This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. So good evening, everyone, and I will try to speak loudly enough for everyone. And if anyone has trouble hearing me, there's space here to bring a chair. So far, can people hear me? Okay, good. So tonight I'm going to talk about the precepts. And this is sort of foundation of our tradition and our practice. But the reason I've been thinking about them is because a few people have asked to sew these raksus with me for lay initiation. And that means taking the precepts. A few things have happened lately that have just kind of caught me off guard and been strange and hurtful and confusing.

[01:07]

And so I was thinking, okay, here I am in the middle of all of this. What do I do? Or how do I see it? So I first, I don't usually read poems, but I'm going to read one tonight. This one is by a 12th century Chinese poet named Xin Ji Jie. And there's a couple of lines in each stanza that repeat. So that's not me. It's the poem. I didn't know the taste of sadness in my youth. I loved to climb towers. I loved to climb towers. And in my poems, I forced myself to speak of sadness. Knowing the taste of sadness now too well, I start to speak of it, but stop. I start to speak of it, but stop, and say instead, what a chilly autumn day.

[02:09]

So there are 16 of these bodhisattva precepts, and we chant three of them, every morning before service. And those are the refuges. And the first one, we take refuge in Buddha, who is the exemplar of transformation. Then the Dharma, which is the teaching or the tools of transformation. And then the Sangha, which includes us, who are those who have the potential for transformation. So we take these refuges. And those refuges are a statement of faith, which, and along with a statement of faith, comes a statement of humility. And so that's one of the foundations for understanding the precepts. The next three of the precepts are the pure precepts. And I think of these as commitment to do good, not to do evil, and to live for the welfare of all beings.

[03:19]

So that's our commitment. That's what we say. Okay, I'm going to take refuge, and then I'm going to make a commitment. And then there are these ten grave precepts. And a lot of you know these already, but they are vows not to kill, not to steal, not to misuse sexuality, not to lie, to refrain from intoxicants, not to slander... not to praise self at the expense of others, and not to be avaricious or stingy with anything, including the teaching, not to harbor ill will or resentment, and not to disparage or act in a way to undermine or destroy the three treasures, Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. So the tenth of the precepts brings us back to the refuges. So we've done this little circle, which often happens in Buddhist teaching. So as far as I can tell, the ten grave precepts name things that all of us do to some extent all of the time, and we say, I vow not to.

[04:30]

So what is the purpose of that? One thing is that there wouldn't be any point to vowing not to do something that we don't do. I mean, what would there be there for us to work with, right? So... So what is the purpose of these vows then? Why do we decide to work with them, practice with them, take them? And how do we keep and break the precepts? So I think if we consider that enlightenment is transformation, then we need to consider, you know, what transformation means and how it happens, how it occurs, how we nurture it or cultivate it. And what I think taking these vows not to do the things we habitually do, the intention of that is to deepen our self-knowledge and our self-understanding.

[05:46]

So usually our way of approaching the precepts or doing anything is through survival, self-justification. And so we often take the precepts and kind of manipulate them to be about everybody else, or we use them to shame ourselves or something like that. So we twist them around. And that's a perspective that I think is meant in the Dhammapada when it says, you know, they insulted me, they hurt me, they defeated me, they robbed me. It's that attitude that these things are happening to us and that others are somehow kind of responsible or they make it continue our suffering, as we call it. And it is true that we'll be insulted.

[06:57]

And what was it? Insulted, hurt, defeated, and robbed. Because all of us are doing that to some extent. So, you know, we're kind of all in this. And what the Dhammapada is trying to say is it's your how you see that, how you interpret it. If you interpret it with hate or if you interpret it with some deeper sense of cultivation. And, you know, we do these things not because we're cruel or selfish or anything in particular, but they're just these tools that we have kind of learned to survive, to be safe, to be right, to continue. So the Dhammapada in that same section says... What we are today comes from our thoughts of yesterday. And our present thoughts build our life of tomorrow.

[08:01]

Our life is the creation of our mind. So, you know, as we sort of do this thing of self-justification, we're going in a circle. And what the precepts are trying to do is pull us a little sideways out of that circle. So you... Instead, I think of it as you start doing more of a spiral. So it's not like, you know, you don't do these things anymore. But it sort of moves in different directions. And I think, you know, a lot of times when I study the precepts or think about the precepts, it's kind of gloomy. You know, just all these, you think, oh, all these awful things everybody does. But I think that... this deep self-understanding is also the source of our self-compassion and our compassion for others. Now, I know, you know, very practically, we often think of compassion as helping others.

