Kathleen, aren't you going to offices and directors? Yeah. Don't you have to do that? Three minutes? No, that's okay. And Blanche also. Here comes Kathleen. Ha, ha, ha. So I just wanted to just kind of remind us of what we're doing and where we are.

[01:15]

We've just been sitting for, you've been doing the intensive for what, 10 days or something? 10 days? Long time. The 11th day or 12th day or something like that. And it's appropriate to be wherever it is you are. it's kind of like going into a tunnel, and there's light on one end of the tunnel in the beginning. And in the middle of the tunnel, it's kind of dark often.

[02:15]

And we chug along in the tunnel until we get near the end of the tunnel when the light comes back a little bit. So... So... I think we should know where we are in the process because it'll give us a little bit of perspective. We're doing something that is difficult. It's not easy. It's really difficult. And partly it's difficult because our sweet little separate selves that we've depended on for so long has an idea of what we're doing and does not like it. The self that we took so many years to build and has helped us really for all this time, it really doesn't have anything to do in the present moment.

[03:24]

When we're really present, we don't need it. So it does its damnedest to keep us occupied with other things. And it doesn't really care too much what those other things are. So if it's got our attention with bliss, fine. If it has our attention with enormous amounts of suffering, fine. It's okay. The kind of trick about the whole thing from our point of view is that all we need to do with the content of this mind that's going on and on and on, or the body, the emotions that are going on and on and on, is to just surrender to whatever exactly it is where we're at.

[04:25]

It's really, really, really okay. It's okay if we're kind of miserable. I mean, if you can bear that. It really is. It's okay if we're uncomfortable. It's okay if we're... You know, it's okay if we are in any place in any of the realms, if it's the hell realm or the animal realm, the hungry ghost realm, human realm, jealous gods, gods, it's okay. It's really, really okay. It's okay ultimately because the one, [...] the oneness, the one life self we are.

[05:29]

That we are. It includes the pain, the suffering. Nothing is excluded. We don't have to remember something that we have. We already are like it. We are. So if we are enough, if we're just patient, yeah. If we're patient, if we just kind of positive conditions and so on and so forth, it's okay if we... Thank you so much, Judge. Because it turns out... And kind of an interesting thought here.

[06:43]

It turns out what is actually, what is healing? What is going to so-called transform? Only from the point of view of delusion. There's nothing to transform. We don't have to work so hard at transforming any. But from the point of view... Oh, it's the antenna. It's a connection. Okay, good.

[08:16]

You know, so it's only from the point of view of... Okay. Oh, I see. I just mopped up the antenna there. The antenna's squished. Lifeness is going on. Just like the battery. To do, be aware of it. And awareness. There's not.

[09:18]

Don't have. We don't have to do nothing. All we have to do is let ourselves be in the present moment. If it's not okay, then we're going to struggle with it. Trungpa defined the small self as struggle. That's how he defined it. That's pretty interesting. So if we just surrender... If we can just surrender. Then over. with some kind of awareness of it to be in touch with it

[10:40]

whatever realm you happen to be in. And hopefully don't hold on to any of it. That's all. If we just can let the thing flow a little bit, just flow. Don't hold on. Kind of stay on. And with the kind of... Don't struggle too much with it. Surrender. If as it is, we'll take care of itself. So there are five traditional things that prevent us from doing that. I want to mention them because we're going to be doing seshin pretty soon. And we should know what particular hindrance is our particular hindrance. If we're familiar with it, it really helps. But the thing is, if you're in a place where you're indulging, just know that that's happening.

[12:19]

Watch what it ends up to be, whether you suffer or not by indulging. It's awareness that really makes the difference. If that's where you're at, then that's where you're at. That's okay. Ultimately, fine. It'll settle itself if we just stay awake. So the first classical hindrance is wanting or greed. Some of us are greed types. Greed is characterized by a sense of poverty, a sense of lack based on separation. The deepest kind of wanting is based on what Katagiri Roshi called thirsting desire. It's that even when everything goes perfectly well and there's a moment of just stopping and you kind of check in with yourself, there's this kind of vague sort of thought of, it's not enough, that kind of thing.

