When you meet Subhati Kuta, you better lock down all your possessions, because he'll take everything you got, as we shall hear in tonight's story, which is about leaving home and is I think particularly revealing just how far that goes, that statement goes, leaving home. If you don't have a copy, then you can pass a book over, if you don't, maybe you can read over somebody's shoulder, just to pick the mice here, it's interesting.

[01:12]

So leaving home is the theme, and until we really dig down into that feeling of home and what it means to us, can we really begin to appreciate what home-leaving entails? It's true, some people are brought up in homes where they're beaten and abused, and home does not have a very happy connotation, but I think for most, well I can't say for most people, it's my feeling or my hunch or my assumption that most people have a sense of home conjuring up a place of security of some sort, a place where you're relatively safe, a place you can call your own, a place where you can kind of kick back, a place that

[02:23]

you want to in a sense hang on to, a nurturing place, a root in your life, a place of culture, a place where you finally have a stable identity. So leaving home, since we're all home-leavers here, from different times in our life, we've all left home, some young, some old, and only to create another home somewhere I think, and yet another home and yet another place. So tonight in this story, we're going to meet the place where home-leaving gets its maybe the most eloquent and mysterious rendering, and this book is called Upagupta, I don't know

[03:27]

if that's right, does anybody know the Sanskrit for Upagupta, Upagu? Did you have some more of chapter 5 up there? I don't know, I don't think so. Oh, yes. The fourth patriarch was the venerable Upagupta. Now that we all found a security with something to look at, where was the maimed and the haunted tonight? So we've been talking about what is this thing being transmitted, and the first time

[04:40]

we said, well, you know, in the first case with the Buddha it was just a gesture, he picked up a flower and held it up and somebody smiled in response, and in a silent way the first one was transmitted. Then Mahakasyapa handed it on to Ananda, who we know is the big blabbermouth of the group, because he remembered everything, and so thanks to Ananda we have to study all this. Of course we never heard Ananda's side of the story, so we don't know for sure if this was penned on him later. And Ananda passed it on face-to-face, something about the body and bodilessness of practice to Shonawashi. Now Shonawashi was about to meet Uba Kikuta, I like the Japanese, Uba Kikuta, the first time I heard that it made me feel a little shuddery, maybe it's Uba, Uba sound, Uba Kikuta,

[05:44]

anyway I knew there was going to be an encounter here, one would not forget. The fourth patriarch was the Venerable Uba Kikuta, in this case. He attended Shonawashi for three years and then shaved his head and became a monk. Once the Venerable asked him, did you make your home departure physically or in spirit? The master replied, truly I made my home departure physically. The Venerable said, how can the wondrous dharma of the Buddhas have anything to do with body and mind? On hearing this, the master was greatly awakened. Circumstances, the master was from the land of Dali and his name was Upa Gupta. He belonged to the Sutra class, the lowest of the four social classes. At the age of 15 he visited Shanavasa. At 17 he made his home departure and at 22 he acquired the fruit of practice. Traveling about and converting others, he arrived at Mathura. The number of those who became monks was exceedingly great.

[06:47]

As a result, I like this part, the palace of a demon monk shook and trembled and the demon grieved and was afraid. Each time someone was enlightened, Upa Gupta tossed a tally four inches in length into a stone room, talisman. The room was 18 cubits high and 12 cubits square and it was filled with tallies. One cubit is equal to about two feet. I don't know why they just put that in there. Upa Gupta was cremated with the tallies. This is important for understanding the layered pole. Was cremated with the tallies accumulated from a lifetime of encouraging home departure. He was cremated with the tallies. And remember, every time somebody got enlightened, he would throw a tally into this room and filled it up. The number of people who made their home departure was as great as when the Tathagata was alive. Therefore, people called him the Buddha without the major and minor marks, as we know, the 36 marks, 32.

[07:49]

Now, the story about the demon here. The demon, resentful, watched for a time when Upa Gupta entered Samadhi. That's interesting. Not when he's coming out of Samadhi, but the demon waits until he goes into it. Kind of, you know, shift. In exercising all his demonic powers, he tried to harm the true Dharma. Didn't say how. The Venerable, while in Samadhi, saw what was intended. The demon watched and secretly hung a garland around Upa Gupta's neck. Then the Venerable had the idea of subduing him. Rising from Samadhi, he took the dead bodies of a human being, a dog and a snake, and transformed them into a flower garland. Speaking softly, he put the demon at ease, saying, You offered me a very rare and wonderful garland, and now I have a garland, which I want to offer you in return. The demon was very happy and extended his neck to receive it.

