Hello again. I've had a very nice big practice day today, being Sunday here at Greengalch. We had a Sunday talk. Linda Ruth gave a very nice talk about her recent pilgrimage that she made in Spain, the Camino. She walked the Camino. And then just now, I was down in the Zendo again, and Tenjin Roshi was doing a Jukai, a precept ceremony. And it was so sweet. Usually, I mean, I've been to a lot of precept ceremonies over the years, I've been in them, you know, I've received precepts, and I've given precepts. And so the people came in, they came in the side door, there were three people, and they're all like, I don't know, this isn't supposed to be insulting, but they were old. They were like my age. And there was this obvious, it was so sweet. You know, they were all just, they couldn't bow.

[01:09]

They weren't going to sit in Seiza. They are on cushions. They were all sitting on stools. And everything about it was just so dear and touching. And I think Rev thought so too. We were all smiling through a lot of it and rooting for them. You know, they were just so sincere. That was really, really sweet, very lovely. So that's been my day up till now. I just came up to join you all and talk about the Tenzo Kyokun, the work of the cook. So I had thought to finish the Tenzo Kyokun tonight, but I think I want to do one more little round, because there's a nice section I'd like to share with you toward the end there. And I don't think I'll have time this evening. I actually have to leave a little after six. So the Tenzo Kyokun, this is Dogen's instructions for how to work in the kitchen, you know, instructions to the head cook. And in the last few classes, I read the introductory paragraphs of this text, and I talked about the emphasis

[02:15]

in Dogen's teaching on wholehearted effort. I think if you were gonna come up with one thing to say that Dogen teaches, it's wholehearted effort. And whatever you're doing, whatever the activity is, whether you're sitting still, or walking, or chanting, or working, cleaning, or cooking. It's a wholehearted effort. So this emphasis is actually the hallmark of the Soto Zen school that Dogen founded or brought, actually, he founded it in Japan, but he brought it back from China. And Dongshan was the founder of Soto Zen, a Chinese Zen teacher. So the motto of Soto Zen is in Japanese is, me mitsu no kafu, me mitsu no kafu, which means attention to fine detail. And I think, kafu is cotton cloth, I think, and it's this tiny weave, this very fine weave, that things fit together carefully, and then there's a pattern that emerges and so on.

[03:15]

So this attention to fine detail is the hallmark of Soto Zen. So last week I told you about Shui Feng, who was working as the Tenzo under Dongshan, Soto Zen founder, and their conversation about whether you sift the sand and remove the rice, or sift the rice and remove the sand, which is kind of funny, but basically these are metaphors for right views and wrong views, or the ultimate truth and the relative truth. How do you figure that out? How do you separate that which is basically completely integrated with one another? How do you separate that, or do you separate that? How is this teacher going to work with this teaching? this little challenge between Shui Feng and Dongshan, who have a conversation about that. So Dongshan has asked Shui Feng, the head cook, which do you do? You sift the rice or do you sift the sand out of the rice or the rice out of the sand?

[04:16]

And Shui Feng says they are removed at the same time. You know, it's okay. And then Dongshan says, well, then what is the assembly going to eat? You know, sandy rice. So Shui Feng then knocks over the rice bucket. That's his final response to Dongshan. And Dongshan says kind of like, well, that's okay. That's okay, but it's not, you know, you're going to have to account to someone else someday, meaning I'm probably not your teacher. And so the point of the story is really to challenge this tendency in Zen to engage in wild or erratic behavior in order to demonstrate non-attachment to forms or to standards, you know. In other words, to the relative truth. that you're not attached to behaviors which can be judged as either good or bad, or skillful or unskillful. That's just human stuff. We don't have to submit to that when we realize the non-dual nature of reality. Everything's included, including kicking over the rice bucket.

[05:18]

So in the realm of the ultimate truth, Suifeng, knocking over the rice bucket, is neither good or bad. It's just something that happens. It's included. as part of reality. Everything's included as part of reality. But for Dongshan, Shui Feng's wild fox spirit does not show respect for the food, for the hungry monks, or even for himself. So by disrespecting the relative truth, Shui Feng has missed the heart of Dongshan's understanding of the Buddha's teaching. And so Dogen adds to this section of the Tenzo Kyokun, When preparing meals, one should reflect intimately on one's own self. The food will then be of itself pure and refined. Treat utensils such as tongs and ladles and all other implements and ingredients with equal respect. Handle all things with sincerity. Pick them up and put them down with courtesy. He also says when soaking the rice for the midday meal, the cook should not leave the vicinity of the sink.