[13:25]

It's there all the time. Katakiri Roshi called it the scream. It's a very quiet scream. The second one is aversion. Some people are just, you know, have a lot of anger, hate, rage or even just plain old slight averting. It's good to know which one our tendency is because there are different ways to take care of these things. from being present. All of these hindrances are about not being present. Yeah. Sloth is a really interesting one. That was never, I never had such trouble with sloth, but there are three kinds of sloth or torpor.

[14:29]

One is just because you're tired and you really just need to sleep. So you come to Zazen and you poop right out. And that's okay. Nothing wrong with it. Just know that you're really tired. You need some extra sleep. You go to sleep. But the other two are a little tricky. One is that you fall asleep because you're avoiding some feeling that you don't want to recognize. So watch out for that one. And the other one is that... Now this is a really interesting one for sitters, for Zazen people. Your... not exactly asleep. You're awake and you think you're sitting and you're even calm, but there's no energy of awakeness there. That kind of Zazen is very typical for Soto Zen people. We're awake-ish, which is not Zazen. You have to generate energy and an alert kind of crisp awareness.

[15:36]

You need energy to rise. Make sure your posture is really awake. Open your eyes if you need to. Put water on your face before you come in. Know that that's what you're doing. Maybe make yourself into a little bit tighter... You know, posture, so there's just a teeny, I don't, don't, don't do this, okay? Just a little bit more pain, sometimes that helps. Anger, what, yeah, what to do with it? Well, you know, as with all of these things, ultimately what to do is to be upright in the midst of it. Start with the smallest kinds of irritating. Make sure you're able to be upright, not grabbing or averting from little irritations. And slowly, the bigger ones you can deal with and sit still. Anger is just energy.

[16:39]

It's kind of pleasant, actually, because it's very energetic. I like anger myself. Although... You know, the Dalai Lama says, of all of the things, anger is never helpful. I mean, it was just, you know, like, never. I thought that was really interesting. And true. The next one is restlessness. Restlessness is neat. It's just a whole extra energy. It's like buying into entertainment. You know, being caught by your thoughts all the time, just really generating a lot of energy around distractions. And Suzuki Roshi said to sit with that is to put your mind like in a very wide pasture, like a cow in a big pasture. Or sometimes it helps to vision like a desert, some place that has vast spaces.

[17:40]

Or the ocean, looking out over the ocean so your mind has enough space to settle down. If you try to really concentrate with restlessness, it's like putting a lot of energy in a very small room and it just goes like ping-ponging all over the place. So a wide field is better for restlessness. And doubt. Doubt. Doubt, of course, is the worst one because it undermines the practice. So what's recommended is, if you're not sitting zazen, is to talk to somebody, to get your questions out there and see whether or not you, whatever your question is, just put it out, talk it out with somebody. But when you're sitting zazen, I think the most important thing is just to note, oh, here's my friend, insidious doubt. I know you, come with me, we're going to sit, it's okay. Just right now, for this period, I'm going to really try to be present.

[18:42]

And then I'll listen to you later. And with a kind of a gentle but firm intention, you just bring yourself back to the present moment. All right. So mostly the reason why I want to talk about these things today is just because... it's hard what we're doing. And wherever it is that we are, it's okay. Just keep going. Just bring your tired little body to the zendo. Sit down. Try to be present. If you don't, it's okay. It's also fun. It's also kind of and joyous. And in a way, more than that, it's just life doing itself.

[19:49]

So you can just sit there and open to it, whether you're having a miserable time or a wonderful time, it doesn't really matter. If awareness is there watching all this stuff, oh, I'm miserable, far out. Like that. The sunshine boy. Okay, now let's get down to our text. So yesterday we talked about Parakalpada, Paratantra, and Paranaspana. And how about somebody else? Does somebody else have a definition of Parakalpada? Anybody at all? Make-believe. What else? Yes.

