I vow to face the truth of the Tathāgata's words. Good evening, everyone. We have this attendance sheet to check, sign and check off, and I know a number of people weren't here last week because of Sagaki and other things, so if you could add your name and, I guess, check the dates that you've been here. And there's also copies of the Tenzo Kyopun that we're using, if anyone needs one. We've got a couple here. Anybody else? Okay. Let's say our names, please.

[01:04]

How about we start this way? A. Robin. Barbara. Carol. Carol. Petra. Michael. Siobhan. David. Jack. Courtney. Catherine. Denny. Geraldine. Michael. Mary. Anita. Judith. Jim. Susan. Gwen. Matthew. Linda. Greg. John. Catherine. Anna. Well, welcome. Now, there may be something else on our minds tonight, I'm not sure. So I thought if there's some report that someone would like to make, about the election, we could just have that out, and then we'll see what happens. Would someone like to? Michael? Denny and I were checking, actually, and it looks as if, unbelievably,

[02:08]

that Gore took Michigan as well, so the swing states of Michigan, Florida. Illinois. Illinois. Pennsylvania. It's not in yet, though. Pennsylvania. All of those have gone towards Al Gore. So it's very interesting. It looks like it, I mean, I wouldn't wager still, because there's still a very small percentage of precincts have reported, but it looks like it's actually positive for Gore. And Hillary Clinton. One thing about Florida that I just heard is that the Bush campaign is protesting that it's to Gore, and so it's off. They took it off, so he doesn't have Florida right now, because of the huge amount of absentee ballots that haven't been counted. Oh, wow. It's so close. It's so close. So that's still, that's back. Okay, can we just let it go, do you think? So we're studying the Tenzo Kyoku,

[03:10]

and we left off last week in a very, very interesting part. Can you give a quick little... What we talked about last week? Please. Yeah. Let's see. We got into a discussion of practice realization, practice and realization being not separable in Buddhist practice, which is the doctrinal underpinnings of everyday mind is the way, do things with full exertion and wholehearted sincerity. That in itself is expressing the way how any work that you do, if you're fully engaged in it, is not different from realization. We talked about that. Well, what else did we talk about? Does anybody else remember? Yes? I remember you saying how to treat the food as if it were Buddha's eyes. That's right. And how did we talk about that, about it being our very own eyes?

[04:15]

And then I had a problem with that in the kitchen when I was having to smush onions, and then they'd be fast, they'd get all muddy. Yes. And I was like, this is not Buddha's eyes. Smushing onions. As you were crying. Sometimes it's really hard to keep that in mind. So we talked about mind and environment being the same or the emptiness of things. We talked about emptiness. So that was our little update from last week. Anything else that stuck in your mind from last week? Your stories. Stories? Yes, my stories about buying butter with my stag pen. So I have a couple of things that I wanted to mention, which is I had this kind of a flash of something that I'd like to do with the class, and I wanted to ask you how you would feel about it.

[05:16]

And it's partially because of being in the koan class a year or so ago where we took a particular koan, and we broke into groups, and then we dramatically acted it out. We kind of theatrically did it. It was the same koan, so everyone had the same, and the groups worked together, and they're pretty short, people had their lines, and then there were certain actions. That one was about a meal where the abbot heard the bell hadn't gone off yet, and he came with his bowl to the zendo, and the cook said, The bell hasn't gone off. What are you doing here, old man? Get back to your own room or something. Anyway, there was a number of what happened after that, and we acted it out dramatically. And I was picturing these stories, these tenzo stories, Dogen meeting the tenzos. For me, they're teaching stories. They come up for me. The lines from the stories come up as teaching stories or as koans,

[06:22]

and I thought if we saw them, that might be some way of embodying them. Would you like to do that? Would that be something fun to do? Is there anyone, maybe I heard all those who are in favor, is there anybody who, how about this, if you really feel like you don't want to do it or be involved in it, maybe you can let me know. But at this point, is there some kind of general yeah, let's try it kind of feeling? Yes? Yes. Okay. I looked at the 3 or 4 tenzo stories that are in the text, and it looks like there's, where is it? I have the parts down, what they might be. So the first one is Xue Feng and Dogen, and that's the one where he overturns the rice bucket,

[07:23]

and it's just, it could be two people, Dogen, not Dogen, Deng Shan, Xue Feng, and a narrator. So maybe I should have a little sign-up sheet where you sign up. The next one is the tenzo that he met, well, this is chronologically in the Tenzo Kyokun, how they come. The next one is the cook at Tien Tong Temple, then there's the one he met on the ship, and then that one who comes back and comes to visit him at Tien Tong. So there's those 4 stories. The one on the ship could include the captain of the ship, a crew member, because Dogen was just chatting with the captain when this tenzo showed up, and the tenzo asked the crew member to buy mushrooms. So it could be a crew member. You could have that little negotiation, too, if you wanted to. Then Dogen, the tenzo, and a narrator, and then the last one is just Dogen and the tenzo, and it could be a narrator. So it looks like there's a lot of parts for people to do that.

[08:26]

Do you think it would be possible to, let's see, for those of you who live here, you could prepare for next week. For those of you who don't live here, let's see. You could maybe be a narrator at one and just read the in-between lines, but it would be fun to practice. Jim and I could do one. Jim and Judith could do one. We could also take a little time here to break into the groups and just decide who's going to do what, maybe at the end, maybe 15 minutes, to create their little casts. Should we try that? Okay, I'll try and let's stop at quarter to nine and quickly break into groups and just see if you can assign parts. And for those of you who are here, you could actually get together and rehearse once or so, and those of you who don't live here can maybe be narrator and practice. Okay. We can have multiple versions of some of them. Well, we'll see. Let's see. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14.

