This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good morning. I wanted people to know that the Anja was called away for a family... a death in the family, impending death in the family of her grandfather. So she has gone to her home, her parents. I wish for all of us to be as grounded as we can be in this sesheen and turning the light inward to not manage our pain.

[01:15]

I think managing pain really can cause more pain. Often to manage our pain we do things that are even more painful. in the interest of managing our pain. Nor do I want us to avoid our pain, but to sit right in the middle of it and allow our life to just be our life, whatever it is. The storms within are the main storms that I'd like us to be focusing on and attending to. And I hear about the storms of hate and the storms of ill will, the storms of greed. There's plenty of storms within that we need to attend to.

[02:21]

In a traditional monastery, the Rokachichi doesn't sit in the Zendo. They have their seats, the eight seats, outside because they're often called away to do things and take care of things, which happens all the time. As you know, this town can be empty. And that is for our sake, you know, that people have responsibilities to help take care of the Sangha and the monastery. So let's each of us attend completely to what is for us our work and settle, settle, settle. wanted to take up where we left off with the Buddhist story, this teaching story, and bring it into our story, our practice story, our practice life, and then to hear anything that you want to bring up as well.

[03:51]

In the story from the Maha Sarvastavada, Mula Sarvastavada, Vinaya, the night of the departure I mentioned Siddhartha and Yasodhara making love and I just wanted to say as you know this story has particular characters particular archetypal figures, you might say. But the meaning, because this is a teaching story, this is our story as well. And what does, what do we, what kind of union is necessary for us to bring forth new birth in our own lives? I think for me the meaning of union is not necessarily

[04:58]

heterosexual, binary, male, female. That's not, to me, that's not what the story is talking about. Or on one level, that's what it is. And on a deeper level, as a teaching story, what needs to unite for new birth? And some of our teachings that include union of compassion and wisdom is necessary for skill and means actually skill and means as the manifested in each moment new birth but without wisdom it's basic cleverness maybe without compassion with wisdom not linked not interpenetrated by

[06:01]

compassion, wisdom by itself can be cruel. The wisdom of no abiding self or emptiness teachings and it has to have compassion and compassion without wisdom can fall into sentimentality, pity, feeling sorry for people rather than the appropriate response coming from wisdom infused with wisdom, and these together in union with skill and means. So in terms of the teaching story, if this were a dream, if this teaching story were a dream, you know, which it is, a kind of dream, our dream of our path, what needs to come together, what needs to come together for each one of us in a union. So as we left off, Siddhartha and Chana, his charioteer, actually the charioteer, when they went out into the village, into the Kapilavastu, and saw the four messengers, the horse named Kantaka was pulling the chariot.

[07:33]

Kantaka was Siddhartha's favorite horse that he took with him when he was doing competition with horsemanship and different things. It was his horse. They were his favorite horse. And after those four messengers, when the Buddha returned to his regular life, he was very subdued. I don't know about despondent or depressed. I think it was mostly very solemn. serious about his life and all the usual things did not interest him. The usual activities, the usual pastimes, games, music, hanging out with various people in various ways did not interest him. There was nothing that, and after about a week or more of that, that's when he decided he had to, he had to go.

[08:37]

and that's this renunciation and the great departure. And at this point Chana saddled Kantaka, he pulled the chariot to carry Siddhartha out with muffled hooves. And they got to a river and Kantaka was said to have leaped over the river to bring Siddhartha to the other side. And then when it was time to leave, to take leave of both Chana and Kandaka, Chana didn't want to go, didn't want to leave Siddhartha, and Kandaka didn't either, but he was compelled to by Siddhartha to leave. He needed to go alone. He needed to go on his way alone. So Chana and Kandaka returned, and it's said in the story that

[09:38]

Kandaka died of a broken heart and was reborn in the story as a Brahmin who came to listen later to the Buddhist Dharma talks and became an arhat, I think. So all turned out well with Kandaka. Very close relationship there as there often is with our animal friends, our animal companions. So there was Siddhartha outside his usual supported realm and he begged and was a mendicant and went searching for a teacher and he found two different teachers that were hermit hermits, hermit monks, not monks, hermit teachers, hermit ascetics, hermit religious people who taught yogic meditation methods.

[10:48]

And the Buddha, the first one was named Alara Kalama. And this, whatever the meditation practices that he taught, Siddhartha very easily understood the instructions and was able to practice with him and became equal to his teacher and could do whatever these practices were. The name of the practice was a practice called Base of Nothingness, a kind of shamanic, a jhana, excuse me, a jhana kind of a state. And he equaled his teacher pretty soon, not too long, and his teacher asked him, would you be my successor? Would you succeed me, stay with me, and teach students, you know, carry on my teaching?

