This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. I was thinking the other day, I don't think it's not happening. Can you hear me now? Is this still on? This is on, well that's good. What's that about? Oh, it's you, okay. Okay, I was thinking the other day, I had this thought that I think that human beings are probably the only beings that imagine or think, actually think that, I should be different than I am right now.

[01:09]

You know, like I think that various animals feel things and they might even feel sad about their current situation, but I never, and of course I don't know, maybe they're secretly thinking, I should be bigger. But they don't give that impression. And people give that impression all the time. In fact, we say it, and I think deeply believe it. I should be different than I am. We had a cat at Jamesburg once, a very lively cat, that somehow got injured. And suddenly, we don't know what happened to him, but his back leg stopped working. And he went from being just the most lively cat to just laying there. not complaining, just seemingly like totally accepting that he had this complete now other life. And he laid there for a couple of days and then he started, luckily in this case, it could have happened differently, but in this case he started doing yoga poses.

[02:20]

Stretching out his back legs and after a little bit longer he was fine again. But there was no sense of Oh, my. Oh, me. Oh, my. How did that happen? But for us, there's this, like, it's so real, you know, like, I should be different. Right? You know, especially if we're not feeling so good for either about ourselves or about our situation. It's like it's so close that... just figure out what it is, where the button to push is. I could make this better world. I think, you know, and we carry that, of course, into everything we do. We certainly carry it into practice. In fact, for most of us, it probably was part of why we started to practice was to try to, you know, make our life or ourselves better.

[03:27]

We were trying to have less suffering, a quite honorable goal, intention, but the way that we go at it is, how can I make this happen? What can I do? Maybe if I Siddh Sazen, I will be enlightened and everything will be better. Either I won't get so upset or I'll be able to look at things and be calm when I see them or be able to say the turning phrase that will make everyone behave better toward me. Some way comes down to basically controlling everything. We might start with something small like controlling my anger or controlling my appetite or you know but essentially it has to get pretty big it's like I want to be in control of the whole world if we you know if we really look at sort of what what do I need to be truly happy control I mean we don't usually think of it that way especially if we're

[04:51]

We haven't ever... Who's saying that recently? Does anyone remember? Were they in a conversation with me today or yesterday where we were talking about how practice is really about controlling everything? Do any of you remember that conversation? Maybe I dreamed it. I was... This may be a little bit off track, but I can probably connect it in some way. Sometimes as you get older, controlling things gets harder. And I went to the bathhouse today. I mean, I've been to this bathhouse many, many, many times. And it's true that in the old bathhouse, the way that you turn the water off and on was a lot simpler. You may have noticed that these... These knobs are sort of confusing, right? But I figured that out several years ago.

[05:52]

How to turn them on and I know which handle changes the temperature and which one turns them on. And I walked in there today. I wasn't here yesterday, so I had a whole day to forget. And I went in there and I turned on the shower and nothing happened. So I went to another one and I turned it on and nothing happened. And I went to all four of them. And then I went into the other little room and nothing happened there. And there were people walking around wet. There were people with wet hair and the floor was wet and I thought it must have just gone off. I have to go find Elliot. But luckily, a woman who arrived this summer and has been here for a couple of months came in. I said, the water's off. She said, really? And she walked over and turned on the shower. I was like, oh no. I completely got confused about how to turn on the shower in my own home, so to speak.

[06:56]

Sure enough, wrong hand, right movement, wrong hand. So anyway, that was a time when the universe actually spoke to me about how out of control things really are. How much one would have to control like your own memory. Like where did that knowledge go? It's right here in my hand. It's just that the hands got confused with the other hand. So you know every week we recite the genjo kohan here during morning service and there is a a verse in it that talks about this, I think. The way we say it is, to carry yourself forward and experience myriad things is delusion. That myriad things come forth and experience themselves is awakening. To carry yourself forward and experience myriad things is delusion.

[07:58]

Showaka Okamura, who's a professor, Soto Zen Buddhist teacher in his group is in Bloomington, Ohio, I think. No? Where? Bloomington, Indiana. Indiana? Really? You sure? No. Okay, sorry. If anyone's listening to this tape, my friends who live there, I apologize. Anyway, he translates it even more Shockingly, really. Conveying oneself toward all things to carry out practice enlightenment. Sounds like a good thing, right? Conveying oneself toward all things to carry out practice enlightenment is delusion. All things coming and carrying out practice enlightenment through the self is realization. So this points to a really fundamental confusion that we have, where we, I think, deeply feel like my job is to whatever, be a good person, make a good life.

