Good morning, everyone. Welcome to San Francisco Zen Center. My name is Kodo. I'm the head of the Meditation Hall City Center in San Francisco. This morning we're joined by Ryushin Paul Haller from Tassahara Zen Mountain Center. He'll be speaking to us. This is only the second time we've had a Dharma talk from Tassahara. I'm just delighted you could all be here. We'll begin with the opening verse, which you see in the chat window, and then Ryushin, if you will, we'll take it from there. An unsurpassed, penetrating and perfect Dharma is rarely met with, even in a hundred thousand million kalpas, having it to see and listen to. To remember and accept, I vow to taste the truth of the Tathagata's work.

[01:33]

sometimes pondering what I was going to say at a Dharma talk. And then I would get up and walk out and go up to the Zendo and sit in front of the students. And today I'm sitting in front of little postage stamp size pictures of you. It's almost like the little pictures of you are an extension of my own mind. It feels wonderfully intimate. And it seemed, from this perspective, it belies the notion that you're scattered throughout the world. I've seen Gene right in front of me and Mary, who are part of the Belfast Sangha in Northern Ireland.

[03:03]

Thank you for listening in. I think like many of us, most of us, I think the turmoil of the last couple of weeks has engaged me, perplexed me, left me pondering deeply. in some ways in a personal way. How come it took so long for me to see that systemic racism is rampant and highly influential in our society? And then not only that, what to do about it? How do I, as a person, how do we, as followers of the Buddhist way, respond to such a situation?

[04:19]

So, in a way, that's what I'd like to talk about this morning. And I hope I have something helpful to say. And maybe what I would hope for is that that helpfulness would express itself in a kind of a willingness to explore more thoroughly for yourself the impact of this turmoil following the impact of the pandemic, and maybe for most of us, the impact of the economic downturn. And yet my mind turns to thinking of the core principle of Buddhist practice and the core principle of Zen practice, which is asking us and inviting us and supporting us to be fully present with just how things are internally,

[05:43]

and externally. Not as a passivity, but as a deep, radical honesty and acceptance. And in a way, this is what the practice of zazen is. A deep, radical, honest acceptance of what's going on. internally and externally neither battling to diminish it or struggling to control it or trying to avoid it either internally or externally And I think one of the great lessons of zazen and awareness of who we are and how we are is that we see those ways of relating to our experience.

[06:56]

And we learn how to let them teach us what we are, who we are, and how we're relating to the world. And to find within that learning appropriate response there is a term in Pali sila and it's interesting usually it's translated into English as a discipline the dictionary definition of the word discipline and here is what I got training to obey rules or code of behavior, using punishments to correct disobedience. Now, if you delve a little bit, that's the definition of discipline. Of course, we could quibble about that, but let's leave it there for now.

[08:02]

And then, if you take the word sila and you do a little exploration within Buddhism, you find out... that the heritage of the original meaning was to emphasize the positive rather than rebuke the disobedience, but to invite us to explore what is it to call forth the virtues that we're capable of, the virtues in a Buddhist way that allow us to embody and express this settled acceptance of what is. That allows us to discover and literally to realize an appropriate response to who we are, what we are, and what is facing us in our world.

[09:09]

I couldn't help but thinking, as I was reflecting on those terms, that there's a way we can look at the notion of law and order, the notion that these are necessities within a functional society. And, of course, in the way they are. if a society is going to function well, there has to be a harmony. And a harmony usually comes around with an acceptance of helpful ways to be together. But to my mind, it's interesting to contrast helpful way to be together with what you might call the punishment of disobedience.