[11:49]

But the Siddhartha was not satisfied when these states of mind ended. There was still the suffering, there was still old age sickness and death, nothing really changed even though these strong states of concentration were wholesome, wholesome states. Still it didn't get to the base of the suffering that he experienced and had seen. So he left Alara Kalama and went looking for another teacher and found the next teacher was a Jain, J-A-I-N, hermit, who also practiced yogic meditative states and practices. And this teacher's name was Uddhaka Ramaputta. And the Buddha Siddhartha practiced with this teacher, hermit, and achieved whatever this teacher had to teach.

[13:00]

The Buddha was able to absorb it, practice it, and soon, relatively soon, was able to equal what that teacher had to offer and the teacher had no more to teach him. He had come to the same level of understanding as Udhaka Ramaputta. And this teacher also said, would you stay here? Would you continue my teaching and be my successor and teach this method to students? And Siddhartha realized he wasn't at peace. His mind was not at rest, even with these very accomplished kind of meditative states. It didn't get to the heart of his unrest and dis-ease and suffering.

[14:05]

There wasn't peace, lasting peace. So he left this teacher as well. So after this, and I want to get back to hermit practice a little later when I comment on this. teaching story. After this, the Buddha found the five practitioners who had actually, in one rendition, were sent by King Suddhodana to follow after the Buddha, make sure he was, excuse me, Siddhartha, to make sure he was okay. They were people he knew. Kaudinya was one of them. Kaudinya is famous in terms of these five practitioners that the Buddha, companions the Buddha practiced with. Kaudinya had been a scholar, a Brahmin scholar in his father's household working for King Suddhodana and was accomplished and the king had asked him, go and practice with Siddhartha, make sure all is well.

[15:17]

So he found these five companions who were wandering and they all decided together to take up ascetic practices. So these other practices, the main path was not asceticism per se, it was these meditative yogic states. But when Siddhartha met up with the five, they decided together to practice austerities and asceticism. The word ascetic means training. But these are very particular kinds of trainings that other religious practices, other religions have as well, a kind of branch sometimes that goes into ascetic practices. And the five took these up together. For six years, they practiced these ascetic practices, which were in the society, there were other wandering ascetics.

[16:26]

who practice, and if you've been to India, which I never have, but I've seen pictures and maybe some of you have seen wandering sadhus, I think, religious people who are doing very austere practices like raising your hand in the air and not putting it down for years, you know, where it gets frozen in that position or never lying down to sleep. These are different practices that you, I'm sure, have heard about. So they took these up and there were things like not eating very much at all. It was said the Buddha had different accounts, but you know, a few spoonfuls of rice a day or a spoonful of soup or a sesame seed a day, you know, extreme austerities. And you've seen probably the the sculptures of the Buddha as the ascetic, who's basically like a skeleton sitting in lotus with more than gone, total skeleton-like, with sunken.

[17:41]

It's been rendered in these sculptures and probably paintings as well. The idea was to abstain from worldly pleasures, comforts, the usual comforts of daily life and go to an extreme of refraining from these pleasures and as a way to probably in a kind of dualistic way I would say treat the body in this way to somehow free the mind or free the spirit to be free from this skin bag as we hear it sometimes called. So there was some, the spiritual endeavor to find peace, you know, inner peace was, these were used in this way and to cut off desires in any way they might manifest.

[18:51]

and I think also not bathing, probably not sleeping very much, and these kinds of austerities. I want to leave the story there and take it up tomorrow with what happens with Siddhartha in this practice, but for a long time, six years practicing in this way, feels to me like a long time And the teaching story, of course, shows the two maybe extremes that Siddhartha underwent. One is the extreme of maybe a kind of deva realm, a kind of heavenly realm of having everything materially, any kind of pleasure, sensual pleasure. to the max, you know, that's one extreme.

[19:52]

And that didn't bring peace, inner peace and satisfaction and relief of suffering. He found out that wasn't the way and let go of that. And then the other extreme is some kind of asceticism, austerities, restraint to us. you know, extreme. So these are the ends and the ends are actually close if you were to kind of imagine it in terms of being extreme. And the difficulty is middle way which is what the Buddha ends up with which as we know our practice is middle way. So You know, someone might say, you know, what's the problem with austerities or reasonable austerities?

[20:55]

And I don't think there's a problem with reasonable refraining from things. The problem is the tendency to go too far. And in the early Buddhist Sangha, students would come to the Buddha and ask to do extra stuff you know things that he didn't have as what he was offering as a way of life to the ordained Sangha who were living you know came together in community and also lived on their own they wanted certain things that he rejected and said no that's that's too extreme and later some of those were actually incorporated into regular community life part of the reason when certain people are doing a practice that's over and above what other people are doing or not offered to others or unable to be done for various reasons, there can be a kind of schism in the sangha.

