teaching. So Dogen exalted and adored his teacher with tears of gratitude and joy, so much so that his rhetoric, may have superseded any factual description of Ru Jing. This is a scholar by the name of Kim who's talking about Dogen, another very fine book on Dogen. He said, you know, it's hard to tell what Ru Jing was really like because Dogen adored him and only used the most, you know, highest praise to describe him. Did he really sit every night from 11 to 3 in the morning? I mean, except for 11 to 3 in the morning, only slept a few hours a night? Maybe, but it would be hard to know. You know, because Dogen just had the highest regard for rooting. And yet, they apparently also had some disagreements about which Dogen said, contrary to the Zen tradition, the positive value of twining binds between a student and a teacher.

[26:53]

And in both of them growing together through these conflicts. So they had some disagreement. It's really wonderful to see that that was included in how they met. You know, Dogen questioned him. questioned him, didn't just accept whatever he had to say. And that must have been really great for Rub Jing, too, because it's so encouraging when students really challenge you. It's like, oh, well, maybe I better think about that a little more, you know, maybe that's not quite right. I'll do some more research or thinking or whatever it is we do. So after hearing the truth, the sole importance of Zazen, Although other monks, Dogen says, although other monks would give up temporarily out of fear of falling ill at the time of extreme heat or cold, I practiced Zazen day and night and no illness came. So he joined Ru Jing in the Zendo. So just to repeat a little bit of Dogen's awakening. In 1225, this decisive moment of enlightenment in Dogen's life came at last during early morning Zazen. In the course of meditation,

[27:56]

The monk sitting next to Dogen had fallen asleep. And upon noticing the monk, Ru Jing thundered at him. In Zazen, it is imperative to cast off the body and mind. How could you indulge in sleeping? Just sleeping. We're doing just sitting. In fact, Soto Zen has sometimes been accused by the other major school, the Rinzai folks, of being the just sleeping school. because we don't have a lot of instructions for what to be doing while we're sitting there. And it does happen at times that we do kind of nod off on the nod, as we say. So you can sort of watch when I was sitting in the abbot's seat for those many years. You kind of notice that a little bit of now and then there'd be a little heads would start to droop, including my own, by the way. So this remark shook Dogen's whole being to its core and the inexpressible ecstatic joy. engulfed his heart.

[28:56]

He went to Ryu Jing's private quarter, offered incense, bowed to Buddha, and then Ryu Jing said, what are you offering incense for? Dogen replied, my body and mind are cast off. Shinjin Datsuraku. The body and mind are as off, joined the teacher. Cast off are the body and mind. Datsuraku Shinjin. So cast that off. You know, I think we talked about that a few weeks back. Cast off body and mind, now cast that off. Don't hold on to anything. Whatever you find, that's not it. There's no it. There's just inspiration and, you know, some heartfelt loyalty or love or faith in the practice, the Buddhist practice. And drop that too, right? So this is the fruition of Dogen's long search and struggle. Professor Kim says that in being cast off, concrete human existence was refashioned in the mode of a radical freedom, a purposeless, goalless, objectless, and meaningless.

[30:02]

This is the first principle, the ultimate truth. Meaningless, purposeless, goalless, objectless. Justice is it. Can't get a hold of it. Freedom, the great freedom of nothing to get a hold of, the dropped off body and mind. So in other words, Buddha nature was unfolding through human activity and expression. So that's the second principle, you know, relative truth. While living codependently with the ultimate and meaningless truth. So there's this two things again. We've talked often about these two things, you know, avoiding the two extremes. The non-dual nature of reality is there's some meaning, that's the relative truth, and there's meaninglessness, that's the ultimate truth. And they're twins. You can't separate those two. Meaning has no meaning without meaninglessness and vice versa. So we always, whenever we have one side, second principle, we have first principle. They ride along together. So Dogen's dropping off body and mind is letting go of attachment to body and mind and attachment to body and attachment to mind.

[31:12]

So... Thinking back a little bit on the Yogacara model of human consciousness, that would be the six sense consciousnesses. And so the six sense consciousnesses are our five sense organs, and then our mind as an organ. As I said, I think many times, the organ for hearing, for sound is the ear, and for smelling is the nose, and seeing is the eye, and tasting is the tongue. And physical sensation is the body, the skin, the surface of the body. And then there's the mind, which is the organ for sensing thought and ideas and concepts and projections and all of the things we do most all of the time. You know, we're doing this. We're registering thought, you know, passing through. So, and then there's also, if... I don't want to bring up the Yogachara model again, but perhaps you remember there's also above the line what we're conscious of are these six sense consciousnesses.

