This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. So another summer is coming to an end. And the phrase always comes to me toward the end of the summer that some guy who was here I don't know, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago, five years ago, said. I remember him. I don't remember his name. He was a young man who was, I think, studying acting in Utah. Anyway, at the end of the summer, after the guests have gone, the students have a little party. They have a dinner and a fancy dinner like we normally serve to the guests. and then do a skit night with music or skits.

[01:02]

And this guy, whose name I can't remember, said, we really did something. And that phrase always kind of stays with me about the summer. Somebody interviewed me today, wanted to know sort of how we do it. She's trying to do something somewhat similar. and wanted to know sort of how, you know, she said it looks like there's like all these really well-defined jobs, but she noticed that the people sort of flow through. And that's kind of the way it is. I think of it in the spring as like there's kind of a mandala that looks kind of like, you know, Chinese checkers with all those little holes where you put the marbles? So we've got, you know, this mandala with... the different crews and a certain number of holes on the crews. And then you, you get these marbles who are the students, the old and new students, but none of them have been in the most, almost none of them have been in these positions before.

[02:10]

And then you like put certain marbles and certain holes all over the board. And, and then the thing sort of kind of starts to turn, you know, it's not just like a Chinese checkered game that sits there on the ground. It's a, it's a live mandala and it starts to, creak and turn and like, oh, the guests are coming in. Okay, let's see. We need somebody to set the table. So this is this group over here. And, you know, nobody knows what they're doing, but it starts to turn. And then, you know, eventually it's kind of like going pretty well. And then we really did something. And then it's time to like turn it off and go back to this endo for the next winter practice periods until you, the guests, can come again in the spring and we'll start the whole thing up again. And you have your holes, too. You know, there are holes for the guests. You're not like an extraneous part of this mandala or intricate part. So last time I talked a couple of weeks ago, I talked about the first koan in the Soto Zen koans.

[03:17]

The kind of Zen we practice here has its own book of koans, of stories, you know, for you to live and meditate on. And the first one I talked about last time, it kind of, to my mind, kind of sets or describes the base of Soto Zen. And it's a story. The story is about, it's called The World Honored One Ascends a Seat. And it's about Buddha or each of us sitting down and sitting, zazen, and discovering that the teaching is us, is part of us, that the parts of us are the teaching. And discovering that in that way, we are the world-honored one. We are like the center of the universe, each of us, the center of the universe.

[04:20]

And then it goes on, and I went on to this... poem which is a commentary on it a beautiful poem about the universe being an ancient brocade that's all you know continuously being created and how everything is connected in that so after the lecture the next day someone I can't remember who said to me how did the two parts of that go together and I was like, oh, yeah, that's a really important part. That would have been a good way to end, would have been to say something about how they go together. When I first started lecturing years ago, we did a little group, the people who were lecturing in the city center, those of us who were just starting to lecture, Linda Ruth and Steve Weintraub and myself, and I forget who else, and then Reb would kind of meet with us after each lecture.

[05:25]

and give each other feedback about it. And one of the things that they often said to me was, you need to pull it back together, like say something at the end that kind of ties it back to the beginning. So see if you can help me remember to do that tonight. Right now I don't even remember what the beginning was, so how am I going to remember in 25 minutes or so? Anyway, maybe your memories are better than mine. I think that is a really important part, how those two go together, how this sitting down, really paying attention to this karmic body and mind and the way the universe is intricately interdependent, how they go together. So I was chanting the other morning. We chanted the Jomera Samadhi and this line... popped out at me again, as it has many times, right at the end of it, which is practice secretly... How does it go?

[06:30]

Looking within. Like a fool, like an idiot. Just to do this continuously is the host within the host. So practice secretly looking within? That's not quite right. Working within. Like a fool, like an idiot. Just to... Just to continue in this way is the host within the host. This is really these two separate ideas coming together again. Again, they're juxtaposed right with each other to practice secretly working within like a fool, like an idiot. Practice within this body and mind really paying attention here. To do this continuously is called the host within the host. So I'll come to that in a minute. First of all, this first part, practice secretly working within, is a description of zazen. It's a description of sitting meditation, of coming and sitting in the zendo and really paying attention to what's happening here.

