This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good evening. We're coming to the end of this wonderful time called the work period at Tassajara. it always is so uplifting to feel the support that comes from so many people who come to Tassajara to help us prepare for the guest season and just to help us take care of Tassajara. And both the workers who come, some who come again and again and again and also the students who come.

[01:03]

The end of this period gets a little nerve-wracking because it's ending and sometimes we're not quite ready for it to end, for instance, in terms of projects and things that somehow didn't quite get it into their head that the end was coming and they should be bringing themselves to a close. But nonetheless, it will end. And some of the projects will go on in spite of the end of the work period, because they'll have to. But the guest season will start on this Friday. And one of the things that that means is that, in fact, the students who are staying here for the summer are going into a more defined training time. really more defined than the work period. And we'll talk more about that on Thursday night. We'll have a meeting. But I wanted to mention it a little bit tonight that really it's kind of what it becomes clearer.

[02:13]

Sometimes it takes a while for each of us, but it becomes clearer what the training at Tassajara is, what the specifics of it are. So there's more silence, for instance. At meals, at breakfast and at lunch, we have a silent period. And the baths are silent during student bath time. And at night, it's supposed to be silent now, but we will try even harder to be silent for the great silence from the beginning of zazen till after... I think it's through Soji and through the breakfast silence the next morning. And there's just a kind of a more feeling of the form of the practice container. At least I experience it that way, and I hope that you experience it that way, those of you who are staying.

[03:15]

So during this training time or this study time at Tassajara, this practice time at Tassajara, I wanted to say just a little bit more about what that what I think that is and I after my last talk I was I left here I don't know if some of you were here and I left that night after the talk it was very strange I gave the talk and then I got in the car and drove away and I didn't come back for several days so I had a fair amount of time to obsessed and I could see that's what I was doing about how did that go really it seems kind of strange to me and there were none of you to give me feedback about it I just had all those people who hadn't heard me talk so I was telling one of my friends who's living at Green Gulch Farm that I'd given this talk and I wasn't really sure how it went and she said she's she also gives talks and she had heard from somebody that you should pick three things that you want to say

[04:23]

and say them pretty clearly, and then maybe say them over in a couple of different ways and stop. She has more of a problem going on and on than I do. My talks are usually pretty short. So as I was preparing for this talk, I was thinking, okay, what are the three things that I want to say about this training at Tassajara, which, by the way, is going on now. When I say it's going to become... there's going to be more form to it once we move into the the summer practice period that doesn't mean it isn't happening during work period it very much is happening during work period so the three things or at least two of them and maybe I'll be able to say the third one the three things are the study of the Buddha way is the study of the self so we are going to be studying the Buddha way We're going to be studying it because we can't help but study it this way, and it's the only worthwhile way to study it.

[05:29]

We're going to be studying it, each of us, through the self, this particular unique karmic mind and body that appears. That's the way we study the Buddha way. Number two, study is not necessarily what we think of as study. So when I say study or when we say study, we might think, well, I need to get this. I need to understand it. I need to figure out the self or figure out Buddhism. So study is not quite like that. And let me try to say the third thing before I go into that a little more. As we study the self in this different way, it leads back to more study of the self.

[06:34]

It leads back to more, well, one way of saying, we're training in how to express reality. This is a new phrasing that I just picked up from Shōwaku Okamura in his new book about the Genjo Koan. where he says that we are practicing to express reality, or we're training to express reality. So this study of the self in this way goes on to more expressing of reality by studying the self. So this kind of study someone described it as it's kind of like a baby bird learning to fly. So the baby bird does not sit down and read a book about how to fly, and it doesn't think out how to fly.

[07:38]

How many times should I flap my wings per breath? At least as far as we know, a baby bird doesn't do that. If they do, it's not such a good example. But it is actually, it is okay to read a book about studying Buddhism and to read lots of books about selves. But the real study, the real understanding of how to play your part in expressing reality doesn't come from thinking about it, actually. It doesn't come from thinking about it. But we, because we're humans, we think. And because our thinking has a big impact on how we feel about things, how we act in things, our thinking needs to be a part of it. But that's not the core part. That's just a part that needs to be brought along. The core part, I believe, is something... Well, so there's this baby bird learning to fly...

[08:41]

So I would say the core part is more like just jumping off the ledge. But jumping off the ledge with an open heart. Is that what baby birds do? Maybe. It looks like it, you know. So it's something more organic. It's something more like being close to yourself while the ideas of self dissolve. Yeah. And that's part of what this training container is about. It's making a place that is safe enough where our ideas of self can dissolve, but also that trigger those ideas of self to come up and then dissolve. So a lot of this, as we're going through it, doesn't really make sense and sometimes doesn't feel so good. Sometimes it feels all right.