[09:14]

Maybe underneath that somewhere is make a safe life for me, and that would be it'd be good to be of benefit to all beings, or maybe being of benefit to all beings has actually risen to the top of our intentions, and really from the bottom of our heart, we want to help. We want to be of benefit. But then we have this idea that's deeply in there that that means if I want to do it, I have to figure out how to do it. I have to, and some of us here have settled for the time being at least, maybe some of us for this whole lifetime on this method of sitting zazen and, you know, becoming a Buddha. However we think about that, what happens when we're sitting in zazen, how do we become of more benefit? But Dogen, who's the founder of this school, says that this idea we have of

[10:20]

going forward, you know, here I am, here's me, now I'm going forward into the world to carry out practice enlightenment. I may not quite know what it is yet, but I'm working on it. That's my intention. Go forth and carry forth practice enlightenment. It is delusion. It is confusion about who am I? You know, it's Okamura says that it's a deeply embedded confusion that delusion is actually a kind of state of mind that comes from the way our consciousness functions. That we have a consciousness that experiences ourself as a separate self. It actually experiences us that way. So it's not just like an idea we got, we actually have this experience of here's me, here's the table, there's you, separate.

[11:24]

And over here is me and my agency, my intention, my ability to carry myself forward and impact you. That things come forth and experience, let's see, all things coming and carrying out practice enlightenment through the self is realization. So it's possible to get to the place where we actually experience the self as arising because of or from all things. that there is something here, but it isn't separate, and it's changing all the time based on everything.

[12:25]

So sometimes we can see that this happens, and we actually experience it, like something happens, someone smiles at us, or someone speaks harshly to us, or someone serves us peas for dinner, and we can actually experience the change in ourself. that seems very connected to these myriad objects coming forth, myriad peas appearing in front of you, and suddenly you feel joy or blah. So, you know, we've had this experience. We've experienced how responsive we are, you know, how we're moving around in this world of effective things and responding to them but to actually like sort of rest in that experience like here's the self and here are myriad things coming forth and making a new self experiencing themselves through this self because we're one

[13:44]

big thing happening is, it's a different, you know, it's a, I don't know what, an expanded experience of that interrelatedness. I mean, it doesn't mean that we don't do anything. We definitely do things. As I've said before, passiveness is actually not an option. We are active beings. We are functioning all the time. To not do something is to do something. There's no option for inactivity, passivity. We can repress ourselves. We can be afraid to act. We can have some idea that not acting is better and and hold down our actions, but even when we do that, we're not actually told, you know, to want to say something and not say something is a little different than not wanting to say something.

[14:54]

And both are actually doing something. Both are having an input into the situation. To not say something has some impact. To want to say something and not say something has some impact, which it's hard to measure what the difference is, but experience of it is different and probably the effect of it is somewhat different too so so how to embody this somewhat subtle but also extremely crucial difference between going forth with the best of intentions to practice enlightenment with beans rather than noticing that practice enlightenment is happening between beings. This is an alive thing that's happening and we're part of it. We're already part of it. There's no, like, well, maybe I'll just sit over here and not do that.

[15:57]

Actually, it's happening. How to make that change is actually not something we can do because trying to do it is already... carrying the self forward it's already acting on our delusion so that's why we I mean I'm sure there are other ways of doing this too there are plenty of practices that are wonderful practices but I only happen to know at all this one so I think that's why we I do we do this somewhat confusing practice you know of sit down And sit still for a while. Doing what again? You know, trying to follow your breath or trying to stay awake or, you know, trying to, like, you know, not inviting your thoughts to tea as Suzuki Roshi said once, you know. Not stopping your thoughts but not believing your thoughts.