[10:18]

And on the other hand, promoting the virtues of well-being that we're all thoroughly capable of. In some ways, I think as a society, this is what we're struggling with right now. And maybe in a societal way, we're enacting what I think of as a struggle each one of us engages within our own being, within our own activity. How do I find within my own being a way to let the nobility of spirit, the natural impulse towards generosity and compassion and caring and benevolence, how do I find a way to let that flourish and not let myself get distracted and led away by competition, aggression, avoidance, preoccupation,

[11:40]

with what I want, whether that serves anyone else or not. How do we pick that up? And then the term sila is the way of being that enables that process. The way of being that has at its core that aspiration of benevolence, that aspiration of being in a way that helps us realizing, to realize the awakened nature of our being. I can see, as probably you can too, that that's maybe an abstraction in contrast to the practicalities and the particulars that are confronting us as a society and confronting each of us as a person but i think there's a helpfulness in starting there you know there's this helpfulness in a kind of a holding still

[13:08]

the helpfulness in seeing what happens internally in my own process also happens collectively in our group process and in buddhism and zen they teach that this kind of holding still this is this kind of letting something be witnessed, experienced, accepted, integrated into our being, helps to create the foundation of being that helps us respond to our life, singularly and collectively. Respond to that life in a virtuous way, in a way that literally will promote the harmony of being that we yearn for.

[14:22]

I mean, the very organism that we are is in a constant search for a homeostasis, a harmonized way of well-being. and we search for the same as a society. So I'd like to review a poem by Billy Collins. I think part of the interesting particularity of poetry is that it's trying to give us a sense of something rather than give us an idea or a concept by which to understand it to give us a sense of it that we can relate to it maybe in a heartfelt way maybe just in a deeper way than our thinking so here's the poem i ask you

[15:40]

What scene would I want to be enveloped in more than this one? An ordinary night at the kitchen table. Floral wallpaper pressing in. White cabinets full of glass. The telephone silent. The pen tilted back in my hand. But beyond this table, there is nothing that I need. Not even a job that would allow me to row to work. Or a coffee-colored Aston Martin DB4 with cracked green leather seats. No, it's all here. The clear ovals of a glass of water. A small crate of oranges. A book on Stalin. Not to mention the odd snarling fish on the frame of the wall. And the way these three candles, each a different height, are singing in perfect harmony. So forgive me.

[16:42]

For I lower my head now and listen to a short brass candle as he makes a solo while my heart thrums under my shirt. Frog on the edge of the pond. My thoughts fly off to a province made of one enormous sky with a million branches. There's always, in every moment, the opportunity to breathe, the opportunity to pause and feel, okay, this is it. This is what's happening. This is what I am right now. This is what our society is right now.

[17:46]

This is the state of the planet. This is the political character of the United States right now, of the world. And that allowing, that accepting it helps to create a foundation of benevolence. In its okayness, in its acceptance, there's a way in which our reactivism, the way we react to what's happening, is softened, and it starts to create the possibility of responding.

[18:53]

They're very different. Our reactiveness is a defensive mechanism. Whether that mechanism is driven by fear or aggression, it has an unexamined Impulsiveness. That question, what were you thinking? Well, usually we weren't thinking, we were reacting. Something instinctual about our survival mechanism was asserting itself. And as we find and take the time, just be the the the picture of what's happening starts to come into focus and as it does there is an alchemy that we're part of there's a way in which the innate capacity for thoughtfulness

[20:13]

the innate capacity to to see this for what it is this being this moment this thought this feeling this response to a particular circumstance or set of circumstances it's like the particulars of the moment become held in a spaciousness. Doesn't mean it's always pleasant. But in contrast to the reactiveness, the thoughtfulness, the spaciousness, the openness, allow for an intentional response. This is the essence of what our practice asks of us.

[21:20]

This is how we can relate to the circumstances internally and externally with benevolence. And that benevolence calls forth from within us a different set of responses. In our reactiveness, there's an implicit us and them. There is a necessity for a harsh law and order. There is a necessity for a discipline that punishes disobedience.

[22:23]

In our reactiveness, it seems like that's the only option we have. And in this settled, more spacious response, even though at times it might be heartbreaking, You know, the term sila, the attribute sila, it comes from a teaching, the Buddhist teaching of six paramitas, six dispositions, six characteristics that each human being is capable of that promote well-being individually and collectively. The first one is generosity. The second one is sila. this intentional well-being and the virtue it creates. And the third one is patience. Acknowledging this is not a smooth, simple flow for us.

[23:36]

Internally, anyone who has tried to meditate for 20 minutes has discovered the mind and the emotions and the imagination and and the memories and the anticipations they they pour force with the determination you know and then it's asking of us a great patience And similarly with each other, you know? How many times has every one of us been annoyed, frustrated, disappointed in someone else by them being who they are, you know? We're frustrated that they are who they are. Why can't they be who we prefer them to be?

