I think while we're at it, I'll hand out the rest of these. Does anybody need one of the first ones we get? Yeah, someone shot the moon off? Let's hand these out while we're at it. And then at the beginning of next week, maybe we can use the books. We won't get to this tonight, of course, but just don't forget to bring it next week. Thank you. Oh man, look. Thank you.

[01:16]

Eva has been very kind in doing the labor on this for me, so I want to thank her. Thank you. Was that it? No. Anybody else need one? I have more here for next week. Who doesn't have one? This is not tonight, this is next week's presentation. Keep this for next week. Andrew still needs one. Andrew's the only one. By the way, I would suggest, if you get a chance, to either buy this book or go in the library and look at it.

[02:34]

It's one of the best expositions on Dogen Zenji's, or Kuk's interpretation of Dogen Zenji's interpretation of enlightenment. Which, after all... Kuk's just Dogen's enlightenment. Yeah, it's translations from the Shobo Genzo, all having to do with the question of what is enlightenment, at least in Dogen Zenji's view, which we've already discussed is quite different from the earlier doctrinal views. Since this book, you know, what we're doing with the transmission of light is studying the central question about awakening, and I think it's essential that we come at this with a critical mind. By that I mean not to kind of just accept because we see ourselves as, quote, Buddhists, that what is set forth in the book we take for granted.

[03:37]

Otherwise, I think we're in danger of selling ourselves a bill of goods, and buying into some ideology that, in the long run, is self-defeating. And we kind of con ourselves. We are our own greatest con artists when it comes to religious practices in the world. If it wasn't so, Buddhism would still be enlightening the world. Cambodia would not have committed its genocide. The Christian tradition would not have resulted in or helped to support the genocide in the West, and so forth. There's a story, you know, that I like a lot. Before we come to tonight's Ananda story, and just visibly what I'm saying about, you know, there's two ways of looking at it.

[04:42]

One way is saying, well, you know, we have a tradition of enlightenment, like a light that has been passed down from mind to mind. I believe that, you know, as a Buddhist. And the other kind of statement, the objective statement, that says Buddhists believe, or Zen Buddhists study or have a feeling that there is this thing called mind-to-mind transmission. There's two different points of view. And I don't think it hurts for you to have, or any of us to have, the second point of view, as well as the first, that we examine with critical attention. That's, after all, what the Buddhadharma, or at least the early Buddhadharma, exhorted us to do. If we take things on faith and become drinal and dogmatic, then I think we're just lost. And that reminds me of a story, not from Buddhism, but from Carlos Castaneda. I thought about this today. Have you read those books? Well, you might remember an episode that Castaneda, who's always playing straight man to Don Juan's mystical yaki sorcery,

[05:52]

is reciting to Don Juan a favorite story of his. And the story goes something like, I had this friend that had two cats, a woman, and she had to move away, and the cats were old, and she had no way to take them with her, and no one to leave them with, and therefore she had decided to take them to the vet. Or maybe it was the animal shelter, I'm not sure. But anyway, the fate of the two cats was pretty much settled about what would happen to them. And, of course, it was heartbreaking, but nevertheless, she was taking the two cats. And he was helping her, and when they went to carry the cats inside, the one that he was carrying leaped out of his arms, he said, and ran down into the sewer that was nearby. And one of those drains, it disappeared into the sewer. Well, the other cat was being carried in, purring and mewing to its eventual, if not almost immediate, destruction.

[07:05]

So Don Juan, he said, loved that story, because the cat that got away was the cat that made an existential choice about no matter what happened to it, whether it got eaten by rats, or starved to death, or at least it had made the choice to be free. And he said, now this is the point, he said, Don Juan always liked that story, and then Don Juan looked at me with that smile that sent a chill through my blood, and he said, of course, you've always identified yourself with the one that got away. And he looked at me in such a way that I realized that I was the cat that was being carried in. So the point of the story was that we're both cats, of course, but we're not always, at those moments when we're mewing in the arms of the Buddha Dharma, thinking that we're getting liberated, it's very likely that we're about to be rubbed out, and not in a positive way, but in a way in which we reify or get caught in some kind of idea about what we think this is,

[08:13]

and try to exemplify those ideas, other than what we already are. I always liked that story. It sent a chill down my back too, when I read it. All right, Ananda. I don't think there's anybody here who needs to know the history of Ananda. Anyway, on the internet, by the way, you can look up the various disciples and lineage, and they have quite a bit of information. I think it was you who brought it to me last weekend, on Mahakasyapa's life, that was legendary, of course, and I don't know where it all comes from, but it was kind of interesting about the stories we make up, that have been told about these personages. Okay, let's start reading it. Let's start from this side tonight with Catherine, if you would please read a couple of paragraphs, and let's follow along, and maybe just read it through, and then go back and discuss aspects of it.