[06:24]

Keep a sharp eye on everything. so as not to waste even a single grain of rice, and properly rinse out any foreign objects. Put the rice in the pots, light the fires, and steam it. Of old, it was said, when steaming rice, treat the pot as one's own head. When rinsing the rice, know that the water is one's own lifeblood. So I read this passage a few, I don't know when it was, sometime this year. I gave a talk about the Tenzo Kyokan. And I talked about this one grain of rice. You're not wasting a single grain of rice. And then afterwards at the tea and following the lecture, this very nice woman came up to me and she said, do you speak Korean? And I just kind of thought, why is she saying that? And then I remembered that I had mentioned during the question answer that I had done a chat bot. For fun, I asked chatbot, well, who am I? Who is Fu Schrader? You know, I was saying, who is Fu Schrader?

[07:25]

And the bio that the chatbot produced had some parts that were accurate, but then it went off on this riff about I spoke Korean and Sanskrit, and I had all of these kind of magic powers of various kinds. It was really amazing, actually, and I couldn't find it. I wanted to read it to you. It was pretty funny. So I told them that that was... know that none of that was true but it was kind of funny and maybe it was better than my actual bio and so uh anyway i said to her absolutely sorry i don't speak korean uh which she did and she was in fact from korea and then she told me that the importance of this this don't waste one grain of rice from her childhood uh that dogan mentions in his instructions to the cook isn't just some kind of you know poetic device or some idle teaching. She said after the war, there was so little food for them that so much of it had been taken from them. And so that it was very, very much you don't waste a single grain of rice.

[08:27]

If a grain of rice fell on the ground, you got it, you picked it up, and you ate it. Rice is the mainstay of the Asian diet. And so they didn't waste a grain of rice. It was a sincere practice. from her childhood. And I was really struck by how different these teachings are when they're viewed as just poetry or some teaching story, as opposed to someone's life, you know, their lived experience, such as this woman when she was a child, and so many children. who are having these experiences right now, if not enough food, not enough water, or physical safety, and so on. We know that. And that's going to be, when they grow up, when they're grownups, and hopefully they will, that'll be part of what they've learned as children, to respect these very basic things that so many of us just take for granted. You know, I think a lot of us in this Sangha have been extremely fortunate. as children, not to have known hunger or danger of warfare, and so on. However, I don't assume that's true for all of us, right?

[09:29]

And I think that's a very important point, too. We never know when we meet another person, what they've gone through, you know, what's been their experience as children, and so on. So that brought to mind a film that I want to share with you right now, it's very short, it's about four minutes, that was produced some years ago by the Cleveland Hospital. And maybe you've seen it, I don't know. I had not. My partner, Karina, who was a social worker at San Francisco General for many years, told me about it. And I shared it here at Green Gulch with the students. I just watched it again and I thought, oh, this is very good. It's called Empathy, the human connection to patient care. And as you'll see in this very short film, it invites us to withhold our judgments and our assumptions about others, you know, that we really don't know. what they're going through and they don't know what's happening to us. I think this video is giving the same message that Dogen is giving about respecting everything and everyone.

[10:33]

We really don't know what's going on. We don't know how to fix things. But we can be present and we can be curious and we can be kind. I'm going to try to do this. I think I've figured out how to share this with you. Take me just a second to set it up. All right. Okay, there's this kind of crazy thing where, oh no, what's happening? I bet you can hear that, can't you? There's an ad. You have to listen to these ads before you get, oh, there we go. That was for some cosmetics or something. Okay, now. Okay, so now I'm going to come back to you and I'm going to hit screen share. And let's see what happens here.

[11:40]

And I'm going to open it up. And all right, can you see that? Okay, good. So that's it.

[16:22]

And I found it touching again every time I see it. It's so true. We go by people all the time and we don't know anything about what's happening for them. So just to be able to hold the space with people, that little smile at whatever opportunity there is to share with others this kindness. I do think that's what these teachings are all about, and I think that's what our bodhisattva vow is all about, is, you know, living for the benefit of others, and it's simple, in simple ways, you know, just, how do we do that? Well, we do that, you know, we just do that, we find out how to do that, we practice doing that with each other, we practice on each other, doing that, being kind. So, anyway, that was Cleveland Hospital. So the next section of this essay, Dogen shares this very profound impact that he was made on him as he arrived in China by these two tensos, who basically taught him something that he completely didn't understand his deep confusion about practice as a young privileged monk from an upper class family who traveled for his day first class and had all the resources