[08:57]

Then the garland changed back into the three smelly corpses. Insects and worms crawled from them. The demon detested it and was greatly distressed. How could he get rid of it, despite all his supernatural powers? He could not get rid of it, despite all his supernatural powers, nor could he unfasten it or move it. He was having a devil of a time. Then he rose up, maybe that's what it means to have a devil of a time. I always thought that meant you're having a good time, right? A devil of a time, I thought that, but I guess a devil of a time means like this. He rose up to the six heavens of the realm of desire and spoke to the celestial beings. He also visited the Brahma heavens and sought deliverance. Remember, in the Indian mythology, celestial beings are pretty much like us humans. They have lifespans and will eventually die and lose their powers. Celestial beings said,

[09:58]

This is a supernatural transformation done by a disciple of the Buddha who has the ten powers. We are rather ordinary beings, so what can we do about it? We're just gods. The demon said, Then what can I do? The Brahma celestials told him to take refuge with Upagupta. And then he would be able to get rid of the garland. They recited this verse in order to change his mind. If you fall down because of the ground, you must use the ground to get up. Well known. If you fall down because of the ground, take a spill. You must use the ground to push yourself back up. If you try to get up without the ground, it makes no sense. Now remember, in all these teachings, Vrndavana will form an emptiness going back and forth. He says, Now return and seek liberation from the disciple with the ten powers. Having received this instruction, the demon left the celestial mansion and, in repentance, paid homage at the feet of the venerable Upagupta. The venerable asked him, Are you going to ever try to harm the Tathagata's true Dharma?

[11:00]

I expect the demon is going to say. The demon replied, I completely take refuge in the Buddha way and will forever cease what is not good. The venerable said, In that case, you must say that you take refuge in the three treasures. The demon king joined his hands and pronounced the refuge formula three times and the garland fell off. Well, at this point in the story, you can make of the garland and who the demon is and who gets the garland. I think that's pretty clear in your life, isn't it? No. Let's go on with the story and maybe they're going to answer it. It's like the alakrams, right? What is this thing, this dead dog? This dead snake, this dead human corpse from the reptile mind to the mammal mind to the human mind and so on.

[12:06]

And this progression. It was still being hung around the three animals around her neck. In this way, Upagupta displayed. Now, this is the taisho. Now, this is Kezan Jogya. He's taking the story. By the way, you know these stories, particularly this one, reading in the footnote. We know almost nothing at all about such a character. Even in the Chinese chronicles, which were taken from Skimpy, Indian findings. So, whatever this particular teaching is, it takes the form of this Upagupta. So, he says, When he was seventeen years old and shaved his head, Shanavasa asked him, Did you make your home departure physically or in spirit? For Buddhists, there are basically two forms of departure, which are physical and mental. Now, get this. Leaving home physically means that they cast away love and affection. Leave their homes and birthplaces.

[13:11]

Shave their heads. Don monk's robes. Do not have male or female servants. Become monks or nuns and make an effort in the way throughout the twenty-four hours of each day. Whatever the time, they do not pass in vain. They desire nothing else. They neither delight in life nor fear death. Their minds are as pure as the autumn moon. Their eyes are as clear as a bright mirror. They do not seek mind, nor do they hanker to see their own original natures. They do not cultivate the holy truth, much less worldly attachments. In this way, they do not abide in the stage of ordinary folk or cherish the rank of the wise and holy, but more and more become mindless seekers of the way. That's a good one to ask yourself. Are we becoming mindless seekers of the way? Are we just seekers of the way and real mindful seekers of the way? Or are we just mindless? Period. Fumbling around.

[14:14]

They do not cultivate the holy truth, much less worldly attachments. In this way, they do not abide in the stage of ordinary folk or cherish the rank of the wise and holy, but more and more become mindless seekers of the way. These are people who leave home physically. Those who leave home in spirit do not shave their heads or wear monk's clothing. Even though they live at home and remain among worldly cares, they are like lotuses, which are not soiled by the mud in which they grow, or jewels, which are immune to contamination or dust. Even though here there are karmic conditions so that they have wives and children, they consider them as being trash and dust. I think I know a dude like that. What does Cleary say there? They are not attached to them. Not attached to them is a little bit treating them like trash and dust.

