An unsurpassed, penetrating and perfect dharma is rarely met with, even in a hundred thousand million kalpas. Having it to see and listen to, to remember and accept, I vow to taste the truth of the Tathagata's words. Good morning, everyone, and to the Sangha in Rome, Buona sera. We're joined today by Dario Doshin Girolami's group, who are about to start a seven-day session. So welcome to all of you. I...

[01:09]

wanted to say a few words, some things that are on my mind, wanting to bring up the Vimalakirti Sutra, which we've been studying in a class for the month of July. So I'll be bringing up the Vimalakirti Sutra again today. Also, I you know, Vimalakirti taught while he was sick, while he was manifesting this illness. And I can't help but bring up how we again are finding ourselves all over the world in a surge with the Delta variant. And, you know... Thousands and thousands of people all over the world becoming ill, dying.

[02:16]

It's so sad. It's so sad. And also with those who are fully vaccinated with this knowledge that there can be passing, transmitting the virus when you don't feel anything yourself. Anyway. So I wish you all to be safe and protected and healthy. Get vaccinated if you haven't been supporting other beings by doing so. So I just wanted to mention that. And also this will resonate, I think, reverberate with Vimalakirti and his illness and what he talks about. Also, just thinking about what's going on in the world, the Olympics.

[03:19]

I don't know if people are following the Olympics or not. I don't have a TV, but I do have internet and watch these amazing beings doing amazing things. For example, An Italian man, Marcel Jacobs, is now the fastest man in the world running the 100-meter race. And other people who were trying to qualify that race, one person lost by a thousandth of a second. A thousandth of a second. It's like... How fast is that? But this is this other realm, this world of athletes, kind of magical even, that these are the timekeeping events, a thousandth of a second.

[04:20]

So this also was resonating with me for the Vimalakirti Sutra because Vimalakirti in this amazing sutra is a magician and trickster and brings other realms to help teach, brings beings into other realms to help teach. The first of the month at Green Gulch Farm for years, years and years, you know, we're about to celebrate our 50th anniversary. Next June, 2022, Green Gulch Farm as Green Gulch Farm on this land will be 50 years. And for, I don't know, 47 of those years, 45 of those years, we had the first of the month. The first Sunday of the month was kids lecture where young people

[05:30]

if their parents wanted them to, could bring them to the beginning of the Dharma talk. And that would be, especially for them, about 10 minutes or so. And then they'd leave to go to the garden for a program. So this being the 1st of August, and I love giving, I used to enjoy very much giving the kids talk. I thought I would offer, today, a Jataka tale that I found very, touched my heart. So Jataka tales are, the word Jataka means birth, and they're supposedly teachings, tales, stories of when the Buddha, Shakyamuni Buddha was a bodhisattva, before he became Shakyamuni Buddha.

[06:31]

So it's about other lives that he lived as a Bodhisattva before being Buddha. And these other lives take, you know, human beings, animals, insects, all sorts of things. And these teaching stories, you know, one can understand them if you wish, as stories of past lives of the Buddha. There's also a way of approaching them or meeting them as teaching stories that resonate and share with myths and folklore from around the world, actually. So this one struck me. They're very old. They're in the Pali Canon, and they come from as old as fourth century history. BCE, before the Common Era. So very early.

[07:32]

And then others were added later. So they're quite early teachings. And they're beloved, well-known, and are often accessible. The teaching is accessible to children of all ages. So this one touched me partially because in the morning when I come back, from Zazen, and also in the evening, I see quail, many, many quail. Green Gulch is home to many, many quail. And in the springtime and this time of year, there's little tiny baby quail that are running as fast. If you've ever seen a quail run, it runs. The upper body doesn't seem to be moving very much, and the feet are going so fast. And they almost like flow over the ground in groups. And the little ones go underneath things and disappear.

[08:36]

So they're very fun to watch. They're delightful. And their sounds are wonderful. So this Jataka tail is called the baby quail who could not fly away. Once upon a time, A long time ago, the Buddha Shakyamuni was born as a tiny baby quail. And he, although he had feet and wings, he was still too young to be able to fly or to do that running that I just described. So he was just, he couldn't walk or fly. He was just still in the nest. And his loving parents fed him and brought him food and took care of him in the nest. Well, in that part of the world, as in so many parts of the world, right here where I'm living and maybe where you're living too, there were many forest fires that would happen at a certain time of the year.

[09:52]

A fire broke out. A forest fire did happen right there. And at the first smell of the smoke, all the birds in that area living in those trees and flew far away. Soon as they smelled the smoke, as did many other animals. And they were able to fly away. And as the fire spread, it got closer and closer to the tree. where the nest of the baby quail was. And his parents remained with him to protect him as best they could because they couldn't carry him. They couldn't run with him. They couldn't bring him out of the fire. And the fire got closer and closer. And finally, they too had to fly away in order that they all didn't perish. So all the trees, big and small, were burning and crackling with a loud noise.