[17:46]

of his culture, his education, and so on. And he meets these working people, these Tenzos. And he doesn't quite know how to understand them, but the impact on him, which is recounted in the Tenzo Kyokun, is stunning. And these are very important stories. I remember hearing them, you know, early on in my coming to Zen Center. So I thought I would just read through the couple passages here about when Dogen meets the Tenzos. When this mountain monk, Dogen, I, Dogen, was in Tiantong Monastery, the position of cook was held by a cook by the name of Yong of the same province as the monastery. Once after the midday meal, I was passing through the East Corridor on my way to the Chaorong room where my teacher Miozen was being nursed. His teacher, Japanese teacher Miozen, who was a Renzai teacher, he had traveled with him to China and Miozen at this time is in a, is, is convalescing, and he doesn't survive.

[18:49]

He dies there in China. He never makes it back. So Dogen, of course, doesn't know that yet. So, when I saw the cook in front of the Buddha hall, he was airing mushrooms. He carried a bamboo staff in his hand, but he had no hat on his head. The sun was hot, the ground tiles were hot, and sweat streamed all over him as he worked diligently to dry the mushrooms. He was suffering a bit. with his backbone bent like a bow and his shaggy eyebrows he resembled a crane i approached and i asked the cook his dharma age and he said he was 68 years old and i said why do you not employ the postulants or the laborers and he said they are not me and i said dogan venerable sir your attitude is indeed proper but the sun is hot why are you doing this now the cook said well what time should i wait for i took my leave Dogen says, but as I walked along the corridor, I began to realize how important an opportunity this position affords, the position of Tenzo.

[19:53]

And again, in the fifth month of the 16th year of the Jadang era, 1223, I was on the ship at Jingguan, and while I was talking with a Japanese captain, there was an old monk who arrived. He was about 60 years old. He came directly onto the ship and inquired of the Japanese passengers if he could buy Japanese mushrooms. I invited him to drink tea and asked him where he was from. He was the head cook of the monastery on Mount Yawong, and he said, I come from Sichuan. But I left my home village 40 years ago. This year, I am 61 years old. In the past, I have trained in quite a few different monasteries. In recent years, I stayed for a while with Gu Yong. I was able to register at Yu Wong Monastery, but for some time I felt out of place. At the end of the summer retreat last year, I was appointed cook of that monastery, and tomorrow is the fifth day feast, but the entire menu does not yet include a single delicacy. I need to cook noodle soup, but still I have no mushrooms, and thus I have made a special trip here to try to buy mushrooms to offer to the monks of the Ten Directions.

[21:00]

So I asked him, what time did you leave there? And the cook replied, after the midday meal. And then I inquired, how long is the road from Yuang to here? And he said, 34 or 35 li. I meant to look up how far li is, but I think it's pretty far. 35 li. And I asked, well, when will you return to the monastery? And he said, if I can buy the mushrooms now, I will set off right after that. And I said, today, I did not expect to meet you and have a conversation on this ship. It is most fortunate. Is it not to form this karmic bond? I will treat you to a meal. And the cook said, well, that's impossible. If I do not oversee the preparations for tomorrow's meal offering, it will not turn out well. And then I said, are there not co-workers in the monastery who understand the meals? What will be deficient if only one officer, the cook, is not present? And the cook said, I took up this position in my later years. It is this old man's pursuit of the way. How could I hand it over to others? Besides, when I came, I did not ask to spend the night away.

[22:04]

I again asked the cook, you are venerable in years. Why don't you sit in meditation to pursue the way or contemplate the words of the ancients? It's troublesome being cook. All you do is labor. What good is that? The cook laughed and said, my good man from a foreign country, you do not yet understand pursuit of the way and do not yet know about written words. When I heard him speak in this manner, I suddenly felt ashamed and taken aback. I asked him, what are written words? What is the practice of the way? And the cook said, If you do not slip up and pass by the place you ask about, how could you not be a man? At that time, I didn't understand what he meant. The cook said, If you still don't understand, come to Yuwang Mountain at some other time in the future, and on that occasion, we can discuss the principle of written words. So having spoken thus, the cook got up and said, It's late in the day, and I'm in a hurry, so I'm going back now. And off he went. In the seventh month of the same year, I registered at Tiantong Monastery, that's Ru Jing's monastery, where Dogen ended up finding his teacher.