[24:43]

it's not that this is a simple matter personally or collectively it's not that this is the automatic impulse of our being it's much more intriguing than that there's something about it that is heart's desire and then there's within us is an attempt a wish to thrive survive that can easily be triggered where we fall into a contracted limited way of thinking and feeling about our life Paramitas are a teaching on how to stimulate the positive attributes we're capable of.

[26:03]

And the marvelous thing about them is that they're not simply and abstract teaching. They're a way that we can bring into our world, into our relationships, into our activities, these positive attributes. The first one, generosity. if we think of life as a scarcity you know well then we need to compete there is a scarce commodity of what supports life and we need to compete with others to have enough to provide for our own needs and to survive but if we think of life

[27:18]

as a constant exchange, as a constant give and take, then what life is, it's a mutual process of benevolence. It's a mutual process of sustaining each other. There's an old Celtic saying that says we take shelter in each other in contrast to um we need to compete and sometimes like when you when you in that poem i read by billy collins you can say that he's receiving all the objects of his immediate environment There's a natural appreciation.

[28:24]

There's a natural gratitude. Someone gave me a book a couple of days ago. The book is called 99 Blessings. What the author did was, each day for 99 days, he wrote down what he was grateful for. And then he made it into a book. The author is Brother David Stantelrest, a Benedictine monk. And he considers this to be his primary practice, this appreciation. And I'd suggest to you that the appreciation, the... The acceptance, the holding still, the allowing what is to be what it is, nurtures our being.

[29:31]

It intertwines with the sila, the aspirational characteristics that promote our well-being. And as we internalize them, then we can externalize them. Sometimes it's silly way around. We offer the helping hand. We support someone else and feel the richness and the nurturance of that. It's sometimes it's easier to help others than to help ourselves. It's just the complexity of our being. But either way, if we engage it, something starts to grow. And I would suggest to you this is what our society is asking of us now.

[30:37]

How do we enter? How do we engage? this world that's inflamed? How do we meet the ways in which we've gone astray, that we've taken notions of law and order and turned them into oppression? That we've allowed them to accumulate a bias in which rather than serving society, they're distorting our natural tendencies towards harmony. And I would say to you, from this place of settledness, we can admit that, we can accept that without a reactive need

[31:48]

to create an us and them. Every human being has this impulsive tendency to support their own survival. And every human being has this capacity to settle, to open, to be thoughtful, to meet the world with generosity and compassion and benevolence. This is our challenge. And how do we see this in others that maybe our initial tendency is to see them as other? Well, that's the source of the problem. That's the person who's doing things wrong. That's the aspect of our society that's corrupt and malevolent. There's an early Buddhist teaching that says, hatred never resolves hatred hatred perpetuates hatred so to see that and and i think there are signs of hopefulness

[33:14]

When just reading the accounts where when the oppression stopped, the protests became more orderly. They were less violent. They were less oppositional. And that we can trust that process. promote it participate in a way that embodies it and then i think as zen practitioners we we can also hold it um within our own being we can let the external be internalized we can let the internalized be externalized And I would say to you that the notion of benevolence is a thoroughly practical one.

[34:27]

It seems like that there are things that have happened that those who perpetrated them need to be held accountable. That may be so. But it doesn't require malevolence. It doesn't require our harsh judgments. It requires our patient, deep understanding of the human condition. That any one of us, can readily and easily go astray. And I would say we have, hopefully, never in a grossly harmful way, but every one of us is in need of forgiveness.

[35:40]

And not to be dismayed by that notion, but rather to see, oh, well, in that forgiveness, we learn renewal. In that forgiveness, we learn a practical understanding of what we're capable of. We learn a skillful way of bringing benevolence and compassion and patience into the world. That's this curious request of our life. As we look for a deeper sense of justice, as we look for our way forward, I would say looking for who exactly is the enemy

[36:49]

is not as fruitful as looking for how do we create a virtuous renewal? How do we remember? How do we rediscover and reconnect to what is in all of our hearts? There's something we yearn for. I think of a poem by Nazem Ahmed, Things I Didn't Know I Loved. And he's sitting on a train, and he goes through, as the train rides through the night, different aspects of his own life and deep little details within them that he find nourishing, that opened his heart.