[11:03]

And the little one, the baby quail, saw that everything was being destroyed by fire and that it raged out of control and he could do nothing to save himself. And at that moment, His mind was overwhelmed by a feeling of helplessness, vulnerability, powerlessness. And then it occurred to him, the baby quill, this thought. My parents loved me very much. Unselfishly, they built a nest for me and fed me without greed. When the fire came, They remained with me until the last moment. All the other birds who could flew away long before they did. So great was their loving kindness. This loving kindness of my parents that they stayed and risked their lives, but still they were helpless to save me.

[12:14]

Since they could not carry me, they were forced to fly away alone. I thank them wherever they are for loving me so. I hope with all my heart that they will be safe and well and happy. Now I am all alone. There's no one I can go to for help. I have wings, but I cannot fly. And I have feet, but I can't run away. But still, can think, all I have left is to use my mind, a mind that remains unstained, pure. The only beings I have known in my short life were my parents, and my mind has been filled with loving kindness towards them. I've done nothing unwholesome to anyone.

[13:19]

I'm filled with newborn innocent truthfulness. Then an amazing miracle took place. This innocent truthfulness grew and grew until it became larger than a little baby quail. The knowledge of truth spread. beyond that one lifetime. And many previous births were known by the little quail. And in one of these births, he remembered that he had met a Buddha at one time, a fully enlightened knower of the truth, who had the power of truth. and the power of wholesomeness and the power of compassion.

[14:21]

He had met this Buddha many, many years ago and practiced with him. And that remembrance came back to him. And the reality of that awakened one in his life came forth. And that great being that within this tiny baby bird thought, may this very young, innocent truthfulness be united with the ancient purity of wholesomeness and the power of truth. May all the birds and other beings who are still trapped by the fire be saved and may this spot be safe from fire for a million years. And so it was. So that's the end of the Janaka tale. And my understanding of this, there's often a moral to these stories, which is truth, wholesomeness, and compassion can save the world.

[15:36]

That's the teaching of this Janaka tale about the baby quail. And this baby quail, united within his own teeny body, supposedly helpless and powerless, united the oldest ancient teachings of compassion and care and being truthful with his own new baby bodhisattva, baby quail. understanding of compassion and loving kindness, which he had already generated and sent out for his parents and the other animals, even when he was facing his own death. So this uniting of the baby bodhisattvas spark of new entry into the practices of compassion and

[16:37]

This uniting with the universal, the particular and the universal uniting in this baby quail. And then this miracle occurred. This is a teaching story. But this miracle, when we understand the truth of our lives and saving the world, what does that mean exactly? What is that teaching? Kind of flows right into our teaching of Vimalakirti. And many of you perhaps have studied the Sutra of Vimalakirti. And he also performs miracles of various kinds called his way of liberating beings because that's what he's interested in doing. The Vimalakirti Sutra is a Mahayana Sutra. And it's...

[17:42]

comes from around 100, before the Common Era, and between 100 BCE and 100 Common Era. And it's one of these sutras that is beloved, especially in East Asia, China, and Japan. It was written in Sanskrit and translated into Chinese and then Japanese from the Sanskrit. And just... Pretty recently, the Sanskrit, we only had it in translation, but the Sanskrit was found in Tibet. So this Vimalakirti is the reason I think people love it so is there's a lot of humor in it, which you often don't find in sutras where there's joking and teasing. Certain people are especially used as a way to show the folly of human beings and attached views, etc.

[18:55]

So there's definitely a lot of humor, which you usually don't find. And there's also, Vimalakirti was a layman who... who was really an emanation. He was a bodhisattva, but he spoke like a Buddha, and he was with human beings in whatever state they were in. He was very rich, but he spent time with poor people, and he went into the gambling halls, and he went into sports events. He would have gone to the Olympics. He went to all these different places in order to teach beings because he went into schools to teach children. He had many people in his house, but he didn't use them for his own purposes other than liberating them and teaching them.