[09:20]

Ananda asked Kasyapa, what did the Buddha hand on to him besides the Golden Seat Globe? Ananda said, yes. Kasyapa said, take down a banner pole in front of the gate. Ananda was greatly enlightened. Ananda was from the warrior caste, a cousin of Shakyamuni Buddha. Ananda means happiness or joy. He was born the night of the Buddha's enlightenment, and he was so extraordinarily handsome that everyone was happy to see him, hence his name. Ananda was foremost in learning, intellectual, resilient, and broad in understanding. He was the Buddha's attendant for 20 years, propagated all of the Buddha's teachings, and studied all of the Buddha's manners. When the Buddha entrusted the treasury of the Eye of Truth to Kasyapa, he also instructed Ananda to help communicate the teachings. So Ananda accompanied Kasyapa for 20 more years, and became thoroughly familiar with the entire treasury of the Eye of Truth.

[10:22]

Yes, now in the Cook rendition, I think the next paragraph, right, begins the Te Show, am I right? In other words, in this particular rendering, unlike the others, there's not much history and so on, particularly in the beginning, and most of it's a Te Show of Kasyapa himself. This should document the fact that the Way of Zen is not in the same class as other schools. Ananda was already foremost in learning, having studied widely and gained a broad understanding, with the Buddha himself giving him approval many times. Yet he did not hold the transmission of truth or attain enlumination. He did not hold the transmission of the ground of mind. When Kasyapa was going to compile the teachings left by the Buddha, Ananda was not permitted to attend because he had not yet attained realization. Then Ananda meditated carefully and soon attained sainthood. When he went to go into the room where the teachings were being compiled, Kasyapa told him that if he had attained realization,

[11:25]

he should enter by a show of supernormal powers. So Ananda appeared in a tiny body and went in through the keyhole. Thus he was finally able to enter. The disciples all said Ananda was the Buddha's attendant, so he had heard a lot and studied widely. It was like a cup of water poured into another cup without spilling anything. Let us ask Ananda to recite the teachings for us. So Kasyapa said to Ananda, Everyone is looking to you to recite the sayings of the Buddha. Then Ananda, who had kept the request of the Buddha within him and had now also received this request of Kasyapa, began to recite all the teachings of the Buddha's lifetime. Kasyapa said to the disciples, Is this any different from what the Buddha taught? The disciples said, It is no different. The disciples in attendance were all great saints with the six super-knowledges, including the knowledge of past lives, clairvoyance,

[12:29]

and knowledge of the end of contamination. They did not forget anything they had heard. With one voice they said, Is this the Buddha's second coming or is this Ananda talking? They said in praise, The waters of the ocean of the Buddha's teaching have flowed into Ananda. The teaching of the Buddha that have come down through the present are those spoken by Ananda. So we know for certain this way does not depend on great learning or on the attainment of realization. This should be proof. Ananda still followed Kasyapa for 20 years and he was first greatly enlightened at the time of the event cited in the beginning. Since he was gone the night of the Buddha's enlightenment, Ananda did not feel such discontent as the flower ornaments scripture, but he attained the concentration of the range of Buddha

[13:30]

and could recite what he had not heard. But he nevertheless had not entered the way of Zen. It is just the same as our failure to enter. In the distant past, Ananda had awakened the aspiration for complete perfect enlightenment in the presence of the Buddha called King of Emptiness. At the same time as did the present Buddha Shakyamuni, Ananda was fond of intellectual learning. That is why he had not yet truly realized enlightenment. Shakyamuni Buddha, on the other hand, cultivated energy whereby he attained true enlightenment. Surely much academic learning is a hindrance on the way. Here is proof of that. This is why the flower ornament scripture says, much learning without practical application is like a poor man counting another's treasures without half a cent of his own. If you want to find out what this way really is,

[14:30]

do not be fond of academic learning. Just be energetic in progressive practice. Yet I dare say that there must be something besides the handing of the robe. Thus Ananda once said to Kasyapa, The Buddha bequeathed the golden-sleeved robe to you. What else did he transmit? Kasyapa, realizing the time was right, called, Ananda. When Ananda responded, Kasyapa said, Take down the banner pole in front of the gate. Ananda was greatly enlightened as he heard this. The Buddha's robe spontaneously entered the top of Ananda's head. That golden-sleeved robe was the vestment transmitted and kept by the seven Buddhas of antiquity. There are three explanations of that robe. One is that the Buddha brought it with him from the womb. Another is that it was given by a being of the heaven of pure abodes. And the third is that it was presented by a hunter.

