This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good morning. So skit night, parinirvana, I arrive and Mel leaves. Boom, boom, boom. I wonder how it will be for you. I think when we settle into practice period, I think we absorb our experience more fully. And the person leading the practice period becomes iconic. Without our rational mind,

[01:02]

declaring it so, how they're doing what they're doing becomes the way to do Zen. I wonder what it's like. They sort of like lift one out and put another one in. Maybe you'll spend the next couple of weeks thinking, Mel wouldn't have done that. That's not sin. It's not the way Mel does it. Or maybe you won't. You can get to see. And that's that other interesting attribute of practice. We take it in more fully and yet there's a way in which

[02:05]

Just sort of roll with how it is. Okay, it's sunny today. Okay, it's raining today. Okay, I'm in a good mood. Okay, I'm in a bad mood. It's day. It's own character. It's own statement of being. And this is, if you do the arithmetic, we're somewhere around the middle of the practice period. And I would say a good time, and maybe shifting the leader of the practice period also quickens the notion.

[03:07]

Where are you at? Usually our practice is saying, just do it. Just get absorbed in what's happening and don't spend too much time assessing it, reflecting on it, taking it apart by some criteria or other. But I do think in the middle of the practice period, There's a utility, there's a helpfulness in thinking. Okay, where am I at? What have been the dominant themes in my involvement in this practice period? Are there particular things I find Helpful, supportive.

[04:11]

Particular things I find troublesome, difficult. Despite what my mind would say, I just find them annoying. Or particular people. helpful to remember, to acknowledge, to experience that we are this, each one of us, this expression of karmic life. We have this conditioning, assured conditioning. We want what we want and we don't want what we don't want. And we express our wanting through yearning, through grasping, through clinging.

[05:15]

We express our not wanting through aversion, through pulling away from, through pushing away. And that rattles through us. Sometimes in a dominant way and sometimes in a subtle way. Sometimes just how we contract from the morning cold. Sometimes how we anticipate what's next and lose connection to this. And it comes forth in the context of our own psychology, our own habitual being, behaviors, ways of thinking, ways of feeling.

[06:27]

This is karmic life. This is conditioned life. sometimes it's helpful to just take stock. Okay, given that, given that my own being has its own characteristics, its own details of that, where am I at? You know, yesterday, Ilda asked a question, And I answered just about the troublesome nature of our own responses. And I answered saying, the challenge for us is to meet them with awareness. Look at this.

[07:39]

Look at what it is. Not to judge it, not to remedy it, not to fix it, not to feel ashamed for being what we are. It just can be hold it in awareness. Is that so? So can you reflect back on the first half of the practice period? Is that so? Here you are, a human being, displaying, living, being what you are, how you are. Is that so? As I say that, it makes me think of my own Thuravadan roots.

[08:43]

I think many of you know and some of you don't know that even though I was introduced to Zen in Japan, I went to Thailand and practiced Theravadan Buddhism. So I got a good dose of this. I remember once going to my teacher and I was having a hard time. I actually can't remember about what, but it seemed to me like I was having a hard time. really I think I wanted his reassurance that I was a good student that I was practicing hard his sympathy for my difficulties and that sort of stuff and and he just looked at me totally dispassionately no is that so is that

[09:53]

who you are right now? Is that what you are right now?" I must say, at the time, I was quite disappointed by his response. And maybe now I would say, can we say his lad soul with a kindness? Of course, it's the foolishness of a human condition to chase after what you want and to run away from what you don't want. But still, it hurts. The consequences of it in a whole amazing variety of ways cause us discomfort.

[10:53]

pain, hardship, suffering. But can we hold even that? Is that so? Can our matter-of-factness be matched by a kindness, a patience, and a compassion? influential streams in my practice are Thiravadan Buddhism, Soto Zen, and Rinzai Zen. And probably you're going to hear some of that come out in one way or another. I did talk to Mel yesterday.

[11:56]

We talked about what he'd been teaching. And sure you would think of what he was teaching but this is what he told me what he'd been teaching and I thought okay I'll follow from there but I think as some of you know I put great store in the basics really if there isn't a palpable way in which we're contacting our experience on an ongoing basis even the most exquisite dharmas will have an abstract flavor to them and if we're contacting what's going on for us in a palpable way even the simplest dharmas will start to illuminate

[13:00]

the path. I'll start to illuminate the structure of our own karmic being. So that's what I would initially offer you, this kind of reflection. Because this reflection quickens our intention and our vow. And the great beauty of being in the middle of practice period is our vow doesn't have to take on so much articulated expression. starting to become more of a feeling, more of a sensibility in our disposition.