[09:45]

Sometimes it doesn't feel so good. So something like service. I think to a lot of us, morning service where we chant and bow, to a lot of us, service doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It may feel good or it may feel bad. And if it is making sense, it's probably a problem. It's probably, it's like, we're supposed to be chanting with a lot of energy and with, you know... I don't know what. So it sounds good or something and then you get disappointed pretty quickly. But to actually do service and just do it and just do it and just do it has actually, I think, a big impact on the dissolving of some of our ideas of self. How that happens exactly, I don't know. But that's my feeling about it is that we... We come here and we do... So this is some logic that I'm putting to it.

[10:48]

I don't know if it's true. But we come here and we bow and we chant with each other, not necessarily at the pace or the pitch that we would prefer. So we're allowing ourselves to be rearranged in some way. by the group doing this together, which is kind of what we're doing at Tassajara all the time. It's kind of what we're doing everywhere all the time with more or less resistance, right? Everywhere, whether you're at Tassajara or you're somewhere else, things are happening and we are being rearranged by them. And sometimes we resist it and sometimes we're happy about it, but it always happens, actually. So that's this study of the self. And the way Dogen described it was to study the Buddha way is to study the self. And then he said to study the self is to forget the self. But it's not like we try to forget the self.

[11:50]

It's more like in the next sentence he says to forget the self is to be actualized by myriad things. So it's not like we try to forget the self. It's more that as we are... studying the self, trying to be open to what's actually happening with ourselves, we notice sometimes, but even if we don't notice, what's happening is that we are being remade always by what's happening. We're always being remade by that, and again, with more or less resistance to it, partly depending on our idea of who we should be. So if we have an idea that I should be calm, and then at, let's say, service, somebody chants in a way that I think is not the right way, and suddenly we feel not calm, we feel upset or angry or impatient, then we might think,

[13:00]

the wrong thing happened the wrong me is being called forth we might not think this so clearly but we might have this feeling like this this is not the way it should be because that's not who I am I'm not an impatient person naturally it's just because this is happening in the wrong way but if we're willing to be remade as an impatient person something's happening we're getting impatient fine really fine if in terms of studying the self in this organic way basically I was I don't know how often we actually have the time to to think this through and do it but I'll say it as if we could so something happens we maybe don't like it so much if you have the time to think about it I would suggest Trying to not be distracted by the thing that's happening that you don't like so much and try to bring your attention back to what's being created over here and make some space around it.

[14:10]

Be patient with it. Be open to it. Don't make excuses for it. Don't think it should be this way or it shouldn't be this way. Just let it be there. Just familiarize yourself with that feeling and be willing to let it go. Be willing for it to be there as long as it's there. Be willing for it to go away when it goes away. And as I said, I don't know. Often there's not time to do that. Maybe in service there's more time than in a lot of situations where someone is, you know, requesting your response immediately and But I think that is one way of describing or partially describing what happens naturally in Zazen and in this setting, like the setting of Tassajara, where somehow, basically, we become more self-reflective.

[15:14]

We start to notice our part in things, and we make some space, or there is more space around it. that might be pretty painful for us because we might see a lot of old habits. And I've been talking to a number of people, and I know that for a lot of people, things are coming up, things, feelings, fears are arising for people at Tassar. This is normal. This is what happens when you knowingly or unknowingly take this vow to study the self, to be honest. It's really we're saying, I will be open to the self that is actualized or that is created by all things. When we say that, either in those words or just by saying something like, well, I'm going to sit zazen. Little did we know when we said, I'm going to sit zazen, we're really saying, I'm going to be open to the self that is created by all things.

[16:20]

And when we say that, our self takes us up on it. It says, okay, you want to be open? Try this. Are you open to this? Oh, not so open yet. Okay. Well, then we'll wait a few minutes. Back off a little ways and then, okay, ready yet? And then if we're ready for that, well, what about ready for this? And as we are ready for it, and again, we might not always feel ready, but it's happening, right? The self is manifesting itself, as it always is, but with more support at a place like Tassajara, perhaps we don't have to be quite as afraid of it coming out. And also, we don't have quite as many tools for keeping it from coming out. We don't have television. We don't have movies. So there it is, just coming out and also sitting a lot of zazen.