[37:53]

who couldn't benefit from such a way of being, who couldn't benefit through consideration of forgiveness of others, of themselves. And it's interesting how usually those two are intertwined. That as we forgive others, we're more honest about our own participation in what went wrong. And we're more capable of owning it and accepting it. And we're more capable of forgiving others. So I think of this...

[38:59]

is a time of amazing possibility yeah that um that somehow we've been sleepwalking in in in relationship to the the gross injustices that are built into our society Yesterday, someone who's a senior doctor in one of San Francisco hospitals. And the interns working under him are mostly people of color. And two of them are African-American men. And they were telling him, well, when I'm driving home after my shift at the hospital, I usually keep on my doctor's white dress. And I keep on my badge that has my ID that says underneath it, doctor.

[40:05]

Just in case I get stopped. And then by the police. And then they can see, oh, this is a doctor. It's a sorry statement of our society. It's something we should collectively endeavor to remedy. How can we be fully happy in a society that has such behaviors within it? it doesn't necessitate and us and them it doesn't necessitate you know the virtuous and the villainous our ancestors along with us have created it it needs to be deeply honestly accepted

[41:26]

This is how it is. Someone was telling me recently that she read with horror her great-great-grandmother's journal. Growing up in the South, her great-great-grandmother had read in the Bible some detail of the Bible where people were pinned by their ear to So she rounded up the children of the slaves that they owned on their plantation and pinned their ears to a post. Thankfully, we're horrified by such notions now. But for her at the time, It was just a kind of curiosity.

[42:35]

The unexaminedness of causing others suffering. May we learn deeply from it. May we see within ourselves the necessity of virtue, the necessity of benevolence, of compassion, of forgiveness. This is how we'll collectively make the world we want to live in. We have extraordinary capacity as human beings, and then in some ways... We're extraordinarily slow to learn our lessons. I mean, slavery was not abolished last week or last year.

[43:40]

It's amazing that rooting out its institutionalization, its systemic pervasiveness, it's amazing. It's taking us so long. But so be it. We can move forward. Forgiving ourselves, forgiving each other, forgiving those who have been caught up in this unbalanced world in ways that makes them look like the perpetrators from a buddhist perspective the intervening the way in which we all collaborate no in known ways and unknown ways to create the world we're living in

[44:52]

It's asking for forgiveness. This is the activity of Zizi. This is the activity of the aspiration to bring practice into our lives. This is the benevolence of not giving up on anyone. In Mahayana Buddhism, of which then is a part we say, beings are numberless. I vow to support every one of them to awaken. Delusions are inexhaustible. Will this be a turning point in our society And from now on, will it manifest in a marvelous, innocent way?

[46:04]

Probably not. Can we make a positive step in the right direction? Let's hope so. We are capable of love. It's our heart's desire. What a mysterious notion that it isn't more pervasive in our world. That we're more capable and readily attracted towards violence and war than we are towards love and mutual help. This is the great mystery that each of us is challenged with.

[47:13]

And in some ways, the paramitas, the paramitas, they offer us a tangible way forward. We don't have to have thoroughly enlightened the deeper recesses of our being, in our everyday activities, in the quiet way we notice, we've drifted into thought, we can pause, we can bring it back. So let me end by reading Billy Collins's poem again. I hope in hearing it, You can hear the simplicity, the ease, which comes into present moment.