[09:35]

It looks like it takes 14 people for the cast members. How many are we? So we could have double. I think it's okay to have different casts do the same story. 27, 28. I think I won't be in one. So 27, at least tonight. Does everybody want to do them? Is there anybody? Does anyone not want to do them? I'm just not saying so because. Okay, one doesn't. Like me, sort of, but I think I'll be doing it. Okay, let's do this at the end. We'll break into groups and see. How many of us don't live here? How many of you don't? Raise your hands who don't live here right now full time. 1, 2, 3, 4. Four? Yeah. So let's try to work it all out at quarter to nine, okay? So if we were on page 34, 35, so why don't we turn to that.

[10:42]

And I think we're at the bottom of 34 about getting ready for the next morning's breakfast. There's certain things that jump out for me. For example, prepare the vegetable by yourself with your own hands, watching closely with sincere diligence. You should not attend to some things and neglect or be slack with others for even one moment. We talked about that, I think, this even-minded not picking or choosing what's... I like this job a lot and I don't like this one so much that somebody else can do it or I don't do it at all. Yeah. And this... Does anybody have anything... I feel like I've been talking a lot in the class and I wanted to bring you all out more if I could. Or please feel free to jump in with your own relationship, really, to these words. Maybe I'll just ask this.

[11:49]

Attending... You should not attend to some things and neglect or be slack with others for even one moment. Yes. Well, the first thing that comes to my mind is that sounds great if you can do it, but if you're so busy because of, say, lack of staffing, and there's some things you have to leave slack with, then what happens? I mean, it's no big deal, but... Yeah. Then I guess I think, well, as long as you're aware of it, maybe come back to it. You know, it's just an ideal... So does everybody get the feeling of what Matt's saying, that there are situations where you can't attend to everything with equal amount of time, right? But what you said at the end to me is like the key, which is attending to everything and not be slacking is I'm not able to attend to this right now, although I care about it. I will get back to it, or I will ask someone else to do it,

[12:52]

or that is the attending to it, the bearing it in mind. So I think you answered your... you went full circle there. I feel we had a similar discussion this summer in the forum. It's very much about mindfulness. We talked about how it was often really stressful, you know, and how can you do something really, really fast and still be mindful doing it, you know. And I think it's a little bit the same thing. I think our conclusion was that just because you're mindful doesn't mean that you're, you know, that you're really slow, you know. Sometimes it might be easier to work really fast. It helps to be mindful because like all distractions sort of disappear and you sort of really have to be like, you know, just picking a chart, not thinking about like how nice the box and the charts are and so on.

[13:53]

I think. Yes, I have a great Tenzo story about that very thing, which I'll tell, or maybe Judith is going to tell a story too. Not a story, but my hit on it is more, oh, I don't want to do that part, you know, and being a Tenzo, I might be able to pull that off, but I try and just jump in to whatever needs to be done. So the picking and choosing has to do, it's an attitude, not that you actually can do every single thing with the same amount of time, but how are you relating to this? Like I don't want to do that part. Right, and the thing you said about, and because I'm Tenzo, you know, it's my prerogative and so nobody's going to catch me up on it, right?

[14:54]

Because they figure, they trust me, I'm doing what, yeah, but you know, you're fooling yourself, you can't fool yourself. Was there another hand right here, Denny? Yeah. I would only echo what Judith has said now. You know, I just came from this meeting at Tassajar where we talked about, we had a workshop called Beyond Consensus, and it was run, we had two Quakers, people come and talk with us about Quaker meetings and how they run their business meetings, and one of the things that they have as a form, some of you may know maybe Quakers, is if someone speaks and really that's what you would have said if it had been your turn to speak, rather than repeating it all so that yours can be heard, from kind of an ego point of view, you say, that friend speaks my mind. And we began using that in our business meeting that we had, the board, we said that sister, that brother speaks my mind, and it was, anyway, it was a very good feeling. You didn't have to have, so I appreciate that, that friend speaks my mind,

[15:59]

that, yeah, that sister, that brother speaks my mind. We can adopt that if we want to. We used to go like this in Santa Cruz. That means the same thing? Yeah, that's the same thing. The story I was going to tell, well, there's two stories I wanted to tell that occurred to me about what Yuan said about mindfulness. Mindfulness isn't necessarily saying to yourself, oh, this box of chard is so gorgeous, look at those colors, the sun is glinting off it, this is really, I am so lucky, da-da-da-da-da. It's cutting chard, putting in the boxes, just cutting chard. And did I tell this story about the apples here? When I was Tenzo at Tussar in the summer, we were trying to make applesauce for about 150 people, I think, and I said to one of the students, I think they were a new summer student,

[17:01]

get a box of apples or two boxes of apples, wash them, get them in a pot, let's get them on, you know, and then I was doing other things, and I looked around and about half an hour, where are those apples? They're not up, they're not on the stove yet. And I looked over and this person was over at the spritzer sink and doing this. Spritz, spritz, spritz, spritz. And really enjoying the colors and each beautiful apple. And I went over to him and I said, what did I say? I said something. I think I took the spritzer actually and said, could you just get these apples? But I realized this person had conflated, I guess you could say,

[18:02]

mindfulness and this kind of getting lost in the beauty and slowness. Mindfulness, slowness, appreciating the beauty. And they had forgotten about, you know, which is, it's like blinders. They had forgotten about lunch, deadlines, the time, other people, another job on the cutting sheet that was ready to go. It was just oblivious to that and completely zeroing in on their, this lovely work and isn't this great to be in the mountains kind of, you know. So I think this can happen. So you should not attend to some things and neglect or be slack with others, meaning what is the whole, what is this wide vision, what's going on in the kitchen, and the relationship. And I think Buddhism is so much about relationship in all different ways, relationship to the food, the time, your friends, the, you know, the cleanliness, your body, its relationship. So I think when we, and the other one I was going to tell about

[19:04]

was cleaning the grease trap at Tassajara. The grease trap, there was this, I don't think we have a grease trap here, do we? We don't have one down there anymore either. Oh really, it's gone. There was a hole in the floor with a big, like a drain with holes in it, like a long cylinder with holes in it that went down into, I don't even know where that went, some kind of a sump. We had it back up last fall. It's there, the one in the floor. It backed up? When the septic system started to... It backed up into the kitchen. So it must have gone into the septic system, and we had to clean it periodically. Well, this was one of those jobs that, you know, it'd been several weeks, right, and you'd pull it up out of the ground, and it would come up just like... And it was like, for me, that was the job I least liked to do. But it had to be done or it would just be a mess, you know. And I remember Lou Hartman, Blanche's husband, do some of you know Lou?