[20:05]

And it didn't matter who you were. If you were a disciple of the Buddha, he didn't refrain from teaching you if he saw you needed teaching. So in the Vimalakirti Sutra, the kind of conceit or the overall setting is that Vimalakirti is ill. He's become ill. And the reason he's become ill, how he talks about it, is because all beings are ill and suffering. And so he manifests illness to feel what other people feel and to be able to teach them more skillfully by sharing with them the fact that he knows what they feel, what they're going through. So that is his purpose for being ill. And because he was beloved in the town where he lived by Shali in India,

[21:10]

Many, many people came to visit him while he was ill, and he taught them. This was a chance to teach them. And the sutra has profound teachings about shunyata, emptiness, that is done. When I say profound, I mean that the words that are used are... difficult to understand. His main way of teaching is to reconcile the opposites. Now, someone might say, what do we mean by reconciling the opposites? Well, I would say that we think in dualistic terms. Sickness and health, for example. pleasure and pain, praise and blame, good and bad, good reputation, bad reputation, light and dark, rich and poor.

[22:20]

And one might say, well, there is rich and poor. It's as plain as day. And we have this, what shall I say, attachment to seeing things the way that we see them. And this teaching does not deny the reality of the relative world, our everyday life. It's not saying that those things don't exist. That would be a big mistake in the teachings of emptiness and a kind of nihilism, however that's pronounced. So the teachings of emptiness don't negate anything in the relative world, but it does understand each thing in the relative world, illness, health, good reputation, bad reputation, all the opposites, all the dualisms, as not having a substantial, separate,

[23:33]

This is this very difficult teaching. Rich and poor exist. This conception of rich and poor exist. Because there is rich, there are poor. If there were only one thing, we wouldn't say, oh, they're rich and they're poor. They dependently co-arise. rich and poor, high and low, old and young. It's relative. What's old, what I thought was old when I was, you know, 25 is, you know, totally dependent on that point of view, where I stood, what my experiences have been and so forth. And now at an older age, I have a different sense of what's old and what's young.

[24:35]

So it's all things are like that. They don't exist as separate, solid substrata that really exist in that way. So all of these teachings are not negating the relative things, but they just want us to understand that they're not, they don't have an ultimate existence. Their existence is empty. of separate self, empty of solidness and full of dependently co-arisen interdependent-ness. So Vimalakirti is playing with and using language to unstick us from our very common, very difficult to unstick, points of view, dualistic points of view, and point us to and express to us the non-dual understanding, the non-dual understanding, not one, not two, where it's both and.

[25:48]

We exist as separate individuals with driver's licenses and, you know, particular ways that we look, etc. And that very being comes forth and is the way we are and appears out of the interdependent arising of all things. This is very difficult teachings, I think, really difficult teachings too. We can grasp it intellectually often, but how do we realize these teachings? Because they actually can't be grasped with their intellectual mind or conceptually. They're talked about as inconceivable. Inconceivable liberation is one of the chapters in the Vimalakirti Sutra. So Vimalakirti is ill and is visited at first very reluctantly

[26:56]

Nobody wants to visit him that the Buddha asks. But Manjushri, the Bodhisattva of great wisdom, says, well, I'll visit him, even though it's difficult because he's so eloquent and it's hard to understand the teachings. And he also points to the ways in which I'm attached and so forth. So Vimalakirti is sitting and everybody wants to come with Manjushri. to visit Vimalakirti because they want to hear the conversation between Manjushri, the bodhisattva of wisdom, and this lay person, lay follower of the Buddha who speaks so eloquently. And Manjushri inquires about his health because Vimalakirti is ill. Manjushri says, householder, how should a bodhisattva console another bodhisattva Who's sick? How do we help one another?

[27:59]

Many of you, some of you are sick right now, what you would call sick. Others know of people who are sick, have visited people who are sick, or maybe haven't been allowed to. How do we console each other, bring consolation? And Vimalakirti says, Basically, he says many things. Actually, I hope some of you will be inspired to pick up this sutra. He says many things about, you know, but don't tell them to do this and that. Encourage them. This is one of the things he says of how to console. Encourage the people who are sick to have empathy and compassion for others who are also sick. And through one's own illness, remember the suffering of others.

[29:01]

On account of one's own sickness, remember, oh, yes, other people are ill as well. Other people are facing this and fearful and hopeless, you know, and despairing. And to... allow a feeling of compassion through one's own illness and sickness to arise, to meet and remember others. This is working with our own consciousness to work with the welfare of living beings. This is a practice that he's offering us. One of the many, many, many practices which I appreciated. And this, you know, consoling someone in this way and advising them or encouraging them to widen their understanding of compassion to include all the many beings.

[30:12]

Manjushri also asks, what is the elimination of sickness? And Vimalakirti answers, it's the elimination of egoism, meaning belief in separate self, I, me, and mine, self-clinging, attachment to self, and possessiveness, which I can relate to, hopefully all of us can relate to this quality of me first and number one and possessiveness about our stuff and our things and our position and so forth. He says the elimination of sickness, illness, which he's manifesting this illness for our sake.