[23:11]

And while I was there, that cook came to meet me and said, at the end of the summer retreat, I retired as cook, and I'm now returning to my home village, and I happened to hear a disciple say that you were here. And so how could I not come to meet you? So I jumped for joy. I like this because Dogen sounds so human. It's like he's a person. He jumped for joy. He was so grateful to see this old cook. In the ensuing conversation that I had with him, I brought up the karmic conditions of written words and pursuit of the way that we had discussed previously on the ship. The cook said, the study of written words is to understand the purpose of written words. Exertion in pursuit of the way requires an affirmation of the purpose of pursuing the way. And I asked him, what are written words? The cook answered, one, two, three, four, five. And I also asked, what is the pursuit of the way? And he said, in the whole world, it can never be hidden. Although there was a great variety of other things that we discussed, I will not record them at this point.

[24:17]

The little I know about written words and understand about pursuing the Way is due to the great kindness of that cook. I told my late teacher, Myo Zen, about the things that I had just related here, and he was so happy to hear them from me. Later on, I saw a verse that Suedao had written to instruct the monks. One letter, seven letters, three letters, or five. Investigating myriads of images, one reaches no basis. In the depth of the night, the moon sets into the dark sea. Seeking the black dragon's pearl, one finds that there are many. One letter, seven letters, three letters, or five. Investigating myriads of images, one reaches no basis. In the depth of the night, the moon sets into the dark sea. Seeking the black dragon's pearl, one finds that there are many. So what that cook said some years before and what Sway Dao expresses in this verse clearly coincide.

[25:18]

More and more, I understand that the cook was a true man of the way. But in the past, what I saw of written words was one, two, three, four, five. And now today, what I see of written words is also six, seven, eight, nine, and 10. whatever that means. Anyway, so that's, that's Dogen's huge, huge transformation that took place, meeting workers, meeting people whose devotion to, you know, to work, which is certainly become, thanks to Dogen, and thanks to the writings that he did around the kitchen, and how the kitchen is, is in our tradition is valued equally with the Zendo. There isn't this kind of Oh, those are just the workers over there. It's like, There's Dharma practice and the real Dharma practice that you're going to get to do yourselves is go to the kitchen or go to the farm or go to the maintenance and take care of these things for the sake of the entire community and the community for the sake of the entire society and so on, radiating outward from that concentrated intention to the fine details.

[26:27]

your life of your practice you know people know that they see that they feel that when we're able to do that and so and so do we there's both an implosion an explosion of you know wholehearted effort so um you know that's the basic dogen's basic offering to us is is exactly that so i want to uh let's see do i have anything else i want to share i think that was it for now but i wanted to open now because as i said i need to leave a little just right after six or right at six. So I thought if any of you had not had a chance, they wanted to introduce yourselves and say a little bit about what brought you to practice. That would be great if anyone wants to do that who hasn't done it already. And if not, I'd love to hear anything you have to say about your own work. or how you see work, or how you find this particular teaching that's really emphasizing, you know, very practical, applying your understanding of all of these wonderful philosophical teachings of dogens, you know, to like getting your hands into the warm water, and getting them clean, and then using the utensils.

[27:39]

taking care of the meal and so on and so forth. So how do these teachings actually enter into your your your actual life, you know, if they don't, they're pretty much what what's their value, you know, if they're not impacting how we live our daily life, how we care for objects, and so on, then it seems to be just kind of abstract, you know, just some kind of thing you do with your head. but it doesn't really affect how you work with your body or how you work with things that you run into throughout the day. So, with that said, I would like to open the floor to all of you who might like to ask something, share something. Please, you're very welcome. Do any of you have jobs? Yay, Alicia.

[28:39]

Hey, good. Hi, it's good to see you, Fu. It's good to see you, Sangha. As you were talking, I was just thinking about the time that I did a residency at Zen Mountain in Mount Trumper, New York. And it was back in 2011. And it was interesting, Fu. I would add up all the hours we spent in work practice. And it was eight hours a day. And there were times when I was like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe I'm doing this job again. At one point, I was churning apples. And I did it by hand with this big old-fashioned machine. People would comment, oh, the applesauce was great at dinner. I have to admit, I was like, I don't care about applesauce. I don't want to see apple again. Exactly. The reason I brought it up is... You know, sometimes when I was doing the work practice early on, I would, you know, think about this job. Why do I have to clean the toilets?

[29:41]

And why can't I be studying the Dharma? You know, there was a library. I was like, I wish I could just go study. You know, so I so these things would go on in my mind. And I have to tell you, by the end of the time of my residency, that is really one of the things I took away from being there. is wholehearted practice. And it took me a while to realize that was practice. I was practicing when we were doing work practice. And, you know, in my mind, I thought, ah, we should be studying. I wanted to do the one, two, three. And I thought that was the way I was going to learn, you know, and deepen my practice. But it was in the work practice that I deepened my practice. And that was one of the many gifts. So it just reminds me when you say that. And All these years later, that is how I work. Wholehearted practice, attention to detail. And that was what such a tremendous gift I got from being there. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, you're welcome. Yeah. Thank you. Someday we can make applesauce together.