[20:56]

Completely conceptual, mental event. What else? Well, samsara is suffering, the world of suffering, the deluded world of suffering. But this is kind of specific. It imagines solidity and inherent existence where there is none. And its essencelessness is exactly that, that no characteristics can be found in it. It's completely a fabrication. Yes? That's the thing they're thinking about.

[22:10]

Yeah. This paratantra is dependent co-rising, that what arises depends on something else before happening. It depends actually on everything else. And its essencelessness is that fact, that because it depends on everything else to arise, there is no inherentness, solidity, separation there.

[23:15]

In that way, dependent-carizing and emptiness look at each other. So that's, I think, in a certain kind of way, the clearest one. Paranaspana is just life as it is. And its essencelessness is just that, that that is the way life is, without any inherent existence or... solidity or anything like that. And the way we relate to such a thing is to just not put anything extra on whatever it is that arises. And so I'm going to read you my very favorite story just about that you know. I tell you this story a lot, but I've never really read the whole thing to you because it's a little bit long. you know, let me read, before I do that, I think I'll read 24.

[24:20]

This is from Wood, the one that Barnaby has and that's put back here. I think this one is kind of good. Verse 24, the imagined nature is without self-nature by definition. That's pretty clear. The dependent nature, again, does not come into existence by itself. Therefore, it lacks a self-nature. It And the perfected nature is absence of self-nature itself, or just this. This is 25.

[25:43]

Let's read 25 before I read this. The third or parinaspana is the ultimate meaning of events because it is also suchness. Since it remains such all the time, it indeed is a mere concept. mirror in the sense of just and just in the sense of not adding anything to it. I think this is a really important part of this teaching. I think I'll read you the... No, I'll read that later. It's a really important part of the teaching and I think if we could understand what this just is, it'll be very helpful to us because it doesn't say just when it's okay That's not what it means. And it doesn't mean just in the sense of only. It means just in the sense of that's it. Right what's in front of you is it. And that's what we relate to.

[26:44]

It means not adding anything. And it's so simple in a certain kind of way. and so close to us that we miss it. We just can't believe it. And the reason we can't believe it is because in front of it is all of the veils and distractions and imaginings and senses of separation and so on and so forth, which we believe. And because we do, we can't just let ourselves surrender to relating with just what has come to be right smack in front of us. which is what you have a chance to do in Zazen. This is an interesting point, what Anna was saying the other day. It is the only thing that we're going to know.

[27:45]

If we leave it alone at just that and not give it any further meaning, like, for example, it's real... or substantial, leaving it alone is what is recommended. Just, you know, somebody says, get the chair. And you don't have to do anything with it. You don't have to think the chair is a, you don't even have to think that the chair represents this ultimately. I mean, if I turned this upside down and broke it up and put it into the fire, it'd be firewood. Okay? But if somebody says, go get the chair, you'd get this right now instead of this. It's just that simple. It's very simple. It's very kind of subtle in a profound sort of way.

[28:50]

Yes, exactly. Yes, exactly. So, for example, a thought in Zazen, that's it. And you can label it. Labeling, sometimes for some people, labeling is really good, especially if you have recurrent thoughts. Just say jealousy and then come back. jealousy, come back. And you don't have to impute it with some kind of meaning beyond just the thought going by. What? Yeah, it's the nature of everything. All phenomena have these characteristics. All phenomena have these characteristics.

[30:00]

All phenomena have just what they are, how they've arisen. That's suchness. All phenomena are dependently co-arisen. They depend on other things to arise. And all phenomena are imbued, from our point of view, with this delusion of solidity or separation or inherent existence. Except when... we no longer, well, it keeps going, right? Except when we no longer believe that that's the truth. That's all. Yeah, right, which is brought to us in exactly the way Vasubandha is talking about. That's right. So that when we reify externality, that reification in itself is completely a delusion. It's an illusion that we believe in. And then we act as if that's true.