[31:25]

To teach the elimination of this is the elimination of egotism and possessiveness. Then he says, what is the elimination of egoism and possessiveness? And he answers, it is the freedom from dualism. Freedom from that is also freedom from self-clinging. Then he says, well, what is freedom from dualism? And then he says something which I want to go into a little more. He says, freedom from dualism is the absence of involvement with either the external or the internal. This is Vimalakirti. Absence of involvement with the external or the internal.

[32:34]

This is freedom from dualism. This dualism, which is the cause of our suffering, you know, the cause of the deepest kind of suffering, which is our attachment to a self which is not real in the way we attach to it. Not that we don't take good care of ourself, have compassion for ourselves and for all beings. So this is another one of the main points of the Vyamala Kirti Sutra is if we see all beings as not having a substantial self, how can we generate love and compassion for them? These are some of Manjushri's questions. to Vimalakirti. If we have this understanding of this wisdom, transcendent wisdom, or the wisdom of the emptiness and the non-abiding self, how can we generate great love and compassion for these beings who don't really exist?

[33:44]

This is a theme of the Sutra. So the absence of involvement of internal and external things. I wanted to stay with that because Suzuki Roshi brings up the Vimalakirti Sutra in many years ago, actually, one of the earliest lectures in 1963. You know, all of his lectures are transcribed, or almost all. We've found some new ones, actually, some new tapes. In this particular Dharma talk, Suzuki Roshi brings up, actually, Chapter 7 in the Vimalakirti Sutra, where a goddess throws down...

[34:51]

heavenly flowers after hearing this wonderful Dharma discussion between Manjushri and Vimalakirti and a goddess who is very versed in the teachings and a bodhisattva lives in Vimalakirti's house and throws these celestial flowers down and they stick to the disciples of the Buddha who are still holding to dualistic thinking. and conceptual thinking, but they don't stick. These flowers don't stick to the bodhisattvas. They just, they let go of everything and they don't stick. This is a kind of visual image of the stickiness of having these fixed views about the way things are that are not based on reality, but are misunderstandings. So Suzuki Roshi brings this up, bringing up attachment. And he uses this as an example of when we discriminate and have discursive thinking and hold to things, hold to I'm right.

[36:07]

Not just this is my understanding is this. What do you say? This is how I'm thinking. I'm interested in your sense of it. You know, that kind of open, yes, this is my opinion, and I'm not tightly holding to it. And holding to I'm right, along with that, which often means you're wrong, right? Correct. People are holding to fixed views now in such a way that they can't powerful, incredible fixed views about conspiracy theories and microchips in vaccines and et cetera, et cetera, and are unable to, you know, even with loved ones and people they respect. So this holding to fixed views and tight conceptual, this, in the Vimalakirti, these flowers, celestial flowers stick,

[37:21]

stick to you. So how do we put together these opposites? If we're listening to this teaching of Vimalakirti that's talking about dualism as being one of the problems are not that we don't hold our conventional world and our reality and care for it. This is the same question about if there's nothing actually there, then how do we generate love if there's no beings there? Same with the conventional world. If the mistake is made, well, then nothing exists. That's a big mistake. No, things exist. but not in the way we think they do. And they need to be cared for thoroughly, completely with love.

[38:25]

So how do we put these two things together, these teachings, and reconcile the opposites, which Vimalakirti says? And Vimalakirti just said, freedom from dualism. is the absence of involvement with either the external or the internal. So Suzuki Roshi brings this up in terms of our zazen. This practice of our zazen in our own body puts together. We drop our dualistic thinking. Each thing arises. and flows away and is not held to in our practice of zazen. The first moment we have zazen instruction, we're told, you know, our posture points and sitting upright and then do not grab things.

[39:36]

Do not push anything away. Don't hold on to things. Allow things to come and go. Arise and vanish. sensations, thoughts, emotions, sounds, smells, all the all the psychophysical events, just upright sitting is just allow them to be without going after them and manipulating them, elaborating, grabbing or wanting to gain something and without pushing them away. and running and trying to get away. So Suzuki Roshi is saying, this is, I would say, Zazen instruction. This is from this lecture where he brings up Vimalakirti. When one keeps their pure mind on some object or movement, leaving its true nature to the object itself, the oneness of subject and object

[40:44]

subjective and objective occur. So we're clearly aware without trying to grab it, manipulate, or push away. Just clearly aware. And then he says, in our zazen, our mind must always be kept on our breathing. The breathing should not be too long or too short, heavy or light. It should be natural. We say our exhale does not come out of the world. And our inhale does not stay in the five skandhas. This way, when we sit, we become one with the whole world. Here, the great activity takes place.