[48:16]

The ease, he savors what's happening in that moment. And the acceptance that allows his heart to grow quiet and boomsical. I ask you, what scene would I want to be enveloped in more than this one? An ordinary night at the kitchen table. Floral wallpaper pressing in. White cabinets full of glass. The telephone silent. The pan tilted back in my hand. But beyond this table, there's nothing I need. Not even a job. that would allow me to row to work, or a coffee-colored Aston Martin DB4 with cracked green leather seats. No, it's all here. The clear ovals of a glass of water, a small crate of oranges, a book on Stalin, not to mention the odd snarling fish in a frame on the wall, and the way these three candles, each a different height,

[49:36]

or singing in perfect harmony. So forgive me if I lower my head now and listen to a short brass candle as he makes a solo while my heart thrums under my shirt, frog at the edge of the pond. My thoughts fly off to a province made of one and our best sky and about a million empty branches. Thank you very much. Thank you so much, Ryushin. We'll have about, if you'd like, we'll have about 14 minutes for some questions, and then we can do the closing chant together. This was a unique chance where we had a couple of questions submitted from Tassajara, so if I can, I'll read those to you for a response. Okay.

[50:37]

The first is, if the body... is the necessary site of awakening and is the personal and collective karma of the body's skin color and race sexuality and physical ableness something we can afford to not investigate in practice could you say something about practicing with physical embodiment and social identity i think it's important to note if if the body is necessary in some ways we could say the whole of our being is necessary personally and collectively and then each of these attributes uh arises for us as a coin you know a coin is

[51:40]

an aspect of a being that's inviting us to investigate it thoroughly, and through investigating it thoroughly, learn what it is to awaken. Learn what it is about how to awaken. These attributes are some of the emerging attributes of this time in our society. Do we need to resolve every one of them before we can meet this moment and move forward? No, we don't. Should we take each of them as a teaching, as something to address wholeheartedly? Yes, we should. And that allows us both

[52:45]

the acceptance of just what is, and the courage and the commitment to working with it as we go forward. Thank you. I see Topher next. Can you unmute me? You're unmuted, Tova. Okay, thank you. Paul, I appreciated your opening question. How come it took so long for you to see that racism is rampant in our society? And I wish you had talked more about your own experience. You used a lot of we and us, and I didn't feel... that you spoke for me.

[53:50]

I think, and I also think that the experience of those of us who are white bodied right now is different from the experience of those who are black bodied. And it wasn't always clear to me who you were talking about when you said we fall into a contracted and limited way to understand our lives. So that's one thing. And then I really wish you had chosen a poem by a person of color instead of a poem by a privileged white male, Billy Collins. I usually love the poems you choose for your Dharma talks, but today, and you read it twice, I just felt, oh, this is not the right poem for this talk. I'm sorry I am speaking with a lot of passion in my voice. I can hear it, but I was really upset by your talk. I just, that's very hard for me to say because I know you've worked for social justice in many ways, but I think this is an area where I feel that there's more, I don't know, and yeah, maybe I'll just stop there.

[55:10]

And I'm saying this with deep respect for you as a teacher and deep caring, but just talk, what's very disturbing to me. Well, thank you, Tova. As soon as I heard you say, oh yes, we is always an assumption. We is always presuming who we is and the inclusiveness of everyone in that assumption. I appreciate you reminding me of that and pointing out the limitations of it. When I was saying we, I think I was attempting to address the shared human condition that goes beyond the color of our skin.

[56:15]

And I think for a person of color hearing this talk, they may not have felt included in that. And yes, there is something that goes beyond the colors of our skins, but we have to recognize that the colors of our skins make a difference in how we see the world right now, especially right now. I agree. And I agree with your critique of the talk I just gave. And I apologize to anyone that might have find it frustrating or presumptuous in a way that they find offensive. I think as we take our steps forward, this is going to be part of our learning. discovering presumptions we're making that we thought were benevolent that in fact didn't uh that isn't how they were interpreted by others you know the difference between intention and impact so i uh i thank you very much for bringing up the point you did thank you for hearing me thank you you're welcome

[57:47]

If you're ready, I see Miguel next. Okay. Hi, can you hear me? Yes. Thank you, Paul, for your talk, and thank you for addressing these issues and how they affect our community. I speak from my experience as Mexican, as a person of color. that one of the biggest challenges for me in this is pretty much reconciling the harm and the responsibility behind these institutions as we talk about law and order. The six perfections have been very helpful to a degree. The hard part for me is reconciling, observing, One community is deeply harmed whilst another shrinks its responsibility.