[15:33]

There are several other vestments of the Buddha. The vestment transmitted from the Bodhidharma to the first six Zen founders in China was made of a blue-black muslin. When it came to China, a blue-green lining was put in. It is now kept in a shrine of the sixth founder and is considered a national treasure. This is the one mentioned in the treatise on Transcendent Wisdom where it says, The Buddha put on a coarse monk's garment. The golden sleeves were golden felt. A scripture says that the Buddha's aunt made a vestment of golden felt by herself and gave it to the Buddha. These are only one or two of many vestments. As for the miracles associated with them,

[16:38]

they are found in many scriptural passages containing situational teachings. In ancient times, when the Buddhist master Vajrasiddha was challenged by a naval king, the Buddha's robe emanated light of five colors throughout the fire. And when the fire was extinguished, the vestment was unharmed. The king then believed it was the Buddha's vestment. It is that which will be transmitted to Maitreya. The treasury of the eye of the truth was not transmitted to two people, only one person, Kasyapa, who received the Buddha's request. Moreover, Ananda attended Kasyapa for twenty years and held the transmission of the teachings. Thus, the Zen school should be known to be a special transmission outside of doctrine, but recently it has thoughtlessly come to be considered the same as doctrinal schools. If they were one and the same,

[17:40]

since Ananda was a saint with the six super-knowledges, he would have received the Buddha's request and would have been the Buddha's successor. Was there anyone who understood the teachings of the scriptures better than Ananda? If there were anyone surpassing Ananda in this regard, then it could be admitted that the idea of the scriptures is one and the same as the Zen. If you say they are just one, why would Ananda take the trouble to attend Kasyapa for twenty years and become illumined at the command, take down the banner pole? Know that the idea of the scriptures is not to be considered the way of Zen. It is not that Buddha was not a Buddha, but even if Ananda was his attendant, how could he transmit to him the mind seal as long as he had not penetrated the enlightened mind? You should realize that this does not depend on having a lot of academic learning. Even if you can memorize the sacred teachings and books perfectly by means of your intelligence,

[18:41]

if you do not penetrate the heart, it is like uselessly counting another's treasures. It is not that the heart is not in the scriptural teachings, but that Ananda had not yet penetrated. The literalist interpreters in the Far East fail to penetrate the heart of the scriptures. You should also realize that the way of enlightenment is not useless. When Ananda, who was first in the sacred teachings of the Buddha's whole lifetime, propagated them as the disciple of Buddha, who would not go along? Nevertheless, you should know that he attended Kasyapa and again propagated the teachings after his great enlightenment. It was like fire joining fire. If you want to reach the highest state of enlightenment, clearly you should give up your idea of self, your old feelings of conceit and self-importance and return to the pristine, inspired mind to comprehend enlightened knowledge. As for the incident in Ananda's enlightenment story, Ananda thought that Kasyapa

[19:42]

had received the Golden Sleeve Vestment and was a disciple of Buddha and that there was nothing special other than that. Nevertheless, after following Kasyapa and attending him closely, he thought Kasyapa had realized something more. Kasyapa then knew that the time was right and he called to Ananda. Like a benedict spirit echoing in response to a call, Ananda responded immediately, like a spark reaching from a flame. Although Kasyapa called Ananda, he was not called by Kasyapa and Ananda and Ananda did not echo and reply. As for take down the banner pole in front of the gate, it refers to a custom of India. When the Buddhists and followers of other religions and philosophies would set to debate, both sides would put up a banner. When one side was defeated, their banner would be torn down. The present incident seems to suggest

[20:43]

that Kasyapa and Ananda had set up their banners and when Ananda was appearing in the world, Kasyapa should fold up his banner, one appearing, one disappearing. But this is not what the story means. If Kasyapa and Ananda are both banner poles, the principle is not evident. Once a banner pole was taken down, another banner pole should appear. When Kasyapa instructed Ananda to take down the banner pole in front of the gate, Ananda was greatly enlightened because he realized the communion of the paths of teacher and apprentice. After his enlightenment, Ananda took down even Kasyapa and mountains and rivers all crumbled away. Hence the Buddha's robe naturally entered the crown of Ananda's head. But do not use this story to remain in the state of standing like a mile high wall in the mass of naked flesh.

[21:45]

Masses appeared in the world one after another. The Zen master pointed it out generation after generation. It was only this matter, the mind-to-mind communication, was ultimately unknown to others. Even if the obvious masses of naked flesh, Kasyapa and Ananda, are one or two faces of the appearance in the world of That One, do not consider Kasyapa and Ananda as That One. You are a myriad transformations of That One. If you know That One, you will be buried at once. If so, one should not look for taking down the banner pole outside of oneself. Again, I want to add some words. The vines withered, the trees fallen, the mountains crumble away, the valley stream swells in a torrent, sparks fly from stone. Well?

[22:52]

What's it about? What? In all these stories, there's a warning. Every story has a warning in it. What's the warning? Too much intellect? Well, too much intellect. It sounds like they're kind of anti-intellectual. Don't get what? Cut up in the intellect. Don't get caught up in the intellect. Don't rely on something outside of yourself. It also says, do not linger in purity. This is a very important point, this last point, do not linger in purity. This is Dogen Zenji's thesis.