[32:19]

That's all. That's all you ever know. That's all you ever get, all you ever have of this world is what's coming through those six sense consciousnesses. Below the line, there's the alaya, which is this big bag of your conditioning that you carry around with you. unconscious you're unconscious all of your things that you've done in your life all of the consequences of your actions all of the things you've learned you know if you learned how to play the flute that's in there if you learned how to speak spanish that's in there you know and they're not conscious right if unless you're actually engaging with one of those things they're just tucked away and you're unconscious kind of mysterious and wonderful thing that we can carry around so much of our conditioning. And it's also a kind of horrifying thing because we also carry around all the negative and the traumatic experiences we've had in our lives, which is one reason we often talk about, you know, being re-triggered or re-traumatized because that's still in there. It's in the body. It's in the body, hidden away.

[33:19]

And then there's the manas. Manas is one of the conscious elements, unconscious elements that is in love with the alaya. with the bag of all of our conditioning. Manas, which is also a product of the unconscious, kind of turns around. It's kind of a funny thing. It kind of turns around, is in love with itself. This is self-love, self-conceit, self-regard, or sometimes it's low regard. Either way, it's all about me. That's this little function of this thing called manas, the unconscious mind. Okay. So... So Dogen had studied this pivotal activity of the self and the not-self until his mind and his body dropped away. So he was very, very intent on noticing how his sixth sense consciousnesses were functioning. And kind of like rain on the roof of the temple, that poem I've often recited, his conscious, everything that arose just dropped away. He heard the rain and then the next drops and the next drops and the next drops.

[34:25]

We have the wonderful sound of the frogs in the morning right now. Maybe you do too somewhere where you are. But right outside the door where I sit, the frogs are in the pond there, and they're just amazing. All of a sudden, they'll stop. Absolutely silent. And then one of them starts up again. And then another one. Pretty soon, they're all going at it for a while. And then they stop. I don't know how they figured that out. It's a little bit of one of the great wonders of the world, how the frogs all stop and start at the same time. So body and mind dropped away until no trace of extinction remained. Body and mind dropped away. This no trace of the cessation in the belief of the self goes on endlessly. There's no hanging on to the dropping off of body and mind. And don't let that fact that you just understood something, don't let the fact that you just understood something, you know, get in your way.

[35:29]

Yeah, already gone. So Zen isn't about something you're going to get. It's about what you're going to lose. which is something I was told really early on. Maybe the first year I was at Green Gulch, Paul Disco, who's our master carpenter, who built our guest house and many wonderful buildings in many places. He was sitting at the table, and I think he just loved spooking the new students, but that's the thing I remember him saying. You're not going to get anything, but you're going to lose a lot. And I was like, ooh. And he was right about that. So in the ninth month of 1225, Ru Jing conferred upon Dogen the official certificate of the ancestral succession of the Cao Zong sect, the Soto Zen sect. So now he has dual transmission. He already had transmission from the Rinzai sect, and now he has Soto Zen transmission as well. And with an ancestral robe, Buddhist robe, the Kechimiyaku, the document of succession,

[36:36]

that you receive when you receive Buddhist precepts. For all of you who've done that, you have Akechimiyaku with your name, and Buddha's name, and Dogen's name, and Suzuki Roshi's name, perhaps. He also got a portrait of Rujing and some other precious objects. And then he returned to Japan in 1227. What he said when he got home was, I've come back empty-handed. My soul souvenir presented to his countrymen in Japan, was his own body and mind and total existence, which was now completely liberated and transformed. He had changed. Something really important had happened for Dogen, and he knew it. And so he knew better than to say he'd gotten anything. I come back empty-handed. He also brought back the remains of his friend, Myozen, the Rinzai teacher he traveled with, who had died in China the same year that Dogen had met Ru Jing.