[20:07]

I remember we pulled it up, and I don't know what face I was making at the time. I don't think I was tense. I was on the crew. It was my job. And it was like this, you know, like that, the smell and everything. And he said, that's nothing. I worked in restaurants all my life where they cooked meat, and you'd pull those things up, and there was decomposing pork and grease, and this is nothing, you know. And I remember thinking, yeah, this is just some vegetables and rice and a few, you know, what is this? And what is my distaste? You know, this kind of picking and choosing and, you know, attending to some things and neglecting or, you know, avoiding others and wanting others. This is just the world of suffering, basically. So what is, yes, strong smells, visuals, smellables, tastables, touchables, that are unpleasant sensation due to what?

[21:09]

Eye consciousness, nose consciousness, ear consciousness, and to just relate to it in that way with, this is finding your composure in whatever you do. Avoiding and picking and choosing is suffering. So Dogen, and in the kitchen, you know, there's this chance to work with that in a very intimately, very intimate way. Shall we move on from that point, which we could talk about forever? Yeah, every story of every picking and choosing of mine has just gone through my mind. You know, being on the work crew down at Casa Juana, not wanting to be plumbing. Right, right. I'm thinking, though, that there are situations where you have a group of people, and some people like to do one thing and the other people like to do the other. It seems like that's a wonderful way of attacking a task or a situation,

[22:14]

particularly if it's including talent and ability. I think it can be. Can you see anything in just what you said that may be not so beneficial in that thing that you just described of people who have a talent and for one thing or another being asked to do that? Can you see what the other side of that might be for those very same people, for example? Well, the flip side would be if someone didn't ever get an opportunity to do something different, that would be a drag. Because what happens to them then if they never get an opportunity? Then they don't know what other talents they would have. So they don't get to know themselves in this new and fresh situation and find out about what that might be, even though they don't think they're so good at it or they've been told they're not good at it or that person looks really good at it.

[23:15]

So that's one thing about these positions, the monastic positions, both these six temple officers. By the way, that question last week about the three officers collapsed into one, that was earlier than Dogen. I just wanted to clarify that that was the Chan-Wan Jingui, that earlier version of the Pure Rules written in 1103. They had fewer number of officers. And then in Dogen's time it was the six. I just wanted to mention that. So in all these practice positions, both those six officers and all the other different things, at Tushar in particular, Green Gulch a little less, and the city a little less, and Tushar in the summer less. But for a practice period atmosphere, people, let's say you know somebody's come down to Tushar and they've worked in an office, they're really good with clerical skills, computers, all that stuff, you may say,

[24:18]

Would you please be working the shop? Working the shop? I don't even know what a wrench is. And that is just, then there they are like a baby again, not knowing anything, not knowing. And this is very fresh, very difficult sometimes, and it helps you to be awake. Because if you put them in the office, they can do it with one hand tied behind their back. And those of you who have been in practice period and are doing things maybe you aren't that good at or haven't done before, there's something very fresh, even though it's difficult. And you meet yourself in a different way, and you develop your undeveloped side, and you come up against your likes and dislikes, and your ego stuff, and your investment in being really good at computers, and nobody's asking me to do what I know best. So all that comes up.

[25:20]

So there actually is a practice of not putting someone in their element. Except for plumbers. And plumbers, there was a series of plumbers who left Zen Center. Why? Because they weren't being given a beneficial practice situation. They were being played to their strengths. And so they weren't developing really. They were serving the community, but at their own expense almost. So they weren't really treated with a certain kind of respect. In the summer, when we had the Geshe Tassar, we asked people, where do you want to work? And it flips. People who are good in the office, we put them in the office because we have to really take care of them. We don't have a lot of room for mistakes and that kind of thing.

[26:24]

But during practice period, we put people, like I said, the tensos, when we looked at what the prerequisites are for the job and knowing how to cook is not one of the prerequisites, right? You put somebody in who's never been in the kitchen before as tensor. Why? Because they have a practice mind. And that's all. That's all. But in the summer, we have guest cooks who are good at cooking who can get those quiches out just with that crispy crust. We have to. So we do that almost, not apologetically, it's just that summer practice. But that isn't to say that we never have people doing what they love to do. I don't think we want to be caught in that formula either. But for the most part, for practice reasons, we shift it all around and kind of throw it all into a jumble

[27:28]

and put people in places they've never been before. Also, I think in that vein, I think like what I was saying in the beginning, that I might not want to do the grease trap and nobody wants to do the grease trap, but somebody has to do it. And I think in those cases, we try and have everybody do it rather than just one person who's really good at it. You're really good at that. You get to do that every time. Yeah. Yeah. Shall we move on a little bit? I actually... We should actually... Yes, the grease trap. I had jumped on something before, and Judith, I know, knows the infrastructure of Tazahara completely. The thing on the floor may not be a grease trap anymore. Maybe something else.