[22:05]

And also if it's far beyond or outside of social norms like not bathing forever, I think it may be hard for people to come and listen to your teaching, you know, because they don't want you to come into their house, for example. So things that are far outside of social norms is not middle way and was discouraged. And also this thing about schism in the sangha, which I wanted to say something more about, So when I first came to Zen Center, kind of upon to stay, which was January 1st, 1971, the director was Rev. Anderson, and I remember there was the schedule, morning sitting, afternoon, evening sittings I think sometimes, and I said to him, what about sitting more?

[23:11]

Can I sit more? Like right off the bat, you know, I just walked in the door, who knows if I could I didn't even know if I could follow the regular schedule, but I wanted to sit more, you know. And he said, the gist of it was, why don't you just follow the schedule? Just follow the schedule. And that seemed like, well, that's sort of mundane. I want to do, like, extra, you know, I want to be like the Zazen queen of Page State or something, you know. But later, you know, I appreciated what he said, which was just follow the schedule. He was an older student. He had been there four years, you know, been to Tassara. So he knew. So that may have happened for you too. I want to sit more or I want to... What are the things that usually happens in terms of our Sangha life?

[24:18]

Eating less, that's a big one. Eating less, sitting more. There was one practice period that's famous where a group, I think it was three people, Jack Elias and I can't remember who the three were, who decided they would wear less ascetic practice and they would only wear under their robe a t-shirt. Do you know this story? Some of you do. you know, just a regular white t-shirt under their robe. That would be the only thing that they would wear. And it started out fine in the fall. They were doing great. Other people were adding layers. Not them, no. Total aesthetic austerity thing. And it began to get colder and colder. And they had this pact, you know. We're just wearing t-shirts, right? and it got colder and they were not doing well until one morning they just refused to get out of their sleeping bags and would not come to the Zendo.

[25:28]

It was like the Tenkin knocking on the door, leave me, go away, you know. So, you know, this is the problem with the extremes. This is the problem with asceticism, I think, and austerities and doing something different you know, setting oneself apart as practicing more harder than others. There's often, it constellates, I would say, the opposite. The opposite gets constellated. Sooner or later, you know. And we know this from all sorts of things that we've tried. Dieting is a big one, you know. deprivation, deprivation, cottage cheese and grapefruit, deprivation, deprivation, until finally it's like, I'm going to eat what I want to, let me at it, you know. In fact I was just with someone not too long ago who had been following this very difficult regime, eating regime, and I actually heard this person say,

[26:42]

at a buffet. I'm gonna eat whatever I want, so they're kind of like, I'll show them, whoever the them is. It constellates the opposite because I think constitutionally we're really not, we're built for the middle way, you know. We thrive in middle way. It's not very exciting. You know, it's kind of plain. maybe boring, you know, eating just enough, just enough. I want the excitement of starving myself, you know, or something like that, or whatever comes along with that. I think there's all sorts of emotional and praising self at the expense of others happens, a kind of I'm can take in other people can't there's this thing that happens when we take on almost anything that will set us set us apart you know by virtue of our stronger harder practice that's not offered to others that's not part of please everybody avail yourself of this

[28:10]

And then, you know, like night sitting, for example, someone can sit all night if they feel they have the energy and the interest. But night sitting is available to anyone. Anyone can try to experience that and practice that way rather than I'm only going, I'm just me. You know, this sets up all sorts of subtle and not so subtle disparities and comparative thinking, competition, endurance contests, and it's not like students are like milk and water. It's oil and water or something where I'm floating on top, you know. So I'd like each of us to reflect on this

[29:13]

And even the most subtle kinds of things, if there's deprivation, our practice is not depriving ourselves of anything. It's opening into a new way of being that is steady and upright where we can really thrive, like really thrive. And if we're dabbling even with I think we have to dabble to be able, we have to fall on either side a little bit maybe to come back to upright, to really know thoroughly that this is how I thrive. So maybe we do dabble. And maybe we don't know what just right, what's just enough yet, because we're so used to too much or too little. So we can test. I'm going to try one scoop or two scoops or seconds or not seconds.

[30:19]

But if we make for ourselves based on some idea of special practice that's my practice alone that I create, I don't think it holds. is not conducive to long-lasting settledness. One of the first sessions I sat in the city, someone decided on their own to fast without telling anybody for the entire session, but do the session completely. And nobody noticed that they weren't, or maybe one serving crew noticed this person doesn't take food that meal but no one let a practice leader know or anything and what happened was they a kind of I don't know what to call it snapped or had a decompensation no they decompensated in some way and

[31:34]

got up during a period of zazen and got the kiyosaku, the stick, which we were carrying, and went over and hit their roommate with the stick. And they kind of had a break, actually, some kind of psychotic break during the seshin. And it was very sad. It was a sweet person who created a standard of their own, with, you know, unilaterally and kind of went off the end, you know. That, I think, really informed people, you know, to say, actually, in orientations for people who've only begun to sit, often we say, eat, our practice is to eat, receive what's offered, you know, someone, because someone might, oh, the opposite of that. or similar to that is someone who said they were doing seshin so that they could lose five pounds, she told me.