[15:25]

But, you know, interesting in the sense of the teaching of course is to see the impermanence of things and, you know, seeing everything as dust. The whole world is a transformation from dust to dust, sitting in the, you know, how the Indians sat in the charnel grounds and so on, contemplating the decay of bodies and so on. Maybe considering in that light that they are very perishable. They do not entertain love for even a moment. Wow. Love. I found that sentence that you were asking about. Even though they may have spouses and children, according to circumstances, they are not attached to them. What's the other version of they do not entertain love for even a moment? I think it's included in they are not attached to them. Because the next sentence says like the moon in the sky, like a pearl rolling in a bowl. Oh, okay. So that's it. He dropped that one sentence. He does that clearly, doesn't he?

[16:30]

They do not entertain love for even a moment. Or covet anything. So that's the not attached one. Yeah, but that says it more than just not attached. The one who is screened in the midst of a bustling city. Like the moon suspended in the sky, like a ball rolling around in a tray, they live in a noisy city and see one who is tranquil. In the midst of the three realms, form, formless and desire realms, they clarify the fact that they dwell beyond time. They realize that exterminating the passions is a sickness. And that aiming for ultimate reality is wrong. They realize that both nirvana and samsara are illusions. And they are not attached to either enlightenment or the passions. These are the people who leave home in spirit. I have a question. The implication here is kind of that it's either or. But that doesn't seem consistent with a lot of the other teachings.

[17:36]

Save your question. Okay. See what happens before we get to the end of it. Okay. So Suvarnabhasha asked Ubhaguta whether he had made his home departure physically or in spirit. If it is not one or the other, then home departure is not home departure. Hence the question. However, Ubhaguta replied, truly, it was physical home departure. In this, he did not think about mind, speak of original nature, or discuss the abstruse. He just knew that it was the body composed of four elements and five aggregates was left home. Dear mom, my four elements and five aggregates are going to visit you next month. He attained enlightenment spontaneously. And therefore clarified that it was a matter of psychic powers. He acquired it without seeking and therefore clarified the fact that it is unobtainable.

[18:39]

Since this was the way it was, he said that he had left home physically. However, now comes the kicker. After all of that. Two ways of leaving home and so on. And it really sounds like you kind of cut them. Bring your bridges behind you and cut all this. But listen to this. From the standpoint of Buddha's wondrous dharma, this is not the explanation. Therefore, Sarvabhasu explained that Buddhas do not leave home physically or in spirit, nor should they be seen in terms of the four elements and five aggregates, nor seen as the profound mystery of truth. Now when we begin to hear that message, we know what land are we in here. School. Which teaching land is this? Madhyamaka. Exactly, the Madhyamaka. You're right in the middle of the Prajnaparamita. They cannot be seen in terms of wise and foolish, nor are they bound to such things as mind and body. They are like space which has neither inside nor outside,

[19:44]

like the ocean which has neither surface nor interior. Even though there are many subtle principles and numerous teachings, he spoke only of this. Now this is interesting. Do not say that, quote, I alone am honored is Buddha. And do not say that he either comes or goes. Who can speak of, quote, before my parents were born, unquote, or, quote, prior to the empty eon. Aiming at this place, one transcends birth and no birth. One is liberated from mind and no mind. It is like water conforming to its container, like space which rests against things. Though you grasp it, your hands are not filled. Though you search for it, you cannot find a trace. This is the wondrous dharma of the Buddhas. When you reach this place, Upagupta does not exist,

[20:46]

and Sanavasa does not arise. So you cannot consider them to move or to be still, to come or to go. Even though there is, is, and is not, other and self, it is like the sound at the bottom of a stream, or like the endlessness of space. If you do not experience this place one time, then even a million teachings and countless wonderful principles will end up uselessly as the flow of ordinary karmic consciousness. Karmic consciousness, of course, is the second link or the third link of the 12 links of causation, which is born, as we know, from ignorance.

[21:48]

In this way, when Sanavasa spoke about the Upagupta was instantly awakened, it was like a clap of thunder in a clear sky, like a raging fire bursting out on the great earth. Once the thunder roared, not only was it as if the roots, here comes this word now, all the roots, every reference point, the roots of Upagupta's ears were cut off, not only that, but he instantly lost the root of his life. The raging fire blazed, and suddenly the Buddha's teachings and the true face of the patriarchal teachers were completely reduced to ashes. These ashes appeared in the name of the venerable Upagupta. These ashes appeared with the name. They were as hard as stone, as black as lacquer. Getting rid of the ordinary natures

[22:52]

of any number of people and smashing their bodies, he vainly counted emptiness by casting tallies and left behind traces of emptiness by burning emptiness. Any questions? We have a few kind of practical metaphors about that. No? I'm just curious. Did it end there in that book? Oh, I'm sorry. We've got the verse. Today this descendant of the Daijo monastery would like to look for the traces beyond the clouds and fix some words to the clear sky. Would you like to hear them? House demolished. The person perished. Neither inside nor outside.