[28:28]

She says it's not a grease trap, but it's connected to a sewer system and it does get clogged. Cool. When everything crunches around. Okay. You know, I realize that if we go line by line, we will never get off this page. Because... So, how would you... Do you feel all right if we skip down a little bit? This next line is just... Well, I can't skip it. Do not give away a single drop from within the ocean of virtues. You must not fail to add a single speck on top of the mountain of good deeds. This is just... Don't... You might say, like this resting on your laurels. It's just, basically, don't rest on your laurels. Every single moment you have this opportunity to exert yourself to the fullest with not holding back anything. And even if it's, you know, it's like bringing your cup. This is what just occurred to me. Bringing your cup to the dishwasher, or you forgot it and left it up there.

[29:28]

Going back, getting the cup and bringing it, you know. Rather than, oh, somebody will pick it up. It's like you don't waste one speck for your... in this endeavor of practicing the way. And it has to do with not being slack. You know what I was saying? About not being slack in your practice. Buddha ancestors always caution you not to be slack in your practice. That's because practice and realization is one. So, don't waste any opportunity. This kind of thoroughness. So, that's pointing to that. Can I turn up the heat a little bit? Yeah, we should... I mean, no, no, no, I mean... Oh, turn up the heat? Figuratively. Yes, go ahead. I thought you were getting cold. Can I say, I just wish that this were really true? About the cups? About, like, everything that we do? I mean, because it's not really true. What is it? I see people leaving. I don't want to get into, like, the specifics,

[30:29]

because then I get into this judgmental mind. Yes. And, which I personally have to stay out of, because it's a deep source of unhappiness for me. And I try and focus on myself and what can I do. But clearly I look around and it's not everybody doing this practice. This is our suffering. This is the suffering of living in community. And basically, if you look out there at everybody, it is really, I mean, their practice is so bad. I mean, just look at them. Which is one of the reasons we have eyes cast down. The eyes cast down and we look to ourselves. We take care of our own practice. And Suzuki Roshi, there's this wonderful story of Ed Brown's, which I'm sure some of you have read. I think it might even be in the introduction to this book,

[31:30]

where he was tenzo at Tassahara, and he went to Suzuki Roshi and said, These people, they are not, they take too many bathroom breaks, they're not working, they're talking in the kitchen, they don't clean up after themselves, it is really bad. What am I going to do with them? And Suzuki Roshi said, You have to have a calm mind in order to see virtue. And he thought, He doesn't understand whatever I'm talking about. I want to know how to get these people to practice harder. But he didn't say anything right because of Suzuki Roshi. So he went away. With turning this about seeing virtue, needing a calm mind to see virtue. So anyway, I can't remember the end of the story. I think it's he actually practiced with that rather than looking out at how everybody was not doing their part

[32:31]

and ruining his practice and making his tenzoship so hard. So yes, I think this is very difficult. Really, this is the suffering of our community life. And we have various, what shall I say, people have different ways that they're practicing, different things they're practicing with, different commitment, different understanding. It's worlds. Each person is a world unto themselves. So then we get announcements that are even more irritating sometimes that are spoken with frustration and anger and yada yada. So how can we turn that whole thing around to each thing we encounter, each dirty cup left out on the smoking area place or whatever.

[33:36]

How do we see that? How does that inform us? How does that help our practice? How does that support us to practice harder rather than being discouraging? And that is really one of the most important things about monastic life and community life. And one of the hardest. So how? What? So how then? How do you turn it around and what happens then? Well, maybe some of you can say. Yes? Well, being in the kitchen is a very stressful place and also, you know, feeling that I'm such a good cook. That observation, you look around and you have to watch someone else making a dish that you've made superbly. And you see that they're not doing it right and you have to keep your mouth shut. And that's what I practice. I keep my mouth shut. And I say, mirror mind. You say what? I say, mirror mind. Mirror mind. See myself in whatever other things that I might struggle with.

[34:41]

Maybe I wouldn't struggle with that dish, but there might be some other things in the community that I might struggle with. And I say, you know, that person is me, struggling for their own awareness and their consciousness and I struggle in my way just because, you know, sometimes I will pick up the cups of coffee and bring it to the kitchen and then sometimes I say, no, if I leave it there, then maybe that person will remember. And then maybe I've made them miss their opportunity. I think about it. I work with seeing, you know, if I'm angry at some situation, I say, you know, that could be me. And that's the way I work. Thank you. I was creating so much suffering in my own mind when I lived here that at one point I thought, I was sitting in Zazden and I thought, I'm going to have a business card made and all it's going to say on the front is, none of mine. That's a good one. And I actually did.

[35:43]

Family. I'll give it up. You know, I think you can't see virtue unless you have a calm mind, you can't see virtue. So the effort is finding our imperturbable way-seeking mind, right? So that you could say that's the practice. And then what you do when you encounter the dirty cup, there's no, I mean, you can leave it thinking the person will come back and you can take it, but secretly you don't want anybody to see that you're gathering cups necessarily and being such a good bodhisattva that you're, you know, the story of Suzuki Roshi cleaning the bathrooms in the middle of the night, right? There's a story of Suzuki Roshi when he was at Komazawa University in the dorm and the bathrooms were not very, were not, this is the Soto Zen University where the monks in preschool, and the bathroom was just not taken care of and he couldn't stand it

[36:47]

and he wanted to clean it, but he didn't want people to see him clean it because then he would be doing it for all the, he wasn't doing it so that people would think he was a good or better than them, it would be putting himself above others. So he did it in the night secretly. He would wait till people were asleep, but then he secretly kind of wanted them to know he was doing it and this struggle with his ego about what if they saw me, well I kind of want them to know, but I don't want them to know because that's, right? So I think at the end he just threw the whole thing out the window and just cleaned the bathroom whether anybody saw him or not, and he just, that kind of mind, you cannot settle, right? And he just, ah, just cleaned the bathrooms, who cares, like that. So same thing with the dirty cups and all the other things that we see, the showers that need scrubbing and just all of it. Each of us has to settle what we're going to do when we encounter this,

[37:52]

this is our life, this is our study of the self, what you do with the dirty cup and what arises in you around it. And also having compassion for others who are as distracted or suffering or whatever so that they forgot the cup was there, you know, that's in there too. Or maybe there was a fire drill and they left it and ran. What's in there? It's not necessarily, we can't jump to conclusions. So anyway, this is Genjo Koan, this is the Koan of everyday life. These are the encounters in the minutia, in the details of our living together that are very painful. And this is in all monastic situations. This is, from what I've read of Christian monasteries, and this is living closely together and intimately. This is family life, this is human beings.