[37:42]

So in the first year of the Saotong era, 1228 to 33 of the Song Dynasty, this is Dogen speaking, I returned to my native place, Kyoto, and I vowed to propagate Dharma and save all beings of the world. I felt then a heavy load was on my shoulders. In the fall of that same year, Dogen wrote the Fukanzazengi, the instructions for Seated Sazen, which can somewhat be kind of viewed as a manifesto of Dogen's new Buddhism, in contrast to the established Buddhist traditions of medieval Japan, the ones that he had been trained in up until that time. So that's pretty much what I wanted to talk about this evening. I have a lot more to say about Dogen, but... you know i don't want to pile it all in so um next week i'll also continue with his his return to japan and what he had to say when he got back um oh and i wanted to mention that i as i said i put in the chat i hope i put in the chat i think i did that you can get yeah there's the link for this um quantum physics nova this amazing uh episode of nova about quantum physics and um

[39:07]

I want to talk about that a little bit next week. There's also a book about Hawaiian philosophy, which is really foundational to Dogen, to Soto Zen, and to Zen in general. And this Avatamsaka Sutra, which is unlikely any of you will read, but if you do, that would be amazing, right, in itself. It's quite a huge, it's quite a huge text. We do read it every year at New Year, something I started when I was tanto, God, 25 years ago, I said, well, we were reading, I don't know, people reading whatever they brought to the New Year's table before we sat Zazen and did our bonfire and rang the big bell at midnight. And so I thought, well, why don't we read something It'll take a while. So I suggested they have a Tom Sacco Studio. And they're still going. I don't think they've finished it yet. Every new year, they read another section. I don't know what page they're on. I have to find out what page they're on now.

[40:07]

But it's really sweet to go by the Wheelwright Center and see the students in there reading this text out loud to each other. So I will say some more about that. And I just got a note from Helene saying she didn't get the link. Oh, dear. I think I saw it there. I don't think it's there. It's not there. It's not there. I have it. Oh, dear. Is it the one, the fabric of the cosmos? There's four episodes and it came out first back about 10 or 15 years ago. You know, the name of it is Einstein's I see what's the name of it. Paul, are you there? It's called... There's one on Fabric of the Cosmos, Quantum Leap. No. One single Nova episode, 55 minutes or so, called Einstein's Quantum Riddle.

[41:14]

Yeah. And it's available from PBS and all that, but the easiest one I found is on YouTube. I think you may be able to find it if you just... Search YouTube for that. Do you know how to put it in the chat, Paul? I can try. I thought I did. I mean, I did. I see it. I think I can only send it to you. You did. I can only send a message to you, but I can try copying that. You might be able to copy it to others. Okay. Well, let's give it a try. I keep thinking I'm conquering this thing, you know, this digital, this quantum universe that we're in. But so far, it's just beating me. So try YouTube. I bet you guys probably know how to search on YouTube. Was it again Einstein's?

[42:15]

Einstein's quantum riddle. He didn't believe in this. Right. Entanglement. Right. He hated that he found it. I mean, these guys hated that they found this stuff. It's like, what have we done, you know? Yes. It came out from the early quantum theories, and it made no sense. And so they really rejected the whole conclusion that things could be entangled, connected over long distances. And it changes everything. And that's the... point of the program was that it was extensively verified experimentally through a very complicated experiment in 2015. So it's a modern era that it's, let's say, indisputable. Yeah. Yeah. And they don't know why it works. They have no idea. It's so mysterious, which is what makes it so fun. It's like Buddhism, too. We don't know why.

[43:16]

How they figured this out or... where they got these sutras or how the, what does it mean to be awake? And all of that is just the great mystery. It's lovely to have everyone, you know, sharing in the great mystery. Like we just don't understand. Just don't ask me to, this guy who's, I watched another one shortly. It was connected to this one, the same, one of the same teachers it's on, on the Einstein one. And he does a lovely thing on quantum physics. I was trying to go back and get a little more of the earlier understanding or teaching. And he was saying, you know, if you get a student in your class, I guess he's saying, well, this doesn't make any sense. You know, how can two things affect each other over a great distance? That doesn't make any sense. And he says, the students will ask them, they said, well, we know it doesn't make any sense, but you just have to stop asking that question. And he said, and if they don't, eventually they say, you better change your major because you're not going to do very well in physics if you keep asking this question that none of us can answer. Yeah. And anyway, it's really kind of delightful to watch these scientists be so, like, not sure.