[32:38]

It was like her diet regime, which seemed like a sad, a sad reason to sit seshin, actually, if that was what it was all about. That was at Tassajara when I was ino. Someone told me that that was, I mean, they had to sit the seshin, but that was kind of their purpose, you know. So these are, things that happen, things we conjure up. And I'd like us all to look at any way in which we're doing this in small or big ways and the way in which it separates us from each other. Even in our own minds, maybe nobody else is even noticing, but we notice and we're maybe caught in my practice is harder than others. And then there'll be resentment.

[33:41]

I don't want to say I guarantee it, but if we're caught in that, there's resentment enmeshed in it. So anything that we do that creates schisms, schism is a big word like big breaks but even you know as best we can to have all do pretty much as best we can pretty much the same practice given our ages and physical abilities and injuries and karmic consciousness but still as best we can and and and within that We make all sorts of accommodations coming from not trying to have a harder practice, but this meets my situation, my particular situation. So all of this, what I'm bringing up is maybe not news to you or

[34:55]

The harder practice, the real hard practice is continuing our practice when there's no pyrotechnics and no big giant experiences and fireworks and where it's just everydayness. And many people stop practicing when the fireworks ends, you know. So middle way. too exciting and not too austere, not too anything, which comes back to our practice period long looking at skill in means. This is, you could say, a skillful way. to live our lives. The chapter, the verses that we've been reading are going over and over the different ways that the Buddha offered skill and means and the first way that upaya or skill and means was used in the earliest

[36:27]

canon was really the Buddha's, actually the word upaya was not used that much hardly at all, but the actions that expressed and manifested skill and means were definitely there, which was the Buddha, whenever he was teaching, whoever he was teaching, the teaching was customized for that particular crowd, that particular assembly, There's a story that there were Brahmins, different religious groups at the time, Brahmins came to talk with him about uniting with Brahma, and he taught what became the Brahma Viharas. But it was taught to Brahmins about what they were interested in, but he turned it in a skillful way to the practices of compassion, loving kindness, sympathetic joy, equanimity.

[37:28]

And when laymen and women came to the assembly to ask, often the teaching would be about what was important to them, their family life, and leading ethical practices in right livelihood, these kinds of things. So whoever was the audience, the teaching, met them. So sometimes it looks like contradictions, but who was he speaking to? So that's like the oldest understanding of skill and means. And I think unless someone is practicing that way from the Dharma seat, people can't hear what you're saying. I remember after a kid's talk once, The speaker, I think they knew it was gonna be a kid's talk at Green Gulch, but it wasn't really geared for the age group of the kids who come as really little ones, like toddlers, and maybe the oldest kid is seven or so.

[38:46]

I think when they get to be around seven or eight, they stop coming or aren't so interested, but the little ones come, and they're sitting there all eager to hear, and the person used word, big words, and afterwards I heard this little boy say to his mother, I don't think he knows how to talk to kids. Which, you know, this is like, the oldest understanding is, who is your audience, you know, and do they understand, you know, that word you just used. So, and this happens, you know, summer at Tassajara when we have, it's a very mixed group of of summer guests, maybe you've never come to a Dharma talk, and students who've been in practice period, and same with Sunday talk at Green Gulch. How do you bring what you want to bring up? And also here, there are people who are here, they wouldn't choose to teach, be taught by a particular person, me for example, but that's who's leading the practice period, you know?

[39:54]

monastic life and sangha life is, as I've said, you know, compelling and wonderful enough that it's okay, whoever comes, but you can't necessarily understand what they're talking about or are interested. And I think some teachers have decided it's too difficult, actually, to teach to that kind of a mixed group who don't really want to be there to hear what you have to say. The energy doesn't work. So sometimes a teacher will really, do you want me to teach? Because I'm going to be teaching. And if you don't, then maybe this isn't the right practice period for you. So that's the kind of oldest understanding of what skillful means is, and kind of unnamed, I think. To call it skillful means is anachronistic, really, because that wasn't really used in old. in the old wisdom school. The Lotus Sutra, which is later, has a very particular use of skillful means or upaya, hoban, in chapter two.

[41:06]

And it's, I think, includes the oldest understanding where the Buddha understands people's sufferings, understands their desires, understands thoroughly who the audience is, but then the additional thing in Lotus Sutra is that it takes the whole old wisdom school itself and arhatship and the practices for shravakas and nirvana itself these teachings themselves and says these were skillful means you know these were ways of transmitting the teaching at this time that were not the full you know, the full understanding. They were ways to meet. So it's a slightly different, and in the Lotus, as we know, the word is used over and over and over in our, as we're reading the verses, you know, these are the different skillful means.