[38:56]

Yes? I can't remember what precedes the final comment, but the one that comes to my mind that I, I think it's been a large part of my practice, it's what concludes an appropriate response. I can't remember who said it or when. Well the question is what is the culmination of practice and the answer is an appropriate response. But I don't remember where that first came from, but that's one. But that to me is also part of that, what you do in those situations, what is, from what your practice has become, whether it's cups or whatever, what's appropriate. And with big mind, this Dai Shin, whatever comes, it's your life. Someone else may look at that cup, first of all, maybe they don't even see it, or it's like, anyway, how you react to the cup,

[40:03]

it's not inherent in that old cup, we're talking about cups again, or dirty shower, your relationship to that is your life and nobody, I'm speaking to you, but I don't mean to scare you, that's your reaction and your emotions and your whatever it is, that's you, that's your world, that's your life. It's not something out there, some old dirty shower. How you see it, relate to it, and what you do is your life. And that's not figuratively speaking. Shall we move on? I was just going to say it doesn't exist until you come into contact with it. There is no such thing as a dirty shower, really. When someone else comes and exists in another way, they have just all these many existences. That's right. And it's all just opportunity, it's just Buddha Dharma, you know, it's just Buddha Dharma, whatever it is.

[41:06]

So, Linda, when you see a dirty shower or a Marley mug, I mean, you've practiced for a number of years, what's your, you know, if you see a Marley mug out in the garden... Yeah. Do you... Well, you know, I can't answer that right now. How about the last time you saw it? Well, what occurs to me is the toilets, some of these toilets we encountered in China actually is what occurs to me. Some of these what? Toilets we encountered in China. We were told that we would be going certain places where the facilities, the bathroom facilities would be not what we're used to, you know. But... So this one, and Catherine can attest to this, several were like this, where it was like... Do you mind me going into this? No, that's safe. It was like a trough, and then sort of these dividers, sometimes divided with no doors, and a low divider, not a big...

[42:08]

So, like, if you were squatting, you couldn't see the person next to you, but there were just these dividers, no doors, and then there was no... Several of them had no water flowing, so it was just this trough with the... defecation and so forth of everybody who had been there for I don't know how long, for the day at least, and I guess they would come in with a hose maybe. So, you know, I could imagine me having a state of mind saying, I can't do this, you know, I'm not going in there or whatever, or I could imagine somebody... But my state of mind in China was, whatever, man, you know. It's like, whatever. It's like it did not bother me, I swear, in the least. It was so fascinating and so interesting and such a strong experience. And then when we were all in there together,

[43:10]

sort of all squatting in, the whole thing was just such a kick. But in another state of mind, you know, to walk into a bathroom like that, like in Mill Valley or something, I mean, it's just like... It would be condemned, you know. It would open sort of troughs of feces. You wouldn't see it. And I may never see it again. It depends if I go to Asia, but... No toilet paper, of course, and no nothing. But I just... I mean, this isn't like patting my own... That was where I was at. I was just like... So it's not... There isn't anything inherent in any situation, really, that necessarily means one thing or another. And you can take that to the most extreme. You know, of being tortured and forgiving your torturers, which we've heard stories about this. So I don't know.

[44:12]

When you see the Marley mug in the garden, it depends on my state of mind. Really. It really does. I am bound and determined to... Yes. That's OK. We don't have to finish this. It seems like it takes most of my energy just to watch my own Marley mugs, you know, symbolically. I mean, just to keep... Like leaving no trace wherever I go and keeping things clean and just my own observing, trying to act mindfully and observe the precepts. It just takes... Almost consumes all of my energy. So that seems... You know, that becomes my focus mostly. Yes. To let that go, what other people's practice is... This is something Suzuki Roshi said to... It's in one of these lectures with the question and answer at the end,

[45:13]

that was in the windmill. And someone said something like, well, you know, people aren't practicing hard enough. He was the Eno, I think. And he had to get on everybody. They weren't coming to the Zendo. And Suzuki Roshi said something like, sometimes you just shouldn't look. You just don't look. Because it can be very disturbing. So the practice is eyes cast down. You just... You know, if it's part of your job or someone brings it to your attention, you have to do it. You have to take it on. But if it's really not in your... Bailiwick? Is that the word? It's not on your watch? Maybe you just... You can't do it, you know? It's too disturbing. So you don't look. I thought that was great. Rather than you've got to... You know, this kind of Zen mania for taking care of everything and making sure, you know, you just let it go. Like one's room.

[46:14]

What? Like one's room. Well, that's why we have room cleaning every week. We used to have roomies. Because you're just so pressured by everything in the practice room. You just don't have time. Yeah, exactly. I did. Is that for your meal show? Oh, it's not amidst the six flavors? The ten virtues, I guess. Well, that comes in... I don't know if you can do it here, but the shuso would say that... This food of three virtues and six tastes. That's it. The main chant. It's the shuso, or the leader of the chant, if there isn't a shuso, says that this food of three virtues and six tastes is offered to Buddha and Sangha. That one? We don't say it anymore? We say it... What do we say? We say it at lunch. This food of three virtues and six tastes.