[44:20]

You know, they just really don't know what's going on. And I think that's pretty close to true, not knowing is nearest, as the Zen guys say. So I'm going to open up to the gallery booth. Karina, should I do that? Karina? You did it. Yeah, if anyone would like to join in the conversation or add something, please feel free to come. I found the YouTube. Do you know what to do? You did. Okay, good. Yeah, it's there. It was easy to find. Just search it. Perfect. Thank you, Helene. Alicia, I saw your hand. Where'd you go? Hi there. Hi, everyone. Coincidentally, I happened to watch that earlier this week.

[45:20]

And it was, yeah, so interesting. But it was funny because Einstein said quantum mechanics didn't make sense because it's spooky action at a distance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're still using that phrase, a spooky action at a distance. Yeah. Face-to-face transmission. Yeah. Yeah. So that's it. For now. Isn't that spooky action at the distance that you would have watched that this week? I know. I mean, hello. Exactly. I was going to say it's a coincidence or maybe not. It's good to see you. Yeah, you too. Marianne. Good evening, Sangha. Good to see everybody. This is actually Carmina's question, but I'm asking it. No, I'm Marianne. Don't confuse me. Listen, we're all interconnected.

[46:24]

That's true. We're all the same. Carmina is really curious to find out what was the question you asked Abadjuru? Oh, well, it was kind of fun. So I said... Looking at you, it's clear that you are myself. As clear as the back of my head. And then I said, so I think I understand how it is that we are the same. But can you tell me how we're different? And then he said, well, about four feet. I was standing on a mat and he's in the chair. So he said about four feet. from here. And so I walked forward to stand right in front of him. And he said, I said, now what? And he said, about a foot and a half above me. So then I bent down, got right in his face.

[47:26]

And I said, now what? He said, I can't answer. So then we both, we all had a good laugh. That's wonderful. Yeah, it was, it was very sweet. I have great appreciation for his taking on this mantle. It's, yeah, I really do. Thank you. Thanks for sharing. You're welcome. Thanks for asking. Hi, Millicent. Do you want to tell us anything about your beautiful piece that I shared with the Sangha just now? I laughed to see my toes food. Me too. I left them in. That was the very first picture, probably two minutes after it had been cut off the loom.

[48:30]

So they were very excited toes at that moment. Yeah. How long did it take you from inception? Tell a little bit about your inspiration to do that particular weaving. Oh, you, Fu. I'm thrilled to hear about the entanglement of everything at great distance because I thought, wow, this is a pretty great distance, which all of us have. Yeah. but it's Monday morning. That's a pretty big distance between, you know, and I think of the story of you and Juryu. Yeah. So I was, whenever you were teaching Donshan, which I think was probably about August last year, I had...

[49:31]

this beautiful book from the library of images from the Hubble telescope and thinking about it is you, you are not it. And there was this glorious image and I thought, oh, oh. Uh-oh. Gotcha. And I'm very struck this morning. I wasn't going to be brave enough to put my hand up, but while you were talking this morning, you said about Dogen's dropping off body, mind, you said, just in passing, drop off it. It drops off. So then we're left with nothing. And everything. Because, you know, nothing is the complement of everything.

[50:40]

So you can't get one without the other. Everything. Everything. If there weren't nothing, then there wouldn't be room for everything. So there's spaciousness. You know, sometimes they talk about nirvana as spaciousness. But now we're finding out that entanglement is more akin to what's going on here rather than space. In fact, they say in that Nova episode that there's no space, there's just entanglement. Space disappears. There's just connection. Everything connected and affecting everything else. And out of that comes what we see, what we experience, and us. That we're entangled. How to drop that off? How to drop off entanglement? Well, we don't have that power. We just have to drop off what we think of it.

[51:46]

We can drop off any clinging that we're doing, which is always going to be mental, right? We're just like, oh, I don't... Like whatever it is. I don't want to die. Well, you know, good luck. You're not in charge, you know. You just have to drop it. Drop it. Drop it. Oh, thank you, Fu. Thank you. So, yes, so I had, it was a terrific experience because the thing about tapestry weaving is it's very slow. So it was wonderful just to, spend time with that image and that insight from Dongshan from August to about when it was finished, whenever that was, February, something like that. Wow, wow. How many hours would you do at a time? Is that something you just little, kind of a few hours at a time?