[23:52]

Where can body and mind hide their forms? That's a good one, huh? House demolished. You left home, you know. You left home for some idea, some belief system or other or for some person or some place some dream some job. You fill in a blank space where you've all gone through this trip only to find it turns to ashes eventually out of which a new fire begins. You look for this new thing until more and more, you get more and more subtle in your craving for understanding less and less gross. You finally give up all the things of the world even give up your attachment to ideas and so on but you still ain't free. You're still caught by something. Something comes along when you're ready

[24:54]

in some form as it says here you cannot make it happen. You can prepare yourself in which you are cut loose. Somebody asked Suzuki Roshi what is the torii like? He said you won't like it. There's no way back. There's no recourse to any idea any wisdom tradition any figure any historical moment nothing is left for you in that sense. When Upa Gupta Upa Gupta I love that name Gupta is too funny for words. Gupta Gupta comes he knocks on your door he's already got your lease in his hand and has ownership of everything you own if you let him in. And if you don't let him in you don't leave home. So

[25:55]

each moment we're meeting Upa Gupta saying you're getting a little nice and comfortable and safe something's going to come along and shake up your space. Maxim I understand. That one you know right? So what strikes you in this story that we could discuss a little bit? I mean are we home leavers or not? How do you feel about that? This is about giving up everything. You know it feels pretty easy to settle down here. The food's good the showers are hot. Someone must be doing something wrong. Yeah. So how does that go with this? Well

[26:58]

where are you making your home? Wherever you're making your home you make a vow to leave it. So if we're uncomfortable here that means we can stay. Maybe that's why we keep ourselves miserable. Yeah. So we can have something to work on and we won't have to go out and do something else to work on. It's easier to talk about you know we've all had the occasion when somebody during our life has left us either because of dying or because of some misunderstanding you know a breakup and you listen for the you know the footsteps your karmic consciousness is plugged into the fact that at a certain time of night you hear his or her the footsteps coming home. Keep turning in the lock and someone come in and say hi. And that no longer is there anymore. Right? And you say

[28:00]

can I live without that? Can I live without how much can I live without without that kind of reassurance? And pretty soon you can do it pretty good at that you know. And then maybe you find out that you're always turning to your bookshelves or your phonograph where there's of course inspiring music playing. There's always something when you're living alone that you can find to inspire yourself painting poetry. But he says you know just giving up everything is not the Buddha way. The Buddha has no idea about what is mine and what is yours what to give up and what not. There's no ideas left

[29:00]

about what's holding on to about all that stuff. But how many people have we met like that? And how ready to what edge are we willing to go to that place? You know if we're homeless and drifting about what we're doing is actually looking for a new identity rather than a homeless wanderer or wayfarer. For a homeless wayfarer was traditionally a monk. But you can't help that because I mean if you're not looking for some new identity then you're looking for no identity. Of course. It's just looking for another identity. Exactly. That's what this is about. You're constantly waking up to the new snake around your neck. The dead dog of the past. This beautiful garland that came to us today turns into a smelly hunk of garbage tomorrow. Who was it that said there's only four questions in life. What do I want? How do I get it? When I get it what do I do with it? And when I don't want it anymore how do I get rid of it?

[30:01]

Our strategies are kind of built around that. So it's something about this getting something and then it turning into something smelly and and maybe yes? Is there something about that you're always going to be looking for an identity that it doesn't quit? Well, what is your feeling about that here in the piece? Is there something that looks gives up looking for an identity? Is there a time in your life when you no longer will be particularly conscious or uptight or even interested in who you are? Well, I recently noticed that I had for a long time had an idea that such a time would come. Yeah. But even if it did come it still would be an abode for resting in a place it's like an anchor. It's like everything

[31:04]

we do we jump from one anchor to another. We move one home to another from one nest to another, right? A settling place. A settling place. But he says here that we have to take refuge in a triple treasure. That's where you make your home. But then it says what does he say about the triple treasure? What's the triple treasure? It's empty too, isn't it? Yeah. Is it a dead dog and a corpse? It can't be. I mean, that's what I find like, I mean, doing the refuges and stuff it's like that I see that inclination you know, like to sort of project concepts upon taking refuge you know, it's such a it's such it's so hard from like when you cry to cry in a sense because it's like there's that practice of taking refuge but then it's like