[47:14]

The shuso or the chant leader does. It's an extra little blip at the end after the long chant. And in the morning they say this food, this meal of ten benefits nurtures us in our own practice. And then at lunch they say this. So let's just name the six tastes. Sweet. Sour. Salty. Bitter. Spicy. Simple. Hot. And sometimes the simple is also mild or plain. And spicy and hot is the same. So bitter, sour, simple, mild or plain. Sweet, spicy or hot or salty. And the three virtues? Did you read about the three virtues? Soft. That's what it says. I know it is. Soft, clean and in accord with Dharma. The other translations are mildness and cleanliness, mildness, cleanliness and formality. And then

[48:16]

light and flexible, clean and neat, conscientious and thorough. Anyway, I thought that was interesting. Those three virtues and the different translations. But basically in accord with Dharma is the virtue there. Okay. How are we doing here? Okay. So it says if it doesn't have the six flavors or the three virtues, the Tenzo is not serving the community. And then later on while examining the rice watch for sand, while examining the sand watch for rice, if you... And then if you don't have the six flavors because you think, well, gee, every meal doesn't have those six flavors. You're not really saying you want six flavors in every meal, are you? Three virtues, yes. Okay, so in accord with Buddha's way, flexible or soft, clean, yeah, that's okay. I can imagine three virtues

[49:19]

in every meal, but six flavors, that would be too much. But later it says if you minutely observe from different viewpoints without absent-mindedness, then naturally the food will integrate the three virtues and include the six tastes. So I actually felt that this wasn't the six tastes literally, although within sweet there is salty, you know, actually there is salt in all foods. There's, or you can't say all, but there is sodium, right, or is sodium salt? Sodium, chlorine. In many, many, many foods, right, it already has its own natural salt, and if you cut out salt from your diet, adding salt, you taste the natural salt, and maybe there's a natural bitter and a natural, or it's the subtlety of it, it may all be there within, or the fact that you taste sweet, the only way you know sweet is because

[50:21]

you know bitter, you know, if you taste sweet it brings up the other, so in some ways, you pull up one, you pull up sour, and it includes, you only know sour because of these other six, the other five. They inform each other, you know? Are you following what I'm saying? So that's how I understood it. If you're paying attention, it's all there, you know, either actually on, it's all there, even on the tongue, by virtue of you can't taste sweet without knowing, without the contrast of the other side, just like light and dark are relative to one another, yes. I'm wondering about this, if you minutely observe from different viewpoints, you know, what viewpoint do we have other than our own viewpoint, in a sense, you know, when you're... Yeah, let me just see what the other translations are, if that's alright. Pay

[51:23]

full attention to your work in preparing the meal, attend to every aspect yourself, so yeah, so it will naturally turn out well. Here it is. When you look at the rice, see the sand at the same time, when you look at the sand, see also the rice, examine both carefully, then a meal containing the six flavors and the three qualities will come together naturally. So this doesn't say from other viewpoints it says examine both carefully, this is the sand and the... So this is Uchiyama Roshi and let's see what this one says, if you'll allow me. Personally examine the rice and sand

[52:24]

so that rice is not thrown away as sand. In preparing food, the Tenzo should personally look at it to see that it is thoroughly clean. Do not waste rice when pouring... Watch for... Watch for rice when you throw it away. If you look carefully with your mind undistracted, naturally the three virtues will be fulfilled and the six tastes will be complete. So this is looking carefully with your mind undistractedly, and this is if you minutely observe from different viewpoints. He's saying two viewpoints, right? Oh, I see. Looking at the rice... Thank you, thank you. Looking minutely, first you look at the sand, is there rice there? Then you look at the rice, is there sand there? And then there was another note in one of these

[53:25]

that may also be sand and rice, the sand may be distracted thoughts and the rice may be you know, looking separating those and make sure you distinguish those. Another kind of figurative... From different viewpoints without absent-mindedness. Yeah. Can I ask a quick question? What does the sand have to do with... What does that mean? Why would there be sand in the rice? Well, what they were saying in China at that time they would remove... Polish. They would polish the rice and there would also be... When we saw the rice being laid out there was chaff and it was on the ground and there would be little bits of stone and there'd be just stuff in it so you'd separate out and have to be careful that it was really clean. So I think it's different from, you know, the rice we get

[54:26]

in our big 50-pound bags, you know, is really clean, right? I mean, we rinse it but it doesn't have much stone or... I mean, occasionally you might find a little piece of something in there but... Like in beans you'd find a stone. Definitely. Okay. So then there's the story of Shui Feng and Deng Shan which I'd like to save maybe for our enactment of it, okay? For the Tenzo, rolling up the sleeves is the mind of the way. You know, rolling up the sleeves, the robes, this is a work robe, this is like sleeves rolled up, you might say, but the long sleeves, there's a way of tucking them back or tying them back which is

[55:27]

maybe symbolic of let's get down to work, it's like what do we say in English? Roll up your sleeves. We roll them up, right? It's just like that. These are tying up the sleeves, so tying up the sleeves is the mind of the way. This is practice realization. This is not... Is this too cold? It's too drafty? Okay. If you have made a mistake cleaning rice and sand, correct it by yourself. The Shing Yi says when you cook food, if you intimately and personally look after it, it will naturally be pure. I was told when I became Tenzin that if the floor wasn't clean the food would not taste good and I remember thinking what do you mean? It's not like you're dropping the food on the floor and scraping it back up and serving it.