[42:14]

And also listing stories, parables, anecdotes, it doesn't say anecdotes. tales of past lives, all these different ways, these are also skillful means. So the lotus is talking about the Buddha's trying to express something that's unexpressible, that nobody can express, and so skillfully he tries, and tried in these ways, but they weren't the ultimate vehicles. They were provisional. So that's Lotus's, you know, main kind of new, you might say new thing. So the shift after that comes to taking not just ways of transmitting the teaching skillfully that can be heard

[43:28]

and help people continue to practice and open to, you know, demonstrate, open, enter and realize Buddha's way, all the possible ways. But it also became bodhisattvas' actions. The way bodhisattvas are in the world is skillful means, which is, it includes all the other things. It includes all these teaching ways and provisional teachings and also then everything a bodhisattva does becomes skill and means. That's a kind of further broadening of skill and means. And sometimes, you know, we hear about crazy wisdom, you know, these teachings where things happen that are unusual or startling, and this was skillful means to help people to wake up or to open to the teaching or to demonstrate and enter and realize the teaching.

[44:38]

So anything, you know, can be called skillful means that a bodhisattva might do. Repertoire is endless. So that goes further than kind of the original, you know, those original meanings. And I think the last is where that goes even further, where, and there's a sutra called the upaya kaushayala, skill and means, kushala maybe, kaushalaya, good skill and means, because skill and means connotes goodness, good things, but in that sutra there's all sorts of things that the Bodhisattva does to that are called skill and means that go as far as you can go in terms of breaking, not observing precepts and breaking the norms, the traditional norms of activity and behavior.

[45:44]

And it's in that sutra, which is quoted a lot, where the bodhisattva is the captain of the ship and realizes someone is on the ship who's going to murder the entire crew and so Out of skill and means it's as he murders this person. Or maybe it's the captain himself who's the murderer. Anyway, it's somebody on the ship. And that's the bodhisattva knowingly and willingly transgresses but to save everybody else. So this is where even killing and misusing sexuality and stealing and lying and anything, really anything goes but particular. mention is made of those things that are outside the usual understanding of conduct and traditional upright activity, that one do nothing that is mean or that the wise would reprove.

[46:46]

And I think that sutra actually there's a, I think, a kind of proviso or warning, kind of, what's that called, in the beginning of something, caveat that this should not be, you know, widely disseminated, this particular sutra, to people who are not on a certain stage of bodhisattvahood or something because it could be misconstrued, misused, used as a kind of skill and means, as a kind of get-out-of-jail-free card. Oh, that was skill and means, you know, that action that was you know, beyond the pale, let's say, in our usual understanding, oh, that was get out of jail free cards from Monopoly game. For those of you who don't know that reference, you pick this card and if you land in jail, you get out free without paying a fee or losing your turn.

[47:52]

So it's kind of like that, oh, that was skill and means, whatever I did. And I think that has been used to some degree for certain actions that were, I would say, gratifying to the person and the person for whom it was done to, let's say, it was like it was for their own good, you know, it was kind of patronizing this was for their enlightenment, you know, this was for their you know, moving along on the path or something. I kind of, that was their skillful means. When actually, if you look carefully enough or deeply enough, it was for one's, gratifying one's needs. So this is, this last way where it's skill and means, anything goes, and you can't question me because it was skill and means, is a very

[49:02]

you know, in terms of our ethical conduct and precept study, this is something to be aware of and it's slippery there. And I think, you know, I have a sense of cautionary, you know, this is if someone has been steeped in the precepts and observing the precepts and ethical conduct and Bodhisattva practices generosity and ethics and patience and the perfections and something like that happens and it's flowing from a deep understanding of wisdom joined with compassion and skill and means. But it's... not something casual.

[50:06]

So the Buddha, we're going to find out, and as you already know, chose middle way. And I think middle way and skillful means are inter, are together. So in terms of our, I'm going to open it to questions in one moment, but in terms of our Sashin practice, you know this is called the repose and bliss, the comfortable practice. This is, I would not call this austerity. This is healthy and as we know, you know, the way we can be, feel like we're thriving in the sense of well-being and calm and composure and joy.

[51:27]

And there is pain. And as I said, we're not trying to manage our pain and sort of get through or avoid it altogether. We're trying to find our way to meet our life with calm. And the admonition of don't move, you know, what do you mean don't move when everything's changing? and everything's impermanent, of course we're moving. And yes, exactly, in a world like that, in a world of impermanence, our practice is don't move. Don't move. And don't move means when you move, stay right with moving. Don't move from whatever it is you're doing, single-mindedly.

[52:28]

So maybe that's all I'll say today, and what would you like to bring up? And I also wanted to mention, this is the end of the, coming to the end of the practice period, and if you haven't asked a question, the whole practice period in lecture or class or, you might see if there's a question you'd like to have your voice come into the room. That might be wonderful for all of us. This is kind of a strange question. But, you know, I've heard one story where a bodicep sacrificed himself to a lion, I think, a hungry tiger.