[17:23]

we soften. It's like we soften and it comes out more. It hears us saying, I want to be open to you. I don't know if this is true. This is just one way of expressing it. It's something like our karmic self hears our intention to be open and it appears. And part of its appearing is its disappearing. Part of its appearing is its dissolving, is its arising and falling away. So these selves come up and they fall away. Or as Dogen says, when we're actualized by myriad things, the body and mind of ourselves and others drop away. That doesn't mean that we walk around without a body and mind. It means bodies and minds come and go. And they come and go... They're always coming and going, but we get to appreciate that more.

[18:28]

We get to see that that's happening. And the self drops away in different ways. Sometimes a self that we have thought of as myself for a long time just goes away. It doesn't have any ground to stand on anymore. Sometimes it goes away kicking and screaming. It says it needs to go through a little fit first, you know, before it goes away. And often it doesn't go away completely. But we can feel it or see it. It comes up, it constellates itself, you know, some habit, way of being. And sort of almost as we watch, it sort of just comes apart. And we see, oh, this doesn't have as much substance as I used to think it did. I don't have to feel that way. Or I really don't feel that way.

[19:31]

Sometimes that takes a long time. Sometimes the very ones that we wish would do that, they have to keep coming back and they come back and they come back. Nonetheless, our vow in this kind of training is I will be open to this karmic self. I will study this self. I will try to learn to fly with this self. And again in Shoako Komura's translation of the Genjo Koan, he goes on to say, well, let me remind you of the more familiar one to those of us who've been here for a while. The translation is, I will cheat and read it. So, when actualized by all things, your body and mind, as well as the bodies and minds of others, will drop away.

[20:39]

And then one way of translating it is, no trace of realization remains, and this no trace continues endlessly. But the way that Shoaka Okamura translates it is, there is a trace of realization that can't be grasped. We endlessly express this ungraspable trace of realization. So he's saying there's a trace of realization, and this is somewhat what I've been trying to express. We get a sense that there's some freedom here, and yet it's only a trace and it can't be grasped. There still is our karmic body and mind, which for most of us has a fair amount of pain and hope and fear. bound up with it and and so we get this we see this trace of freedom and yet we can't get a hold of it we're not really in charge of how quickly do these karmic bodies and minds drop away we might you know deeply wish that particular ones of them will go away and never appear again but that might not be what happens

[22:00]

It may keep coming back and keep coming back, needing to be met again, needing to be seen more deeply. What is the dependent core arising of this state? What is it? Again, not getting too distracted by the thinking it out, but really trying to be open to the feeling of it, to the constellation of it. So there is a trace of realization that's ungraspable, that we don't really know how to make it happen. We don't know how to keep it. And yet we sense there's movement here. There's dissolving of grasping. There's dissolving of tightness. And yet it's not on call. It's here. So we...

[23:01]

we endlessly try to express this trace of realization, and the way to do that is this training to express reality, and the reality that we're expressing is ourself. That's this coming right back around to we have to keep practicing openness to this karmic body and mind. And if we get too lost in weight, I want that trace of realization. I want that freedom from this self. We won't be able to allow it to dissolve. We'll have our idea of who we should be. We'll get in the way of our actually being open to, being familiar with, studying. the real self that's still here, the one that keeps, it's not like a self, but the selves that keep being created by all things. So those are the three things that I wanted to express to you tonight, that this study that those of us who are staying here are embarking on, but anybody can embark upon it.

[24:15]

Wherever they are, there are certain supports to it here, certain, you know, kind of unexplainable supports like service and silence. Sometimes when we don't want silence, but that silence that allows us to be open to ourselves, including open to the part of us that doesn't want to be in silence. You know, what's happening there? I'd rather talk to somebody than go home and be lonely by myself. still, with that support of this is the silent time, just take some time to be with lonely you. Scared you, nervous you, frustrated, anxious, impatient, happy, joyous, whatever you is appearing, take some silent time to be with them. Take the support of having other people around who are also trying to do that and often failing, often getting caught up in how they want things to be and forgetting this openness to how things are.

[25:21]

And let me say right there that how we want things to be is part of what can be expressed too. It's not like that's part of expressing reality. Training in expressing reality is how we want things to be, but to do it in the way that realizes that's not the only reality that's going on. There's a lot of other things going on. Sometimes we can do that, sometimes we can't. So whether you're staying here, whether you're going elsewhere, that training can be embarked upon. There's just this extra support here. So to study this, the way to study it is studying the self that appears right here in this karmic body and mind. I've often said... As I understand it, the practice of Soto Zen is a body practice. It really is about living in this body and living in this body with this mind.