[41:46]

The absolute independence comes true. So this is Suzuki Roshi describing our Zazen practice, resonating with Vimalakirti saying, you know, freedom from dualism, the absence of involvement with the external or the internal. Suzuki Roshi is saying the exhale doesn't come from outside and the inhale doesn't stay in the five skandhas, not involved in the myriad things. And this resonates with other teachers that we have with Bodhidharma's teacher, Hanyatara Dayosho. Hanyatara's teaching was This poor wayfarer, he was asked why he didn't recite scripture.

[42:49]

And he said, this poor wayfarer does not dwell in the realms of body and mind when breathing in, does not get involved in the myriad circumstances, the myriad things when breathing out. I always reiterate this scripture hundreds, thousands, millions of times, millions of scrolls, millions of scrolls of the sutra, breathing in. I don't dwell in the five skandhas, in body and mind, breathing out. I don't get involved. in the myriad things. This is the same, this is Suzuki Roshi, I feel teaching this same teaching.

[43:51]

And Bodhidharma, Hanyatara's disciple says, not breathing in, no coughing or sighing in the mind, getting all tangled up in our inner, what's going on and discursive thinking and so forth. and doesn't get involved in the myriad things when breathing out with a mind like a wall. This is a mind that practices like a wall, meaning upright and allowing things to happen, rain, sun, animals jumping on it, stones falling out, just remaining upright, not getting pushed around by that, not wishing it to be other, But as Bodhidharma's disciples said, I am always clearly aware, clearly aware. This is the liberation of the reconciliation of opposites.

[45:00]

This is the freedom of duality. And this is, this teaching has been given to us through many different forms, but through our Zazen practice, we need an intellectual understanding as well. And that's a Dharma door. And studying the sutras, studying the teachings until we become them, until we can draw on them as resources always. However, words do not reach it. This is inconceivable. We have to realize this for ourselves. And this teaching that's been passed on through the millennia to us of upright sitting is available to us, is offered freely.

[46:07]

offered freely out of love and compassion. The heart of these perfect wisdom teachings is love and compassion. So, feeling the connection with the sutra and our teachers who we've been fortunate enough to be exposed to all the Buddhas and ancestors. And then as baby bodhisattvas, we can take up these teachings, just like the baby quail generated this thought of compassion for his parents and wishing for them to be safe and all the animals to be safe and connected with that spark, that little baby spark connected with The conflagration, the great fire of vow to live for the benefit of beings from all the Buddhas and ancestors, which is not separate, non-dual.

[47:26]

That tiny spark, our Bodhisattva beginner's mind, is non-dual from... fully awakened beings. That is the Buddha nature, the limited being and the limitless being, non-duality. Well, thank you very much for your attention this morning. And I'll close now with the dedication of the positive energy that we created together by listening and reflecting on the teaching. May our intention equally extend to every being and place with the true merit of Buddha's way.

[48:33]

Beings are numberless. I vow to save them. Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to become it. I want to thank everyone for joining us today. If you feel supported by the Dharma offerings of our temples, please consider supporting San Francisco Zen Center with a donation at this time. Any size is greatly appreciated, and a link will show in the chat window now with different ways to donate. We will also be taking a five-minute break before returning for Q&A. If anybody needs to sign off right now and would like to say goodbye, you may feel free to unmute yourself.

[49:36]

Thank you very much, Linda. You're welcome. Okay. Well, we'll see you back in just a few minutes. Yes, we'll come back at 1110. Welcome back, everyone.

[54:15]

We'll begin Q&A. To offer comments or questions, please click the reactions icon at the bottom of your Zoom window. In that panel, there's a raise hand button. If you're on an older version of Zoom, this feature is usually in the participants panel menu. You may also offer questions or comments through the chat window. And just to note, you'll be requested to unmute when called upon. And then later I will look for hands in people's video feeds to see if anyone has their hand up. There was a question in the chat, which I could perhaps, I don't know if the person didn't want that out and about.

[55:27]

I think it was sent to me. Just, they said, thank you for addressing COVID and the fires. How on a concrete level do you suggest we apply these teachings to our fear and worry about safety right now? It feels a bit abstract to me and I'm grappling with the very real fear and anxiety with the impending fires, et cetera. So thank you for that question. I understand this sense of that it can feel abstract. And I, yeah, I think the my sense of how do you there's the very real practical

[56:40]

issues of preparing for fire. Like we have our go bags packed with, you know, all the stuff to be able to be okay for a couple days, including, you know, energy bars and a change of clothes and gloves and masks and, you know, they're ready. And we're also, our... vaccination card, we've been suggested that we carry that with us too, and some money, right? So those go bags, they're packed, they're right in the living room, ready to grab if we need to. And at Green Gulch, we've had, you know, there's very practical things that one can do, have a plan, working with others in your neighborhood, et cetera, et cetera. So that all, that may not alleviate fear and anxiety, but it may, or the depth of the fear and anxiety, but that is something that can address it rather than ignoring it or let's hope that it doesn't come my way or to be ready.