[52:48]

Usually, usually, I got lost in it. I think, oh, I'll just have a go at that little bit. And then pretty soon it's dinner time. Yes, that's right. Anyway, I'm so grateful that this is recorded because I'll have to go back. You've spoken so importantly to me today about What we drop off. We drop off. It's not dropped off. Yeah. Just, yeah. I think. Thank you. See, you just did it. I know, it makes you giggle.

[53:50]

That's the nice thing about dropping off. What was I thinking? Yeng. Hello, Yeng. Hi, everyone. Hi. When you were talking about dropping off with Millicent, you know, I suddenly thought about this thing you told me a few weeks ago, maybe a month ago. It was really helpful to me because I was asking you about dropping off. You know, my idea was like dropping off what I think, right? My conceptions or the thinking I had, you know, every day or during my zazen. But then you said, how about just let the thoughts come and go? And that's called dropping off and not trying to push them away, but just really accepting everything. And I was really inspiring. And I constantly remind myself of that because I have a tendency to really drop it off, literally.

[54:56]

With a hammer. Yeah, I'm a very literal person. So I just want to mention that was really helpful. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay, there's another, I see another chat here. Oh, we have another hand. Great. Marianne, you're back. Yes, I'm back. And while we have Millicent here, I was remarking the first time we saw it, Millicent, that it was just so perfect, the art form that you chose to express both that picture and the thought. Because painting, yes, it does somehow absorb into the canvas and sculpture, the shape and the content, the... The method, whether it's wood or cement or bronze, takes the shape of.

[56:01]

But with weaving, each thread has to be tangled together. And so it just is the right form for what it was that you were expressing. And it comes from the Greek. And often it is translated as, in the person of Jesus Christ, that Jesus had emptied himself. But it's the wrong translation. It means Jesus had made room for the rest of humanity in himself. Beautiful. And so the emptying is making room for complexity, for everything to be a part of who Christ is. And so... I think of this concept in terms of letting go really means then to make room for all that is. Beautiful. Great. I'm glad you're there to help us with these retranslations. That's really neat. Thank you for that. That's beautiful.

[57:02]

Thank you. Yeah. I think it's in the first koan in the Book of Serenity where it talks about creation runs her loom and shuttle incorporating the forms of spring. So there's, you know, this weaving is really a very excellent imagery for all of it. And as you said, the entanglement and the imagery that comes from that, you know, it's not just sort of like the spiders weaving, but something amazing. You know, how do they do that? Perfect web. Wow. Just we're so. Our arrogance is so supreme sometimes that we don't see the amazing intelligence of all the living creatures and how they weave and create. It's good humility. By this humiliation, we shall be liberated. Hi, Lisa. Hi. You mean me?

[58:05]

Yeah, yeah, you. Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you for bringing up the Yoga Chara again and circling back and connecting that with the manas and the alaya. So I'm curious. So when we practice the Shikantaza, we're really, the manas is loosening. Is that like what's really happening? I mean, I know a lot's happening or nothing's happening, but both are not happening. And that's what's, shifting no one well that's the illusion maker so it's like mara you know it's like mara the evil one this this is the mechanism of illusion you know that they're modeling for us like this is how it's working this is how you're doing your little trick your magic of creating a self and an external world and you know all your problems and all your joys you're doing this all through this self-love and through all the accumulation of your past your conditioning and then you're you're

[59:09]

You're buying it. I mean, the main thing is believing. It's fine that it's all happening, but just don't believe it. Just don't buy it. I just don't want to buy what's being produced up here. It's like, well, that's interesting. That's really interesting. Oh, that's not nice. Whatever. But just to really not make that yours. This is not you. It's just stuff. It's flying around. like you're not free of it you know yeah go ahead sorry like in the past you've talked about not reifying it not reifying it not reify means to make something like it as though it's real as though it's a thing we're not things there's no things there's just you know stardust and photons and clouds and you know and it's just like we're just a miracle we're just miracles talking to each other right just a magic trick talking to another magic trick And we just forget so quickly.

[60:12]

It's really much more interesting what's happening here than we can possibly hold. So letting go allows for that space, like Miriam was saying. Much room for everything to come in. The tarantula nebula comes right home to us as soon as we open our eyes, our big eyes. Thank you. You're welcome. Millicent, yes, please return. Sorry, I'm back again, but this is in response to Marianne's comment about the weaving. It reminded me of how thrilled I was with the image of weaving because you can see from the tapestry and the image that you showed that the... The image is actually woven onto warps, which are the strings. And I was very thrilled with the concept through Yufu that the warps are like the absolute, like re, completely covered over by the weft, which is the story, the picture, which is G. And I thought, oh, that's a great image.