[31:02]

That's the whole problem. We act as if we really believe that everything is just separate, solid chunks of things. When it's not, everything is really a process, a function of life happening all by itself. And if we allow it to be that way, then we have a chance of staying current. with what's actually happening. And when we do that, we don't drag the past or invent the future. We just relate just to what is going on. So here's this story. This is a story I call just the just. Maybe I don't know if I should read the whole entire thing too. Too long. I'll read the beginning and then a little bit at the middle and then I'll end. So anyway, it's about Bahia, not a queen, really. Thus have I heard, at one time the Lord was staying near Shravati in the Jeddah wood at Anathabandika's monastery.

[32:08]

At that time, Bahia of the Barcloth was living by the seashore at Suparaka. He was respected, revered, honored, venerated, and given homage, and was one who obtained the requisites of robes, alms, food, lodging, and medicines. When he was in seclusion, this reflection arose in the mind of Bahiya of the Barcloth. Am I one of those in the world who are Arhats or who have entered the path of Arhatship? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then Bahiya left the Jedha Grove, entering Srivasti. He saw the Lord walking for alms food, pleasing, lovely to see, with calm senses and a tranquil mind, attained to perfect poison, calm, controlled, a perfect one, watchful, with restrained senses.

[33:10]

On seeing the Lord, he approached, fell down with his head at the Lord's feet and said, Teach me Dhamma, Lord, teach me Dhamma. so that it will be for my good and happiness for a long time. Upon being spoken to thus, the Lord said to Bahia, the barge cloth, It's an unsuitable time, Bahia. We are going for arms food. A second time, he asked, Teach me Dhamma, Lord, teach me the Dhamma, so that it will be for my good and happiness for a long time. A second time the Lord said, it's an unsuitable time, Bahia. We are going for alms food. A third time, Bahia said to the Lord, it is difficult to know for certain. Please teach me Dhamma so that it will be for my good and happiness for a long time. See, the way I tell the story is much better. And then he said this, Bahia, you should train yourself thus.

[34:16]

In the seen will be merely what is seen. In the heard will be merely what is heard. In the sensed will be merely what is sensed. In the cognized will be merely what is cognized. In this way, Bahiya, you should train yourself. When, Bahiya, in the seen there is merely what is seen, and in the cognized merely what is cognized, then you will not... identify with it. You will not find a self there, and you will not grasp after that. At that time, there will be no here and no there and no in between. Just this, Bahia, is the end of suffering. And then, like I told you before, Bahia... continued on, and then he did get gored by an ox.

[35:19]

Do you want to know the end of the story? The end of the story is, not long after the Lord's departure, a cow with a young calf attacked Bahiya of the birch cloth and killed him. And the Lord, having walked for alms food in Shravati, was returning from the alms round with a number of beakers, And departing from the town, he saw that Bahiya of the barge cloth had died. Seeing this, he said to the bhikkhus, the monks, Take Bahiya's body, put it on a litter, carry it away and burn it. Make a stupa for it, for your companion in the holy life has died. Then the Buddha said, Monks, Bahiya of the barge cloth was a wise person. He practiced according to Dhamma and did not trouble me by disputing about Dhamma. He said, monks, bahiya of the barge cloth has attained final nirvana.

[36:31]

Then, on realizing its significance, the Lord uttered on that occasion this inspired utterance. where neither water nor yet earth nor fire nor air gain a foothold. There gleam no stars, no sun sheds light. There shines no moon, yet there is no darkness reigning. When a sage has come to know this for himself through his own experience, then he is freed from form and formless, freed from pleasure and pain. This inspired utterance was spoken by the Lord. So I did hear. Okay. Oh, scene only in the scene, that section? If for you there will be just the scene in the scene, and if for you or when for you there will be just the herd in the herd and through the senses, of course, and when for you

[37:39]

There will be just the cognized or the thought in the thought. Then you will not... He's writing it down. Then you will not identify with it. And then there will be no here and no there and no in between. And that will be the end of suffering. That's suchness. Just a sense of self.

[38:49]

No problem. Not a problem. It's just an idea. Now, here's the interesting part. Well, it's all interesting, but... As long as consciousness does not terminate in mere concept, so long will the dispositions for the twofold grasping not cease. As long as the mind does not stop at just this, just sound, just a thought, just a sight, as long as it doesn't stop, if it adds anything extra to it, then grasping at self or other will continue.