[09:12]

And, you know, it's good to help others. There's nothing wrong with that. But usually we're doing it from our idea of what we think other people need. And so that is not bad, but it's sort of a form of pity. So this kind of compassion that you're developing through, for instance, working with precepts, is actually you have to get out of its way. And in order to get out of its way, there's this deconstructive process that allows that to happen or that you work towards happening. And I find that this deconstructive process can be really horrible. I feel like I'm getting taken apart. But then it puts me back together. And that happens over and over and over. I just, you know, even writing this talk, I was just like, oh, God, you know, does this sound?

[10:14]

And then all of a sudden I felt sort of like, oh. oh, this is good, you know, that's a nice poem. You know, I sort of felt better. And I think that's also how it works. It reminds me a lot of 12-step work where you just are like, oh, you know, this effort that you make with that. And then there's these moments of freedom and ease and understanding of yourself and others. And I just started reading about this system of thoughts That's called fast and slow. So I don't deeply understand it. But the first one, as far as I can understand, is kind of our survival thinking. It's quick, quick. We have to make decisions. But then there's a slow kind of thinking that, you know, it takes more time. And it requires us to kind of push the boundaries of what we already know.

[11:16]

Extend them. And I think that requires listening, reflection, and all these things that Buddhism is trying to teach us. So I think that there are two basic ways to break the precepts. One of them is to use them to blame or praise ourselves. and the other is to use them to blame or praise others. Because these are tools of transformation, and that's not their purpose. Their purpose isn't to point fingers towards ourselves or others. It's these tools of transformation that always are working. And there's this... exercise that i just kind of intuitively developed and it might not work for some of you but it's it's um it's called it's it's this thing where i say what part of this belongs to me and what part of this belongs to the other like if i'm in a conversation or an argument or like some of those things i told you just recently happened i'm like ah you know what what did what what part of it belongs to me and

[12:42]

that's the only part I can change. But I can also see where the boundary is. I don't have to fix the part that belongs to the other because I can't. But the part that belongs to me, I can work with. And I think that's sort of hinted at in, you know, not praising self at the expense of others. We, you know, we... We have plenty of rules and guidelines and limitations that we can actually apply to hold each other accountable. But we don't have to do it in this way of praising self at the expense of others. Instead, it's a sort of mutual, this sense of mutuality. So I think transformation in Buddhism, it's not magical and it's not mundane.

[13:51]

And I came across a quote by Kierkegaard. He wrote, It is perfectly true, as the philosophers say, that life must be understood backwards, but they forget the other proposition, that it must be lived forwards. So that's what I think this deepening of our understanding does, is it gives us this different perspective for this forward motion of our lives. We can be slower in a certain way because of this understanding and think more slowly. And as we get closer to what's actually happening, there's... We... We are in something that is in the form of equanimity and generosity.

[14:57]

So I think that this way of working with the precepts and everything is less triumphant and sort of self-congratulatory, and it's actually very poignant. You know, even if there is reincarnation and rebirth and all those things, at this moment in this life, we are this person. And this is the only chance we have under these circumstances to do whatever it is we're going to do. And that's the kind of feeling that I hear, you know, in Shinji Jir's poem. We love to climb towers, you know, safe. We're right. And, you know, everybody else just a little off, you know, but we're up on our tower. And but then something moves us or we hear something like a teaching or we read a book or something like that.

[16:05]

And it's not so simple. And I think we start to feel this poignancy and it also allows us to see certain types of beauty that are not accessible to us otherwise. When we're too high up on the tower, we miss a lot. So in these circumstances that I was recently in, I kept being very tempted to sort of get in there and say, but you said, you know, or what are you doing? You know, things like that. And the words in this poem, I start, but then I stop. And it was very helpful just to hear that line over and over. I start to speak of it, but stop. And I got very quiet.