[17:02]

And as any of us who have done that know, you can't actually do it. I mean, there may be some people, maybe some people in this room who can actually count their breath from one to 10 and go back to one again for the whole period. Fine, if you can do that, that's great. Please try to do it kindly to yourself. Don't, because the effort that you put into doing that, if it's a kind of mean, controlling effort, It's actually not the effort of living in accord with the universe as it's presenting itself, which for most of us means thoughts arise. You know, they come from somewhere. But where? Who knows? I mean, sometimes we know, but a lot of the times they pop in from somewhere. And to let them do that and don't...

[18:06]

Totally believe them. Believe them as thoughts or as feelings. Here is a feeling. Does this feeling mean what I think it means? About what they were thinking or doing or about me? To let a feeling be a feeling that comes from somewhere and goes to somewhere, to let a thought be a thought is actually training in things coming forward and practicing, becoming, being, practice enlightenment in this self, in this self. And so it's training in that, it's cultivating that, and it's increasing the courage or confidence that that

[19:06]

is actually a functioning thing. It's like increasing our capacity to stand to be this being so that we can start to notice, is that okay to do? Is it okay to be this being? Is it okay? Okay is, you know, a word that we use, but it's, you know, it's, when it's used in, is it okay to be me? It's a kind of deep thing. It's not just like, is it okay? It's like, because I think this is really one of our biggest questions. Is it okay to be me in the world? Is it okay that this being exists the way she, he, they, them are right now? And right now. And right now, that's a kind of ongoing question we have that we're always sort of searching for the answer to, and we make up answers all the time.

[20:15]

I'm like, well, at least I'm better than that person. I don't know if I'm okay, but I know I'm better than them. Or, oh my gosh, look at them. Oh, I could never do that. That would be... And we're sort of walking around gauging that Maybe you're not, but I've noticed that I am. I'm like, what do they think about me? What do they think about me? They're smiling. Does that have to do with me? They're frowning. There was another thought that I had, which hopefully I can tie in. You know, there's a way that the, like who I am right now is not who I will be soon.

[21:22]

Like, you know, the person who knew how to turn on the shower, where did she go? I don't know. I hope she's come back. And that the one who doesn't know how to turn on the shower has gone away for a while. One way that, again, Shoah Koakramur describes this is babies negate babyhood. We have a baby here, a Tassahara, now Luke. I have a granddaughter who's almost the same age as Luke, and watching them, watching baby is so interesting. They, at a certain point, I mean, all along, but it's so evident when they get that urge to stand up. You know, it's like, it's like their legs just like, like they're just trying to stand all the time. I mean, I guess not when they're sleeping, but there's, you know, you give them your fingers and they're like, stand up. You just, you just like, they're their little hands and they sort of reach for your fingers and then they're like standing up.

[22:27]

They can't stand up, right? You have to hold onto them, but it's like their legs want to stand. It's just this inside thing that's happening where they're, like, moving toward walking. And they continue to move that way, you know, unless they're sick or something, or something's wrong with them, they continue to move that way until they are, you know, running and walking. When we had a lot of kids here years ago, when my kids were young, and Norman and Kathy Fishers, twin boys were here, and they started walking and then running, and watching them run through Tatsahara. They would run through Tatsahara, kind of looking, I think it was Aaron that I saw doing this, maybe Noah didn't do it, I don't know. He was running through Tassajara, looking at his legs as he was running. It was like this vast enjoyment of what he could do, what his legs could do.

[23:31]

So that non-babiness, that toddler-ness, is inside a baby becoming activated. You know, as the baby gets old enough, as its muscles get strong enough or whatever is going on in there, you know, some force of nature that's inside a baby that leads the baby to stand and then walk and then run and then eventually become us. So there are forces in us, too, like the force itself. of whatever it was that made me forget how to turn on the shower, you know, and that eventually is going to do worse damage. So there's this, things coming forward is not just coming forward from the outside, it's coming forward from the inside, not under our control.

[24:35]

You know, we aren't happening because we decided to happen. We're part of a happening thing that's really complex. you know, has all kinds of suffering happening in it that, yes, we do want to be a beneficial part of. And that's a part. That wanting to be a beneficial part is one of those forces that's happening and that given space actually looms. You know, we tend to cover up our intentioned to be a beneficial force with all of our ideas about what that would mean and what has to happen and change with that. It doesn't stop it from happening necessarily, just like it doesn't stop us from getting older and everything else that we do. But it does cloud it.