[30:43]

Oh, I'd love that. I'd love that. Yeah. Melissa. Hi, you're in the kitchen. I'm in the kitchen. Well done. I'm cooking right now. As we were talking, I was actually rinsing my rice. Wow. I'm half Japanese. And so I grew up always making rice. Rice is the staple of my diet. And when I read the Tenzo Kyokun and I thought about the practicality of not losing a grain of rice, and how I don't think I ever washed a bowl of rice in my entire lifetime and not lost grains of rice. And as you were sharing and I was washing and I really thought about like, okay, well, how do you not? What's the position of the hand?

[31:46]

What's the tilt of the bowl? What's all of this? Do I need a sieve underneath? Like all of these mechanics that you, don't normally think about when you're doing something as banal as washing the rice. And yet the Tenzo Kyokun elevates it to a level that I think I really connect with is everything you do has this element of sacrament to it. And to approach it thusly, first of all, you have to slow way the hell down. which we're not accustomed to in our culture. And then secondly, you actually have to put your mind into these problems of like, what's the exact, what's the exact place? What's the, and what's that practice like? And it's so, I try to do this in my working world. I find it a challenge in part because my working world,

[32:52]

thrives on multitasking. And that ability to be singularly focused is to be truthful, something that I deeply, deeply crave about being in Green Gulch. And my favorite part about being in Green Gulch is the work practice. Because I can just focus singularly on one task. And it's sublime. really to have that much focus on one thing it's not something that in when you work at a desk job you very often get so anyway that's um oh thank you melissa so nice to see you in your workplace working on that one grain of rice you know we do have tricks for that by the way you know they do we do use a sieve I imagine. Since I read the Tenzo Kyokan, and I was the Tenzo here, you know, I am pretty meticulous about those little grains of rice. I was just thinking when you were saying that about having to slow down.

[33:55]

There's a film I just caught the beginning of it. I think it's called, what's it called about the light? No light or all the light? The light we cannot see. I mean, it's kind of out there right now. There's this blind, young blind woman who's kind of alone in a house, and she's, I don't know if you've all seen it, but it's kind of intriguing, but... my sister's blind so watching her being taught how to find her way through that little model city so that she can use the textures of her of her cane and of her hands and just how she's using her hands to touch you know and i thought oh that's dogan that's dogan's practice where it's not just your eyes that are grazing and touching all of these things but your hands are are You know, the grains of rice and what they feel like as you take them off of the strainer or, you know, anything you're doing, the beans as you're, you know, carefully putting them in the pot or whatever it is. There's something about that exquisite sensuality.

[34:57]

It's sensual. Your senses, you know, right? It's like the gift of your senses. And it's not even like you have to slow down. I want to slow down. I want to live this, you know. So I hope this keeps growing for you. I hope it becomes more and more of a realization, which it is, that it's your inheritance to enjoy every single moment of your life, you know, one way or another. Yeah. Wanted to know what else she's making for dinner. Hi, Lisa. Good to see you. Good to see you, Fu and Sangha. So as we talk about this, as I listen to you and listen to Melissa, and I wonder what wholehearted is as you, to think about it, to rinse the rice and to feel it.

[36:02]

At what point does the story, the narrative set in. You know, your mind starts, it's not just the sense, it's, oh, I'm feeling this, I'm feeling the individual grains, I'm feeling the coolness of the water. At what point are you no longer wholehearted? At what point are you no longer completely there, just there, as opposed to in the story, in the words? Yeah, well, you know, stories are wholehearted. can be wholehearted about your whoa look at that rice well look at me thinking about that rice yeah look at me thinking about thinking about that rice there you go you know it's like who is thinking anyway so yeah right so it's sort of that wholehearted engagement and curiosity about what's happening here what's going on here you know rather than you know i think i watched some of the kids in there i was just looking i call them kids they're not really kids they're in their 20s but

[37:05]