[17:07]

I got much more relaxed about the whole thing. I was able to write. you know, often email things, you know. And just be very simple and straightforward. And then at one point I said to someone, okay, this is the last time I will write to you. And it was a big relief and it seemed appropriate. And then a whole bunch of other stuff has happened. But, you know, I started to speak of it, but stop. I wanted to hold them accountable, you know, for the whole thing. So these precepts, you know, we begin with faith, humility, and commitment. And then we struggle and make this effort towards self-knowledge. And that leads to both clarity and generosity. So... The poem, you know, of course, is not about any of this, but it conveys, I think, the feeling of it.

[18:13]

So I'll read it once more. I didn't know the taste of sadness in my youth. I loved to climb towers. I loved to climb towers. And in my poems, I forced myself to speak of sadness. Knowing the taste of sadness now too well, I start to speak of it, but stopped. I start to speak of it, but stop and say instead, what a chilly autumn day. Thank you very much. And if anyone has comments or questions. Thank you very much. to speak at the stop and saying something, it feels like something that I've been working with when there's suffering happening within me to turn my thoughts to gratitude and seeing how supported I am.

[19:29]

And then sometimes, but sometimes it's important to speak of it. And I'm wondering in your practice, how do you know Is there a time when you can know more about when to stop speaking about it or not speak about it and see this beautiful autumn day? And when to speak of it in an appropriate container within that question? Well, I think in a certain way you've sort of answered your own question. But I also, I did speak in those situations. But I didn't do it by saying, well, you're talking about right speech. Well, what about what you're doing? So instead of sort of coming at it from this perspective of, well, I know the teachings, or I know these precepts, or I know what's right. Instead say, this situation is like this.

[20:38]

and just say it. That's what I came up with. Rather than using some justification, that was what I didn't do, or what I decided not to do. That's how those words came to me. So I think it's more about, what are we trying to do? Are you trying to manipulate somebody to feel sorry for you? Are you actually trying to communicate with someone? Like, what is it you're doing? And you don't have to say, oh, I'm terrible to do one and wonderful to do another. But, you know, what is it that's actually happening? I think that's the way it works. Because you're going to start over and over again, just like the 12 steps, you know, you go circle, around, around. And that's why we take the precepts so often. You know, at least once a month. And sometimes, you know, we always do that and we do the refuges more often. Does that sort of answer?

[21:40]

I was thinking more about internally when there's things that come up rather than from the outside. When I'm having parts of me come up that I don't want to be there. But they are. Yeah, they are. Sometimes they really want to speak. Try it. You know, experiment. Yeah, you're right. I think I found that I do need to speak more sometimes in the right anatomy. I try to, you know, there's that perfectionism of holding it all together somehow. And somehow that looks a certain way. Yeah, it's nice to be human. I heard someone's voice.

[23:15]

Precepts are the 10. But in order to... The 10 gray precepts. But in order to have a foundation to actually practice with them, you first need to make a statement that puts you in some kind of context. You know, why would you do them? And so I think it's very helpful in grounding that you first take refuge. In other words, it's like saying... I, you know, the first step of 12 steps, I admitted, I can't remember the exact words, other people probably know it, but I admitted that things were out of control, right? So that's kind of what we're saying when we take refuge in Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha, is, oh, I have to say something, you know, I have to make some statement about how this, you know, basically I call it, I need help, you know? So that's taking refuge has that quality to it.

[24:16]

And I'm not sure if that's answering your question. Is it? Well, you know, we have a tendency to think of Sangha as this loving, wonderful community where everybody's happy, right? And it's actually just everyone as they are. So we do this overlay on that word and on the concept of it. But then when we're in it, we're in it, and so is everyone else and all of our aspects of our lives. So that's what the Sangha is. It's those who have the potential for transformation, which is basically everyone. It's not really community in the sense that we often... understand it. That's my interpretation. I had a question.

[25:22]

Thank you. You said that there was, you said three things, that there was faith, humility, and commitment. That's what the precepts are kind of, you're doing. when you do them? I was just wondering if you could speak on that a little bit more. Well, I think in order to practice the ten great precepts, just as I was sort of saying a minute ago, there has to be these foundational statements or contexts that are created. So when you create the context of the refuges, that's when you're making a statement of faith and humility. You're saying, within this context of the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha, the exemplar of enlightenment, the teachings and tools of transformation and enlightenment, and those who have the potential for it. You place your faith there that these things are potentials for everyone, including oneself.