[07:39]

I think there are three important parts to that. to the way we can be with ourselves in Zazen. In Zazen, in sitting meditation, but also in something we could call Zazen when we aren't just sitting quietly, but when we're living our life. Still having these three things, which are attention, actually paying attention, actually being present, where we are, with ourself, and in the context that we're in. I've been saying this to myself in different order because I think they definitely include each other, but paying attention, not knowing, like a fool, like an idiot, not knowing, not deciding what's going on here, and respect.

[08:46]

Respect for that, those things, we want to call them things that are arising, those thoughts, those emotions, those sensations that are arising. So paying attention, crucial. Mostly we get very distracted. We spend our life in some kind of habitual distraction, most of us. There's something. that has our attention. Something has our attention. Sometimes it's another person. Sometimes it's the way things are going out there. Sometimes it's actually something about ourself, but it's a part of ourself that we're kind of like hooked on and we get distracted by it. We actually kind of recreate it and obsess on it. And rather than paying attention to whatever is arising, in the moment, in the context that we're in.

[09:51]

So actually finding ourselves is kind of a challenge. We'd think it would be obvious. Here I am, this is where I pay attention, but it's not that simple. We're ready to fly off to some other land, some imaginary land, as pretty much before we even think of coming back. So attention. And then not knowing, not having, not believing at least, maybe we'll have ideas about what this is and the value of it and how it compares with everything else and what part of it should be gone or what part of it should be recognized by other people. or, you know, all those things that we might have ideas about, but to, you know, be like a fool, like an idiot, not know really what is happening here.

[10:55]

Just be there attentive to it. And that can be defined as respect, too, if we do it with the right attitude. Like, this is worthy of attention. This is worthy of, you know, not knowing what it is. It might be more complicated or deeper or more subtle or just different than what I think it is. So some respect for that, some appreciation of that. And that's one of the places that this host within the host comes in, or the... you know, the ancient brocade of the universe, if we, and it kind of comes from both directions, if we can do that with ourself, if we can be open to ourself in those ways, paying attention, respecting and not knowing, not jumping to conclusions about ourself, the parts of ourself, then as we...

[12:12]

as our experience of that opens up, we start to see a similar kind of respectable, understandable functioning happening in other people also. Respectable, understandable sometimes means, oh, there's suffering going on. There's suffering going on here. That's why I am acting the way I'm acting. And then when we look at other people, we see a kind of similar acting going on, and we know, oh, there's suffering going on there. I may not know exactly what it is, but it's familiar. Somehow, right now, I'm going to throw in this quote. I'm not quite sure how it goes in here. but somebody gave it to me this week, and I liked it a lot, and I'm going to make an attempt to make it fit in.

[13:15]

Okay, this is from R.H. Blythe. The Zen masters have no doubts about their experience. A Christian does not doubt the perfection of Christ or the good intentions of the deity. But when Christ on the cross doubts the love of God... And when Hakuin doubts the enlightenment of Ganto, who screams so loud in his death agony, then I have no doubt of them. Should I read it again? First, I need a drink of water. the Zen masters have no doubts about their experience. A Christian does not doubt the perfection of Christ or the good intentions of the deity.

[14:18]

But when Christ on the cross doubts the love of God and when Hakuen doubts the enlightenment of Ganto, who screams so loud in his death agony, then I have no doubt of them. So I think this means... that we are greatly encouraged by examples of humans who are like us, people who have doubts like us, and yet go on to obviously live beneficial lives and live with their doubts and their struggles in a upright meeting, you know, meeting their circumstances in a beneficial way, that we are more encouraged by that than we are by what looks to us like some perfect being doing what is obviously easy for them, you know, to, like, for instance, sit still for a whole period of zazen.

[15:40]

We're a little bit encouraged by somebody who can sit still for a whole period of zazen, but when we are struggling, it's like, no, how did they do that? They must have really limber legs or a back of steel or a will of steel, something I obviously don't have. So there's no way I could do that. But if we know that the person has suffered, or maybe is still suffering, and yet manages to sit still, or sits still for a while and then moves, or once in a while loses their temper and then apologizes for it, sometimes that can be really inspiring to us. Oh, here's a person who has the same problems that I have. So... Again, I think, really to see that, we pretty much need to see ourselves.