[32:05]

but that mere act is it's full of it's full of concepts and and limitations. So it's just this bitter sort of contradiction. There's this famous I can't know if it's famous there was a story about it was called The Prelate it was about one of the judges on the tribunal for Joan of Arc and this prelate was a middle-aged man who had come to convene there to take part in this political and he was a man who had in his early life been inspired by the love of God saw God in everything everywhere and was inspired to join the church and so forth but his passion over the years through circumstances had waned and the fire had burned down and now as I said there weren't even any embers of that faith left nor was there any hope of ever finding that degree of

[33:06]

connection again that he felt was he just went through his life kind of dead like a stone like a cold stone everything had died for him and then Joan of Arc comes along and she looks into his eyes and she sees in his eyes that dead man that deadness but she looks into his eyes as he's looking into hers and seeing this fire this commitment to an ideal to something that she would risk her life for and so on and be a great inspiration for the kind of very kind of thing he's looking for he sees in her eyes she sees it in his eyes that he's looking for that that he's looking she's looking for him in his eyes to find that young man who had that faith and it's her faith that he exists still there that wakes him up to her and then he tries to save her but too late it's a very interesting story but it's about that about a person who had totally

[34:06]

held on or was so inspired by one kind of revolutionary change in his life something radical in his life an abundance of opening and a sense of connection and love and so on and then they slowly see that rigidify and turn into some kind of principle and then the structure on which those principles that he was serving the church was not any longer a place of liberation and a place of finding God but like a prison for him until someone comes along like a Bodhisattva in a sense and wakes up that spirit again that Bodhicitta that need to know that inquiry but it seems what this story is saying it seems that we actually have to have the home even when we think we're leaving home we're still leaving for something and it's when the teacher comes along and like a bolt of thunder lightning cuts right through the root of your leg the thing that you could not egoically possibly

[35:07]

make yourself give up but I think the other side of that that joke that there has to be somebody there to catch you and catch something at least and that's of course interesting it's part of the story that the teacher has to be there for the catching the disciple well if the disciple falls totally into the abandonment of the unrestricted open-ended sense of free fall like you call it nirvana or just call it non-attachment like kind of waking up in the middle of a dream and still being in phenomena and he gets stuck there and doesn't come back down into the conventional world so to speak and function on the conventional level of what we take to be real and see that that reality is not the reality of emptiness itself

[36:08]

make that step make those two steps let it all go have it all ripped off and then everything is there just as it was before except that everything all your attachments have been cleared of it that would be an amazing thing to wake up in the morning like that and nobody would although you would recognize everybody's face that everything would still be new brand new you'd know who each person is but they'd be what they are at that moment and so would you do you think that's something that happens one time and then it's like personally I think not myself according to Gogen Zenji's teaching that kind of enlightenment according to his teaching too you let it go immediately let that go because if that if there is consciousness of a state of mind an observer or an experience or having the experience because there is a haver and an experience that is co-arising that means it's dependent co-arising it is born in time it will perish it will change no

[37:09]

enlightened states are not states that don't change everything changes there is not a thing that's changing however see that's the point right there's not a thing that is changing there's changing that is experienced as a thing turn it around that way we think that I am there's this I and everything over here is phenomena moving and as long as phenomena doesn't change too fast I do not react to it with too much panic but if it changes too fast down here then what I call this I gets all rattled and upset and I begin to get scared angry and violent very crazy things unless I know that the thing that is trying to mirror and hold on to all the phenomena that seems to be whirling out here does not fundamentally exist except as a mirror of that then maybe

[38:10]

there would no then fear would go you see but knowing that I can't make that happen and you can't make that happen you can hear how it happens Ananda will tell us there will be endless volumes and stuff to read and no sooner will we give up and say I'm finished with this I'm tired of it feel free that you finally gave up all your attachment to something called Buddhism for example it's a great liberating feeling I've experienced it recently I'll do it but it's it's empty I'm just doing it for the sake of doing it like you do anything and you think that's it whoops that feels pretty good you know this is this is a category of experiences if I you know if I bow or bump into something in the morning or don't do it so what I mean it's not like driving a car it's not like learning how to drive you know the mistakes you might make are mistakes that we have devised so we can feel something but and then all at once you catch yourself

[39:10]

it's like we keep devising strategies constantly hatching plans and bracing for life you can't stop that strategizing because it's not one strategy that will take you through yeah so who was it that said you know we have this feeling that we're on this airplane you know how some people get kind of tense when you're taking off or they kind of hang out like this as if you're hanging on too tight you're going to get the plane off the ground anyway this story tonight I feel is timely it's always timely for us people that are living this life because I don't know about you but in some sense we're homeless we make a home well of course everybody is in life if you've seen the metaphor far enough but we speeded up the process a little bit so we were kind of moving from place to place home to home and you know