[57:59]

And same with COVID, you know, practice all the things all the things that were being told about masking up again. You know, we had this brief respite where it was about two weeks maybe where I went into some stores, et cetera, et cetera. But now that feels unwise, you know, with the not knowing exactly and the breakthrough to fully vaccinated people. asymptomatically being able to transmit, and I have a grandson who can't receive the vaccine, so I'm not taking any chances. So there's very practical things, I think. And then underneath that, how do we work with our fear and anxiety about anything, really? There's these big things we're facing, and we also know that we have

[59:06]

Many kinds of fears. Human beings have fear of illness, death, bad reputation. These are the classic ones. Speaking in front of a group. And what's the fifth? Loss of mental faculties. We have fears about those. Yeah. So how are we living our life in such a way that we're clearly aware of our fears, meeting them, not running from them, not hiding from them, because that just makes things work. It worsens things, not running away from anything. Yeah. So thank you for that question in the chat. I see Salvi has his hand up. yes uh can you hear me yes thank you linda for your talk it raised many things and uh one of the main i have to get back to zazen uh i've been doing some restorative in yoga doing badukonasana on the bolster and everything and working with my mind but i think that uh being upright in meditation

[60:37]

It's not the same. So I will get back to it. Thank you. Also, I want to talk a little bit about the truth. I've been having problems. I'm talking from Chile right now, Santiago, Chile. And there are situations whereby there is an area of the south of Chile where the police cannot go into because there are people with narcos and that have control of the area. And there being police being shot and things. And there are some political forces that are sort of backing these people. And there are certain things they say that are not truth. I see the same thing happening in United States. I hear CNN and I hear that there's a big group of people spreading things that are not true that is hurting people and possibly some of them dying because of the spread of things that are not true.

[61:54]

So I feel a little bit that I'm getting a little bit like righteous And I don't want to get there, but I think that it's not good what is happening of some people saying some lies to support a group. For the last thing that I want to say is that in CNN, somebody very important said that in these days, it's more profitable to spread untrue things than... dealing with the truth, that it's more beneficial to spread untruths that is more profitable for those groups. So I'm having problems with the truth. And you mentioned truth in your lecture. And so that's it. That's my question. Yeah. You know, when I look at these kinds of situations and I try to say, I appreciated your saying that you get righteous or self-righteous and the risk for you, the danger for you of putting yourself above others or you know.

[63:25]

And so I appreciate that. you mentioning that and working with that because that can happen. However, we do see things if we're clearly aware and how do we, what I guard against for myself is I have thoughts like, how could somebody do that? And then I immediately go to the Dharma and the three poisons of greed hate, and delusion. Greed, hate, and delusion. For me, these kinds of things, lying, dissembling, making things up for one's own profit, if you boil it down, it will come to greed, hate, and delusion. Either you're so confused and mixed up that you actually believe it and pass it on because you believe it. That's total delusion and almost to the point of

[64:26]

mental illness, right, I think. Then we have greed, where, as you say, you can profit by this. Oh, if you manipulate this and say this and put this out on the internet, then you'll get back stuff, so based on greed. And then there's hate and bigotry, which is also mental illness, I would say, you know, can be. And this is not new. I mean, if you think of World War II and the amount of propaganda and this is age old. So I find it useful for myself to come back to greed, hate and delusion. This is our human life. These are the poisons. And what are the antidotes to greed, hate and delusion? You know, opposite of greed is generosity. The opposite of hatred is loving kindness and compassion.

[65:30]

The opposite of delusion. I don't even know about opposite. The practice that meets delusion is clearly aware. And can we do our practice thoroughly and where we can expose, uncover, show our understanding that's counter. There's got to be countermeasures. And that may be working with other groups that are working against that or supporting them with donations. But if we fall into greed, hate, and delusion ourselves, and then we just add to it, and people are less likely to listen to us if they feel, oh, they're just... self-righteous you know so I don't have to listen to them right so somehow how do we meet one another in all our all of us we all have delusion greed hate and delusion right not set ourselves above I think can be what shall I say more skillful yeah

[66:49]

I understand. Thank you, Linda. I'll work with Greed, Hate, and Delusion. Thank you. I see Nino. There you are. So many thanks. So many thanks, Linda, for sharing this wonderful Dharma talk also with us in Roma. And so beautiful to connect with San Francisco Zen Center again. So I've been deeply touched by your teaching at many, many levels. And I had the resonance with... So inspiring comment you made during the intensive with Tenshin Roshi, Reb, a couple of years ago in Green Gulch, when you mentioned the remedial skills of the Bodhisattva.