[53:47]

Hungry tiger, yes. And I'm wondering if there are other stories of bodhisattvas either being killed or, you know, some kind of, like, as a spiritual needs, like a self-sacrifice sort of thing. Like, you know, saints. Yeah, yeah. There probably are lots of them. The Jataka tales have the stories of when the Buddha was a bodhisattva and there's one where, well the story of the rabbit, you know, when the rabbit throws himself into the fire, you know, because he had nothing to give so he gave his whole body. There's that story. Well, the act itself is what's the most important thing, I think, that selflessly he did that.

[54:59]

And because of that, he was put up in the moon and saved, you know. But I think, you know, there's a real-life story of a bodhisattva. Maybe you know this story of the little boy and his sister. Do you know this story? Some of you might know it. This is... true story there was a little girl who had I think leukemia and needed like a full blood transfusion and the right type of blood and her brother her little brother had the right blood type and so I think his parents said asked him would he like to donate to his sister, for her sister. And he said, let me think about it, I think it was like eight, went to his bedroom for a while, thought about it, came back and said yes, he would.

[56:02]

So the time came to go to the hospital, and I think they had it set up with the IV and the whole thing, and he's lying there, and they're taking the blood, and he whispers to the doctor, when will I die? will be soon." And the doctor said, you're not going to die? So he had misunderstood, but he was willing for his sister to offer his life to his sister. So this This is how human beings are, actually. I think this happens, this kind of thing. story once at the beginning of this book about the Dalai Lama on the paranormal truths and I think it was the story was involved Shariputra and Manjushri and Shariputra was about to give a discourse to a large audience and Manjushri pops up and gives them teachings on emptiness teachings on emptiness uh-huh

[57:51]

I don't remember what words they used, crazy, or they kind of go out the deep end and they disperse, and Shadokutra goes back to the Buddha and says, hey, you know, I was going to teach them about performing the truth or something, and Manjushri does this, and like, how do we know? I mean, the underlying question is, how do we know what is skillful means? the Buddha in that situation could somehow look into the future and go, oh, well, in this case, this was the shortest path and it was skillful means. The Buddha said it really was skillful means. It was, but in terms of our lives, our practice, I think you talked about this a little bit, but how do we know what to trust as skillful means when we're trying to help others? Yes. This is a recurring theme. Did everybody hear that question? Did you hear? Yeah. which came up in class, you know, is it skillful means if the outcome wasn't what we had hoped.

[59:00]

And I think there's a little tussle around that, like I think it can be compassion, it can be offering a compassionate mind, but it may not have been skillful enough, let's say. in our daily lives to know in a wide way you know what we have a do we have a feel for what's what's going do we have the zeitgeist you know or the pulse on what's going on for people right now sometimes people come and they've got a prepared thing and they wrote it last year you know and they kind of read and but meanwhile something just happened in the world or with that particular group. So if we don't include that, so in the widest way possible, who am I speaking to or with?

[60:01]

Who am I practicing with? What's going on? And that means opening to not just our own concerns, but what's happening for others. And there's also a kind of, what I've found and you've probably found too, sharing of energy you know if you're missing you can recalibrate you know kind of almost in the middle because it's falling on dead ears you know or you can or you can ask you know but the guarantee I don't think there's a guarantee you know and which is why we have to remain humble you know and why I'm glad this isn't like a brocaded dais with golden lamps or something. You know, it's just a nice plain cloth thing and just a little bit higher so people can see each other. Not higher, it's the same levels, you know, that feeling.

[61:08]

In fact, one teacher got down off here and sat on the floor talking about a particular koan. cutting the cat in two, because you have to be really grounded and humble if you're going to talk about such things. So if we're humble, and humble in the best sense of the word, you know, not eating humble pie, that's kind of humiliation or something, but earth, down to earth, and not over-rating ourselves or something, or over, you know, just simple.

[62:14]

Yeah. You spoke recently about simple life, that simple life allows us to observe and way that's really special. And I feel that so deeply about Tessahara. But that's what exists here in this valley. When I think about returning or arriving back in San Francisco, and I think about a simple life I feel despairing, and I feel like, how do I have that work? How do I find that simple life that I experience here in my everyday life in San Francisco?

[63:23]

Did you hear Patty? Tassahara is Tassahara, and you won't find the simple life here. But the Marisha that loves a simple life, that has tasted that, has drunk deep, will make decisions and create a simple life according to those circumstances. Because you have a feel for it. I have a trusting kind of sense of that. However, it is powerful. The distractibility quotient is high and strong. So we have to be aware of that and craft something. It's the art of living, you might say. It's crafting middle way, simple,

[64:26]

life that doesn't mean deprivation like I don't go to the opera or something no you go to the opera with friends if if you like that sort of thing but that's in the context of not running all over day after day after day you you do the things that nourish you deeply with the people who nourish you deeply and include your formal practice i think it's when the formal practice gets jettisoned as if that's extra or i can't seem to get to it i can't get up early because i've been out so late you know that kind of then we begin to get topsy-turvy kind of and and things don't stay simple but as long as you're continuing your formal practice meaning sitting and But according to city center, if you're going to live there or if you're going to live in your own place, you have to craft it with love and wisdom.