[23:54]

What is Dogen Zenji's thesis? What is Dogen Zenji's what? Thesis. How would you present Dogen Zenji's view of what enlightenment is, or his experience of enlightenment? All things, just as they are, exactly, are already perfectly enlightened. That's his thesis. All things without exception. So, what about whatever point of view you take, including what I just enunciated, which is setting up a banner, is what? Enlightenment. Well, yes, it's another point of view. But does that mean then that underneath our points of view there is something called enlightenment? No. Well, if you say no, then our points of view would have to be enlightenment.

[24:57]

But that's another banner. Wait, why is that necessary? Well, whatever position you take as a position, or as a view, no, I'm just saying that there isn't something outside, but not that all things that are inside are enlightenment. Well, is there an outside and an inside that we are affirming? It seems like you were. Well, then I'm taking a view. You see? So, is he tearing down the banner because there can only be one view? That's not what he said. Well, I noticed that he said something that wasn't it, but he didn't quite say what it was. Let's go back over the story.

[26:02]

Let's go back, beginning with Kasyapa. Kasyapa. We know about Ananda being, you know, maybe we could approach it this way. What might Ananda, I was thinking of it this way, what might Ananda represent since we're dealing with representation? He wasn't enlightened, right? That was the problem. You mean the pre-enlightened Ananda? Yeah. Past, right? Post-conception. Conception. Verification. Learning. But it's also, according to this attained realization. This is before the attainment we're talking about. Before he goes to the keyhole. Before? Before he goes to the keyhole. Before he goes to the keyhole, okay.

[27:06]

Because the keyhole happens 20 years before the Ganapati. Also devotion, I would say. Devotion. Because he was the attendant. Intelligence. Or relying on intelligence. It seems that what these, it feels a little bit to me like these doctrines have a kind of axe to grind. Which may be an historical question. And that axe to grind might be the fact that the doctrinal schools at that time was the attendant school. Which put great emphasis on learning and memorization. Being versed in the sutras. Having a clear understanding of

[28:10]

the Lotus Sutra, for example. Practicing from a particular point of view. But maybe there's something that could be looked at as prior or already always the case. Because at some point Dogen Zenji talks about all things, all animated and unanimated or sentient and insentient things do not have Buddha nature. They're already the very perfect expression of Buddha nature. This is that one, this is that Hongaku, that one doctrine, principle doctrine that is coming to the forefront in the 13th century. Now whether we believe that or not because the Indian Buddhists often dispute this point of view that we are not enlightened beings,

[29:16]

we have the potential for enlightenment. There is a self that has a potential for enlightenment but there is a self that has potential and that self we think is like this book or something that is going to get a new cover on it in a certain amount of time or in a certain process. Then it would seem to me that we are falling into a kind of duality. And Dogen Zenji's whole approach is to overcome all dualities in terms of Buddha Dharma. That one does not have to one does not have to do anything but realize that what one is already in the act of being one self, which is also the realization of the interdependence of all things existing concurrently with that aspect of the one is enlightenment

[30:17]

or is realization. As I understand Dogen Zenji to mean. Therefore our practice or whatever we are applying ourselves to at the moment in terms of wholehearted like what we are doing now wholehearted engagement is authenticating the interdependence of everything realized as yourself. Does that make sense? But the thing is there is a difference between this as an intellectual understanding that actually the feeling Dogen Zenji's and Keizan have a great deal of emotional content under their words. It is not dry. It is feeling attention. How are you reading that

[31:18]

don't linger in purity? There is a don't linger in emptiness. Don't linger in form. Don't linger in emptiness. Jumping clear of the many and the one is what by not lingering means at last, in other words suppose you all at once are doing something cutting carrots, reading a book fulfilling some activity and you are swept with this feeling of the kind of inexplicable oneness of who you are of what everything is it feels like a kind of shattering of your normal perceptive as soon as that experience happens you feel the emptiness you feel the sense that you cannot get to the bottom of anything and yet exactly what is happening is emptiness as form suppose you really have that sudden realization because it can't be gradual it has to come on all at once

[32:18]

but then what happens immediately after that the next second the next second you take that you put it out in front of you and you make it into something in other words it is so delicious you know that you don't want to let go of it as soon as that happens it is no longer killing well even killing it in Dogon Zinji there is not a one time enlightenment when I practice this wholeheartedly everydayness just entirely this self and other are one thing how could there be anything else but one how could this moment be anything else but everything that has ever existed being realized as now how could it be any different from that I mean it so permeates his work that we don't see this moment as the divine event we think this moment is preparation for something we are going to get tomorrow