[40:14]

if you travel alone you travel fastest and like this who travels alone if you can start having kids and so on then you've got to wait 20 or 30 years before you know you can move on maybe 18 but home leavers you see the whole thing this such a Mahayana text was not that it was for monks that this enlightenment is for monks that this release is for monks or for home leavers or for home bodies that doesn't even apply anymore those names back up oh why do you think it is that we do things like chant the refuges what? chant you know the refuges oh chant yeah you chanting them and then and then maybe you know like

[41:14]

Ryan is saying you get into get into can we believe it and so forth is there some value I think there's something ancient about people getting together and chanting and making an affirmation a collective affirmation in something the thing about the Buddha collective affirmation it's not a collective affirmation in anything you can grasp that really seems kind of crazy you know it's ungraspable what we're talking about here it's unnameable unfindable other than the way we're talking about right now it's defined as being what it is is the definition ungraspable and and we tell ourselves a collective story about something like this we find a reason of values by which to live and we set up structures around them one of them is we bow and chant that was passed on to us as a way of learning selflessness and offering to the world because of

[42:15]

functioning because of functioning and it's a kind of yoga you're actually putting your body it's a sound and movement it's a dramatizing of the rituals and ceremonies of our ordinary life some more what we call sacred form maybe to a certain extent couldn't you think it works you know so to speak it works to the extent that I believe it exactly that I can enter into it and not yes take it casually but I actually believe it and actually even reify it yes but at some point I think what this is saying at some point if you're trying to really do that you're always looking for checking on yourself to be sure you're you know you're not sleeping up you're being a good monk and so on you're really doing at some point that whole thing is going to get a little heavy handed and you're going to say screw it so would you say like there's a time

[43:16]

for it and then there's a time to well the time for it is just to do it I mean I think our practice is not whether to say screw it or I love it but just do it like or not you go and just bow and you hit the bells and so on wholeheartedly yeah wholeheartedly you put yourself totally into the situation into the context and at the same time by doing so you don't you see where you get hung up on the context and the naming of the functions within the context such as Doan Doshi Ino and so on in the roles in which we play in those contexts and that's important to have these forms here is what is kind of the glue that holds everything else together without the forms and the willingness for us to subscribe to the forms there's too many agendas in a place like this to keep it together there's too many what agendas different ways of and why we commit

[44:17]

to do a practice period so that we'll actually make more of an effort than we would just by ourselves obviously so we come here to to support one another and each person's search or non-search or each person's transition between homes and the teaching here is you can't make a home in this don't make Buddhism a place to hide out so I've been thinking about this question you know about why chant and what it is I've been thinking about it for a long time and I think it's like there's so much it's been going on for such a long time that when I participate in it it's like making a little flame in smoke you know like instead of the match being orange it becomes blue and cuts

[45:17]

through the stuff just because of the power of the fact that people have been doing it for a couple thousand years and so the ritual for me is to participate in that energy and maybe that will push me into the thing I don't like well I can speak from experience and there have been mornings and days when I've really enjoyed services and all of the ceremonial functions and so on and there have been days when I could easily leave it and never do it again and feel that way but in that rhythm of noticing that in that rhythm of being kind of attached to it and liking it and then being not repelled exactly but at least indifferent and more or less indifferent to it and sometimes even tired of it and still do it yeah when Mick first talked about it he said

[46:18]

maybe it only works if I believe it and even reify it and I couldn't quite enter that and then I think it was still Mick that said do it or maybe you said do it wholeheartedly and that seems different to me I mean wholeheartedly doesn't seem to be the same as necessarily believing and reifying and I just wondered if wholeheartedly was sufficient for working if that's what you managed it's hard to work at least a lot of the time wholeheartedly at something you intensely dislike well I wasn't talking about liking or disliking I was just responding to believing I'm talking about liking and disliking and how that fits into but actually I think the question you have is a good point and then they're not the same actually I'm sorry but because of what I said of that of that history as soon as you

[47:20]

do it you're there it doesn't matter if you like it or not just because of the habit what pardon me well I was thinking when I was listening to Kathy because we've had some dialogue about these things that we have to pay attention to the near and the far enemies of these events and really get very most intimate with keep going in and digging deeper because these near and far enemies actually prevail in a much more pronounced way in our daily life in these situations and and the realms are when they unfold you don't even kind of know where you've landed somehow with it you know or you can't land so therefore you try to