[16:45]

If we're always looking over there, we'll have some definition that we'll fit it into, that will leave a big blank spot over here where we need to be looking. How do things really work? How does someone... Suppose you're having feelings of love or lust... or hate. If you jump to the conclusion that that's what I'm having, I'm having feelings of this and here are the reasons, whatever they are, you won't ever really know what those simple, complex emotions are made up of in this body and mind. Whereas if you stay close, stay very close to the unfolding of love or lust or hate, in this body and mind, it's a different experience. It's, you know, it can be a lot of different things.

[17:47]

And we can give them other names, you know, like loneliness or feeling connected or feeling, wanting to feel connected or feeling seen or not seen. Anyway, many things, which again, the names are sometimes helpful in terms of communicating, but also somewhat distracting from the depth of the experience. So when we have that, when we do that, when we stay close, one of the things that I believe that I've experienced and I believe is true that we start to notice, experience, you know, quite intimately is the connectedness of things. How... how we change from moment to moment and how we change based on simple things, based on sunlight coming through the window or a breeze blowing down the valley, up the valley, whichever way the breeze normally changes, or someone coming by and smiling at us or someone coming by and frowning at us.

[19:04]

how much we change because of this interdependence of things, how much we're, in a way, made into totally different people by things happening around us. And the knowledge of that, the real knowledge of that, the deep knowledge of that, of how we are embedded in, made by everything, is really the only thing that allows us to trust enough to be present with ourself. If it's just me, you know, trying to be present with me and I'm separated, it's obvious it's never going to be enough. There's no way it's going to be enough. But as we get a feeling for the connectedness, the... you know, in this poem is called the denseness of the weave.

[20:07]

You know, as the wolf goes through the warp, the weave is dense and fine, that things are right there with us. We are surrounded and made by our world. And at the same time, we are making our world. So we, by very small movements, thoughts even, actions, we have an impact on those around us. And that's our prayer, really, that by something that we can actually do, we could have a beneficial impact on the world. That somehow in this complicated, really complicated world that we're living in, that somehow by something I could actually do, I could have some impact on that. I think that all of us really want to do that. And both of these, the story, you know, and the poem, and then this statement, practice secretly working within, like a fool, like an idiot, just to do this continuously, is called the host within the host.

[21:21]

So, you know, the host is such a great concept for Tassara guest season, where we... naively host people, you know, ask people to come here and be our guests. Somebody, a woman asked me some years ago, an older woman came here for the first time, and I was working on Cabin Crew, and she happened to come in while I was there, and she said, I just need to ask you something. Where do you get these people? It's like, well, we open the door, and they stumble in. You know? was so sweet you know you wouldn't believe it if I told you so so so we naively invite people to come and you bravely do you know make your way down the road and come to Tassajara both guests and students you know who make their way here and then you know the host

[22:26]

is kind of, you know, both the person who is working to make people comfortable, but the host is also the one who is most at home. You know, it's the host's home, right? So the guests come in, and they're a little uncertain, you know, the guests, whoever the guests are. Whenever we go into a new situation or into somebody, you know, there's a little uncertainty. And the host, hopefully... is saying, yes, come into my home. Let me take care of you. So this is called the host within the host, is this world-honored one, is each one of us saying, yes, I'm here. Yes, I will meet myself and my circumstances. fully with good intention, not necessarily with perfect actions or thoughts, but with as much attention and not knowing and respect as I can.

[23:39]

I'll meet every situation with as much attention and respect and not knowing as I can. And I'll be the host there. to do that is to be the host within the host. We are also the guests in, you know, this valley, this world, this brocade that we're all making. That's the host. You know, that's the, uh, hosted land that we are living in, um, where we're welcomed and made into something moment after moment after moment made into something, uh, And safe, actually. Safe. Now, it's a particular kind of safe. As I said many times, Tassajara is safe enough so that we can be open to ourselves and see all the various unsafe things that we had hoped would never come up again appear.

[24:45]

And, of course, this safe also includes, you know, old age, sickness, and death, and many things before that. So it's not safe like nothing that we, from a personal ego point of view, wouldn't call unsafe. But from... We just had a young couple, both of them Zen teachers who were here, and... I think was his name, gave a class on koans, which I was not able to attend, but I was at a conversation at the table with him where, may I say, Rachel was asking questions of him, and it was very interesting to hear him talk about how to understand koans. And one of the things that I picked up from him or heard him say, I think he said it, was that one of the...