[56:29]

What it... I kind of wondered what that really had to do. Figuratively speaking it meant take care of everything. But I think actually if you're not taking care of the big picture, you're actually not taking care of the food even if you think you're a great cook and follow the recipe perfectly. So if you intimately and personally look after it, it will be naturally pure. This is pure food for the monks that you're offering. But also there is something to say for cooking food with love and care and attention that is actually healthier food to give to people. You actually... I was reading this... I get this women's newsletter Christine Northrup, maybe some of you know she has a book Women's Wisdom... Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom She has this monthly newsletter and this particular newsletter was about

[57:33]

organic foods and cancer and flaxseed and many different things and she said she was recommending a particular flaxseed that she feels is very good and someone wrote in to say that's not organic flaxseed and then she wrote this long article about how these people that she knows and knows the farm, grow the flax and how they tend it and how they harvest it and it's not strictly organic due to such and such which they have worked out and basically at the end of the article she said what's even more important than organic sometimes is whether it's done with love and care. You actually receive that in a subtle way into your bodies and it may be more important than these other things we usually hold to that are the most important things so there it was in Dogen if you intimately and personally look after it

[58:34]

it will be naturally pure Can I ask you something? There's a lot of yourself and personally and so on why do you think he emphasizes that? I mean, what's wrong with sharing that? Yeah, because he says that over and over doing it with your own hands or watch the rice with your own do these jobs yourself prepare the vegetables by yourself with your own hands why do you think he might be saying this? Do you have just a take on it? Why he might be? Sounds like he's attached to the idea Attached to the idea I don't know, that's what I ask I have just a take on it but does anyone else have a sense of why he might be saying that? Because he doesn't he doesn't in an ideal situation to not be afforded the opportunity to neglect or slap with some things just sort of giving that to someone else

[59:36]

because you don't feel like doing it or whatever rather than possibly picking and choosing certain tasks to do because you want to get it done for whatever reason that you just do everything yourself and very carefully Who do you think he's talking to here? I think who his audience was I think is kind of important too in this this community this particular community I don't know but I wonder when he's talking about the Tenzo he means the Tenzo but he also means the whole kitchen crew I think this is advice to the Tenzo that was disseminated among the monks at I think he's talking to more than just

[60:36]

the Tenzo, I think he's talking to all the monks about how you about this particular mind this is the mind, a practice mind that he's talking about another thing that occurred to me it comes in later, he brings up the example of a Tenzo who wasn't an example for the community he laid around on his bed all day and read sutras and chanted a little bit never walked into the kitchen, never saw a pot delegated the whole thing and you guys do it, okay so I'm head cook well, gives me a chance to take a break so I think he may have been countering the misunderstanding or the not yet educated in this Sung Dynasty way of taking care of food that he was so struck by and it was so important to him when he went there and he was trying to impart this to

[61:38]

the benighted Japanese practitioners who didn't yet know this the importance of this making pure food for the monks, for the Sangha so I think he just emphasizes it over and over that this is, it's not beneath you to do all these tasks this is this is your practice realization right here, don't be fooled so I think he emphasizes it as a corrective action too, yes I don't think it was any different back then, I mean it's like people I know in my mind as soon as I've been around for a while I think, well you know what I shouldn't have to do all that you know, I mean let those newcomers do it you know, I worked hard already you know I'm sure it probably wasn't any different back then well I think that's true, you know

[62:41]

we come into these jobs sometimes and we have a hierarchical thinking about what is beneath, you know I worked for a woman who hired a cleaning lady and the cleaning lady said I don't fetch and I don't stoop you know, that was part of what she wouldn't do in the job, you know whatever that meant to her and some people, and I know another person said, I will not get down on my knees to scrub floors you know, now that's their world their mother had to wash floors for a living she would not do that but when I was given the job of washing floors during a session once you know, I was down on my knees in SESA with my bucket and the bubbles and my brush and I thought I'm just going to throw myself into this job I had never washed a floor on my knees either, dipping it in and then I did this thing where I stretched

[63:42]

out with a big round circle like a yogic thing, you know round, you know, and then I saw this rainbow of bubbles, just you know, and then there was another one and another one this is washing the floors on your knees, I mean it was like the greatest thing I had ever done and I hadn't dropped acid or anything so so what we have in mind about I don't stoop and I don't wash floors on my knees, you know, it's like you're missing, you know one of the most enjoyable opportunities of your life but we have man, I want to be a manly man and I don't do this and this is woman's work and right it's all broken up the whole world is all broken up into little categories that we don't, you know that mean things and that we're above or below that and this is, right

[64:44]

I mean, really so, and then you come into a Zen monastery this is the ideal, you might say and you find like the shuso, speaking of toilets, the shuso's job is cleaning the toilets, the shuso, the head monk is the toilet cleaner now you think the head monk, they sit next to the abbot or the abbess, they they face out, they get served they do the ceremonies they wash Manjushri for his bath, they do everything and they're the toilet cleaner, is there some, did I hear you right, you know this is like flipping the world upside down there's no categories, the world is not made of categories we make the categories and your categories and my categories are very different, right what's menial to somebody is you know heavenly realms so I think it's this, you do it yourself

[65:48]

and you find out if you're paying full attention and throwing yourself in full body and mind wholeheartedly the world reveals itself to you in all its bubbles bubbles, yeah, in all its inconceivable life I don't know what to say yes, Michael sorry, I'm going along with what you're saying I'm struck with how much this is talking about paying attention to yourself and let it go you know, let it go there's work to be done and so forth, but keep your eyes down pay attention to yourself and don't worry about what anybody else is doing yet that is counterbalanced with an intense hierarchy, an intense organization and rather you know, intense expectations, so how does

[66:49]

it get done, how is it that things do get done when the practice is to pay very close attention to self when in actuality it seems like what really gets done is stuff on the self as well as that which is out well, what do you call the self? well, yeah you know and it goes on further where it talks about putting high things on a high shelf and low things on a low shelf and we may think high is better, I mean our oreo bowls, we're supposed to put them up, they don't go on the shoe racks, but it's not that up is better and low is worse, it's just that certain things go on high shelves and other things go on low shelves, each thing has its place there's the categories of good and bad, you know, it's just each thing has