[26:28]

And then this practice, as we practice it at Tassajara, gives us all these particular things to do with our bodies. Some of them are quite mundane, like wash the dishes or make the beds. But still, it's do it. Do it in this way. Do it as being in your body as much as you can, being with your mind as much as you can. Do it along with zazen, very physical practice, along with service, another very physical practice, and let those unfold. So study the self. Study it in this open-hearted, physical way. be physically open-hearted to yourself. And if we do that, it leads to this trace, this ungraspable trace of dissolving of ideas of self, which leads to more study of the self, more open-hearted study of the self.

[27:36]

So I want to stop there and see if you have any questions thoughts or questions so you can help me clarify what I was saying. Yes. Did somebody over there have their hand up? No. Does anyone have anything? David. A little bit. You seem to be referencing what are you looking at, like a playful little shallow self that you had these little narratives with. about what that self might be. Like, you're beside yourself, so to speak. Is that what it's actually like for you? When you see yourself shift around, is it your internal self, or your self is just a view of itself that I heard you describe in a manner of being your faithful, shadow of self that you just address and work with?

[28:39]

Fence, please. No, that's not how it is for me. I think if I understand what you're saying, or whether I do or not, this is what I'll say back. I feel like over the years that from the time that I first started sitting Zazen, and also from talking with other people, that there's more perspective on myself. Like I could... I started noticing more my part in things. Like if there was an interaction where I think in the past I would have just thought, that person did that. I started noticing, oh, but I did this. So I think that happened, which was a little... I think like what you were saying, some stepping aside and having more of a view of how I was functioning.

[29:45]

And then over the years, it's felt more to me like I got more absorbed back into myself. These are such tricky words. But so that it feels now, it feels more like Not that I might still notice, oh, I was really upset. Or I am really upset. I'm saying this, and they may not know it, but I can see there's a lot of upset going on here. Or maybe they do know it, and I can see it, and they may not recognize it, but I can feel it in the energy that's coming back at me. So there still is that experience, but it feels more not so separate. It feels more like it's... like happening. Yeah, feels more like absorption, actually.

[30:49]

Yes. What happens in between wanting to fly and jumping off the ledge? Well, it depends on which ledge you decide to jump off of. And, of course, I don't know what happens because that's totally dependent on what the situation is. But in terms of effort, that's one of the great things about Tassajara, but it's also about life, really. If you just do what's in front of you. What I really believe is... I once heard Kategori Roshi say, don't put your effort in anything except Zazen. And what I took that to mean was, first of all, I wasn't sure I heard it. So I asked him and he said, yes, don't put your effort in anything except Zazen.

[31:53]

And so I take that to mean, if Zazen is one of your practices or your practice, basically to sit Zazen and live your life. What zazen does to us, whatever that is, will permeate our life. So of course we make effort all the time. I mean, that's part of being alive, really. It's part of having life energy, is that our effort, our intention, is going somewhere. So if we put our intention into whatever we're doing, as much as we can consciously see that, and... One of the things we're doing is zazen. Then zazen kind of permeates our life, and that is like stepping off, jumping off a ledge, because basically it means we are willing to admit how little control we have. That becomes more, that's one of the things that becomes more apparent, as we said zazen, and then we live our life, and we see our life with this little bit of perspective, and we see, oh, I actually can't make that happen.

[33:06]

I want that to happen, I can't make it happen. Or we see, anyway, we see various things that essentially are, I'm not in control here, and yet I am having a big part in creating what's happening, which is stepping off the ledge. It's very scary. Yeah. Yeah, and that reality, that reality of how out of control things are, It's pretty hard to be open to. So rather than start there, which is pretty scary, I would say start here. Start, which is the same thing, really, but basically we can be open to these thoughts, these feelings, this pain, this happiness, without trying to grasp it, but just there it is. Yes?

[34:18]

I'm wondering if you can follow one of your points. You said that sometimes many aspects of the self are not being seen. You said you keep seeing what's creating them. Well, I think as we look at ourself or parts of ourself, whatever, we naturally see the dependent co-horizon of it. We naturally see more about what it is and when it's there and when it isn't there. So we see, you know, what the myriad things are that are... We don't see all of them.