[58:54]

And it's hard to apply generosity, sila, or patience. That one has been a challenge. And vow and mindfulness and meditation. I'm struggling with... with the younger generation of my family who's asking me as the older person in the family, what do we do? How do I reconcile this anger within me? How do I reconcile the pain that I feel because of what's happening? So just to sum it up, how do we reconcile the harm and the responsibility going forward? You know, I think the first thing we need to do is accept that it's happened.

[59:57]

And I need to accept that many people have been hurt. And then for people like myself, you know, I didn't grow up in United States. I grew up in Northern Ireland where there wasn't a racial issue. Our divisiveness was based on religious difference. And I see, but still, from working on reconciliation there, I see that the process of reconciliation is a deep truthfulness. at least it was there kind of a truth commission as was set out in South Africa was adopted there in Northern Ireland and I think in a way something similar could help the United States for a long time racial discrimination has

[61:19]

the United States. And it seems to me that it's only slowly that the layers of it are being acknowledged and brought into consciousness, especially for those who were in the place of privilege. And as Tove pointed out, I think even the talk I just gave had an assumption of So I think that, and then the institutional changes that would reflect a different sensibility was the common ground that we were all willing to operate from. But I would hope, Miguel, that the folks you're talking to, while rightfully requesting such actions, that they don't get caught in a kind of meeting that kind of injustice

[62:49]

with just frustration. I mean, even though the frustration is totally understandable, that they can help guide us into what's next. I mean, in some ways, it's their world that's emerging. And maybe what we need to do is let them take charge of it. Just From my point of view, part of the responsibility issue is that I want to give this generation that's coming up the tools, the understanding, the wisdom to be able to navigate, if not avoid the mistakes that my generation made, I want them to at least navigate those mistakes better. Yes.

[63:52]

And that's where I think the responsibility aspect comes in. It's very hard with community where we're seeing that the folks who have been harmed are asking for the folks who have done the harming to take responsibility and they shrink from that responsibility. And in the process of reconciling, we end up coddling those who have harmed and placing the responsibility of those who have been hurt. And that's one thing that I want to avoid with, that's one thing I want to work on. And, you know, I would completely agree that that won't resolve anything. In fact, that will, in a way, thwart the change that needs to happen. There has to be a radical honesty. and acceptance of the harm that has been caused.

[65:02]

Thank you very much, Paul. I do appreciate this. I've been taking notes through the talk, and I've got a nice little chunk to chew on for the next couple of nights. Okay. Thank you, Miguel. Oh, yeah. Why am I bowing? You can't see me bow. Thank you. Paul, I see a few things happening. One, that we're at our 11.20 time. I see a few more questions. I'd like to actually ask if you're interested in continuing for a few more minutes, or should we wrap up? I'm willing to continue for a few more minutes, if that's okay. Okay. At this point, I see three questions, one in the chat, and then I see two blue hands, and maybe we can say those at the end of the line. Nancy. Good morning, Paul.

[66:10]

Good morning, Nancy. Thank you for your talk. I've so appreciated this Q&A. And I so appreciate the trust that I'm hearing from Tova, from Miguel, from teachers asking questions of you as we all struggle with how to teach and how to hear and listen and learn right now. And I know time is short and I know this is a big question. appreciated your exchange with Miguel because he is a Zen priest and a person of color. And my question is, why do you think, what is impeding more people of color to enter this particular stream, to enter Zen practice?

[67:13]

Where are we failing? I'm not even sure if that's exactly the question, but you've been at Zen Center for a very long time. And I'm wondering if briefly you might have something to say about that. Yeah, when you said, where are we feeling? The message I wanted to hope, I hope to put across in my talk was not so much to ask ourselves individually and collectively, where am I failing, but to find within ourselves, you know, appropriate response.

[68:18]

I think in a way we fail because the innate disposition towards normalizing self-centeredness. And I think where we succeed is where we normalize inclusiveness and totally accepting all perspectives in supporting them. And yes, I appreciate that. And if there aren't more people of color who are able to hear this and to take up these teachings, then I guess I'm not sure how this teaching reaches them. You know, especially if we don't have teachers of color teaching. I know this is a big question, Paul, and I don't mean to put you on the spot.