You know, I was looking at them sitting just during the ceremony just now. There's a lot of slumping going on there. And these are young people. And I'm like, you guys, we're going to work on this. You need to wholeheartedly lift your spine and get your head up there and breathe and let yourself have this opportunity right now. I mean, you have nothing else to do except sit up straight and... appreciate this ceremony that's happening and, and give your attention to this and so on. So I think the narrative is is swims in and out is kind of like a shoal of fish that comes in and goes around and catches your attention. And then they swim away and then you're back with the water just listening to the sound of the water. And so we come in and out of what ours our mind attending to and you know, from the yoga chart teaching that we've looked at over the years, you know, there is a sequence of how the mind does turn from a sensory event like you know you know my mind goes to the sound and then the next thing is i have a feeling before i even have a concept i have a feel like my attention goes to the sound i have a feeling about it either positive negative or neutral or you know what is that i don't like that you know i don't like that and then

[38:23]

If it's negative, I go a certain way. Maybe I go away from it. If it's positive, I might get toward it. So I have a feeling, and then from the feeling comes a notion, sometimes a great notion. I think that was Lisa clapping because the rice is ready, you know, and it's time for dinner. So there's a way in which my narrative, and maybe that's wrong. You know, my narrative can be completely wrong. That wasn't it at all, you know? So, and we see that, but we quickly let go of we were wrong. You know, we kind of go towards, oh, I think what it is, is this. I want to be, I'm going to be right. I'm going to get it right. So we're kind of messing around with the narrative a lot, quickly. So I feel as though part of what the invitation to pay attention is, is to see if you can catch those transit stations as you're changing trains, you know, from that train of thought to that train of thought and like, you know, Zazen is great for that. What did you start off thinking when you sat down, you know, about 15 minutes later?

[39:28]

How about by the end of Zazen? Any of that left? Where did you go? You know, boom, [...] boom. And coming to appreciate how the mind works and to really give it all its due and respect and also not believe it. You know, don't buy it. It's just like, it's just selling all the time. You know, like the newsboy. hear you hear you you know here comes the news it's mostly we want to read the news but we don't want to you know ingest it and and and take it as the truth and i really want to understand what's going on so i think your question is a good one but i think it's mostly an exploration for you to see where you shift from the cold water the rice the textures to the oh this is fun doing dogon's teaching and start noticing that you're reflecting on the Tenzo Kyokun. Some line from there pops in because it's associated with what you're doing.

[40:32]

That's normal. That's kind of a normal thing. I don't think there's any problems with that. I think it's mostly you either ignore it, you ignore what's going on and you're lost in the dream, or you're upright and wholeheartedly paying attention to what's going on. I think it's the shorthand, we call it awake. But it's always involved, words are always involved. Eventually, not always. There are breaks. There are very pleasant, like, sound is not a word, you know, the rain right now, it's raining, and I just shifted over to the sound of the rain. And then I said rain. Right. I had a moment there where it was really a soundscape. Okay. And that's really different than the word rain. It doesn't do much for me. The rain.

[41:33]

It's magic. It's mom. Well, thank you. You're welcome. Hi, Tim. Hi, Fu. Listening to Melissa talk about cooking and also watching her move around her kitchen. I had a flash of insight as a metaphor that my work as an engineer, I'm kind of like a super perfectionist. So in a sense, I'm a Tenzo, but I'm a Tenzo of machinery. And I'm picking the stones out of my designs all the time. That's a core thing that I do because you can do something beautiful, but it's full of stones.

[42:36]

That kind of worked very well. And I really thought it just really struck me. It is the same concept of practice, that aware practice and application of that concept. mindful awareness to work discipline, just like cooking. Yeah, totally. And I'm actually sitting in our kitchen. You can see my wife, she's moving around me and turning the lights on and off. And I'm actually sitting in the kitchen. Oh, see? Ah, there she is. Oh, what a little fixture. You heard me say that. It's also my remote workplace. So this is my kitchen and my kitchen for my work. So, yeah, I appreciate what this concept is really connected to all kinds of practice, working practice. Totally. It brings us home. We're all together in it.

[43:37]

It's unifying, you know. Yes, absolutely. Part of the gift of Dokken was like the kitchen is equivalent to the Zendo. They're not... don't think they're different don't think engineering is different than making soup you know climbing a tree or whatever we do it's like it's you connecting with you know the substance of your life and amazing that we can do that you know yes i'm i'm lucky yeah you are you are all right thank you food you're welcome nice to see you Hello, I think it's either Ying or Melissa. Hi, Ying. Hi, Ying. Hi. Hi. Yeah, thank you so much for the teaching, thinking about the whole cooking and housework, because I have never done so much housework in my life for the past few years since the pandemic started.