[33:19]

but imagine when that whole thing became bullshit to you you just saw that you set yourself up for a lot of deception and there is always going to be dissatisfied and not only that now you have gone without chocolate, sex, rock, roll whatever the things are that made your life worthwhile in order to get something and all at once you feel you have been taken down the garden path you have been conned you have been turned around as soon as this becomes religion we are conned as soon as the Buddha according to Dogen Zenji becomes something else but that very activity that you already are you are conned you conned yourself you are a Buddhist and an enlightened Buddhist at that the thing about religion which is really why I brought this story up tonight is something that all of us

[34:21]

should come up against again and again we cannot import ideas or we cannot import Zen Buddhism into America like a Toyota and drive away on the road to enlightenment if we do we are just making a church another church aren't we? so why do we do it the way we do it? why do you do it the way you do it? you have to do it some way you have to do it some way you have to have a content you have to have a container and there is a tradition that has passed it along but the tradition that has passed it along from the Buddha from the very beginning is be a light unto yourselves you need, since we are interdependently arisen there is a past there is causation if all things are already enlightened then they cannot be the cause

[35:21]

for something else enlightenment is already the result it cannot be the cause for something else because there is nothing else outside of what can be enlightened in other words the light and the lamp are the same the light that you see by is the light that you are the light that you are is the light that you see by but that everything is causing everything else is enlightenment birth and death is enlightenment in Dogon's Buddhism whereas earlier birth and death were something you are trying to get out of this world yet by the time you get to Dogon you are no longer trying to overcome it you don't have to buy this I'm just saying that this is what I think they are trying to sell us

[36:21]

or have us look at I don't mean sell it don't buy it necessarily think about it he is asking you should ponder you should study it as well is what he is saying from all angles from the angle that you are here to support me you can all see that it doesn't take very much subtle understanding to see that there is a tendency for such when one realizes that there is an independence at least for me the impression is that it is more of a although I in a sense feel it at times you know there is a brush that goes through me that there is no connecting it back to my next action right good how can you connect it to your next action who would be there to connect it

[37:24]

you see our delusion is our enlightenment in this case the delusion that there is somebody there to connect it to the next thing that there is such a thing as enlightenment Dogon says enlightened people are those who understand delusion and deluded people are those who think they understand what enlightenment is you can't separate the two as soon as we understand enlightenment that is a delusion because we understand there is an I that understands something but that I that understands something was always already the case anyway before you understood it but by practicing you suddenly keep trying to grab onto some aspect of the teaching and you are always always always disappointed eventually well not all people actually some people make a whole career of that but most of us at some point become very dissatisfied or very disappointed with our practice this happens that particular delusion happens to be a very fruitful place to be

[38:26]

because that is a warning that we are already setting up me getting something but you are already set up to get something we are already that something that is set up this is not a matter of putting on new clothes this is a matter of just seeing through the old ones it is not only seeing that the emperor has no clothes on it is seeing that you can't see the emperor period but the emperor is there in the process and the process is realized and authenticated through practice and practice is not just sitting zazen that is just the old meditation way of making a ceremony about sitting still and watching all the phenomena of our mind body and so on arise and fall away from moment to moment then you take that out into the world and practice that which also is realizing and authenticating yes

[39:28]

wherever you are everything is authenticating authenticating ultimate truth exactly as it is but as soon as you say exactly what it is you cannot find out ultimately what it is other than it is just this in other words what Buddhism calls just suchness the suchness of things see the thing about this that is so sterling is we all know this we really do but knowing it doesn't mean that you say I know this now and now I am going to go and start living my life differently just like that you may, you may not most of the most of the practice discussions

[40:30]

that I have had both as a practice so called practice leader you want a reification that is a big one and going to teachers is that there is always a feeling that I am not quite adequate I am not quite getting it right and if you go and say I have got it right if you actually go and say I understand I am already Buddha and then you think there is something you have to do to show it on top of what you just did this is the game of Zen this is where Zen uses concepts and so on to show us the emptiness of our concepts but that they are dependently co-arisen and must be so there is not an I that exists separate from this process that is arising called you and me or it and us or consciousness and suddenly

[41:32]

when we are permeated with a sense like somebody called it like being flooded with what was it melting honey flowing down over you is a sense of joyousness because everything just as it is is already pure is already happy just as it is including all the horror of the world oh I can't buy that you can't just smile at children being destroyed and so on no you wouldn't and you see why you wouldn't it doesn't mean that suddenly that things are perfect is going to put you in a position where you are going to stand out of the way things are because then you have reified yourself and pulled yourself out of the world again which is another way we try to understand Buddhism is by abstracting ourselves from our experience this is my delusion I'm telling you

[42:33]

this is my deluded way of speaking about these things well so let's see what are the parts of this what about there are very interesting things he is born on the night of the Buddha's enlightenment what does that suggest I mean why would they I mean the people that wrote that story long before Kaizen a thousand years before Kaizen or something didn't believe that they used it as a metaphor for what reincarnation he is born in reincarnation like an omen yeah omens play a big part in classical eastern thought and western thought for that matter too in other words religion