[39:58]

Indeed, number 27, indeed one who on account of that grasping were to place something before herself or himself saying, this is mere concept will not stop at just this. So in other words, even if you say, oh, I'm doing this right, I'm stopping at mereness, that in itself is grabbing onto mereness and making it an object. not a problem if you're seeing it. Isn't that neat?

[41:09]

Totally great. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Yes. Yes. And in fact, they call sometimes Shikhanda the object plus awareness because there is not self and other. There is just awareness happening. I was going to read Maha'ati a little bit. I think you brought that up. Because, you know, I don't know, I think ultimately we all Buddhists do basically the same thing at the end of the story. Because at the end of the story, when the self is, or manas, is relaxed and released, and the tendencies, the habit tendencies are...

[42:18]

finished you know our karmic event from the past is finished then what is left is who we are and then we would say our original nature you know i used to well anyway i used to hate that word original nature All right, this is from that book Mudra again, and this is Maha'ati, which is one of the... It's accomplished Tibetan, one of the accomplished Tibetan understandings and practices, and it's very like our way, it seems to me. The Maha'ati, which is beyond conceptions and transcends both grasping and letting go, Okay? You got just there, right?

[43:19]

Maha'ati, which is beyond conceptions and transcends both grasping and letting go. Beyond conceptions doesn't mean no conceptions. It just means don't be bothered by them. It's the essence of transcendental insight. The thing is, when we first start practicing, we think that these words that they use for these things are way far away from us because they sound so profound. But they're not. It's really very close. The whole thing is very close because it's us. It's just so close. We miss it. This is the unchanging state of non-meditation in which there is awareness but no clinging. Isn't this what we've been studying? There's awareness but no clinging. And if you cling, fine. Just be aware of it and don't be bothered by it. It's a difference between clinging with a self and clinging without a self.

[44:20]

One is Buddhists clinging and the other one is regular old clinging. I'm not kidding. Well, no. One is like... Yes, you're attached, but you're not holding. You just feel that kind of attachment. It's not coming from a place of self. You're not coming from a place of I need something or I whatever. And you're not separate from it. So, for example, if you have pain, suffering, if you're not separate, if you're not divided with that suffering, you're really... Purely suffering, objectless suffering, just suffering, just like objectless awareness, just suffering. You're suffering just as much as a deluded person is suffering, but it's not, I was going to say it's not suffering.

[45:29]

And it isn't. It's not. It's a different, it feels different. It's clear and painful, but it's not ragged and endless and and trying to push it away and putting it on people or trying yourself. It's not that kind of suffering. It just hurts. Clear, not a problem. That's suffering without self. And it makes it for a very different kind of life. It doesn't mean that you're not in pain. It just means that you're not suffering it. Yeah. Yep, that's right.

[46:30]

And it turns out if the struggle part is gone, then a lot of the stuff that we've been struggling with that we think is so important, it kind of... Maha'ati is of the greatest simplicity. It just is what is. It cannot be shown by analogy. Nothing can obstruct it. It's without limitation and transcends all extremes. It's clear-cut nowness which can never change its shape or color. When you become one with this state, the desire to meditate itself dissolves and you are freed from the chain of meditation and philosophy and conviction is born with you. The thinker has deserted. There is no longer any benefit to be gained from good thoughts, and no harm is to be suffered from bad thoughts. They're just thoughts, just the cognized in the cognized. That's it.

[47:33]

Look out for the subtle hindrance of trying to analyze experiences. This is a great danger. The remedy is the wisdom of nowness. It's a mistake to try to concentrate on emptiness after meditation, intellectually to regard everything as a mirage. Primordial insight is a state which is not influenced by undergrowth of thoughts. It's a mistake to be on guard against the wandering mind or to try and imprison the mind in an ascetic practice of suppressing thoughts. Interesting? So delusion is not a problem. They're just thoughts. Point by. The state of non-meditation is born in the heart when one no longer discriminates between meditation and non-meditation, and one is no longer tempted to change or prolong the state of meditation.