[44:39]

I've never done that much because I guess I just shifted a lot of cause and conditioning. And now I moved to Singapore. I get this huge pressure from everyone around me saying, hire a helper. They're like, you know, Singapore has this culture. You ship someone from Philippine or from, I don't know where, and then they live in your house, does everything for you. I somehow just couldn't, I couldn't do that. I think there's a lot of my conditioning, that I might be judgmental on that approach. It's just like, you know, it's complicated. I'm not above them, but I just cannot do it. It's just my conditioning. So I end up doing a lot of work because I have like three kids, you know, and I don't have a helper. So for me, a lot of my housework is done under time pressure. So I, you know, budget my time during the day when they're in school, you know, there's cleaning, there's cooking, I need to prepare. Before I pick them up from school and then I can work on their homework with them. So I can, you know, do the piano with them.

[45:40]

So I try to, you know, arrange my time. So there's a lot of time management and pressure. So when I'm working in the kitchen, I'm trying to think how Zen I am. No, I'm going to, I'm not. But when I thought about this wholehearted, maybe the wholeheartedness is to accepting, you know, whatever kind of struggle I'm going through and be mindful of that. it's like i feel like i'm i have this a little pain in myself when i was under pressure i'm getting used to that pain you know the feeling at the same time like going back to my work there's some pleasure in that too i don't know how to describe that it's definitely different from my mindset before i started practicing zen i had to do some housework you know there's a garage right so it's a little different but i'm working on that Good, good for you. I don't know if you heard Linda's lecture this morning, maybe you were probably sleeping. Yeah. But she was talking about she walked in the Camino, Linda Ruth.

[46:40]

And there was one of the days I'd actually heard about it because if the story preceded her return. And one of the days they were supposed to walk something like 14 miles, it was their big day, you know, it was a long way and she'd been conditioning herself and she's all primed for it. And so she did this really strenuous walk and she hit the 14 mile marker and it turned out they'd made a mistake. There was another three miles. And she said, that was the hard part. It wasn't the next three miles. She could actually do that. And it wasn't, you know, anything else other than, excuse me, you told me I was done. It was her torturing herself with this, you know, But that's not fair, you know, and all that. So I think there's so much mental energy that goes to the kind of thing you're experiencing and certainly I have as a caregiver for many years. I have a disabled partner and a disabled child and a disabled self. And I was really having to work through being the person who was taking care of everything.

[47:41]

And at some point, like you, it sort of became my job. I mean, that was my job and I got pretty good at it. You know, it's like, I got the groceries, I got the kids, I got, you know, kid. I got the things I was supposed to do. I, and it was kind of a pride, a kind of pride in that in a good way. Nobody else was noticing. It was just really my self, my own self satisfaction. Like, I'm doing a lot of stuff. And someday, my kid's 30 now, she doesn't need me to do anything for her. And, you know, things have really changed. But that period of time, I think, wasn't so different from what you're talking about. And somehow it's like, yeah, I did it. You know, I did it. I showed up. And I made a big effort. And nothing terrible happened. You know, nothing. I mean, they were safe. And the dinner got ready and things and so on and so forth. So there's something about having done that, that I think gives you a good feeling about your own character, you know?

[48:44]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, I did that. Yeah. So, but then you have a while to wait before you get to look back. Yeah, I just, you know, I get some judgment from people. I feel like I'm kind of... abnormal, not having a helper, you know, 24 hours. I guess I am also struggling with that kind of society judgment when I hang out with some parents. But I think I'm starting to settle that. Well, we had someone come in every other week. So it wasn't like they didn't live with us, but it was very helpful to have that basic cleaning done by these wonderful people who came in and it was worth every penny to have them come in and support me. Because I could maintain it, but to do the whole thing, you know, it was just way more than I would have done well. You know, it would have been not so good. So I do think there's a middle way. If you can find a middle way between the whole thing and something, that might help.

[49:47]

So I don't know if that's possible where you are, but it's an idea. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Thanks. Hi, Millicent. Hi, Fu. Hi, everyone. Fu, I think my question is probably in the realm of one, two, three. It's not a hundred and one, two, three. But I'm thinking of, oh, just walking past, thinking of yin. There's this wonderful person in my life called Mandy, and she's just walked past and she's going to mow the weeds. And I think about Mandy a lot, actually. She does the real stuff while I sit here talking about one, two, three. But I'll get on with it. I'm thinking of the monk who, in the conversation with Dongshan, ended up throwing the rice and the sand and everything down.