[67:50]

an appropriate way to be with it but it's quarter two and I didn't get to this I have to get to this because I've been wanting to since last week which is about this mouse thing so this next paragraph about keep the white water that drains and so forth and it's really the details in Uchiyama Roshi it says Dogen takes us by the hand and shows us about Zen practice and here it's really you take a bag and you strain the leftover water and you use that you don't waste anything but this next thing, after you've collected the ingredients in a pot you must be sure to protect it from old mice falling in by mistake, also do not allow whoever idly wanders by to examine it or touch it and for those of you who know this story know that a year ago, I think it was fall practice period at Tassahara

[68:52]

the soup came in you know and it was served and someone from across the row saw this person be served and they thought oh she's getting so many vegetables in her bowl, I wish I got more vegetables in mine but that person had received in her bowl for soup there was a mouse and she set it down and put her hands for the for the for the soku, the head server to come and take her bowl which she did and then I guess afterwards people were not so happy that it wasn't announced the soku came out and said there will be no seconds offered on the second time they didn't tell us why well they arranged it I don't know they said that they called some authorities in between and found out it would probably not be a help but meanwhile everybody's eating their soup, right?

[69:54]

so who was there at the practice period? I don't know you were there? anyway, I've read this before about the whole mouse filing in, thinking well, you know, nowadays this would never happen but there it is there it is, right there I wonder why it's an old mouse going on in the kitchens even in the lockers why is it an old mouse? it's an old mouse and in the other translations in one of them it's a rat it says when the proper amount of rice and water is put into an iron pot guard it with attention so that rats do not touch it or people who are curious do not look in at it because this is another story that I wanted to tell tonight I think I could tell during the same practice period where there was no food I told him about the practice period last time where Susan, you weren't here either that the road at Tassajara was blocked by boulders

[70:56]

and there couldn't store the stores were not there wasn't a lot of store of rice and grain and everything in Tassajara and they couldn't get anything in and so it dwindled down to wheat berries and salt I think is what we had left I wasn't down there but what was left of Tassajara and anyway before it was just wheat berries for breakfast they would have gruel gruel is the leftovers of the day would be served for breakfast now we do gruel at night and fresh grain for breakfast but the gruel would be prepared and then put on the stove and kind of cook all night and people would sneak in they weren't getting enough food or they were anxious about getting enough food they may have been getting enough and they would sneak into the kitchen at night and eat the gruel well the Tenzo at Brown realized that people were stealing the gruel which he was completely

[71:58]

outraged at so he decided that he would stay in the kitchen didn't tell anybody stay in the kitchen in the night and wait to see who was stealing so the stoves at Tassajara great big stoves and in between I don't know if we have this here I can't picture it right now there were two stoves and then a kind of grill in between that had a wooden top and he sat up on the grill sat Zazen in the dark with a kitchen knife to scare the person and in the night whoever it was came tiptoeing into the kitchen and he went I don't know what he did or something scared the wits out of him anyway I think he was trying to make sure that nobody poked their fingers

[72:59]

around or looked into the pot he was just doing his job just doing his job who was it? I don't know actually no mouse there's other stories about stealing food from the kitchen which I will not tell tonight because shall we just ask for volunteers and we just break into little clumps in the room and you decide what you want to do is that ok? yes? ok so I think we need a group of three or maybe two groups of three to be Xue Feng and Deng Shan and a narrator so two groups of three do you want to just clump? should we just go around and count? yeah will that work that way? yeah what about us foreigners who don't live here? we won't count yeah I think

[74:00]

it won't work to count just because it's not even groups do you know what I mean? two groups of three one two three oh I see we could do that ok how about this two groups of three one two three and then what about um Susan do you think you could get together with Judith and Jim? I'd prefer not we need an audience right? alright so Gwen do you think you could talk with them and maybe work out it's a simple one I think the Xue Feng story ok so one two three one two three and now we need um another group of three I think the Tenzo and the narrator plus two so another group of three Linnea Mary and Michael one two three and another group

[75:01]

one two three you three ok can you be more specific about which story yeah so the first two groups of three are Xue Feng and Deng Shan page thirty five the rice and the overturning the pot and then the next group of threes is page forty page forty which is um at Tien Tong Tenzo named Yong the first one yeah the Tenzo at Tien Tong named Yong who said what time should I he was with the mushrooms in front of the Buddha Hall drying them ok ok so that's that second group ok now we've got the ship's captain the one with the captain so we need a group of

[76:02]

um so I think it's one two three four five that's page forty forty two forty through forty two so on page forty at the top is the Duke let's just be quiet for one second so um at the bottom of page forty just hold it a second at the top of page forty there's the monk who um was drying the mushrooms and had the shaggy eyebrows ok so that's you guys then at the bottom of page forty and forty goes to forty two I think forty through forty two is the it's a longer one with lots of narration about the guy who came to the ship and he had that long conversation with him so that I included but they're not speaking parts unless you want to make them the captain and the crew member who he bought the mushrooms from Dogen the Tenzo and the narrator

[77:05]

so that's one two three four five ok so one two three four five ok that's that one group do you all know it's ending with Michael ok and then the last one is on page forty two see how many do we have left who need a let's see you weren't here we're going to do theatrical things right do we need another group of five maybe one two three four five and then on the floor yeah ok so another group of five you don't want to do it so one two three you can do a narrator or a crew member even one two three four Catherine is five on this this is the ship's the ship ok and then it started with what do you think no because

[78:06]

Barbara's not going to do it and then Linda and Anna and Leslie and I forgot Jesse so you folks can do the last one on page forty two where that same Tenzo goes to the monastery and meets up with him again and talks with him again and that's on page forty two ok so why don't you all clump in different parts so you can talk to each other you guys come over here would you mind if we borrow a different translation just for a second

[78:47]

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