[65:40]

And also put in, this is something I often say to people, when you're doing your year calendar, put in the sesheins first that you're going to do. Get those in, okay. Alright, now what else? Where am I going to go on vacation? Or maybe my vacation will be, but include that. I'll help you. Hindi. I want to acknowledge this is how I feel, not necessarily what they thought of. There's a pinch of arrogance in that this is Mahayana includes the other schools.

[66:51]

So that's one. that is, I'm guessing, I'm pretty sure that that's not the intention to be guilted on your senses like that. So how do we practice to sort of remind ourselves not to get caught in that? You talk a lot about being humble. I wonder if you have any practice Just keep reminding ourselves. Because we can think about it. It's like, no, no, no, it's not, you know, we're better than them. But that's sort of just heavy. Yes, yes. Go ahead. A little bit more. Yeah. In the Lotus Sutra, in Mahayana Sutra, I'm guessing that what's known at that time was this different school of Buddhism or maybe other religion in India.

[67:53]

Now we live in a more global... interconnectedness, there are many other traditions and many other religions. And again, the same question, how do we not get caught up in thinking this is the right way, this is, you know, this is, the other religions are just the smaller, you know, come to this way, you know. So, yeah. Yes, thank you for bringing that up. I think that's a big pitfall, what you say. I think everybody wants the best team. It's like the Giants won the World Series three times. We're from San Francisco. That means we're the best. It's like this way we kind of conflate things. This is a tendency, I think, maybe part of praising self at the expense of others in terms of precepts where we're better than. I mean, it's a named, one of the named major grave precepts, you know.

[68:56]

So this tendency is very deep. I think the Lotus Sutra, there was... One of the beautiful things about the Lotus Sutra is that it attempts to say we're all one, you know. We're all one team. We're all... all just practicing to be awake you know and the Lotus historically was not trying to raise one against the other but say we're all in this together it's just different ways so that's why this is seen as a kind of maybe that's why it's called the king of the sutras or the queen of the sutras or why it became so popular because it has this core of it is not secretary and it's not we're better than you haha we've got the real deal you don't that's that's one of the thrusts of it that was a little different than some other things you can read some other sutras where they make fun of and put down actually so to see that tendency in ourselves and also you know it it goes you know like our temple

[70:15]

It's better than your temple. In San Francisco Zen Center, it's like, well, Tassajara is best. I mean, it's so deep, so deep. Or the Spirit Rock Zen Center non-existent competition or something. We tend to create that in our minds. And if we can come back to all these different ways, all these skillful ways of people waking up and coming to relief of suffering and peace in their lives and compassion for others and serving others. It doesn't matter, you know, what outfit they wear or what, you know, that's not, it really doesn't matter. And to be so clear about that, then it's just celebration, you know. So that's one thing about the lotus. But to watch that tendency in ourselves and sometimes it's fun like dishwashing crews and we're faster than you or something but we could do it for fun or soccer teams or something however as we know some of the worst long-lasting wars in our in human history are about religious you know are between religious

[71:40]

different religions. It's heartbreaking. It's so sad. And in some of those situations all go back to the same founding fathers, kind of, or founding teachers. So to recognize this tendency and to abjure, gee, I've never used that word before, abjure it, to say, I'm not going to go there. I get it. I see the tendency, but I'm going to renounce that way of thinking. Anyway, that's, yeah. But you can find it in sutras. You can find the put down. Yeah. Lauren? So one of the things I feel like I work on a lot is not talking about people. Yes. some of that is like not freezing stuff at the expense of others.

[72:47]

So some of the things you've already said apply and humility and things like that. But one thing I've noticed when this is most difficult is when I leave the temple, you know, even though there's plenty of talking about people that goes on and hung all the temples, I feel like there is a shared idea that we're trying not to. But outside, I feel like a time people revel in talking about other people and commenting on how they're doing such a bad job of this, or they're such a mess, you know, and there's the task of how do I not get involved in doing that myself? But then also, what do you do? Because you can just sit there and not say anything at all, and then you kind of have that look about you of, like, you're too good for this conversation. Yes. of this situation that may come up?

[73:52]

Well, what you say is true that within the Sangha community there's a kind of shared knowing like we're kind of doing, we're kind of going off here a little bit and people, I remember Rusa and I once in the sauna at the Dolphin Club started talking about somebody who got involved with somebody and we just like went at it you know we're like how could she oh my god and then we sort of realized and then we started chanting all my ancient twisted in the sauna so that that's within the temple and then outside of the temple this is another personal story and then when I was taking care of Nancy Wilson Ross who those of you who don't know is was an author who lived on the East Coast, and we sent people to take care of her when she was 77 years old, which I thought was ancient beyond ancient. I turned 30 when I was living there. Anyway, she was a great one for talking about everybody with wit, and she was so funny.