[68:06]

And so I was so touched and I thought how this can resonate with the Vimalakirti Sutra and... sometimes we can get, in some sense, trapped with our own limitations and maybe mistakes, and then we may have this stickiness in the form of judgment toward others in a sticky way. So this person, for example, or ourselves, and then guilt. And then to what extent is the idea of... acceptance of our limitations and these remedial skills can then help us. Thank you. Thank you for the question. I'm surprised that you remembered a question I asked somebody else a couple years ago. I can't remember. Yeah, I think, you know, when we

[69:11]

Whenever we look at our own practice, we see, you know, it's not deep enough. I don't understand enough. I don't practice hard enough. I'm not sitting enough. And that kind of, you know, in some ways you could say those are limitations. And the other way is, this is the duality of it. If we were to say, well, I'm really practicing well and I understand things so deeply and I'm really a bodhisattva and that doesn't work. Neither of them work, right? Either I'm not okay or I am okay. Somehow we get caught in both of them. Neither of them are. The word remedial is about healing, right? It's Remedial has to do with healing.

[70:14]

So those dualities. So what is up right there? And I think there's clearly aware as an admonition or a teaching, just clearly aware. Oh, this idea is coming up that I know nothing and I shouldn't be giving a Dharma talk today or ever. Or this idea that, oh, I really understand this. perfectly or, you know, just clearly aware, clearly aware, not getting caught, but more like, oh, interesting. And that kind of upright that neither latches on to either is a kind of intimate mind, don't know mind, which is intimacy with how our mind is operating, you know. And neither pushing nor grabbing. Recently, somebody was talking to me about their very wonderful practice.

[71:19]

You know, I told them, I saw them practicing very sincerely. And the, you know, When I said it, I had some concern that as soon as I say something, the person might have a gaining idea or, oh, I'm this or I'm that. Any label, even if it's how sincere and what a wonderful practitioner you are, can be not so skillful, actually. I don't know if that answers your question exactly, but upright as clearly aware and don't know mind are what are turning for me in response. Yeah.

[72:24]

I see Terry. Thank you so much, Linda. I found the idea that Vimalakirti got sick in order to experience and share what so many humans feel. I found that very helpful to me because I'm really tormented by loneliness. And it's been a long time, but the idea that, okay, I understand now everybody who's lonely. You're not understand, but can have compassion for whatever. It makes it more useful. And that's helpful to me. I also wanted to tell you, I started copying down...

[73:34]

the transcription app's version of Vimalakirti every time you said it. And it was very interesting. I started pretty late, probably when you're way more than half done, but I got 13 different. So this is how the computer hears. Yeah. Yeah. Let's share those with us. Okay. Viva like your tea. Viva what? Viva like your tea. T-E-A. Viva like your tea. This is kind of the best one. View public cutie. View public cutie. Yeah. Vima clarity. Female characters. Female acuity.

[74:34]

The Marvel characters. Visual acuity. The molecule. That happened twice. We won't carry. Your teachers. And the ball acuity. That was like one third of your talk. That's so funny. Yeah. That's very funny. And I just wanted to ask, I don't know, maybe I'm putting you on the spot. But like, because this whole thing of how to talk to people who you feel are deluded is a major issue. And I think many, many people's lives. So let's say somebody says that they know that they are injecting. They won't get the vaccine because they know that. Bill Gates has, you know, developed a plot to inject a microchip with it.

[75:39]

What do you, what would you say to that person? Just specifically that delusion. How, how do you, would you respond to it? Yeah. Well. You know, it kind of depends on your relationship with the person. If it's somebody. you know and love and, and you feel like you share, what do you share together that you can draw on? Is there anybody, you know, if, who does the person respect in the world that you, that you might say, well, what you might ask them what they think because you respect them or something, if they don't take your, but also if you're good friends and they respect you, you can say, I hear what you're saying. I do not. To say you're crazy or, you know, that's not going to. Right. What is the skillful way?

[76:40]

It's have a loving feeling towards them as they're caught in this. And also know that they're afraid and anxious and worried. And to speak to that part of them. Gee, that sounds like that would be a very scary thought to have and would. I don't have that thought. That's not how I... And the reason I don't is I read this, this, and this. If you read these things, that might relieve you because it's a... I imagine a world of great fear and anxiety that they're living in to think, to be thinking in that way. Anyway, that just... Okay, that's good. That's helpful. Thank you. Thank you very much. June has her hand up.