[43:35]

and the miraculous we have these scientific materialist minds since the age of enlightenment but not so long ago people in the west thought the same thing very clearly about the miraculousness of things that we have we see the miraculousness of the atom maybe and so on making the kind of anthropomorphic miraculousness how about going through the keyhole I like that one that's pretty good I thought of Alice in Wonderland but that doesn't need to be interpreted literally no but what would the keyhole I mean the interesting image the keyhole but there is an actual rock where people who have gotten to take the rock and squeeze it and leave their fingerprint so when I read that it went through the keyhole I just bought it

[44:36]

I mean I've seen pictures of that rock people actually go there it's a practice and they also have what is that shroud of Jesus from Turin well there are more worlds than are dreamt of and your philosophy if we get to that point where we can where we know this is our world we can walk through worlds I'm looking forward to that will I leave any of my hair in the book but don't you well I don't want to get into this discussion I would love this would already be I mean this already just as it is is about as far out as you can get as far as I can see but there are infinite number of dimensions no question about that you know in a certain state of Samadhi I don't know if it's what Jhana state it is

[45:39]

I had a Korean monk once tell me that at some stage they sit for 7 days without going to sleep they just sit and sit he'd been sitting more than 7 like 14 days of course he'd fall asleep but he just kept sitting at one point he could go through the wall the wall opened away he could see everything through it there was no question about it he was in a super normal state paranormal super normal state he could understand the miraculousness of things a bug flying around his ear was the universe there was no difference there was no difference and all that he went to his teacher and his teacher said it's bullshit that's just how do you call it huh? Makyo but not only Makyo well Makyo are ghosts or you know it's illusion but actually he said there is a state of going into

[46:43]

states of absorption when you can leave your body and the yogis in India they could traditionally do that and some of them still do that like Nareen Karoli Baba what was his name? Nareen Karoli Baba he was one who people swore that Nareen Karoli Baba who could be at two places at once because people would see it at two places at the same time and they say how could that possibly be so I'm not coming from any experience when his teacher said that's bullshit he didn't mean did he just mean that's not he meant that's a distraction he used the word bullshit he didn't mean it wasn't actually there he didn't mean it wasn't actually don't get stuck there it's very appealing to suddenly have this sense of enormous radiant power that you can move around at will it's like flying in your dream

[47:43]

or something like that and that would really be putting a banner out the whole thing about emptiness is to come back into the form aspect of it it's one thing to finally understand what emptiness is and actually experience that and the interdependence of things and the ungraspability of phenomena ultimately but it's another thing then to have to come down off the mountain off the misty mountain peak and that's what this practice is about for us for us in Zen Shiklings already Buddha then it's practice that we do to manifest that in this dimension that we live in called the world which is pretty much our invention our acculturated invention in this story of Ananda he seems to have three parts

[48:45]

to his he's the the attendant to Buddha and he knows all the stories but he doesn't get to go to the this big council meeting because he's not realized he becomes realized and he can attend the council meeting and then he's certified as the holder of the stories but there's still another enlightenment that hasn't happened yet so what does that mean in light of Dogen's view of enlightenment Dogen's view of enlightenment that enlightenment is infinite practice is infinite because enlightenment is manifested in practice practice is infinite he says and because practice is infinite enlightenment is manifested right there that this moment is into infinity so maybe at some point at least according he had to think that next step not only does he need someone like Ananda who can authenticate the teachings that there's somebody like Ananda but that maybe that's a symbol

[49:46]

that there is I don't know what we might call a collective unconscious memory or something that we pass on I don't know I just know that if we played telephone call in this room I could tell him a very simple story and by the time it got to you it would be quite different so even if you remembered the story and passed it along it was very likely to change very quickly so maybe it means something Ananda, Ananda, Ananda Ananda, not Ananda Ananda in your structure of religion particularly in those days remember we talked about the need for having an authentic tradition to pass along thus have I heard but I'm talking I want to hear what your views are you have a few minutes I really like that you brought up infinity I think that

[50:47]

when you read from that that there's always another that sense of infinity what about the frame story that they needed Ananda to compile Buddhist teachings and he wasn't allowed to come is that the better form for something well until you need a certified accountant to bring the stories down if he was not certified by everyone else and having the same understanding then he couldn't be authorized as it were to carry on the tradition or to pass on the tradition you need somebody who is the secretary there to remember it all and of course this is how many sutras are there of the Buddha 4,000 4,000 or something well that's one of them

[51:51]

that's one that's I mean in other words there are endless numbers of sutras and who is it that can account for it 4,000 Anandas if practice authenticates enlightenment enlightenment is all activity what does it mean to say that somebody doesn't practice and that I don't practice does it mean anything well I think Govind Singh would say it does but I think he would also say that if you realize that there was a difference that you had a subtlety of understanding then your life would be practiced but if somebody who first came when I first came to Buddhism I thought that I was separate from practice and so on then before I heard these teachings I mean I haven't yet there hasn't been Ananda yet who's passed on the teachings I could hear it