[25:35]

It does complicate it. It's like, here are all my thoughts, feelings, plans, frustrations about things are not the way they should be yet and how can I get them there which they're okay they're actually part of it it's not like they're foreign objects you know they didn't come from outer space or even if they did if any of our stuff you know we're like moon rocks falling to earth now they're part of the universe and they're they're a functioning part but It would be okay if we had a few less of them. So something like sitting still and finding out that your life has actually gone on in spite of the fact that you've been sitting there for 40 minutes not making it work. Something about that, it goes into us.

[26:37]

Something in us gains some courage from that, gains some faith, some trust. that maybe it is okay that there's a me, just exactly this me in the universe. That's what I think. What do you think? Or do you have any, have I said anything terribly confusing that you can help me clear up? Does anyone have anything they'd like to say or ask? give you a minute oh I can tell you a poem very short poem which I think I was related to this this was a poem by Harry Roberts and it was a poem that was an answer to a question that his teacher Yurok Indian asked him his teacher asked him what is seafoam

[27:46]

and he said, sea foam is a bit of water captured by the wind. Sea foam is a bit of wind captured by the water. Sea foam is a bit of wind, a bit of water captured by the wind. Sea foam is a bit of wind captured by the water. This mutual creating sea foam. And we are kind of all of those things. You know, we're the water, we're the wind, we're the foam. It's happening. Happening all together. Okay, you have one more chance to say something. Yes, Francis. So, I don't know where the question is in here, but it seems like

[28:50]

It seems like I am an observer that thinks it's controlling and actively... Yes. Yeah, so it seems like, it almost seems like I'm a sea foam that's just sea foaming stuck with everything else, but I'm confused. And I think I'm... In charge here, or should be. Yeah. So am I just an observer? Am I just watching the show with a little bit of that subtle, like, oh, I'm an independent self. So I think my role in the show is, I think I'm writing the lines to the play, but really... As opposed to what? Are you just, no, you're not just an observer, you're an active part. And we can experience things and think about them. all that's fine.

[29:55]

It's the part where we feel like I need to be in charge of some part of this. You know, like, I mean, we usually don't think I need to be in charge of the whole universe, but we do usually think I need to be in charge of, you know, it varies depending on what's going on. I need to be in charge of my own feelings or... And, again, it's not that we... that we don't have any agency, I don't think. I think we have some agency, although some teachers say that we don't actually make any decisions. And to tell you the truth, I don't actually know. It's something that I've really watched a lot because I've had a hard time making decisions in my life. haven't been able to get right down to it. Often if I'm working on a decision, working on a decision, working on a decision, somehow the moment when it gets decided gets by me.

[31:00]

And that one, when I think about it later, it's like, oh, that one happened. And by that time, I was busy worrying about something else, I guess. So now I really try to make many, many fewer decisions. Like, I think I spent a lot of time worrying about decisions that was just like wasted time. Which is related, I think, to what you're saying, right? Of this observer who looks at my life and says, aha, this has got to be decided out there. When maybe it's just going to unfold. Not without my participation. You know, if it's my life. I'm doing things all the time that affect which way it's going to unfold. Yes, Cole? So, Suzuki Roshi talks about being the boss of everything.

[32:06]

Yeah. Did you say a little more? Are you arguing with me? Suzuki Roshi. Yeah. Yeah, well, I think we could take that tactic and do a whole other lecture about being the boss of everything, how we are, I mean, I have to say that right, because you just said Suzuki Roshi said it. So to do that lecture, I'd have to think about it for a while. And maybe I wouldn't be able to. So let me see if I can say anything. Not necessarily. That might be somebody else's lecture to give. Being the boss of everything. Well, certainly I think we are an active, maybe this was something about what he meant, that we don't, there isn't any passive place. It's like, whatever I'm interacting with, I am interacting with it.

[33:11]

If, you know, being the boss of it... maybe if you're a boss you already know this, doesn't really mean you can control it. You're just like fully engaged with it. That's what I would think it would mean. It's like fully engaged with it, which means you're fully engaged with yourself as that relationship is happening. it's time to stop thank you all very much thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center our Dharma talks are offered free of charge and this is made possible by the donations we receive your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma for more information visit sfcc.org and click giving

[34:11]

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