[14:09]

You know, our constant efforts to be present, to be aware, is more of a yoga than an abstract thought. A yoga of connecting, a yoga of making contact. How to stay close to that sensibility. How to see how it can come up in contrast to the persistent workings of our karmic agendas. Not to set them in opposition, But can our vow be so foundational that indeed it invites, it supports an awareness of our karmic agendas?

[15:23]

In the Mahayana, in Soto Zen, one thing Mel and I talked about yesterday was Jiju Zammai. Awareness of the Self. Is that so? Both Linda and Greg independently asked me, what are you going to teach? The usual? Sila Samadhi Prajna. And I said, I think I'm going to try to give it different names this time. My Theravadan roots. The basic behaviors of practice, the engagement of practice, and the insights of practice.

[16:32]

Because to my mind, as I said, This is foundational. This is what will allow the other teachings to give us a vocabulary, give us a way of thinking about it. Help us hold our karmic life in a different context, in a different frame of reference. I must confess to you that I do consider Tozan's five ranks to be a little dangerous not because not simply because they have a sense of progression within them but they have an exquisite sophistication

[17:52]

But in the heritage of our tradition, its wave follows wave. Sometimes our experience gives birth to a description of existence, and then sometimes the presented dharma gives way of reframing our experience. If one wave gets too far ahead of the other, then it becomes more abstract. And still in this process of transition, I look to you for clues.

[18:57]

great thing for me of just being here the little bit I was while Mel was here, is in watching him do what he does, it helped me see some of what I do. Oh, it's not what I do, I do this. You know, it's not to say one style is better than the other, they're just different. But I look to you for clues. What's it like to go through this kind of transition? To help me help you. But in general,

[20:03]

trajectory of practice period I think of is we renew our vow, we renew our intention. In some ways the process of practice is letting that vow sink in. Sink in so thoroughly that all those agendas that arise out of our karmic life, rather than being definitive of reality or definitive of our behaviors, they're the example, the current example of, is that so? Hmm. Here's the state of mind of now. Here's the way of thinking.

[21:05]

Is that so? It's my hope, you know, that I think that Mel, Sojin, Roshi offers a wonderful kind of reassurance. Not quite sure what I offer. But I think it's a wonderful compliment to vow. That our vow doesn't stiffen us. Our vow doesn't make us more uptight whether we relax into our vow.

[22:22]

But the truth is of practice all of us do all sorts of things. It's just how it is. It's just the messiness of a human condition. And while in Chikantaza, there is an exacting request. And I would also say there's an exacting involvement and expression of that request. But there's also this enormous receptivity. We open up and be present for the full array of the human condition. As you're discovering this process, sometimes it may feel like you're opening up to chaos.

[23:24]

I often think of the Greek myth, Pandora's box. You know, you take the lid off the box and all hell breaks loose. interesting, within that myth, what's still in the box? Wisdom. The other side of the myth, of all the flurry of activity that come out of the box, as each one is met and resolved, it creates compassion. Shikhan Taza has something of this. As we establish this awareness, quite naturally it will stimulate inquiry.

[24:54]

Sometimes it might be articulated. Is that so often has implicit in it a request for going beyond. Not just being contained and defined by that particular habit pattern. A different process from judging it, judging yourself, setting about fixing it. It's more like finding yourself saying, reality happens in this, between these parameters. As you find yourself seeing it, something in you just simply knows that's not true. Reality is more than I think. An inquiry, a request.

[26:03]

That way we engage the very process of mind that has an innate curiosity. We engage that innate quality of beginner's mind. And it's extraordinarily stimulating and creative. keeps a freshness. What I would hope for is that somehow as we give ourselves over to the schedule that we keep a freshness.