[25:53]

either ways of looking at koans or advantages of studying koans or something, is that you look at it both from, he described it as like you were, so you're there in the situation, and all the details of the situation that you're in, we were at that point talking about kind of life koans, which is kind of the mostly Soto Zen koans or experiences that happen in your life. and you meet them like a koan. So one way to work with them as a koan is you see the actual details of the situation, all the details, just like I've been talking about, the outside details and the inside details. You see not necessarily all of them. We can't see all of them, but we see them as fully as we can. And then at the same time, or then you, I mean, you're not right at the same time, but you kind of like fly up like a bird and look down on it, and see it from this perspective of, oh, here's this situation where I am maybe upset about this particular thing that just happened between me and this other person, but if I go up 1,000 feet or so, it looks very small.

[27:11]

It's like there's some little movement down there in those mountains. How did I get there? to feel the way we are embedded in this land, in this brocade, and how our little movements are both big. They're like making the brocade and so tightly woven in there that they also are, you know, they're just flowing along. It's just flowing along. is what can give us the confidence to actually be open to the details of this karmic body and mind, to feel like, oh, I am in this flow of life.

[28:12]

I'm part of it. I'm not just like me, a separate piece that's somehow stuck on to the world. but I'm right in the weave of it. And yet, this is the piece that I, what I call me, which is my consciousness, this is the piece that I'm connected to. This is my entryway to the whole brocade through this bundle of nerve endings. This is how all the information about the universe comes to this, this. consciousness you know so I'll stop there and see if you have any questions or thoughts if you don't then I have to figure out how to tie it back to the beginning yes thank you what is it

[29:19]

The three things were the kind of attitudes for, somebody over there is telling me, attention, respect, and not knowing. Those are like, yeah, actions and attitudes to have for Zazen, sitting Zazen, walking around Zazen, living. That was pretty close in the beginning, right? You're welcome. Anything? Yes, Westry. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you.

[30:28]

A whole other lecture I can see. Well, you know, imminent death is always there, right? If we're going to... If we feel like we need no death, it's kind of a different world. I mean, there is a way that, you know, according to Buddhism... And according to many religions, actually, there isn't really death. There's just death of our small ego. But I don't really know so much about that. I haven't been there yet. And it looks like death to me. But there also are many small deaths of hopes, fears, identities. You know, that look, when I think about them, they seem terrible.

[31:33]

But when they actually happen, there may be some pain there, but so far, none of them have been just plain terrible with no other qualities to them. So I think as we're... So Tassajara being safe... That's a big topic, which I hope you have some feeling for. It's safe in so many ways. The people here are pretty accepting. They feed you. They meet you, pretty much. And they make a space, or in a way the schedule makes a space for for us to function and be a functioning part of a community, which I think is a really deep longing that humans have that is not very nourished in our culture.

[32:50]

There's a lot of feeling of separation. At Tassara, even though people feel separated all the time, many, many people say to me, I think I don't fit in. We probably all feel that to some extent. But still, there's a lot of evidence to the contrary. We're actually fitting in just fine. We're doing just exactly what we're supposed to be doing to fit in with the flow of things here. So I'm not sure that that seems like a really large topic that we could talk about. a long time so i'm sure that did not get to the bottom of something and in fact it is time for the students to go to bed so or me at least so i started out with a whole other thing wasn't about this at all what was it no there's something beside that before that yeah the chinese marbles

[33:52]

The end of summer. It was the end of summer. Thank you. Oh, you're also helpful. Great. Does it feel tied together yet? Yes, it is. The end of summer, and it is tied together, no matter how you feel. It's not the end of summer yet, actually. It's several more days to go. So we have this possibility of being here together, all of us, and testing out here in this supported, safe enough place. What do we see? What do we experience if we really try to imagine ourself as the world-honored one, the focus, a worthy person object of meditation to imagine this body and mind as a worthy object of meditation that is part of an integral part of the host within the host so thank you very much thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center our Dharma talks are offered free of charge

[35:16]

and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click Giving.

[35:29]

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