[48:21]

go into a little box to justify it and then you try to get out of the box and then you try to rationalize the so

[50:31]

the way it vibrates the body and the bowing and the physical forms there's a way that kind of like in yoga like you said that it works in you even if you either don't understand what you're doing or don't particularly want to do it that's what I was saying I think everybody's saying that there's also the idea that hearing it really seeps in there's Buddha taught by speaking you know when you heard it the teaching just seeps through there's also the idea about chanting and the vibrations of the sound that seeps through the cells so I think there's something about that yeah yeah that's how I feel you know that's why it never particularly bothered me if it was chanted that I didn't understand yeah because on a level

[51:31]

you do right my my support for what he is saying is that what he was asking is that we all believe whatever we're doing what we believe it's not we're not believing that's our belief I believe I believe that's not necessarily I believe there's always a belief system at work it's just that there are unassumed assumptions or I mean unassumed there are assumptions that we haven't recognized yet because they haven't surfaced but sooner or later they do surface and then we do see that we're holding onto we're at a certain place we have certain assumptions from which we create dispositions and act accordingly taking it for reality ultimate reality even we seem to have a story around every word we use like each

[52:33]

each word like people will hear with their own story and bring that to the word like I'm very serious about the place of language and understanding language anew as many of you know who heard me like AI seem to be harping on this theme that I'm a little tired of hearing language that words a church and that we get beyond that we're going to understand as a pure land once we get through our concepts that's the whole story that we got through concepts so what I think is the reality that we have to that has to dawn upon us is that we're born into a story and we keep making up stories and that's what human beings do about it and the thing about this story that is so interesting is the one story I've ever heard that says this is just a story being put together by our minds for us to look at what the mind itself is that's making this story that's what

[53:34]

the story is about and here's the ways to find out that and see how we keep suffering while this thing keeps collapsing we suffer that's we just kind of pass on the knowledge about how we do that with one another then I think we are fulfilling our temporary home whatever it may be here before we all move on to the next place in our life whatever that may be how did you think midangs the rising of causation one is born in ignorance one is born in ignorance because of that there is karmic consequences because of karmic consequences there's a consciousness out of which we act we build up something

[54:34]

called mind and body mind and body depend on the sense organ sense organ depends on touch or contact out of contact depending on contact arises feeling I like it I don't like it I don't know if I like it or not out of feeling comes grasping at some thing death or extension or something more strawberry sundae out of grasping becomes I really like that one really good I'm going to hold on to that I really like strawberry and I keep so no craving I keep clinging out of clinging arises becoming that is to say after the old world died the old Buddha is dead we make a new one we're clinging to the idea of the Buddha we make a new story and we become that now when we become that out of becoming is birth and birth is assurance of sickness old age and death in which we start again so is our effort not to become yes

[55:36]

the whole subcontinent of India was dedicated to the proposition of not finally becoming anything but evaporating in the nirvana not having to come back to this weird place called the world what about us from Mahayana but Mahayana has a whole different story probably because sooner or later word got out that you think you're going to get out out of here but you're always consciousness is always going to be here as one or the other of you and you're not ever going to know any difference now it's expressed as this now it's expressed as and it's not even an it you can't even find what it is but anyway it's always here it's always now and you can't find what now or here or you or is but that's the feeling of it and you're always going to try to be trying to find out so here it is and you're it but it says as soon as you say that I am the world honored one that's not you're caught again you're not the world honored one so I guess what all of these are the dialectic for all of these stories is to you know to pull us

[56:37]

and see the form aspect of our life and then to see it's ultimate inaccessibility by the mind or the body other than the mind or the body could you explain in your words I don't get it I don't get the the the explanation for I mean I do understand that home can be could be and then for the what for home but why does Upa Gupta says I'm leaving home physically and then the explanation I don't get he only knew that the elemental body leaves home it but it the elemental body comes without movement what does that mean I don't get it I don't get it of course you don't get it tell me say it in your words do you have well is it the English or is it once

[57:37]

once it it once it quotation marks dawns on you or one quotation marks you realize that the dependent core risen thing called Doris all at once once does not exist it never has it's just a word Doris but that word is not just the word that Doris the word Doris sums up the whole world that you are at the same time but if I take away that word from you in fact if you insult somebody about their name in some countries at least you probably get a knife in your ribs the name is extremely important to rob somebody of their name we go to litigation over that we go to court your name is how you so Doris you know as long as you are that's our consciousness we naturally respond that's what we do hi