[50:53]

on the floor, presumably, in response to the to and fro in the conversation in that story, what if he threw it with complete wholeheartedness, with everything in him chucking the sand and the rice on the floor? He did that. I think that was the... You know, he went on to become a well-known teacher. So I think he was... wholehearted and expressing some truth, like the ultimate truth. But that's not the emphasis in Soto Zen is not on the ultimate truth. It's on relative truth. It's on caring for individual objects and individuals and talk about Soto Zen is like rice farmers, you take care of each grain of rice. And so Renzi according to Soto, is more like a general exhorting the troops to battle. It's like, okay, everyone go.

[51:53]

So there's a really different sense of what's the mission here? Are we going to conquer the delusions and destroy, get the sand out of here forever? Are we going to be free of them? And how do we express that? Well, just knock over the bucket. Don't even bother to sort the rice in the sand. Be free. It's interesting that a lot of koans involving women, there's a wonderful collection of women koans that Joan Sutherland did, who's also a Rinzai teacher in the Diamond Sangha lineage. And she made a, not a habit, but she collected women's koans. That was very important to her and to all of us. But she said one of the interesting things about the women's koans, almost always when the woman wakes up, She knocks over the rice bucket. And why? Because she's in the kitchen. So that's what's there. She's in the kitchen.

[52:54]

So she knocks over the pot and she knocks over the thing. So there's a way in which it's situational too. Like your Mandy, you know, she's out there doing the thing. You're in here doing your thing. And they're both the same. They're of equal value, right? You're not higher, you're lower. They're really the same. And, you know, and we need both of them. We need the weaver and we need the weed whacker. And, you know, we need everything to be careful. Yes. Yes. So, yes. So, thank you. I can see that the gesture of... chucking over the whole lot as a gesture towards the absolute and that that's not the primary focus and in fact I actually do value not so much rice but one of my staples is oatmeal and I pick up each bit if it scatters because I think that grain actually grew and did its job and came to fruition and it should be

[54:04]

You know, it should be part of the team. Part of the team. So the difference in that beautiful verse that you recited for us about the one, two, threes and saying you can't rely on them. What you can rely on is I think it was an image of the moon sinking into the water or something. Dark sea. So when we see that image, That is in the realm of every day. That's not the realm of one, two, three, but it's still in the realm of relative experience. It's not a finger pointing to the absolute. Well, would say that these words the moon sets into the dark sea is not the moon sets setting into the dark sea so we're still fingers pointing at fingers pointing at the moon setting into the dark sea is as you know really different than just glancing out your window and seeing mandy that's not mandy what you saw there is not mandy i mean

[55:28]

I'm saying Mandy over and over again, I don't even I didn't see her. But I have a way of talking about her and admiring her thanks to you. But that's not her. And that's, you know, and that's she she's not that she is, whatever you saw out the window walking by is beyond comprehension. Any words say are too small. Any words we say are too small to contain what actually is appearing. Right. So the poetry is pointing to the experiential okay you're right about that but it's not and it's its own kind of experience poetry is an experience too words are experiences they're not like out of reality they're really important and we love them and but we confuse them with the object with the experiential it's it's trying to separate the sound from the right it's like is this something i can eat or is this something that needs to go back into this into the into the ground you know to grow more more rice which of these things i need to have good sense about what i can eat and what i need to discard so you know we're called on to discriminate and to discern you know yes

[56:47]

I'm not saying that the sand is inferior to the rice. It's just not helpful for our digestion. Not very. So the flash of seeing Mandy walk past, that real experience, that is the moon and then I talk about it and that's not, it's not Mandy. That's just fingers. Now you're using your fingers to point at the moon that's gone. She's still walking by. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank Mandy. I thank her every time she turns. We all need Mandy. Thank you so much. Gosh, what a wow. That's fantastic. Thank you. Welcome. Good.

[57:47]

That's what we're after. Fantastic. All right, everybody. It's been just wonderful to see you and be with you, as always. And I'm going to go away. And I will look forward to seeing you next week. I will do a last little bit of Dogen. I have one more thing I would really like to share from the Tenzo Kyokun. And also, I found that there's a book on the Uji that Shinshu Roberts, who's one of our... graduate priests from Zen Center has written has gotten very nice acclaim. I was reading all of the commentary comments on the on the book. So if it's something interests you, you want to do a little more looking into Uji, I'm going to get it myself. I won't have much time to read. But I would recommend that you possibly get it. It's called time being, which is what Uji means. So we have another two weeks before we'll start looking at Uji. So if that is something that interests you, that's an option. Okay, so thank you all very much. If you'd like to, the thing you do, unmute, then we can say goodbye.

[58:49]

Good night, everyone. Thank you, everyone. Good night, everyone. Thank you. Good night.

[58:58]

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