[69:24]

I think it's a very important question for our community, for our organization in order to really take up these teachings and have the conversations that we, to really hear ourselves, you know? I thought the exchange I had with Tova exemplified Something of the process going forward. Yeah. That with good intentions, I said what I said. And with good intentions, Tova said. Yes. And. Yes. You see how it can be related to in this way? Can you see how when it's related to that way, it offers this kind of limited experience? us as this kind of limitation or this type of exclusion i i think um this is um maybe the inevitability of coming from a place of privilege yeah and and yet what else can any one of us do except

[70:44]

with as much good-heartedness as we can muster, come forward. And then, you know, listen carefully and deeply and take to heart the response. You know, listen when someone says there's a limitation to that. I think San Francisco Zen Center, Individually and collectively, this is what is being asked of us. And a willingness to change. Not only listen, but let the lesson register and change in response to it. Thank you for your wisdom, your humility, and your apology, and your learning. We'll see.

[71:48]

We'll see. I hope I intend to. Thanks, Nancy. I see one more hand that's up now, and that's Richard Graff. Thank you, sir, for that talk. I guess I had a slightly different reaction. When I heard you say we, I thought you were talking about Buddhists. And I think that studying – I've been studying Dale Wright's book, The Six Perfections, and I've been stuck on the chapter on patience because he asked the question, how can we be patient with injustice? Do we – and he sort of raises the idea that as Buddhists that maybe we don't necessarily react to injustice with anger, that we – to confront it with wisdom and compassion, and that that's our response. And that I've been having a really hard time doing that because I know that it feels like the natural response is anger and that I see a lot of anger.

[72:59]

I see a lot of rage, especially in people of color. And I don't think that's – I think that's normal, and I think that's reasonable in response. But I'm still trying to – In your talk, I heard you say that we shouldn't react, shouldn't come from a place of reactivity. And I was going to talk a bit about that, about how do we confront injustice patiently and wisely and compassionately. And I think with radical honesty and acceptance of how things are, we're making a distinction between our thoughtless reactiveness and letting the truth of the moment register.

[74:04]

I think when we do that, we set in motion. a different process and as we let the truth register um we take it in and something then rather than a defensive reactiveness or a frustrated reactiveness there's there's the possibility the potential for something a different kind of response and i i think Those of us coming from a place of privilege need to realize that those who have been deeply hurt personally and generationally will quite lightly express the hurt, the frustration. And that's just how it will be.

[75:07]

Yeah, I guess I've seen a lot of... I've come to realize that people who are experiencing racism are responding with rage and that I, as a white person, maybe have the privilege of not having that rage and that maybe that's part of the problem is that I don't feel that way. I don't feel that rage and I don't feel compelled to do something. And I've noticed that about myself and I'm seeing that this is... I'm part of the problem in some ways that maybe I'm... sort of embodying racism in some way by not feeling motivated really motivated to try and stop it and that you know i'm looking at that carefully right now yeah and i and i think that's the key point for us all to look at it carefully about our own thinking about our own assessments and and letting and asking of ourselves a deep truthfulness that we can um Take to heart, literally, and act from.

[76:19]

Thank you. Thank you. Roshi, a third and final question, and then we can have the closing chat. From the chat, this comes. Do you think being able to study Zen is a privilege? No. I hope not. Maybe it's a privilege that every human being deserves to have, but in a more common sense of the use of word privilege, where some are privileged and some are not. I would hope not. I would hope going forward that would be one of the aspects of how we present the teachings that we would look at deeply.

[77:22]

Thank you again for the discussion, the time, the extra minutes. Thank you to the assembly. The closing chant is in the chat if you'd like to chant along. May our intention equally extend to every being and place with the true merit of Buddha's way. Beings are numberless, I vow to save them. Delusions are inexhaustible, I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless, I vow to enter them. Thadda's way is unsurpassable, I vow to become it.

[78:34]

Thank you so much, everyone. Be well, and if you'd like to say goodbye, you can now unmute yourselves if you wish. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Tova. Paul's beautiful. Thank you. Thanks, Paul. Thanks, Paul. Bye. Thank you, Paul. Thank you, everyone. Thanks, Paul. Bye-bye.

[79:14]

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