[58:37]

there is just me there is just and he was just a physical body he didn't think about it it was just mind moving all these reactive tendencies He was just moving out, he did not rely on, just the body, he just left home, his body, he just took his body and said, I'm moving out, goodbye mom, goodbye dad, you know, stick over his shoulder with a little. Is that the same physically which is explained further up? If you read both of those over and over you will see that neither mind nor body clings to anything, that they're both turned into stones like this priest, it's like you don't have any response, you treat your kids like they're dust, you treat the whole world like they're dust and in the midst of traffic and so on, you're free of all the attachment to the forms of city living, and then you're also unattached to the bridge song, you see. He lived under a bridge with the beggars, like Daito did for 15 years until he perfected

[59:44]

his 35 years of practice before that, finding out if he could actually live with the lice and the rats and the scum of the earth, and was it true that there's nothing so small that is not deserving of love, deserving of compassion. I don't know about you, but every time I look in the mirror I think, you know, how much longer, how much, where's home, what's there to hold on to? How many homes have you been to? How many places have you wandered through? How many times have you been in a place and you didn't know where you, you were all alone and you lean your forehead against a cold windowpane and your hands are in your pockets and you're looking out into the empty street again from some window, how many times have you done that in your life, thinking, I've got to start all over again. Pretty soon it fills up with people, stuff, and so on, and then you get to another place and then all, except one thing will follow you like an old toaster, and I had this toaster

[60:51]

that stayed with me for 35 years through marriages and divorces, and the toaster would keep turning up. It was like artifacts from some past civilization, you know, so we all had an experience of what I'm saying. Family. Yeah. In fact, we have a friend, David and Brigitte, they have this house that is filled with beautiful stuff because all their friends, when they're breaking up, always give them something, a house full of beautiful Buddhas and Tantras and so on, and all these people who've given them, and they're breaking up because they don't want to have any stuff with them. When I came here in 1984, I came in with my VW Bug, and in the back, I had one trunk, and I had one sack, and I had two or three boxes of, you know, small boxes, and a backpack. And there was something on a hanger, like a rope, not a rope, but something. That was it. After a lifetime of accumulation, finally got it down. Now, now if I were to move, I couldn't move in 20 minutes like I used to be able to do

[61:56]

at Tasso. Well, it's the paintings. Plus the paintings. I painted myself in the aquariums. So, I built up another place where you enjoy, and I put it out, and, you know, now that I've got it, how do I get rid of it? How do I use it? We need to build a gallery. Sure. Okay. All right. So, where are we? We've had an hour now. We're totally nowhere. Hm? You said, where are we? I said, we're nowhere. One hour. Any more discussion on these? I think it's probably enough. Now, I have, I'd like to finish up the business about the books tonight, and so, anyone who has not paid Charlie, please pay Charlie. Okay, this is what you have. Should I give it to Arlie? Yeah, give it to Arlie. And, anyone else? Then, I have, anyway, that's it.

[62:59]

I have some books that I'll take care of. So, we'll take care of that business for tonight. And the next week, we have the last one. We'll just go on with the next one. Bye, Tonka. Thanks. So, bring a poem next week about your, about what? About the toasters. Well, whatever, I mean. A poem about one of them? Well, when we were in Reb's class, we all had to write poems about all these, yeah. About each case? Under summer's sky and winter moon, he makes march time sitting, cross-legged and non-moving, just taking things as they come, no world left to crush, no clouds left to scatter. That was about one of those.

[64:01]

Let words spill out as they may, one naked dancer, ten thousand gestures. That's Arlie. Anyway, something short like that. A couple of lines about form and emptiness. The dance of form and emptiness. About leaving home. You can make it really concrete. I don't care. Something that's real for you. Read it. Just something to think about this week. How would you, I mean, at the end of these chapters, it's wonderful. How each one is summed up in a poem. And particularly the one tonight. That's the house broken up, the people gone, neither inside nor out. Where have body and mind ever hidden their forms? In this one. I have a lot of sadness around this, what you described. Yeah.

[65:05]

That's a proper attitude for avoiding self-harm. Sadness. Why can't we just have a home? Well, the idea, I think, is that we can if we can learn how to be at a home. Anywhere. But most of us can't. So easy. Just when things kind of meet what's comfortable for us. And then when it all changes, we look for a new one. And we make the same one as we made before, although maybe a step better. In some sense. Still it is born in time, lives in time and dies in time. I'll give you a book about that. Or as Hamlet said, make her laugh at that.

[66:00]

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