[27:09]

I remember something Mel presented in the last couple of days, I'm not quite sure where, but he was saying, when the conformity becomes fixed and unchanging, it loses something. How will we do that together? How will we completely absorb ourselves in this schedule and then how will we stay fresh? How will we keep exploring what makes it utterly authentic for us under these conditions? So I welcome your comments, suggestions and questions in that regard. naturally right now I don't have much else to say but I wonder if you have any questions or comments about what I said about what's going on for you or the practice period yes Michael wanted to

[28:55]

Just ask you about some of your beginning comments about where you come from and the school of thoughts shaped you, especially with Thera Vaz and Buddhism. I've always found myself very comfortable with how you bring us back to the basics using that background, but I've had other people say things to me that brought up questions, so I just thought, well, I'll pose it to you. Okay. Which is, when Brother David comes here, we're often asked about You know, should we follow what practice or should we do like the s'mori sport? We talk about digging a deep hole and sticking with that deep hole to see where it goes, to see the extent of it. You know, like Suzuki Roshi saying that the powerful thing was to see something to its end. And so what I've heard people say is, yeah, that's great what they teach in Theravada Buddhism and some of this stuff around, you know, their practices and some of the basics, but isn't that really digging another hole? Isn't that thinning out where we could go if we just stuck with the basics of Soto Zen and just kept it at that?

[30:02]

And so I have an emotional reaction that says, no, I kind of like it the other way, but then I think, well, is that just my emotional reaction? So I'm curious what you have to say about that. Hmm. me in getting involved in different traditions I didn't do so because I thought one was inadequate and needed to be supplemented by teachings from another and honestly be more accurate to say something like I was following my heart

[31:07]

Soto Zen was always, even before I got involved in Theravadan Buddhism, Soto Zen was my core practice identity. And I just felt that the teachings, as how they were presented by the Pali Canon, helped me understand how soto zen presented itself. I think it's utterly implicit in soto zen that the core practice is awareness. I think it's utterly implicit in soto zen that the core practice is sila samadhi pranya. that that's how it is.

[32:11]

But I think those core formulations help us. I think the notion of shikantaza can become can become misleading if it doesn't have a solid commitment to the basics? I don't know if that answered your question, but that was the response I had. Did that answer your question? I think it opens up on a few other questions, but it also gives me a context of where you're coming from, which is very helpful. In regard to Shigantaza, Would you say that, I've heard it said that when this process or this idea was reintroduced to Japan by Ehe Doga from Champ Buddhist China, that his audience had a certain understanding of meditation and meditative practice already.

[33:34]

And that this isn't where people coming into the monastery day one would start. that actually some of the practices that we might find in other traditions, like in Thailand, would have been things that in regard to just one point of focus of following your breath or that sort of thing would have already been cultivated before actually jumping into just sitting with what is. Would you say that that is a piece of something that would be in alignment with what you're saying? My experience, and is my experience, in Thailand and in Japan, there was an understanding of the core of practice. And then interestingly, for many people mixed in with it, there was a kind of mythology that coming as converts, you know, a lot of it we were and maybe still are oblivious to.

[34:36]

Like in both those traditions, there were offerings to different spirits and gods. With the purity of our convert minds, we look to this pure stream of teaching. And in both those countries, a lot of stuff's been added in. But I would say, that those core sensibilities are there. And I find that from the monks and from the people who came to support the temples. And I do think it's helpful for us to find our relationship with them too. And maybe You know, personally, as I find a deeper relationship to those things that I'm calling mythologies and superstitions, maybe I'll have a different kind of appreciation of them.

[35:45]

But as of now, I find it curious, as Bernard Four says, that in almost every Zen temple in Japan, there is an altar to the river god. Think about that. The tongue is probably thinking about where he'll put it. Any other comments or questions? only difficult if you resist it. And I think as a true beginner, sometimes it's difficult because of its unfamiliarity, but also resistance in my, according to my belief or my

[37:06]

my understanding of it, or my understanding of it, is that I'm not always sure why I'm resistant. So that in itself is a difficulty. That in itself is a difficulty? I think so. So I'm wondering, do you see resistance as a sort of an obstacle to practice? Or is it more like a tool? And I think that's a great question, Mary. And one answer, I think it's a question that is answered in the doing. The answer to that question we discover in paying close attention to how we're behaving. and how we're feeling, what emotional and thought processes we have to what's going on.

[38:14]

It's like the notion of a distraction. Well, if our sense of presence and awareness is wide, the signs of footsteps are just part of presence. If our sense of awareness is more contained, then this is taking us outside of it. This is a distraction, a separation. And similarly with anything that arises for us, if we define it as other than, if we say that's a distraction, that's a problem, the very process of labeling it as such stirs something up. And that's, what I was saying was, that's how we get ourselves into trouble. But the interesting thing about practice is, we do get ourselves into trouble.