[61:35]

Because I always doubt the reality of re. So I spoke to David Zimmerman about that and he listened very politely to that and kindly. And then he said, well, it's still two things. You mean your thinking or...? In my image, that even though I was still thinking of Rhi and G as different, so he just told me to drop it, which clearly I haven't. But it's made me able to step away from my own metaphor, I suppose. Yeah. And I really appreciate the toughness of you teachers where you Push us the next step. Yeah, we had to get even for having been pushed.

[62:37]

So I'm terribly pleased to be able to say that David has accepted the companion piece to your piece. Ah, another nebula? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, great. I'm not clever enough to do screen sharing, but I'll send it to you. Good. It's called Cosmic Mudra, which is an image of the Nessie Nebula. Oh. And almond blossom from my garden. So I've got this guilty feeling that Zen Center is kind of being swamped. Well, you're not going to run out of subject matter anytime soon. There's a lot of nebula out there. Yeah. Wonderful. Okay. Anyway, thank you. And thank you, Marianne. Well, also, listen, when you look at Dongshan's work on the five ranks, he is discussing them as two things.

[63:43]

And it wasn't until the fifth rank that they're So for the purposes of study, we do see them as two things. One side is illuminated. The other side is dark. They're just two sides of the same thing, like you're weaving, right? But sometimes we look at the dark side and sometimes we look at the G side and sometimes we look at the R side until we can't tell them apart. So it is part of our study to try and see how those two things really are not two things. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. Hi. I was just, I got quite interested when we were talking, you were talking about Yugachara. You know, it's just, I'm fascinated by that. So I really like how you talked about not believing it. Because I used to think about this concept of manas and how to actually, like Alicia was saying, loosen it up and let it go. But then, you know, the way you put it really helps me because...

[64:47]

Models could also be helpful, right? Because we needed to cross the street and teaching our children. But then if you don't really get into the trick and then you transform it and it's still there, you're like accepting it. Yeah. Sometimes I was like having discussion with my children. I say, just think about you have a little monkey. They're cute in you. And sometimes the monkey will say things like make you try to trick you. But then I said, just be friendly, but don't believe that monkey. And then we were like laughing about it at the dinner table. We were like really happy about it. So I was thinking about mom. Sweet. That's really nice. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you. Great. Your kids are going to be really interesting. I don't know. I think I also confuse them a lot. Well, that's what makes them interesting. What's his name? Trungpa Rinpoche used to say to his son when he was little, his kid would be in the bathtub and Trimpa would say to him, are you eating your lunch? And the boy would say, no, daddy, I'm taking a bath.

[65:48]

And he said, are you sure you're not eating your lunch? He would just kind of mess with him a little bit. So he turned into a Dharma teacher eventually too, against his will. Anyway, great. Thank you. Okay, Helene, then I guess we can go. Hi. Well, you're in a colorful place. the blue space there. Yeah. I really like the color turquoise. Yeah. It's good. It's there. I was thinking about what was said about the, what you said about the entanglement between the Amamas and our conditioning. Yeah. And that is also like weaving. Yeah. Yeah. They all depend on each other. They would just be floppy if they didn't have each other to create structure.

[66:51]

You know, there would just be one dimension. So we have all this amazing dimensions of how this weaving has come together so kindly to let us walk around, have feet and things like that. It's amazing. Gravity keeps us on the ground. No one could do that. I mean... Some people think somebody did this, but I can't imagine anyone who could possibly figure this all out. Neither. It's kind of like, you know, just come. It just came. Way too many details. Too many details. It's just that. Yeah, that's enough. Just go have some love. I'll take your word for it. Okay, sure. Thanks. All right, everyone. Great appreciation for you all. See you next week. And if you'd like to say goodbye, please do. You can unmute. Say farewell. Thank you so much, Fu. Thank you, Fu.

[67:51]

Have a great week. Yeah, everyone. Thank you all. Take care. You're welcome. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Take care. See you soon. Entanglement. The best kind. We're entangled now. We really are. No way out. Might as well yield. Let it go. Let it go. I don't want it. You can whine. That's included. Good night. Thank you so much. Thank you. You're welcome. See you soon.

[68:45]

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