[77:45]

Okay. I think you're still muted, June. All right. Can you hear me? Yes. In order to understand the other's point of view, it led me to a scary place because I thought, well, it's been a process. But recently it came to me, actually, the picture of the Taliban women. I'm sorry, Afghanistan women with rifles who said they took up arms because they were getting raped and killed. And so were the children. And so they might as well defend themselves.

[78:53]

So It's somehow just the pictures and hearing about it shocked me in some deep way. So what came to me is connecting with that part of me, the part of me that would kill to protect my children, their adults, and grandchildren. And I thought, well, I didn't think it came, you know. They are operating from a platform that I can relate to. If I own that part of me, it's like a tribal part of me, primitive. My children, my grandchildren. my territory, my village, and pretty soon, you know, where do you draw the line?

[80:01]

Well, I'll join with others in my village, et cetera, et cetera. And then pretty soon it can be, well, I got to have more weapons than them. Well, you know, to know and know for sure that that is me. It's ugly. I don't want to own that part. And I try to not operate from there. But it's a way for me to understand someone to relate to. Some of this has gone absolutely crazy. But... You know, I think, well, I don't run into those people often. I live in Palo Alto and California. But, you know, I would listen.

[81:08]

That's all I could do. It would absolutely make my skin crawl to hear some of it. And I would have to trust. that wisdom would come to me to be able to know what to say back or what to do. So it's, I know it's a dualistic frame of mind that operates, but, and I know non-dualism, the reality really, But this is where, you know, very strongly I can relate. This is, I think, a confession. I'm not proud of this, but I would appreciate any thoughts that you have or help.

[82:14]

Thank you. Thank you for sharing with us that and being so... open with what you discovered and can relate to. And I feel like you touched into something that is shared, you know, that is not different than, you know, I mean, we hear about beings, and the Janaka tales actually have it, where the Buddha was a tiger, you know, the Buddha was a bodhisattva, and there was a hungry tigress, and he was going to eat, she was going to eat her cubs, and the bodhisattva threw himself down for her to eat him instead of, you know, these kinds of stories of complete selflessness, absolute

[83:18]

no thought of anything else but the benefit of all beings, you know, and that those are inspiring or horrifying depending. So where we are on the path and how we're taking up as best we can are the teachings and also knowing our limits and You said, I'm not proud of this, but there it is. And my sense is you're looking deeply and seeing this is the same as, do you know Thich Nhat Hanh's poem, Call Me By My True Names? Do you know that poem? Yes, I do. It's just like that. I feel like as you were speaking, it was like, call me by my true names. I am not different from, I mean, in the poem, you know, He lives all. I'm not going to separate myself out as above.

[84:23]

No, I share that. That's who I am. And I will practice even harder because I see. So that's how I heard it. And it helps you to understand. Just like you said, you can understand because you know to. Yeah. It was a real, thank you. Yes, it was a relief in a way. Ah, yeah. Oh, here it is. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. I'm doing a quick scan of the room to see if anybody has their hand up. Well, I appreciate that I often get a lot in the question and answer periods.

[85:34]

And so I've been moved by each person who spoke and asked the question. And so I'm thinking like last night when I looked at my emails and I like the organization called Win Without War. And there was a statistic. They have a T-shirt. I'm probably not going to buy it or wear it. But it said that if we took 3% of our Pentagon budget, we could end starvation in the world. And I think to hold those ideas that, excuse me, I'm kind of a little cheery, that hold the ideas of hope. is also a beautiful antidote to the despair that sometimes we can feel. So I just wanted to add that to the mix. Yeah.

[86:35]

Thank you. I appreciate that. I think the despair, I don't know, years ago, Joanna Macy, the teacher, did despair and empowerment workshops. Yes. And You know, people couldn't look this. I think it was about the environment, a loss of species and loss of loss of so much our Earth. And she brought them down, down into the despair. And I think people did it, but they spoke from the animal's point of view, you know, as if they were the last white rhino or whatever, and spoke. And people went, they went so far down that they came back up with energy and empowerment to do something and to join with others. So sometimes we don't want to feel the despair, right?

[87:36]

And so we, oh, we distract ourselves in a million different ways just to not think about it. I don't want to hear about it, but to turn towards it. That's where the power is actually to face it and with help, not by ourselves. I think like this group that you mentioned, we need each other to face these things. You know, we need to help each other. Yeah. Anyway, thank you. Thank you. Okay. What do you think, Kogetsu? I think it feels complete. Okay. Thank you all very much for attending today. I appreciate it. Please take good care of yourselves and have a wonderful session.

[88:36]

If you'd like to unmute to say goodbye, maybe so now. Thanks, Linda. You're welcome. Bye-bye. Bye-bye, everyone. Okay. Here I go. Thank you.

[89:29]

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