[48:36]

In other words, just awareness. When we speak of clarity, we are referring to that state which is free from sloth and dullness. The absence of thoughts does not mean unconsciousness or sleep or withdrawal from the senses, but simply being unmoved by conflict. Concepts. Don't be bothered with it. Of course, you know, easier said than done, but that's our effort. Then he says about voidness, don't make it into a thing. If the meditator is able to use whatever occurs in their life as the path, the body becomes a retreat hut.

[49:40]

He or she does not need to add up the number of years they have been meditating and does not panic when shocking thoughts arise. Awareness remains unbroken. like that of an old person watching a child at play. So I think that's a really good suggestion that when we're sitting in meditation and these thoughts that usually would distract us or we would want to rush after them are happening, just think that you're listening to some child talking. Yes, yes, I know. I want this. Yes, yes, yes. I know you do. I know you do. So we can't ignore them. They're actually happening. But we can relate to them in a different kind of way. And if we're caught, fine. And just some gentleness with the realization that this takes a while and it's not going to happen overnight. And those thoughts ultimately are so-called deluded thoughts are awake thoughts anyway, ultimately.

[50:48]

So we don't have to struggle with it so much. We just have to... gently come back and remind ourselves that the practice that we're trying to do is just simply allow the awareness, which is what we are anyway, to be birthed. Not even birthed, to be exposed. Be, just to be, plain. So I was going to read you the Trungpa at the end, but I don't think I need to. know what I'd like to do tomorrow we'll get to the end of it tomorrow anyway because there's so few but I'm wondering if maybe tomorrow we can just go around the room and somebody could say their own version of verse 1 and their own version of verse 2 and their own version of verse 3 and so on and we can maybe do the whole thing by you know just reading it

[51:54]

through the whole, you know, everybody. The best, you know, your best shot of whatever you think it is. Do you think that we could do that? Is anybody making your own version, sort of? You're not? If you are, I'd call on you. If you're not, then don't raise your hand, and I won't call on you. So let me just, do I have the whole thing? I didn't bring my Kalupahana. I wanted to just go over it a little bit. Thanks. I want to say one other thing about how it is that we suffer. You know, there are compassion practices that we do that can help when we are in difficulty.

[52:56]

Tonglen is ostensibly simple. It's hard to do sometimes. We slip right off it. But if we just do the kind of basic, kind of easy version of it, if you're suffering and you know you're suffering, you don't know what to do with it, and you can't kind of get out of it, sometimes it's really helpful just to feel like you, because you know how much painful it is, how painful it is for you, then you might, you know, in us, we really do want to relieve everybody of suffering. I mean, inside, all of us, I think, feel that way. So you can kind of draw on that very deep yearning to help people in that way and to have people not suffer. And you can think of yourself as drawing all of the pain of exactly the people who are in exactly the kind of pain that you're having right now, whether it's struggle or, you know, whipping yourself or calling yourself a failure or whatever kind of thing you're doing.

[54:07]

And just bring all of that pain, you know, kind of suck it into you and then breathe out on an out-breath, whatever antidote for that. you can imagine might be like coolness or calm or joy or whatever it is just try to exchange that with all these other people and sometimes that's helpful sometimes it works and another one that you can do is the meticide in a very very simple kind of way I just wrote a few down just for myself You can always say, may I be free of suffering in the root of suffering, always, just as a mantra in your meditation over and over again. You can say, may I develop loving kindness for myself and others. May I accept all situations and emotions without reservation. Just trying to relax and open to whatever is happening.

[55:08]

May I rest in the bodily experience I am having now. It's a good one. May my suffering help and heal people in pain. And may my suffering soften me. May I be softened by my suffering. The studying of this text is only to help us wake up and release ourselves from the bondage of thinking of self and other in that kind of suffering so that we can be available to other people in exactly this way. I really truly believe that this underneath it all is exactly what we want to do. So the words and the ideas of the text and so on, although fun to study and talk about, they're really pointing us to a kind of a meditation, to a way of being with ourselves in the present moment that is a release from bondage to the idea of self and other, release from grasping all the time to our...