[39:24]

And in a funny way, to kind of, to neither be surprised or upset about it. as best we can, to not be surprised or upset. Because it's illustrative of what's going on for us. And there's something in the human condition that when everything's going smoothly, we just flow along. It's when something pokes up and causes a problem we're inclined to say, what's that? What's happening? And then in that way, it attracts our attention and we can start to explore it. I am labeling this as something problematic, something separate.

[40:30]

Sometimes the very thing we're labeling in that way has a lot to teach us. So in a way, this is part of the expression of shikantaza. It's breadth. It's encompassing and affirming of whatever arises within the process of our existence. Okay. I'll settle for that. This is similar to Mary's question. Because I realized that I know quite well how I operate inside. And, for example, resistance, anger, and the immediate pushback.

[41:41]

And I read this story about the Vietnam War once, that the Vietcom did not have any way of spying around the US Army's camp. So what they did is they simply figured out that they made themselves capture, knowing very well that they want to put in a helicopter to take an incident. So they simply let themselves capture. And they looked around. Next day, the camera, so they can rescue them. And they knew that helicopter out. So I was thinking of that I have my anger and my resistance and all these good qualities. So how can I use that instead of trying to fight it? Because most of his teachings are And what I would go back to, Andrew, was this notion of a fundamental commitment to awareness?

[42:59]

When the mental formation comes up and it defines reality and we're living inside that definition, Well, of course we're just reaffirming the patterns of thought and feeling that have been established. But when it's engaged with awareness, to use your analogy, we get to see it from a different perspective. Oh, look at that. I mean... Why do we get angry? Because something in the experience is hurting us and this is our response. That in itself can be very instructive when we see it in real time. Now, when we start to see in addition, who am I when I'm hurt? What sorts of things hurt me?

[44:02]

How is I perceiving this situation or this interaction? or this mental formation that was hurtful. Awareness will help bring that forward. And when the awareness is bright, that can be extraordinarily helpful. I noticed that I get, for example, I am angry and then I find the reason for being angry. that I'm angry because of that. But in reality, it's nothing to do with it. I'm just angry or frustrated or so on and so forth. And then I find the reason for it. And then I say, oh, that's why I'm angry. And it's not true. Well, I would suggest it may well be

[45:02]

what's what's called the approximate cause you know there is this patterned propensity to respond a certain way but this incident this proximate cause stimulates that I have this disposition and this triggers it and maybe the way I am describing it if I explore it, I'll discover something under that immediate description. I'm angry because this is a nasty person. Well, if I explore that, I might find underneath that description is a different description of what's happening. But with awareness, not so much... we find the absolute mental formation.

[46:09]

Because there is no such thing. Each mental formation is a construct. What the Buddha's teaching is, we see the process that's going on. And in seeing the process, we're starting to glimpse the path beyond being stuck within the mental formations. One last question. Please, Margaret. Paul, I came up with something that you're really good at. And that is inviting us to feel different stakes through our body. I mean, I've always learned from you, you know, emotions have their place and their...

[47:11]

They're quite distinct in the body. And responses bring with them body feelings. And I'm wondering if those feelings are, those body senses are ever unreliable. I would say sometimes mysterious. Sometimes we conclude in a way that's inaccurate. But just as a phenomena, the great gift

[48:14]

experiencing the phenomena of the moment is it's making no assertion about what is so you know sometimes we talk about the pure sign to the stream the phenomena of hearing is suchness so in that sense It has that core. Can we contact it as that? That's our aspiration. Will we embellish it? Most likely. And can we hold that with the wide awareness? both aspects of shikantaza.

[49:16]

Does it have this rigor of exact attention? And does it have this all-embracing width that, okay, now this construct. And this construct rattles through this habituated being, stirring the images, the memories, the emotions that it does. And as I was saying earlier, we don't chart this pure path through conditioned existence. We just don't. Such is the nature of our habit energies. We go all over the place. Just watch yourself for ten minutes and so on.

[50:17]

Try at the end of a 30-minute sit to recall all the ways your mind conjured up thoughts and memories and whatever it did. It's a big challenge to do. And yet, we do have this extraordinary capacity to return to vow. in us. We have this extraordinary capacity to hear and to see and to feel and to touch and to smell. The phenomena. So thank you. And please let me know and let the Tanto know practice leader know how you're doing with this transition.

[51:29]

It's interesting information for us. Of course, it's happening anyway, but still. Step by step, we're discovering how to practice. And really, your experience is valuable. Thank you. For more information, visit sfzc.org and click Giving.

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