[52:51]

until you could understand what the distinctions are the subtle distinctions are then you might think that practice as he says practice and realization are two things and once you hear that practice and realization are the same that you're already practicing your life that everybody, stones, walls, pebbles everything is already practicing their life just as it is then you might say to yourself oh that's fine then I don't have to do anything more you could say that but I don't think Govind Singh would be satisfied with that because I think he would say well now that you realize that you can go into the conventional world just as it is in other words you push the limits of the conventional world further and further and they had no limits finally because it's internet these things really inauthenticate mean activity I think that's a big word

[53:54]

for Govind Singh we authenticate practice our activity through the form aspect of emptiness as emptiness or as form can I go back to something from last Wednesday when we were talking about metaphor I thought about it later you know there's a lot of sense in which I understand that I'll speak as metaphor and so on but I sort of understand that sometimes when people are talking they're not actually they're using words they're using language just as we express it as practice well I think I've been able to hear that from speakers and teachers actually I was listening to you today I was listening to you talk about this for a while since we were talking about representation I started to get into this thing well I don't buy it I don't buy your particular presentation and I started to listen a little further this is a representation

[54:57]

what you're saying is semantic but it's practicing I can't say it's practicing well yes you can that's how I heard it you can say it's practicing but we don't use language self-consciously that way when I pick up you say hand me the cup I don't sit to think hand me the cup that's already in place but the sentence hand me the cup is a representation of an activity in the cup but that representation of the activity and the thing itself the cup as a noun verbs and nouns were learned at the time slowly at the time when we were acculturated ourselves perception and language came up together hand daddy the cup a year and a half I began to understand what that means but if we use the cup if we use the cup as a thing we get in trouble if we use language as a thing

[55:58]

if it comes to I'm using the cup like I said I get tired why would you get in trouble? because it's a because I'm attributing some reality to it yes I understand what you're saying but you have to first understand that you must attribute the reality the concept to the thing then through the concept that that's what you're doing you understand the concept deconstructs itself I'm just trying to draw an analogy which is like I'm using language to talk about something you're using language to talk about language but then it's like it's it's a defilement in some sense because the way I speak most of the time I guess what I'm saying is it's not a practice well I think the way I pick up a cup in some sense I would just be talking just talking I think is exactly the Buddha right there

[57:00]

that's just it just what we're doing now no difference, no gap that's Zen right now this is Buddha talking to Buddha but there's a gap here because we don't believe that and the reason we don't believe it because we think that's just an idea about something we think there's going to be some other thing beyond the idea there's something besides our concepts around that might be and that might be true except it won't come to the fore it cannot be articulated until it becomes conceptual you see, that realization is itself suchness so it's not what we're thinking about it's the thinking itself it's the doing itself it's this moment arising and passing away itself as I see it

[58:03]

as I understand Dogen Zenji as I like to think I'm practicing my life but if I grab that and then use that as a model and then of course I'm always bringing that up in front of me and watching myself then I've divided myself again you know how it is when you work on your computer today down there you were just you were absorbed into that work you weren't thinking you weren't standing out of yourself you were just doing that really into it problems of it and so on total engagement of what you call yourself and the objects of your perception no? well I think it's possible to imagine some days I'm really engaged some days I'm not it's the same trick here's my idea about practice it's actually really helpful to say yes but that's your study to see if there is anything behind the idea well it seems to me

[59:05]

I don't know but listening to what I'm what I'm thinking for myself from it is that my attention the quality of my attention is different and that there are times when I am wholeheartedly giving my attention to something and then there's a lot of times ok but the times that you're really not you're not Buddha well it's not whether or not I'm Buddha but it's it's like you said you still have to practice so it's like you know it's like if I'm not really paying attention then I'm not really practicing you're always paying attention alright well let's put it this way it's interesting but it's lousy practice no I disagree at least from this point of view that's lousy practice that's exactly what Dogen's practice is

[60:08]

just that just what you're doing that way everything is arising perfectly to support just what you think is lousy practice that is our delusion in Dogen's energy you must go back to your delusions and one of the delusions is this is lousy practice that's how we live with this kind of dichotomy there's no separation in the dichotomy however so what does greatly understanding delusion mean in particular just this exactly like this there is no separation from greatly understanding delusion and enlightenment than just exactly whatever you think delusion and enlightenment is at that moment and it will change doesn't it from moment to moment what you practice and think of as delusion and enlightenment and that moment depends on everything else in your life I probably like