[56:39]

tiring burden of carrying a self with us in all of our life situations. If we can just put it down, just set it down, it's so exhausting, it's so tiring. And if we can't put it down, then we might as well enjoy it. Because you're stuck with it then. I was talking to somebody this morning, and I think it was this morning. I was talking to them. I had this vicious headache this morning. I get these sinus headaches that are just very intense. And...

[57:40]

One of my eyes was closing like that, and it was hard to talk actually with another person. But I was explaining to them this thing that I was telling you the other day about demons and how big they can be, your particular demon. And slowly, if we let ourselves, if we open to the demon, whatever that is for you, if we open to them, and... I was reminded actually of the movie. Did you see the movie The Beautiful Mind? Beautiful Mind? It's a very Buddhist movie. Where the story is, is this guy is basically schizophrenic and he has demons. He sees demons and the start of the movie, he has a roommate and he's having this relationship with this roommate and the roommate throws the desk out the window and so on and so forth and they have an argument and blah, blah, blah. And you're totally bought in. That's the story. You're watching the movie. It's happening. It looks real to you. just as real as it looks to him, the guy. Turns out later you learn that his roommate was just a psychological delusion, that he didn't have a roommate at all.

[58:52]

He was living by himself in the room. And the story continues and so on, and you begin to realize that he's seeing his demons just like they're just real, just like my demon was, huge demons, huge. But then... when he begins to want to be free, when he's beginning to understand that they are not really real, the first thing he does with them in the movie is he tries to get them out of there. And so what you see him doing next is, and now you know they're demons also, or delusions, whatever, he starts yelling at them. Whenever the guy comes toward him, he's a teacher in school, so whenever there's his demon person... comes toward him, he turns around and he starts yelling at him, get out of here, I don't want to see you again, go away, I know you're fake, get out of here. And the guy just, you know, loves it. He argues back, you know, don't tell me that, I'm going to, whatever it is. They get strong, they get really strong.

[59:54]

So it's the same exact with us. If we buy into it, then, you know, he throws the desk out the window and you're completely involved in the story, the relationship of you and whatever your particular demon is half in the story. And if we push away what we think of our demons, if we push them away, we give them energy. Same thing, they get just as strong. And later on in the movie, this great thing happens. He decides, well, what he's going to do is completely just ignore them. They don't go away. But what happens is, the next scene that you see is he's walking down the path in his school, and the demons are there, and they're not paying any attention to him. And at first, they go... What's the matter with you? You know, you can't just ignore me. Pay attention to me. It's going to be really a problem because, you know, you really are a spy and we're going to whatever the story was. And one of the demons was a little girl and she's sitting on the curb and he walks by and notes her and walks by.

[60:55]

And then he keeps ignoring them. And then the next thing that happens is he's walking down the same road and his demon is walking with him, but he's not saying anything. And the next thing that happens is he's walking down the road, and the little girl is sitting there on the curb, and she's not saying anything, and she just looks really lonely. She's just sitting there. And he tells her, I miss you too. It's okay. And he keeps walking. And this is really exactly what happens, that if we just ignore these thoughts and emotions, that slowly they wither. If we don't give them energy, they just wither. So we don't have to beat them up and get rid of them and feel really bad about it. We just have to be friends with them and ignore them. Like Suzuki Rishi said, just don't invite them to tea. Yeah?

[62:02]

Mm-hmm. Well, that's a good point. I think one way to tell is that when we're really caught, we don't have a sense of awareness there. Basically, what your mind is, is doing the stories over and over. There's not the awareness watching the suffering. We're just... There's no awareness there. There's just, and I don't mean just suffering in the way I was talking with you, being one with it. Being one with it, you're still, there's awareness is completely there. You're just feeling it. I think, see if, check that out and see if that's not the case. You're really just believing the whole thing. Okay? Okay?

[63:07]

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