[35:29]

There's no way we could see all of it. But we get some feeling for its... the way it comes... when it comes up, what's happening when it comes up. You know, especially the really... Most of the hard things for us about ourselves are really what's called a complex, which means there are a lot of things mixed together, and there are usually a lot of young things mixed together, different kinds of fears and pains and habits and things. So as we are open enough to, instead of just saying no, no, no, no, this should not be happening, can't have this and then we respond in our normal way of either getting angry or running away or you know whatever has whatever habit we've developed if we can stop doing that and actually be there with it open to it we start to see these the parts of it we might or might not see all of it we it doesn't really we don't know what but is that

[36:40]

My experience is it's like a knot and it starts to disentangle. And to what extent it disentangles, who knows when that happens or why that happens. But I think being open to it helps that to happen. Yes? Dealing with all the various aspects of our common self, the Razu's, all the different selves. Engaging with that can sometimes feel very cumbersome, distracting. I'm wondering if there's some practice that we could do to just drop a little of that. And instead of having to engage all the time with our common self, So when you say to engage with your karmic self feels distracting, that's what you said, could you give just a little bit more?

[37:52]

Sometimes when things arise, like in Zaza, for instance, feelings or thoughts or thought patterns start arising, I feel like we can often make a self out of that and then engage with that and have some sort of conversation. Yes, yeah. As opposed to just letting... Yeah. Yeah. So in some ways, I think what you're talking about was what I was talking about. That's not the kind of study, you know, to engage with it. Like a lot of the time we're engaging with it to we think we're trying to understand it. Whereas I think a lot of it really we're trying to get away from the feeling of it and kind of raise it to the level of something we can think about. and maybe get to understand and therefore control and make go away. Or understand what other people are doing to create this and make them go away. Somehow, get away from it.

[38:53]

And we often turn it over and over and over and sometimes even increase the feeling by our trying to get rid of it, but still we're keeping ourselves at a distracted level from it. So I think in zazen or in life, the rest of life, one thing I'm suggesting, not that we shouldn't ever think about these things, but that's what I mean by more like an open-hearted, like allow these feelings to be there, but allow them to travel at their own pace. Like we don't have to tie them down and say, okay, I'm going to now feel this feeling to the bottom. but it's a kind of softer, in some ways, a kind of softer stability. You know, like while things are coming, going, rolling around, there's more stability just for being there with them.

[39:55]

And when we get thrown off of that, one of the things that often happens is we start thinking, wait a minute, what should I do about this? This doesn't feel good. What should I be doing at this? And I would say, when we ask in that way, what should I do? The answer is nothing. You know, the kind of nothing that we do in Zazen. Basically, like, try to come back to where am I and just notice what's happening here as whatever of it we notice. You know, like, I'm breathing. My feet are here. There's a lot of upset going on in my stomach, and okay, fine. As one way of saying, as Suzuki Roshi said, give your cow a wide pasture. So take your little cow that's throwing a little fit, and just give it a little pasture there. But try to be stable, actually physically stable when we're doing it.

[41:01]

It's one way that some of the training that happens here is... that's one way it functions, is we do these simple menial jobs, really. I mean, most of the jobs at Tassajar are very straightforward, you know, wash the dishes, sift the incense, make the beds, chop the carrots, you know, do, just do a simple, stable kind of work that actually helps us be there for these things. It feels, it can feel like We have sort of two worlds going on at once. You know, like I have to take care of making the bed right and letting this world in here happen, the internal world happen. But there's a way that it actually helps. There's a flow, there's a stability to it that lets our internal world kind of ebb and flow at its own pace without our messing with it quite so much. then if once we can do that, or sometimes before we can do that, we're asked to do something that takes a little more thought.

[42:10]

We'll get to that later. Anything else? Yes? How do you combine the do-nothing and the openness with still a desire for intention? intention for compassion or joy, and intention for bettering myself to be a student, to do better. How do I balance? Well, I think that that intention to help, to not cause pain, but to be a beneficial part of... society of the world it's actually organic I think we actually want to do that I think everyone wants to do that and what keeps us from that is fear basically fear that that's not who I am and I have to do something different or I have to make things different or I have to control things so the doing the not doing the being stable it's not a passiveness I think

[43:29]

Passivity is not an option. We have energy. We're always doing things. Even not doing is doing something. But to be as stable as we can and as open as we can to what's happening around us allows us to play our part more fully. And to see what's compassionate about that. Are there still remnants of hurting, of harming that are going on? And then what do we do with that? Are there still remnants of fear, essentially? So I think they aren't really at odds with each other at all. Anything else? Yes, we should stop. I think.

[44:31]

Let's see. Is it short? Okay. Well, it might look like almost anything. You know, it depends on the situation. Because it means readiness. You know, it means being made by So depending on circumstances, it can look just about any way. Okay. We'll explore that further. Yeah, right. Good. Thank you. Thank you all very much. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered free of charge. and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma.

[45:31]

For more information, visit sfcc.org and click Giving.

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