[61:09]

got a little bit of what you said because this further question was arising which was there's one way of understanding delusion which is well there's looking at it psychologically and looking at this and that and there are a lot of ways to look at our delusions and then I was just thinking that maybe I heard you say there's a way of understanding our delusion which is to see right through it to the enlightenment enlightenment and delusion are the same thing well right enlightenment is the ultimate nature of delusion no? I just switched languages how about going back to the way we learn language but we learn language with a complete sense of transparency like daddy get daddy the cup the word and the action and the thing are all just completely unquestioned just there and so as little children we use words that way they're just there

[62:10]

and they connect and they have power and you can play with them and we get into all kinds of trouble with language as well as we get very good at it and we perhaps become masters of it and only then does it become transparent again well yeah I think you're right one of the things is we usually see language as instrumental as a kind of veil as I said before as a kind of way that it is used like a suit of clothes on top of reality as if it were separate from that reality but it's not separate from that reality we use language to see right now that that's such a thing in language as reality and not separate from reality that's a linguistic convention that I'm using did you have your hand up? no I'm talking to you so I was thinking today I saw this younger girl

[63:11]

and she seemed quite annoying to me that's it she was just quite annoying I mean that's it right? there was nothing else she was just quite annoying Buddha Dharma as I see it is not to make us good little boys and girls there are grumpy Buddhas and there are ethereal Buddhas and there are you know depressed Buddhas there are long branches in Zen and there are short branches and mistreated bugs and that one doesn't what about the guy who got turned into a fox? Dogen Zenji said it was wonderful 500 lives of being a fox is the 500 lives of Buddha that's what Dogen Zenji said about it Dogen Zenji said you can't eat the rice cake in the picture you do eat the rice cake in the picture you made the picture you're painting that picture with your mind you're eating it all the time the whole world is nothing but a painted rice cake in Gabyo in one of this

[64:12]

in Gabyo this is really the quintessential point of view that Dogen Zenji is holding forth here and it's a radical point of view because it really leaves you out in what we call kind of chaos in space there's nothing to get hold of in this and that is what Shinkantaza is when Okamura Shohaku Okamura once said in one of our practices there's no way you can possibly judge your zazen who would judge it? it all once hit me of course what are you doing? always going back to central headquarters checking in David you had it yesterday but today you're not doing so while your mind is all over the place you must really be really bad today so when he said that I understood what Dogen was trying to get at and then I began to get just a taste of the profundity of that thought that is release

[65:14]

into your life just as it is imagine enjoying your life just as it is because as soon as you do it will improve so what's the point of doing something like practicing the precepts if your life is already well that's why people say if I understand this then I won't practice the precepts anymore but if you really understand what I'm saying here you'll already be naturally practicing precepts you won't see the world as something separate from yourself to exploit there also wouldn't be you would just come out of your being I'm understanding as you ask me that question without you asking me that question I couldn't respond to it so immediately I appreciate that this question arises as you and me together that question between us so we're constantly raising these questions among ourselves and looking at them but notice I said among ourselves among us we're telling these stories and as we tell them we refine them

[66:16]

we add on to them it's a practice it's a process it's a dynamic process what we call life anyway I'm tired go ahead also in terms of responding to that or what Andrew said in terms of looking I find it often among my own I didn't really know what was going on in my mind and I didn't accept it so this principle you're saying about I find that if I accept it I'm a lot more intimate and something happens kind of contradictory where if I feel something like annoyed or anything or angry or greedy or anything that I supposedly shouldn't if I just accept that in almost like this parental mind then actually the way I act I mean I may still act unskillfully I don't know but I can kind of feel that I'm not as aggressive and I will project it more

[67:22]

inside myself and also when I see other people with those afflictions I mean the practice makes me more accepting of it so it's kind of a paradox like why if something comes up and I'm annoyed or this or that then there's the thought oh God I'm really losing it I agree that what what Dogen is teaching is really something else it's an amazing teaching and what it is is the divine event well I think we should stop it's a quarter of and I do want to kind of clear up the question of books how many people are getting books tonight and you've signed your names is there somebody from I'm wondering maybe we should leave this with the office I can take it to the office and then if they sell we can just give the money to Charlie I'll leave them back to Charlie yeah they're not

[68:23]

that's what I mean but we should put them somewhere pay Charlie personal order that might be hard to do out of the office we can keep them in a separate envelope for money for them for a couple of days yeah we need I think Zen Center needs to pay maybe we should do it this way Zen Center maybe we should pay Charlie because we can use these in the bookstore right yeah and then we should check with Charlie we should compare it against the list because most of the people they're just not here a lot of people are not here or not coming here's the list this is who that was the list I had another list here Mick, Kate, Ryn, Burke Jackie, Emmanuel, Cedar Kathy, Andrew, Bob

[69:26]

I mean that was Cook those were the cookbooks the cookbooks and then I don't know the next transmission maybe the other one is Cedar, Astrid, Jackie and Carolyn wanted the other one is that right? I want to get rid of the other one too and name off one how many do you have to name off well I've got for this one I've got 1,2,3,4 how many

[69:55]

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