[74:58]

But she was talking about teachers that I knew and loved, and while I was in a boat paddling, I was in the bow, And she was behind me going on and on about various beloved teachers. And I don't know what my posture was like, but she said, and what about you, little Miss Bodhisattva? How about you? What do you think? You're not saying anything, little Miss Bodhisattva? And I knew that I was emanating, like, I don't talk about people, and you do, and praise yourself. and she just nailed me you know because it was exactly so yeah you don't want to be the one who I don't speak and because I'm above that at the same time you don't want to totally join in because that feels not so good so what's my practice now I think it's sometimes I try to talk about the good qualities of somebody which aren't really so interesting but I'll I'll bring up you know something so that kind of turns the conversation or I don't add or I might try to either turn the conversation away from putting somebody down to how it is that they're having so much trouble you know like a wider discussion so that those are some of the things I do but you're right it is one of the favorite pastimes

[76:24]

friends and family and TV I think does you know and it's all over right and we get as I remember with Rusa you get one gets I got very very energized by it and if people are funny if they have a certain wit as sarcasm sarcasm the root of the word means to bite flesh sarcasm so sometimes you know sarcasm is has a meanness to it but it can also be very funny right so we there's a lot of energy there and but I think the main thing is we like to feel connected and energized with our folks with our with our cohort that's what we love sitting around the kitchen table or whatever it's that energy thing between people and laughing and all And if it's at the expense of another person, really what's the most fun is sitting around laughing.

[77:29]

So how do we turn that so it maybe isn't hurting? Yeah. So I wish you luck. You've got the holidays in front of you. Yeah. go back to the palace and live, you know, feasting and partying and things like that. The middle way for him or his followers or other great ancestors was not starving himself, but it also wasn't the way we live. You know, so there was this Relativity about that. What middle way is different for?

[78:29]

Yeah, and this Americanized version, especially here in California, seems to be very, we're a very rich country and we have all these abundant lifestyles that, putting it mildly, and say we're adapting Buddhism to America and these American lifestyles, kind of distorts something for me. Because on the extreme of starving oneself or nearly dying or whatever, I understand is not the way. And the other of being in the palace and having harems and feasting and intoxication or whatever, isn't it either, but that middle way moves based on what culture you're in.

[79:34]

And it seems like it's about taking care of the body, taking care of your health, intending to live a long time and serve, rather than destroying yourself for the sake of practice. And I find myself here after three years at Zen Center eating about three times as much as I used to, gaining about 15 pounds, not getting enough sleep and having some neurological or having some symptoms that are coming up because of exhaustion and finding that I need to really discipline myself because it's hard enough.

[80:45]

We're a herd. We have this herd energy about doing frenzies. You know what I mean? It's very hard to discipline yourself in the midst of all of us doing the same thing together the same way. To discipline myself to refrain from what to me for this body is excess. It's not enough food, but it's too much food for my health. And I don't want to make myself special, but I want to take care of this body that has some slightly different needs, and the middle way is different for me. What do I do? Yes. Well, I think you're right. Middle way is middle way for you, and middle way for a 25-year-old may be different. And whether you call it... It's the mealtime, there's mealtime, or you call it a food frenzy, has to do with one's own view, you know. There is time on the schedule for a meal, you know. So, you know, this question of am I thriving? Is my well-being at jeopardy by this particular situation?

[81:49]

container one has to decide people have decided this because of health reasons this is not working for me and that's not a this is not the only practice container as we know this is a particular practice container and we have to answer that question am i thriving you know and and or what accommodations or whatever. But you're right. We are influenced by one another in terms of what people are doing. If there's socializing going on or a wonderful meal happening, we're influenced by the people around us. And that will always be so. The sutras even talk about it. If you take an incense stick and wrap it in a dead fish, it will smell like a dead fish.

[82:52]

If you wrap it in a palm leaf, the palm leaf will smell like incense. So who we're associating with and what our container is will affect us. So we have to be clear, and it may mean, as it has in the past at a certain point, people have said it's time to go. Or maybe it's not quite time to go, but your point about the extremes you're not interested in, and then what's middle way for you? And, you know, finding in this culture, when I say this culture, that's so general. Many people have abundance and access to abundance. Many people don't. How do we practice, like the Buddha, when there's access to abundance?

[83:56]

How do we find our way? That's my question, exactly. To be in touch with those needs that are different and still not set myself apart. Yes. Right. The well-being of this being. Yeah. To not set myself apart, that's a very sensitive dance. It is. It is. Well, maybe it's time to end. What do you say? Is it time? It is 5 to 11. If we end now, zazen would be? 11.15 zazen and then service at?

[85:05]

11.50. Okay. Could we have one period of zazen with a, just a one period? Thank you very much.

[85:38]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_83.51