[26:29]

And that is a form of humility because you're saying, oh, I need help. It will take all that. Then the pure precepts are just kind of straightforward statements. Do good, avoid evil, and live for the welfare of all beings. Well, how do you do that? So that's a statement of commitment. And then the 10 precepts are when you start to do the work. And you said it in a way to understand what I've got the second part. You said do those three things to get kind of, you said two other words. Two other words. Yeah. It was just very succinct. What did I say? Oh, it's right here. Let's see. These are a statement of commitment.

[27:37]

That was all I said. Then there are foundation. Oh, a willingness to listen and to be turned or changed. A willingness to listen and to be turned or changed, which I might have said about the refuges. there's a question but there are two things that you said and one was sort of like this idea of being able to be neutral which I see the poem saying look at something as a chilly autumn day rather than judging it as good or bad so the question I'm trying to ask is the idea of

[28:37]

using maybe right speech as part of that. And I've been trying to practice a way of finding a simpler way to work with people when I have need to quickly. You said the other thing you brought up was fast and slow. When I need to quickly look, give instructions to somebody and want them to do it the way I found to do it. need it done a certain way like how a roof should be put on correctly and do it my way because I found that way to be quick and then someone else comes and says well I've always done it a different way and then I want to get to the place of neutral but also not try to make it right or wrong but just let's get there fast or let's get there I don't know. Let me just stop there and see if that makes sense.

[29:39]

Well, isn't it interesting that we think that if we're going to be fast, often it ends up taking longer. That's what I have found. And so if I spend more time, you know, kind of... Have you been watching us work? But if I spend more time, which is actually not that much more time, but do it with a certain manner or something like that, which gives the other person time too, then it often is quicker than trying to be fast. So in a way, it's not neutrality. It's kind of this combination of determination and listening. Because you're not listening to see what the person's going to say or do or something, but you're... you're seeing if they're listening to you or they've heard you. It's very delicate. And, you know, it's such an experiment, right?

[30:45]

But I think it's sort of like what Kierkegaard was saying, you know, we live forwards. You know, we don't live in the same way that we understand. So as you're going forward, can you sort of pull that understanding with you, you know, so that it's... Kind of going forward too. So that's where I think, you know, that's where the slow part comes in. Pulling this off. Okay. Yes. Yes. I like the metaphor he had of the circle and how the precepts help to pull it apart a little bit so it becomes more of a spiral. And I wondered if you could just talk a little bit more about that. Well, I was, you know, as I work with him, as I say, you know, I feel like I keep getting taken apart and then put back together.

[31:51]

And so I tried to think of an image that... I could work with that. And there's this book, one of my favorite codependent type books, you know, and my favorite author, Charles Whitfield, has this book Healing the Child Within. And when he gets to the spiritual part, there's this little chart. And the progress on that chart is this spiral. And sometimes it's wide and sometimes it gets narrower. And it just keeps going. And, you know, it sort of tends in this direction, but it's a spiral, so you just keep going through that process. And that's what I remembered when I was... And so that image has been very helpful to me. So that's what it's like. And as I said, sometimes it's not the same spiral. It's kind of going... And sometimes it kind of goes down a little, and then it gets wide again. Does that help?

[32:51]

Yeah. talk about that experience you know for you so the experience of that spiral as just like so if you were to reflect on that spiral in your summer others you'd say well you know I don't know if there's any way you could pack it or unpack it a little um well I think its quality is um a growing sense of peace. I don't understand why it works that way, and yet a lot of people say it does work that way. In 12-step, they call it serenity. And I haven't done very much 12-step stuff, but that model was very helpful to me in my Buddhist practice. But that... sense of serenity where does that come from how do we develop that it's not something magic you know it's and it's not mundane it's it's this effort that we make and this curiosity that we have in this ability to listen to ourselves and to everything that's happening around us as much as we can and we can't sometimes and we and of course we keep making mistakes and everything else but but remembering that feeling and

[34:17]

So would it be okay if I read the poem one more time and then we say goodnight? I didn't know the taste of sadness in my youth. I loved to climb towers. I loved to climb towers. And in my poems I forced myself to speak of sadness. Knowing the taste of sadness now too well, I start to speak of it, but stop. I start to speak of it, but stop. And say instead, what a chilly autumn day. Thank you very much. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma Talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click Giving.

[35:26]

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